5 Weeks Later......Salman Butt's World Turns Upside Down

[NO 1 AFRIDI FAN]

Wow! It's been one year, and still can't believe they actually did this.

They broke many hearts, and the heart still cries when ever I think about this.

 

[MR__KHAN__JI]

How could you!

 

[Fireworks11]

Really painful to relkindle the memories. Such a dark day that was. Time's flown.

 

[Saqs]

What made it worse was it came right after the time our spirits were back up after a gutsy performance against Aus.

But you've just got to at it and move on.

 

[BoomBoomAli]

I've moved on, the crooks are out and all three should never wear the green cap ever again. They are a dsigrace to Cricket as a sport and I hope that they dont get to play when the bans are lifted as it would further disgrace the name of Pakistan and would simply make us a laughing stock.

Salman Butt, Mohammad Asfi and Mohammad Amir SHAME ON YOU.

 

[MVP26]

I've moved on, the crooks are out and all three should never wear the green cap ever again. They are a dsigrace to Cricket as a sport and I hope that they dont get to play when the bans are lifted as it would further disgrace the name of Pakistan and would simply make us a laughing stock.

Salman Butt, Mohammad Asfi and Mohammad Amir SHAME ON YOU.

agreed

 

[TalentSpotterPk]

Salman Butt did not have cricketing abilities like Imran but He was well spoken, intelligent, shrewd, tactical genious. He made a terrible call for few thousand pounds at his peak cricketing years. He was improving as a batsman too and would have been still playing averaging 47 in Test Cricket Yes UAE man and 45 with 80-83 SR in Odi Cricket thanks to UAE. But corruption destroyed him when he had his peak years infront of him.


PCB invested in him for 12 years atleast when he made that horrible choice. Still if Sarfraz doesn't improve as Captain, Sethi doesn't become Pcb head, Inzamam stays at CS, Malik declines captaincy offer than Salman Butt will be back as Opener and Pakistan Captain. (All If's should work) Salman did Spot fixing but remember in Past there were 4 Match fixers who Captained Pakistan. 2 of them did Spot fixing at ICL aswell. So Salman is a lesser Sinner/Criminal.


Let me dissapoint you all with one last thing. 32 years old Salman Butt, Shoaib Malik (35), Amad Butt (22) & Kamran Ghulam (21) are the fittest Cricketers in Pakistan. Yeah 32 years old Salman Butt.

 

[Pakistanian]

Bring him back.

 

[ahmedwaqas92]

Salman Butt did not have cricketing abilities like Imran but He was well spoken, intelligent, shrewd, tactical genious. He made a terrible call for few thousand pounds at his peak cricketing years. He was improving as a batsman too and would have been still playing averaging 47 in Test Cricket Yes UAE man and 45 with 80-83 SR in Odi Cricket thanks to UAE. But corruption destroyed him when he had his peak years infront of him.


PCB invested in him for 12 years atleast when he made that horrible choice. Still if Sarfraz doesn't improve as Captain, Sethi doesn't become Pcb head, Inzamam stays at CS, Malik declines captaincy offer than Salman Butt will be back as Opener and Pakistan Captain. (All If's should work) Salman did Spot fixing but remember in Past there were 4 Match fixers who Captained Pakistan. 2 of them did Spot fixing at ICL aswell. So Salman is a lesser Sinner/Criminal.


Let me dissapoint you all with one last thing. 32 years old Salman Butt, Shoaib Malik (35), Amad Butt (22) & Kamran Ghulam (21) are the fittest Cricketers in Pakistan. Yeah 32 years old Salman Butt.

Yaar App toh Aisi Batein Na Karo mere Dost......

Anay Wali Naslon Ko Hum Kia Sabaq Dein Rahen Hain mere bhai ?? Bay Emani Karo, Dhoka Do, Jhoot Bolo magar agar Aap kay Pas Hunar aur Talent hay toh koie baat nahe, Aap ko kuch nahe hoga.....

Disappointed bro

 

[TalentSpotterPk]

Yaar App toh Aisi Batein Na Karo mere Dost......

Anay Wali Naslon Ko Hum Kia Sabaq Dein Rahen Hain mere bhai ?? Bay Emani Karo, Dhoka Do, Jhoot Bolo magar agar Aap kay Pas Hunar aur Talent hay toh koie baat nahe, Aap ko kuch nahe hoga.....

Disappointed bro

Salman Butt does not have enough talent with the Bat. Sahibzada, Ahsan Ali, Sharjeel & Shahzaib all are more talented and skilled than him. But none of them is more intelligent, tacticak genious or has better fitness than him. Mo other domestic fc list A captain too.


Rules are Same for All.


We have article 62-63 in place right ?


I am an Ik supporter right ?


As per USA court decision which IK hasn't challenged IK cannot be head of any Political Party, cannot run for any Public seat.


What are we teaching our next generations ? If you are loved and have huge following and support than Constitutions article 62-63 won't be applied on you ? ?


We cannot be hypocrites and have different rules for different imdivisuals because of our personal Bias ?


A match fixer, fancy fixer, spot fixer WK Lead pakistan Test & Odi team. Fixed matches in ICL. Is Miandad a liar ?

The same person became Pak team manager, Coach, Chief Selector.


Its better I don't mention players who captained aswell as held administrative and coaching posts post Malik Qayuum report.


Wait for Atta ur Rehman's Book too.


Why you want Rules, Principles, Laws only applied on Salman Butt who got punished for Spot fixing ? Why him only ?


Why did Rashid Latif, Amir Sohail , Aqib Javed & Basit Ali retire during 90's ? Were they actors ?

Is Match fixing a bigger Crime or is Spot fixing a bigger Crime ?


Aren't Money launderer's Pakistani ? ?



If you want to enforce Laws, Principles, Ethics, Morals than enforce equally uniformally on all but do not be hypocrite and don't pick and chose. Amir also didn't have feeder or choosni in his mouth when he did spot fixing. He was adult.

[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] [MENTION=138254]Syed1[/MENTION] [MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] [MENTION=138463]Slog[/MENTION]

 

[uberkoen]

Bring him back.

People wonder why our selectors keep selecting TTF's but it's not just selectors it's people like this guy as well.

 

[Indiafan]

(All If's should work) Salman did Spot fixing but remember in Past there were 4 Match fixers who Captained Pakistan. 2 of them did Spot fixing at ICL aswell. So Salman is a lesser Sinner/Criminal.

In many ways Pakistan are still paying the price for that. If those past players had been punished, Butt, Amir might not have fixed. Now you want Butt back so some future Amir can be banned again

PCB invested in him for 12 years atleast when he made that horrible choice.

That logic is called a sunk cost fallacy

 

[WhenSultansBowled]

I'd rather we stopped playing cricket than bringing Salman Butt back.

He never admitted fixing, unlike Amir who admitted and served the punishment.

 

[TalentSpotterPk]

In many ways Pakistan are still paying the price for that. If those past players had been punished, Butt, Amir might not have fixed. Now you want Butt back so some future Amir can be banned again



That logic is called a sunk cost fallacy

Rules can bend for Amir but not Asif & Salman ? There is no logic in it.


Any youngster would knkw that Salman who were earning Millions per month was punished for 7 years, lost his Sponsor Adidas, got jailed and suffered financially.


Keep an Eye on PCB and how they coverup Sharjeel's case with minor punishment because they want him back soon.


So rules and laws would mend for Superstar Sharjeel too.


Than what will this tell the Youngsters ? If you are powerhitter impactful talented batsman than PCB will make a deal with you and would punish you minimum ? But if you are unorthodox batsman with poor SR than You will be gone forever ?


My friend this isn't Justice.


I am sorry you are from India so you do not know much about Pak. As per a USA court ruling which hasn't been challenged a certain Man cannot even run elections in Pakistan because of Article 62 63 of Pak Constitution. Today he is actual leader of opposition, is head of a party, his party got 2nd most votes. If rules laws ethics are followed he cannot even be a head of political party and cannot even run in elections.


So yeah when it comes to Cricket than make Salman Butt & Mohammad Asif an example for next generations to come but Super Ishtaars need special treatment because Hey they are match winners.

[MENTION=113742]Hamza_[/MENTION]K

 

[TalentSpotterPk]

People wonder why our selectors keep selecting TTF's but it's not just selectors it's people like this guy as well.

These are TTF and Current best Test Batsman numbers in their first 16 and 17 Tests outside Asia. By that time TTF was 25 and got banned while future ATG was 29.

 

[uberkoen]

These are TTF and Current best Test Batsman numbers in their first 16 and 17 Tests outside Asia. By that time TTF was 25 and got banned while future ATG was 29.

I don't understand why you are looking at first 16 or 17 tests outside of Asia. You're just distorting the numbers. What does this comparison show? Salman Butt was marginally better than Azhar when he started out his international career? What does that matter?

Honestly expected better from you.

 

[TalentSpotterPk]

I don't understand why you are looking at first 16 or 17 tests outside of Asia. You're just distorting the numbers. What does this comparison show? Salman Butt was marginally better than Azhar when he started out his international career? What does that matter?

Honestly expected better from you.

This tells you that they were at Par.


This tells you that you could only compare them and distribute TTF certificates if Salman played 7 years Test Cricket from 2010 to 2017 ie 75% Tests in Asia.


Since he only played 33 Tests out of which 16 were outside Asia against v strong teams so his Average of 31 and Azhar's average of 28 at similar stage tells u something.


Plus Pak Test wickets aren't equal to UAE dead slow phattas.



Salman had odi average of 37 & SR of 77. Considering flat wickets trend post 2010, 2 bew balls, batting friendly field restrictions and thick bats that would be 42 @87 in Today's world when Hafeez, Shehzad, Azhar still hv SR less than Salman Butt.


Salman had 5 Odi hundreds against Ind against whom most of our batsman fail due to pressure except for Younis Yousuf in Tests and Yousuf, Salman, Malik and for few months Nasir Jamahed in Odis.


So it is not merited to give TTF Certificate to Salman when he got banned at Age 25. His Best batting years were ahead of him where He would have improved his Test and Odi numbers.

 

[uberkoen]

This tells you that they were at Par.


This tells you that you could only compare them and distribute TTF certificates if Salman played 7 years Test Cricket from 2010 to 2017 ie 75% Tests in Asia.


Since he only played 33 Tests out of which 16 were outside Asia against v strong teams so his Average of 31 and Azhar's average of 28 at similar stage tells u something.


Plus Pak Test wickets aren't equal to UAE dead slow phattas.



Salman had odi average of 37 & SR of 77. Considering flat wickets trend post 2010, 2 bew balls, batting friendly field restrictions and thick bats that would be 42 @87 in Today's world when Hafeez, Shehzad, Azhar still hv SR less than Salman Butt.


Salman had 5 Odi hundreds against Ind against whom most of our batsman fail due to pressure except for Younis Yousuf in Tests and Yousuf, Salman, Malik and for few months Nasir Jamahed in Odis.


So it is not merited to give TTF Certificate to Salman when he got banned at Age 25. His Best batting years were ahead of him where He would have improved his Test and Odi numbers.

Do you notice the key word in all your sentences being 'had'?

Salman had his opportunity and he wasted it by selling himself. Azhar has done brilliantly in tests and his career stats are much better than Salman's. Salman was always a mediocre player who would give you a decent inning every now and then but overall was very unreliable as a batsman. Azhar has cemented his place in the test side and more often than not stands out and scores big. Honestly, there is no comparison.

 

[uberkoen]

This tells you that they were at Par.


This tells you that you could only compare them and distribute TTF certificates if Salman played 7 years Test Cricket from 2010 to 2017 ie 75% Tests in Asia.


Since he only played 33 Tests out of which 16 were outside Asia against v strong teams so his Average of 31 and Azhar's average of 28 at similar stage tells u something.


Plus Pak Test wickets aren't equal to UAE dead slow phattas.



Salman had odi average of 37 & SR of 77. Considering flat wickets trend post 2010, 2 bew balls, batting friendly field restrictions and thick bats that would be 42 @87 in Today's world when Hafeez, Shehzad, Azhar still hv SR less than Salman Butt.


Salman had 5 Odi hundreds against Ind against whom most of our batsman fail due to pressure except for Younis Yousuf in Tests and Yousuf, Salman, Malik and for few months Nasir Jamahed in Odis.


So it is not merited to give TTF Certificate to Salman when he got banned at Age 25. His Best batting years were ahead of him where He would have improved his Test and Odi numbers.

Do you notice the key word in all your sentences being 'had'?

Salman had his opportunity and he wasted it by selling himself. Azhar has done brilliantly in tests and his career stats are much better than Salman's. Salman was always a mediocre player who would give you a decent inning every now and then but overall was very unreliable as a batsman. Azhar has cemented his place in the test side and more often than not stands out and scores big. Honestly, there is no comparison.

Secondly, you're making an assumption in saying that he could've improved had he continued playing. What's to say he wouldn't have deteriorated?

 

[TalentSpotterPk]

^^

I am taking nothing away from Azhar Ali. He is a brilliant Test Batsman.

Just letting you know that you can compare players after equal oppurtunities equal matches in certain playing conditions. Which I did with the Screenshots of Stats.


You can't compare a 33 Tests player banned for 7 years with a 60 tests player playing continuously for 7 years with UAE being home.


I compared them at similar stage with equal number of tests outside Asia and one averaged 31 and other 28.


Even look at Hafeez numbers pre UAE era and you ll know of Salman's overall stats in context of timeline.


A fair comparison would be between Hafeez & Malik since both have played in similar era and consistently.


Had is used because of Spot fixing. I wasn't behind it so wasn't in my control. If he had retired with these numbers than I would hv compared him with openers who retired after 35 Tests.


Lastly if Yousuf played on UAE decks for 5 years I am sure he would have retired with 60 plus Test average. This isn't just my opinion. Hafeez averages 50 in UAE

 

[Mamoon]

[MENTION=138980]TalentSpotterPk[/MENTION]

My post in another thread a few weeks ago:

Salman Butt was a criminally underrated ODI batsman of his time. During the 2004-2010 period, he was the only opener in the country who could score hundreds consistently. Had spot-fixing not happened, he would have surpassed Saeed Anwar's tally of 20 hundreds.

In Tests, he was very inconsistent, but he did show glimpses of his potential against an ATG Australian team, and by 2009-10, he had found his game in T20s as well. In the World T20 2010, he was Pakistan's best batsman by some distance.

At the age of 25-26, he had Pakistan feet at his feet. Number one choice opener across all formats, and was on the brink of becoming the captain in all three formats as well. He had the full backing of the PCB establishment because of his educated persona and family background, due to which he was more marketable compared to his peers like Farhat, Hameed, Taufeeq etc. He also played in the IPL 2008, and would have had other lucrative deals in the CPL, BPL, and of course PSL in the future.

However, he decided to throw all of that away for some quick cash. An absolute tragedy on his part, something that he will have to live with for the rest of his life. Pakistan though, are better off without characters like him and he is not needed anymore in any format.

 

[Pete Rose]

he is plying his trade topping domestic batting charts playing at a strike rate of 70.

 

[TalentSpotterPk]

[MENTION=138980]TalentSpotterPk[/MENTION]

My post in another thread a few weeks ago:

I fully agree with your Post except for the last 4 lines. Prior to that it's great analysing and zero disagreement. One of the best posts on Salman Butt I read here.



I also held similar opinion wrt Salman. Thought he should never play again for Pakistan but I watched Aqib Javed's interview with Waseem Badami, I watched 2 interviews of Atta ur Rehman who drives a Cab to meet his ends. Literally cried on live tv. Than now I am reading stuff about how Sharjeel is going to be given VVIP treatment because he is a strike force like none other in Pakistan. Acha a friend of mine told me that Amir's real age of 2+ his official age when he did spot fixing. So no feeder peeta choosnee choosta kid he was (though I love to watch him bowl still but not a blind fan boy) So I realised k Qurbaani k bakray aor Balli pe cherhaanay k liye sirf Saleem Malik, Atta ur Rehman, Kaneria, Asif aor Butt he thay ? ?


Sydney Test throw kerne waalay Haaji hein ?


ICL mein Lahore Badshah k kerta dherta Momineen thay ya Mutaqqi ?

Saleem Altaf & Mohammad Ilyas ki leaked phone call kya thee ?


Malik Qayuum is on record that Wasim was my favourite, he was my hero so I couldn't go against my heart. We gave minute monetary punishment because they all were superstars and we did not have replacements.


Why did Amir, Basit, Rashid, Aqib leave Pak team in mid 90's when they were in tgere early 20's ? Were they all mentally derailed or there protest was for a cause ?


Ab Maulana Yousuf sahib bhee maidaan mein aagaey hein jehaad kerne to save Sharjeel Khan powerhitter.


Wo jo Jackets badal rahay thay ? Wo jo video mein pockets bhar rahay thay unka kya hua ? Aik abi tak khel ra aor aik pindi boy comeback k nazdeek hai. Pindi noy told k yousuf bookie ko 2014 se jaantay hein mousoof league cricket se.



Lastly I support a certain politician but God forbid you are declared as father of a baby girl after DNA testing than can you run in Pak elections ? Will your character pass through article 62,63 ? Will you be eligible to become member of legislation assembly ?


Than Farishtoun ko b ilm nai k Kharboun rupay Launder ho k kesay chalaey gaey Pakistanioun k abroad magar sub sharif maasoom momin hein ji.


Qanoon ka iltaaq khaas logoun pe hoga bus.


I do not support these biased analogies, selective acvountability & selective justice. Call me corrupt or whatever but I don't support this hypocrisy and chameleon stuff.

 

[Mamoon]

I fully agree with your Post except for the last 4 lines. Prior to that it's great analysing and zero disagreement. One of the best posts on Salman Butt I read here.



I also held similar opinion wrt Salman. Thought he should never play again for Pakistan but I watched Aqib Javed's interview with Waseem Badami, I watched 2 interviews of Atta ur Rehman who drives a Cab to meet his ends. Literally cried on live tv. Than now I am reading stuff about how Sharjeel is going to be given VVIP treatment because he is a strike force like none other in Pakistan. Acha a friend of mine told me that Amir's real age of 2+ his official age when he did spot fixing. So no feeder peeta choosnee choosta kid he was (though I love to watch him bowl still but not a blind fan boy) So I realised k Qurbaani k bakray aor Balli pe cherhaanay k liye sirf Saleem Malik, Atta ur Rehman, Kaneria, Asif aor Butt he thay ? ?


Sydney Test throw kerne waalay Haaji hein ?


ICL mein Lahore Badshah k kerta dherta Momineen thay ya Mutaqqi ?

Saleem Altaf & Mohammad Ilyas ki leaked phone call kya thee ?


Malik Qayuum is on record that Wasim was my favourite, he was my hero so I couldn't go against my heart. We gave minute monetary punishment because they all were superstars and we did not have replacements.


Why did Amir, Basit, Rashid, Aqib leave Pak team in mid 90's when they were in tgere early 20's ? Were they all mentally derailed or there protest was for a cause ?


Ab Maulana Yousuf sahib bhee maidaan mein aagaey hein jehaad kerne to save Sharjeel Khan powerhitter.


Wo jo Jackets badal rahay thay ? Wo jo video mein pockets bhar rahay thay unka kya hua ? Aik abi tak khel ra aor aik pindi boy comeback k nazdeek hai. Pindi noy told k yousuf bookie ko 2014 se jaantay hein mousoof league cricket se.



Lastly I support a certain politician but God forbid you are declared as father of a baby girl after DNA testing than can you run in Pak elections ? Will your character pass through article 62,63 ? Will you be eligible to become member of legislation assembly ?


Than Farishtoun ko b ilm nai k Kharboun rupay Launder ho k kesay chalaey gaey Pakistanioun k abroad magar sub sharif maasoom momin hein ji.


Qanoon ka iltaaq khaas logoun pe hoga bus.


I do not support these biased analogies, selective acvountability & selective justice. Call me corrupt or whatever but I don't support this hypocrisy and chameleon stuff.

After witnessing the involvement of Sharjeel, I believe that we made a mistake by bringing Amir back, and we also have to go back to the Justice Qayyum report. Corruption can never be eliminated, but can certainly be reduced with a zero-tolerance policy. However, if players get pardoned because they are good enough, then we are doing nothing but encouraging the future players of following the same path.

Past mistakes though, cannot be rectified. Hence, we have two ways of dealing with this: either make a stand now and stay firm on our stance regarding fixers, or continue to pardon the likes of Sharjeel, Asif and Butt because if people like Wasim and Amir were pardoned, why show hypocrisy by snubbing the rest.

Bring both Butt and Sharjeel back just like you brought Amir back and pardoned Wasim, but then don't ask why fixing culture is rife in our cricket.

 

[TalentSpotterPk]

After witnessing the involvement of Sharjeel, I believe that we made a mistake by bringing Amir back, and we also have to go back to the Justice Qayyum report. Corruption can never be eliminated, but can certainly be reduced with a zero-tolerance policy. However, if players get pardoned because they are good enough, then we are doing nothing but encouraging the future players of following the same path.

Past mistakes though, cannot be rectified. Hence, we have two ways of dealing with this: either make a stand now and stay firm on our stance regarding fixers, or continue to pardon the likes of Sharjeel, Asif and Butt because if people like Wasim and Amir were pardoned, why show hypocrisy by snubbing the rest.

Bring both Butt and Sharjeel back just like you brought Amir back and pardoned Wasim, but then don't ask why fixing culture is rife in our cricket.

I agree.

 

[sam_ahm]

I always had a soft corner for Salman Butt but even otherwise I'm a firm believer that once you serve your punishment you can start clean. So it is not about pardoning him, because he has served his punoshment anyways, and punishments ate for the betterment of players, not to end their careers.

I know it won't happen but I wish Salman comes back to the national fold and even Sherjeel and Asif, as they will make a big difference to this otherwise fast sinking team.

 

[TalentSpotterPk]

I always had a soft corner for Salman Butt but even otherwise I'm a firm believer that once you serve your punishment you can start clean. So it is not about pardoning him, because he has served his punoshment anyways, and punishments ate for the betterment of players, not to end their careers.

I know it won't happen but I wish Salman comes back to the national fold and even Sherjeel and Asif, as they will make a big difference to this otherwise fast sinking team.

This will most likely not happen because of Bias & selective Justice, Accountability, Morals, Principles & Ethics.


Yeah Rules aren't same for all no matter how much you beat your Drums.


Would be equality enforced if it happens but highly unlikely.