5 Weeks Later......Salman Butt's World Turns Upside Down

Saj

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Most of you will have seen or heard of the horror flick titled 28 Weeks Later, what we have witnessed of late though is the Pakistani version, which is titled 5 Weeks Later.

Being appointed captain of your country is an honour, any schoolboy's dream.....irrespective of whatever sport.

To be asked to lead out your team mates and face the mighty Australians in your debut test as skipper was a challenge that Salman Butt accepted and faced head on. A challenge that many thought was too big for him, but a challenge that he overcame, much to the surprise of the cricketing world.

A remarkable but tense three wicket victory at Headingley was an effort that not even the most die-hard Pakistani fan would have dreamed of, especially given the nature of events in the prior test match at Lords and Pakistan's build up for Leeds.

Butt's personal performance with the bat at Headingley was not breathtaking or indeed eyecatching, but his performance as skipper was impressive. Marshalling his troops with authority and thought, he caught the eye as the leader of a team under pressure and a team who was expected to meekly surrender to the Australians.

Butt during the Leeds test match came to each press conference with his chest out, proud that he was captain and gave decisive and honest answers to each of the questions that he was asked by the media.
Some sharp answers, some wit, some humour, some quick corrections and each time he responded, he looked at the questioner in the eye and literally without blinking and gave them a solid response.

I met the Pakistan team on the morning of the last day of the Headingley test match, at the team hotel. As I arrived, several of the players were finishing off their breakfast, whilst others were waiting for the team bus to arrive, others relaxed listening to ipods and some shared a few jokes with me. The atmosphere was a strange one, considering the match was literally in the Pakistani boys grasp.

Salman Butt was one of the first ones to leave the hotel lobby. Carrying a shoulder bag and chatting to Wahab Riaz, he looked like a man who was looking ahead to savour the taste of victory, against an opposition that had mauled Pakistan time and again.

I approached Salman and as usual he shook my hand and we exchanged greetings. I spoke to Salman about the forthcoming day's play and with a certain degree of anticipation, he said that "InshAllah we will do it", although his tone displayed a fair degree of tension and nerves, which to be fair was expected. There was a steely determination about him, but also I could sense the frustration that he would not play any part in the day's proceedings on the field. Salman boarded the waiting team bus and was set for a journey that he hoped would result in victory.

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The day's play at Headingley was a nervous affair of course. There was nothing solid or certain about the Pakistani batting on day 4 and they stumbled across the finishing line. As the Pakistan players celebrated their victory over their nemesis, Butt was obviously pleased, but looked thoughtful and dignified as his team celebrated the win.

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I was on the pitch taking pictures with the Pakistan team when they celebrated the win and during that time I got the chance to have a few quick words with Salman. He was beaming with pride, he was elated, he was that excited that he was literally out of breath. I congratulated him, he responded with a firm handshake and he replied with "Allah ka Shukkar Hai" (many thanks to Allah).

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At the post match presentations and press conference, Butt's responses were once again and as expected, to the point. He was impressing everyone immensely with his leadership and wise words and you could sense the nods of approval from the world's media. Were we witnessing a new era in Pakistan for test cricket led by the young man from Lahore? It all seemed so rosy, the garden of Pakistani cricket was once again flourishing and there were smiles on Pakistani fans of all ages. It was a memorable occasion for all, a day that young and old would not forget, the anticipation, the tension and then finally the relief, followed by the celebrations.

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I joined up with the Pakistani team at the hotel after the Headingley victory and it was a relatively calm atmosphere. Some of the players were grinning from ear to ear, others were celebrating the victory by going shopping in Leeds city centre, some of the boys were just so exhausted that they were sat outside their hotel rooms speaking to relatives and friends in Pakistan. 2 of the players I chatted to were Azhar Ali and Tanvir Ahmed who were sat on the floor looking relieved and of course elated.

As I spoke to them, I noticed a smartly dressed little boy sat near them. Azhar noticed me looking at the boy and smiling and confirmed to me that the young boy was Salman Butt's son. Azhar asked the young boy to shake my hand and tell me his name, which he did ever so politely. I didn't catch the young boy's name, but was impressed with his manners. The young boy pointed at one of the nearby rooms and one of the players confirmed that we were near Salman Butt's room.

Later that afternoon as I left the team hotel, I noticed Salman and his family in the reception area. The skipper was happily signing autographs, posing for pictures with fans and chatting to team mates. He looked at me, smiled, puffed out his cheeks as if to say "that was a relief". A few minutes later Salman and his family left the hotel towards Leeds city centre.
 
5 weeks on and I am confused as to what I witnessed in Leeds. I am quite literally struggling to comprehend what Leeds was all about. What was reality and what was "fake".

The Pride !
The Celebrations !
The Impressive Press Conferences !
The Astute Answers to Questions !
The Relief !
The Country !
The Thanks to Allah !
The Family !
The Fans !
The Future !

What was all this, was it an act, was it all just a charade, why? I simply cannot make any sense of the events of 5 weeks ago at Leeds compared with what is currently going on?
 
I don't understand how or why Butt got involved in this.

He had no motivation, he was a very very well off individual, had a family, and children.

The way it seems is that he only took captaincy on to further his ambitions in corruption.
 
They do it for themselves, not Just Butt but most of the players.

I bet they never hardly think of the Fans or the Flag.
 
Hes brought it on himself, he looks the guilties of the lot and God knows since when hes been doing this
 
The simple thing is saj that salman and these boys have underestimated the severity of spot fixing. I dint believe the hulabaloo that these players have lost matches but rather that they have committed crimes such has spit fixing which amounts to effecting the game. It's incredible how naive and stupid they've been. I am not for one second believe that we lost any matches on this tour on purpose. I've seen the tension and sorrow on salmans face during the losses on this tour and I've also seen determination and pride when we've won.

As a fan of salman butt I've been badly let down by him but I think he knows himself that the main person he's let down is himself. Those performances, pride and joy were real but the consequences of salman and some of our players actions will also be real, but something they would have never anticipated.
 
He was doing well , I dont know what did make him to do all this .Obviously greed for money .shame .
 
he looks like an innocent boy in pictures and face-to-face, (they are the most fishy beware of them)
 
Saj, I am totally, totally stumped at that too. Even though you've seen and met these players time and time again, I just remember talking to him for 4-5 mins at Heathrow after winning the T20 WC. And in that short conversation with him, I was beyond impressed. He's always been that player that was in my "good books", no matter what his performance was. A decent, respectful young cricketer no matter what. Now I wonder if it was all a farce?

And a part of me still screams, why him? Why him? For reasons I don't understand, I really wish he comes out of this mess unscathed - I'm delusional to the point of thinking that he is innocent in all this. It sounds crazy, but its true. I can't conjure a motive for a cricketer, whose been educated, hailing from a well-off family, level-headed, playing for some 6-7 years, literally scandal-free (I mean, he's not exactly a bad-looking fellow, but never have I heard his name in some relationship unlike Mr :malik).. only to add up to this :(

I share your sentiments..

PS - the baby's name is Alyaan Butt :)
 
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5 weeks on and I am confused as to what I witnessed in Leeds. I am quite literally struggling to comprehend what Leeds was all about. What was reality and what was "fake".

The Pride !
The Celebrations !
The Impressive Press Conferences !
The Astute Answers to Questions !
The Relief !
The Country !
The Thanks to Allah !
The Family !
The Fans !
The Future !

What was all this, was it an act, was it all just a charade, why? I simply cannot make any sense of the events of 5 weeks ago at Leeds compared with what is currently going on?

We all feel the same, Saj bro.. Still struggling to figure out whether all that was a drama or a reality.. We all feel betrayed.. Don't know who to trust..
 
i honestly thought butt is one of the most decent cricketers around in pakistan ..polite, humble and never involved in controversy but all this happened..like me all the world was proven worng
 
they speak a bit of angreezi and we get impressed..sorry saj but you were duped..it was a charade..they deserve everything they get..it was another way to make money..doesnt matter if he is from a good family..ive seen plenty of lurkay from good families who's minds are in the gutter...means nothing...you are just by your actions not your angreezi and words!!
 
5 weeks on and I am confused as to what I witnessed in Leeds. I am quite literally struggling to comprehend what Leeds was all about. What was reality and what was "fake".

The Pride !
The Celebrations !
The Impressive Press Conferences !
The Astute Answers to Questions !
The Relief !
The Country !
The Thanks to Allah !
The Family !
The Fans !
The Future !

What was all this, was it an act, was it all just a charade, why? I simply cannot make any sense of the events of 5 weeks ago at Leeds compared with what is currently going on?

Its crazy. When you think a test win brings out all this, why would anyone throw it away. Power of money and greed
 
Stupid idiot....absolute moron, a complete and utter scum bag. It's bad enough getting involved himself but the fact that he allowed and encouraged an 18 year old with the world at his feet to risk throwing everything away makes him even worse.

If I ever see his face, he'll be lucky if he only gets knocked out.

Stupid stupid liar, cheat and fraudster. I feel sorry for his son to have such a man as his father.
 
I beg to differ Saj...

Its the educated in Pakistan that are the most corrupt and greedy.
 
Stupid idiot....absolute moron, a complete and utter scum bag. It's bad enough getting involved himself but the fact that he allowed and encouraged an 18 year old with the world at his feet to risk throwing everything away makes him even worse.

If I ever see his face, he'll be lucky if he only gets knocked out.

Stupid stupid liar, cheat and fraudster. I feel sorry for his son to have such a man as his father.


couldnt have said it better myself!

i never got a positive vibe from him anyways, he always seemed fishy, too good to be true. good riddance!
 
and i disagree that its the uneducated thatvare corrupt, i think we'll find more honest people amongst the poor than the well educated. probably why butt got away with it for so long, he used his brain in corruption, unlike asif.
 
He always seemed like a nice respectful guy and well mannered too.
Its baffling,how can someone like him be into all these things? And how many "innocent" faces have a dark side too?

Anyways,he is a cheat who sold his country and possibly lured an 18 year old at him prime into his cheap antics too.

Deserved to be banned for life from all sorts of cricket.Heck,he should not be allowed to play even gully cricket!
 
I don't understand how or why Butt got involved in this.

He had no motivation, he was a very very well off individual, had a family, and children.

The way it seems is that he only took captaincy on to further his ambitions in corruption.
You are underestimating the power of paisa! To quote a legendary former colleague of mine, "Kambakht bare kaam ki cheez hai!"

Better men than Butt have been lured by its dazzle!
 
RE: OPENING POST



5 weeks later is the joke of the century for Pakistan as far as cricket is concerned..

....


but i'd say that '5 months ago' is more appropriate... (we can make this like the sequel to 5 weeks ago similar to 28 days / 28 weeks later etc)



5 months ago afridi, akhtar, and younus khan were the badboys/retards of pak cricket and aamir salman butt and umar akmal were the saints.


5 months later it is afridi, akhtar, and younus khan who everybody is turning to and aamir salman and umar akmal etc are ready to be banished from the villiage of trust and hung on the rope of misleadance.


its unbelievable how things (as the saying goes) always resort back to the roller coaster (players) at the circus (PCB)
 
God knows for how long they were involved in spot fixing. He has let his family and his nation down. I feel bad for his old parents who have to live with this for the rest of their lives.
 
I don't understand how or why Butt got involved in this.

He had no motivation, he was a very very well off individual, had a family, and children.

The way it seems is that he only took captaincy on to further his ambitions in corruption.
DO you think these politicians are poor?

Being rich will not stop you from selling your soul, if you are that sort of an individual. And that is exactly the kind of guy salman butt is.

The likes of wasim akram at least waited a while before throwing matches. This was Butt;s first tour as captain, and he couldnt wait to milk some it.

A 3rd class guy
 
I predicted in one of the thread titled "Who's career will come to end after this summer" that it will be Salman Butt, and i was so right.
 
Money corrupts, Absolute money corrupts absolutely
 
The bitter reality of the world - Money rules. Period.

MJ, money rules, but guys like Asif and Butt were no slouches when it came to riches.

Albeit, Asif wasn't "born into money", he had done very well for himself having played IPL, club cricket in the UK and county cricket.

However Salman by all accounts was "born into money" and I remember a couple of first class players saying to me, that his family were so wealthy that he really did not need to play cricket.
 
when enough is not enough. Salman can only blame himself for his own demise. I wish ee had never won the game against Australia...all of what is happening right now would have been so much easier to accept...
 
MJ, money rules, but guys like Asif and Butt were no slouches when it came to riches.

Albeit, Asif wasn't "born into money", he had done very well for himself having played IPL, club cricket in the UK and county cricket.

However Salman by all accounts was "born into money" and I remember a couple of first class players saying to me, that his family were so wealthy that he really did not need to play cricket.



See Saj, by that definition, our Bhuttos and Sharifs also should have no cause to steal from the country. But the simple fact is, that a rich person wants to be richer. A millionnaire wants to be a billionnaire and a billionnaire wants to be a trillionnaire. There is just no end to a human's greed.

Even God understands this basic tendency of humans that's why He motivates us to obey His commands by offering us the riches and the good life of Heaven. It's the same with almost every single religion in this world.

And that's how life in this world is too. The only difference is - some people have a stronger conscience that wins them the war over greed, while others don't. It has nothing to do with the financial background of the person.
 
MJ, money rules, but guys like Asif and Butt were no slouches when it came to riches.

Albeit, Asif wasn't "born into money", he had done very well for himself having played IPL, club cricket in the UK and county cricket.

However Salman by all accounts was "born into money" and I remember a couple of first class players saying to me, that his family were so wealthy that he really did not need to play cricket.

So you would think that he was playing only for the love of the game in that case. Yet clearly greed overtook even that.
 
MJ, money rules, but guys like Asif and Butt were no slouches when it came to riches.

Albeit, Asif wasn't "born into money", he had done very well for himself having played IPL, club cricket in the UK and county cricket.

However Salman by all accounts was "born into money" and I remember a couple of first class players saying to me, that his family were so wealthy that he really did not need to play cricket.

Saj,

You have highlighted something that I have been wrestling with all along. Given his personal life, I can understand why Asif would do it and how a young guy like Aamer can be roped into it. What I have been unable to reconcile is why Butt would do it.

To a lot of us he seemed like quite an innocent guy and based on your dealings with him it appears he came across that way in person too. I've seen him live at matches when he's failed and he has looked genuinely hurt too, with expressions he couldn't possibly have faked.

He was the captain and obviously the head of the team, but he was never the dictator that certain other captains in the past accused of match-fixing have been. His relatively junior position and uncertainty about his batting means he couldn't possibly have forced his views on the other players given the likes of Yawar Saeed and Ijaz Butt were actually with the tour party - he simply wasn't in powerful enough a position to force anyone to do anything, except probably Aamer. Are his links to Mazar Majid as simple as they are made out to be?

In the same manner he is alleged to have forced Aamer, do you think Salman was also coerced by higher-ups within the PCB? Does he, to a certain extent, also deserve a degree of pity, as the issue may go beyond pure greed for him and maybe his hands were tied by more sinister threats? Money is a harsh mistress and obviously financial greed has taken the reputations of far richer guys than Butt, but for me something sits uneasily with his specific situation.

Thoughts?
 
Amir and Salman... It just doesn't make sense! :69:
Amir it does kind of make sense- youngster forced by more experienced guys who had probably done it many times before and convinced him it wasn't a risk.

Butt? Normally I have a theory or two but his actions have just baffled me. Was he really just a genuinely bad egg? He may well be just that - a wrong 'un.
 
Saj,

You have highlighted something that I have been wrestling with all along. Given his personal life, I can understand why Asif would do it and how a young guy like Aamer can be roped into it. What I have been unable to reconcile is why Butt would do it.

To a lot of us he seemed like quite an innocent guy and based on your dealings with him it appears he came across that way in person too. I've seen him live at matches when he's failed and he has looked genuinely hurt too, with expressions he couldn't possibly have faked.

He was the captain and obviously the head of the team, but he was never the dictator that certain other captains in the past accused of match-fixing have been. His relatively junior position and uncertainty about his batting means he couldn't possibly have forced his views on the other players given the likes of Yawar Saeed and Ijaz Butt were actually with the tour party - he simply wasn't in powerful enough a position to force anyone to do anything, except probably Aamer. Are his links to Mazar Majid as simple as they are made out to be?

In the same manner he is alleged to have forced Aamer, do you think Salman was also coerced by higher-ups within the PCB? Does he, to a certain extent, also deserve a degree of pity, as the issue may go beyond pure greed for him and maybe his hands were tied by more sinister threats? Money is a harsh mistress and obviously financial greed has taken the reputations of far richer guys than Butt, but for me something sits uneasily with his specific situation.

Thoughts?
Eloquently put.

I think we've done a little guilt by association on PP. I'd rather wait for the facts even though it does look extremely bad as things stand. It's just strange, though. Butt is such a hyperactive guy at the crease - always adjusting his equipment, readjusting his guard at the crease, constantly twitching. Now I'm starting to wonder if all that hyperactivity is for other reasons entirely.
 
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Eloquently put.

I think we've done a little guilt by association on PP. I'd rather wait for the facts even though it does look extremely bad as things stand. It's just strange, though. Butt is such a hyperactive guy at the crease - always adjusting his equipment, readjusting his guard at the crease, constantly twitching. Now I'm starting to wonder if all that hyperactivity is for other reasons entirely.

I especially agree with the "wait for the facts to come out" line. In cricket it's a pity that they never do though. They all seem to cover for each other.

As for the hyperactivity, I think he probably was mainly just a twitchy batsman.
 
Saj,

You have highlighted something that I have been wrestling with all along. Given his personal life, I can understand why Asif would do it and how a young guy like Aamer can be roped into it. What I have been unable to reconcile is why Butt would do it.

To a lot of us he seemed like quite an innocent guy and based on your dealings with him it appears he came across that way in person too. I've seen him live at matches when he's failed and he has looked genuinely hurt too, with expressions he couldn't possibly have faked.

He was the captain and obviously the head of the team, but he was never the dictator that certain other captains in the past accused of match-fixing have been. His relatively junior position and uncertainty about his batting means he couldn't possibly have forced his views on the other players given the likes of Yawar Saeed and Ijaz Butt were actually with the tour party - he simply wasn't in powerful enough a position to force anyone to do anything, except probably Aamer. Are his links to Mazar Majid as simple as they are made out to be?

In the same manner he is alleged to have forced Aamer, do you think Salman was also coerced by higher-ups within the PCB? Does he, to a certain extent, also deserve a degree of pity, as the issue may go beyond pure greed for him and maybe his hands were tied by more sinister threats? Money is a harsh mistress and obviously financial greed has taken the reputations of far richer guys than Butt, but for me something sits uneasily with his specific situation.

Thoughts?

soory brother but im going to have to disagree with you here...there are three ways you can truly know someone, if you live with them, do business with them and travel with them. I doubt any of us have done either of these with these people. therefore it is simply too much to assume we know them.We dont. Salman may seem like a down to earth character etc but behind it all could be something else. Afterall you are judged by the company that you keep and his character in my opinion isnt much if he's associating himself with mazhar and co..sorry but Butta is not what he seems to all and sundry!
 
Amir it does kind of make sense- youngster forced by more experienced guys who had probably done it many times before and convinced him it wasn't a risk.

Butt? Normally I have a theory or two but his actions have just baffled me. Was he really just a genuinely bad egg? He may well be just that - a wrong 'un.


But Amir had everything going for him! He had just started and had a whole career in front of him. There was no danger to his place in the team, he was already a star and a given in all our team line ups. Everyone loved him. He had so many admirers among the cricket stars of yesterday both in and outside the country.

And I would take to the 'gullible, impressionable' argument a little more willingly if he had come across as such in his interviews. The guy was way mature than his age and always knew exactly what he was talking about. Always saying the right thing. Always being wise.

I dont get it!
 
Its quite sad he got into this whole mess, he had all the talent in the world was my FAV Pak BAT...However I wont be backing him anymore even if he somehow manages to find a way out of this mess..
 
soory brother but im going to have to disagree with you here...there are three ways you can truly know someone, if you live with them, do business with them and travel with them. I doubt any of us have done either of these with these people. therefore it is simply too much to assume we know them.We dont. Salman may seem like a down to earth character etc but behind it all could be something else. Afterall you are judged by the company that you keep and his character in my opinion isnt much if he's associating himself with mazhar and co..sorry but Butta is not what he seems to all and sundry!
I'll buy what you are selling! I suppose if the PCB were going to blackmail someone, they will pick on a guy who they think will be willing to cheat and they found Butt, who seems to have decided to go through with it.

They wouldn't try that with someone clean like Gul would they?


Let me ask you a question though - don't you think there are bits about this case that leave a lot of questions unanswered, all the way from the NOTW evidence through to the PCB's defence and the player's motives?
 
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But Amir had everything going for him! He had just started and had a whole career in front of him. There was no danger to his place in the team, he was already a star and a given in all our team line ups. Everyone loved him. He had so many admirers among the cricket stars of yesterday both in and outside the country.

And I would take to the 'gullible, impressionable' argument a little more willingly if he had come across as such in his interviews. The guy was way mature than his age and always knew exactly what he was talking about. Always saying the right thing. Always being wise.

I dont get it!

I hadn't thought of it from that angle. When you put it like that and make the point that Aamer was undroppable, even if he refused and some seniors turned against him, maybe the peer pressure argument does lose some of it's strength, especially when combined with his maturity. Hmmm....
 
But Amir had everything going for him! He had just started and had a whole career in front of him. There was no danger to his place in the team, he was already a star and a given in all our team line ups. Everyone loved him. He had so many admirers among the cricket stars of yesterday both in and outside the country.

And I would take to the 'gullible, impressionable' argument a little more willingly if he had come across as such in his interviews. The guy was way mature than his age and always knew exactly what he was talking about. Always saying the right thing. Always being wise.

I dont get it!
You have a point, but when a player comes into the team, the seniors have a lot of influence on him. Even if Aamir wasnt pressurized, he was "influenced." That is where the whole system, and team atmosphere comes into play. And the seniors, specially the captain, vice captain, and management, are responsible for this
 
I can only imagine Salman was forced/bullied into doing this or hes just one of those people who like to "live on the edge"

There is no other possible reason for this, he was well off, an established cricket with a bright future and educated

Whatever the reason, whats the point?
Hes done it, he was fully aware of the possible consequences and he deserves to be punished
 
Top posts Saj and SoSami.

The tragedy of this entire vile episode is all three players involved had everything going for them, and I mean everything.

Salman had the honour of leading his country to victory against Australia and England (arguably two of the strongest Test sides going around), in alien and foreign conditions let's not forget.

Asif was once again raising eyebrows of the purists - and not the customary suspicious eyebrow-raising, but more the "how does he do that ball in ball out?!" nature.

Amir - well, what more can be said about him that hasn't been said already.

It's tough to comprehend isn't it. Especially if one tries to put the victories into any sense of perspective. I think Saj has conveyed the confusion in us all in two brilliant posts above.

I, for one, would have put Salman as the least likely of players to get involved in something like this. Intelligent, articulate, the guy who has been doing Sajdas after every milestone since his debut, the guy who welcomed back Yousuf with open arms and gave him his due respect in each and every interview thereafter.

Here's to hoping that time will reveal more than it conceals.
 
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, the guy who welcomed back Yousuf with open arms and gave him his due respect in each and every interview thereafter.

Yeah but you dont really buy his behaviour towards Moyo do you ?? I dont think you are that gullable (hope not)....
 
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Top posts Saj and SoSami.

The tragedy of this entire vile episode is all three players involved had everything going for them, and I mean everything.

Salman had the honour of leading his country to victory against Australia and England (arguably two of the strongest Test sides going around), in alien and foreign conditions let's not forget.

Asif was once again raising eyebrows of the purists - and not the customary suspicious eyebrow-raising, but more the "how does he do that ball in ball out?!" nature.

Amir - well, what more can be said about him that hasn't been said already.

It's tough to comprehend isn't it. Especially if one tries to put the victories into any sense of perspective. I think Saj has conveyed the confusion in us all in two brilliant posts above.

I, for one, would have put Salman as the least likely of players to get involved in something like this. Intelligent, articulate, the guy who has been doing Sajdas after every milestone since his debut, the guy who welcomed back Yousuf with open arms and gave him his due respect in each and every interview thereafter.

Here's to hoping that time will reveal more than it conceals.


I saw a programme called "Aik Din Geo Ke Saath" ages ago and have seen a lot of guys on that programme try to show they have credibility and despite their best efforts it's easy to see through them. None of us are naive when it comes to judging players based on the snapshots we see in the media (unless of course it involved attributing guilt based on NOTW evidence!) but I'm still not convinced he's all bad.
http://www.youtube.comwatch?v=dzI778BTtbw

He makes Islamic references that appear to be more naturally part of his language and as you said, did Sajdas from day1, not just as a tool to build his credibility after having made some mistakes. He also does pray before every ball too. With Salman Butt, he really did come across as a decent guy. Obviously no one is all good and he will have his own weakness.

Either he's:
1) a brilliant actor
2) changed his character the longer time he spent in the team
3) was forced into it

Maybe a combination of all three factors but as you said, Saj's brilliant posts sum up perfectly the confusion that a lot of us a feeling about Butt.
 
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He makes Islamic references that appear to be more naturally part of his language and as you said, did Sajdas from day1, not just as a tool to build his credibility after having made some mistakes. He also does pray before every ball too. With Salman Butt, he really did come across as a decent guy.

This is one aspect that I have noticed. When he first came into the team, he used to do some sort of zikr before each delivery. However, recently I haven't really noticed it.

I'm not going to judge him based on that, but it's interesting.
 
You have a point, but when a player comes into the team, the seniors have a lot of influence on him. Even if Aamir wasnt pressurized, he was "influenced." That is where the whole system, and team atmosphere comes into play. And the seniors, specially the captain, vice captain, and management, are responsible for this

Yea, that too. Maybe we are misjudging how much of an influence seniors can have in a dressing rooms like those of Asian teams, especially in this instance if the corruption goes all the way to the top of the PCB.
 
This is one aspect that I have noticed. When he first came into the team, he used to do some sort of zikr before each delivery. However, recently I haven't really noticed it.

I'm not going to judge him based on that, but it's interesting.

I'm pretty sure he still does that before most deliveries though.

You could see him do that from the dressing room in the two recent run-chases as well.

As SoSami said - his "inshallahs" and Islamic references seem to come pretty naturally and weren't forced.

As Russell Peters so eloquently put it in the accent of an Asian man:
"Ohhhhhh Sooo much confuuuuuuzon"
 
IMG_0096.jpg

I'm in this picture.... I'm the guy growing out of Salman's head. What a great day that was- £5 entry, beautiful weather, rare test victory, rare test victory against Australia, seeing Ricky Ponting throw away possibly his last chance of experiencing a test series victory in England as a captain, tension in losing wickets, every single run scored being cheered by our support, the textbook cover drive from Umar Gul first ball up to seal the game.

It felt great that day- I still had reservations about our inexperienced batting line-up Salman was persisting with, and I still wanted Younus back in to lead us, but I had hope that after beating Australia, we'd look forward to a bright future. I thought we'd do well against England in the test series. How wrong I was.

Where did it all go wrong? Why did it go wrong? Salman, I loved you, but you broke my heart man. You've practically destroyed our team in possibly getting yourself and two other key players in our team in getting banned. One of the them should have been a star for us for the next 15 years but you corrupted him- only god knows his future. You've hurt the fans more than you can imagine. I hope the money you received was worth it, because it's all you have left. You had all the love and respect of Pakistan and you threw it away. I hope the book is thrown at you and you are used as an example. It's heartbreaking that such a promising future career (possibly 10 more years at the top level) should be stopped prematurely, but I don't ever want you associated with Pakistan cricket again. You're an embarrassment to Pakistan fans and Pakistani people. Shame on you Salman.
 
I'm in this picture.... I'm the guy growing out of Salman's head. What a great day that was- £5 entry, beautiful weather, rare test victory, rare test victory against Australia, seeing Ricky Ponting throw away possibly his last chance of experiencing a test series victory in England as a captain, tension in losing wickets, every single run scored being cheered by our support, the textbook cover drive from Umar Gul first ball up to seal the game.

It felt great that day- I still had reservations about our inexperienced batting line-up Salman was persisting with, and I still wanted Younus back in to lead us, but I had hope that after beating Australia, we'd look forward to a bright future. I thought we'd do well against England in the test series. How wrong I was.

Where did it all go wrong? Why did it go wrong? Salman, I loved you, but you broke my heart man. You've practically destroyed our team in possibly getting yourself and two other key players in our team in getting banned. One of the them should have been a star for us for the next 15 years but you corrupted him- only god knows his future. You've hurt the fans more than you can imagine. I hope the money you received was worth it, because it's all you have left. You had all the love and respect of Pakistan and you threw it away. I hope the book is thrown at you and you are used as an example. It's heartbreaking that such a promising future career (possibly 10 more years at the top level) should be stopped prematurely, but I don't ever want you associated with Pakistan cricket again. You're an embarrassment to Pakistan fans and Pakistani people. Shame on you Salman.
Very well written, Grenade! :14:
Straight from the heart stuff!

Cheers!
 
Maybe as a vulnerable youngster Salman was led by seniors into spot fixing. Who knows how long this has been going on?
Once you're in it is impossible to get out. He could just be another victim.
 
IMG_0096.jpg

I'm in this picture.... I'm the guy growing out of Salman's head. What a great day that was- £5 entry, beautiful weather, rare test victory, rare test victory against Australia, seeing Ricky Ponting throw away possibly his last chance of experiencing a test series victory in England as a captain, tension in losing wickets, every single run scored being cheered by our support, the textbook cover drive from Umar Gul first ball up to seal the game.

It felt great that day- I still had reservations about our inexperienced batting line-up Salman was persisting with, and I still wanted Younus back in to lead us, but I had hope that after beating Australia, we'd look forward to a bright future. I thought we'd do well against England in the test series. How wrong I was.

Where did it all go wrong? Why did it go wrong? Salman, I loved you, but you broke my heart man. You've practically destroyed our team in possibly getting yourself and two other key players in our team in getting banned. One of the them should have been a star for us for the next 15 years but you corrupted him- only god knows his future. You've hurt the fans more than you can imagine. I hope the money you received was worth it, because it's all you have left. You had all the love and respect of Pakistan and you threw it away. I hope the book is thrown at you and you are used as an example. It's heartbreaking that such a promising future career (possibly 10 more years at the top level) should be stopped prematurely, but I don't ever want you associated with Pakistan cricket again. You're an embarrassment to Pakistan fans and Pakistani people. Shame on you Salman.


Post of the Month?
 
I'll buy what you are selling! I suppose if the PCB were going to blackmail someone, they will pick on a guy who they think will be willing to cheat and they found Butt, who seems to have decided to go through with it.

They wouldn't try that with someone clean like Gul would they?


Let me ask you a question though - don't you think there are bits about this case that leave a lot of questions unanswered, all the way from the NOTW evidence through to the PCB's defence and the player's motives?

to answer your question, in my mind the answer is No. There is no confusion. You see many people who live in Britain fail to understand the mentality we're dealing with here...British Pakistanis are very bholay bhalay...i know the type of lurkay these guys are...i understand the mentality...plus Asif does not surprise me as he was hanging out with juwari's and drug chursi's when he was in county anyway...
in my mind there is no confusion...only the confirmation of hypocrisy!!

Butt is a liar and a theif, and should be punished...all his portrayels of religiousity are a front, a veil to make him feel good about himslef or look for redemption..well its over now and he should get out of the game!!
 
With a couple of days to the commencement of the hearing in Doha, a timely bump.

I'm probably feeling like a lot of Pakistanis around the world, dazed, confused and wondering WHY !
 
A couple of days? How long is it going to last and when will we know their fate?
 
A couple of days? How long is it going to last and when will we know their fate?

Hearing is from January 6th-11th.

Not sure if they will announce the verdict and punishment immediately. Even if they do, my guess is that the three idiots will continue to waste their money and everyone's time by taking the case to the CAS which will drag it on for another year or so before they get their final guilty verdicts.
 
was the most devastating news for me after the Lahore attacks, many posters will know how big a fan I am of Salman.

was as if a family member had died, was left absolutely gutted, saddened and shattered with the spot-fixing allegations.

am hoping against hope that somehow all 3, and especially Salman will get cleared.
 
MJ, money rules, but guys like Asif and Butt were no slouches when it came to riches.

Albeit, Asif wasn't "born into money", he had done very well for himself having played IPL, club cricket in the UK and county cricket.

However Salman by all accounts was "born into money" and I remember a couple of first class players saying to me, that his family were so wealthy that he really did not need to play cricket.

This is why i realy do dislike SB, are you that hungry for money when youre already rich that you would sell youre country down the drain.

Asif is Mr.Dodgy, so i sort of expected it from him.

My sympathy is with Amir, he's young and vulnerable and impressionable. But he had his whole life ahead of him. I'm 17 and wouldnt have taken the money but i guess if youre from Pakistan, the amount of money they were to recieve was alot.

I just wish none of this happened.
 
I hope Salman Butt is banned for life, and is banned from all form of cricket even in Pakistan and can't play any role in any sporting activity in the country.
After every loss, i hate him more... He was a so bad batsman, at least he could have let Mohammed Amir out of this...
Just HATE HIMMMMM.
 
I hope Salman Butt is banned for life, and is banned from all form of cricket even in Pakistan and can't play any role in any sporting activity in the country.
After every loss, i hate him more... He was a so bad batsman, at least he could have let Mohammed Amir out of this...
Just HATE HIMMMMM.
He WAS a good batsmen,, who is soon going to get what he deserves.
 
Will be interesting to see how the punishments go really. Salman Butt appears to be the man in the firing line, especially after Waqar confirmed Butt was the one who told Aamer to bowl that no-ball when questioned in the dressing room.

He should really get the severest 'sentence' given he was captain although I still think it's a bit of a stretch to believe he didn't have guys above him who knew what was going on, if not actively involved.
 
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Will be interesting to see how the punishments go really. Salman Butt appears to be the man in the firing line, especially after Waqar confirmed Butt was the one who told Aamer to bowl that no-ball when questioned in the dressing room.

He should really get the severest 'sentence' given he was captain although I still think it's a bit of a stretch to believe he didn't have guys above him who knew what was going on, if not actively involved.

he admitted that on TV as well, its not exactly a huge revelation.
 
IMG_0096.jpg

I'm in this picture.... I'm the guy growing out of Salman's head. What a great day that was- £5 entry, beautiful weather, rare test victory, rare test victory against Australia, seeing Ricky Ponting throw away possibly his last chance of experiencing a test series victory in England as a captain, tension in losing wickets, every single run scored being cheered by our support, the textbook cover drive from Umar Gul first ball up to seal the game.

It felt great that day- I still had reservations about our inexperienced batting line-up Salman was persisting with, and I still wanted Younus back in to lead us, but I had hope that after beating Australia, we'd look forward to a bright future. I thought we'd do well against England in the test series. How wrong I was.

Where did it all go wrong? Why did it go wrong? Salman, I loved you, but you broke my heart man. You've practically destroyed our team in possibly getting yourself and two other key players in our team in getting banned. One of the them should have been a star for us for the next 15 years but you corrupted him- only god knows his future. You've hurt the fans more than you can imagine. I hope the money you received was worth it, because it's all you have left. You had all the love and respect of Pakistan and you threw it away. I hope the book is thrown at you and you are used as an example. It's heartbreaking that such a promising future career (possibly 10 more years at the top level) should be stopped prematurely, but I don't ever want you associated with Pakistan cricket again. You're an embarrassment to Pakistan fans and Pakistani people. Shame on you Salman.

You are not the only one feeling like that.. The thing is, you have expressed it awesomely :bow:
 
1 year on (tomorrow).

Still can't believe this actually happened.
 
Wow, can't believe how fast time rolls on. Seems as if this happened yesterday and it still pains me a lot.
 
Feels like yesterday. Disgraceful stuff.
 
We're all accountable for our actions, if not in this life, then in the hereafter... this is something we should all try and remember in the choices we make in our day to day lives!
 
Can't believe it's been a year. I've been reading through this thread and I kid you not, my eyes moistened up and still are.

Salman, what did you do? :( :(
 
could never in a billion years imagine Salman and Amir would be in on this.

Was my absolute favourite player before this.

Heatbreaking.
 
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