A drawn series in a place like England is still a fantastic achievement

[ethan hunt]

Yes this was a horrid performance and has left a sour taste in the mouth but lets have some perspective .
Not many teams are capable of a drawn series away from home in this era of home bullies , especially in a place like England .
Pakistan retain the trophy over England courtesy of a drawn series and i believe its a pretty decent acheivement from the side .
Better sides have come to these shores and lost cinvincingly . Yes pakistan were hammered in this game but they pretty much did the same to England in the 1st test .

There are some good signs amongst all the dissapountment

 

[Markhor]

Thank you. Some of the reaction makes you believe we were on the receiving of a whitewash.

Most would've taken a 1-1 draw in early season English conditions with this raw team.

 

[Buffet]

Yes, series was drawn and not lost. Some reactions here will make you think that Pakistan lost this test series.

 

[Oligochaetes]

Absolutely... 1-1 vs England in England is fantastic!

 

[Ab Fan]

England vs Pakistan last 4 test series:-

3-0 Pakistan in UAE 2012
2-0 Pakistan in UAE 2015
2-2 draw in England 2016
1-1 draw in England 2018

Overall 8-3 Pakistan. The results are quite visible. England should not be put alongside Aus/SA/Ind anymore.

 

[Loralai]

It is a good result especially for a developing side, but I suppose the abject surrender in this Test has a bitter taste to it.

It will be interesting to see what our Indian friends produce when they tour.

 

[goran]

Yes it is indeed a fantastic achievement for this young team. There are some serious weaknesses in batting though which need to be addressed. But overall it was a good performance.

 

[Buffet]

England vs Pakistan last 4 test series:-

3-0 Pakistan in UAE 2012
2-0 Pakistan in UAE 2015
2-2 draw in England 2016
1-1 draw in England 2018

Overall 8-3 Pakistan. The results are quite visible. England should not be put alongside Aus/SA/Ind anymore.

They can be put alongside if they do very well against other teams. Surely they are not doing so well against other teams , but making a point about not bracketing anyone based on how they played against one team.

 

[Pete Rose]

We found two genuine all-rounders.
Our bowling attack is looking potent.
Babar, Imam, and Salahuddin gave a decent account of themselves
The catching has been fantastic.
Nearly everything pakistan has done from a coaching and selection point of view has come off well.
But I have to imagine that Azhar and Shafiq are disappointed with their returns in this game.
Oerall a very good tour.

 

[SM1989]

We need to stop settling for mediocrity and overglorifying a drawn series. Any series not won is a failure and should not be glorified.

 

[fawad_wellwisher]

Drawing an away series should be worth many points more. Gaining 1 point over a higher ranked team is simply ludicrous.

 

[Buffet]

Drawing an away series should be worth many points more. Gaining 1 point over a higher ranked team is simply ludicrous.

Eng's rating point is below 100. If it was 120 then draw would have earned more points.

 

[fawad_wellwisher]

Eng's rating point is below 100. If it was 120 then draw would have earned more points.

Regardless.We all know that even drawing a series in away conditions is a big accomplishment.

 

[Buffet]

Regardless.We all know that even drawing a series in away conditions is a big accomplishment.

One of the big flaw in rating system.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

The bating was the main disappointment, but we knew it was weak beforehand. The bowling was actually better than I expected, the seam bowlers all did relatively well, we didn't really miss Wahab.

1-1 was a fair result, both sides seem to have similar strengths and weaknesses. Capable of turning it on, but also somewhat brittle in the batting dept.

 

[Savak]

A golden opportunity lost to win a series in England

 

[Markhor]

Drawing an away series should be worth many points more. Gaining 1 point over a higher ranked team is simply ludicrous.

Not bothering with rankings with the new ICC Test Championship coming up - hopefully a more rational points system will be introduced.

 

[cricketindiafan]

How many teams have drawn a series away from home. With such a young team, it is indeed a fantastic achievement. Except Azhar, Shafiq, Sarfaraz and Amir, every one else is still finding their feet in Test cricket. Before the series, if anyone said the series will be drawn, any Pak fan would have gladly taken it.

We will play England soon and will most likely get thrashed

 

[Friend786]

Drawing the series is great but losing by an innings is isn't.

 

[cricketindiafan]

Drawing an away series should be worth many points more. Gaining 1 point over a higher ranked team is simply ludicrous.

That will also mean a home side drawing / losing series being penalised equally heavily. So in the end, it will all even out.

 

[Mamoon]

Beating an out of form England is not a big deal though. They were there for the taking before they woke up from their slumber at Lord's. It remains to be seen if they can maintain this intensity against India.

 

[ads101]

It's not. This is a weak English team and a series that was ready for the taking. Even last series in England we should have won, we were the better side, we just couldn't clutch it when it counted.

It's a decent result as it wasn't a loss. But fantastic is pushing it.

 

[Savage]

That will also mean a home side drawing / losing series being penalised equally heavily. So in the end, it will all even out.

Finally someone gets it.

 

[ethan hunt]

Beating an out of form England is not a big deal though. They were there for the taking before they woke up from their slumber at Lord's. It remains to be seen if they can maintain this intensity against India.

You can only play whats infront of you .
Pakistan's record in england isnt a coincidence anymore . Not many teams are able to draw series let alone win in places like Sa . Aus . Eng , Nz these days .

 

[ethan hunt]

It's not. This is a weak English team and a series that was ready for the taking. Even last series in England we should have won, we were the better side, we just couldn't clutch it when it counted.

It's a decent result as it wasn't a loss. But fantastic is pushing it.

It may well have been a weak english side but this a drawn series is a good result relative to how most teams have toured away of late . Even those visiting England.

 

[Arham_PakFan]

Truth.Pakistan have now drawn their last 2 series in England.The record in the last 8 matches for Pakistan v England in England is 4-4

Last 12 Matches 8-3 and 1 Draw.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Beating an out of form England is not a big deal though. They were there for the taking before they woke up from their slumber at Lord's. It remains to be seen if they can maintain this intensity against India.

You were saying that it would take a miracle to stop England winning 2-0 in the pre-series prediction thread. Have some shame.

 

[Arham_PakFan]

People saying this was a weak England team are forgetting how inexperienced our team is.

Cook alone has played more matches than 2 of our most experienced players put together.Lets not talk about Broad,Anderson and Stokes/Woakes.A 1-1 result away is pretty credible.

 

[pillionrider]

I think England tapped into the motivation they were reserving for India after getting shocked in the 1st Test.

Maybe Pakistan shouldn't have won the 1st Test so convincingly

 

[ethan hunt]

People saying this was a weak England team are forgetting how inexperienced our team is.

Cook alone has played more matches than 2 of our most experienced players put together.Lets not talk about Broad,Anderson and Stokes/Woakes.A 1-1 result away is pretty credible.

The reaction would have been completely different had it been the same scoreline with Pak winning the 2nd test .
The dissapointemnt is understandable but the overreaction is not.

 

[Cricfan4eva]

Drawing an away series should be worth many points more. Gaining 1 point over a higher ranked team is simply ludicrous.

Drawing a 2 test series isn't same as drawing a 4 test series though. Which is why individual tests points make more sense.

Pakistan in 2015 did better, drew 2-2. A 2 test series doesn't allow slip-ups. Sri Lanka beat England 1-0 in a 2 test series few years back.

Hell, in 2014 India were 1-0 up after 2 tests and went onto to lose 3-1 in the end.

 

[msb314]

On paper - drawn series against England is a grrrat result but the manner of our capitulation in the last few days is alarming.

This England team is too poor to be inflicting an innings defeat on anyone. We have messed up big here.

 

[WhenSultansBowled]

Indeed. Don't forget this team is new and Broad/Jimmy are seasoned veterans who own visiting teams at home.

Don't feed the hating trolls. Always downplaying Pak victories and overstating losses

 

[Mamoon]

You were saying that it would take a miracle to stop England winning 2-0 in the pre-series prediction thread. Have some shame.

I did not take into account that England will turn up at Lord’s thinking that Pakistan will roll over.

 

[ManFan]

Great effort by the players.

But as someone above stated that it was the manner in which we gave up and lost within 3 days that was haunting.

I stated that it would be an upset if ENG don’t win 2-0 in the prediction thread.

The euphoria from Lords apparently carried over to Headingley where all seemed lost after Day 1. Its a damn shame because we finally had a young team that was performing.

 

[El Generico]

I did not take into account that England will turn up at Lord’s thinking that Pakistan will roll over.

How do you know what England was thinking? Why do you go to such extends just to discredit Pakistan?

What's wrong with admitting that your prediction of 2-0 to England was wrong and Pakistan did better than you expected?

 

[SarfiBabarHaris]

Fantastic is a bit too much, but 1-1 is a good result considering the young squad and conditions. With more experience the results will get better. Seniors were disappointing though.

 

[hadi123]

I did not take into account that England will turn up at Lord’s thinking that Pakistan will roll over.

Oh wow. Anything to take credit away from Pakistan.


Anyway, I agree with the OP, with a young side, in early summer, a draw away in a different continent is something to be proud of, and overall from this tour, there were more positives than negatives. Abbas has proven he is a proper bowler, not some trundler. Faheem Ashraf has shown glimpses of his potential, as has Shadab Khan.

 

[Artaxerxes]

We need to stop settling for mediocrity and overglorifying a drawn series. Any series not won is a failure and should not be glorified.

I was expecting England to win 2-0.Pakistan did well to draw the series.

 

[barah_admi]

I can take this tbh. I was expecting a 2-0 loss with such a young team but the way Imam, the bowlers, Faheem and in particular Shadab have largely played is phenomenal. This is a developmental side that can only get better.

Let's see how they upcoming test series play out.

 

[Kroll]

I wouldn't go as far as to say it was a fantastic achievement, a series win would have been but overall, a satisfactory outcome nonetheless.

 

[IMMY69]

Of course it’s a decent result.
However we had England on the ropes and we just needed to bat sensibly.

Too many lose shots and that is unacceptable...

 

[Iddy]

Totally agree. Also Sarfraz needs to sort his batting out.

 

[Adil_94]

Yes this is a young team inexperienced in english conditions. Did great to draw the series. Only shame is there is no 3rd Test

 

[the_game]

I did not take into account that England will turn up at Lord’s thinking that Pakistan will roll over.

Seems like Pakistan did the same in the second test for the opposition. Or maybe that doesn't count because England won this one and this wasn't a fluke?

 

[Iddy]

Anything positive at all from you @ Mamoon?

 

[Ab Fan]

Anything positive at all from you @Mamoon?

Positive is that if opposition under-estimates Pakistan, they have to pay for that.

The current Pakistan side is arguably 5th best side in the world and better than the current England side. Pakistan won't lose 0-4 to India in India like England did and they won't do worse than what England did in Australia as well.

 

[Mamoon]

Seems like Pakistan did the same in the second test for the opposition. Or maybe that doesn't count because England won this one and this wasn't a fluke?

England have a core of top players. Cook, Root, Bairstow, Stokes, Anderson and Broad are elite players, but England appear to lack motivation and energy.

They need to sack Bayliss. They need to do better; they have the players to be a top 4 team, we don’t.

 

[Mamoon]

How do you know what England was thinking? Why do you go to such extends just to discredit Pakistan?

What's wrong with admitting that your prediction of 2-0 to England was wrong and Pakistan did better than you expected?

Not discrediting Pakistan, but England have underperformed for a long time now. They are better than what they have produced.

 

[MenInG]

Well played Pakistan. A young team will be inconsistent but will find its feet soon.

 

[BreadPakoda]

Well played. Undefeated (series results) in England since 2010 if I am not wrong. We have lost 2 major series during this time.

 

[Savage]

Well played. Undefeated (series results) in England since 2010 if I am not wrong. We have lost 2 major series during this time.

Pakistan might be the most successful Test team in England for this decade while India is easily Worst(even WI has done better than India)

 

[BreadPakoda]

Pakistan might be the most successful Test team in England for this decade while India is easily Worst(even WI has done better than India)

Yes.
We lost a series against them at home as well, which makes it even worse.

 

[rizwanak]

Proud of this young team especially shadab Fahim abbass, we are only the 2nd team to not lose 2 series in a row in England.

 

[bantu]

How many teams have drawn a series away from home. With such a young team, it is indeed a fantastic achievement. Except Azhar, Shafiq, Sarfaraz and Amir, every one else is still finding their feet in Test cricket. Before the series, if anyone said the series will be drawn, any Pak fan would have gladly taken it.

We will play England soon and will most likely get thrashed

Exactly !!!

For all the hype about "improved" Indian team (both bowling & batting) ... the results in England and Australia might not be much different from South Africa series...

 

[Bleedgreen4ever]

A golden opportunity lost to win a series in England

That was in 2006 and 2016 when PAK had so calledsettled and WORLD CLASS batting line ups(according to some people)

Honestly speaking this ENG team was the first team in a decade to defeat SA in ENG so no need to underrate them.

Winning one match against them is a big achievement indeed

We had inexperienced teams that toured ENG in 1981,2010 too that did much worse

This team has done well

 

[Bleedgreen4ever]

Not discrediting Pakistan, but England have underperformed for a long time now. They are better than what they have produced.

When was the last time ENG lost a test series in ENG dear?

Just asking

From what I remember even SA failed to defeat them in ENG this time

they may be trash outside home but at home they are the most potent in the world

 

[Friend786]

Exactly !!!

For all the hype about "improved" Indian team (both bowling & batting) ... the results in England and Australia might not be much different from South Africa series...

Your no.1 team can't possibly play worse than no.7 team

 

[Napa]

It seems that the teams were rather evenly matched, with good bowling, mentally fragile batting (with the exception of non-regular players like Shadab, Bess and Buttler) and failure of the captains to make the correct decision after winning the toss.

The batsmen of neither team could handle batting the morning of the first day, and low first innings score proved decisive in both games.

 

[Napa]

We will play England soon and will most likely get thrashed

Our pacers will win the series for us.

 

[Buffet]

When was the last time ENG lost a test series in ENG dear?

Just asking

From what I remember even SA failed to defeat them in ENG this time

they may be trash outside home but at home they are the most potent in the world

Eng lost last time to SL in 2014. Before that they lost to SA in 2012.

 

[bantu]

Your no.1 team can't possibly play worse than no.7 team

We are capable !!! ..... We are ranked number 1 because of our strong home and "decent" away performances .. All we can hope is that that everything ( bowling/batting/fielding) come together to give a consistent performance overseas....

 

[Aman]

This England team was there for the taking. Pakistan fans should be disappointed even with the young inexperienced side.

 

[blackanhyellow]

This England team was there for the taking. Pakistan fans should be disappointed even with the young inexperienced side.

Well lets leave that judgement for when another subcontinent team plays England later this summer.

 

[Aman]

Not discrediting Pakistan, but England have underperformed for a long time now. They are better than what they have produced.

I don't think they are, it's just the players that use to win them matches are getting up there in age and aren't anywhere as good as they use to be (Cook, Anderson and Broad). Root isn't stepping up to make up the runs either.

 

[Mamoon]

When was the last time ENG lost a test series in ENG dear?

Just asking

From what I remember even SA failed to defeat them in ENG this time

they may be trash outside home but at home they are the most potent in the world

England have been far from potent at home. Since 2011, they have lost to South Africa in 2012 and Sri Lanka in 2014.

They have been similar to Pakistan in the UAE - they have won most series, but they have been far from dominant or convincing.

Of all the major non-Asian teams, they are by far the most vulnerable team at home.

 

[blackanhyellow]

England have been far from potent at home. Since 2011, they have lost to South Africa in 2012 and Sri Lanka in 2014.

They have been similar to Pakistan in the UAE - they have won most series, but they have been far from dominant or convincing.

Of all the major non-Asian teams, they are by far the most vulnerable team at home.

Honest question,

what would happen if England win against India later this summer.

Would you be willing to reevaluate this series?

Or are you going to prepare reasons (excuses) ahead of time as to why England won that series and couldnt win against Pak?

Just saying, its a real possibility.

 

[The_Odd_One]

England have a core of top players. Cook, Root, Bairstow, Stokes, Anderson and Broad are elite players, but England appear to lack motivation and energy.

They need to sack Bayliss. They need to do better; they have the players to be a top 4 team, we don’t.

They have lost to WI of all teams at home with the same set of players. They were blown away by both Australia and NZ recently. They have lost 8 tests to Pakistan with these players. An Indian rookie batsman scored a triple hundred against this team. There is no need for any hypothesis or predictions when there is a very big sample size available.

Cook is finished. Root can't score a hundred.Bairstow averages below 40. Buttler is unproven. They have no world class batsmen coming. Anderson and Broad won't be around much longer and there is no new world class fast or spin bowler warming their bench.

 

[ManFan]

They have lost to WI of all teams at home with the same set of players. They were blown away by both Australia and NZ recently. They have lost 8 tests to Pakistan with these players. An Indian rookie batsman scored a triple hundred against this team. There is no need for any hypothesis or predictions when there is a very big sample size available.

Cook is finished. Root can't score a hundred.Bairstow averages below 40. Buttler is unproven. They have no world class batsmen coming. Anderson and Broad won't be around much longer and there is no new world class fast or spin bowler warming their bench.

That new kid Bess was impressive with bat and ball.

 

[Kaka4pope]

Haris and Babar, need the Azhar and Asad treatment, they are effectively more promising versions of the latter two - Haris is not young mind.

There are two very capable batsman there who, with hard work, could be our century makers...reckon the Pak think tank know this is a weak area - there were plenty of starts...

 

[The_Odd_One]

That new kid Bess was impressive with bat and ball.

Still unproven.

 

[Mamoon]

They have lost to WI of all teams at home with the same set of players. They were blown away by both Australia and NZ recently. They have lost 8 tests to Pakistan with these players. An Indian rookie batsman scored a triple hundred against this team. There is no need for any hypothesis or predictions when there is a very big sample size available.

Cook is finished. Root can't score a hundred.Bairstow averages below 40. Buttler is unproven. They have no world class batsmen coming. Anderson and Broad won't be around much longer and there is no new world class fast or spin bowler warming their bench.

Cook is not as good as he was before, but he is still better than most openers. Root is too good not to come out of this lean patch, and Bairstow and Buttler are potentially world class batsmen.

Broad has quite a few years in the tank, but yes replacing the likes of Cook and Anderson will not be easy.

It is still a very good team but they have underperformed. Bayliss needs to go.

 

[Mamoon]

Honest question,

what would happen if England win against India later this summer.

Would you be willing to reevaluate this series?

Or are you going to prepare reasons (excuses) ahead of time as to why England won that series and couldnt win against Pak?

Just saying, its a real possibility.

Some teams do better against certain teams. It is a phenomena that we see in every sport.

In this decade, Pakistan have had the wood over England, even though, they have struggled against lesser teams.

Similarly, England have done well against teams better than Pakistan, but for some reason, they have been poor against Pakistan.

India has comfortably been a better side than Pakistan for about 15 years, but they have not done well against England, even though, they have done better than Pakistan against other teams. As a result, they have been consistently ranked higher.

It won’t be surprising if England beat India, and it won’t change anything. India are well ahead of Pakistan in all formats and will continue to do better against most opposition.

 

[The_Odd_One]

Some teams do better against certain teams. It is a phenomena that we see in every sport.

In this decade, Pakistan have had the wood over England, even though, they have struggled against lesser teams.

Similarly, England have done well against teams better than Pakistan, but for some reason, they have been poor against Pakistan.

India has comfortably been a better side than Pakistan for about 15 years, but they have not done well against England, even though, they have done better than Pakistan against other teams. As a result, they have been consistently ranked higher.

It won’t be surprising if England beat India, and it won’t change anything. India are well ahead of Pakistan in all formats and will continue to do better against most opposition.

Remind me again when did India last win a test series outside Asia?

 

[Savak]

Actually nope. If the team had lost the first test but had shown character to come back and win the second test, then the 1-1 result would be acceptable. But the fact we won the first test but played really poorly in the second test makes this bitter. England were always going to come back hard and treat the Pakistani side with more respect.

 

[Xoib]

Actually nope. If the team had lost the first test but had shown character to come back and win the second test, then the 1-1 result would be acceptable. But the fact we won the first test but played really poorly in the second test makes this bitter. England were always going to come back hard and treat the Pakistani side with more respect.

That does not make any sense a 1-1 is the same whether you win the first game or the second

 

[Vildoc]

It was a lottery of a test series. The side which batted first lost. The conditions took away the competitiveness of the matches.

 

[Bubby]

Yes.
We lost a series against them at home as well, which makes it even worse.

But you are neglecting 2 points
1st when India played their in 2011 most of our players were well past their prime, they were tired after 4 exhausting months of wc and ipl that series should have been 2 -3 months later.
Second 2013 we did actually well in first 2 matches in fact we were ahead but the inexperience of that side caught them in next 3 matches that is why I said that 2 match series is a lottery, and it's the 4-5 match series that tests the mental toughness of a team.

 

[Destroyer88]

Some positives from the tour is definitely abbas... shadab.. and fahim to some extent. Amir showed a glimpse of his former self during a few spells. Hasan ali seemed ordinary. All in all the result could have been much worse after our ireland scare. So a drawn series doesnt seem too bad now bearing in mind a lot of PPers thought that beating pakistan 2-0 would have been a formality

Pakistan's top order is definitely a concern barring the 1st innings at lords. Sarfaraz as a keeper and decision making has done well in general (yes you can criticise his toss decision but the fact is that we made the pitch look more difficult than it was actually) but as a batsman he has fared worse than our tailender. His batting has become a big big concern

 

[Hawkeye]

Not good enough. We're not minnows, and Eng were at their lowest morale.

If it was a 3 or 5 match series, we would've been bulldozed.

Thank the short series! You get to call it a draw.

Shafiq and Sarfraz need to go or spot put in danger if we want to have a decent chance outside the UAE.