“India should give respect to Pakistan as it has an atom bomb": Mani Shankar Aiyar

[uppercut]

Before Bhutto became Prime Minister, it seemed that the Pakistani establishment was willing to split the country into two separate nations if it meant retaining control over the rest. This marked the beginning of Pakistan's decline, as maintaining power required controlling the narrative, which was easier in those days due to the absence of social media.

You completely side stepped my question in post#156 read it again and see if you can answer it. If not then say so.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Your history is coloured by saffron lens, and your future will also remain so because you can't see much beyond the Mahanharata. I don't think there is anything wrong with this per se, hindutva is an understandable reaction to most people's perception of a more submissive religion. But as a country I think the politicians have to have a more wider regional vision.

Yes all 4 wars were fought because of saffron lenses. Your half truths hold no water.

Pakistan even today supports a violent secessionist movement in India. There cannot be a better reason to dial down bilateral ties.

If by submissive you mean Hindus are not caught orchestrating terrorist attacks and killing people, i am very happy about it.

Political leaders first and foremost duty is towards the people they represent and not towards some regional utopia.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Yes all 4 wars were fought because of saffron lenses. Your half truths hold no water.

Pakistan even today supports a violent secessionist movement in India. There cannot be a better reason to dial down bilateral ties.

If by submissive you mean Hindus are not caught orchestrating terrorist attacks and killing people, i am very happy about it.

Political leaders first and foremost duty is towards the people they represent and not towards some regional utopia.

Ironic you talk about half truths when you talk about Pakistan starting all wars even when India eagerly stepped into an internal dispute within Pakistan in the 71 war. Even more ironic when it's probably true that India is the one providing violent support for seccessionist movements in Pakistan, and probably organising terror attacks through proxies in Pakistan.

But regardless, that wasn't my point. Your saffron lenses mean your view will always be coloured permamently towards hostile relations with Pakistan, and that is inevitable because of your hindutva ideology with it's innate fear of Islam. This is different from more traditional Hinduism which is more holistic.

 

[uppercut]

BJP supporters should cease pretending that they don't endorse and propagate the anti-Muslim rhetoric promoted by the ruling party in India. As ardent supporters, they should openly acknowledge and champion this stance, similar to how many Israelis openly endorse the Gaza genocide, without the need for evasion to further their anti-Muslim agenda.

I quoted the wrong post in my previous response ...

You completely side stepped my question in post#156 read it again and see if you can answer it. If not then say so.

 

[Hitman]

Ironic you talk about half truths when you talk about Pakistan starting all wars even when India eagerly stepped into an internal dispute within Pakistan in the 71 war.

What was India supposed to do? Keep watching Pakistani soldiers rape women and massacre people during Operation Searchlight that they launched in East Pakistan?

Even then India didn't cross international borders till Pakistan launched Operation Chengiz Khan on us. That was the formal declaration of war.​

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

What was India supposed to do? Keep watching Pakistani soldiers rape women and massacre people during Operation Searchlight that they launched in East Pakistan?

Even then India didn't cross international borders till Pakistan launched Operation Chengiz Khan on us. That was the formal declaration of war.​

Did Pakistan step into internal disputes with Tamil separatists in India or when Indian soldiers have raped and massacred civilians in Indian occupied Kashmir?

But in any case, you are ignoring the main point raised which is that hindutvas are using history to maintain hostiile relations in past, present and future. There are underlying ideological reasons for this that you won't acknowledge because you know this will show the real face of BJP and their RSS ideologues.

 

[Hitman]

Did Pakistan step into internal disputes with Tamil separatists in India or when Indian soldiers have raped and massacred civilians in Indian occupied Kashmir?

You forgot about Operation Chengiz Khan that Pakistan launched on Indian air bases. It was after that India crossed international borders, not before that.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

You forgot about Operation Chengiz Khan that Pakistan launched on Indian air bases. It was after that India crossed international borders, not before that.

I won't get involved in hindutva version of historical events because I know this is a deflection tactic to avoid engaging in the debate about future relations between the two countries. Keep cutting out those parts of my quotes which you can't answer, this speaks volumes.

 

[Hitman]

I won't get involved in hindutva version of historical events because I know this is a deflection tactic to avoid engaging in the debate about future relations between the two countries. Keep cutting out those parts of my quotes which you can't answer, this speaks volumes.

Trying to run away now? History is history, there are no special versions. A quick Google search of Operation Chengiz Khan will give you all the details.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Trying to run away now? History is history, there are no special versions. A quick Google search of Operation Chengiz Khan will give you all the details.

I'm not the one needing to cut off quotes I can't reply to and trying to deflect to some historical point in 1971.

 

[Hitman]

I'm not the one needing to cut off quotes I can't reply to and trying to deflect to some historical point in 1971.

I beg your pardon, it was you who brought up the 1971 war while replying to @cricketjoshila .

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I beg your pardon, it was you who brought up the 1971 war while replying to @cricketjoshila .

Exactly. It was your hindutva compatriot who brought up 4 past wars in an effort to avoid discussing a less hostile future.

 

[HalBass9]

I quoted the wrong post in my previous response ...

You completely side stepped my question in post#156 read it again and see if you can answer it. If not then say so.

When you approach political discussions with an 'absolute' mindset, it implies that you are not open to discourse but rather seek to assert your own correctness. Political stances and bigotry carry consequences that may not be immediately apparent; they may take years, or even generations, to manifest fully.

Your presence here does not seem to be for the purpose of engaging in discussion; rather, it appears to be solely for the sake of asserting your 'rightness' with a laundry list of points that we can endlessly debate back and forth.

 

[uppercut]

When you approach political discussions with an 'absolute' mindset, it implies that you are not open to discourse but rather seek to assert your own correctness. Political stances and bigotry carry consequences that may not be immediately apparent; they may take years, or even generations, to manifest fully.

When you make serious allegations.. then people will naturally ask for facts to back that up. And since 10 yrs and 2 terms is a pretty long time frame its a very pertinent question to ask for the damage caused by the said supposedly disastrous ideologies that the entire country has subscribed to according to you.

Your presence here does not seem to be for the purpose of engaging in discussion; rather, it appears to be solely for the sake of asserting your 'rightness' with a laundry list of points that we can endlessly debate back and forth.

So you want me to pretend that you have a case take your word for it without asking for evidence? This is not how proper debates work. This is just plain old rabble rousing.

 

[RexRex]

Exactly. It was your hindutva compatriot who brought up 4 past wars in an effort to avoid discussing a less hostile future.

Since you agree that Pakistan is the guilty party in all 4 wars, it should make up for its past by conveying to India that is has changed for good.

This they can do by engaging in gestures of good faith to show their sincerity. First step would be to release Kulbushan Yadav
and the next step would be to release all indian prisoners. That would signal the right intentions and bilateral talks for a less hostile future can proceed.

Do you agree ?

 

[rpant_gabba]

Since you agree that Pakistan is the guilty party in all 4 wars, it should make up for its past by conveying to India that is has changed for good.

I don’t think he concedes that. He just like to brush it under rug and put the onus on India

This they can do by engaging in gestures of good faith to show their sincerity. First step would be to release Kulbushan Yadav
and the next step would be to release all indian prisoners. That would signal the right intentions and bilateral talks for a less hostile future can proceed.

Do you agree ?

Goodluck getting a straight answer.

 

[rpant_gabba]

Did Pakistan step into internal disputes with Tamil separatists in India or when Indian soldiers have raped and massacred civilians in Indian occupied Kashmir?

it was/is lack capability on Pak’s part, not intent.

Pak capabilities were limited to funding and training non-state actors. Eg khalistan

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

This is reminiscent of an Indian ex-cricketer in the 90s saying: Indian batsmen should respect the Pakistani cricket team and not take them lightly because they have Wasim and Waqar, who were as formidable as nuclear weapons.

 

[Hitman]

This is reminiscent of an Indian ex-cricketer in the 90s saying: Indian batsmen should respect the Pakistani cricket team and not take them lightly because they have Wasim and Waqar, who were as formidable as nuclear weapons.

Who said that?

 

[HalBass9]

it was/is lack capability on Pak’s part, not intent.

Pak capabilities were limited to funding and training non-state actors. Eg khalistan

Again, you are pretending as if only Pakistan was involve in support of proxies.

 

[rpant_gabba]

Again, you are pretending as if only Pakistan was involve in support of proxies.

Anyway, my statement stands. Pak establishments ability seemed to limited to training non state actors, sneaking into unoccupied enemy territory and then running away (1965 and 1999)

 

[HalBass9]

Anyway, my statement stands. Pak establishments ability seemed to limited to training non state actors, sneaking into unoccupied enemy territory and then running away (1965 and 1999)

This isn't about ego for me; I'm not here to compete or elevate myself. Just because you disagree with my perspective on a certain period of Pakistani history doesn't mean I'm ignorant of Pakistan's political history.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Since you agree that Pakistan is the guilty party in all 4 wars, it should make up for its past by conveying to India that is has changed for good.

This they can do by engaging in gestures of good faith to show their sincerity. First step would be to release Kulbushan Yadav
and the next step would be to release all indian prisoners. That would signal the right intentions and bilateral talks for a less hostile future can proceed.

Do you agree ?

I didn't actually agree that Pakistan was the guilty party in all 4 wars, this is the Indian narrative, I don't know enough about it to confirm or deny. The 71 war looked to me like India stepped into a civil war to take advantage of Pakistan's geological disadvantage. The Kargil war was initiated by Pakistan for some bizarre reason, no problem accepting that.

Pakistan could certainly signal some goodwill gestures assuming they would be reciprocated from Indian side. I don't know enough about Kulbushan Yadav to confirm that would be the right first step, but I am sure both sides could make meaningful gestures to make a start on the path. Even small steps like resuming cricket series would be a start. Bigger stuff could follow once trust has been established.

 

[RexRex]

I didn't actually agree that Pakistan was the guilty party in all 4 wars, this is the Indian narrative, I don't know enough about it to confirm or deny. The 71 war looked to me like India stepped into a civil war to take advantage of Pakistan's geological disadvantage. The Kargil war was initiated by Pakistan for some bizarre reason, no problem accepting that.

Pakistan could certainly signal some goodwill gestures assuming they would be reciprocated from Indian side. I don't know enough about Kulbushan Yadav to confirm that would be the right first step, but I am sure both sides could make meaningful gestures to make a start on the path. Even small steps like resuming cricket series would be a start. Bigger stuff could follow once trust has been established.

You've been on this forum since 2010; the indo-pak wars have been discussed a gazillion times in mutiple threads and u still don't know the basic facts about the wars that the two countries fought ?

Come on. You're having a laugh.

 

[uppercut]

I don't think there is anything wrong with this per se, hindutva is an understandable reaction to most people's perception of a more submissive religion.

What does that mean ..... submissive religion ? and whos perception are you referring to?

 

[rpant_gabba]

You've been on this forum since 2010; the indo-pak wars have been discussed a gazillion times in mutiple threads and u still don't know the basic facts about the wars that the two countries fought ?

Come on. You're having a laugh.

Now imagine dealing with their diplomats who play this game day in and day out.

 

[cricketjoshila]

What was India supposed to do? Keep watching Pakistani soldiers rape women and massacre people during Operation Searchlight that they launched in East Pakistan?

Even then India didn't cross international borders till Pakistan launched Operation Chengiz Khan on us. That was the formal declaration of war.​

More than 10 million refugees, officially entered India, all of them pakistanis. Is this not an invasion?

 

[cricketjoshila]

Ironic you talk about half truths when you talk about Pakistan starting all wars even when India eagerly stepped into an internal dispute within Pakistan in the 71 war. Even more ironic when it's probably true that India is the one providing violent support for seccessionist movements in Pakistan, and probably organising terror attacks through proxies in Pakistan.

But regardless, that wasn't my point. Your saffron lenses mean your view will always be coloured permamently towards hostile relations with Pakistan, and that is inevitable because of your hindutva ideology with it's innate fear of Islam. This is different from more traditional Hinduism which is more holistic.

Pakistan forced 10mn pakistanis into India. What should we do?

Then launches air on our air bases.

Ofcourse we will retaliate.

Pakistan is a political and security issue. It will never leave a chance to take any military advantage. Vajpayee made the mistake of trusting Pakistan and we had Kargil. No need to fall in that trap again. Lives of our people cannot be risked.

 

[Hitman]

More than 10 million refugees, officially entered India, all of them pakistanis. Is this not an invasion?

Absolutely! It's ridiculous that in this day and age where information is easily available, some Pakistanis still blame India for that war. Who asked them to exploit East Pakistan and discriminate East Pakistanis like sub humans? The Bhola cyclone in November, 1970 was the straw that broke the camel's back. If East Pakistanis weren't discriminated and were given their due rights, they wouldn't have revolted in the first place.​

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

You've been on this forum since 2010; the indo-pak wars have been discussed a gazillion times in mutiple threads and u still don't know the basic facts about the wars that the two countries fought ?

Come on. You're having a laugh.

I don't really have much personal history with Pakistan, I joined up in 2010 to talk cricket so no, I don't really have an intimate knowledge of indo-pak wars. It does seem a bit odd that a much smaller country with less military capability would launch wars against a much bigger and well armed opponent though if what I keep reading from Indian bots is true. Seems unlikely to say the least.

 

[FearlessRoar]

Congress, SP Pakistan's sympathisers: PM Modi at rally in UP's Basti​

Prime Minister Narendra Modi on Wednesday here called Congress and Samajwadi Party "sympathisers of Pakistan" and alleged that these parties are "scaring the country" with its nuclear power status.

"This patron of terrorism which once used to make eyes at us, its condition has become such that its people are hard up even for grain. Pakistan is finished, but its sympathisers, SP and Congress, are busy scaring the country," Modi said at a poll rally while campaigning for BJP's Basti Lok Sabha candidate Harish Dwivedi.

"They say one needs to be scared of Pakistan because it has an atom bomb. Don't they know what is 56-inch (chest)? It's not the weak Congress government ... but the strong government of Modi," Modi said.

"India does not spare those who tries to bully it. India today beats them in their own homes," he said.

https://www.business-standard.com/elections/lok-sabha-election/congress-sp-pakistan-s-sympathisers-pm-modi-at-rally-in-up-s-basti-124052200679_1.html

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

"They say one needs to be scared of Pakistan because it has an atom bomb. Don't they know what is 56-inch (chest)? It's not the weak Congress government ... but the strong government of Modi," Modi said.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

When you approach political discussions with an 'absolute' mindset, it implies that you are not open to discourse but rather seek to assert your own correctness. Political stances and bigotry carry consequences that may not be immediately apparent; they may take years, or even generations, to manifest fully.

Your presence here does not seem to be for the purpose of engaging in discussion; rather, it appears to be solely for the sake of asserting your 'rightness' with a laundry list of points that we can endlessly debate back and forth.

You finally cracked it.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

"They say one needs to be scared of Pakistan because it has an atom bomb. Don't they know what is 56-inch (chest)? It's not the weak Congress government ... but the strong government of Modi," Modi said.

"India does not spare those who tries to bully it. India today beats them in their own homes," he said.

Modi, known for his "56-inch chest," shrinks to 5.6 inches when challenged to a debate with Rahul Gandhi. Has he seen Saif Ali Khan's movie Phantom? When has India defeated its bully on their own turf under his leadership?

 

[The Bald Eagle]

Yep how can he forget 27th February 2019
====
Pakistan ki taakat mai khud check karke aaya': PM Modi on Mani Shankar's claim

Prime Minister Narendra Modi on Thursday said he personally visited Lahore, where he assessed Pakistan's capabilities firsthand.

In a recent interview with India TV, the Prime Minister was responding to Congress leader Mani Shankar Aiyar's remarks suggesting that India should respect Pakistan due to its nuclear capabilities.

The Prime Minister recounted an incident during his 2015 trip when a Pakistani reporter expressed surprise at his unannounced arrival without a visa, to which PM Modi responded, "Uss taakat ko mei khud Lahore jaakar check karke aaya hu (I had personally visited Pakistan to check how powerful it is)".

PM Modi also addressed various topics, including the revocation of Article 370 and the Opposition's allegations regarding his stance on Muslim reservations. He emphasized his foreign policy experience, citing the personal and official relationships he has developed with world leaders.

Source: NDTV

 

[Hitman]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1794404596204376553

 

[MP2011]

Yep how can he forget 27th February 2019
====
Pakistan ki taakat mai khud check karke aaya': PM Modi on Mani Shankar's claim

Prime Minister Narendra Modi on Thursday said he personally visited Lahore, where he assessed Pakistan's capabilities firsthand.

In a recent interview with India TV, the Prime Minister was responding to Congress leader Mani Shankar Aiyar's remarks suggesting that India should respect Pakistan due to its nuclear capabilities.

The Prime Minister recounted an incident during his 2015 trip when a Pakistani reporter expressed surprise at his unannounced arrival without a visa, to which PM Modi responded, "Uss taakat ko mei khud Lahore jaakar check karke aaya hu (I had personally visited Pakistan to check how powerful it is)".

PM Modi also addressed various topics, including the revocation of Article 370 and the Opposition's allegations regarding his stance on Muslim reservations. He emphasized his foreign policy experience, citing the personal and official relationships he has developed with world leaders.

Source: NDTV

What an idiotic creature this feku is! And andhbhakts will lap this up too! And then they call themselves educated! Shame

 

[MP2011]

lol, checking a country's taakat just by visiting the places where you were allowed to by that country.

This is on par with feku's special powers of telling cloud cover deceiving the radars or producing gas from gutter!

 

[hassan918]

India has more nuclear weapons than Pakistan: SIPRI​

STOCKHOLM: India possesses more nuclear weapons than Pakistan in 2024, according to the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute's (SIPRI) annual assessment.

The watchdog, in its assessment of the state of armaments, disarmament and international security, revealed United States owns the most warheads, followed by Russia, United Kingdom, France, China, India, Pakistan, North Korea and Israel.

The report also said that amid deteriorating geopolitical relations, the role of nuclear weapons has become more prominent with an increase in their number and types as states deepen their reliance on nuclear deterrence.

It said that the nuclear-armed states continued to modernise their nuclear arsenals and several deployed new nuclear-armed or nuclear-capable weapon systems in 2023.

The research noted that about 9,585 warheads out of 12,121 in January 2024 were in military stockpiles for potential use. Moreover, 3,904 of those warheads were deployed with missiles and aircraft — 60 more than in January 2023 while around 2,100 were kept in a state of high operational alert on ballistic missiles.

It added that nearly all of these warheads belonged to Russia or the US but for the first time, China is believed to have some warheads on high operational alert.

Expressing concerns over this trend, SIPRI Director Dan Smith said: "While the global total of nuclear warheads continues to fall as cold war-era weapons are gradually dismantled, regrettably we continue to see year-on-year increases in the number of operational nuclear warheads."

SIPRI further said that Russia and the US possess almost 90% of all nuclear weapons, adding that both countries have more than 1,200 retired warheads from military service which they are dismantling. It has also estimated that China's nuclear arsenal increased from 410 warheads in January 2023 to 500 in January 2024.

About UK, it said that its warhead stockpile is expected to grow in the future while France continued its programmes to develop a third-generation nuclear-powered ballistic missile submarine (SSBN) and a new air-launched cruise missile, as well as to refurbish and upgrade existing systems.

SIPRI said that India and North Korea are pursuing the capability to deploy multiple warheads on ballistic missiles. It also said that India slightly expanded its nuclear arsenal in 2023.

"India appears to be placing growing emphasis on longer-range weapons, including those capable of reaching targets throughout China," it said, adding that India continued to develop new types of nuclear delivery system last year.

It said that North Korea has around 50 warheads and possesses enough fissile material to reach a total of up to 90 warheads, both significant increases over the estimates for January 2023.

Israel is also believed to be modernising its nuclear arsenal and appears to be upgrading its plutonium production reactor site at Dimona.

"We are now in one of the most dangerous periods in human history," said Smith. "There are numerous sources of instability — political rivalries, economic inequalities, ecological disruption, an accelerating arms race. The abyss is beckoning and it is time for the great powers to step back and reflect. Preferably together."

Source: GEO

 

[JaDed]

Yeah no kidding seeing whats happening to Ukraine and Palestine I don’t blame any country of having nuclear arsenal, easiest defensive capability and zero sum situation.