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148 dead after Taliban massacre at Army Public School in Peshawar

shaykh said:
Not an apologist at all...and my many posts generally would show that...I find their actions deplorable...but its all too simple to say they are barbarians etc...its worth asking whether both sides are fighting dirty or not...

You yourself are presuming that anyone living in those areas is a supporter and thus a legitimate target...its a problematic position to take...

The definition of civilian is far too narrow now...the question as i raised wasnt about armed children...rather about unarmed children...the position you seem to have taken is anyone in those areas is a legitimate target including the children...so is it any wonder when a response comes like this?...
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There aren't many civilians over there right now, a million people have left the tribal agencies and have moved into camps.

There are also many foreigners there like Chechens and Uzbeks.
 
Feel really sorry for every single person's loss in this horrific attack. I really want Pakistani public to force a total wipe-out of these demons.
 
Painful news for anybody with a conscience, and hope the attackers rot in hell. But I do wish the Mamoon would stop trying to cheap political points.
 
Dr_Bassim said:
If they didn't want hundreds to die, they should have surrendered.

The government of Pakistan, has right to take any action necessary, to quell disturbances which undermine the government, and that is in the Constitution of Pakistan.

If they TTP or Taliban hide behind children , it's their own fault. They are not the one running the government. They have to abide and if they don't want, they have to accept damages.

Pakistan cannot and should not be held ransom to demands of a tribal agency of tribal region.
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We have rules on conduct of war for a reason...a decent parallel is Chechnya...the Russians have never been interested in discriminate force...they had no problem killing women and children and made no pretenses about that...thus when one shows no interest in following just war principles then it becomes difficult to claim a moral high ground when the enemy responds in kind...

Proportionality is a principle of war...unarmed women and children are not legitimate targets...but one gets the feeling that no-one is interested in these principles...
 
I am so sorry to anyone on PP with losses. This is absolutely shocking and deplorable. Heavens help Pakistan :(
 
Condolences go out to all affected, stay strong [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] and hawkeye and any others I missed in the thread.
 
I am so close to tears after watching the news from today's despicable attack.

This is probably one of the blackest days in Pakistan's history, certainly the most barbaric terrorist attack ever in Pakistan that I can remember.

I want to send my condolences to all the families, especially those in this thread (Hawkeye and Mamoon) who have lost relatives.

We just need to think about the people affected today. Tomorrow and the day after we can talk and discuss the ramifications and the actions that needs to follow to stop such vile attacks in the future.

Lets all unite for once and show 1 voice against these brainwashed misguided militants.
 
shaykh said:
Not an apologist at all...and my many posts generally would show that...I find their actions deplorable...but its all too simple to say they are barbarians etc...its worth asking whether both sides are fighting dirty or not...

You yourself are presuming that anyone living in those areas is a supporter and thus a legitimate target...its a problematic position to take...

The definition of civilian is far too narrow now...the question as i raised wasnt about armed children...rather about unarmed children...the position you seem to have taken is anyone in those areas is a legitimate target including the children...so is it any wonder when a response comes like this?...
Click to expand...

This is just my opinion and people can agree or disagree. You know I respect you Shaykh, from talking to you on countless threads, and I think you are a good bloke who is fair and always seeking the truth. I feel like this might be the wrong thread and the wrong time, and might elicit the wrong responses driven by emotion not reason. Once people have had a chance to digest then the hows and whys they may be in a better mental state to consider those things in intelligent debate. Just my 2c. :)
 
News reporting another blast in same school. ALLAH please help us against these animals
 
shaykh said:
We have rules on conduct of war for a reason...a decent parallel is Chechnya...the Russians have never been interested in discriminate force...they had no problem killing women and children and made no pretenses about that...thus when one shows no interest in following just war principles then it becomes difficult to claim a moral high ground when the enemy responds in kind...

Proportionality is a principle of war...unarmed women and children are not legitimate targets...but one gets the feeling that no-one is interested in these principles...
Click to expand...


So what do you do suppose those monsters decide to hide behind their own woman and children?

Follow the rules and wait for them to emerge?

It's all good if they want to fight but I seriously doubt that they want to fight the army of Pakistan.

They want to hide in 20 feet below ground caves with their families to flee the army.

When one is not ready to surrender, and wants to use civilians for protection, its unfair to say that collateral damage was not called for.

No one wants to kill children and woman. No one.

But when one wants to hide behind them in big caves and mountain tunnels, then you have no choice.

If they are so brave, they should come out and fight.

But they don't.

So what rule would you follow?



Even if Pakistan Army is wrong, nothing gives any human any right to kill children. No God will forgive that. And these people think they will be forgiven?

Lol.

Stop apologizing for these people.
 
Always on the receiving end of sympathy, we are. The typical bechaare and mazloom of the world. Every week condemnations pouring in...World crying at our Malalas and our children. I always cringe when our winning captain announces to dedicate the victory to those martyred and so on....Moments of silence held around the world for news from our country. But for some, this bechaargi is precisely the picture they need to go begging for more $ and aid in WOT.

I don't know for how long we will contiune to be in a state of despair and for how long world will weep at such events in our country? Will Pakistan ever make world news for some positive happening?
 
LegendInzi said:
Always on the receiving end of sympathy, we are. The typical bechaare and mazloom of the world. Every week condemnations pouring in...World crying at our Malalas and our children. I always cringe when our winning captain announces to dedicate the victory to those martyred and so on....Moments of silence held around the world for news from our country. But for some, this bechaargi is precisely the picture they need to go begging for more $ and aid in WOT.

I don't know for how long we will contiune to be in a state of despair and for how long world will weep at such events in our country? Will Pakistan ever make world news for some positive happening?
Click to expand...

InshaAllah we will.
 
LegendInzi said:
Always on the receiving end of sympathy, we are. The typical bechaare and mazloom of the world. Every week condemnations pouring in...World crying at our Malalas and our children. I always cringe when our winning captain announces to dedicate the victory to those martyred and so on....Moments of silence held around the world for news from our country. But for some, this bechaargi is precisely the picture they need to go begging for more $ and aid in WOT.

I don't know for how long we will contiune to be in a state of despair and for how long world will weep at such events in our country? Will Pakistan ever make world news for some positive happening?
Click to expand...

It will happen. But sometimes for right things to happen you have to do the right things. For doing the right things, you have to be truthful about current situation and see things as they are.
 
Someone searched for the Facebook ID of one of the martyrs and look what he found. Look at the smile on his face RIP kid

B4_NqrICQAMWxLO.jpg:large
 
Utterly devastated and heart broken. Still, I hate to admit but I'm not shocked or surprised on hearing about this tragic incident. The retched monsters belonging to TTP have spilled innocent blood before. They have targeted schools and killed children before. They have repeatedly shown their propensity for senseless violence yet, we still have elements in our society who apologize for them. Who lend them moral support. Who look for explanations in the the brutal methods used by them to exert influence.

It's a shame that it took us this long to launch a concerted action against them. By this time the senses have become numb, our hearts black with apathy, our vision blurred with indecision and confusion. How many more tragedies like this have to happen before we finally stand united. Meanwhile innocent blood cries out in vain.

Allow me to end on this verse from Faiz which rings true more than ever before.

Pukarta raha be aasra yatim lahu
Kisi ko bahr-e-samaat na waqt tha na dimagh
Na muddai, na shahadat, hisab paak hua
Yeh khoon-e-khak-e-nasheenan tha, rizq-e-khak hua
 
Terrorists storm Peshawar school -- 126 dead -- 500 students & teachers still inside

Heart-breaking scenes! Have been following it right from the minute I woke up and all I can say is that no human-being can do this, irrespective of beliefs.

May all the those who have lost their lives rest in peace. Amen.
 
OZGOD said:
This is just my opinion and people can agree or disagree. You know I respect you Shaykh, from talking to you on countless threads, and I think you are a good bloke who is fair and always seeking the truth. I feel like this might be the wrong thread and the wrong time, and might elicit the wrong responses driven by emotion not reason. Once people have had a chance to digest then the hows and whys they may be in a better mental state to consider those things in intelligent debate. Just my 2c. :)
Click to expand...

Tbf its the emotional responses which kind of led to my response...all this talk of wiping them out and their supporters...and the talk of there being no civilians left in Waziristan is a concerning perspective...ie the hundreds that died there are all legitimate targets...but you are probably right...better to have these discussions another time...
 
IK and NS to sit together and talk regarding this matter. Good to see both putting their differences aside and thinking about the country.
 
saadibaba said:
Utterly devastated and heart broken. Still, I hate to admit but I'm not shocked or surprised on hearing about this tragic incident. The retched monsters belonging to TTP have spilled innocent blood before. They have targeted schools and killed children before. They have repeatedly shown their propensity for senseless violence yet, we still have elements in our society who apologize for them. Who lend them moral support. Who look for explanations in the the brutal methods used by them to exert influence.

It's a shame that it took us this long to launch a concerted action against them. By this time the senses have become numb, our hearts black with apathy, our vision blurred with indecision and confusion. How many more tragedies like this have to happen before we finally stand united. Meanwhile innocent blood cries out in vain.

Allow me to end on this verse from Faiz which rings true more than ever before.

Pukarta raha be aasra yatim lahu
Kisi ko bahr-e-samaat na waqt tha na dimagh
Na muddai, na shahadat, hisab paak hua
Yeh khoon-e-khak-e-nasheenan tha, rizq-e-khak hua
Click to expand...

My heart is in pieces. Keep seeing those kids and then looking at my kids..had a bad day today!!
 
Dr_Bassim said:
So what do you do suppose those monsters decide to hide behind their own woman and children?

Follow the rules and wait for them to emerge?

It's all good if they want to fight but I seriously doubt that they want to fight the army of Pakistan.

They want to hide in 20 feet below ground caves with their families to flee the army.

When one is not ready to surrender, and wants to use civilians for protection, its unfair to say that collateral damage was not called for.

No one wants to kill children and woman. No one.

But when one wants to hide behind them in big caves and mountain tunnels, then you have no choice.

If they are so brave, they should come out and fight.

But they don't.

So what rule would you follow?



Even if Pakistan Army is wrong, nothing gives any human any right to kill children. No God will forgive that. And these people think they will be forgiven?

Lol.

Stop apologizing for these people.
Click to expand...

There is no apology here...I don't defend the actions of the Chechens either...but the issue is one of conduct of war...you mention that no-one has the right to kill children and that is precisely my point...the Taliban certainly have no right to do it...but neither do the army...but the issue I have raised is children aren't classed as children when its the enemy...if one reads what Al Kapone has written...no-one is Waziristan is a civilian...you see how this is problematic?...

Armies face these problems with guerrillas/terrorists all the time...this doesnt mean they don't have to conduct themselves correctly...
 
shaykh said:
There is no apology here...I don't defend the actions of the Chechens either...but the issue is one of conduct of war...you mention that no-one has the right to kill children and that is precisely my point...the Taliban certainly have no right to do it...but neither do the army...but the issue I have raised is children aren't classed as children when its the enemy...if one reads what Al Kapone has written...no-one is Waziristan is a civilian...you see how this is problematic?...

Armies face these problems with guerrillas/terrorists all the time...this doesnt mean they don't have to conduct themselves correctly...
Click to expand...

If Pakistan Army have killed children and women then they should be held accountable.

We know for sure that Talibans have killed children and women.
 
srh said:
If Pakistan Army have killed children and women then they should be held accountable.

We know for sure that Talibans have killed children and women.
Click to expand...

Which is kinda my point really...

Very little is revealed about who dies in Waziristan nor does it appear to matter...the general position it seems is if civilians die then its the TTP's fault and some suggest that civilians don't live there anymore...ie EVERYONE is a legitimate target...

Drone death statistics are down and this is because the definition has changed...so a combatant is any military aged male whether they are armed or not...its also been suggested that military age is considered under 18 so killing 'children' can be legitimized...

We know nothing about the 'hundreds' who died in Waziristan and this is a problem...the TTP are claiming that the Pakistani army are targeting unarmed men and the impression i get on here is people see no problem with that...there is a big difference between collateral damage/making decisions based on proportionality etc and simply deciding civilians don't exist and children are legitimate targets...
 
can they ever capture these barbarians alive and humiliate them in front of the country and find some more information like what the **** was going through their filthy brains
 
Please don't post images of any kind of the dead. It's horrific either way.

The army claims 132 students and 9 staff killed.

Military airstrikes underway, 10 airstrikes to be exact in the past hour.
 
I have no words. I can only quote Steinbeck: "There is a sorrow here that weeping cannot symbolise. There is a crime here that goes beyond denunciation."
 
My second cousin didn't make it. The whole family is in mourning. The blood boils and these animals still breathe free.
 
Terrorists storm Peshawar school -- 126 dead -- 500 students & teachers still inside

Guys, do not post pictures of any dead bodies etc., including those of the terrorists.

Basically, any image that looks disturbing.
 
Dr_Bassim said:
So what do you do suppose those monsters decide to hide behind their own woman and children?

Follow the rules and wait for them to emerge?

It's all good if they want to fight but I seriously doubt that they want to fight the army of Pakistan.

They want to hide in 20 feet below ground caves with their families to flee the army.

When one is not ready to surrender, and wants to use civilians for protection, its unfair to say that collateral damage was not called for.

No one wants to kill children and woman. No one.

But when one wants to hide behind them in big caves and mountain tunnels, then you have no choice.

If they are so brave, they should come out and fight.

But they don't.

So what rule would you follow?



Even if Pakistan Army is wrong, nothing gives any human any right to kill children. No God will forgive that. And these people think they will be forgiven?

Lol.

Stop apologizing for these people.
Click to expand...
Every decent human being want's scum like these Taliban wiped out. But when you know your actions are also likely to kill an innocent, whether an adult or a child, even an innocent member of a terrorists family, then you are no better than the terrorist and your crimes are no lesser than those of the terrorist.There is no such thing as 'collateral damage' if in the process of trying to take out a terrorist you are fully aware that it's likely you will also be killing innocents.

Sure, the terrorists may be using their own wives and children as human shields, but that still doesn't justify knowingly killing these innocents whilst trying to get those that you are after.

Murder is murder when the innocents are killed - whether by the terrorists or by those trying to get the terrorists.

You say you are a doctor. I'm surprised a doctor is prepared to see innocents die in the pursuit of the guilty.
 
And the people continue to live in their delusions. Bunch of madrassa standard educated colleagues making light of ttp claiming responsibility..
 
Terrorists storm Peshawar school -- 126 dead -- 500 students & teachers still inside

DW44 said:
My second cousin didn't make it. The whole family is in mourning. The blood boils and these animals still breathe free.
Click to expand...

Oh´ God! I am speechless!
 
DW44 said:
My second cousin didn't make it. The whole family is in mourning. The blood boils and these animals still breathe free.
Click to expand...

My commiserations for your loss DW44 :( May your cousin rest in peace.
 
I'm so sad right now. I really really feel for the parents and families that lost their beloved ones today. It will be a tough period for them.

A lot of shame to all those propaganda goons of terrorists and fundamentalists that defended them no matter what.

How low one can really go? You have to be worst creature to kill an innocent kids which is what all these terrorists pretending to be as Jihadis in Pakistan and Afghanistan are. These people are a burden on Muslims and the only thing is responsible for the creation of these pathetic humans beings are the Mudrassas and Maulvis that don't preach the true teachings of Islam and Prophet Muhammad PBUH.

Pakistan really needs to eradicate all this Mullah raj in this country. I really wish one day I hear all these pathetic brainwashers get killed like that. That will do Pakistan and Muslims a world of good.
 
Just got back, managed to donate blood.

Can't explain what I saw there, as a Medicine student I'm used to seeing all kinds of stuff but to see little children like that is just terrible.

Truly disturbed. Need a break.
 
Absolutely horrific. Utterly devastating news, sincere condolences to those who have lost loved ones.

Its hardly surprising considering who the perpetuaters are, what's important is Pakistani's don't fall for the foreign fighters scheme and demand justice as one against this barbaric enemy known as the Taliban. This is the time to not let the blood of these kids go in vein, Pak public need to stand up and ask for Madrasa's and Taliban sympathizers to either be held accountable or shut down completely.
 
Came into the thread to check up ok any local PPers to see if all is ok.
[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] hope you are doing ok bro.
 
A-1 said:
Took me hours to reach the hospitals and a few more to get back home. More blood required (especially O-). Though people have started showing up in numbers but IMO we need more and more volunteers.
Click to expand...

Mamoon said:
Just got back, managed to donate blood.

Can't explain what I saw there, as a Medicine student I'm used to seeing all kinds of stuff but to see little children like that is just terrible.

Truly disturbed. Need a break.
Click to expand...

Respect to both of you.
 
Hawkeye said:
One of my teachers who I dearly loved got martyred. She was gem of a person.

A friend's cousin got shot as well.
Click to expand...

Sorry to hear about your loss. Hopefully, your friend's cousin recover quickly.

Mamoon said:
The bodies of my relatives' kids have been identified. Unfortunately neither of them could make it.

Their mother fainted at the news.
Click to expand...

Commiserations for your loss. I don't have many words to say here.

DW44 said:
My second cousin didn't make it. The whole family is in mourning. The blood boils and these animals still breathe free.
Click to expand...

Commiserations for your loss W44. Be strong for others in your family.
 
Heart-breaking day.

So many emotions.....

So sad for the families who've lost loved ones.
 
DW44 said:
My second cousin didn't make it. The whole family is in mourning. The blood boils and these animals still breathe free.
Click to expand...

My condolences brother. May you and hundreds of others find strength to get through this.
 
I came back from from my 3 year old son's preschool and saw this horrible news. It will be the most horrible feelings for parents. A gut wrenching incident. I couldn't stop crying even though my son was right in front of me.

Hopefully, at grass root level there will be no support for terrorists after this horrible incident. I also hope that Pakistani Army will stop doing the nonsense of good terrorist and bad terrorist. If this kind of event doesn't change the mindset then situation is beyond repair.

Hopefully, all local PPers are safe. I can't imagine that kids went to school and left for morgue in such a large number. You have to be the lowest scum in earth to specifically target kids.
 
Very sorry to hear your losses. My prayers are with your family and all those who have suffered at the hands of these cowards.

May Allah grant you strength. Ameen.
 
I just got the news that the principal was burned alive for just being the wife of an army official.. Those monsters..
 
my sincere condolences on your loss fellows [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] [MENTION=134608]Hawkeye[/MENTION] [MENTION=26195]DW44[/MENTION]. Stay strong please, may God help you and your families to recover from this loss.
 
Thank you.

Heartbreaking picture posted by Sherlock. What was their fault?

Sheer madness.
 
My heart is shaken right now. I have exam in few hours.

My condolences to [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] [MENTION=7291]hawk[/MENTION]ey [MENTION=47000]Sherlock[/MENTION] And Anyone who have lost their loved ones.


Just few hours ago, we were debating about lockdown and all of the sudden, this unfortunate incident has transpired.
 
farazaidi said:
https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=783473168390717

This is the cancer of our country. I feel like tearing my hear out, the guy wont even condemn this incident. Lanat ho haram khor pe

All sympathizers of TTP like him should be executed with other jailed TTP soldiers, enough of this barbarism.
Click to expand...

I agree but unfortunately, we have one defensive leader [PMLN] and other who have soft corner for TTP. We need dictator who truly hates TTP to the core. Until then, this will go on. ;(
 
DW44 said:
My second cousin didn't make it. The whole family is in mourning. The blood boils and these animals still breathe free.
Click to expand...

speechless brother i am really sorry to hear about your loss we all are with you and we feel this pain inside
 
Fallen King said:
I agree but unfortunately, we have one defensive leader [PMLN] and other who have soft corner for TTP. We need dictator who truly hates TTP to the core. Until then, this will go on. ;(
Click to expand...

if this incident doesnt change them then I dont know what will. Each and every politician have to swear in front of media to eradicate this cancer and those who doesnt should be jailed. We need to come up with a legislation in this regard, all TTP sympathizers should be jailed and this guy Abdul Aziz should be executed really !
 
I was expecting something like this after the military operation in FATA. Think worse is to be expected.
 
farazaidi said:
if this incident doesnt change them then I dont know what will. Each and every politician have to swear in front of media to eradicate this cancer and those who doesnt should be jailed. We need to come up with a legislation in this regard, all TTP sympathizers should be jailed and this guy Abdul Aziz should be executed really !
Click to expand...

They are afraid of TTP. That's the problem. We need a leader who is not afraid to get his hand dirty.

TTP sympathizers? You do know TTP has support from one third of population from Pakistan currently locking down cities as we speak and you want them jailed? Unfortunately, this is beyond the control of Pakistan.
 
Fallen King said:
They are afraid of TTP. That's the problem. We need a leader who is not afraid to get his hand dirty.

TTP sympathizers? You do know TTP has support from one third of population from Pakistan currently locking down cities as we speak and you want them jailed? Unfortunately, this is beyond the control of Pakistan.
Click to expand...

No they do not, stop over estimating them. There is a section who doesnt support but sympathize with them but after this incident, noone with a sane mind would do that. We just have to form a legislation so that goons like Abdul Aziz should be confined. Next step should be executing all TTP soldiers who are jailed, we need to have fast track courts to execute them.
 
i don't understand how these ****heads have any support in pakistan at all? surely the whole of pakistan wants to get rid of them?
 
farazaidi said:
No they do not, stop over estimating them. There is a section who doesnt support but sympathize with them but after this incident, noone with a sane mind would do that. We just have to form a legislation so that goons like Abdul Aziz should be confined. Next step should be executing all TTP soldiers who are jailed, we need to have fast track courts to execute them.
Click to expand...

I thought the same after recent attack on Karachi Airport earlier. But people forgot about this incident on the next day. If anything, TTP support is growing stronger and stronger.

When PMLN authorized Zarb-e-Azb mission allowing Pakistani army to conduct operation, there was loud protest against this mission.

The real source of TTP cannot be found in Pakistan. It is in Afghanistan, provided with safe haven. As i said before, If Pakistan wants to end this terrorism, eradicating the source is the first way to go. That will solve a lot of problem. Afghanistan is also the victim of TTP's terrorism too.
 
the Great Khan said:
My heart is in pieces. Keep seeing those kids and then looking at my kids..had a bad day today!!
Click to expand...

I know what you are going through bro...we all are feeling the same. Bad day is an understatement, it's been an absolutely devastating day. May Allah give strength to the family of those who lost their loved ones. Inshallah, one day sanity shall prevail.
 
Fallen King said:
When PMLN authorized Zarb-e-Azb mission allowing Pakistani army to conduct operation, there was loud protest against this mission.
Click to expand...

Army had already started operation Zarb-e-Azb and they informed govt after 2 days that have started it i appreciate it otherwise if we had left it for politicians than we were going nowhere all talk and bs. I was against PMLN and PTI both policy of talk with these TTP animals
 
What I find saddest about this day is that some politicians are trying to turn this into an ethnic conflict to score political points -these students were of many different ethnic backgrounds which is what they don't get and were killed just cause many of them had fathers in the army.
 
Strike Rate said:
Army had already started operation Zarb-e-Azb and they informed govt after 2 days that have started it i appreciate it otherwise if we had left it for politicians than we were going nowhere all talk and bs. I was against PMLN and PTI both policy of talk with these TTP animals
Click to expand...

Attack on Karachi Aiport made that decision for Nawaz Sharif to authorize Zarb-e-Azb. But he shouldn't have listened to Imran Khan, instead should have went with General Kiyani's advice earlier. I don't expect Nawaz Sharif to tackle this core issue by himself. That's why we need a leader who is not afraid to get his hand dirty, in other word, kill every TTP soldiers on Earth.
 
Fallen King said:
Attack on Karachi Aiport made that decision for Nawaz Sharif to authorize Zarb-e-Azb. But he shouldn't have listened to Imran Khan, instead should have went with General Kiyani's advice earlier. I don't expect Nawaz Sharif to tackle this core issue by himself. That's why we need a leader who is not afraid to get his hand dirty, in other word, kill every TTP soldiers on Earth.
Click to expand...

TBH PTI and PMLN both were always in favor of talks with TTP and this mindset was from years. You can find Shehbaz/Nawaz statement on this issue from past too. Kiyani was a different type General i am happy we have someone like Raheel instead of Kiyani because Raheel is the one who love to take a stand Kiyani more cared about his image in public and he was afraid that an operation here will make him and army more unpopular and can backfire otherwise Pak Army was ready for this operation back in 2011.
 
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