14/4 in the powerplay against New Zealand in first T20I! I thought Pakistan were to become world beaters after dropping Mohammad Rizwan and Babar Azam

[RyanRyan10]

What did we do last year with those 2 in NZ?

Babar scored 35 ball 50s chasing 200+

 

[Shoaib Akhtar 100 MPH]

Bhai I've watched Pakistan t20 cricket. I don't wish to put you down, I'm sure you probably have your reasons but based of what I've seen

1) Saim Ayub
2) Maaz Sadaqat
3) Hussain Talat
4) Haider Ali (on current form)
5) Omair Yousaf (Although his game is more suited to red ball)

^^ These guys are proper young batters. I'm not saying their world beaters, but their all batters with good techniques and they should be given a long rope, Especially haider ali who's reinvented himself after being dropped and developed a proper technique. He's also been the best whiteball batter in domestic for a while now, but he's still a nervous starter.

Muhammad haris, Abdul Samad are not proper batters, their hacks and hence their ceiling is comparatively lower since they don't possess proper cricketing strokes or footwork.

Agha salman is a proper batsmen but I don't know why he's so poor in t20. It's a mystery since he's always been a 95+ SR batsmen in List A and Odi international. He was striking at 95+ in list a way before his debut but his record has always been poor in t20 way before he even made an international debut.

Hasan Nawaz i don't know, I need to wait and see more of him.

Shadab is useless at no 5. He's a good captain and has the best t20 cricketing brain in the country but he's just a specialist captain. He's useless with the bat and ball. He's a tail ender who's pretending that's all.

Same with Khsudil and jahndad, Tbf their clean strikers of the ball but their still tullas.

Your entire batting lineup is filled with sloggers, and these boys don't have a high ceiling, you still need 3 to 4 proper batters in t20 for any lineup.

The players youve mentioned are good.

No issues with that.

But I was talking about the squad thats been selected for this NZ tour.

For me Fakhar, Saim , Nafay Top 3.

Abdul samad is no hack. Revisit his play.

He has shots but you cant just these lads after 1 game in foreign conditions.

As I said earlier most boards pick home series to debut new players not away series in order for them to bed in easier.

Stupid board plus Stupid coach = Stupid decision making and strategies.

 

[Rana]

Abdul samad is no hack. Revisit his play.

He has game awareness issues

He came in at the crease when both Agha and Khushdil found some momentum, especially Khushdil had hit Sodhi for a six and then two sixes to Bracewell. All he had to do was give the strike back to Khushi early on and instead was sucking out the momentum with his dots.

 

[Justcrazy]

No, it was not expected. Its a Very rare scenarios where team only scored one boundary in T20 powerplay .

Pakistan will themselves break this record.

 

[Justcrazy]

You can change Entire team but result will be not changed.

Problem is not with Pakistan players but system and untill pakistan doens't fix the system ,they will not win anything in the future apart from few games here and there .

That is what I have been saying in so many posts , unless system is changed , things will not change.

 

[Justcrazy]

He has game awareness issues

He came in at the crease when both Agha and Khushdil found some momentum, especially Khushdil had hit Sodhi for a six and then two sixes to Bracewell. All he had to do was give the strike back to Khushi early on and instead was sucking out the momentum with his dots.

You do not learn game awareness and technique at this level. You have to polish yourself at first class , that is what first class in there for.

 

[Rana]

You do not learn game awareness and technique at this level. You have to polish yourself at first class , that is what first class in there for.

Yeah I mean me or you have never played fc cricket but we know this and he doesn’t whilst being the one at the crease? What kind of stupid argument is that?

 

[RyanRyan10]

This should be Pak t20 team

Saim
Fakhar
M Haris
Khushdil
Salman
Shadab
Haider
Abbas
Shaheen
Haris Rauf
Abrar

 

[jnaveen1980]

After the seniors won us the t20 world cup, our t20 team was completely reformed, that team lost its first match vs Zimbabwe.

A lot of Indian fans were jumping from the rooftops and blaming the Team Management for this 180 change, fast forward to now and they have become the most exciting t20 team in the world with match winners from 1 to 11.

I know that Pakistan doesn’t carry the same talent that we have, but this is t20 cricket and all these players are in their early twenties or mid twenties, they have the right attitude, they will collapse from time to time but will definitely show more promise than that Rizbar team.

Once Saim and Fakhar are back, this Unit will have a set structure and they will show better results.

I don't think Pakistan has ever had a proper T20 batsman with big hitting ability and consistency in their history. They won mostly due to their bowling of guys like Umar Gul, Amir, Ajmal, Afridi etc. Never a batting side. In the modern world ability against all types of bowling has gotten better. People are prepared to reverse scoop pin point yorkers. So Pakistan is doing a massive catching up.

Looking at the following table you can see pakistan could never find a batsman who could bat long and also aggressively. They settled on players who could bat "long" and perceived them as match winners.

 

[Ahmed216]

I thought keeping Rizbar out was enough to start making progress.

But two of Misbah's disciples(scapegoats) are still in the squad.

Abdul Sammad and Irfan Niazi.

@gazza619 @daytrader
@Kianig89

 

[Shoaib Akhtar 100 MPH]

Tayyab Tahir in t20 cricket is much better then Agha is. Agha is not a t20 player and I don't know why.

If you've been following his career trajectory he was beyond rubbish in t20 cricket way before his debut.

He was always Pakistan's best batting allrounder and a natural successor to Malik and if you look at some old PP threads, many posters desperately wanted him in our test and odi squad and feel he should have made his debut when he was 22 or 23, not when he was 29.

But in t20 he has always been God awful. His best t20 performance came.last psl at no 3 but even then he was just okay, nothing special.

Again I don't know why as he's a player with a proper technique and has always batted with a good avg and very good sr in both fc, test, list a and odi.

But in t20 he's never been good.

As I said, I've watched these guys play lol. I keep a close eye on Australian domestic cricket as well, however Australia is fine. Their test stocks and t20 stocks are high but their struggling a bit on odi stocks. The current crop just don't know how to play odi cricket.

Pakistan on the other hand is struggling on all fronts. Lack of interest in fc, and an outdated T20 system led by outdated individuals like rizwan, Shan, Babar, saud captaining etc.

Odi stocks are good to a certain extent however, the upcoming stock is still woefully behind SENA and India.

Salman Ali is not really a T20 player but overall comparing him with TT he wins hands down.

The key issue in Pakistan is always outside interference from people who don't have a clue about it.

We lost out on Quality experienced coaches like Kirsten and Dizzy because of influence and interference of people like Aqib who get given roles because of connections.

Until the PCB is an independent sporting body free from political interference these results will always be what we see now with odd series victories here and there at best.

The professionals should be left to do their jobs as they see fit.

Australian politicians or Army don't involve themselves in Australian sports which is why they are the benchmark in the cricketing world.

Players need a proper system to flourish not kamikaze jokers who want to line their pockets at the expense of the country.

No country can prosper with a corrupt system and people.

That is the real truth.

Players are secondary to that.

 

[jamie smith fan]

I thought keeping Rizbar out was enough to start making progress.

But two of Misbah's disciples(scapegoats) are still in the squad.

Abdul Sammad and Irfan Niazi.

@gazza619 @daytrader
@Kianig89

Yeah it was all organs fault that pak lost.
Haris and Hassan scored flawless ducks.
Asif ali and sharjeel need to be recalled.

 

[Shoaib Akhtar 100 MPH]

He has game awareness issues

He came in at the crease when both Agha and Khushdil found some momentum, especially Khushdil had hit Sodhi for a six and then two sixes to Bracewell. All he had to do was give the strike back to Khushi early on and instead was sucking out the momentum with his dots.

Based on 1 innings.

Fantastic .

 

[topspin]

More that Rizbar pay you...

BOOOM!

 

[Shoaib Akhtar 100 MPH]

Abdul Samad.

 

[Rana]

Based on 1 innings.

Fantastic .

I’ve seen him plenty in the Champions cup and the Shaheen’s game too, I was giving the example of one match.

Ab baja taali

 

[RyanRyan10]

I’ve seen him plenty in the Champions cup and the Shaheen’s game too, I was giving the example of one match.

Ab baja taali

I remember you saying the same thing about Samad during Emerging Asia Cup

 

[Shoaib Akhtar 100 MPH]

I’ve seen him plenty in the Champions cup and the Shaheen’s game too, I was giving the example of one match.

Ab baja taali

One game in foreign conditions means nothing.

Your quote :Ab baja taali Just for you .

Ab Thumbs up Kar.

 

[Rana]

One game in foreign conditions means nothing.

Your quote :Ab baja taali Just for you .

Ab Thumbs up Kar.

Kya chawlain maar raha eh? What does game awareness have to do with foreign or home conditions? He was facing Ish Sodhi…not Rangana Herath at Galle

 

[Devadwal]

You do not learn game awareness and technique at this level. You have to polish yourself at first class , that is what first class in there for.

This poster is obsessed with glorified Tullebaaz who can hit a six . Anyone who can hit a six is his favourite player

You need techniques and game awareness to play fearless cricket Which is why current Indian team is successful.

THe way Pakistan youngsters were played today , it was nothing short of embarrassment for a Test playing nations like Pakistan who has Rich history behind in the World cricket.

Any team can out for lower Total but mode of dismissal is matter the most.

But nothing will happen to Pakistan cricket because they like the Mediocrity and Tullebaaz players

As i said earlier you can changed the player but result will be not changed untill pakistan fix Their system.

 

[topspin]

You seem very happy

He's happy because Misbah came up with the Babar/Rizwan opening combo. You see this is another veiled Misbah glorifying thread. Everything he does revolves around him.

 

[Hellion]

Pakistan cannot afford to drop Babar. They just don't have the players who can bat long and fast.

Maybe in the future after Strike Force , a few Military camps and some proper AI based selection, then you can look forward to those 30+/140 + players.

 

[mominsaigol]

Salman Ali is not really a T20 player but overall comparing him with TT he wins hands down.

The key issue in Pakistan is always outside interference from people who don't have a clue about it.

We lost out on Quality experienced coaches like Kirsten and Dizzy because of influence and interference of people like Aqib who get given roles because of connections.

Until the PCB is an independent sporting body free from political interference these results will always be what we see now with odd series victories here and there at best.

The professionals should be left to do their jobs as they see fit.

Australian politicians or Army don't involve themselves in Australian sports which is why they are the benchmark in the cricketing world.

Players need a proper system to flourish not kamikaze jokers who want to line their pockets at the expense of the country.

No country can prosper with a corrupt system and people.

That is the real truth.

Players are secondary to that.

The problem is Pakistan is a country with extremly hostile borders, and the country that's most hostile towards it literally runs ICC.

Military interference in not just cricket but every matter is more or less bound to happen even if it shouldn't.

Australia on the other hand doesn't have this issue. Global stats showed that if a world war 3 was to happen, aus, nz and Iceland would be the only 3 countries unaffected due to how remote they are and how they politically wouldn't be interested which was the case in ww2 where aus suffered zero casualties minus the few soldiers they sent to help allies against Germany. Their own land was unaffected.

Theirs no need for army or political interference in matters such as sports when they country virtually has no enemies and even if it did, it wouldn't matter since no country can be bothered to really deal with something so far away.

Even if sanctions by other countries were imposed, Aus already has water, mineral and food resources to last forever, if anything other countries are reliant on Australia for trade, besides USA, China and many others wouldn't bother going against aus, aus is literally the land where they open up business the most.

It's pretty difficult to create an independent PCB board in a country where the army runs everything. The army abuses it's power because it can. Sadly the people of Pakistan can't deny them as without the army, Pakistan is toast due to hostile borders.

CA has the benefits from being an independent board + they have endless upon endless land to curate amazing pitches and develop athletic cricketers and solid systems.

Not to mention BCCI would never deny them IPL contracts. Australia literally generates the most amount of revenue for them in terms of purchase bids. They pay tons to have someome like Travis head on their team.

Their a country with no enemies except North Korea which just hates everyone by default. Pakistan on the other hand isn't on friendly terms with any of its borders except China who couldn't give a damn about Pakistan. Military rule is inevitable and it'll run PCB the way it sees fit.

 

[topspin]

You don't need high avg low sr batters like Misbah especially in the T20 format. Low averaging but high strike rate, high impact players are perfect for T20 Cricket

An excellent retort to someone who's regurgitating Misbah's outdated brand of cricket.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Pakistan cannot afford to drop Babar. They just don't have the players who can bat long and fast.

Maybe in the future after Strike Force , a few Military camps and some proper AI based selection, then you can look forward to those 30+/140 + players.

I think Babar is equally harmful in a different way. He eats up more than 50% of the deliveries. I bet many can do the same if they play long enough. Go slowly for 10 or 15 overs hit a 4 or 6 in the end make up for sR somewhat. HIhg risk games comes with inconsistency. This is why you need solid players with top gear. Pakistan has none at this point. Babar's top gear cannot be 3 or 4 given that he ends up facing more than half the overs. T20 is a harder format than ODI to be impactful. In one dayers you can catch up as plenty of overs left. Probably the easiest format for any batsman. Best case scenario for Pakistan was Babar himself becoming an aggressive batsman like Shai Hope recently turned himself into one. But Babar never stepped outside his comfort zone.

 

[Justcrazy]

This poster is obsessed with glorified Tullebaaz who can hit a six . Anyone who can hit a six is his favourite player

You need techniques and game awareness to play fearless cricket Which is why current Indian team is successful.

THe way Pakistan youngsters were played today , it was nothing short of embarrassment for a Test playing nations like Pakistan who has Rich history behind in the World cricket.

Any team can out for lower Total but mode of dismissal is matter the most.

But nothing will happen to Pakistan cricket because they like the Mediocrity and Tullebaaz players

As i said earlier you can changed the player but result will be not changed untill pakistan fix Their system.

You need players who have proper hitting techniques not sloggers , Pakistan is confused with these two kinds of batters.

 

[Fanboy375]

Except 2 players all are **** is bad.You can't rely on just 2 but focus on having stable team

 

[Shoaib Akhtar 100 MPH]

The problem is Pakistan is a country with extremly hostile borders, and the country that's most hostile towards it literally runs ICC.

Military interference in not just cricket but every matter is more or less bound to happen even if it shouldn't.

Australia on the other hand doesn't have this issue. Global stats showed that if a world war 3 was to happen, aus, nz and Iceland would be the only 3 countries unaffected due to how remote they are and how they politically wouldn't be interested which was the case in ww2 where aus suffered zero casualties minus the few soldiers they sent to help allies against Germany. Their own land was unaffected.

Theirs no need for army or political interference in matters such as sports when they country virtually has no enemies and even if it did, it wouldn't matter since no country can be bothered to really deal with something so far away.

Even if sanctions by other countries were imposed, Aus already has water, mineral and food resources to last forever, if anything other countries are reliant on Australia for trade, besides USA, China and many others wouldn't bother going against aus, aus is literally the land where they open up business the most.

It's pretty difficult to create an independent PCB board in a country where the army runs everything. The army abuses it's power because it can. Sadly the people of Pakistan can't deny them as without the army, Pakistan is toast due to hostile borders.

CA has the benefits from being an independent board + they have endless upon endless land to curate amazing pitches and develop athletic cricketers and solid systems.

Not to mention BCCI would never deny them IPL contracts. Australia literally generates the most amount of revenue for them in terms of purchase bids. They pay tons to have someome like Travis head on their team.

Their a country with no enemies except North Korea which just hates everyone by default. Pakistan on the other hand isn't on friendly terms with any of its borders except China who couldn't give a damn about Pakistan. Military rule is inevitable and it'll run PCB the way it sees fit.

Your quote:

The problem is Pakistan is a country with extremely hostile borders, and the country that's most hostile towards it literally runs ICC.
CA has the benefits from being an independent board + they have endless upon endless land to curate amazing pitches and develop athletic cricketers and solid systems.

Not to mention BCCI would never deny them IPL contracts. Australia literally generates the most amount of revenue for them in terms of purchase bids. They pay tons to have someome like Travis head on their team.

Agreed.

However the hostile neighbour cant afford a war with Pakistan either due to their economic and political ambitions with other nations and foreign investments as well as the obvious collateral damage.

Any sign or risk of war risks destabilising their economy and alienating the overseas businesses and markets who will pull out and cause them chaos no end.

The US, UK, Saudi, UAE, israel have huge investments there that will evaporate.

They will collapse.

We have a virtual free hit with the military and clowns causing economic chaos in the country we have nothing to loose and everything to gain.

The military s job is to safeguard its people only.

No interference in civilian activities.

It is because of this rogue callous attitude of allowing military interference that has cost us greatly.

The cycle has to be broken for good.

But for that sacrifice's will have to be made.

 

[ask_analyse_act]

Ever since Babar and Rizwan started playing as openers, this 14 runs was the lowest pp score ever for pakistan

And babar and rizwan were not even there

In the OP the 3rd lowest was with Rizbar in the side I blv. A comparison of avg PP score when Rizbar opens against top 8 teams away from home vs the other teams in the same scenario.
I’m sure it would 30-40 where as other teams would be atleast 45+

 

[Shoaib Akhtar 100 MPH]

Kya chawlain maar raha eh? What does game awareness have to do with foreign or home conditions? He was facing Ish Sodhi…not Rangana Herath at Galle

How are you judging a player after 1 T20 match.???

 

[Ahmed216]

This poster is obsessed with glorified Tullebaaz who can hit a six . Anyone who can hit a six is his favourite player

You need techniques and game awareness to play fearless cricket Which is why current Indian team is successful.

THe way Pakistan youngsters were played today , it was nothing short of embarrassment for a Test playing nations like Pakistan who has Rich history behind in the World cricket.

Any team can out for lower Total but mode of dismissal is matter the most.

But nothing will happen to Pakistan cricket because they like the Mediocrity and Tullebaaz players

As i said earlier you can changed the player but result will be not changed untill pakistan fix Their system.

Top post brother. You make a lot of sense

 

[Farabi]

We have people here who believe he's the best opener in Asia @Farabi

@RizwanT20Champ Mohd Haris is going to be the best T20I opener in Asia.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Two of the top 4 have to bat 25 to 30 balls aiming to score 45 to 50 runs. Whta are the odds everyone is failing every single time. That is the worst case scenario.

 

[Farabi]

Would be a mistake imo. Pakistan need all 3 of Saim, Babar and Fakhar in 2026

I don't see anybody capable of replacing someone like Babar in the short term .

Maybe Rizwan can be replaced by Mo. Haris.

Too many changes and this team will get completely beaten out of sight like today.

Says who? That’s an unwarranted negative outlook. There’s some exciting raw talent in the Pakistani T20I circuit. It just needs to be backed.

Also, Pakistan’s problem has never been raw talent, it’s been sustaining that talent by creating the right environment around players.

 

[Farabi]

The beating isn't a surprise. We may win the odd game but this team looks very average( to put it mildly). But those of us that kept saying that the team playing was the best available, but no they Said, Babar and Riz are the problem and if they went, the World would be flowing with milk and honey. Well they have their wish. Let's stick to this team and give them some capital

I understand. But I think we should give them some time, we shouldn’t reach definitive conclusions. Saim Ayub looked pretty average for 25 or so games, and then started to find his feet.
I think we need to give them some time. All of these players are talented T20I players and have the raw skills.

 

[ask_analyse_act]

People accepting that there is no replacement fro babar in Pakistan. LOL

Indeed there is no replacement for Babar in Pakistan , what is LOL about it.. The dreams of Nafay, Nawaz, Samad, Haris, Agha and all cant come close to replacing Babar , will be thrashed like this today..

Babar is not scoring runs tht he used to few years ago , but never ever he looked like the ones that played today, cannot connect bat with ball and play a front foot stroke thats the quality available for replacement , with an ounce of cricket sense can say these are no match to replace Babar in Pakistan... I agree babar didnt play with intent but he is there for taking against anyone, Babar will return to the team i hope after this series and the msg to him would be clear whether he opens or plays at no.3 play with intent...

He was doing well at no.3 last year and is the reason why Pak put score in excess of 150 regularly though they lost 4-1 it was the bowling that was simply terrible even from the captain himself that led to 4-1 and from then on its Naqvi's whole **** of drama Babar, Hafeez, Kirsten, Gillespie, Amir, Imad, Rizwan, Aaqib, Shadab, Agha, Haris, each name tells a storu ...

 

[ask_analyse_act]

Says who? That’s an unwarranted negative outlook. There’s some exciting raw talent in the Pakistani T20I circuit. It just needs to be backed.

Also, Pakistan’s problem has never been raw talent, it’s been sustaining that talent by creating the right environment around players.

the raw talent cupboard is simply empty now... They all now cut from a cloth which is discarded long long time ago in intl cricket...

The gap between Pak domestic and Intl is like an ocean in between...

 

[Farabi]

the raw talent cupboard is simply empty now... They all now cut from a cloth which is discarded long long time ago in intl cricket...

The gap between Pak domestic and Intl is like an ocean in between...

That is not true. You are over reacting to one off game. Pakistan continues to produce exciting raw talent. The environment is not able to sustain them.

 

[shah9425]

I am backing these guys

One match is not a gauge for performance

Cmon young lads make us proud

 

[baba ghazi]

After the seniors won us the t20 world cup, our t20 team was completely reformed, that team lost its first match vs Zimbabwe.

A lot of Indian fans were jumping from the rooftops and blaming the Team Management for this 180 change, fast forward to now and they have become the most exciting t20 team in the world with match winners from 1 to 11.

I know that Pakistan doesn’t carry the same talent that we have, but this is t20 cricket and all these players are in their early twenties or mid twenties, they have the right attitude, they will collapse from time to time but will definitely show more promise than that Rizbar team.

Once Saim and Fakhar are back, this Unit will have a set structure and they will show better results.

when did fakhar ever play well in T20's?

 

[Bewal Express]

I understand. But I think we should give them some time, we shouldn’t reach definitive conclusions. Saim Ayub looked pretty average for 25 or so games, and then started to find his feet.
I think we need to give them some time. All of these players are talented T20I players and have the raw skills.

That's what I said. They won't be any better but as we chosen them, let's give them a proper run.

 

[ask_analyse_act]

After the seniors won us the t20 world cup, our t20 team was completely reformed, that team lost its first match vs Zimbabwe.

A lot of Indian fans were jumping from the rooftops and blaming the Team Management for this 180 change, fast forward to now and they have become the most exciting t20 team in the world with match winners from 1 to 11.

I know that Pakistan doesn’t carry the same talent that we have, but this is t20 cricket and all these players are in their early twenties or mid twenties, they have the right attitude, they will collapse from time to time but will definitely show more promise than that Rizbar team.

Once Saim and Fakhar are back, this Unit will have a set structure and they will show better results.

Exactly 100% agree..

 

[jnaveen1980]

when did fakhar ever play well in T20's?

I always thought about this. Fakhar needs a bit of time to get going. We get confused with ability and adaptability. As per his career he scores 28 runs in 21 balls on an average in power play.

 

[ask_analyse_act]

Ever since Babar and Rizwan started playing as openers, this 14 runs was the lowest pp score ever for pakistan

And babar and rizwan were not even there

If it was sorted by RPO column, they are the second last in that list.. If they can bring it above 8.5 that would be great...This chart was from an year ago...

This is another pic of what they have done as openers during their prime time in full form when they even defeated India by 10 wickets, may be this PP got to their head to play slowly with no intent...



Collected these specifically for Rizbar lovers and haters..

 

[baba ghazi]

I always thought about this. Fakhar needs a bit of time to get going. We get confused with ability and adaptability. As per his career he scores 28 runs in 21 balls on an average in power play.

fakhar has a strike rate of 132 with average of 22...babar has a strike rate of 129 with average of 39..who is the better play
er?

 

[ask_analyse_act]

Todays match was clearly lack of match awareness issue, they were told to adopt bang bang from get go culture and they just did it... If at all had some sense to play out the first few overs cautiously to see off the pace, swing and bounce they would have got this sorted...

 

[Cricket Warrior]

so in other words "Jithon di khoti uthay aan khloti"

 

[Farabi]

That's what I said. They won't be any better but as we chosen them, let's give them a proper run.

Yup! If you look at Haris, HassanN, SaimA, AbdusS, IrfanK, they are all natural hitters of the ball. They have the raw skills.
Hagley Oval has always been a tricky venue for Pakistanis, and I think these lads will do better in favorable conditions in Asia.

 

[Josh]

Such collapse can happen with the best teams as well. So much meaningless criticism based on 1 game in an irrelevant bilateral series.

 

[Major]

Such collapse can happen with the best teams as well. So much meaningless criticism based on 1 game in an irrelevant bilateral series.

14/4 in pp?


The whole Babar and RIzwan criticism was the powerplay aspect.

Now i have been give some bs about oh how its a young team, and how Fakhar and Ayub would had done wonders.

Shadab, Haris, Shaheen, Khusdil, Salman have played matches for Pakistan. Haris was playing his 16th game for the national team.

 

[ask_analyse_act]

That is not true. You are over reacting to one off game. Pakistan continues to produce exciting raw talent. The environment is not able to sustain them.

talent is seen when playing against each other in domestics , when come to intl cricket they shine for a while and then get vanished away... Saim is the new wonderboy , after 2-3 years he will also be like those of Abdullah Shafique...

Only Fakhar , Babar and Rizwan have survived in the last 5 years, even Babar is on a poor run of form now...

Give some pakistani player debuted during the same time as KL Rahul , Shreyas Iyer, Rishab Pant , SKY , Marnus, Travis head , Bairstow, who are still playing... Ever since the 2019 WC they still couldn't find solid middle order players until Agha made 130 recently against SA in the tri series..

 

[Rana]

PAK vs NZ Cricket Scorecard, 2nd T20I at Rawalpindi, April 20, 2024

Get cricket scorecard of 2nd T20I, PAK vs NZ, Pakistan vs New Zealand 2024 at Rawalpindi Cricket Stadium dated April 20, 2024.

www.espncricinfo.com

@mominsaigol @topspin @RyanRyan10 @jnaveen1980 @Dr_Bassim @TheSultan


Did cricket die this day for New Zealand?

 

[Major]

PAK vs NZ Cricket Scorecard, 2nd T20I at Rawalpindi, April 20, 2024

Get cricket scorecard of 2nd T20I, PAK vs NZ, Pakistan vs New Zealand 2024 at Rawalpindi Cricket Stadium dated April 20, 2024.

www.espncricinfo.com

@mominsaigol @topspin @RyanRyan10 @jnaveen1980 @Dr_Bassim @TheSultan


Did cricket die this day for New Zealand?

nz b Team vs full strength pakistan

 

[Farabi]

talent is seen when playing against each other in domestics , when come to intl cricket they shine for a while and then get vanished away... Saim is the new wonderboy , after 2-3 years he will also be like those of Abdullah Shafique...

Only Fakhar , Babar and Rizwan have survived in the last 5 years, even Babar is on a poor run of form now...

Give some pakistani player debuted during the same time as KL Rahul , Shreyas Iyer, Rishab Pant , SKY , Marnus, Travis head , Bairstow, who are still playing... Ever since the 2019 WC they still couldn't find solid middle order players until Agha made 130 recently against SA in the tri series..

You’re also pointing out that talent isn’t the issue. The issue isn’t talent but talent management. If players survive 2-3 years, the raw ability is there. The problem is they stop improving once settled due to frequent coaching changes, weak technical support, and lack of competition. India and Australia ensure stability, top facilities, and constant pressure for spots. Put Saim, Abdullah S., Shaheen, or Naseem in those systems, and they’d thrive. Talent isn’t Pakistan’s problem. It’s lack of systems and planning to sustain it.

 

[topspin]

PAK vs NZ Cricket Scorecard, 2nd T20I at Rawalpindi, April 20, 2024

Get cricket scorecard of 2nd T20I, PAK vs NZ, Pakistan vs New Zealand 2024 at Rawalpindi Cricket Stadium dated April 20, 2024.

www.espncricinfo.com

@mominsaigol @topspin @RyanRyan10 @jnaveen1980 @Dr_Bassim @TheSultan


Did cricket die this day for New Zealand?

An excellent find. All it took was one piece of research to end this dumb thread right here.

Just goes to show this knee jerk reaction isn't needed at all except for Misbah/Rizwan/Babar fans, who are more concerned about doing PR for their cult leaders.

 

[Josh]

14/4 in pp?


The whole Babar and RIzwan criticism was the powerplay aspect.

Now i have been give some bs about oh how its a young team, and how Fakhar and Ayub would had done wonders.

Shadab, Haris, Shaheen, Khusdil, Salman have played matches for Pakistan. Haris was playing his 16th game for the national team.

except couple of these guys, it's a fairly new T20 team and Pakistan is taking a right direction by experimenting and finding out right players. If all fail, it's not like Babar and Rizwan are going to say no for the T20 team. Babar and Rizwan have been poor in T20. Coach Aqib must be looking to find the right players for T20 world cup.

 

[Markhor]

Rizwan and Babar were accomodated for years as T20 openers, it was time to move on.

That said we shouldn't start doling Pakistan caps out like sweets at a birthday. It's ridiculous seeing players with barely any domestic or international pedigree selected for one of the hardest away tours.

This cliche about building a new team and accepting some defeats makes sense if the players have potential.

Hasan Nawaz isn't good enough for Pakistan Shaheens let alone Pakistan. His T20 record consists of an average of 22 and a whopping SR of 130. One good Champions Cup shouldn't mask a dismal overall record.

Abdul Samad has a better SR of 140 but averages 17. Hasn't played PSL which despite its flaws is Pakistan's premier T20 competition and should be the intermediate step for youngsters before international cricket.

The great hope Mohammad Haris has a decent domestic record but averages 12 at 120 SR after 10 T20Is.

As for the senior players ? Khushdil Shah averages 19 at 108 SR after 28 T20Is. And our captain Salman Agha has played 83 T20s and possesses a mindblowing avg of 18 at 115 SR.

It's unlucky Fakhar and Saim are unavailable but the selectors have made a mockery of international cricket, and it'll be a miracle if we win one match in this series. NZ fans would've been treated to a more competitive spectacle had they invited Zimbabwe at Hagley Oval yesterday.

 

[Rana]

Who is this Jonny Depp umpire?

 

[shaz619]

Rizwan and Babar were accomodated for years as T20 openers, it was time to move on.

That said we shouldn't start doling Pakistan caps out like sweets at a birthday. It's ridiculous seeing players with barely any domestic or international pedigree selected for one of the hardest away tours.

This cliche about building a new team and accepting some defeats makes sense if the players have potential.

Hasan Nawaz isn't good enough for Pakistan Shaheens let alone Pakistan. His T20 record consists of an average of 22 and a whopping SR of 130. One good Champions Cup shouldn't mask a dismal overall record.

Abdul Samad has a better SR of 140 but averages 17. Hasn't played PSL which despite its flaws is Pakistan's premier T20 competition and should be the intermediate step for youngsters before international cricket.

The great hope Mohammad Haris has a decent domestic record but averages 12 at 120 SR after 10 T20Is.

As for the senior players ? Khushdil Shah averages 19 at 108 SR after 28 T20Is. And our captain Salman Agha has played 83 T20s and possesses a mindblowing avg of 18 at 115 SR.

It's unlucky Fakhar and Saim are unavailable but the selectors have made a mockery of international cricket, and it'll be a miracle if we win one match in this series. NZ fans would've been treated to a more competitive spectacle had they invited Zimbabwe at Hagley Oval yesterday.

I think it’s about balance which we rarely see, I don’t mind picking players on potential and using these series to develop them further, even for countries with superior set-ups then ours, this is what they do. England have given opportunities to players with average stats as well in T20I’s, but they came good after being given a long rope and were more receptive to the changes required in modern cricket. Haris is the only 360 player in Pakistan and while he doesn’t have great numbers now, he did have a good T20 WC and we need to ask why he has been in obscurity for so long. I do agree we shouldn’t hand caps to any monkey off the street, but players are rarely picked to succeed in our current toxic environment, we pick players to fail so the TTF’s can make their epic comebacks to the team; take Salman for example, he has no business playing T20’s let alone being a captain so we need to ponder if his position was made with good intentions; I want to back him and this group because they are the best hopes we have at a brighter future, even if they are flawed; now that they are here I pray we give them a fair shake. The alternative am afraid would be a return to the apocalyptic Pakistan multi-verse we can never escape.

 

[shaz619]

Don’t forget how pathetic Misbah picked kids to play Test cricket in Australia purely as a retort to criticisms surrounding players he personally favoured. This is how Pakistan cricket functions, on Misbah’s draconian ideologies and bigoted village idiot culture. @Markhor

 

[Rana]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1901100440537661447

@shaz619

 

[shaz619]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1901100440537661447

@shaz619

Lmao and his old man will miss him about as much as Chris Eubank Snr cares about Eubank Jnr

 

[Rana]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1901098027487817949

 

[RyanRyan10]

Pakistan under saviour Misbah against a mediocre WI side on the same venue

@Rana @topspin

 

[Rana]

Pakistan under saviour Misbah against a mediocre WI side on the same venue

@Rana @topspin

@Major what’s this?

 

[topspin]

@Major what’s this?

Cricket heritage

 

[Hawkeye]

It’s fine.

Early days. Foreign conditions. Learning to walk and stand up on their feet. To become a side that conforms to modern standards.

Same guys are desperate now who wanted Saim Ayub dropped because he wouldn’t play like Rizwan or Babar even if he got out early!

Have to let go of all previous pathetic baggage. It’s gonna take some time.

The RIZWAN era resulted in 6-7 continuous ICC events losses.

The new era will be better.

 

[Major]

@Major what’s this?

Yes we all know how much of a garbage player Younis Khan was in odis

 

[Rana]

I am backing these guys

One match is not a gauge for performance

Cmon young lads make us proud

Bro do us a favour and not back them. We have seen how things turn out for those who you back.

 

[Devadwal]

It’s fine.

Early days. Foreign conditions. Learning to walk and stand up on their feet. To become a side that conforms to modern standards.

Same guys are desperate now who wanted Saim Ayub dropped because he wouldn’t play like Rizwan or Babar even if he got out early!

Have to let go of all previous pathetic baggage. It’s gonna take some time.

The RIZWAN era resulted in 6-7 continuous ICC events losses.

The new era will be better.

But problem is that Pakistan building a team of hitters aka Tullebaaz who swing blindly without any technique and knowing basics of hitting the balls .

 

[RizwanT20Champ]

Some people here like Misses India @Devadwal and no 1 rizzu supporter @RizwanT20Champ you yourself richie rich kashmiri @jamie smith call Travis Head a tulla, Steve smith a stat padder, and Bradman a world war 2 fraud not realising that none of the batters in today's era would even avg 5 runs in that era since their technique, training, and stroke play doesn't work with those woodchipper bats, and those rubbish equipments.

Good luck trying to sweep, cut, or play cutesy dabs down to 3rd fine leg in the 1930's.

So no, I don't take such comments seriously.

I wrote an entire post as to what hacks are and all types of Hacks in cricket and sadly only 5 to 10 posters agreed and understood.

The rest were interpreting the text as if I wrote some ancient sanskrit text in Latin and encoded it in zodiac symbols.

Bro, Head is a tulla but not relevant here. We need your inputs on how Pak can fix this shambles post Rizbar in T20. Your insights are the only thing that can save Pak cricket here in this dark era post Rizbar.

 

[JaDed]

Actually SSA deserves way more criticism for bowling such trash in conditions favouring swing.

 

[RizwanT20Champ]

What did we do last year with those 2 in NZ?

We got them.out for 90 and chased it in 12 overs with Riz typically launching once set.

 

[mominsaigol]

Bro, Head is a tulla but not relevant here. We need your inputs on how Pak can fix this shambles post Rizbar in T20. Your insights are the only thing that can save Pak cricket here in this dark era post Rizbar.

Ik you're being sarcastic however I've stated this before.

A) Take pak cricket back to UAE, Pakistani pitches are in zero conditions to develop FC, t20 and list A cricketers.

B) After taking them to uae, choose players who have solid technique + right attitude like saim ayub and you'll develop good players.

 

[RizwanT20Champ]

Ik you're being sarcastic however I've stated this before.

A) Take pak cricket back to UAE, Pakistani pitches are in zero conditions to develop FC, t20 and list A cricketers.

B) After taking them to uae, choose players who have solid technique + right attitude like saim ayub and you'll develop good players.

No sarcasm bro. That's a very good suggestion indeed. We should ask PCB to start playing in the UAE once again.

 

[FastBowlingAllrounder]

14/4 in the Power Play is the 2nd worst for Pakistan.

We were told around here how Babar and Rizwan are making this team weak and not allowing us reach our true potential. World beaters like Haris were being kept out etc.

Pakistan were 1/3. At one point even I was confused whether the scoring format had been changed.

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Lol, if you expect results in just one match then perhaps the real fool is you and not the jobbers doing the batting.

 

[mominsaigol]

Bro, Head is a tulla but not relevant here. We need your inputs on how Pak can fix this shambles post Rizbar in T20. Your insights are the only thing that can save Pak cricket here in this dark era post Rizbar.

Head is not a tulla, he has proper cricketing strokes, technique wise he's a better player of pace then anyone in pakistan cricket atm and that includes fakhar and Saim.

While he's not a great player of spin he's still > pretty much every Pakistani batsmen except maybe slog sweep fakhar.

His front foot and backfoot is better as well.

However the issue with Travis head is that unlike his peers before him specifically Warner and Gilly, Head doesn't know how to structure an innings. He only knows how to play one way which is to bash endlessly.

As a result he gets dismissed more easily then the others. He just doesn't know how to slow down, however that's not a bad thing because the day he kicks off its game over for the opposition.

So in Head's case I'm glad Australia has found a player who just doesn't know how to slow down. If Australia had 7 Travis Head like batters in their side, then they'd be the best odi side in the world and probably the best t20 batting side being comparative to current India.

They'd be a crap test side though, which is why one Head is fine in test lol.

Head competitor is Warner and gilly and to see if he can surpass them which he likely won't but talent wise he's in their ball park.

Talent wise babar azam at his absolute peak is on par with current era Joe root, current era Steve smith in odi. However root from 2016-2019 is > any era babar in odi, same with 2014-2021 Steve smith in odi.

Current babar isn't even Labu level in odi lol. The entire aussie batting team except for copper connely and maybe current maxwell whos washed up is > Babar as a batsmen. Head, Marsh, Labu, Smith, carey, Inglis are all significantly > Babar as batsmen and tbf, Head and Marsh are > Any era babar.

Rizwan talent wise is toothless. He's a better odi batsmen then Misbah, and talent wise I would say he's around on par with the likes of Ollie pope or maybe if I'm being generous, Bavuma as an odi batsmen although bavuma is better then rizwan.

One credit I'll give to rizwan is that unlike babar, Rizwan has atleast managed to improve year by year and currently he's better then saud shakeel, kamram ghulam and many others as an odi no 4 batsmen.

But please stop constantly trying to put babar and rizwan as equal to head and use stats as a metric.

One player is a HTB in tests and a wtc winner however hes a HTB in dens where even quality of atg batters like root avg 25. While babar and rizwan are much much worse then in their own dens. Babar avg 20 on his phatta track post ramiz era forced aqib to invent lottery pitches.

Then you in odi it isn't a comparison. His world cup 100 is > anything babar and rizwan can and ever will do on his career. And in t20 it isn't even a comparison.

Babar and rizwan are not kohli and Gilchrist that you'd compare qith head and I'd say that yes kohli and gilly are >. These are worthless players who've been elevated to a status by a delusional Pakistan community who still believes they are relevant in world cricket

 

[Major]

Lol, if you expect results in just one match then perhaps the real fool is you and not the jobbers doing the batting.

14/4.

 

[RizwanT20Champ]

Head is not a tulla, he has proper cricketing strokes, technique wise he's a better player of pace then anyone in pakistan cricket atm and that includes fakhar and Saim.

While he's not a great player of spin he's still > pretty much every Pakistani batsmen except maybe slog sweep fakhar.

His front foot and backfoot is better as well.

However the issue with Travis head is that unlike his peers before him specifically Warner and Gilly, Head doesn't know how to structure an innings. He only knows how to play one way which is to bash endlessly.

As a result he gets dismissed more easily then the others. He just doesn't know how to slow down, however that's not a bad thing because the day he kicks off its game over for the opposition.

So in Head's case I'm glad Australia has found a player who just doesn't know how to slow down. If Australia had 7 Travis Head like batters in their side, then they'd be the best odi side in the world and probably the best t20 batting side being comparative to current India.

They'd be a crap test side though, which is why one Head is fine in test lol.

Head competitor is Warner and gilly and to see if he can surpass them which he likely won't but talent wise he's in their ball park.

Talent wise babar azam at his absolute peak is on par with current era Joe root, current era Steve smith in odi. However root from 2016-2019 is > any era babar in odi, same with 2014-2021 Steve smith in odi.

Current babar isn't even Labu level in odi lol. The entire aussie batting team except for copper connely and maybe current maxwell whos washed up is > Babar as a batsmen. Head, Marsh, Labu, Smith, carey, Inglis are all significantly > Babar as batsmen and tbf, Head and Marsh are > Any era babar.

Rizwan talent wise is toothless. He's a better odi batsmen then Misbah, and talent wise I would say he's around on par with the likes of Ollie pope or maybe if I'm being generous, Bavuma as an odi batsmen although bavuma is better then rizwan.

One credit I'll give to rizwan is that unlike babar, Rizwan has atleast managed to improve year by year and currently he's better then saud shakeel, kamram ghulam and many others as an odi no 4 batsmen.

But please stop constantly trying to put babar and rizwan as equal to head and use stats as a metric.

One player is a HTB in tests and a wtc winner however hes a HTB in dens where even quality of atg batters like root avg 25. While babar and rizwan are much much worse then in their own dens. Babar avg 20 on his phatta track post ramiz era forced aqib to invent lottery pitches.

Then you in odi it isn't a comparison. His world cup 100 is > anything babar and rizwan can and ever will do on his career. And in t20 it isn't even a comparison.

Babar and rizwan are not kohli and Gilchrist that you'd compare qith head and I'd say that yes kohli and gilly are >. These are worthless players who've been elevated to a status by a delusional Pakistan community who still believes they are relevant in world cricket

Very articulate bro. You have convinced me here. However what I still struggle with is why Head averages in the 20s in the den of Rizbar? This is the kind of thing which keeps me up at night.

 

[Greenstorm]

I think Babar is equally harmful in a different way. He eats up more than 50% of the deliveries. I bet many can do the same if they play long enough. Go slowly for 10 or 15 overs hit a 4 or 6 in the end make up for sR somewhat. HIhg risk games comes with inconsistency. This is why you need solid players with top gear. Pakistan has none at this point. Babar's top gear cannot be 3 or 4 given that he ends up facing more than half the overs. T20 is a harder format than ODI to be impactful. In one dayers you can catch up as plenty of overs left. Probably the easiest format for any batsman. Best case scenario for Pakistan was Babar himself becoming an aggressive batsman like Shai Hope recently turned himself into one. But Babar never stepped outside his comfort zone.

M Yousuf said the same thing few days ago when asked about M Harris. He said that he takes a lot of risk otherwise he can easily avg more in T20s if he starts batting like some others (clearly pointing at Riz-Babar). Opening in T20s is easy and even tullaybaaz can have decent avg if they start playing selfishly.