“What China says about their programs in Xinjiang, we accept it" : PM Imran Khan

[MenInG]

The premier, while commenting on the situation of Muslims in China's Xinjiang, said through interaction with Chinese officials, the government knows that what’s happening in Xinjiang is completely different to the version given by the Western media and the Western governments.

“So, because we have a very strong relationship with China and because we have a relationship based trust, we actually accept the Chinese version.”

“What they say about their programs in Xinjiang, we accept it.”

“Secondly, we find it a little bit hypocritical. When there are much worse human rights issues in the world, which [should] get more attention, for instance, Kashmir is a huge human rights issue.”

"Western media hardly comments on this [Kashmir]," he added.

https://tribune.com.pk/story/230826...for-offering-alternative-to-western-democracy

 

[Napa]

“Secondly, we find it a little bit hypocritical. When there are much worse human rights issues in the world, which [should] get more attention, for instance, Kashmir is a huge human rights issue.”

"Western media hardly comments on this [Kashmir]," he added.

Western media hardly comments on Kashmir because Indian soldiers are not sleeping with Kashmiri women when their husbands are in concentration camps, forced sterilizations of Kashmiri women are not being carried out, restaurants are not being forced to stay open during Ramadan etc. You get my drift...

 

[Romali_rotti]

Wow, so Part Time Ummah basically, applies to some, not for others....

I cant be too harsh on Imran, his country is in quick sand and he has to do the best he can....

 

[syed abbas]

Honestly,I don't understand the sentiments of Pakistanis regarding Uighur Muslims.Some of them Uighur Muslims have received militant training in FATA,joined IS and fought against the USSR during the Afghan war. Extremism among Uighur is not a recent phenomenon;it dates back to 1980s.China is already late. Besides,why should Pakistan or any leader of Pakistan speak on the behalf of Muslim countries when we are literally begging are for money?

 

[SangasCoverDrive]

Honestly,I don't understand the sentiments of Pakistanis regarding Uighur Muslims.Some of them Uighur Muslims have received militant training in FATA,joined IS and fought against the USSR during the Afghan war. Extremism among Uighur is not a recent phenomenon;it dates back to 1980s.China is already late. Besides,why should Pakistan or any leader of Pakistan speak on the behalf of Muslim countries when we are literally begging are for money?

If you think, Kashmiris and Palestinians do the same thing. A lot of ISIS flags are waved in Kashmir and Palestinians, well less talk about them the better. Munich Massacre, Hamas, Pan Am hijacking (which was in Pakistan). Then why should Pakistan support Kashmir and Palestinians?

 

[Local.Dada]

Honestly,I don't understand the sentiments of Pakistanis regarding Uighur Muslims.Some of them Uighur Muslims have received militant training in FATA,joined IS and fought against the USSR during the Afghan war. Extremism among Uighur is not a recent phenomenon;it dates back to 1980s.China is already late. Besides,why should Pakistan or any leader of Pakistan speak on the behalf of Muslim countries when we are literally begging are for money?

So Uighur militants have received militant training in the Afghan war but the Kashmiri freedom fighters have never been Mujahideen or are just peaceful protestors holding placards?

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

IK is well within his rights to believe Chinese version of events if he believes it to be true. As long as he actually does believe it and isn't blindly accepting a script.

 

[syed abbas]

If you think, Kashmiris and Palestinians do the same thing. A lot of ISIS flags are waved in Kashmir and Palestinians, well less talk about them the better. Munich Massacre, Hamas, Pan Am hijacking (which was in Pakistan). Then why should Pakistan support Kashmir and Palestinians?

Islamic State arose and established itself in the Middle East.Later,it established ISKP(Islamic State of Khorasan Province) in Afghanistan to recruit Muslims from subcontinent.IS raised flags in Kashmir but carried out multiple attacks inside Pakistan.Similraly, around 100 Indian Muslims have left to join ISIS,and many many other could not join after intelligence operations were launched.So, blaming Pakistan for ISIS' activities in India is incorrect. Regarding Palestine issue,I will repeat what I have said: we should stop acting as leader of Umaah.

 

[saeedhk]

As I have said before, Pakistan has no principles, values or ethics. It is all about money and self-interests. If tomorrow Israel gives up some money and some beautiful military hardware, we would abandon Palestine in no time. Our history is full of us selling out our country and its people for dollars.

 

[guna]

Chinese are altering the holy Qur'an to suit their agenda. Uighars are in re-education camps relearning Chinese version of Islam. The ones that do not agree disappear without a trace.

I guess Imran is also okay with all of this as long as China gives him loans.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Chinese are altering the holy Qur'an to suit their agenda. Uighars are in re-education camps relearning Chinese version of Islam. The ones that do not agree disappear without a trace.

I guess Imran is also okay with all of this as long as China gives him loans.

Pakistan is not really in a position to lecture China on how to run China. There will be some common ground on trade and investment, those are the areas where both countries can come to agreement.

 

[guna]

Pakistan is not really in a position to lecture China on how to run China. There will be some common ground on trade and investment, those are the areas where both countries can come to agreement.

Imran has the right to pick and choose whom to criticize and whom to turn a blind eye when it comes to Muslim treatment.

Its just that no one takes this man's words seriously if he continues his ways.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Imran has the right to pick and choose whom to criticize and whom to turn a blind eye when it comes to Muslim treatment.

Its just that no one takes this man's words seriously if he continues his ways.

He won't be concerned by what those no ones think.

 

[Itachi]

IK is well within his rights to believe Chinese version of events if he believes it to be true. As long as he actually does believe it and isn't blindly accepting a script.

I agree.

If he believes it, it can be acceptable to certain extent. Every premier has their own ideology. It can have a positive or negative repercussions but every leader should have one.

But if he is blindly accepting a script, it's a bit dangerous.

 

[guna]

He won't be concerned by what those no ones think.

I am not talking about any Kumar or Abdul on the street. I am talking about world leaders who can clearly see what Imran is about.

 

[street cricketer]

If we're being honest, Imran probably is fully aware of what goes inside China.

He just is not in any position to dictate terms to China given China pretty much bankrolls the country after Pakistan got caught in a debt trap.

 

[Local.Dada]

I am not talking about any Kumar or Abdul on the street. I am talking about world leaders who can clearly see what Imran is about.

With all due respect I am not sure Imran Khan is on the radar for any world leaders.

While that may offend people here, I actually think he is right. China is doing what they think is right for their internal security. It’s not USA or anyone’s problem what happens to Uyghur muslims and neither do they really care unless it involves their own citizens.

Actually let’s hope it’s a start where the focus will be on Pakistan and its problems than Israel- Palestine conflict, Islamophobia in France or what RSS done in some obscure Indian village.

Now if he goes back to that rhetoric then do we even have to comment on that, it all becomes self explanatory.

 

[Ahmad-GERMANFC]

If you think, Kashmiris and Palestinians do the same thing. A lot of ISIS flags are waved in Kashmir and Palestinians, well less talk about them the better. Munich Massacre, Hamas, Pan Am hijacking (which was in Pakistan). Then why should Pakistan support Kashmir and Palestinians?

Pakistan supports Palestine because of Jerusalem, Al Aqsa and it being the third holiest land in the Islamic religion. There is nothing specifically about the Palestinian people themselves. Similarly Pakistan supports Kashmir for the sentimental links and because Pakistan considers it as part of their own country and vice versa.

Muslims in Sudan, Myanmar, China, Chechnya obviously don’t have same Connection. I thought this is pretty simple to understand but some people are too dense and simple minded I guess

 

[Local.Dada]

Pakistan supports Palestine because of Jerusalem, Al Aqsa and it being the third holiest land in the Islamic religion. There is nothing specifically about the Palestinian people themselves. Similarly Pakistan supports Kashmir for the sentimental links and because Pakistan considers it as part of their own country and vice versa.

Muslims in Sudan, Myanmar, China, Chechnya obviously don’t have same Connection. I thought this is pretty simple to understand but some people are too dense and simple minded I guess

Where does Turkey fit in here or Malaysia? I am assuming Ertugul and probably a 5th or is it 6th holiest site in Malaysia?

 

[SangasCoverDrive]

Pakistan supports Palestine because of Jerusalem, Al Aqsa and it being the third holiest land in the Islamic religion. There is nothing specifically about the Palestinian people themselves. Similarly Pakistan supports Kashmir for the sentimental links and because Pakistan considers it as part of their own country and vice versa.

Muslims in Sudan, Myanmar, China, Chechnya obviously don’t have same Connection. I thought this is pretty simple to understand but some people are too dense and simple minded I guess

There are Uighur Muslims in Pakistan too. The land border of Pakistan and China is Uighur dominated area.

 

[SangasCoverDrive]

Where does Turkey fit in here or Malaysia? I am assuming Ertugul and probably a 5th or is it 6th holiest site in Malaysia?

It's useless talking with him. Holy Prophet (pbuh) said that arabs are not superior over non-arabs but for Pakistanis its the exact opposite, they refuse to even see people other than Arabs and Kashmiris as Muslims, that's why Bangla genocide happened too. The guy doesn't even know that the area bordering Pakistan and China is Uighur dominated and there are a lot of Uighurs in Pakistan side of border too and they live in places like Karachi, Islamabad and Lahore too usually working as the cooks.

 

[guna]

With all due respect I am not sure Imran Khan is on the radar for any world leaders.

While that may offend people here, I actually think he is right. China is doing what they think is right for their internal security. It’s not USA or anyone’s problem what happens to Uyghur muslims and neither do they really care unless it involves their own citizens.

Actually let’s hope it’s a start where the focus will be on Pakistan and its problems than Israel- Palestine conflict, Islamophobia in France or what RSS done in some obscure Indian village.

Now if he goes back to that rhetoric then do we even have to comment on that, it all becomes self explanatory.

Far right Islamism sells in Pakistan. Imran tries to sell it to stay in power.

 

[Local.Dada]

It's useless talking with him. Holy Prophet (pbuh) said that arabs are not superior over non-arabs but for Pakistanis its the exact opposite, they refuse to even see people other than Arabs and Kashmiris as Muslims, that's why Bangla genocide happened too. The guy doesn't even know that the area bordering Pakistan and China is Uighur dominated and there are a lot of Uighurs in Pakistan side of border too and they live in places like Karachi, Islamabad and Lahore too usually working as the cooks.

There are too many holes in the logic. At this point I don’t even bother lol.

India is a neighbor so concerned for Muslims but China isn’t a neighbor? Has anybody seen a map?

What happens next door in China is their internal problem but it’s ok to protest against laws in France or raise concerns about islamophobia in France.

Israel has the 3rd holiest site for Muslims so concerned for Palestinians but no rights for minorities like Sikhs who have their 1st holiest site and Hindus whose religion itself is named after a river and a province part of modern day Pakistan. Can use slurs against them with no problem.

Anyways it’s ok if someone comes out and say Pakistan adopts selective diplomacy, no one would care but this holier than thou preachy stuff is what opens up people to ridicule

 

[Itachi]

There are too many holes in the logic. At this point I don’t even bother lol.

India is a neighbor so concerned for Muslims but China isn’t a neighbor? Has anybody seen a map?

What happens next door in China is their internal problem but it’s ok to protest against laws in France or raise concerns about islamophobia in France.

Israel has the 3rd holiest site for Muslims so concerned for Palestinians but no rights for minorities like Sikhs who have their 1st holiest site and Hindus whose religion itself is named after a river and a province part of modern day Pakistan. Can use slurs against them with no problem.

Anyways it’s ok if someone comes out and say Pakistan adopts selective diplomacy, no one would care but this holier than thou preachy stuff is what opens up people to ridicule

There is no loophole. He just avoids writing one crucial variable in the equation.

Don't bite the hand that feeds you.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I am not talking about any Kumar or Abdul on the street. I am talking about world leaders who can clearly see what Imran is about.

He is dealing directly with world leaders anyway. Pakistan has some leverage because of it's geopolitical position.

 

[Ahmad-GERMANFC]

There are Uighur Muslims in Pakistan too. The land border of Pakistan and China is Uighur dominated area.

Where does Turkey fit in here or Malaysia? I am assuming Ertugul and probably a 5th or is it 6th holiest site in Malaysia?

It's useless talking with him. Holy Prophet (pbuh) said that arabs are not superior over non-arabs but for Pakistanis its the exact opposite, they refuse to even see people other than Arabs and Kashmiris as Muslims, that's why Bangla genocide happened too. The guy doesn't even know that the area bordering Pakistan and China is Uighur dominated and there are a lot of Uighurs in Pakistan side of border too and they live in places like Karachi, Islamabad and Lahore too usually working as the cooks.

Where has turkey or Malaysia come from in this conversation? Those are just friendly countries. not same situation as Palestine etc.

Clearly things went over your head if you can’t grasp that.

 

[Ahmad-GERMANFC]

There are Uighur Muslims in Pakistan too. The land border of Pakistan and China is Uighur dominated area.

Where does Turkey fit in here or Malaysia? I am assuming Ertugul and probably a 5th or is it 6th holiest site in Malaysia?

There are too many holes in the logic. At this point I don’t even bother lol.

India is a neighbor so concerned for Muslims but China isn’t a neighbor? Has anybody seen a map?

What happens next door in China is their internal problem but it’s ok to protest against laws in France or raise concerns about islamophobia in France.

Israel has the 3rd holiest site for Muslims so concerned for Palestinians but no rights for minorities like Sikhs who have their 1st holiest site and Hindus whose religion itself is named after a river and a province part of modern day Pakistan. Can use slurs against them with no problem.

Anyways it’s ok if someone comes out and say Pakistan adopts selective diplomacy, no one would care but this holier than thou preachy stuff is what opens up people to ridicule

again fairly dense posts

You are comparing india to China. Lmao.

pakistan has historical links with India. It was same region. Pakistan was built as a country for Muslims from India. So obv Pakistanis will care more for Indians.

Lmao at you guys thinking (either stupidly or disingenuously) that Indian Muslims and Chinese Muslims should have same sentimental value to Pakistanis

 

[Napa]

He is dealing directly with world leaders anyway. Pakistan has some leverage because of it's geopolitical position.

And most of the world leaders have ignored his non-stop whining about Modi being Hitler, RSS being Nazis and India committing genocide in Kashmir.

Heck, there are a bunch of Muslim countries that have given Modi their highest civilian awards!

https://www.jagranjosh.com/general-knowledge/narendra-modi-award-list-1561801667-1

People pay more heed to those who are consistent.

 

[Napa]

again fairly dense posts

You are comparing india to China. Lmao.

pakistan has historical links with India. It was same region. Pakistan was built as a country for Muslims from India. So obv Pakistanis will care more for Indians.

Lmao at you guys thinking (either stupidly or disingenuously) that Indian Muslims and Chinese Muslims should have same sentimental value to Pakistanis

You are free to have more sentimental value for whoever you chose.

However, people will think you are a hypocrite and ignore you if you complain about human rights violations while saying that you have more sentiments for some humans compared to others, and your best buddy has made human rights violations into a science.

 

[Itachi]

again fairly dense posts

You are comparing india to China. Lmao.

pakistan has historical links with India. It was same region. Pakistan was built as a country for Muslims from India. So obv Pakistanis will care more for Indians.

Lmao at you guys thinking (either stupidly or disingenuously) that Indian Muslims and Chinese Muslims should have same sentimental value to Pakistanis

Muslims should care for Muslims regardless of geography. it's not stupidity. It's what Islam teaches.

 

[Pakpak]

If we're being honest, Imran probably is fully aware of what goes inside China.

He just is not in any position to dictate terms to China given China pretty much bankrolls the country after Pakistan got caught in a debt trap.

Pretty much the most sensible post here amidst the usual nonsense people have on this topic.

 

[Itachi]

Pretty much the most sensible post here amidst the usual nonsense people have on this topic.

Just because you don't agree, doesn't mean it is non sense.

 

[gani999]

If we're being honest, Imran probably is fully aware of what goes inside China.

He just is not in any position to dictate terms to China given China pretty much bankrolls the country after Pakistan got caught in a debt trap.

This.

Imran can't say anything against China. The consequences will be pretty brutal if he does.

The same holds for the Mahatirs and Erdogans of the world too. China pretty much has them under its thumb.

 

[IMMY69]

IK is well within his rights to believe Chinese version of events if he believes it to be true. As long as he actually does believe it and isn't blindly accepting a script.

I now have the same view
IK is right.

 

[SangasCoverDrive]

I now have the same view
IK is right.

If the same thing was said by Zardari or Nawaz, would you agree?

 

[KingKhanWC]

He's correct, he knows.

There is no independent evidence apart from witness statements from people making claims of Chinese abuse.

As IK alluded too, we have so much proof of horrific state terrorism in Kashmir by India, inc mass rapes of young girls but this is not accepted by Indians or their supporters. Its a bit foolish of the Indian government or their citizens to attack China for something they are doing, much worse even if you beleive western media.

 

[cricketjoshila]

He won't be concerned by what those no ones think.

He is concerned thats why he begs western media or UN or some other country or organisation to intervene in Kashmir. Which is ignored by most because of his hypocritical track record.

The only no one is Imran, asking others to do something in Kashmir as he himself cant do jack.

 

[cricketjoshila]

He is dealing directly with world leaders anyway. Pakistan has some leverage because of it's geopolitical position.

Pakistan has zero leverage against India, which is why his rants on India are ignored by most world leaders.

 

[cricketjoshila]

With all due respect I am not sure Imran Khan is on the radar for any world leaders.

While that may offend people here, I actually think he is right. China is doing what they think is right for their internal security. It’s not USA or anyone’s problem what happens to Uyghur muslims and neither do they really care unless it involves their own citizens.

Actually let’s hope it’s a start where the focus will be on Pakistan and its problems than Israel- Palestine conflict, Islamophobia in France or what RSS done in some obscure Indian village.

Now if he goes back to that rhetoric then do we even have to comment on that, it all becomes self explanatory.

Macron doesn't have great relationship with Imran.

Biden hasnt even found time to have a telephonic conversation with Imran.

UK refused to give Imran the same deal as India leading to cancellation of a bilateral meet.

No Russian President has had a bilateral summit with a pakistani PM in decades.

Thats 4 out of the 5 permanent members of the UN.

Haven't checked if Imran has had a bilateral summit meeting with the Japanese or German PM/Chancellor.

 

[IMMY69]

If the same thing was said by Zardari or Nawaz, would you agree?

Yes of course I would!

My view has been formed from friends, business associates and acquaintances from both HK and China as well as from different news sources.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

he guy doesn't even know that the area bordering Pakistan and China is Uighur dominated and there are a lot of Uighurs in Pakistan side of border too and they live in places like Karachi, Islamabad and Lahore too usually working as the cooks.

Really? How do you define alot? For most people 0.0000000001% is not alot.

It's useless talking with him. Holy Prophet (pbuh) said that arabs are not superior over non-arabs but for Pakistanis its the exact opposite, they refuse to even see people other than Arabs and Kashmiris as Muslims, that's why Bangla genocide happened too.

Then why are Pakistanis not helping the Muslims of Syria, Yemen, Iraq? Are they not Arab?

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

This.

Imran can't say anything against China. The consequences will be pretty brutal if he does.

The same holds for the Mahatirs and Erdogans of the world too. China pretty much has them under its thumb.

Have you considered that Pakistanis dont care that much, which is why IK and other politicians are not talking about it? We also dont talk about Myanmar, which is not that strong of a country. We dont talk about the Muslims of Philippines. We dont talk about the Muslims of Darfur, Western Sahara. Its not just China.


Why are Pakistanis responsible for the problems that other Muslims are having? We are not the guardians of Islam.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Pakistan has zero leverage against India, which is why his rants on India are ignored by most world leaders.

lol. The world sees India as a 3rd world country, no chair on the UNSC or any real influence in geo-politics. Indians only pretend to have concern for anyone in China, their cheering of state terrorism in Kashmir proves this.

 

[Local.Dada]

lol. The world sees India as a 3rd world country, no chair on the UNSC or any real influence in geo-politics. Indians only pretend to have concern for anyone in China, their cheering of state terrorism in Kashmir proves this.

Let me set the expectation straight. There is absolutely 0 concern from Indians what happens to Uyghur Muslims. I am sure they are an internal security threat and China sees them that’s way.

No different from US UK, India or other European countries keeping their eye out for people following some extremist misinterpretation of Islam.

So it’s not really about the concern for Uyghur Muslims, it’s just about the hypocrisy.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

Western media hardly comments on Kashmir because Indian soldiers are not sleeping with Kashmiri women when their husbands are in concentration camps, forced sterilizations of Kashmiri women are not being carried out, restaurants are not being forced to stay open during Ramadan etc. You get my drift...

Indian soldiers have raped Kashmiri women. Its a well known fact. Western media does not care as they want India to counter China.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

Israel has the 3rd holiest site for Muslims so concerned for Palestinians but no rights for minorities like Sikhs who have their 1st holiest site and Hindus whose religion itself is named after a river and a province part of modern day Pakistan. Can use slurs against them with no problem.

Anyways it’s ok if someone comes out and say Pakistan adopts selective diplomacy, no one would care but this holier than thou preachy stuff is what opens up people to ridicule

Pakistanis are overwhelmingly Muslim. This is why we care about a Muslim holy place in Palestine. Sikh and Hindu religious sites have no significance for us. I dont see why this is hard to understand.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

again fairly dense posts

You are comparing india to China. Lmao.

pakistan has historical links with India. It was same region. Pakistan was built as a country for Muslims from India. So obv Pakistanis will care more for Indians.

Lmao at you guys thinking (either stupidly or disingenuously) that Indian Muslims and Chinese Muslims should have same sentimental value to Pakistanis

I think its stupidly. They dont see the difference as Hindus are almost all from one region. If their were Hindu majority countries outside of South Asia, then perhaps they would see the difference.

 

[Local.Dada]

Indian soldiers have raped Kashmiri women. Its a well known fact. Western media does not care as they want India to counter China.

Well known fact in Pakistan doesn’t count as a fact.

I have to take that statement personally if you call Indian army folk serving in Kashmir as having a state sponsored agenda to rape women. That is very offensive to me personally having members in the army who served in that area when someone calls them rapists.

Now a more reasonable take is every soldier who puts on the uniform is not an angel so there might have been the odd instance or 2 when some guy tried to violate the modesty of a woman. I am just being the devils advocate here and sure 1-2 of those folks might have gotten away with it too, that’s possible. That’s about it and no that doesn’t make it right and if they got away with it that’s disgusting but it’s no different from the family member who abuses kids and gets away with it. It’s sad but it happens.

That could be applicable to Pakistani soldiers or Pakistani people or from anywhere in the world.

Repeating it many times over doesn’t make it right.

Also Indian culture was never built on invading regions and taking their women as booty. The names of Pakistani missiles are Ghazni and Ghori and it’s a historical fact as to what they did when invading regions of present day India and Pakistan. Make whatever of that.

 

[Local.Dada]

Pakistanis are overwhelmingly Muslim. This is why we care about a Muslim holy place in Palestine. Sikh and Hindu religious sites have no significance for us. I dont see why this is hard to understand.

So you don’t cafe for your own citizens but bleed for foreigners. That says something doesn’t it.

Good to see you guys celebrate Shami and Irfan Pathans wickets over Danish Kaneria’s performances. Now that is hilarious

 

[KingKhanWC]

Let me set the expectation straight. There is absolutely 0 concern from Indians what happens to Uyghur Muslims. I am sure they are an internal security threat and China sees them that’s way.

No different from US UK, India or other European countries keeping their eye out for people following some extremist misinterpretation of Islam.

So it’s not really about the concern for Uyghur Muslims, it’s just about the hypocrisy.

Sorry, didnt realise you spoke for 1.3 billion Indians.

Its fake concern they show. Those Indians in their stupidity use the argument Pak doesnt care for Chinese Muslims while their own nation has been abusing millions for decades, now Muslims in India are also being lynched.

Indians comment on this subject but are mute when it comes to Kashmir.

Of course you have no concern, as you fail to condemn the abuse by your own nation, many even enjoy seeing people murdered and girls raped, such is their sick mentality.

 

[SangasCoverDrive]

Sorry, didnt realise you spoke for 1.3 billion Indians.

Its fake concern they show. Those Indians in their stupidity use the argument Pak doesnt care for Chinese Muslims while their own nation has been abusing millions for decades, now Muslims in India are also being lynched.

Indians comment on this subject but are mute when it comes to Kashmir.

Of course you have no concern, as you fail to condemn the abuse by your own nation, many even enjoy seeing people murdered and girls raped, such is their sick mentality.

Ahmadis and Shias are getting lynched in Pakistan yet Pakistanis show their fake concern for Muslims in Kashmir and Palestine.

 

[SangasCoverDrive]

Yes of course I would!

My view has been formed from friends, business associates and acquaintances from both HK and China as well as from different news sources.

If you are taking the words of your business associates and acquaintances from HK and China, what is stopping you to do the same in case of Kashmir and Palestine? Take the word from Indians and Israelis as they are more likely to be informed than you.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

So you don’t cafe for your own citizens but bleed for foreigners. That says something doesn’t it.

So we have to care more about Hindu/Sikh religious sites because they are in Pakistan, otherwise we dont care for our fellow Pakistanis who are non Muslim?????? How does this make sense?

If i said we care more for Palestinans than Pakistani Hindus/Sikhs then you might have had a point. But seems you cant understand why we would care for our holy sites, as they are not located in Pakistan. I am guessing you believe that your holy sites need to be in your country.

Good to see you guys celebrate Shami and Irfan Pathans wickets over Danish Kaneria’s performances. Now that is hilarious

People in Pakistan would definitely root for Kaneria against Shami and Pathan.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Ahmadis and Shias are getting lynched in Pakistan yet Pakistanis show their fake concern for Muslims in Kashmir and Palestine.

99% of them live in no fear. 200 million Muslims in India, another 8 million in Kashmir are living in fear.

 

[Local.Dada]

So we have to care more about Hindu/Sikh religious sites because they are in Pakistan, otherwise we dont care for our fellow Pakistanis who are non Muslim?????? How does this make sense?

If i said we care more for Palestinans than Pakistani Hindus/Sikhs then you might have had a point. But seems you cant understand why we would care for our holy sites, as they are not located in Pakistan. I am guessing you believe that your holy sites need to be in your country.




People in Pakistan would definitely root for Kaneria against Shami and Pathan.

Well I definitely care more and have reverence for the Golden Temple, Ajmer Sharif or Vellankani church over a Hindu temple in Chicago or Pittsburgh. Obviously not that I don’t care for the temples of places for worship in the Us but I think you probably got my point but just dancing around it or at this point if it is still not making sense to you maybe I need to take the high road.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

Now a more reasonable take is every soldier who puts on the uniform is not an angel so there might have been the odd instance or 2 when some guy tried to violate the modesty of a woman. I am just being the devils advocate here and sure 1-2 of those folks might have gotten away with it too, that’s possible. That’s about it and no that doesn’t make it right and if they got away with it that’s disgusting but it’s no different from the family member who abuses kids and gets away with it. It’s sad but it happens.

That could be applicable to Pakistani soldiers or Pakistani people or from anywhere in the world.

One or two my ***. You can use google and search. And i never said every soldier, or even the majority were the rapist. Just that rapes have happened in Kashmir.

Also Indian culture was never built on invading regions and taking their women as booty. The names of Pakistani missiles are Ghazni and Ghori and it’s a historical fact as to what they did when invading regions of present day India and Pakistan. Make whatever of that.

How do you think "Indian" empires expanded???? How did the Mauryan empire, the Gupta empire, etc expand? You think they did not use the sword? Do you think those Kings were democratically elected?

Or are you using the Hindutva logic, that India while never politically united, was one cultural entity, and any fighting that happened within India were an internal affair.

By this logic Ghazni and Ghori had their families not converted to Islam, would also not be viewed as invaders. They would just be another Indian empire. As modern Afghanistan is also included in the Hindutva definition of India. You certainly would not be complaining about them had their families remained Buddhist, Hindu, pagan, etc.

 

[SangasCoverDrive]

99% of them live in no fear. 200 million Muslims in India, another 8 million in Kashmir are living in fear.

Are you fr? You saying that Ahmadis in Pakistan don't live in any fear? That just shows how much out of touch you are with ground realities in Pakistan. Even Shias starting to live in fear in Pakistan esp since the rise of mullahs under Imran Khan.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

Are you fr? You saying that Ahmadis in Pakistan don't live in any fear? That just shows how much out of touch you are with ground realities in Pakistan. Even Shias starting to live in fear in Pakistan esp since the rise of mullahs under Imran Khan.

With Ahmadis you have a point, with Shias its nonsense.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

Well I definitely care more and have reverence for the Golden Temple, Ajmer Sharif or Vellankani church over a Hindu temple in Chicago or Pittsburgh. Obviously not that I don’t care for the temples of places for worship in the Us but I think you probably got my point but just dancing around it or at this point if it is still not making sense to you maybe I need to take the high road.

We would also care more Taxila then Stonehenge, we would care more about Mohenjo-daro then Babylon, we should do a better job in promoting the Hindu history of the region as thats excluded.

However the top 3 Muslim religious sites, will always be more important than any religious site in Pakistan. Whether its a mosque, dargah, mandir, gurdwara, etc.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Are you fr? You saying that Ahmadis in Pakistan don't live in any fear? That just shows how much out of touch you are with ground realities in Pakistan. Even Shias starting to live in fear in Pakistan esp since the rise of mullahs under Imran Khan.

Common sense and mathematics will help you here.

208 million compared to a few million(if all Ahmedis were in fear) is not a comparison. Shias openely ever year hold rallies, processions, nothing happens to them. The terrorists attacking them , many were funded by the Indian state sponsor of terrorist government from Afghanistan.

The BJP government, its ministers have been spouting hate speech against Muslims in India and occupied Kashmir. This is your government not some radical nutter Hindu extremists with knives. The Paksitan government doesnt incite hatred to the few million.

Understand these two points.

Do not get triggered over what Imran Khan says on China, when your government is terrorising Muslim. Remember YOUR government , not any nutjob group.

Ill ask you... Do you condemn alleged Chinese abuses? Do you feel for those people?

Your answer should be .. No because you dont care for millions more fellow Indians because they are Muslims.

 

[ishtiaq_ctg]

99% of them live in no fear. 200 million Muslims in India, another 8 million in Kashmir are living in fear.

Pakistan is one of the worst state in the world for Ahmadis & shias to live in. There's very few countries in the world that are as hostile as pakistan to their religious minorities.

 

[ishtiaq_ctg]

Pakistan committed one of the worst genocide of human history in 1971 so it's not surprising that they're ignoring the Chinese genocide. A country of great promise destroyed by Army, worst leaders and mullahs.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

Pakistan is one of the worst state in the world for Ahmadis & shias to live in. There's very few countries in the world that are as hostile as pakistan to their religious minorities.

Yet Pakistan gives their religious minorities a quota in parliament. Minorities are over represented in Pakistani parliament. In India and Bangladesh they are underrepresented.

In Pakistan the minority population has increased since 1951. In Bangladesh the minority population has been declining.

 

[SangasCoverDrive]

Yet Pakistan gives their religious minorities a quota in parliament. Minorities are over represented in Pakistani parliament. In India and Bangladesh they are underrepresented.

In Pakistan the minority population has increased since 1951. In Bangladesh the minority population has been declining.

In Pakistan, a non-Muslim can not become HOS. let that sink in

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

In Pakistan, a non-Muslim can not become HOS. let that sink in

Would you agree with this. Lets remove that law that non-Muslims cant be President or Prime Minister. In exchange the quota that non Muslims receive in parliament is also removed. Would you support this?

After all India is not giving Muslims a quota in parliament, neither does UK, or US, or France. Why should Pakistan give one?

 

[Napa]

Indian soldiers have raped Kashmiri women. Its a well known fact. Western media does not care as they want India to counter China.

You have no clue about the real world. In your attempt to create a false equivalence between India and China, you have become delusional. Is India doing this?

"China is reportedly sending men to sleep in the same beds as Uighur Muslim women while their husbands are in prison camps"
https://www.businessinsider.com/china-uighur-monitor-home-shared-bed-report-2019-11

 

[PetroDollars]

As expected IK will do anything for Chinese money, He is ready to accept and defend israel if they start investing in Pakistan.

The way he was begging and pushing up to Trump exposed this man, the first joint press conference is obvious of this fact, when he didnt get the money he turned against them.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

You have no clue about the real world. In your attempt to create a false equivalence between India and China, you have become delusional. Is India doing this?

"China is reportedly sending men to sleep in the same beds as Uighur Muslim women while their husbands are in prison camps"
https://www.businessinsider.com/china-uighur-monitor-home-shared-bed-report-2019-11

I am not trying to draw any equivalency between China and India. China is clearly worse.

However this is your original post.

Western media hardly comments on Kashmir because Indian soldiers are not sleeping with Kashmiri women when their husbands are in concentration camps, forced sterilizations of Kashmiri women are not being carried out, restaurants are not being forced to stay open during Ramadan etc. You get my drift...

You are implying that the Western countries primary concern is human rights, which is why its ok for them to ask Imran Khan to comment on China. And when he brings up Kashmir, the implication is the situation is not that bad there which is why the great humanitarians in the west dont talk about that issue.

I will repeat, the only reason the West is talking about China is because of its growing power. They could care less about the Uyghurs.

 

[Itachi]

Would you agree with this. Lets remove that law that non-Muslims cant be President or Prime Minister. In exchange the quota that non Muslims receive in parliament is also removed. Would you support this?

After all India is not giving Muslims a quota in parliament, neither does UK, or US, or France. Why should Pakistan give one?

I'll agree.

None of constitution in india, UK, US or France discriminates against minority. What pakistan is doing now is similar to taking land away from the poor and in return giving them some token money.

It's similar to, "I am allowing you to fly but as a non muslim, THIS IS YOUR LIMIT"

Pakistan promotes institutional discrimination while none of the country you mentioned does.

 

[Itachi]

One or two my ***. You can use google and search. And i never said every soldier, or even the majority were the rapist. Just that rapes have happened in Kashmir.



How do you think "Indian" empires expanded???? How did the Mauryan empire, the Gupta empire, etc expand? You think they did not use the sword? Do you think those Kings were democratically elected?

Or are you using the Hindutva logic, that India while never politically united, was one cultural entity, and any fighting that happened within India were an internal affair.

By this logic Ghazni and Ghori had their families not converted to Islam, would also not be viewed as invaders. They would just be another Indian empire. As modern Afghanistan is also included in the Hindutva definition of India. You certainly would not be complaining about them had their families remained Buddhist, Hindu, pagan, etc.

Are you implying that islam too was spread at the tip of the sword?

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

Are you implying that islam too was spread at the tip of the sword?

Muslims, like every other group, certainly used the sword to conquer land. They did not do so peacefully.

However you are confusing Islam and Muslims. Islam is the religion, and Muslims are the adherents of that religion. Just because Muslims conquered land somewhere does not mean that they forced people to accept Islam.

Their are Muslim majority areas where not one Muslim soldier ever went to. Their are areas where Muslims ruled for centuries and are non Muslim till this day.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

I'll agree.

None of constitution in india, UK, US or France discriminates against minority. What pakistan is doing now is similar to taking land away from the poor and in return giving them some token money.

It's similar to, "I am allowing you to fly but as a non muslim, THIS IS YOUR LIMIT"

Pakistan promotes institutional discrimination while none of the country you mentioned does.

I am against the law and I want it gone, but i think you have it opposite. Its not a token when you are getting something better in return. Since you took the "deal" that i suggested, lets look at what would be the end result. No minority would be elected President or Prime Minister. And parliament would have zero male minorities. Female minorities could still get elected through the women quota.

If anything I think the minorities should ask to get an increase in the minority quota. Thats more realistic then getting the law changed about President and PM. And once again I am against that law, and if it was up to me I would get rid of it while keeping the minority quota.

 

[Napa]

I am not trying to draw any equivalency between China and India. China is clearly worse.

However this is your original post.



You are implying that the Western countries primary concern is human rights, which is why its ok for them to ask Imran Khan to comment on China. And when he brings up Kashmir, the implication is the situation is not that bad there which is why the great humanitarians in the west dont talk about that issue.

I will repeat, the only reason the West is talking about China is because of its growing power. They could care less about the Uyghurs.

I suppose you didn't get my drift. I was listing things China has been doing, as I was referring to IK's complaint that India's human rights abuses were worse than China. He said "When there are much worse human rights issues in the world, which [should] get more attention, for instance, Kashmir is a huge human rights issue."

 

[street cricketer]

Would you agree with this. Lets remove that law that non-Muslims cant be President or Prime Minister. In exchange the quota that non Muslims receive in parliament is also removed. Would you support this?

After all India is not giving Muslims a quota in parliament, neither does UK, or US, or France. Why should Pakistan give one?

The religious "quota" is as big a straw man argument if ever was. The minorities in Pakistan's parliament have about the same influence as muslim welfare division heads get in the RSS or BJP.

What use is the "quota" if they can't get minority protection bills passed in the senate as it's going to be struck down by some Islamic cleric citing it's against islam.

Bill aiming to ban child marriages shot down

https://tribune.com.pk/story/1027742/settled-matter-bill-aiming-to-ban-child-marriages-shot-down

Senate panel rejects bill for minorities

https://tribune.com.pk/story/2265480/senate-panel-rejects-bill-for-minorities

The minorities in Pakistan would any day opt to ditch the special "quota" they get in the Pakistani parliament in exchange for the laws prevailing in the countries you have mentioned. Not because they want to become the President or Prime minister, which is not going to happen even if Pakistan becomes a secular state tomorrow. But to protect their rights more and stop forced conversions and get equal rights as muslims have in the country. But the "quota" seems to be a sad excuse of an argument that apologists for maintaining an islamic republic make.

 

[Itachi]

Muslims, like every other group, certainly used the sword to conquer land. They did not do so peacefully.

However you are confusing Islam and Muslims. Islam is the religion, and Muslims are the adherents of that religion. Just because Muslims conquered land somewhere does not mean that they forced people to accept Islam.

Their are Muslim majority areas where not one Muslim soldier ever went to. Their are areas where Muslims ruled for centuries and are non Muslim till this day.

If Muslims doesn't represent Islam, then if I discriminate against a Muslim, it shouldn't be Islamophobia. is it?

 

[Itachi]

I am against the law and I want it gone, but i think you have it opposite. Its not a token when you are getting something better in return. Since you took the "deal" that i suggested, lets look at what would be the end result. No minority would be elected President or Prime Minister. And parliament would have zero male minorities. Female minorities could still get elected through the women quota.

If anything I think the minorities should ask to get an increase in the minority quota. Thats more realistic then getting the law changed about President and PM. And once again I am against that law, and if it was up to me I would get rid of it while keeping the minority quota.

since you are a Muslim (hence beneficiary of the law), you'll always hold the view that it is better for non muslims.

But for non muslims, it is discriminatory and setting an upper limit above which no Muslim can excel regardless what qualities he or she might have.

The oppressor always thinks laws are justified and better for the people. It's normal human tendency.

 

[Giannis]

The religious "quota" is as big a straw man argument if ever was. The minorities in Pakistan's parliament have about the same influence as muslim welfare division heads get in the RSS or BJP.

What use is the "quota" if they can't get minority protection bills passed in the senate as it's going to be struck down by some Islamic cleric citing it's against islam.

Bill aiming to ban child marriages shot down

https://tribune.com.pk/story/1027742/settled-matter-bill-aiming-to-ban-child-marriages-shot-down

Senate panel rejects bill for minorities

https://tribune.com.pk/story/2265480/senate-panel-rejects-bill-for-minorities

The minorities in Pakistan would any day opt to ditch the special "quota" they get in the Pakistani parliament in exchange for the laws prevailing in the countries you have mentioned. Not because they want to become the President or Prime minister, which is not going to happen even if Pakistan becomes a secular state tomorrow. But to protect their rights more and stop forced conversions and get equal rights as muslims have in the country. But the "quota" seems to be a sad excuse of an argument that apologists for maintaining an islamic republic make.

Yeah it's just about as "useful" as India's 'reservation' system.

 

[cricketjoshila]

lol. The world sees India as a 3rd world country, no chair on the UNSC or any real influence in geo-politics. Indians only pretend to have concern for anyone in China, their cheering of state terrorism in Kashmir proves this.

The world isnt limited to pakistanis. Pakistan has zero leverage against India and that shows in Imran khan's rants.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

The religious "quota" is as big a straw man argument if ever was. The minorities in Pakistan's parliament have about the same influence as muslim welfare division heads get in the RSS or BJP.

What use is the "quota" if they can't get minority protection bills passed in the senate as it's going to be struck down by some Islamic cleric citing it's against islam.

Bill aiming to ban child marriages shot down

https://tribune.com.pk/story/1027742/settled-matter-bill-aiming-to-ban-child-marriages-shot-down

Senate panel rejects bill for minorities

https://tribune.com.pk/story/2265480/senate-panel-rejects-bill-for-minorities

The minorities in Pakistan would any day opt to ditch the special "quota" they get in the Pakistani parliament in exchange for the laws prevailing in the countries you have mentioned. Not because they want to become the President or Prime minister, which is not going to happen even if Pakistan becomes a secular state tomorrow. But to protect their rights more and stop forced conversions and get equal rights as muslims have in the country. But the "quota" seems to be a sad excuse of an argument that apologists for maintaining an islamic republic make.

The first article, what does it have to do with minorities? In Pakistan the marriage age is 18 for males, and 16 for females. How is that specific discrimination against minorities?

And for Hindus the marriage age is 18 for both genders.

However, the bill is widely acceptable for Hindus living in Pakistan because it relates to marriage, registration of marriage, separation and remarriage, with the minimum age of marriage set at 18 years for both boys and girls.

https://www.dawn.com/news/1315482

The second article, was a bill to protect minority rights. Here is a copy of it

http://www.senate.gov.pk/uploads/documents/1598276327_813.pdf

A quick read of that bill shows almost everything in is already on the books. The country needs better implementation of laws, not more laws.

The minorities in Pakistan would any day opt to ditch the special "quota" they get in the Pakistani parliament in exchange for the laws prevailing in the countries you have mentioned. Not because they want to become the President or Prime minister, which is not going to happen even if Pakistan becomes a secular state tomorrow. But to protect their rights more and stop forced conversions and get equal rights as muslims have in the country. But the "quota" seems to be a sad excuse of an argument that apologists for maintaining an islamic republic make.

The quota is the very reason that the govt was able to pass the Hindu marriage act. Its the reason as per the second article you shared that

a committee was already working to prevent the forced conversion of minorities as a Hindu had been made chairman of the National Commission for Minorities.

He added that a uniform curriculum was being introduced in the country and the education ministry had ensured the removal of “hate material” from textbooks.

The quota for minorities and the quota for women has had in my opinion a positive effect for both groups. It gives them power that they would not have otherwise. And i think it should be increased.

By trying to pass it off as insignificant, and by saying its no big deal if it goes, you are doing a disservice to the very group you are trying to protect.

 

[Itachi]

Yeah it's just about as "useful" as India's 'reservation' system.

The difference with Pakistan reservation is,

it doesn't set an upper limit.

Read reservation about different countries first and gather knowledge. You have a habit of making statements without prior knowledge. You also made a statement about North east India having close ties with East Asian countries against which I raise a question which you've avoided.