A message for Babar Azam and his fans: Focus on ODIs and retire from Test and T20I

[mominsaigol]

Dear Babar Azam and Babar fans,

I sincerely urge you to retire from the T20 and Test formats effective immediately.

Babar Azam, in his relatively short ODI career, has already scored 19 ODI centuries at an average of 56 and a strike rate of 88, which is a terrific record—even if one were to argue that some of these performances came against second-string attacks.

All Babar needs are a couple of iconic ICC tournament knocks and possibly standout performances in the Asia Cup to solidify his legacy as an all-time great (ATG) in ODI cricket. At present, he is only missing match-winning tournament performances in ODIs. Statistically, he has already achieved impressive numbers.

However, with his focus divided between T20 and Test cricket, I doubt he will be able to reach his full potential in ODIs. It’s safe to say that Babar Azam has struggled in Test cricket, with his average now falling to 42.77.

His T20I average has also dipped to 39, which is decent, but his strike rate of 129 in the format is underwhelming.

ODI cricket is the only format where Babar has excellent statistical numbers, and if he dedicates himself to excelling in this format, particularly in tournaments, he can easily establish himself as an ATG ODI player.

However, his legacy might be tarnished in ODIs if he continues to underperform in Tests and T20s.

My advice is to permanently replace Babar Azam in the T20 and Test formats with Saim Ayub and focus on grooming Saim Ayub as Pakistan's main white-ball batter. However, it’s important to avoid creating a culture of stardom around Saim and refrain from giving him captaincy too early in his career.

All eyes should now be on Saim Ayub, who is young and undeniably classy as a batter.

 

[FearlessRoar]

I totally agree with you – this is the only way Babar Azam can become a legend in at least ODIs.

 

[mominsaigol]

I totally agree with you – this is the only way Babar Azam can become a legend in at least ODIs.

If babar retires with a 50+ avg in odi, 25 centuries and 3 iconic tournament knocks, then he'll easily be no 1 in odi all time.

He's missing iconic match winning tournament knocks since in this era odi is mostly a tournament only format.

 

[ads101]

Disagree. He has been excellent in ODIs for most his career and I think he will get back into form there at least to some degree. In t20s, there are very few options for no.3 position. Babar even out of form tends to perform when he plays there at 3. He should stick there permanently, shouldn’t have aspirations of opening anymore in t20s. And as long as we don’t have a batsmen who will truly excel at no.3 I don’t see the drawback playing him there. Saim will open anyway, they aren’t in competition.

In tests I don’t really know. He could retire there, but honestly there aren’t a wealth of batsmen banging down the door to come in. And for all his faults, Babar is most likely better technically equipped and talented than those guys. You could move Kamran and Saud up and if they perform that will make us stronger as we can’t afford to keep having a weak top 4, the collapse is already on if we go 4 wickets down cheaply. But even if that happens, Babar could easily bat 5, maybe he’d do better. And again I can’t think of a name that would come in to replace at 3 or 5. It’d probably be Abdullah at 3 I imagine who is already out of form, and then made into a makeshift no.3? Doesn’t sound too great.

Not really a fan of removing internationally proven batsmen especially ones who have performed for years without identifying proper replacements. I’m not aware of any batsmen performing to the Kamran/Saud level right now in domestic.

 

[Varun]

He has had a Kohli-type decline without reaching the heights Kohli did.

 

[Varun]

And ODIs don't matter. Even an Imam-ul-Haq or KL Rahul can average 50 and strike at 100. Means nothing.

 

[Kianig89]

Babar threads pop out daily like fresh vegetables in fruit Market. Yes Babar decline is an issue but there alot other issues to solve.

 

[mominsaigol]

And ODIs don't matter. Even an Imam-ul-Haq or KL Rahul can average 50 and strike at 100. Means nothing.

Atleast carefully read the op.Thanks

 

[Varun]

Atleast carefully read the op Thanks

Yeah I read it.

And ODIs still don't matter.

 

[mominsaigol]

Yeah I read it.

And ODIs still don't matter.

Is that what you guys felt for WC final .

 

[Varun]

Is that what you guys felt for WC final .

Few care about ODIs - and their journey for irrelevance began in the late-2000s/early-2010s.

 

[mominsaigol]

Few care about ODIs - and their journey for irrelevance began in the late-2000s/early-2010s.

I thought Indians didn't care about odi

 

[Mercurial]

I am not sure why Pakistani fans expect too much from Babar Azam in Test cricket? There are so many sad posts on social media regarding his failures in Test cricket. The reality is he never was a potentially 50-averaging Test cricket batsman to begin with. I remember when he made his debut, his FC average was 40 or so. His strongest format was always 50-overs cricket right from the start, as he averaged in the 50s in List-A cricket during his starting days. Domestic stats are the best judge of any player. Even if he retires from Test cricket, it won't matter, and even if he doesn't still, it won’t matter anything to Pakistan cricket as the domestic talent is pure garbage. Since the ouster of Imran Khan as a PM, everything is on a decline in this country; you name it.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

He should retire from T20. it's probably affecting his test game.

Focus on Test + ODI and he could be a decent player.

 

[Rana]

Babar threads pop out daily like fresh vegetables in fruit Market. Yes Babar decline is an issue but there alot other issues to solve.

What are those other issues besides your continuous attempts to ignore the biggest, glaring ones?

 

[jamie smith]

I am not sure why Pakistani fans expect too much from Babar Azam in Test cricket? There are so many sad posts on social media regarding his failures in Test cricket. The reality is he never was a potentially 50-averaging Test cricket batsman to begin with. I remember when he made his debut, his FC average was 40 or so. His strongest format was always 50-overs cricket right from the start, as he averaged in the 50s in List-A cricket during his starting days. Domestic stats are the best judge of any player. Even if he retires from Test cricket, it won't matter, and even if he doesn't still, it won’t matter anything to Pakistan cricket as the domestic talent is pure garbage. Since the ouster of Imran Khan as a PM, everything is on a decline in this country; you name it.

The domestic structur during during Imran khans reign was ideal and was starting to show results.
Having too much team has led to the emergence of mediocre players who look world beaters in domestics but become scared cats in internationals.

 

[jamie smith]

What are those other issues besides your continuous attempts to ignore the biggest, glaring ones?

shan and babar are undoubtedly the biggest issues,they need to dropped from all formats asap.

 

[W63L35]

Below is a list of batsmen (1-7 position) in last year & half with minimum 200 runs and average below 34.

Yes, Babar has had a horrible run of scores but the bigger problem is that in the list below there are FOUR Pakistani batsmen who also are not scoring i.e. Saim, Kamran, Shan and Abdullah Shafique.

There are many top class batsmen are in this list but they are not being as critisized as Babar because most of the other batsmen in their team are scoring runs. For example, Rohit Sharma, Kohli, Labuschagne, Crawly etc.

Just for comparison... Babar vs Rohit Sharma... similar average - Babar last 10 tests, Rohit last 15 tests.

 

[Kianig89]

What are those other issues besides your continuous attempts to ignore the biggest, glaring ones?

Issue#1 Does the captain of team merits a position with 32 average

Issue#2 Where are fast bowlers???

Issue#3 Who Is the designated allrounder in the team , every good test side has an allrounder Kallis Jadeja Stokes Mathews

Issue#4 Why inexperienced players are picked or prefferd in the side like Hurraira recently

Issue#5 Why is the team captain one trick pony, just throws the ball to Spin Uncles

 

[Mockingbird]

Below is a list of batsmen (1-7 position) in last year & half with minimum 200 runs and average below 34.

Yes, Babar has had a horrible run of scores but the bigger problem is that in the list below there are FOUR Pakistani batsmen who also are not scoring i.e. Saim, Kamran, Shan and Abdullah Shafique.

There are many top class batsmen are in this list but they are not being as critisized as Babar because most of the other batsmen in their team are scoring runs. For example, Rohit Sharma, Kohli, Labuschagne, Crawly etc.

Just for comparison... Babar vs Rohit Sharma... similar average - Babar last 10 tests, Rohit last 15 tests.

View attachment 150197

Except that Rohit Sharma has never really established himself in Test cricket. He wasn’t even in our squad & became a regular in Tests only 3-4 years back in the sunset of his career. For Babar to have that kind of nos. in the peak of his career is kind of telling, no?

 

[IMMY69]

Dear Babar Azam and Babar fans,

I sincerely urge you to retire from the T20 and Test formats effective immediately.

Babar Azam, in his relatively short ODI career, has already scored 19 ODI centuries at an average of 56 and a strike rate of 88, which is a terrific record—even if one were to argue that some of these performances came against second-string attacks.

All Babar needs are a couple of iconic ICC tournament knocks and possibly standout performances in the Asia Cup to solidify his legacy as an all-time great (ATG) in ODI cricket. At present, he is only missing match-winning tournament performances in ODIs. Statistically, he has already achieved impressive numbers.

However, with his focus divided between T20 and Test cricket, I doubt he will be able to reach his full potential in ODIs. It’s safe to say that Babar Azam has struggled in Test cricket, with his average now falling to 42.77.

His T20I average has also dipped to 39, which is decent, but his strike rate of 129 in the format is underwhelming.

ODI cricket is the only format where Babar has excellent statistical numbers, and if he dedicates himself to excelling in this format, particularly in tournaments, he can easily establish himself as an ATG ODI player.

However, his legacy might be tarnished in ODIs if he continues to underperform in Tests and T20s.

My advice is to permanently replace Babar Azam in the T20 and Test formats with Saim Ayub and focus on grooming Saim Ayub as Pakistan's main white-ball batter. However, it’s important to avoid creating a culture of stardom around Saim and refrain from giving him captaincy too early in his career.

All eyes should now be on Saim Ayub, who is young and undeniably classy as a batter.

I have a question for you.
Please answer sincerely..

If Babar was given the option of just playing Odi's and T20's and with this getting NOC's to play the various leagues around the world, would he take it?

 

[Rana]

I have a question for you.
Please answer sincerely..

If Babar was given the option of just playing Odi's and T20's and with this getting NOC's to play the various leagues around the world, would he take it?

I have a question for you
Please answer sincerely…

Why should Babar ‘be given the option’ to play T20s? You are either good enough to play a format or you are not. Who’s giving him the option if he has no business playing it in the first place?

 

[Cricket Warrior]

not only babar.. shan is a real culprit who needs to be removed asap.. how the hell he stick to the team with the average of 30?

 

[IMMY69]

I have a question for you
Please answer sincerely…

Why should Babar ‘be given the option’ to play T20s? You are either good enough to play a format or you are not. Who’s giving him the option if he has no business playing it in the first place?

Sorry I didn't realise I was replying to the same person..

 

[Rana]

Sorry I didn't realise I was replying to the same person..

It doesn’t change the unwarranted sense of entitlement you are giving to Babar Azam, which is the biggest issue that you are neglecting.

 

[IMMY69]

It doesn’t change the unwarranted sense of entitlement you are giving to Babar Azam, which is the biggest issue that you are neglecting.

Ok
Remove T20's, Babar retiring from T20's and Tests, what will that lead to?
Will he only play ODI's and milk the t20 leagues for what it's worth?

 

[Kianig89]

So who should replace Babar and Rizwan in T20 Xi

 

[Extra_Cover]

I still have faith in Babar. For me Babar is arguably our best bat in SENA conditions. In home conditions where the ball turn square Babar is arguably a liability. Perhaps with Babar more like horses for courses strategy might suit. This is still a proposal based on further Babar's failures. At the moment Babar warrants a place in the test side especially in SENA conditions.

 

[Kianig89]

As per revolutionaries drop Babar and Rizwan, get Shan & Usman in team

Shan
Saim
Usman
KG
TT
Irfan
Agha
SSA
Rauf
JK
Abrar

 

[Rana]

Ok
Remove T20's, Babar retiring from T20's and Tests, what will that lead to?
Will he only play ODI's and milk the t20 leagues for what it's worth?

Yeah do whatever he wants in his free time. Play in the format he is useful for. If that means only ODI, so be it. What’s the issue with this?

 

[IMMY69]

Yeah do whatever he wants in his free time. Play in the format he is useful for. If that means only ODI, so be it. What’s the issue with this?

Right.
So we agree that he will go around the world trying to maximise his earning potential...

So where does this leave our test cricket? What precedent does the set and is it a good example for the youngsters/up and coming cricketers?

 

[Bhaijaan]

Babar Azam makes all 3 formats on his talent. If I was heading PCB, the discussion i would have had with him through the selection panel, head coach etc is the intent in his batting. I want 2 year from Babar where he goes out there and unleashes himself and shows everything he can do with the bat. No more defensive mindset. No more anchoring the inning mentality etc. just go out there and try to show your batting talent, try to dominate and put the pressure on the opposition.

 

[Rana]

Right.
So we agree that he will go around the world trying to maximise his earning potential...

So where does this leave our test cricket? What precedent does the set and is it a good example for the youngsters/up and coming cricketers?

What precedent does it set? If your not good enough for a format and you really want to play it, then you should have the enthusiasm to do what is necessary to improve in it. If he doesn’t want to play the FC format to get his game in shape, well that’s his choice. Someone hungry enough to represent Pakistan will step in. Life goes on. The world doesn’t end if Babar isn’t good enough to play a format or two.

 

[Rana]

Babar Azam makes all 3 formats on his talent

What’s his talent in T20 cricket?

 

[Rana]

All eyes should now be on Saim Ayub, who is young and undeniably classy as a batter.

He actually is too young, too classy

 

[jamie smith]

What’s his talent in T20 cricket?

tuk tuk

 

[jamie smith]

i dont think saim is our answer to test cricket

He actually is too young, too classy

 

[Rana]

tuk tuk

Maybe his talent is to play a lovely cover drive on a ball in the slot whereas most T20 level batters would send the same ball out of the park anyways?

 

[gazza619]

I still have faith in Babar. For me Babar is arguably our best bat in SENA conditions. In home conditions where the ball turn square Babar is arguably a liability. Perhaps with Babar more like horses for courses strategy might suit. This is still a proposal based on further Babar's failures. At the moment Babar warrants a place in the test side especially in SENA conditions.

Finally some sense on this forum.

 

[Rana]

Finally some sense on this forum.

He’s one of your RizBar guys. Of course he will make sense to you.

 

[W63L35]

Except that Rohit Sharma has never really established himself in Test cricket. He wasn’t even in our squad & became a regular in Tests only 3-4 years back in the sunset of his career. For Babar to have that kind of nos. in the peak of his career is kind of telling, no?

I am not sure if I understand your whole post clearly.

Do you think BCCI selectors did not know what they were doing when they made a player captain of the test team when he had "never really" established himself in the team? We all know, hind sight is 20/20.

Rohit had already played 52 tests when his streak of last 15 tests started - that yielded an average of 23.
Not to mention he was (still is) the captain of a top test team.

Then in your last (highlighted) sentence, are you implying that it is not OK for a player to have a lean patch in the peak of his career but it is OK to have a lean patch at the beginning or the tail end of the career? Many greats of the game had similar lean patches at the highest peaks of their careers ... and the selectors were smart enough to keep playing those players.

I am remember correctly, even Sachin had a lean patch or two. Imagine BCCI dropping him because of those patch/es at the peak of his career.

One quick Google search showed this article:

Great batsmen who went through bad patches in their Test career

Cricket, like life, is a great leveller, and even the most accomplished players suffer bad patches – a look at some of modern cricket’s finest Test batsmen, who went through poor runs at some point during their careers.Subscribe to the Wisden Cricket YouTube channel for post-match awards, player...

www.wisden.com

 

[IMMY69]

What precedent does it set? If your not good enough for a format and you really want to play it, then you should have the enthusiasm to do what is necessary to improve in it. If he doesn’t want to play the FC format to get his game in shape, well that’s his choice. Someone hungry enough to represent Pakistan will step in. Life goes on. The world doesn’t end if Babar isn’t good enough to play a format or two.

I think you've missed the point, again..
Also please tone down your replies because it's like listening to a whinny know it all... reminds my why I decided to ignore you in the first place

 

[jamie smith]

So who should replace Babar and Rizwan in T20 Xi

babar is fine in t20s,rizwan can be replaced by haris

 

[mominsaigol]

He actually is too young, too classy

Naw, Babar is too young and too classy while saim is old and almoat at the end of his career.

Ask @Bewal Express he will enlighten you, he's the math wiz who figured out that 30 is young but 22 is old.

 

[gazza619]

He’s one of your RizBar guys. Of course he will make sense to you.

There was no need for a separate RizBar thread though. You and your lot discuss them in every other thread anyway.

 

[Rana]

I think you've missed the point, again..
Also please tone down your replies because it's like listening to a whinny know it all... reminds my why I decided to ignore you in the first place

Well, your point seems bogus.

What are you trying to argue? If a player who is struggling in a format is dropped from that format, it sets a bad precedent for young cricketers? What kind of point is that?

Young player: oh no, if I don’t perform in this format, I will get dropped from the side just like that player who hasn’t been performing for however long no matter how well respected he is!

Where is the bad precedent set? Is it by the PCB for dropping the underperforming player, or is it by the underperforming player who doesn’t do what’s necessary to regain his spot in the side he was dropped in by working hard in the domestics?

As far as my tone is concerned, I don’t think I have been harsh or disrespectful. That’s for the mods to decide and they will do their work if it’s not in line with their expected code of conduct when posting/arguing here.

 

[Bewal Express]

Naw, Babar is too young and too classy while saim is old and almoat at the end of his career.

Ask @Bewal Express he will enlighten you, he's the math wiz who figured out that 30 is young but 22 is old.

What are you jabbering on about. I am a big fan of Saim. Aren't you the guy that said Saim was rubbish?

 

[mominsaigol]

What are you jabbering on about. I am a big fan of Saim. Aren't you the guy that said Saim was rubbish?

I did say that and I won't deny it. When he came on the scene he failed 25 t20 games in a row and failed all his test games which warrants a drop.

No team on the planet would persist with someone for this long no matter the hype.

However as soon as he came in odi he became a beast and his t20 performance also improved which is why I changed my mind.

Difference between me and you, is that, I'm grounded in reality. I back saim now that he's shown he's worth it.

You on the other hand are continuing to back babar azam when he was never a t20 and test player and his statistics proved it.

To top it off your too young and too classy argument doesn't even make any sense. He's 30 years old almost 31 now. He has like 3 to 4 years left before his reactions decline lol.

 

[mominsaigol]

The message is in the OP. If I was babar, I'd retire from the test and t20 format.

Babar has one advantage ans that's the fact that he has a 56 avg and 19 odi centuries.

He's only missing iconic knocks. If he manages to play a few knocks like inzi did or saeed did or heck even his buddy saim and fakhar have, then he'll easily end up as Pakistan's greatest one day batsmen.

However atm his only iconic one day knock is Nz 2019 which was an accumulative knock and had haris sohail take all the pressure off. Not a bad innings but not good wither.

Babar needs to focus on becoming an X factor in odi.

 

[Rana]

The message is in the OP. If I was babar, I'd retire from the test and t20 format.

Babar has one advantage ans that's the fact that he has a 56 avg and 19 odi centuries.

He's only missing iconic knocks. If he manages to play a few knocks like inzi did or saeed did or heck even his buddy saim and fakhar have, then he'll easily end up as Pakistan's greatest one day batsmen.

However atm his only iconic one day knock is Nz 2019 which was an accumulative knock and had haris sohail take all the pressure off. Not a bad innings but not good wither.

Babar needs to focus on becoming an X factor in odi.

But if he gets dropped and then he retires, it will set a bad precedent apparently.

 

[mominsaigol]

But if he gets dropped and then he retires, it will set a bad precedent apparently.

Genuinely speaking though, I've offered the perfect pathway for babar fans.

Babar fans want us to believe that he's the greatest Pakistani batter ever produced. And in the case of some extreme fans like heddie, The greatest thing since Bradman in cricket.

I've offered them a very easy pathway. Just have babar focus on odi and play match winning knocks that surpass his Nz 2019 knock. 5 to 7 iconic knocks + finishing his career with a 50+ avg and 22 to 25 centuries would easily put him as Pakistan's greatest odi player of all time.

Their wouldn't even be a single debate on it.

But the question remains, is babar willing to do that? If he willing to get rid of his world cup mentality that falhar was the X factor and he wasn't?

If he willing to develop lofted strokes? Of he willing to adopt an aussie sam konstas or Jake fraser mindset and just rush forward and attack regardless of who the bowler is?

If he willing to utterly decimate bowlers in flat track pitches and beat them at their own game like Brooks can?

Is he willing to set aside his own ego and evolve his game like Steve smith has tried to over the years in shorter formats?

^^ Si far the answer has been no, As long as this exists. He won't end up as pak's greatest odi batter, not even close.

 

[Bewal Express]

I did say that and I won't deny it. When he came on the scene he failed 25 t20 games in a row and failed all his test games which warrants a drop.

No team on the planet would persist with someone for this long no matter the hype.

However as soon as he came in odi he became a beast and his t20 performance also improved which is why I changed my mind.

Difference between me and you, is that, I'm grounded in reality. I back saim now that he's shown he's worth it.

You on the other hand are continuing to back babar azam when he was never a t20 and test player and his statistics proved it.

To top it off your too young and too classy argument doesn't even make any sense. He's 30 years old almost 31 now. He has like 3 to 4 years left before his reactions decline lol.

So you couldn't see Saims talent and you have the audacity to criticise me.

 

[mominsaigol]

So you couldn't see Saims talent and you have the audacity to criticise me.

Yes cause you can't see to the fact that age 30 is not young in cricket terms

 

[Ibrahim95]

It's simple, should Babar choose to retire from Tests and T20I today, he will still be considered a Modern Day Great... It's funny how many people have started making these claims that Babar was never a Test and T20I player... IMAO he is the leading run scorer in T20I with 4200 runs and 3 T20I centuries.. he is not only is a great T20I player but one of the greatest of all time

And in Tests, he is only 1 of 9 ELITE Pakistan batsmen to play 60 test matches and score 4000+ runs at Avg of 40+...

He is only 1 of 2 batsmen to score 4000+ runs in all formats at an Avg of 40+... And people who say Babar is not a Test and T20I player probably have ZERO knowledge of cricket...

 

[Bewal Express]

Yes cause you can't see to the fact that age 30 is not young in cricket terms

How many runs has Joe Root scored since he was 30? How many runs did YK scored in his 30s? It shows how silly you guys are to write off our most talented batsman nurtured this century. Babar showed in SA that he is much better opener than our openers and I maintain that he needs to open.

 

[mominsaigol]

How many runs has Joe Root scored since he was 30? How many runs did YK scored in his 30s? It shows how silly you guys are to write off our most talented batsman nurtured this century. Babar showed in SA that he is much better opener than our openers and I maintain that he needs to open.

Joe root before turning 30 has 7332 test runs and 17 test centuries and at avg of 49.9 in test cricket? After turning 30 he's literally scored 19 more in 4 years record time and increased his avg > 50?

What are you talking about

 

[Bewal Express]

Joe root before turning 30 has 7332 test runs and 17 test centuries and at avg of 49.9 in test cricket? After turning 30 he's literally scored 19 more in 4 years record time and increased his avg > 50?

What are you talking about

19 100s is incredible. Thanks for proving my point.

 

[mominsaigol]

How many runs has Joe Root scored since he was 30? How many runs did YK scored in his 30s? It shows how silly you guys are to write off our most talented batsman nurtured this century. Babar showed in SA that he is much better opener than our openers and I maintain that he needs to open.

YK before turning 30 had 15 test centuries at an avg of 46?

After turning 30 he retired with 34 test centuries, an avg of 52 and 10 k test runs?

Not only were yk and root significantly ahead of babar in test cricket at age 30, but their averages went up and up and they scored centuries at a much quicker pace while babar's avg is going down and down?

You're making the same mistake you made when you argued rizwan was a better gloverwork keeper them qdk and boucher lol.

You need to seriously research topics before making claims. Year by year performances are available on howstat lol.

 

[mominsaigol]

19 100s is incredible. Thanks for proving my point.

What point? That root and yk are one of the greatest test players of all time and massive improved their avg and doubled their test centires once they turned 30 till present/retirement

While Babar went from 49 to 42 and decreased his avg and hasn't scored a single test century since then?

What point are you trying to make?

 

[mominsaigol]

@Bewal Express

Root at age 30, 17 test centuries, 49 avg
Yk at age 30, 15 test centuries 46 avg.

Root at age 34, 36 test centuries, close to breaking Pointings test run tally. 50+ avg, YK at retirement by 2017, 52 avg, 34 test centuries > 10K runs.

Babar at age 30, 42 avg, 9 test centuries and nearly 6K runs away from 10K test runs? What sort of comparison are you making?

 

[Bewal Express]

What point? That root and yk are one of the greatest test players of all time and massive improved their avg and doubled their test centires once they turned 30 till present/retirement

While Babar went from 49 to 42 and decreased his avg and hasn't scored a single test century since then?

What point are you trying to make?

My point is that 30 is young for batsman and often the best days are ahead of them. We saw in SA that Babar has a good future as opener and has more than enough technical knowledge know how to succeed. He was Technically head and shoulders above Shaan even though Shaan got more runs. Babar played Rabada like an opener and left the ball like an opener. He just has to accept that that's where his future lies.
His problem is spin and by opening, he would in most conditions, have runs on the board. His other problem is the lapses in concentration, and that remained a problem in both tests.
You guys can hate but no one is going to convince me that he is finished at the age of 30. If you and your Mochi friend want to believe that, well good for you.

 

[Rana]

It's simple, should Babar choose to retire from Tests and T20I today, he will still be considered a Modern Day Great... It's funny how many people have started making these claims that Babar was never a Test and T20I player... IMAO he is the leading run scorer in T20I with 4200 runs and 3 T20I centuries.. he is not only is a great T20I player but one of the greatest of all time

And in Tests, he is only 1 of 9 ELITE Pakistan batsmen to play 60 test matches and score 4000+ runs at Avg of 40+...

He is only 1 of 2 batsmen to score 4000+ runs in all formats at an Avg of 40+... And people who say Babar is not a Test and T20I player probably have ZERO knowledge of cricket...

Don Ibraheem

 

[mominsaigol]

My point is that 30 is young for batsman and often the best days are ahead of them. We saw in SA that Babar has a good future as opener and has more than enough technical knowledge know how to succeed. He was Technically head and shoulders above Shaan even though Shaan got more runs. Babar played Rabada like an opener and left the ball like an opener. He just has to accept that that's where his future lies.
His problem is spin and by opening, he would in most conditions, have runs on the board. His other problem is the lapses in concentration, and that remained a problem in both tests.
You guys can hate but no one is going to convince me that he is finished at the age of 30. If you and your Mochi friend want to believe that, well good for you.

You guys can hate but no one is going to convince me that he is finished at the age of 30. If you and your Mochi friend want to believe that, well good for you.

Lets not get into hypotheticals as we'll see whatll happen 5 years down the line.

Now back to topic, Who said Shan is > Babar? If anyone said that then they should be scrutinized. Babar is obviously a better batter then Shan, Shan has only managed to outperform Babar at home conditons since he became captain however even so he still remains a 30 avg batter for pakistan and one of the weakest test openers of all time who's played more then 5 to 10 years as an international cricketer.

As for hate this and that, The difference between root and YK as I pointed out was that they didn't slump in their 30's. Infact both YK and Root massively improved once they hit 30.

Root was a very avg batsmen in test cricket before 30. 17 test centuries and a 49 avg isn't bad for a 30 year old but most of his scores were achieved on easy tracks and he disnt have a stellar away record.

But after 30, he's been a top quality batter in every conditon excluding Australia where he's been poor and arguablythe spin mamba pakistan series, otherwise he's bossed and dominated more then any other batsmen these past 4 years.

However even at 30, He was far ahead of Babar.

Same with YK, YK at age 30 was a Laxman level test batter. He would play a few iconic knocks here and their but otherwise was avg. It was only once he hit 30 and > that he became one of the greatest test batters of all time.

Problem is that unlike Root and yk (2 names you mentioned btw, not me), Babar was far behind them at the same stage. And while Root and YK's career trajectory went upwards, Babar's career trajectory has gone downwards.

Babar turned 30 in October and since then he's been

A) Circus clown against Bangladesh on road pitches

B) Dropped from the eng series due to poor form.

C) Showed decent performance against Sa in the 2nd innings but overall was avg

D) Has had his test avg dropped from 45 to 42 all in the span of 2 months. Those 0, 1, 4, 31 scores haven't helped his case in raising that avg.

 

[Bewal Express]

You guys can hate but no one is going to convince me that he is finished at the age of 30. If you and your Mochi friend want to believe that, well good for you.

Lets not get into hypotheticals as we'll see whatll happen 5 years down the line.

Now back to topic, Who said Shan is > Babar? If anyone said that then they should be scrutinized. Babar is obviously a better batter then Shan, Shan has only managed to outperform Babar at home conditons since he became captain however even so he still remains a 30 avg batter for pakistan and one of the weakest test openers of all time who's played more then 5 to 10 years as an international cricketer.

As for hate this and that, The difference between root and YK as I pointed out was that they didn't slump in their 30's. Infact both YK and Root massively improved once they hit 30.

Root was a very avg batsmen in test cricket before 30. 17 test centuries and a 49 avg isn't bad for a 30 year old but most of his scores were achieved on easy tracks and he disnt have a stellar away record.

But after 30, he's been a top quality batter in every conditon excluding Australia where he's been poor and arguablythe spin mamba pakistan series, otherwise he's bossed and dominated more then any other batsmen these past 4 years.

However even at 30, He was far ahead of Babar.

Same with YK, YK at age 30 was a Laxman level test batter. He would play a few iconic knocks here and their but otherwise was avg. It was only once he hit 30 and > that he became one of the greatest test batters of all time.

Problem is that unlike Root and yk (2 names you mentioned btw, not me), Babar was far behind them at the same stage. And while Root and YK's career trajectory went upwards, Babar's career trajectory has gone downwards.

Babar turned 30 in October and since then he's been

A) Circus clown against Bangladesh on road pitches

B) Dropped from the eng series due to poor form.

C) Showed decent performance against Sa in the 2nd innings but overall was avg

D) Has had his test avg dropped from 45 to 42 all in the span of 2 months. Those 0, 1, 4, 31 scores haven't helped his case in raising that avg.

Babar will be back and if it makes happy, then you keep hoping for failure. We are PKs, not American Mochis that pray and jump on failure. Remember a few weeks ago, it Was Riz and suddenly your Mochi friends have gone quiet. You keep hating until your hearts content, we will support our man.

 

[mominsaigol]

@Bewal Express

I'll give you one benefit of the doubt btw.

Babar is an all format batter while YK and Root were rest specialists and to this date their hasn't been a single all format player who's avg 50+ in test cricket.

De villers you can count, but de villers wasn't a t20 international player, he was rubbish at it, but if you wish to count Brooks and de villers and a few others despite ignoring their odi and t20 atrocities then go for it.

However you can use the argument that Babar doesn't need to avg 50 in test since he's all format.

It's also why I made this thread, Should call it quits and focus on becoming an odi great before his odi career suffers as well.

 

[Bewal Express]

@Bewal Express

I'll give you one benefit of the doubt btw.

Babar is an all format batter while YK and Root were rest specialists and to this date their hasn't been a single all format player who's avg 50+ in test cricket.

De villers you can count, but de villers wasn't a t20 international player, he was rubbish at it, but if you wish to count Brooks and de villers and a few others despite ignoring their odi and t20 atrocities then go for it.

However you can use the argument that Babar doesn't need to avg 50 in test since he's all format.

It's also why I made this thread, Should call it quits and focus on becoming an odi great before his odi career suffers as well.

You don't have to give me any benefit of the doubt. It makes no difference either way. If Babar wastes away, and there is no doubt that recent failures are making it look that way, then it will be a total waste of 15 years investment in Babar. I am fan, and I believe in my man to come good.

 

[mominsaigol]

Babar will be back and if it makes happy, then you keep hoping for failure. We are PKs, not American Mochis that pray and jump on failure. Remember a few weeks ago, it Was Riz and suddenly your Mochi friends have gone quiet. You keep hating until your hearts content, we will support our man.

I'm not an American Mochi either. Infact I hate America as a country since I feel like in some ways their system is backwards despite being the most developed country in the world, While Australia is the right balance as a country in terms of living.

Now about riz, Rizwan has been a good odi captain but a rubbish t20 one. Which is a fair assessment. I was wrong about him when it came to odi captaincy since he's pretty good at it.

And if you're referring to test cricket, Rizwan is fine in test, I don't have any issues with him. Avg 40+ in test is fine for a wk batter and he bats at no 6 so he doesn't bother anyone.

However the critism about rizwan in t20 is still valid, infact his game vs sa was even worse then his Asia cup final innings.

As for Babar, No one is hoping for his failures. Look at the title of this thread? It literally advises Babar to focus on the one format where he can become an atg in.

However you have to be realistic, his time in test cricket and t20 cricket is over and 99% of nations would have dropped him by now However he's lucky that Pakistan is bone dead dry in terms of batting talent atm but saim ayub is the perfect candidate to replace him in all formats.

Their is no reaosn to back Babar as an opener once saim ayub returns.

Babar was never a good batter in fc and local t20 and in international cricket it shows.

Saim can do the job just fine. However yes if it comes down to Babar and Shan, I'd prefer shan on flat decks and babar in overseas conditons.

 

[mominsaigol]

You don't have to give me any benefit of the doubt. It makes no difference either way. If Babar wastes away, and there is no doubt that recent failures are making it look that way, then it will be a total waste of 15 years investment in Babar. I am fan, and I believe in my man to come good.

All I'm saying is, Saim ayub is the better investment.

He's young, already has 3 odi centuries to his name that are > Babar's entire career since his odi centuries lead to wins in aus and sa something Pakistan hasnt done since an entire millenia + his 53 ball century against Zimbabwe is in the record books as one of the fastest achieved even if it was against a minnow.

His onoy issue is test and t20 where he only has one good t20 knock and in test he's struggling but he's 22-23. He'll be fine.

Better to invest in him then Babar as a test opener lol.

 

[Rana]

Professor engaging in some pipe dreams of seeing Babar reignite his career into the shape of Root and YK post the age of 30

 

[Bewal Express]

All I'm saying is, Saim ayub is the better investment.

He's young, already has 3 odi centuries to his name that are > Babar's entire career since his odi centuries lead to wins in aus and sa something Pakistan hasnt done since an entire millenia + his 53 ball century against Zimbabwe is in the record books as one of the fastest achieved even if it was against a minnow.

His onoy issue is test and t20 where he only has one good t20 knock and in test he's struggling but he's 22-23. He'll be fine.

Better to invest in him then Babar as a test opener lol.

I agree that Saim needs investment and time and when the likes of you and others lost faith in him, I kept faith. There is no guarantee that he will become the player that his talent should aspire to but IA he does. For me Babar should open with him and justify our 15 year investment.
One of the things is that you don't have an eye talent. For me, Babar and Saim should open in both ODi and Tests. Babar needs to be dropped for T20s as there is no reason for him to be picked for these games that are no more valuable than charity matches. As I said, I am a Babar fan, and I want him to succeed. You and your Mochi friend can quote me to your hearts content. You can also quote me as saying that he is still young and classy to fade away. I am happy to get the derision if I am wrong as I am good taking the piiss out of others when they get it wrong.

 

[topspin]

Professor engaging in some pipe dreams of seeing Babar reignite his career into the shape of Root and YK post the age of 30

Root has always been elite against pace and spin. Younis Khan has been good against pace and goat against spin. He was averaging above 50 for most of his career.

Babar is above average against pace and a bunny against spin. No chance he averages 50+ by the time he retires.

 

[topspin]

Babar will be back and if it makes happy, then you keep hoping for failure. We are PKs, not American Mochis that pray and jump on failure. Remember a few weeks ago, it Was Riz and suddenly your Mochi friends have gone quiet. You keep hating until your hearts content, we will support our man.

Not this sh1t again. Give it a break. No Pakistan fan wants Babar to fail. No one asked him to embarrass Pakistan cricket. Why is that so difficult to understand?

You sound like Tanvir Ahmed.

Tell us what's the motive for your blind support of Babar? Are you part of his lobby (like Tanvir Ahmed is)? or is it because IK wanted him captain or is it because you're deluded?

 

[Rana]

@mominsaigol

One thing is, you don’t have an eye for talent like Professor of defence against the dark arts has.

 

[Rana]

Not this sh1t again. Give it a break. No Pakistan fan wants Babar to fail. No one asked him to embarrass Pakistan cricket. Why is that so difficult to understand?

You sound like Tanvir Ahmed.

Tell us what's the motive for your blind support of Babar? Are you part of his lobby (like Tanvir Ahmed is)? or is it because IK wanted him captain or is it because you're deluded?

100% this

 

[Golu-momin]

Babar azam is a thunderstorm or cyclone of talent those who are taking him lightly they will regreat .Most talented batsman ever born on earth, he deliberately underperform that’s his way to pay respect to bradman,sachin,lara,viv else if he decides he can surpass all of them.

 

[BouncerGuy]

Babar should definitely be rested from tests now until he works on his technique against spin.

 

[Mockingbird]

I am not sure if I understand your whole post clearly.

Do you think BCCI selectors did not know what they were doing when they made a player captain of the test team when he had "never really" established himself in the team? We all know, hind sight is 20/20.

Rohit had already played 52 tests when his streak of last 15 tests started - that yielded an average of 23.
Not to mention he was (still is) the captain of a top test team.

Then in your last (highlighted) sentence, are you implying that it is not OK for a player to have a lean patch in the peak of his career but it is OK to have a lean patch at the beginning or the tail end of the career? Many greats of the game had similar lean patches at the highest peaks of their careers ... and the selectors were smart enough to keep playing those players.

I am remember correctly, even Sachin had a lean patch or two. Imagine BCCI dropping him because of those patch/es at the peak of his career.

One quick Google search showed this article:

Great batsmen who went through bad patches in their Test career

Cricket, like life, is a great leveller, and even the most accomplished players suffer bad patches – a look at some of modern cricket’s finest Test batsmen, who went through poor runs at some point during their careers.Subscribe to the Wisden Cricket YouTube channel for post-match awards, player...

www.wisden.com

Many Indians including me were never in favor of Rohit Sharma being drafted as Test captain on the back of his white ball exploits. He became a captain simply because of Kohli resigning in the wake of that disastrous Ganguly feud and not because he deserved to be the captain. We are still playing the price for that stupid decision by the selectors.

Are you seriously trying to compare Babar with Sachin? Sachin started playing cricket when he was 16, so him hitting a lean patch or 2 in his 30s was not completely unexpected. Plus his lean patches were more injury induced and not due to technical deficiencies . However a guy like Babar, who barely plays red ball cricket & has only 1 century in SENA conditions can’t be compared to that kind of run and shouldn’t be expected to treated with kid gloves. His technical issues are apparent and instead of sending him back to domestics and asking him to work on those, fans like you automatically think that him persisting will take care of all his issues.

 

[Cricket Warrior]

now its time for Babar to take a long break from Test cricket and focus only playing ODIs

 

[mominsaigol]

Root has always been elite against pace and spin. Younis Khan has been good against pace and goat against spin. He was averaging above 50 for most of his career.

Babar is above average against pace and a bunny against spin. No chance he averages 50+ by the time he retires.

Theirs also a big difference that @Bewal Express is missing.

Yk at age 30 had 15 centuries at an avg of 46 while root had 17 centuries at at avg of 49.

When yk retired, He had a 52 avg, 10K test runs, 34 test centuries and a 50 avg in aus. YK kept improving and improving. Same with root who has scored 19 more centuries in 4 year record time and upped his avg > 50.

If anyone follows their test career trajectory, both these 2 improved year by year. They have consistently been getting better and better.

Babar has decreased his avg from 49 t9 42 since ramiz left. His career is headed in a downward trajectory. Big difference.

Also I disagree with YK being good againat pace, He was elite against pace just like spin. He averages 50 in aus which is a bilo bounce haven. Reason why people assume yk is a spin basher is because he played alot in uae.

But he's top tier against pace as well.

 

[mominsaigol]

@mominsaigol

One thing is, you don’t have an eye for talent like Professor of defence against the dark arts has.

I agree. I should have known babar is too young and too classy while Saim Ayub is old and weary.

Genuinely though Saim is very classy as a batter, most left handed batters from Pakistan like saim, Haris, Saeed, saud usually are.

Yousaf was also very classy.

Babar is okay ig. Ignoring his form slump, i do think he has a classy cover drive and is easy on the eyes vs pace in odi. Very very very ugly batter against spin though.