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14/4 in the powerplay against New Zealand in first T20I! I thought Pakistan were to become world beaters after dropping Mohammad Rizwan and Babar Azam

Should Pakistan stick with the Rizwan-Babar in T20Is or focus on developing the next generation?

  • Total voters
    67
mominsaigol said:
Rome wasn’t built in a day.

Rome wasnt built off the banks of donkeys either.

You need players with techniques or are willing to develop techniques and have the attitude to play attacking cricket in order to become a better unit.

This logic applies to someone like saim ayub who had fundamentals in place despite early failures. This logic doesn't apply to Muhammad haris for obvious reasons.
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Good post.

Throw darts and some will stick - is what the PCB are doing since last 40 years.
 
mikeypbadana86 said:
I remember few instances where india under dhoni in t20's was bundled out for less than 100. Stay patient with the young team.
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Pak fans and media have no patience. They lack cricketing knowledge and want instant results. Identify players and tell them to play with intent. Take out fear of failure and u have a chance. Chopping and changing won't get them anywhere. This failure today doesn't bother me as long as they get a good run and play with intent. If it comes off once in 5 games I'm happy. That's a start
 
Major said:
14/4 in the Power Play is the 2nd worst for Pakistan.

We were told around here how Babar and Rizwan are making this team weak and not allowing us reach our true potential. World beaters like Haris were being kept out etc.

Pakistan were 1/3. At one point even I was confused whether the scoring format had been changed.

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LoL, where are the fans who wanted to get rid of Babar & Rizwan? well here are the replacements. Full of positive intent, aggression and high strike rates. No more 90s cricket just modern aggressive cricket. LoL
And who made Salman Agha the Captain after only playing 6 T20s in which his total runs were 50. What a joke.
 
This is why we are stuck with same core who keep on failing in ICC events as fans don’t have patience and start whining after loses in useless bilaterals with new players the most few should not be to win this series if we can find couple of players for the long haul we should be satisfied

Bring on game 2.
 
The problem is not that we lost to NZ..

The issue is we failed to adapt to conditions and this lot were swinging for the fences when a more measured approach was requires.. Brain Dead Team with Brain Dead Management

If we got to 130-140 and made NZ earn their win by taking 4-5 wickets..I would have been the first to applaud this team.

Our bowling again got hammered and NZ chased this in 10 overs.

Very disappointing and no one wants to take their chances and grab a spot in the team… our cricket and standards keep plunging to new lows and I will reiterate again that RizBar were never the problem in the first place
 
msb314 said:
The problem is not that we lost to NZ..

The issue is we failed to adapt to conditions and this lot were swinging for the fences when a more measured approach was requires.. Brain Dead Team with Brain Dead Management

If we got to 130-140 and made NZ earn their win by taking 4-5 wickets..I would have been the first to applaud this team.

Our bowling again got hammered and NZ chased this in 10 overs.

Very disappointing and no one wants to take their chances and grab a spot in the team… our cricket and standards keep plunging to new lows and I will reiterate again that RizBar were never the problem in the first place
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Do you think this is plunging to a lower low than USA defeat brother?
 
So no complaints if nz make it an ultra bouncy/seaming pitch lmao??

Zero complaints about these master pitch tamperers nz. But if an Asian team does it, particularly your friendly neighbour then all hell will break loose. There is always a huge ruckus and commotion if India allegedly pitch tampers
 
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Major said:
14/4 in the Power Play is the 2nd worst for Pakistan.

We were told around here how Babar and Rizwan are making this team weak and not allowing us reach our true potential. World beaters like Haris were being kept out etc.

Pakistan were 1/3. At one point even I was confused whether the scoring format had been changed.

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We were losing with them and we lost without them.

Only difference is that now we have an opportunity to identify a suitable replacement - whether there is one or not.
 
Only 1 bad game for this very young team on difficult foreign conditions and knives are out. Ironically only RizBar fans are happy just because they want them back at any cost. RizBar fans must remember Pakistan had lost to USA, Zimbabwe, Ireland and many other easy games under those two. The young side must get at least 3-4 series to establish, there is no reason to look backward now at any cost
 
They all need time but most of their basics are so poor which doesn't give much hope. Hasan Nawaz has gotten out so many times in the same fashion and even in the practice games leading up to the series and here today he perishes with the same hoick across the line.
 
No one becomes world bearers overnight from being at the bottom. You guys really need to give the new guys enough time and chances.
 
msb314 said:
The problem is not that we lost to NZ..

The issue is we failed to adapt to conditions and this lot were swinging for the fences when a more measured approach was requires.. Brain Dead Team with Brain Dead Management

If we got to 130-140 and made NZ earn their win by taking 4-5 wickets..I would have been the first to applaud this team.

Our bowling again got hammered and NZ chased this in 10 overs.

Very disappointing and no one wants to take their chances and grab a spot in the team… our cricket and standards keep plunging to new lows and I will reiterate again that RizBar were never the problem in the first place
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How will they adapt without playing enough matches in these conditions? If they are given enough time they will. Pitch reading and adapting comes with experience, no one is born with it.
 
Greenstorm said:
Rest of their lineups are filled with tullaybaaz. Salt, Hales, A Sharma, M Marsh, McGurk, Fin Allen, Conway etc are all tullay master and there is no reason to believe that M Harris types can't emulate them if given enough chances.
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Agree to some extent that tullas have a place in T20 today. Likes of Finn, JFM, Abhishek have FC batting averages between 20-30 range. But typically a team can carry one such glass cannon player.

Rest of batters all should have some grounding in FC to build up their basic techniques. They don't need to be super successful (Salt and Hales average between 33-37) but playing 30-40 games helps them develop their batting skills.

Issue is not with Pak giving Haris a long run, it is with carrying Haris, Hassan Nawaz and Abdul Samad in the same top 7.
IMO only one or max 2 of them can play in same XI.
 
Imagine you're a young player, get out badly in your debut, and now the fans are insulting your entire worth and future as a cricketer.

Put yourselves in their shoes.

This is not how you support a rebuilding team or any team for that matter.

The moment you start looking at singular games or wins and losses, it kills the rebuild. Pakistan will have two aims during this series, the first is to build a new mindset (i.e. positive cricket) and the second is to unearth a few decent players.

This could be Haris, Nawaz, Jahandad, or perhaps an improved Agha Salman too. Maybe all of them are wrong choices, but just setting the mindset will be a step in the right direction moving forward.

Pakistan was struggling big time with RizBar in this format. No one has been wronged here with their removal. It's the harsh truth and they literally lost to the USA. Change was needed and change is never going to be breezy.
 
They need to curb the player power and build the team with the best talent available. Our domestic system clearly isn't good enough to nurture world class players.
 
But if you ask me a question whether dropping Babar and Rizwan was a right call? I would say absolutely Yes.

But dropping them doesn't mean the others will be asked to from ball 1, without assessing the conditions, pitch and bounce. That has to be most brainfade coaching one can give to a youngster.

The team is on the right track, with Fakhar and Saim coming in, and Agha & khushdil in middle, this can actually become better squad if not the best.

But for this series we need to show some patience and not drop any youngsters just after few games. They should ideally get to play next 1-2 series too without any fear of loosing their place.

If you wanna anything from here, it has to be your bowling. Shaheen has been crap since more than 2 years now, Haris has been spray gun for last 2 years now but no one is asking the question about their role in defeats Pak has faced.
 
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Lol.

Haha.

One game and Rizbar fans are celebrating.

Haha.

You have got to be kidding me.

RIzbar got 3 whole years to flop, stat pad and play at their own pace irrespective of the results.

And here, one match and their fans are screaming and shouting.

What a farce.

How are you supposed to build a team if newbies are given one game whike Rizbar get 3 years of flopping?

Unreal.
 
Dr_Bassim said:
Lol.

Haha.

One game and Rizbar fans are celebrating.

Haha.

You have got to be kidding me.

RIzbar got 3 whole years to flop, stat pad and play at their own pace irrespective of the results.

And here, one match and their fans are screaming and shouting.

What a farce.

How are you supposed to build a team if newbies are given one game whike Rizbar get 3 years of flopping?

Unreal.
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The thing is Doc, these guys will never change. We have to accept that.

I don’t mind it at all, they have every right to vent hatred. I like this,

Push these boys as hard as you can. Write them off after 1 game or whatever. I know that they will come good for Pakistan (InshaAllah), and when they do, you will see them go into hiding again.

Push them right up against the wall, they will come fighting right back!
 
Waiting for a game in this series where Pakistan has a good start in powerplay and see totally opposite threads being made maybe even from the same posters.

Fans have been very reactionary.
 
Haris, Nawaz, Salman, Irfan, Samad

If even one or two of these guys get some runs in this series it’s a net positive you are closer to developing a team then you were before this series .

I am little disappointed we did not go with couple more youngsters like Akif and Qasim Akram in place of Shadab and Shaheen
 
It's really funny how the Rizwan-Babar duo have attained Rohit-Kohli level of stature among Pakistan fans despite not being anywhere near them in terms of actual skillset, talent and on-field performances.

You see these kind of discussions among Indian fans whenever Rohit-Kohli are rested and our youngsters fail on rare occasions.
 
Mesozoic said:
It's really funny how the Rizwan-Babar duo have attained Rohit-Kohli level of stature among Pakistan fans despite not being anywhere near them in terms of actual skillset, talent and on-field performances.

You see these kind of discussions among Indian fans whenever Rohit-Kohli are rested and our youngsters fail on rare occasions.
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It's cause your youngsters fail on rare occasions. Key words on rare occasions.

Pakistan ain't failing on rare occasions mate.
 
Rana said:
Keep believing.

We will rise!
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Rana bro, this is not the team that people want. Read my earlier comments before the series and I highlighted issues.

1) Muhammad Haris (Hackish but idrc, he's the player with the right attitude so it's fine)

2) Hasan nawaz (pretty early to judge atm, but based of domestic performances he's good)

3) Agha (Not an t20 player)

4) irfan Khan niazi (SNGPL brother, certain people wanted this guy to replace Saim ayub lol)

5) Shadab Khan (Can he fine as captain otherwise he needs to leave, Useless bat and bowler)

6) Khsudil (Pakistan can work with him to an extent)

7) Abdul samad (SNGPL useless)

8) Janhdad (uselwss)

9) Shaheen (finished)

10) Abrar (Good)

11) Ali (Needs to ve booted out for Sufiyan)

The players that should be backed for t20 are

1) Saim Ayub
2) Maaz Sadaqat
3) Usman Khan
4) Hussain Talat
5) Haider Ali
6) Muhammad Haris
7) Arafat Minhas
8) Mubasir Khan
9) Usman Tariq
10) Abrar
11) Sufiyan
12) Mohammad Imran
13) wasim jnr
14) Haris Rauf (Good for t20)
15) Saad Masood
16) Hasan Nawaz
17) Fakhar Zaman ( He is aging now though)
18) Qasim Akram
19) Khawaja Nafay
20) Mehran Mumtaz
21) Shadab Khan (Only if you're making him captain)

^^ This is the pool of 21 that Pakistan shpuld stick with motor the foreseeable future.

Sngpl gang like samad, Niazi, and non t20 players like agha have no place in the squad. Neither does shaheen
 
Mesozoic said:
It's really funny how the Rizwan-Babar duo have attained Rohit-Kohli level of stature among Pakistan fans despite not being anywhere near them in terms of actual skillset, talent and on-field performances.

You see these kind of discussions among Indian fans whenever Rohit-Kohli are rested and our youngsters fail on rare occasions.
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Indian youngsters are different level compared to Pakistan or any other teams

There is no comparison between Jaiswal ,Sanju , Abhishek ,Reddy, Parag, Tilak, etc with Heck like haris, hasan Nawaz, Irfan , khushdil, abdul Samad and Shadab

:kp
 
@Major @gazza619 @shah9425 @Ahmed216 @
mominsaigol said:
Rana bro, this is not the team that people want. Read my earlier comments before the series and I highlighted issues.

1) Muhammad Haris (Hackish but idrc, he's the player with the right attitude so it's fine)

2) Hasan nawaz (pretty early to judge atm, but based of domestic performances he's good)

3) Agha (Not an t20 player)

4) irfan Khan niazi (SNGPL brother, certain people wanted this guy to replace Saim ayub lol)

5) Shadab Khan (Can he fine as captain otherwise he needs to leave, Useless bat and bowler)

6) Khsudil (Pakistan can work with him to an extent)

7) Abdul samad (SNGPL useless)

8) Janhdad (uselwss)

9) Shaheen (finished)

10) Abrar (Good)

11) Ali (Needs to ve booted out for Sufiyan)

The players that should be backed for t20 are

1) Saim Ayub
2) Maaz Sadaqat
3) Usman Khan
4) Hussain Talat
5) Haider Ali
6) Muhammad Haris
7) Arafat Minhas
8) Mubasir Khan
9) Usman Tariq
10) Abrar
11) Sufiyan
12) Mohammad Imran
13) wasim jnr
14) Haris Rauf (Good for t20)
15) Saad Masood
16) Hasan Nawaz
17) Fakhar Zaman ( He is aging now though)
18) Qasim Akram
19) Khawaja Nafay
20) Mehran Mumtaz
21) Shadab Khan (Only if you're making him captain)

^^ This is the pool of 21 that Pakistan shpuld stick with motor the foreseeable future.

Sngpl gang like samad, Niazi, and non t20 players like agha have no place in the squad. Neither does shaheen
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it is what it is now.

Of course Saim and Fakhar will make us compete.

I will be bold enough to add Azam Khan into that mix too. I don’t have any doubts in his batting ability, and I’m hoping and praying for Usman Khan to unlock it international level too.

I believe in these boys. I’m willing to give those SNGPL parchis a chance too as long as RizBar are kept out.
 
Rana said:
@Major @gazza619 @shah9425 @Ahmed216 @

it is what it is now.

Of course Saim and Fakhar will make us compete.

I will be bold enough to add Azam Khan into that mix too. I don’t have any doubts in his batting ability, and I’m hoping and praying for Usman Khan to unlock it international level too.

I believe in these boys. I’m willing to give those SNGPL parchis a chance too as long as RizBar are kept out.
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Usman khan on Asian condtions can be solid, he won't fucntion on such NZ tracks but tbf, none of the present batters are fucntioning either.

Babar and Rizwan wouldn't have done a damn thing here since Babar would get out on that 3rd offstump line which nz was targeting and rizwan baba is rizwan baba.

But I don't really trust azam Khan too much. Not a good player. But let's see.
 
Hahahahhahaja fearlesss cricket...my foot this is the reality of these tail enders...
Gavasker gave us respect by saying their B team will beat its their C team which will thrash us..i just saw the replay of our batting we should have been 30 all out would have loved it.
Kiwi B team dropped 5 catches and one stumping
 
mominsaigol said:
It's cause your youngsters fail on rare occasions. Key words on rare occasions.

Pakistan ain't failing on rare occasions mate.
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Yeah but that's not my point.

How are Pak fans missing Rizwan and Babar when they themselves could do f all when they were in the side? This would have been understandable had those two won some big games in past from time to time atleast but that's not the case.

I think someone said it best sometime ago on this forum..."Best way to have your stocks rise in Pakistan cricket is by actually not playing".
 
Mesozoic said:
Well they weren't world beaters even with them so what's the harm?

RizBar haven't even won an Asia cup title for Pakistan... that too when India were going through a rough patch in 2022 and Sri Lanka were there for the taking.

Failing with youngsters is much better than sticking with TTFs
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True, very poor thread. But that is Pak cricket for you. Based on individuals.

I do have thoughts re Haris opening...
 
mominsaigol said:
Usman khan on Asian condtions can be solid, he won't fucntion on such NZ tracks but tbf, none of the present batters are fucntioning either.
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We know that bro but for some reason Pakistan insist on him being their guy in SENA conditions whilst shelving him on Asian conditions lol

Guy has to deal with it. Needs to get on with it and make a score that will force him through into the home side.
 
It’s better to perform like this in practice opposed to an ICC event, and this is what bilateral’s are for; gaining experience in distinct conditions & giving a long rope to a young team, that can’t happen when you keep going back to selfish players, humiliate Pakistan on the biggest stage. You’ve defended failure for half a decade but criticise youngsters after a single game,

The lads went out on their shield, very proud today.

Pakistan Zindabad!

#804 🔥

#AbsolutelyNot 🤡🤡
 
Mesozoic said:
Yeah but that's not my point.

How are Pak fans missing Rizwan and Babar when they themselves could do f all when they were in the side? This would have been understandable had those two won some big games in past from time to time atleast but that's not the case.

I think someone said it best sometime ago on this forum..."Best way to have your stocks rise in Pakistan cricket is by actually not playing".
Click to expand...

Best way to have your stocks rise in Pakistan cricket is by actually not playing

^^ I'm borrowing this comment and spamming it next time someone brings rizwan in t20 as an opener, although I'm open to Babar returning, not rizzu.

This quote belongs to me now 🫠. Jk jk.

You're a very solid poster though, i misjudged you in the past.
 
pakistani pride said:
True, very poor thread. But that is Pak cricket for you. Based on individuals.

I do have thoughts re Haris opening...
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Harris was told to swing from ball one. That’s what he was doing lol. He was following the plan.

It’s unfortunate because the plan is very difficult to execute on a track like this. Kyle Jamieson in his unplayable Test match bowling form. This guy is a well known runs machine in white ball cricket.

Chal koi na. We go again tomorrow!
 
Dr_Bassim said:
Lol.

Haha.

One game and Rizbar fans are celebrating.

Haha.

You have got to be kidding me.

RIzbar got 3 whole years to flop, stat pad and play at their own pace irrespective of the results.

And here, one match and their fans are screaming and shouting.

What a farce.

How are you supposed to build a team if newbies are given one game whike Rizbar get 3 years of flopping?

Unreal.
Click to expand...

This is the lowly mindset reflected by those who contribute to a failed state and defend serial failures. They are worried their gravy train is in jeopardy. I am not surprised they have stooped to this level, I’ve always said how they’re big part of why Pakistan has failed consistently, with fans like these, which enemies does Pakistan cricket need ?
 
Slowly but surely Khushdil finding himself at international level.

Happy for this guy. Keep going Khushi
 
Rana said:
Push them right up against the wall, they will come fighting right back!
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I would add to this by saying, if you don’t come out fighting after that embarrassment/setback, then maybe you are not worthy of that green shirt you have been trusted with.

This was a hallmark of the strong Pakistan teams of the past. They had that one embarrassing performance somewhere, but at least they had the ghairat to look at themselves in the mirror, pick themselves up and come roaring out in the next game. I’ve seen it many times in the teams of the past which I supported and loved.
 
Rana said:
Harris was told to swing from ball one. That’s what he was doing lol. He was following the plan.

It’s unfortunate because the plan is very difficult to execute on a track like this. Kyle Jamieson in his unplayable Test match bowling form. This guy is a well known runs machine in white ball cricket.

Chal koi na. We go again tomorrow!
Click to expand...
What are his T20 stats overall.
 
pakistani pride said:
What are his T20 stats overall.
Click to expand...
Look mate the KIWI commentators this time did Pakistan a big favour by highlighting the strike rates of the players selected and not their averages. They acknowledge Pakistan needed to change their approach and they have picked players that want to bring that modern game at this level.

You won’t find anyone in Pakistan with a healthy average and a strong strike rate at the same time. Our priority is strike rate (as it should be), we just need to be patient.
 
Some people's think bringing club level youngster players to Pakistan team will solved the issues and Pakistan team start scoring 200+ . :ROFLMAO:

Talent is also required for that, which is not there in Pakistan .
:kp
 
This was a tough pitch for the new comers. The ball was seaming and bouncing. We are not used to these conditions. Most of them were playing for the first time outside sub-continent.

I will stick with this team. Give them time and they will surely come out good. You can’t keep going back to tried and tested oldies if you want to move forward. I would rather lose with all these young players than winning one odd matches with the players who have failed over and over again.

You might not see all of them succeeding but you’d surely find few who can join with the likes of Saim and Fakhar going forward.

It’s actually quite good to see Khushdil Shah improving. He seems a much better lower order batsman than he was in his previous run. Probably need some improvement against faster blowers.

Let’s be patient. It’s not like we were world beaters before.
 
For me the biggest disappointment was Irfan Niazi and how he looked absolutely clueless like a number 11. Static feet.

This is the kind of player pro RizBar fans and journalists push and shove down our throats because he comes from the red-ball fc circuit with runs under his belt.

What the bloody hell was he doing last night???? Where are your adaptability skills when you have a red ball fc average of 45?????
 
Rana said:
For me the biggest disappointment was Irfan Niazi and how he looked absolutely clueless like a number 11. Static feet.

This is the kind of player pro RizBar fans and journalists push and shove down our throats because he comes from the red-ball fc circuit with runs under his belt.

What the bloody hell was he doing last night???? Where are your adaptability skills when you have a red ball fc average of 45?????
Click to expand...
That's probably because he idolises Misbah ul Haq the destroyer in chief
 
Ahmed216 said:
How's it arrogance? As you know No Rizbar fan can be a true Pak fan. I am trying to become one
Click to expand...
It is pure arrogance. The kind you made when Babar backstabbed Shaheen for captaincy, and the kind you displayed when Rizwan won the ODI series v Australia. That’s ok, it’s a smirk that is usually wiped off soon.
 
mrtaim3 said:
This was a tough pitch for the new comers. The ball was seaming and bouncing. We are not used to these conditions. Most of them were playing for the first time outside sub-continent.

I will stick with this team. Give them time and they will surely come out good. You can’t keep going back to tried and tested oldies if you want to move forward. I would rather lose with all these young players than winning one odd matches with the players who have failed over and over again.

You might not see all of them succeeding but you’d surely find few who can join with the likes of Saim and Fakhar going forward.

It’s actually quite good to see Khushdil Shah improving. He seems a much better lower order batsman than he was in his previous run. Probably need some improvement against faster blowers.

Let’s be patient. It’s not like we were world beaters before.
Click to expand...
I agree pitch waa v difficult no doubt but to hack every ball
 
Rana said:
For me the biggest disappointment was Irfan Niazi and how he looked absolutely clueless like a number 11. Static feet.

This is the kind of player pro RizBar fans and journalists push and shove down our throats because he comes from the red-ball fc circuit with runs under his belt.

What the bloody hell was he doing last night???? Where are your adaptability skills when you have a red ball fc average of 45?????
Click to expand...

Shadab Khan needs to bowl at players like that for another 12 months in FC cricket 🤡🤡🤡
 
mominsaigol said:
Until and unless fc cricket is priotized and proper pitches are made in Pakistan to support the development of fc nothing will change.

Even if you suck at test cricket, it atleast teaches you technique and timing and for bowlers it gives them stamina + line and length accuracy.

You can be a poor Test player but do wonders in Odi and t20 provided you've played test cricket because your technique fundamentals remain the same and can work in other formats.

Babar, Rizwan, Fakhar( before international), Saim ayub etc etc have all played test cricket and don't have hackish techniques.

In comparison Mohammad haris has played only 13 fc games and it clearly shows given his technique is worse then mine lol.

Don't get me wrong, this isn't a fool proof method. Agha and saud play fc but are useless in t20 and in Saudis case odi as well but typically such players do make the transition.

Saud and agha still give vibes of being proper batters, hence you need more fc players. From that pool you'll develop actual t20 and odi batters.

Otherwise usman khan, haris, Azam Khan, None of these boys will ever succeed. Usman khan might dominate in Pakistan only, but on such swinging pitches, no chance. He just doesn't have the technique or footwork for it.
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The issue is not being able to asses conditions and bat accordingly and a lack of strategy from the coaches.

Every pitch is not a 200 plus wicket

One match means nothing.

England have been reckless at times

These players need at least 20 odd T20 games at least and playing at home will help.

Fakhar , Saim and Nafay should be the Top 3.
 
Shoaib Akhtar 100 MPH said:
The issue is not being able to asses conditions and bat accordingly and a lack of strategy from the coaches.

Every pitch is not a 200 plus wicket

One match means nothing.

England have been reckless at times

These players need at least 20 odd T20 games at least and playing at home will help.

Fakhar , Saim and Nafay should be the Top 3.
Click to expand...
This is a good post but I am still say I am impressed by how an Australian supporter like momsaigol bhai knows so much about Pak cricket. Truly a blessing to have such knowledge walking around us.
 
IMO RizBar fans should hope they do not return to the team for at least 2 years.

Mark my words, if your agenda to bring them back in the side succeeds in the short run, their failure upon return will be the final nail in the coffin. There is no coming back after that.

By failure, I do not mean they will get below 10 runs per match, it will be the accumulators approach that will cost Pakistan cricket in pivotal moments.

Be very careful what you wish for.
 
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