A Realistic Plan For israel's Future

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Just a thought after watching an analysis of how Turkiye is now at an advanced stage of military development where they might be untouchable by the lunatics in Tel Aviv. Considering their border with Syria, this is something which future israeli govts will have to address.

My thoughts would be that a future PM of israel could offer to withdraw to the pre-1967 borders in exchange for recognition by the Muslim countries that have not officially done so. Gaza and the resettlement of Arabs inside israel would be more problematic because of the land grab by settlers, but Hamas should be persuaded to observe a truce while a workable plan is drawn up.

An israel which is prepared to live alongside Palestinians as Palestinians allowed them to live in Palestine for centuries would go a long way to healing decades of conflict. Obviously this presents challenges, but there has to be some movement towards reconciliation to avoid dragging the whole world into israel's wars.

 

[aboveandbeyond]

Just a thought after watching an analysis of how Turkiye is now at an advanced stage of military development where they might be untouchable by the lunatics in Tel Aviv. Considering their border with Syria, this is something which future israeli govts will have to address.

My thoughts would be that a future PM of israel could offer to withdraw to the pre-1967 borders in exchange for recognition by the Muslim countries that have not officially done so. Gaza and the resettlement of Arabs inside israel would be more problematic because of the land grab by settlers, but Hamas should be persuaded to observe a truce while a workable plan is drawn up.

An israel which is prepared to live alongside Palestinians as Palestinians allowed them to live in Palestine for centuries would go a long way to healing decades of conflict. Obviously this presents challenges, but there has to be some movement towards reconciliation to avoid dragging the whole world into israel's wars.

Wont Happen. Zionest Extremists have Been Planning the expansion of the Greater Israel Project for decades. Every leader they elect, this is the Primary focal Point of their tenure.

 

[Rajdeep]

OP is presenting the situation from the opposing side, which is fair, but any serious discussion about Israel’s future also needs to take the Israeli perspective into account.

First and foremost, Israel’s short-term reality is dominated by security concerns...particularly from groups like Hamas and Hezbollah. These Iran-backed proxies represent immediate threats, and from Israel’s standpoint, it’s difficult to seriously pursue long-term peace while those threats remain active. Neutralizing or significantly weakening them is seen as a prerequisite for stability.

Then there is Palestanian question. There is no sustainable future for Israel without addressing Palestinian statehood or rights.

There are 3 realistic paths:
1. Two state solution where both Israel and Palestine state co-exist.
2. Israel controls all territory between the Jordan River and Mediterranean
3. A middle hybrid arrangement of shared givernance and open borders

None of these options are easy, and each comes with major political and practical challenges.

In the end, a realistic plan for Israel’s future isn’t about one big breakthrough. It’s more likely to come from gradual de-escalation, combined with a credible political horizon for Palestinians....while still maintaining Israel’s security and internal stability.

#Rajdeep

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

OP is presenting the situation from the opposing side, which is fair, but any serious discussion about Israel’s future also needs to take the Israeli perspective into account.

First and foremost, Israel’s short-term reality is dominated by security concerns...particularly from groups like Hamas and Hezbollah. These Iran-backed proxies represent immediate threats, and from Israel’s standpoint, it’s difficult to seriously pursue long-term peace while those threats remain active. Neutralizing or significantly weakening them is seen as a prerequisite for stability.

Then there is Palestanian question. There is no sustainable future for Israel without addressing Palestinian statehood or rights.

There are 3 realistic paths:
1. Two state solution where both Israel and Palestine state co-exist.
2. Israel controls all territory between the Jordan River and Mediterranean
3. A middle hybrid arrangement of shared givernance and open borders

None of these options are easy, and each comes with major political and practical challenges.

In the end, a realistic plan for Israel’s future isn’t about one big breakthrough. It’s more likely to come from gradual de-escalation, combined with a credible political horizon for Palestinians....while still maintaining Israel’s security and internal stability.

#Rajdeep

You are too used to seeing everything through the zionist lens which has been presented through the international media for 50 years. It does no harm to see from a fresh perspective. In fact in the long term it will be beneficial for the Jewish population in the middle east as it will give them back the security in the middle east they shared for centuries.

 

[gazza619]

Really excited about the Gaza 2035 Marshall Plan: Proposed by PM Bibi, this involves a three-stage reconstruction of Gaza as a "massive free trade zone"

 

[Stewie]

OP is presenting the situation from the opposing side, which is fair, but any serious discussion about Israel’s future also needs to take the Israeli perspective into account.

First and foremost, Israel’s short-term reality is dominated by security concerns...particularly from groups like Hamas and Hezbollah. These Iran-backed proxies represent immediate threats, and from Israel’s standpoint, it’s difficult to seriously pursue long-term peace while those threats remain active. Neutralizing or significantly weakening them is seen as a prerequisite for stability.

Then there is Palestanian question. There is no sustainable future for Israel without addressing Palestinian statehood or rights.

There are 3 realistic paths:
1. Two state solution where both Israel and Palestine state co-exist.
2. Israel controls all territory between the Jordan River and Mediterranean
3. A middle hybrid arrangement of shared givernance and open borders

None of these options are easy, and each comes with major political and practical challenges.

In the end, a realistic plan for Israel’s future isn’t about one big breakthrough. It’s more likely to come from gradual de-escalation, combined with a credible political horizon for Palestinians....while still maintaining Israel’s security and internal stability.

#Rajdeep

HAMAS is an Israeli construct. Hezbollah, yes, I agree with is backed up by Iran but they will not have a reason to exist if Palestine is realized and the are given their land and independence.

 

[emranabbas]

it would be better to shift them to India its the only country that loves them plus they have mother father relation bichare behan bhai apas me in mil jaye ge.

 

[Champ_Pal]

it would be better to shift them to India its the only country that loves them plus they have mother father relation bichare behan bhai apas me in mil jaye ge.

Let’s be honest. Israel can whoop the behinds of all hating Islamic nations if they want.
I understand wanting peace, but saying that they will be shifted out of Israel is day dreaming.

 

[Markhor]

The peace camp in Israel is virtually dead. Their society has moved so far rightwards with no sizeable constituency supporting attempts at Palestinian dialogue. Anti-Arab racism is endemic.

The Knesset also overwhelmingly voted against the creation of a Palestinian state.

Bar significant outside pressure (primarily from the US) that disincentivises settlement expansion and stops the blank check for Israeli militarism - it's hard seeing progress being be made.

A one-state solution is a recipe for permanent civil war and apartheid where a Palestinian majority are second class citizens. A two-state solution is preferable but the settlements render a contiguous Palestinian state almost unviable.

Perhaps a hybrid model, i.e. an EU-style confederation is an option where there's two independent states, but closely intertwined with joint institutions governing security, resource sharing, religious sites, a common currency etc.

 

[RexRex]

There are 57 official islamic countries. Let the Jews have their tiny strip of land. There is something seriously wrong with muslims who obsess over this issue when you look at this map.

 

[gazza619]

There are 57 official islamic countries. Let the Jews have their tiny strip of land. There is something seriously wrong with muslims who obsess over this issue when you look at this map.


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I agree with you brother RexRex

 

[RexRex]

I agree with you brother RexRex

I salute your good sense, brudda

 

[Rajdeep]

There are 57 official islamic countries. Let the Jews have their tiny strip of land. There is something seriously wrong with muslims who obsess over this issue when you look at this map.


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Dont expect any sensible answer to this post

 

[Rajdeep]

I agree with you brother RexRex

Another Dhurandar in making after @Bhaijaan

 

[ads101]

There are 57 official islamic countries. Let the Jews have their tiny strip of land. There is something seriously wrong with muslims who obsess over this issue when you look at this map.


View attachment 163642

In hindsight Palestinians would have been better off if the 1948 Arab-Israeli war never happened. You could argue that Israel shouldn’t have been given the land. But with so many Arab countries, and still half of Jerusalem, I think in theory Arabs could have lived side by side in peace with an Israeli independent state. Even the land Israel was given, about 50% of it was desert. Let alone the fact it was a tiny patch of land.

The UN overwhelming voted in favour of a creation of Israel. I think they made the wrong decision. If the war in 1948 had succeeded there would be no Israel who would have been wiped out. Nor there would have been Palestine, given Arab countries particularly Jordan went with the motive to expand territory. And we can see Israel wining basically understandably created a monster from a people that now had survived an elimination a second time after the holocaust. Neither outcome was a great one whoever won the war.

I’ve said a lot of the blame is on that UN vote. They made the wrong decision. But after it was made, I think it was better to respect that decision.

 

[ElRaja]

israel has come out terribly from this conflict, whatever fear their military could project is gone, they lack conventional ground or naval firepower, and the world knows the iron dome is full of holes and too expensive to run against cheap missles, realistically they need to replace bibi and focus on their internal demographics.

 

[gazza619]

Another Dhurandar in making after @Bhaijaan

The original and only dhurandar on this forum is brother @Bhaag Viru Bhaag

 

[Suleiman]

The original and only dhurandar on this forum is brother @Bhaag Viru Bhaag

Chalo jee you’re playing Jewrandar character and Dhurandar character being played by Bhaijaan on this same forum now.

All the best to you two secret agents

 

[gazza619]

Chalo jee you’re playing Jewrandar character and Dhurandar character being played by Bhaijaan on this same forum now.

All the best to you two secret agents

Please allow me to clarify, I am here to spread a message of peace. Judaism is rooted in the pursuit of peace, and I am not a secret agent. Together with our Indian brothers, we seek unity and understanding across the world. The Jewish commitment to peace, expressed through the Hebrew word shalom, goes far beyond the absence of conflict. It represents an active and profound pursuit of wholeness, security, harmony, and wellbeing. Judaism emphasizes the creation of peace in all aspects of life, between individuals, communities, and nations.

 

[KingKhanWC]

it’s a temporary outpost, no different to previous crusader occupiers. In 10 or 100 years, Muslims will re-conquest, sending Europeans back to Europe. No recognition is possible now.

 

[Major]

There are 57 official islamic countries. Let the Jews have their tiny strip of land. There is something seriously wrong with muslims who obsess over this issue when you look at this map.


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Issue isnt about jews vs muslims

Its jews vs palestinians.

Palestinians recognize themselves as a separate entity and dont consider themselves arabs.

So, the issue isnt about oh some muslim lost his land, the issue is about palestinian nationalism.

They way you trying to simplify it, if someone said give khalistan land from india punjab, as indians have whole of india to them, would you agree to that?

 

[Major]

Dont expect any sensible answer to this post

A sensible answer would be to give khalistanis land from india punjab, because indians have whole of india to themselves.

But would u guys say yes to that?

 

[RexRex]

In 10 or 100 years , Muslims will re-conquest , sending Europeans back to Europe .

Why send them back there ? In 100 years, everybody in Europe will be saying As-salamu alaykum.

 

[RexRex]

Issue isnt about jews vs muslims

The reason pakistanis care about the issue is because of the jews vs muslims angle. Be honest for once.

 

[Major]

The reason pakistanis care about the issue is because of the jews vs muslims angle. Be honest for once.

Pakistan shows solidarity due to muslim factor. But, pakistanis are not the one that will decide the outcome.

Point is you made a stupid and ill informed post grouping palestinians with arabs and now trying to divert towards pakistanis.

Next time maybe educate yourself before posting

 

[ads101]

The reason pakistanis care about the issue is because of the jews vs muslims angle. Be honest for once.

Maybe Muslims are a bit biased as they’re supporting their own. But lots of people support Palestine even Jews. And I’ve seen Muslims supporting Israel.

I think an interesting question is if Israel had been Christian and the country was created to have one part of Jerusalem Christian, would we have seen the same response? Britain after all was the controlling power until many of those countries in the area were given freedom.

At the time I think Arab countries thought Jews could be hit without much fight back or other countries getting involved. Which kind of happened in 1948, none of the bigger countries really came out to defend Israel (maybe they sent weapons, but no direct involvement). These days USA themselves would step in and stop it. I think if it were a Christian country, they might fear other countries involvement when trying to attack.

It’s strange. Jews have general been persecuted over thousands of years forced to flee from country to country. While Christians and Muslims have made up most of the religious wars, often in the name of trying to convert others. Israel is their last stand, straw. Which is probably why they are so paranoid about security and retaliate tenfold. The world has forced them to be like this. And probably shouldn’t have dumped it at the Middle East’s doorstep.

 

[RexRex]

Point is you made a stupid and ill informed post grouping palestinians with arabs and now trying to divert towards pakistanis.

Next time maybe educate yourself before posting

Read the first post, numpty. OP was asking about the recognition of Israel from Arab countries, which the latter won't do due to many reasons .. one of which is the territory they lost in previous wars.

 

[RexRex]

Maybe Muslims are a bit biased as they’re supporting their own. But lots of people support Palestine even Jews. And I’ve seen Muslims supporting Israel.

I think an interesting question is if Israel had been Christian and the country was created to have one part of Jerusalem Christian, would we have seen the same response? Britain after all was the controlling power until many of those countries in the area were given freedom.

At the time I think Arab countries thought Jews could be hit without much fight back or other countries getting involved. Which kind of happened in 1948, none of the bigger countries really came out to defend Israel (maybe they sent weapons, but no direct involvement). These days USA themselves would step in and stop it. I think if it were a Christian country, they might fear other countries involvement when trying to attack.

It’s strange. Jews have general been persecuted over thousands of years forced to flee from country to country. While Christians and Muslims have made up most of the religious wars, often in the name of trying to convert others. Israel is their last stand, straw. Which is probably why they are so paranoid about security and retaliate tenfold. The world has forced them to be like this. And probably shouldn’t have dumped it at the Middle East’s doorstep.

I blame Yasser Arafat and his PLO. They should have taken the deals that were offered to them by various israeli PMs. If you lose mutiple wars, you don't get the luxury of choosing what you get to keep.

 

[Bhaijaan]

There will be war.

..and the war will decide who gets to hold on to what lands.

Decades of no major world level, borders altering wars made people think the status quo of nation states maintaining international borders will go on unchcked. But you are all in for a major reality check. There is no santity to modern day international borders and the era of conquests, redrawing of the international borders is upon us once again.

Why would Israel agree to shrink when it is in a position to possibly expand?

Pakistan is also now in a position to expand its borders and shouldn';t settle for anything elss when it has India, Afghanistan pushed into a corner through its military might.

 

[rpant_gabba]

Pakistan shows solidarity due to muslim factor. But, pakistanis are not the one that will decide the outcome.

but they will send their army to kill Palestinians at the bidding of the arabs

Point is you made a stupid and ill informed post grouping palestinians with arabs and now trying to divert towards pakistanis.

Point is arabs could have accepted built a great palestine surrounding Israel abnd completely frozen them out. Instead they started a war which screwed they palestinians and. then the cowardly arabs abandoned them

Next time maybe educate yourself before posting

irony died a thousand deaths

 

[Major]

but they will send their army to kill Palestinians at the bidding of the arabs

Point is arabs could have accepted built a great palestine surrounding Israel abnd completely frozen them out. Instead they started a war which screwed they palestinians and. then the cowardly arabs abandoned them

irony died a thousand deaths

Will repeat it for you aswelll that maybe educate yourself before making comments.

Any nation before choosing an enemy does posturing towards that nation. Pakistan doesnt recognize Israel as a country but has never done any posturing towards them nor has missile ranges that covers israel.

Those are only for india for one day inshallah to blow it up.

 

[rpant_gabba]

Will repeat it for you aswelll that maybe educate yourself before making comments.

Any nation before choosing an enemy does posturing towards that nation. Pakistan doesnt recognize Israel as a country but has never done any posturing towards them nor has missile ranges that covers israel.

Those are only for india for one day inshallah to blow it up.

So you got nothing. Thanks for confirming

 

[Major]

So you got nothing. Thanks for confirming

When u donot know what posturing is and how it gives indications towards foreign policy, than there is alot for you to learn

 

[rpant_gabba]

When u donot know what posturing is and how it gives indications towards foreign policy, than there is alot for you to learn

Anyone who is not an idiot knows about Pak posturing about palestine

They sold themselves to Jordan and Israel to slaughter Palestinians

Gladly colluded with Israel for cash from US

 

[RexRex]

Anyone who is not an idiot knows about Pak posturing about palestine

They sold themselves to Jordan and Israel to slaughter Palestinians

Gladly colluded with Israel for cash from US

It's fair to say @Major made a goose of himself .. yet again. He learned his history from pakistan studies classes so I don't blame him.

 

[Major]

Indians without knowledge about palestinian and arab nationalism now highfiving each other like idiots

 

[RexRex]

Most pakistanis don't even know about the 70 year history of their own country, many of them have now admitted they were fooled by their establishment. Yet here they pretend to know about Palestine and Arabs. Like this chap above ^. So cute.

 

[Pakpak]

In hindsight Palestinians would have been better off if the 1948 Arab-Israeli war never happened. You could argue that Israel shouldn’t have been given the land. But with so many Arab countries, and still half of Jerusalem, I think in theory Arabs could have lived side by side in peace with an Israeli independent state. Even the land Israel was given, about 50% of it was desert. Let alone the fact it was a tiny patch of land.

The UN overwhelming voted in favour of a creation of Israel. I think they made the wrong decision. If the war in 1948 had succeeded there would be no Israel who would have been wiped out. Nor there would have been Palestine, given Arab countries particularly Jordan went with the motive to expand territory. And we can see Israel wining basically understandably created a monster from a people that now had survived an elimination a second time after the holocaust. Neither outcome was a great one whoever won the war.

I’ve said a lot of the blame is on that UN vote. They made the wrong decision. But after it was made, I think it was better to respect that decision.

This is going to be a long post. All of this is from various analysis, podcasts, journalists, videos, interviews from Israeli officials, from the Israeli Prime Minister, Israeli think tanks, and everything I have been reading online for months.

Going from Netanyahu's previous videos online, where he's openly bragging that the US is under his control, the plan for Israel is to somehow engineer the US's withdrawal from the Middle East while decimating every single power around its neighborhood Right now, the only thing stopping Israel from colonising its neighbours is the US. Israel cannot attack Egypt, nor can it attack Jordan, nor it can attack Saudi Arabia or Turkey because of the US. The US, despite being a total slave to Israel, has its limits. To everyone with double digits IQ it was obvious the US had nothing to gain with Iran war and they would end up losing all their military power/bases around Iran built carefully since the 70s. If this was all obvious to anyone semi literate then this would be obvious to the Israelis too.

However, if the US... Somehow, withdrew from the Middle East, then that would be a big problem for every country in the Middle East barring the US. The reason for this is that various Arab countries in the Middle East have had their bases, well, the American bases in their countries, most of them, especially in Kuwait, Bahrain, in the UAE, and even Saudi Arabia, moderately damaged, extremely damaged, or outright destroyed. And with no US bases, US presence in the Middle East, this would only mean that the US's power is very degraded in terms of its projection and its image as a superpower. And if the US would be unwilling to protect its Arab neighbors, then no one can, as we've seen the Europeans are completely gutless, which would enable the Israelis to go further and further. Despite Trump's extraordinary slavery to Israel, at times with moderate success, he has managed to blunt the atrocities, as pathetic as this sounds, I know. The goal of Israel is first to take over Lebanon, or half of Lebanon, and cause a severe humanitarian crisis, which results in Muslims in Lebanon being expelled. This blueprint is how their country came into existence and how they've annexed territory over and over and over again and again. And for them, this works. Secondly, would then to confrontTurkey with no US and NATO, which is why we keep hearing about this. The Israelis can provoke Turkey, and while, yes, Turkey is a huge military power, but in any conflict with Israel, Turkey would not be backed by the US. And almost the entirety of the Turkish air force is American. And we know it cannot be trusted. This does not mean... Israelis invading Turkey, it wouldn't survive that. This means Israelis then going into Syria and annexing more land. Ben Gvir and Smotrich already openly brag about this. This can be seen in recent images of greater Israel on the sleeves of Israeli armed forces operating in Lebanon and Gaza. This is why recently you have seen the ante against Turkey speed up.

The only country right now stopping Israel from doing more land grabbing in Syria on a huge scale is largely Turkey, which has vague security guarantees with the Syrian government. Also to add, this is Israel's long-term plan. The country is filled with religious fervor, and the eventual goal is the destruction of Al-Aqsa Mosque. This is not a conspiracy. This is being discussed actively in the Israeli media. Before the Iran war, we had Samotrich and Ben-Gvir hinting, hey, what would happen if by mistake the mosque is destroyed because of an Iranian missile? And many said that this is the kind of excuse that Israelis would need. Someone also said when they banned people from worshipping they were rigging the mosque with explosives. Which is the eventual goal.

Israel's long term plan is annex land, expand and increase their landmass by magnitudes (Netanyahu repeated this word for word last week or so), with larger land they can project power with more force, grab Gaza's gas fields, annex South Lebanon, annex Syrian land and 'make ourselves a super power' - Netanyahu's words). With no US in the Middle East and with Israeli puppets already in place (UAE, Jordan) there would be noone left to really challenge them. With how much the US is compromised by Zionists the US support via aid, cash, weapons would continue but no actual US presence in the Middle East.

Again, everything I have said is openly repeated by Israeli ministers. There are videos of Netanyahu and other Israelis online proudly saying 'to suck the US dry and then to dump it'.

Right now:

Kuwait and Bahrain- US bases are destroyed at worst and totally non-operational at best.
UAE- is intensifying its alliance with Israel, their ministers are all over Twitter praising the IDF for murdering Lebanese
Syria- is losing more villages day by day
Iran- will recover but is in no real position to damage Israel, Syria is gone and Hezbollah is in life and death right now. Their main deterrence has to be getting nukes. Despite this Iran has shown it will not lie down and this has been a success for them long term if they can monitize the Hormuz
the US: all their power has taken a huge hit in the Middle East to the point they can't bring any naval power near Iranian coasts
Saudi Arabia- toothless as always and is on par with rag tag miliatis in terms of actual military deterrence
Israel: has now occupied more than half of Gaza, no Gazan city is left standing, West Bank is getting annexed day by day and it's pushing up in Lebanon (taking huge losses albeit), is slowly occupying more and more Syrian land and will expand it's landmass by the end of this

Sorry for long essay.

 

[sweep_shot]

Chalo jee you’re playing Jewrandar character and Dhurandar character being played by Bhaijaan on this same forum now.

All the best to you two secret agents

I think Gazza got hacked.

Mods should take a look.

@The Bald Eagle @Cricket Warrior

 

[sweep_shot]

Indians without knowledge about palestinian and arab nationalism now highfiving each other like idiots

LOL. Yup.

They have no knowledge about the nature of this conflict nor they have any stake.

They end up looking like idiots.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Why send them back there ? In 100 years, everybody in Europe will be saying As-salamu alaykum.

they need to return to help you stop this from happening! Zionist European Jews and Rex will save Christian Europe or turn it into a land of statues of animals .


It’s continuous war against these squatters , geographically and demographically it’s a temporary little outpost . Pray for the

 

[Champ_Pal]

There are 57 official islamic countries. Let the Jews have their tiny strip of land. There is something seriously wrong with muslims who obsess over this issue when you look at this map.


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Nope. These Islamic nations would rather sacrifice Palestinians if it means eliminating the Jewish state.

They can’t even allow the Jews have a tiny strip of land. How dare they have that land where their ancestors lived for over 2500 years.

 

[Champ_Pal]

Most pakistanis don't even know about the 70 year history of their own country, many of them have now admitted they were fooled by their establishment. Yet here they pretend to know about Palestine and Arabs. Like this chap above ^. So cute.

I still don’t understand the crying about Palestine state. They fought wars over it. They lost all the wars in spite of Arab nations joining their forces.
Losing war = Losing territory. This is exactly how caliphate spread. But they celebrate it by Jumping up and down on their bed even if it meant breaking it. But the moment, they are on the losing side, they cry genocide and occupiers bla bla bla.

 

[sweep_shot]

they need to return to help you stop this from happening! Zionist European Jews and Rex will save Christian Europe or turn it into a land of statues of animals .


It’s continuous war against these squatters , geographically and demographically it’s a temporary little outpost . Pray for the

Jews have been expelled by many different empires/countries (including many Christian ones).

Here is a history of jewish expulsions up to 1910's.

========================================

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expulsions_and_exoduses_of_Jews.

Some examples of Jewish expulsions and exiles​

Assyrian captivity (8th century BCE)​

• 733/732 BCE– Tiglath-Pileser III conquers northern Israel
  • Tribes (Reuben, Gad, Manasseh, Naphtali) deported to Assyria
• 722 BCE– Sargon II captures Samaria
  • Tens of thousands deported
  • Many flee to Judah; others remain and later form the Samaritans

---

Babylonian captivity (6th century BCE)​

• 597 BCE– Nebuchadnezzar II besieges Jerusalem
  • King Jeconiah, elites, and craftsmen deported
• 587/586 BCE– Jerusalem destroyed
  • Solomon's Temple burned
  • Majority of elite population exiled to Babylon
• 537 BCE – Cyrus the Great allows Jews to return

---

Roman-era expulsions and dispersal (1–500 CE)​

Early Roman actions​

• 139 BCE – Jews expelled from Rome
• 19 CE – Expulsion under Tiberius
• 41–53 CE – Expulsion under Claudius

Major revolts and consequences​

• 73 CE– After the First Jewish–Roman War
  • Massive death, enslavement, and displacement
• 115–117 CE– Diaspora Revolt
  • Jews expelled or killed in multiple regions
• 132–136 CE– Bar Kokhba revolt
  • Widespread destruction, enslavement
  • Jews banned from Jerusalem

Other expulsions​

• 38 CE – Expulsion from Alexandria
• 415 CE – Expulsion from Alexandria under Cyril of Alexandria
• 418 CE – Expulsion from Minorca

---

Late antiquity & early Islamic period (600–1000)​

• 612 CE – Forced conversion or expulsion under Visigothic king Sisebut
• 629 CE – Jews of Galilee massacred or expelled
• 7th century– Expulsions of Jewish tribes in Arabia under Muhammad
  • Includes Banu Qaynuqa, Banu Nadir; destruction of Khaybar

---

Medieval expulsions (1000–1500)​

Early medieval​

• 1012 – Expulsion from Mainz
• 1095–1200s– Crusades
  • Destruction of many Jewish communities

Western Europe (frequent expulsions)​

France​

• Multiple expulsions (1182, 1254, 1306, 1322, 1394)
• Often tied to confiscation of wealth

England​

• 1290 – Edict of Expulsion by Edward I of England

Central Europe​

• Expulsions across Germany, Austria, Hungary

---

Spain & Iberia​

• 1492– Alhambra Decree
  • Issued by Ferdinand II of Aragon and Isabella I of Castile
  • ~200,000 expelled
• 1496 – Expulsion from Portugal

---

Early modern expulsions (1500–1700)​

• Expulsions across Italy, Germany, and Central Europe
• 1569 & 1593 – Expulsions from Papal States under Pope Pius V and Pope Clement VIII
• 1614 – Fettmilch Uprising → Jews expelled
• 1679–1680 – Mawza Exile

---

Early migrations to the Americas​

• 1654 – Jews flee Brazil to New Amsterdam (early North America settlement)

---

18th–19th century restrictions & migrations​

• 1791 – Catherine the Great creates Pale of Settlement
  • Restricts where Jews can live in the Russian Empire
• 1862 – Ulysses S. Grant expels Jews (later revoked)
• 1880–1910s– Pogroms in Russian Empire
  • ~2.5 million Jews emigrate (many to the U.S.)

 

[IMMY69]

Nope. These Islamic nations would rather sacrifice Palestinians if it means eliminating the Jewish state.

They can’t even allow the Jews have a tiny strip of land. How dare they have that land where their ancestors lived for over 2500 years.

But the Jews, Christians and Muslims lived happily together for centuries until the Balfour Agreement...

 

[BouncerGuy]

STAY ON TOPIC GUYS

 

[Champ_Pal]

But the Jews, Christians and Muslims lived happily together for centuries until the Balfour Agreement...

Israel has tons of Muslims living in its territory. Nothing has changed except the land got divided. Hamas is not ready to accept the Jewish state. They are lucky that they even have Westbank and Gaza after losing the wars badly.

 

[HalBass9]

I still don’t understand the crying about Palestine state. They fought wars over it. They lost all the wars in spite of Arab nations joining their forces.
Losing war = Losing territory. This is exactly how caliphate spread. But they celebrate it by Jumping up and down on their bed even if it meant breaking it. But the moment, they are on the losing side, they cry genocide and occupiers bla bla bla.

Because it is a genocide.

 

[IMMY69]

Israel has tons of Muslims living in its territory. Nothing has changed except the land got divided. Hamas is not ready to accept the Jewish state. They are lucky that they even have Westbank and Gaza after losing the wars badly.

You will no doubt point to some Israeli/western propaganda showing the contrary but it is a fact that Muslims and Christians are living in an apartheid state... Christian's are literally spat upon during their processions in Jerusalem...

If you think they have equal rights then more fool you.

Hamas themselves are a creation of Israel...

I think a two state solution could work but you have to remove all the dual citizens that flood in from the states and Europe... you also have to remove the settlers in the west bank

 

[Rajdeep]

Why send them back there ? In 100 years, everybody in Europe will be saying As-salamu alaykum.

He wants Muslims to re conquer the land and send all Europeans back to Europe.

He is saying that sitting in United Kingdom as a muslim.

If and when a Brit says the same, like Tommy Robinson, he gets classified as a Raycist.

If only hypocrisy has a face.

 

[Champ_Pal]

You will no doubt point to some Israeli/western propaganda showing the contrary but it is a fact that Muslims and Christians are living in an apartheid state... Christian's are literally spat upon during their processions in Jerusalem...

If you think they have equal rights then more fool you.

Hamas themselves are a creation of Israel...

I think a two state solution could work but you have to remove all the dual citizens that flood in from the states and Europe... you also have to remove the settlers in the west bank

To save lives and for the future of the children of both Israel and Palestine, both have to accept the ground realities.

Digging up old wounds will further the misery.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

This is going to be a long post. All of this is from various analysis, podcasts, journalists, videos, interviews from Israeli officials, from the Israeli Prime Minister, Israeli think tanks, and everything I have been reading online for months.

Going from Netanyahu's previous videos online, where he's openly bragging that the US is under his control, the plan for Israel is to somehow engineer the US's withdrawal from the Middle East while decimating every single power around its neighborhood Right now, the only thing stopping Israel from colonising its neighbours is the US. Israel cannot attack Egypt, nor can it attack Jordan, nor it can attack Saudi Arabia or Turkey because of the US. The US, despite being a total slave to Israel, has its limits. To everyone with double digits IQ it was obvious the US had nothing to gain with Iran war and they would end up losing all their military power/bases around Iran built carefully since the 70s. If this was all obvious to anyone semi literate then this would be obvious to the Israelis too.

However, if the US... Somehow, withdrew from the Middle East, then that would be a big problem for every country in the Middle East barring the US. The reason for this is that various Arab countries in the Middle East have had their bases, well, the American bases in their countries, most of them, especially in Kuwait, Bahrain, in the UAE, and even Saudi Arabia, moderately damaged, extremely damaged, or outright destroyed. And with no US bases, US presence in the Middle East, this would only mean that the US's power is very degraded in terms of its projection and its image as a superpower. And if the US would be unwilling to protect its Arab neighbors, then no one can, as we've seen the Europeans are completely gutless, which would enable the Israelis to go further and further. Despite Trump's extraordinary slavery to Israel, at times with moderate success, he has managed to blunt the atrocities, as pathetic as this sounds, I know. The goal of Israel is first to take over Lebanon, or half of Lebanon, and cause a severe humanitarian crisis, which results in Muslims in Lebanon being expelled. This blueprint is how their country came into existence and how they've annexed territory over and over and over again and again. And for them, this works. Secondly, would then to confrontTurkey with no US and NATO, which is why we keep hearing about this. The Israelis can provoke Turkey, and while, yes, Turkey is a huge military power, but in any conflict with Israel, Turkey would not be backed by the US. And almost the entirety of the Turkish air force is American. And we know it cannot be trusted. This does not mean... Israelis invading Turkey, it wouldn't survive that. This means Israelis then going into Syria and annexing more land. Ben Gvir and Smotrich already openly brag about this. This can be seen in recent images of greater Israel on the sleeves of Israeli armed forces operating in Lebanon and Gaza. This is why recently you have seen the ante against Turkey speed up.

The only country right now stopping Israel from doing more land grabbing in Syria on a huge scale is largely Turkey, which has vague security guarantees with the Syrian government. Also to add, this is Israel's long-term plan. The country is filled with religious fervor, and the eventual goal is the destruction of Al-Aqsa Mosque. This is not a conspiracy. This is being discussed actively in the Israeli media. Before the Iran war, we had Samotrich and Ben-Gvir hinting, hey, what would happen if by mistake the mosque is destroyed because of an Iranian missile? And many said that this is the kind of excuse that Israelis would need. Someone also said when they banned people from worshipping they were rigging the mosque with explosives. Which is the eventual goal.

Israel's long term plan is annex land, expand and increase their landmass by magnitudes (Netanyahu repeated this word for word last week or so), with larger land they can project power with more force, grab Gaza's gas fields, annex South Lebanon, annex Syrian land and 'make ourselves a super power' - Netanyahu's words). With no US in the Middle East and with Israeli puppets already in place (UAE, Jordan) there would be noone left to really challenge them. With how much the US is compromised by Zionists the US support via aid, cash, weapons would continue but no actual US presence in the Middle East.

Again, everything I have said is openly repeated by Israeli ministers. There are videos of Netanyahu and other Israelis online proudly saying 'to suck the US dry and then to dump it'.

Right now:

Kuwait and Bahrain- US bases are destroyed at worst and totally non-operational at best.
UAE- is intensifying its alliance with Israel, their ministers are all over Twitter praising the IDF for murdering Lebanese
Syria- is losing more villages day by day
Iran- will recover but is in no real position to damage Israel, Syria is gone and Hezbollah is in life and death right now. Their main deterrence has to be getting nukes. Despite this Iran has shown it will not lie down and this has been a success for them long term if they can monitize the Hormuz
the US: all their power has taken a huge hit in the Middle East to the point they can't bring any naval power near Iranian coasts
Saudi Arabia- toothless as always and is on par with rag tag miliatis in terms of actual military deterrence
Israel: has now occupied more than half of Gaza, no Gazan city is left standing, West Bank is getting annexed day by day and it's pushing up in Lebanon (taking huge losses albeit), is slowly occupying more and more Syrian land and will expand it's landmass by the end of this

Sorry for long essay.

What do you think of this talk of a military pact between Saudi/Turkiye/Pakistan as a means to deter the israelis? It does seem that if nothing else, the Arabs reliance on the US for protection has got exposed as a lame duck so would be understandable if SA was attempting to diversify defence plans.

 

[IMMY69]

To save lives and for the future of the children of both Israel and Palestine, both have to accept the ground realities.

Digging up old wounds will further the misery.

But for that to happen you have to prevent the expansion of Israel and Israel actually has to accept Palestine as a country with proper boarders...

None of this is going to happen is you understand what Israel's goals are...

 

[Champ_Pal]

But for that to happen you have to prevent the expansion of Israel and Israel actually has to accept Palestine as a country with proper boarders...

None of this is going to happen is you understand what Israel's goals are...

Exactly. I fully support the 2 nation theory. Both deserve their own homeland.

 

[HalBass9]

Exactly. I fully support the 2 nation theory. Both deserve their own homeland.

No! You don’t when you’re making excuses for ethnic cleansing and genocide.

 

[Markhor]

Anyone who is not an idiot knows about Pak posturing about palestine

They sold themselves to Jordan and Israel to slaughter Palestinians

Gladly colluded with Israel for cash from US

Black September needs placing in its proper context as its one of the occasions where the Palestinians overreached.

The PLO became a state within a state in Jordan with some elements wanting to overthrow the Hashemite monarchy. There was even an assassination attempt against King Hussain (two decades earlier a Palestinian assassinated King Abdullah I).

Another major issue was continued fedayeen activity would invite harsh Israeli reprisals in Jordan, and attracted international condemnation as when the PFLP hijacked four airliners and blew them up weeks prior to the crackdown.

I'm not sure how much more a sovereign nation could tolerate, so this Black September talking point against Pakistan isn't the gotcha people make out.

 

[rpant_gabba]

Black September needs placing in its proper context as its one of the occasions where the Palestinians overreached.

The PLO became a state within a state in Jordan with some elements wanting to overthrow the Hashemite monarchy. There was even an assassination attempt against King Hussain (two decades earlier a Palestinian assassinated King Abdullah I).

Another major issue was continued fedayeen activity would invite harsh Israeli reprisals in Jordan, and attracted international condemnation as when the PFLP hijacked four airliners and blew them up weeks prior to the crackdown.

I'm not sure how much more a sovereign nation could tolerate, so this Black September talking point against Pakistan isn't the gotcha people make out.

so Palestinians who where going to to enslaved by the jordanians as part of greater/trans jordan and dropped to like toilet paper by the arabs when thing got difficult should only fight against the yahoodis and not the arbs who created a (big) part of the problem.

Got it.

If its not a gotcha, then Paks should own it.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Exactly. I fully support the 2 nation theory. Both deserve their own homeland.

Unless you agree that israel should give back land grabbed after 1967 then you support Greater israel.

 

[Markhor]

so Palestinians who where going to to enslaved by the jordanians as part of greater/trans jordan and dropped to like toilet paper by the arabs when thing got difficult should only fight against the yahoodis and not the arbs who created a (big) part of the problem.

Got it.

If its not a gotcha, then Paks should own it.

Curious leap you've made. Firstly Black September occurred three years after Jordan lost the West Bank and control over its Palestinian inhabitants, and it was triggered not by an uprising against Jordanian suppression of Palestinian nationalism but the PLO's attempt at wholesale state takeover.

The Palestinians having a just cause doesn't grant them the right to destabilise other countries, assassinate or plot to assassinate their leaders, or hijack international aircraft and take hostages on board.

Pakistan's marginal role in Black September is a low effort gotcha attempt by Indians who seem to forget the Indian Gov siding with the ethnofascist Sinhalese SL Gov by against their Tamil brethren in the late 80s.

 

[rpant_gabba]

Curious leap you've made.

Not really. jordanians were in bed with zionists/brits to gobble up what was not Israel and create greater/trans jordan territory at the end of WW2

jordan changed its mind and decided join the rest of the arabs in attacking israel

When arabs failed, the palestinians ended up paying the price

Firstly Black September occurred three years after Jordan lost the West Bank and control over its Palestinian inhabitants, and it was triggered not by an uprising against Jordanian suppression of Palestinian nationalism but the PLO's attempt at wholesale state takeover.

OK

The Palestinians having a just cause doesn't grant them the right to destabilise other countries, assassinate or plot to assassinate their leaders, or hijack international aircraft and take hostages on board.

and you and paks should be one to judge what is halal beocs? Palestinians might claim it all part of their just struggle

Pakistan's marginal role in Black September is a low effort gotcha attempt

As I said before, than Paks should proudly acknoledge, that under orders from their Arab masters, they murdered palestinians

by Indians who seem to forget the Indian Gov siding with the ethnofascist Sinhalese SL Gov by against their Tamil brethren in the late 80s.

Ethnicity vs religion vs nationality interesting topic

Never had the chance to thank SL Tamils to help India move on from Nehru dynasty atleast partially

 

[Champ_Pal]

Unless you agree that israel should give back land grabbed after 1967 then you support Greater israel.

Land grab?
The land was lost in war. You lose war you started, you lose the land over which the war was fought.
Palestinians should accept Gaza and West Bank as their land and move on. If they want their land back, they should fight for it. They obviously will get destroyed.
For the sake of the future generations, they should accept the current status quo and overthrow Hamas government and set up a secular government which works hand in hand with Israel and west for everlasting peace.
Expecting Israel to give the land back is stupid. It was won by Israel fair and square. Accept and move on.

 

[Markhor]

Not really. jordanians were in bed with zionists/brits to gobble up what was not Israel and create greater/trans jordan territory at the end of WW2

jordan changed its mind and decided join the rest of the arabs in attacking israel

When arabs failed, the palestinians ended up paying the price

I'm not disputing that history but it bears no connection with the events of Black September.

and you and paks should be one to judge what is halal beocs? Palestinians might claim it all part of their just struggle

If you believe killing or attempting to kill a nation's leader, or hijacking international aircraft is a legitimate course of action for an insurgent group then I hope you allow the same latitude for the Kashmiris, Naxalites and so on.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Land grab?
The land was lost in war. You lose war you started, you lose the land over which the war was fought.
Palestinians should accept Gaza and West Bank as their land and move on. If they want their land back, they should fight for it. They obviously will get destroyed.
For the sake of the future generations, they should accept the current status quo and overthrow Hamas government and set up a secular government which works hand in hand with Israel and west for everlasting peace.
Expecting Israel to give the land back is stupid. It was won by Israel fair and square. Accept and move on.

So you do support greater israel. You also suggest that land lost in war belongs to the victor. Fine, but I was looking for a solution that would give Jewish people the long term homes they had in the centuries before the creation of israel.

Of course if they want to hang onto land they won in wars and continue to expand there can't be much argument. Until they lose a war which will be the end of them.