“What China says about their programs in Xinjiang, we accept it" : PM Imran Khan

[Gharib Aadmi]

since you are a Muslim (hence beneficiary of the law), you'll always hold the view that it is better for non muslims.

But for non muslims, it is discriminatory and setting an upper limit above which no Muslim can excel regardless what qualities he or she might have.

The oppressor always thinks laws are justified and better for the people. It's normal human tendency.

Read the post again. To make it easy I put it below.

And once again I am against that law, and if it was up to me I would get rid of it while keeping the minority quota.

since you are a Muslim (hence beneficiary of the law), you'll always hold the view that it is better for non muslims.

What benefit am i getting? My 0.0000000001% chance of being PM or President has slightly improved cause non Muslims are not legally allowed to be PM or President.

All i am trying to say is the minority quota is not insignificant. it gives minorities political power that they did not have otherwise.

 

[Itachi]

Read the post again. To make it easy I put it below.





What benefit am i getting? My 0.0000000001% chance of being PM or President has slightly improved cause non Muslims are not legally allowed to be PM or President.

All i am trying to say is the minority quota is not insignificant. it gives minorities political power that they did not have otherwise.

As I stated, you are a Muslim so you'll always feel the rule is justified. The bill to abolish the discrimination was rejected and that's a concerning sign for future.

 

[saeedhk]

As I stated, you are a Muslim so you'll always feel the rule is justified. The bill to abolish the discrimination was rejected and that's a concerning sign for future.

The minority protection bill was rejected because our lawmakers said non-Muslims enjoyed more rights than Muslims and non-Muslims were not being mistreated. Yes, they were serious when they said this.

There is no hope for the situation of minorities in Pakistan to change.

 

[street cricketer]

The first article, what does it have to do with minorities? In Pakistan the marriage age is 18 for males, and 16 for females. How is that specific discrimination against minorities?

And for Hindus the marriage age is 18 for both genders.



https://www.dawn.com/news/1315482

The second article, was a bill to protect minority rights. Here is a copy of it

http://www.senate.gov.pk/uploads/documents/1598276327_813.pdf

A quick read of that bill shows almost everything in is already on the books. The country needs better implementation of laws, not more laws.



The quota is the very reason that the govt was able to pass the Hindu marriage act. Its the reason as per the second article you shared that



The quota for minorities and the quota for women has had in my opinion a positive effect for both groups. It gives them power that they would not have otherwise. And i think it should be increased.

By trying to pass it off as insignificant, and by saying its no big deal if it goes, you are doing a disservice to the very group you are trying to protect.

You don't get it do you? Pakistani Hindus are not protesting that men in the hindu community abduct their daughters, they are protesting that men in the majority muslim community abduct their daughters and marry them after forced conversion. The "Hindu marriage act" is only useful if the perpetrators and the victims are hindus. What happens though is these underage hindu girls get abducted by goons, and get converted to Islam in some shrines by clerics who are notorious for forced conversions (like Mian Mithu) and so the girls become muslims, at which point "the Hindu marriage act" no longer applies to them. Later they marry those underage girls and courts sanction those marriages because apparently it is lawful for a girl to get married as long as she has had her first period according to shariah.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/ewelin...her-first-period-says-high-court-in-pakistan/

Forget about hindus, take the case of the 14 year old christian girl Maira Shahbaz who was a gospel singer from Madina town. Her parents accused one thrice married guy Nakash Tariq, who was 30 years older than the girl, of abducting and forcefully marrying their daughter who was just 14 years old. They provided certificates (Nadra and school leaving certificate) proving the age of the girl to be underage to the Pakistani high court in Lahore. But in the court, the girl said she had converted out of her own will and married Tariq. So guess what the Pakistani court did..It sent the girl with the guy accused of kidnapping the girl due to the testimony of the girl inspite of evidence showing that the girl was underage.

The high court’s verdict states that Maira’s family was denied custody because “she stated that she’s 18 years old, recited the ‘Kalma Tayyaba’ to prove she had embraced Islam without any duress, and married Nakash Tariq by choice.”

“The statement of Maria [sic] Shahbaz as well as her general appearance unambiguously show that she is a grown-up young lady who seems to have attained the age of puberty and who acknowledges Nakash Tariq as her lawfully wedded husband,” the verdict states.

Note the justification of the Lahore High court in the bolded part. It went by the "general appearance" of the girl who "seems to have" attained puberty. It didn't check the evidence produced by the girl's parents that she's underage.

Note how the high court goes to further favour the kidnapper's side rather than the parent's side below.

The verdict acknowledges that the judge dismissed evidence her family’s attorney provided that the minor could not have contracted marriage without the consent of her guardian and that the marriage certificate was fake.

“As far as proof of marriage is concerned, the other formalities can be ignored and simple acknowledgement of husband and wife regarding their Nikah [marriage] is sufficient to prove the same,” the verdict states. “In such circumstances, the mandatory requirement of presence of two witnesses can be ignored.”

https://www.eternitynews.com.au/wor...old-christian-girl-back-to-alleged-kidnapper/

Guess what happened afterwards?

Ten days later, the girl reunites with her family after escaping from her captors. She said she was raped and videotaped by her captors at gun point and threatened of releasing the tape if she didn't say she converted and married voluntarily out of her own will. They also threatened to kill her parents and relatives if she went against their words, so she testified in the high court that she was 18 years old despite being only 14 years and that she converted and married out of her own will to a thrice married guy with two children. The Pakistan high court then duly sent the girl to her captors without checking the age of the girl, from where she escaped afterwards.

https://www.ucanews.com/news/abduct...-girl-reunites-with-family-after-escape/89327

Latest news was that she feared for her life as she would be considered an apostate if she denounced islam and asked for asylum in the west.

https://www.secularism.org.uk/news/...girl-subjected-to-forced-marriage-in-pakistan

https://cruxnow.com/church-in-asia/...apped-and-forced-to-marry-seeks-asylum-in-uk/

This is just one case. There are many similar cases where the underage girls are transported to Punjab where she is converted and married to avoid Sindh's minimum age laws like the case of Mehek Kumari. When even the high courts themselves which are supposed to be impartial are heavily majoritarian in its judgements and motivated towards favouring conversion of girls to Islam no matter by what means, what hope do these minorities have with their fancy "quotas" in the parliament? Like I said, those quotas are the same as quotas for muslims in RSS.

 

[Bhaijaan]

Pakistan only wish they had Kashmir so they can add to their geographical area and make a lot of money through tourism goldmine that is Kashmir valley.

Otherwise, they do not give two boots to Muslims of the world and their sufferings howsoever they pretend to do. They are a big zero in my eyes as an Islamic nation because there's nothing Islamic about Pakistan.

They are no Saudi or Turkey.

Might hurt some people but I value my time and I like to keep it straight instead of going to and forth.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

You don't get it do you? Pakistani Hindus are not protesting that men in the hindu community abduct their daughters, they are protesting that men in the majority muslim community abduct their daughters and marry them after forced conversion. The "Hindu marriage act" is only useful if the perpetrators and the victims are hindus. What happens though is these underage hindu girls get abducted by goons, and get converted to Islam in some shrines by clerics who are notorious for forced conversions (like Mian Mithu) and so the girls become muslims, at which point "the Hindu marriage act" no longer applies to them. Later they marry those underage girls and courts sanction those marriages because apparently it is lawful for a girl to get married as long as she has had her first period according to shariah.

This is just one case. There are many similar cases where the underage girls are transported to Punjab where she is converted and married to avoid Sindh's minimum age laws like the case of Mehek Kumari. When even the high courts themselves which are supposed to be impartial are heavily majoritarian in its judgements and motivated towards favouring conversion of girls to Islam no matter by what means, what hope do these minorities have with their fancy "quotas" in the parliament? Like I said, those quotas are the same as quotas for muslims in RSS.

Those cases you showed point to judicial problems, not legislative problems. Even if a girl converts to Islam, in Pakistan the minimum age for a Muslim female to be married is 16. So if the courts allowed someone to get married at an age younger than that, than the court made a mistake. No need to bring in Sharia. 16 is the minimum age.

Anyway their was a study done by the Institute of Policy Studies in Pakistan, and they could not find any primary evidence to corroborate the claims of mass forced conversions. They could not find any evidence how these NGO's are coming up with statements like 1000 minority girls are converting to Islam every year.

https://www.ips.org.pk/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/Faith-Conversions-or-Forced-Conversions.pdf

In a dirt poor country like Pakistan their will be definitely be cases of forced marriage, but those are not restricted to non Muslims. This idea that their is a mass conspiracy in Pakistan to convert non Muslims, reeks of Love Jihad and Islamophobia. Not to mention in Pakistan the minority population has been stable since 1951, so Pakistanis if this was their intention have done a very bad job.

Almost everywhere in the world when a Muslim man marries a non Muslim female, she either converts to Islam or agrees to raise the children Muslim. So it wont be surprising if this is happening in Pakistan as well. If Pakistani men can get white women to convert to Islam in England, US, Australia, where they are a tiny minority, for sake of marriage, then it should not surprise anyone that in Pakistan where they are over 96% of the population they can do the same.

Those fancy quotas by the way are not restricted to parliament. They apply to jobs, universities as well. The people in Pakistan are not electing parties who hate minorities, so by working with the government the minority parliamentarians can improve the condition of their community.

 

[Last Monetarist]

If you are taking the words of your business associates and acquaintances from HK and China, what is stopping you to do the same in case of Kashmir and Palestine? Take the word from Indians and Israelis as they are more likely to be informed than you.

People that have never set a foot in China or Xinjiang aren't likely to be informed on the issue. These folks are happy to promote propaganda for the CCP and trample over basic decency out of delusional hero worship of the Prime Minister.

 

[street cricketer]

Those cases you showed point to judicial problems, not legislative problems. Even if a girl converts to Islam, in Pakistan the minimum age for a Muslim female to be married is 16. So if the courts allowed someone to get married at an age younger than that, than the court made a mistake. No need to bring in Sharia. 16 is the minimum age.

I did not bring in sharia, the Pakistani court did. The Pakistani court granted judgement that girls as young as 9 can marry as long as they have their first period according to shariah. The legislature is pointless if courts, which are supposed to uphold laws, actually is the culprit in bypassing those same laws.

Anyway their was a study done by the Institute of Policy Studies in Pakistan, and they could not find any primary evidence to corroborate the claims of mass forced conversions. They could not find any evidence how these NGO's are coming up with statements like 1000 minority girls are converting to Islam every year.

https://www.ips.org.pk/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/Faith-Conversions-or-Forced-Conversions.pdf

When courts themselves are biased, why do you expect people to take the "studies" of some institutes in Pakistan seriously.

In a dirt poor country like Pakistan their will be definitely be cases of forced marriage, but those are not restricted to non Muslims. This idea that their is a mass conspiracy in Pakistan to convert non Muslims, reeks of Love Jihad and Islamophobia. Not to mention in Pakistan the minority population has been stable since 1951, so Pakistanis if this was their intention have done a very bad job.

There is not a mass conspiracy by all hindus to kill muslims in India too. But lynchings nevertheless do happen and are quite common in the past few years. Some random study by some random institute in India refuting the same would not make it false. Guess what, the muslim population in India is actually growing at the fastest rate compared to other communities, doesn't make issues affecting muslims in India any less true.

Almost everywhere in the world when a Muslim man marries a non Muslim female, she either converts to Islam or agrees to raise the children Muslim. So it wont be surprising if this is happening in Pakistan as well. If Pakistani men can get white women to convert to Islam in England, US, Australia, where they are a tiny minority, for sake of marriage, then it should not surprise anyone that in Pakistan where they are over 96% of the population they can do the same.

A well educated or a well known Pakistani man like Usman Khawaja or Kumail Nanjiani getting an adult white woman to convert for marriage is one thing which is perfectly fine. A 40-50 year old Pakistani man, sometimes very poor too, already married with 2-3 kids, "marrying" 12-18 year old teen girls of minority communities with the help of islamist groups is not the same as the first case. It's more similar to the fringe Pakistanis who got caught in grooming cases of white adolescent girls in the UK, and not the other majority law abiding Pakistani citizens in the west. No amount of strawman arguments can equalise both.

Those fancy quotas by the way are not restricted to parliament. They apply to jobs, universities as well. The people in Pakistan are not electing parties who hate minorities, so by working with the government the minority parliamentarians can improve the condition of their community.

This is again a straw man argument. Pakistan is a right wing Islamic Republic and by default has right wing laws enshrined in its constitution. The biggest gripe of hindutvadis is that the muslims of the subcontinent got a country for their own religion but the hindus had to settle for a secular country and not a hindu state like Pakistan got an islamic republic. Why do you think the right wing hindutvadis hate the likes of Gandhi and Nehru the most? They feel they betrayed the hindu interests by creating a secular country while the muslims put the interests of Islam first while creating Pakistan.

So no, Pakistanis need not elect parties that hate minorities because it's already a right wing theocratic state. What the BJP/RSS is trying hard to turn India into is nothing but what the Muslim League turned Pakistan to way long back. India just enacted the beef ban, Pakistan has blasphemy laws enshrined in its constitution for a long time which are regularly used to target minorities and forget about asking to repeal those laws, even asking to see if those laws are applied correctly can get you killed in Pakistan as in the Salman Taseer incident. Ahmadis can be convicted for something as trivial as saying an islamic greeting, and Pakistani muslims have to sign a statement denouncing Ahmadis as kafirs in their passport, imagine if India had a provision something similar to it in its passport. So let's not talk about electing politicians who hate minorities when the entire constitution is built on that framework.

 

[IMMY69]

If you are taking the words of your business associates and acquaintances from HK and China, what is stopping you to do the same in case of Kashmir and Palestine? Take the word from Indians and Israelis as they are more likely to be informed than you.

and different news sources...

It's from talking to those on the ground and reading different sources to form an overall view.

Do you understand?

 

[OMB]

People that have never set a foot in China or Xinjiang aren't likely to be informed on the issue. These folks are happy to promote propaganda for the CCP and trample over basic decency out of delusional hero worship of the Prime Minister.

Would love to hear from you about your experience with/in China. Most people I meet are traders based in Dubai and they choose not to speak anything at all except work. Them and the Palestinians.

 

[OMB]

I did not bring in sharia, the Pakistani court did. The Pakistani court granted judgement that girls as young as 9 can marry as long as they have their first period according to shariah. The legislature is pointless if courts, which are supposed to uphold laws, actually is the culprit in bypassing those same laws.



When courts themselves are biased, why do you expect people to take the "studies" of some institutes in Pakistan seriously.



There is not a mass conspiracy by all hindus to kill muslims in India too. But lynchings nevertheless do happen and are quite common in the past few years. Some random study by some random institute in India refuting the same would not make it false. Guess what, the muslim population in India is actually growing at the fastest rate compared to other communities, doesn't make issues affecting muslims in India any less true.



A well educated or a well known Pakistani man like Usman Khawaja or Kumail Nanjiani getting an adult white woman to convert for marriage is one thing which is perfectly fine. A 40-50 year old Pakistani man, sometimes very poor too, already married with 2-3 kids, "marrying" 12-18 year old teen girls of minority communities with the help of islamist groups is not the same as the first case. It's more similar to the fringe Pakistanis who got caught in grooming cases of white adolescent girls in the UK, and not the other majority law abiding Pakistani citizens in the west. No amount of strawman arguments can equalise both.



This is again a straw man argument. Pakistan is a right wing Islamic Republic and by default has right wing laws enshrined in its constitution. The biggest gripe of hindutvadis is that the muslims of the subcontinent got a country for their own religion but the hindus had to settle for a secular country and not a hindu state like Pakistan got an islamic republic. Why do you think the right wing hindutvadis hate the likes of Gandhi and Nehru the most? They feel they betrayed the hindu interests by creating a secular country while the muslims put the interests of Islam first while creating Pakistan.

So no, Pakistanis need not elect parties that hate minorities because it's already a right wing theocratic state. What the BJP/RSS is trying hard to turn India into is nothing but what the Muslim League turned Pakistan to way long back. India just enacted the beef ban, Pakistan has blasphemy laws enshrined in its constitution for a long time which are regularly used to target minorities and forget about asking to repeal those laws, even asking to see if those laws are applied correctly can get you killed in Pakistan as in the Salman Taseer incident. Ahmadis can be convicted for something as trivial as saying an islamic greeting, and Pakistani muslims have to sign a statement denouncing Ahmadis as kafirs in their passport, imagine if India had a provision something similar to it in its passport. So let's not talk about electing politicians who hate minorities when the entire constitution is built on that framework.

I find it very very difficult to believe.

 

[street cricketer]

I find it very very difficult to believe.

https://www.dawn.com/news/1261622

 

[Mamoon]

)

Probably the most embarrassing statement he has ever made, and the competition for that award is immense.

The worst PM Pakistan has ever had. He has taken the country to new lows.

You would feel sorry for his worshippers but then you realize that they would defend anything and everything that he says.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

And most of the world leaders have ignored his non-stop whining about Modi being Hitler, RSS being Nazis and India committing genocide in Kashmir.

Heck, there are a bunch of Muslim countries that have given Modi their highest civilian awards!

https://www.jagranjosh.com/general-knowledge/narendra-modi-award-list-1561801667-1

People pay more heed to those who are consistent.

Pakistan has zero leverage against India, which is why his rants on India are ignored by most world leaders.

Begs...whines....blah blah blah. This sort of language just reveals your own highly agitated mind frames. When IK addresses world leaders he is putting them in the picture as part of his duty to represent his nation's view. That doesn't mean those same world leaders won't have their own national interests to look after, so even though they may well agree that Modi and RSS are Nazi equivalents, they are also a massive pliant market ready to be pumped. Like when a salesman sells an ice cream cone to a kiddy and tells mommy how pretty their ugly child is. It's the money which they are after, they know fine well what the kid really is.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

And most of the world leaders have ignored his non-stop whining about Modi being Hitler, RSS being Nazis and India committing genocide in Kashmir.

Heck, there are a bunch of Muslim countries that have given Modi their highest civilian awards!

https://www.jagranjosh.com/general-knowledge/narendra-modi-award-list-1561801667-1

People pay more heed to those who are consistent.

The world isnt limited to pakistanis. Pakistan has zero leverage against India and that shows in Imran khan's rants.

) The irony!

My advice would be to take an aspirin and calm down. IK will continue to address world leaders and bring to their attention any issues which he feels strengthen his hand. If he has no leverage, why do you continue ranting about it on a Pakistan cricket forum?

 

[Last Monetarist]

Would love to hear from you about your experience with/in China. Most people I meet are traders based in Dubai and they choose not to speak anything at all except work. Them and the Palestinians.

Ordinary Chinese people are either ignorant or don't choose to speak about the horrors because it's a taboo subject within China. Muslims are seen as alien for the simple reason that in Chinese culture, the idea of God or religion is generally ridiculed. Therefore, any atrocities that happen in Xinjiang or other places in the western provinces don't really evoke any emotion amongst the general public. Furthermore, the conditioning in that country through education and media is such that the authority of the party is absolute.

The atmosphere around mosques is suffocating due to the presence of security and intelligence personnel that don't bother to hide the fact that surveillance is universal. Muslims are routinely chosen for random questioning on ideology. Anyone that answers dubiously is detained. The concentration camps, slave labour, sterilizations, torture, forced conversions are an unfortunate reality in Xinjiang. I know several renewable energy companies in China that use slave labour in their factories in Xinjiang.

Imran Khan has proved again that he is a nasty, foolish, & self-serving politician just like all those that came before him. His supporters defending this bile are no better.

 

[SangasCoverDrive]

and different news sources...

It's from talking to those on the ground and reading different sources to form an overall view.

Do you understand?

So you are expecting Chinese sources to be true which did not even tell the world about Coronavirus when it was wrecking a havoc in November of last year? Same govt which killed the doctor who was the whistleblower of the virus. Same govt which refuses to believe that Tianmen Square incident or the Great leap of faith?

 

[IMMY69]

Ordinary Chinese people are either ignorant or don't choose to speak about the horrors because it's a taboo subject within China. Muslims are seen as alien for the simple reason that in Chinese culture, the idea of God or religion is generally ridiculed. Therefore, any atrocities that happen in Xinjiang or other places in the western provinces don't really evoke any emotion amongst the general public. Furthermore, the conditioning in that country through education and media is such that the authority of the party is absolute.

The atmosphere around mosques is suffocating due to the presence of security and intelligence personnel that don't bother to hide the fact that surveillance is universal. Muslims are routinely chosen for random questioning on ideology. Anyone that answers dubiously is detained. The concentration camps, slave labour, sterilizations, torture, forced conversions are an unfortunate reality in Xinjiang. I know several renewable energy companies in China that use slave labour in their factories in Xinjiang.

Imran Khan has proved again that he is a nasty, foolish, & self-serving politician just like all those that came before him. His supporters defending this bile are no better.

You can have a view that is in line with someone else, in this instance a politician, without being castigated.

Those that attack the opinions of others because they are so clouded from their hatred are the nasty, foolish self-serving ones.

 

[IMMY69]

So you are expecting Chinese sources to be true which did not even tell the world about Coronavirus when it was wrecking a havoc in November of last year? Same govt which killed the doctor who was the whistleblower of the virus. Same govt which refuses to believe that Tianmen Square incident or the Great leap of faith?

You got Chinese sources from my post?

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

And most of the world leaders have ignored his non-stop whining about Modi being Hitler, RSS being Nazis and India committing genocide in Kashmir.

Heck, there are a bunch of Muslim countries that have given Modi their highest civilian awards!

https://www.jagranjosh.com/general-knowledge/narendra-modi-award-list-1561801667-1

People pay more heed to those who are consistent.

So you are expecting Chinese sources to be true which did not even tell the world about Coronavirus when it was wrecking a havoc in November of last year? Same govt which killed the doctor who was the whistleblower of the virus. Same govt which refuses to believe that Tianmen Square incident or the Great leap of faith?

Who can tell what is true? Each world power has skin in the game and will spin whichever way benefits them, including certain neighbours who have nasty self serving politicians and their supporters.

 

[King_Kohli]

Pakistan’s Khan backs China on Uighurs, praises one-party system

Imran Khan repeats his country’s support for the Chinese government regarding its policies in Muslim-majority Xinjiang province.

Pakistani Prime Minister Imran Khan has repeated his country’s support for the Chinese government regarding its policies in the Muslim-majority Xinjiang province, while also praising the country’s one-party system as offering a better model for societies compared with electoral democracy.

Khan was speaking to members of the Chinese news media who were visiting Islamabad as part of the 100th anniversary celebrations of the Communist Party of China (CPC) on Thursday.

Rights groups accuse China of systematic and widespread “mass internment and torture amounting to crimes against humanity” against the Muslim population in its southwestern Xinjiang province.

In a report last month, Amnesty International termed the situation in Xinjiang “a dystopian hellscape”, citing dozens of witness accounts that detailed allegations of brainwashing, torture and an erasure of cultural identity.

But Khan, who has regularly called for international action against Islamophobia, particularly in European countries, said he was satisfied with the Chinese government’s denials of any rights abuses.

“Our interaction with Chinese officials, that version of what is happening in Xinjiang is completely different to the version of what we hear from the Western media and the Western governments,” he said on Thursday.

“Because we have our very strong relationship with China, and because we have a relationship based on trust, so we actually accept the Chinese version. What they say about their programmes in Xinjiang, we accept it.”

Pakistan shares a longstanding strategic relationship with its northeastern neighbour China, which has invested more than $60bn in the country through the China-Pakistan Economic Corridor (CPEC) project.

Khan also lauded the one-party system of governance in China, where the state is exclusively controlled by the Communist Party of China and there are no direct elections for major positions or the country’s parliament.

“The CPC is a unique model. Up until now, we were told that the best way for societies to improve themselves is the Western system of democracy,” said Khan.

“What the CPC has done is that it has brought this alternative model. And they have actually beaten all Western democracies in the way they have brought up merit in their society.”

Khan, who was elected to power in a general election in 2018, said electoral democracy “straight-jackets you” when it comes to reforms, and lauded the “flexibility” of the Chinese model.

“Up until now, the feeling was that electoral democracy is the best way where you get leadership based on merit, and then hold that leadership accountable. But what the CPC has done is that without that electoral democracy it has actually achieved that much better,” he said.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/7/2/pakistan-imran-khan-china-uighurs

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

So what he said was that he accepted that Chinese version of events in that country over other superpowers version because Pakistan has established trust with the Chinese over a long period of time. This is not that outlandish, there are various journalists from those same countries who also are on record as saying that the allegations against China are politically motivated.

 

[IMMY69]

So what he said was that he accepted that Chinese version of events in that country over other superpowers version because Pakistan has established trust with the Chinese over a long period of time. This is not that outlandish, there are various journalists from those same countries who also are on record as saying that the allegations against China are politically motivated.

Initially I put it down to niavity but I think it's actually dishonest the way some posters are twisting things

 

[IMMY69]

Pakistan’s Khan backs China on Uighurs, praises one-party system

Imran Khan repeats his country’s support for the Chinese government regarding its policies in Muslim-majority Xinjiang province.

Pakistani Prime Minister Imran Khan has repeated his country’s support for the Chinese government regarding its policies in the Muslim-majority Xinjiang province, while also praising the country’s one-party system as offering a better model for societies compared with electoral democracy.

Khan was speaking to members of the Chinese news media who were visiting Islamabad as part of the 100th anniversary celebrations of the Communist Party of China (CPC) on Thursday.

Rights groups accuse China of systematic and widespread “mass internment and torture amounting to crimes against humanity” against the Muslim population in its southwestern Xinjiang province.

In a report last month, Amnesty International termed the situation in Xinjiang “a dystopian hellscape”, citing dozens of witness accounts that detailed allegations of brainwashing, torture and an erasure of cultural identity.

But Khan, who has regularly called for international action against Islamophobia, particularly in European countries, said he was satisfied with the Chinese government’s denials of any rights abuses.

“Our interaction with Chinese officials, that version of what is happening in Xinjiang is completely different to the version of what we hear from the Western media and the Western governments,” he said on Thursday.

“Because we have our very strong relationship with China, and because we have a relationship based on trust, so we actually accept the Chinese version. What they say about their programmes in Xinjiang, we accept it.”

Pakistan shares a longstanding strategic relationship with its northeastern neighbour China, which has invested more than $60bn in the country through the China-Pakistan Economic Corridor (CPEC) project.

Khan also lauded the one-party system of governance in China, where the state is exclusively controlled by the Communist Party of China and there are no direct elections for major positions or the country’s parliament.

“The CPC is a unique model. Up until now, we were told that the best way for societies to improve themselves is the Western system of democracy,” said Khan.

“What the CPC has done is that it has brought this alternative model. And they have actually beaten all Western democracies in the way they have brought up merit in their society.”

Khan, who was elected to power in a general election in 2018, said electoral democracy “straight-jackets you” when it comes to reforms, and lauded the “flexibility” of the Chinese model.

“Up until now, the feeling was that electoral democracy is the best way where you get leadership based on merit, and then hold that leadership accountable. But what the CPC has done is that without that electoral democracy it has actually achieved that much better,” he said.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/7/2/pakistan-imran-khan-china-uighurs

He hasn't done that though.
He says he believes what the Chinese have told him.

There is a vast difference

 

[King_Kohli]

Guys please stick to the topic.

 

[Local.Dada]

He hasn't done that though.
He says he believes what the Chinese have told him.

There is a vast difference

The Chinese told him “it’s ok there is no problem”

And Imran believed it

)

Not sure if that makes him look any better. Had he said that he personally fact checked or he has evidence of no persecution or some blatant lie like that I would have had more respect because that’s what shrewd politicians and diplomats do. They lie but make it sound beautiful. This sounds like a justification given by a 3rd grader lol.

 

[IMMY69]

The Chinese told him “it’s ok there is no problem”

And Imran believed it

)

Not sure if that makes him look any better. Had he said that he personally fact checked or he has evidence of no persecution or some blatant lie like that I would have had more respect because that’s what shrewd politicians and diplomats do. They lie but make it sound beautiful. This sounds like a justification given by a 3rd grader lol.

So?
Is he being naive or does he have inside intel which you and I not privy to?
Or is it that he is a conniving selfish man who doesn't care about innocent lives?

 

[Local.Dada]

We would also care more Taxila then Stonehenge, we would care more about Mohenjo-daro then Babylon, we should do a better job in promoting the Hindu history of the region as thats excluded.

However the top 3 Muslim religious sites, will always be more important than any religious site in Pakistan. Whether its a mosque, dargah, mandir, gurdwara, etc.

$50 bucks says you have no clue what Takashashila (Taxila) was or what the significance of that place was. Without googling of course


First you start of with Indian army official policy of rape and genocide in Kashmir. When you get called out you say “you didn’t call all Indian army folks as rapists”

You talk about how Pakistan Muslims care more about foreign Muslims in Palestine over Pakistani citizens from non-Muslim backgrounds but then when called out again beat around the bush. Ok let’s take that as the truth then the premise of this thread is atrocities of China on their Muslims, so now Pakistan doesn’t care for them because they have no cultural affiliation. Am I the only one seeing conflict and irony here?

Anyways you seem to form your opinions on here say at a kitty party than actual tangible information. Not originating from Pakistan of course.

 

[Local.Dada]

So?
Is he being naive or does he have inside intel which you and I not privy to?
Or is it that he is a conniving selfish man who doesn't care about innocent lives?

As a politician it’s ok to be conniving and selfish. As I said can’t speak for others but personally don’t care for the uyghurs. Obviously don’t want any innocent to be killed but based on my observations, poor Muslim minorities even in advanced countries generally for whatever reason are usually perfect target for recruitments by radical groups be it in US Uk or India and Africa. So I am sure China has their reasons. What people are pointing out is the hypocrisy.

 

[IMMY69]

As a politician it’s ok to be conniving and selfish. As I said can’t speak for others but personally don’t care for the uyghurs. Obviously don’t want any innocent to be killed but based on my observations, poor Muslim minorities even in advanced countries generally for whatever reason are usually perfect target for recruitments by radical groups be it in US Uk or India and Africa. So I am sure China has their reasons. What people are pointing out is the hypocrisy.

Well if you're referring to Kashmir, then why not let the people of Kashmir have their plebiscite?

 

[Last Monetarist]

So what he said was that he accepted that Chinese version of events in that country over other superpowers version because Pakistan has established trust with the Chinese over a long period of time. This is not that outlandish, there are various journalists from those same countries who also are on record as saying that the allegations against China are politically motivated.

It's not about trust or lack thereof, it's blatant conflict of interest because China is bankrolling the country's economy. I don't expect the PM to take the Chinese to task with his hands tied behind his back, he needs to choose his battles wisely as Pakistan is already isolated geopolitically. However, he has no real need to spew the Chinese Communist Party's manifesto to the wider world. There are only two reasons he can do that: a. he is disingenuous or b. he is intellectually challenged.

I have no real reason to criticize the Prime Minister or his government, I have no real skin in that game, but as someone that lived in China for several years, having come across first-hand the horrific use of muslim slave labour in factories, talking and learning about the experience of Xinjiang muslims from Chinese friends, I'm not comfortable letting people write ignorant & insidious rubbish out of allegiance to the Prime Minister and his politics.

Me or anyone else writing opinions on this cricket forum is utterly useless at the end of the day, but often an emotional rant is all that is left for us folks with no power to impact realpolitik.

 

[Local.Dada]

Well if you're referring to Kashmir, then why not let the people of Kashmir have their plebiscite?

Is that what you got from my post? I am referring to extremism and radicalism. I am in fact on your side when it comes to saying it’s ok for China to crack down against their insurgents and radicals. I am only questioning the hypocrisy as to why IK can’t give the same benefit of doubt to Israel or France. India I can understand it’s a political issue anyways.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

$50 bucks says you have no clue what Takashashila (Taxila) was or what the significance of that place was. Without googling of course


First you start of with Indian army official policy of rape and genocide in Kashmir. When you get called out you say “you didn’t call all Indian army folks as rapists”

You talk about how Pakistan Muslims care more about foreign Muslims in Palestine over Pakistani citizens from non-Muslim backgrounds but then when called out again beat around the bush. Ok let’s take that as the truth then the premise of this thread is atrocities of China on their Muslims, so now Pakistan doesn’t care for them because they have no cultural affiliation. Am I the only one seeing conflict and irony here?

Anyways you seem to form your opinions on here say at a kitty party than actual tangible information. Not originating from Pakistan of course.

No im sure your fellow Hindutva types would also see it as conflict and irony. You can also add the far left liberal Muslims.

Let me try one last time. Pakistanis dont have cultural affiliation with Chinese Muslims. Which is why it does not get that much coverage. Same with other non subcontinent Muslims who are suffering. Follow so far?


Palestine, is a holy land for Muslims. Majority of Pakistanis are Muslims. So they will care about the conflict there. Get it?

Pakistanis are not Hindu/Sikh, so their holy site dont have much significance for Pakistanis, who are majority Muslim. We just dont care about those sites. This does not mean we dont care for non Muslim Pakistanis, we just dont view their religious sites a having importance for us. Understand?

Also you are not doing Muslims a favor by caring about dargahs, and mosques in India. And if you go to a dargah, that does not mean we need to go a mandir and do puja. Or do we?

Also I would wager 50 Bitcoin, that you dont know that Pakistanis feel very differently about Buddhism, and IVC civilization then they do about Hinduism/Sikhisim. And i understand per Hindutva those are part of Sanatan Dharma, but we dont feel that way. This is why Pakistan has hundreds of things named after IVC and Gandhara.

Ultimately you have difficulty in accepting that majority of Pakistani Muslims, would think very differently about religion and kinship then you would.

 

[SangasCoverDrive]

No im sure your fellow Hindutva types would also see it as conflict and irony. You can also add the far left liberal Muslims.

Let me try one last time. Pakistanis dont have cultural affiliation with Chinese Muslims. Which is why it does not get that much coverage. Same with other non subcontinent Muslims who are suffering. Follow so far?


Palestine, is a holy land for Muslims. Majority of Pakistanis are Muslims. So they will care about the conflict there. Get it?

Pakistanis are not Hindu/Sikh, so their holy site dont have much significance for Pakistanis, who are majority Muslim. We just dont care about those sites. This does not mean we dont care for non Muslim Pakistanis, we just dont view their religious sites a having importance for us. Understand?

Also you are not doing Muslims a favor by caring about dargahs, and mosques in India. And if you go to a dargah, that does not mean we need to go a mandir and do puja. Or do we?

Also I would wager 50 Bitcoin, that you dont know that Pakistanis feel very differently about Buddhism, and IVC civilization then they do about Hinduism/Sikhisim. And i understand per Hindutva those are part of Sanatan Dharma, but we dont feel that way. This is why Pakistan has hundreds of things named after IVC and Gandhara.

Ultimately you have difficulty in accepting that majority of Pakistani Muslims, would think very differently about religion and kinship then you would.

So using your logic, Jews are right to support the state of Israel as it is holy for them?

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

It's not about trust or lack thereof, it's blatant conflict of interest because China is bankrolling the country's economy. I don't expect the PM to take the Chinese to task with his hands tied behind his back, he needs to choose his battles wisely as Pakistan is already isolated geopolitically. However, he has no real need to spew the Chinese Communist Party's manifesto to the wider world. There are only two reasons he can do that: a. he is disingenuous or b. he is intellectually challenged.

I have no real reason to criticize the Prime Minister or his government, I have no real skin in that game, but as someone that lived in China for several years, having come across first-hand the horrific use of muslim slave labour in factories, talking and learning about the experience of Xinjiang muslims from Chinese friends, I'm not comfortable letting people write ignorant & insidious rubbish out of allegiance to the Prime Minister and his politics.

Me or anyone else writing opinions on this cricket forum is utterly useless at the end of the day, but often an emotional rant is all that is left for us folks with no power to impact realpolitik.

Is Myanmar bankrolling the country? We dont talk about the Rohingya do we? Is Philippines bankrolling the contry? Do we talk about that?

Their are a lot of people who are suffering i the world. However we have a responsibility to the citizens of Pakistan, and after that to the people of Kashmir. We are not responsible for anyone else. As unfortunate as the situation of Uyghurs is, ultimately its their problem, not ours.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

So using your logic, Jews are right to support the state of Israel as it is holy for them?

Yep, and they do. Or do you disagree? And are suggesting that most Jews dont care for Israel?

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

It's not about trust or lack thereof, it's blatant conflict of interest because China is bankrolling the country's economy. I don't expect the PM to take the Chinese to task with his hands tied behind his back, he needs to choose his battles wisely as Pakistan is already isolated geopolitically. However, he has no real need to spew the Chinese Communist Party's manifesto to the wider world. There are only two reasons he can do that: a. he is disingenuous or b. he is intellectually challenged.

I have no real reason to criticize the Prime Minister or his government, I have no real skin in that game, but as someone that lived in China for several years, having come across first-hand the horrific use of muslim slave labour in factories, talking and learning about the experience of Xinjiang muslims from Chinese friends, I'm not comfortable letting people write ignorant & insidious rubbish out of allegiance to the Prime Minister and his politics.

Me or anyone else writing opinions on this cricket forum is utterly useless at the end of the day, but often an emotional rant is all that is left for us folks with no power to impact realpolitik.

He hasn't spewed any Communist manifesto, he's basically said other countries have different values to western democracy and for them that works. He's said that Pakistan has a longstanding and trust based relationship with China and thus he is inclined to believe them over other countries who have their own interests which may conflict with Pakistan's.

I am sure there are lots of people with personal experience inside China, and I am also sure they will all tell varying stories based on their own inclinations. Imran's job is to look to progress relations with whichever country will provide long term value for Pakistan.

 

[Last Monetarist]

Is Myanmar bankrolling the country? We dont talk about the Rohingya do we? Is Philippines bankrolling the contry? Do we talk about that?

Their are a lot of people who are suffering i the world. However we have a responsibility to the citizens of Pakistan, and after that to the people of Kashmir. We are not responsible for anyone else. As unfortunate as the situation of Uyghurs is, ultimately its their problem, not ours.

I don't really have an issue with such pragmatism, there's too much nuance involved in geopolitics to start policing all evil.

However, the holier than thou attitude and blatant hypocrisy is something that I do have a problem with. There was no need for Imran Khan to stamp all over the existential rights of muslims in China. Kicking a poor man when he is down is hardly the mark of an honourable man.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Is Myanmar bankrolling the country? We dont talk about the Rohingya do we? Is Philippines bankrolling the contry? Do we talk about that?

Their are a lot of people who are suffering i the world. However we have a responsibility to the citizens of Pakistan, and after that to the people of Kashmir. We are not responsible for anyone else. As unfortunate as the situation of Uyghurs is, ultimately its their problem, not ours.

Ironically many of the same people on this thread who are barking loudly about Uighur are strangely silent when it comes to Mayanmar.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] is right.

This Immy bhai is a total fraud.

He makes even Modi look like a genius.

Even Modi.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] is right.

This Immy bhai is a total fraud.

He makes even Modi look like a genius.

Even Modi.

You and Mamoon both like and respect Modi more. I think that says it all.

Pakistanis who have some vision of a better future will trust Imran steer the right course above the crooks and sellouts from the established parties.

 

[PetroDollars]

You and Mamoon both like and respect Modi more. I think that says it all.

Pakistanis who have some vision of a better future will trust Imran steer the right course above the crooks and sellouts from the established parties.

Any pakistani with vision can see IK and modi, 2 sides of the same coin. A rusty one too.

 

[Itachi]

Initially I put it down to niavity but I think it's actually dishonest the way some posters are twisting things

everyone can put their opinion here. just because that doesn't align with yours, doesn't mean they are dishonest. Learn to interact in a online discussion platform and put arguments forward in favor of your claims and the opposition will put forward theirs. That's how a mature poster provides insights.

 

[Itachi]

You and Mamoon both like and respect Modi more. I think that says it all.

Pakistanis who have some vision of a better future will trust Imran steer the right course above the crooks and sellouts from the established parties.

In my opinion, brit Pakistanis won't be affected by policy of IK and hence, for or against, in practical world, they have nothing to lose.

But same can not be said for resident Pakistanis. They will be more aware of the ground reality and will be directly affected by policies. Which gives them more gravity than opinions of brit ones.

 

[Balthazar]

Poor Uighurs. They should just abandon their religion and assimilate with Chinese. They don't stand a chance. Your religion is not worth your sufferings and humiliation.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

You and Mamoon both like and respect Modi more. I think that says it all.

Pakistanis who have some vision of a better future will trust Imran steer the right course above the crooks and sellouts from the established parties.

If you think I like and respect Modi, you dont know me at all.

As for the second sentence, just like CPEC right? I remember Pakistanis used to write pages and pages about how its the next big thing even though there were a lot of concerns about it.

 

[Devadwal]

Paisa bolta hai

 

[saeedhk]

Please do not mention Modi and Imran in the same sentence.

Modi is a smart, astute, strong and competent leader who sticks to his principles come what may. On the other hand, Imran is a delusional, coward, incompetent, and gimmicky leader who takes a U-turn every second.

 

[Mamoon]

The worst PM in Pakistan history by some distance.

Destroyed the economy, destroyed the middle and lower-class, created power shortages, took jobs from the youth and continues to embarrass Pakistan on international forums.

He has also worsened Pakistan’s image as a nation that sympathizes with extremism thanks to his apologist statements and pathetic views on rape and harassment.

He even called OBL a shaheed.

He has failed to stand up and fight for the minorities in Pakistan but will poke his name in every country except his bosses in Beijing.

He has made it very clear that he does not have the courage to confront China. This is why the world does not take his fake humanitarian act seriously.

On the India front, he has been humiliated because all his pleas on Kashmir have been ignored even by Muslim leaders. They have shown him his lack of importance.

As far relations with India are concerned, he will forever be remembered as the PM who could do nothing when India revoked Kashmir’s special status.

He thought being a PM would be like captaining a cricket team, and the brutal reality-check has had a deep psychological impact on him.

He has no control over what he says and does these days. He is unfit to be a PM and needs help.

The fluke World Cup proved to be very costly indeed.

How I wish it didn’t rain in Adelaide when Pakistan were bundled for 74 against England.

 

[IMMY69]

So every thread is now an IK / Pakistan bashin thread?

Don't we have like a fizz ilium of those threads already?

 

[Itachi]

So every thread is now an IK / Pakistan bashin thread?

Don't we have like a fizz ilium of those threads already?

So no one should criticize IK?

 

[Mamoon]

So every thread is now an IK / Pakistan bashin thread?

Don't we have like a fizz ilium of those threads already?

Take a look at the topic sentence of the thread. It is the easily the most embarrassing and weak statement Imran has made as PM, and the competition is intense.

What did you expect in this thread? Praise, and for what?

 

[saeedhk]

HBO Interviewer: What are your comments about genocide going on in China?

Imran Khan: Look, I am more interested in what happens within out borders. Look at Kashmir. Why is the world silent about Palestine?

Can somebody tell our PM that Palestine is not in Pakistan.

 

[Rajdeep]

I have limited knowledge on Pakistan politics but the impression I get is that Imran interferes too much in the affair of other countries. Someone should remind him he is the PM of Pakistan and not some G7 countries. He is not a global leader like Biden, Boris, Putin etc. to focus on worlds cause. Pakistan has hundreds of issues and he should focus on Pakistani citizens who voted for him rather than poking his nose in Kashmir, Palestine or any other muslim majority countries.

 

[Mamoon]

I have limited knowledge on Pakistan politics but the impression I get is that Imran interferes too much in the affair of other countries. Someone should remind him he is the PM of Pakistan and not some G7 countries. He is not a global leader like Biden, Boris, Putin etc. to focus on worlds cause. Pakistan has hundreds of issues and he should focus on Pakistani citizens who voted for him rather than poking his nose in Kashmir, Palestine or any other muslim majority countries.

This is precisely why he waffles about other countries. He knows he has badly failed to deliver as a PM of Pakistan and uses the affairs of other countries to distract people from the domestic issues.

 

[IMMY69]

So no one should criticize IK?

Why not discuss the actual issue?
Is there merit in what he says?

Some people said he is happy for the genocide whereas he never actually said that.

 

[Itachi]

Why not discuss the actual issue?
Is there merit in what he says?

Some people said he is happy for the genocide whereas he never actually said that.

Lets talk about the subject.

Lets forget about western media whom you alleged to be anti China and also forget about Chinese news sources which will cover the Chinese propaganda. Since both exists, let's call a neutral ground.

Now, On what ground did IK believe what China said?

 

[saeedhk]

Here is the much-hailed HBO interview. Imran does a lot of mental gymnastics when asked about China. He basically exposed himself by saying I cannot criticise China because they pay us. ‘Absolutely not’ was lapped up by social media but they cleverly omitted this part where Imran stutters and palpitates when asked about China.

 

[IMMY69]

Lets talk about the subject.

Lets forget about western media whom you alleged to be anti China and also forget about Chinese news sources which will cover the Chinese propaganda. Since both exists, let's call a neutral ground.

Now, On what ground did IK believe what China said?

I would love to have this debate.
In fact it will be less of a debat and more an education, hopefully you will educate me!

At the moment I am out and about getting ready for tonight's big game and largely on my mobile.
So this may have to wait.

However, as a starter I would like to refer to a Financial Times article of 2017. I will try and find it and post it here.

In the words of Arnnie, I'll be back

 

[IMMY69]

Also a similar article in the same year in Reuters

https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN1840UP

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

HBO Interviewer: What are your comments about genocide going on in China?

Imran Khan: Look, I am more interested in what happens within out borders. Look at Kashmir. Why is the world silent about Palestine? ����

Can somebody tell our PM that Palestine is not in Pakistan.

Can we have a quote please to show this is what he said?




( smilies included to keep in theme with your posts)

 

[PetroDollars]

Can we have a quote please to show this is what he said?




( smilies included to keep in theme with your posts)

The interview went viral, thats about what he said, no defending it unless you worship him

 

[Napa]

Khan also lauded the one-party system of governance in China, where the state is exclusively controlled by the Communist Party of China and there are no direct elections for major positions or the country’s parliament.

“The CPC is a unique model. Up until now, we were told that the best way for societies to improve themselves is the Western system of democracy,” said Khan.

“What the CPC has done is that it has brought this alternative model. And they have actually beaten all Western democracies in the way they have brought up merit in their society.”

IK is quite delusional. He doesn't realize that more than one-party, China is one-ideology. It is the ideology of (fake) communism peddled by CPC to justify their power. And that means they tolerate no other ideology, including any religion. Hence their ruthless suppression of Islam.

Does IK believe that having a one-party state that suppresses religion will happen in Pakistan, with him as the head of that party? If wishes were horses...

 

[Napa]

This is precisely why he waffles about other countries. He knows he has badly failed to deliver as a PM of Pakistan and uses the affairs of other countries to distract people from the domestic issues.

IK is in a bind. He has not been able to advance Pakistan's economy which requires the development of modern industries. There has been exactly zero progress on that front during his tenure.

To develop modern industries it is necessary to kick the Army out of the economy and domestic affairs. Not only doesn't he have the power to do that, not sure if he even realizes the need for that.

Having made zero progress in improving the economy of his own country, all that is left for him to do is rant about Modi, deny Uighur persecution, praise China's lack of democracy and so on...

 

[Lego20]

Pakistan only wish they had Kashmir so they can add to their geographical area and make a lot of money through tourism goldmine that is Kashmir valley.

Nope - water and connectivity with China.

 

[Varun]

Kudos to Imran Khan for being honest. Every country has its price and China is paying it to Pakistan handsomely.

Nobody expects Pakistan to liberate any territory anyway - be it Kashmir, Xinjiang, Palestine, Arakan or wherever else. Their track record since becoming a country has them losing more territory than they have gained - of their own at that.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

The interview went viral, thats about what he said, no defending it unless you worship him

I asked for a quote. Is that so hard to provide?

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

IK is in a bind. He has not been able to advance Pakistan's economy which requires the development of modern industries. There has been exactly zero progress on that front during his tenure.

To develop modern industries it is necessary to kick the Army out of the economy and domestic affairs. Not only doesn't he have the power to do that, not sure if he even realizes the need for that.

Having made zero progress in improving the economy of his own country, all that is left for him to do is rant about Modi, deny Uighur persecution, praise China's lack of democracy and so on...

Pakistan may well be able to modernise their industries due to their common interests with China. There certainly seems to be a lot more chance of that than when they were part of the useless talking shop SAARC.

 

[PetroDollars]

I asked for a quote. Is that so hard to provide?

The quote was in the thread you made a reply to, to saeedshk posts, how hard is it to read and spot it in a post of 5 lines.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

He has made it very clear that he does not have the courage to confront China. This is why the world does not take his fake humanitarian act seriously.

Should Pakistan and other countries take Western countries humanitarian act seriously? One of many examples, they attacked Libya as a humanitarian intervention. Should Pakistanis and others believe that?

If its ok for Western countries to pretend to care about humanitarian rights, when it serves their interests, why cant Pakistan?

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

Poor Uighurs. They should just abandon their religion and assimilate with Chinese. They don't stand a chance. Your religion is not worth your sufferings and humiliation.

Would you give the same advise to Pakistani Hindus and other non Muslims Pakistanis? To assimilate with Pakistani Muslims.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

I have limited knowledge on Pakistan politics but the impression I get is that Imran interferes too much in the affair of other countries. Someone should remind him he is the PM of Pakistan and not some G7 countries. He is not a global leader like Biden, Boris, Putin etc. to focus on worlds cause. Pakistan has hundreds of issues and he should focus on Pakistani citizens who voted for him rather than poking his nose in Kashmir, Palestine or any other muslim majority countries.

To the people of Pakistan, Kashmir is not part of another country. Its a part of Pakistan, those are our own people. Every leader of Pakistan in the past, present, and future, will talk about Kashmir.

 

[Bewal Express]

IA the Chinese will get their comeuppance for their evil treatment of Uigurs. Like all oppressors they will fail.

 

[Mamoon]

Should Pakistan and other countries take Western countries humanitarian act seriously? One of many examples, they attacked Libya as a humanitarian intervention. Should Pakistanis and others believe that?

If its ok for Western countries to pretend to care about humanitarian rights, when it serves their interests, why cant Pakistan?

You cannot compare Pakistan with the West. Pakistan is weak with no leverage. It makes no difference to the West if Pakistan takes them seriously or not. In fact, Pakistan is in no position to not take the West seriously.

On the contrary, Pakistan is attempting to repair its embarrassing reputation. It however cannot repair its reputation without leading by example, because empty words and tweets mean nothing.

And Pakistan’s casual approach towards the Chinese atrocities and the delusional denial fueled by the leverage China enjoys on Pakistan is not an illustration of leading by example.

The plight of the Muslims in Xinjiang China is Pakistan’s kryptonite. All the the speeches and the statements on Kashmir and Palestine and elsewhere are neutralized because we do not have the cojones to confront our Chinese masters, and quite frankly, this humiliation is exactly what we deserve.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

You cannot compare Pakistan with the West. Pakistan is weak with no leverage. It makes no difference to the West if Pakistan takes them seriously or not. In fact, Pakistan is in no position to not take the West seriously.

Thier is a saying that i think applies here:

If you owe the bank $100 that's your problem. If you owe the bank $100 million, that's the bank's problem.

To apply this to Pakistan, if you are a failed stated that's your problem. If you are a failed state with nukes, then that's the worlds problem. Pakistan is too nuclear to fail. That is the leverage.

And Pakistan’s casual approach towards the Chinese atrocities and the delusional denial fueled by the leverage China enjoys on Pakistan is not an illustration of leading by example.

The plight of the Muslims in Xinjiang China is Pakistan’s kryptonite. All the the speeches and the statements on Kashmir and Palestine and elsewhere are neutralized because we do not have the cojones to confront our Chinese masters, and quite frankly, this humiliation is exactly what we deserve.

What leverage does Myanmar, Sudan, Philippines, have on Pakistan? Muslims their are suffering as well.

Same way other Muslims dont care about Kashmir, and subcontinent Muslims, Pakistan does not have to care about the suffering of other Muslims at the expense of national interests. As unfortunate as their situation might be, its their problem.

Also its not like the west will do anything on Kashmir anyway. Like if Pakistan was consistent, they called out China, do you really think the west would help Kashmiris? I dont think so.

 

[Rajdeep]

To the people of Pakistan, Kashmir is not part of another country. Its a part of Pakistan, those are our own people. Every leader of Pakistan in the past, present, and future, will talk about Kashmir.

But its not and that is the point. I dont agree though that entire Pakistan population is that much naive. Pretty sure there are some mature people there.

What do you mean they believe Kashmir is in Pakistan? Can they go travel to Kashmir without Indian visa? Imran need to focus more on Pakistani people that voted for him and work towards the development of mainland Pakistan.

But yeah...its just my observation as an outsider. Apart from that Imran is free to keep on talking about Kashmir.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

The quote was in the thread you made a reply to, to saeedshk posts, how hard is it to read and spot it in a post of 5 lines.

That wasn't a quote, that was his spin on it, which I am not about to take at face value given his posting history.

 

[Local.Dada]

To the people of Pakistan, Kashmir is not part of another country. Its a part of Pakistan, those are our own people. Every leader of Pakistan in the past, present, and future, will talk about Kashmir.

This is where it gets confusing. The so called “peaceful” Kashmiri protestors seem to want “Azaad Kashmir” an independent country. Pakistan calls it’s side of the Kashmir as “Azaad Kashmir” with its own PM while the Indian narrative is it is “POK”.

On the Indian side there is total clarity that Kashmir belongs to India and Pakistan calls it “IOK” which is fair from their perspective.

Now is Pakistan goal of having Kashmir as another state or giving freedom to Kashmiris? I am still not
clear.

Anyway for now Modi has made one part of it absolutely clear with removal of article 370.
Good or bad it’s great to see someone with the guts to end a debate from one side.

Pakistan’s narrative seems confusing. If India has stolen it’s territory then there should be retaliation instead of Kashmir hour etc.

Now before someone says how Pakistan humiliated Abhinandan and defeated India, let’s believe that narrative as the whole truth for a second. Our pilot was returned back to us in intact with a procession and sure Pakistanis got some internet memes and online points while Modi on the other hand as an aftermath repealed and put the nail in the Kashmir issue for once and for all. So not sure who is at loss.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

But its not and that is the point. I dont agree though that entire Pakistan population is that much naive. Pretty sure there are some mature people there.

What do you mean they believe Kashmir is in Pakistan? Can they go travel to Kashmir without Indian visa? Imran need to focus more on Pakistani people that voted for him and work towards the development of mainland Pakistan.

But yeah...its just my observation as an outsider. Apart from that Imran is free to keep on talking about Kashmir.

They believe that Kashmirs are Pakistanis, because they feel if Kashmirs were given a choice they would choose to be part of Pakistan, and that the land is occupied by India. Same way Indians believe that the portion of Kashmir that Pakistan administers is occupied by Pakistan. Though i think most Indians realize that close to zero percent of people in portion of Kashmir administered by Pakistan want to join India.

? Imran need to focus more on Pakistani people that voted for him and work towards the development of mainland Pakistan.

But yeah...its just my observation as an outsider. Apart from that Imran is free to keep on talking about Kashmir.

Not mutually exclusive to talk about Kashmir and work on development of Pakistan.

 

[Local.Dada]

To apply this to Pakistan, if you are a failed stated that's your problem. If you are a failed state with nukes, then that's the worlds problem. Pakistan is too nuclear to fail. That is the leverage.

The nuclear leverage that Pakistan has is not because of the state itself. There is a fear that these nukes can be easily accessible to the extreme elements which will be bad news not just for India or USA but to the entire world.

From a state perspective those nukes are pretty useless and that applies to India as well because unless there is an extreme situation, no country will use its nukes that includes USA and China and for sure not as a first strike