AB de Villiers' performance in World Cups

[Ab Fan]

Let us analyse ABDV's overall performance in World Cups:-

Firstly, stats:-

Matches:- 23
Runs:- 1207
Avg:- 63.5
SR:- 117.29
100s:- 4

Excluding minnows:-

Matches:- 15
Runs:- 848
Avg:- 77.09
SR:- 118.6
100s:- 3

Excluding (minnows+ WI):-

Matches:- 12
Runs:- 433
Avg:- 43.3
SR:- 104.58
H.S- 92(70) vs Australia, 2007

<I>Analysing World Cup one-by-one:-</I>

<B>World Cup 2007( Age: 22):-</B>

Performance worth mentioning:-

1) Vs Australia:- 92(70) vs Australia

Bowling attack:- McGrath, Bracken, Tait, Hogg, Watson

2) Vs WI:- 146(130) vs WI in WI in winning cause

Bowling attack was largely weaker but that lineup was a solid one for home conditions:- Gayle, Sarwan, Chanderpaul, Lara, Smith, Bravo, Pollard.

Failure:- WC 2007 semis vs Australia( but pretty much even the greatest men on the earth would fail against them, particularly when seniors, Smith and Kallis are already out at 2 and 5 and you are just 22).

<B>Performance in WC 2011:-</B>

1) Vs India:- 52(39)

52(39) while chasing 296. Gave an aggressive move to the game after Amla and Kallis set the platform although they got stuck with the scoring rate pressure as well.

2) Vs WI :- 107*(105) while chasing 228

107*(105) while chasing coming to bat at 20-2 with Amla and Kallis already gone. If not for this inning, SA would have lost this match as they are poor in chasing and after AB, there wasn't any established batsmen. Faf was a newbie.

<B>Performance in WC 2015:-</B>

1) vs WI:- 162(66)

Minnow team true, but easily one of the most memorable knock and will be remembered for years.

2) Vs Pak:- 79(61)

Brilliant inning and yes, choked but these are those sort of innings where you get a feeling that team might win but they eventually end up losing. Quite similar to what we get to see in a test match in 4th inning many times when one partnership comes up but it just takes 1 ball to get the job done.

3) Vs NZ:- 65*(45)

Bowling attack:- Boult, Southee, Henry, Anderson

When rain came, he was batting at 58*(37) but after rain when the match begin, he couldn't face enough deliveries and tbh, he didnt need too because Miller did his part with the bat.

So, while he doesn't have a hundred against a top team in winning cause, he has been highly consistent in World Cups and outside of Klusenar, has been SA's best batsmen as far as WC is concerned.

So, if asked, how do you rate ABDV's performance in World Cups:-

Outstanding
Excellent
Good
Average
Poor

Discuss!

 

[big_gamer007]

1. Sachin
2. Viv
3. Kohli (His career is not over so you can remove him from this list for now)
4. AB
5. Ponting
6. Lara

That is how the top 6 ODI batsman look till now. All these selective stats WC matches, WC knockout matches, WC knockout matches with Best team, WC knockout matches with best team playing their best bowler, WC knockout matches with best team playing their best bowlers in their peak years etc etc are just finding a needle in the haystack.

AB was an outstanding athlete (not just a player) and the debate ends there.

 

[Ab Fan]

1. Sachin
2. Viv
3. Kohli (His career is not over so you can remove him from this list for now)
4. AB
5. Ponting
6. Lara

That is how the top 6 ODI batsman look till now. All these selective stats WC matches, WC knockout matches, WC knockout matches with Best team, WC knockout matches with best team playing their best bowler, WC knockout matches with best team playing their best bowlers in their peak years etc etc are just finding a needle in the haystack.

AB was an outstanding athlete (not just a player) and the debate ends there.

Nicely put up. It is mostly a Pakistani propoganda where you micro-analyze every WC inning.

Inzamam at 22, when opposition would least care about him, played a fantastic cameo and won them a WC semi final. But the way that inning is over-hyped and because of that inning, posters put Inzy from a very good ODI batsmen to top 10 ODI batsmen of all-time is quite absurd.

I agree with your list, although I will exchange AB with Ponting and get in Dhoni and Bevan ahead of Lara. But then everyone has their own flavour. So, nothing to debate on it.

 

[MP2011]

Dhoni hasn't done much of note in WCs except of THAT innings.

 

[Ab Fan]

Dhoni hasn't done much of note in WCs except of THAT innings.

Dhoni is superior because he has done better than Inzy in bilaterals and he did it being the captain of his team, leading the team to WC win and was also an excellent wicket-keeper batsmen.

Dhoni factor solves your many problems but you need to make sure you are having a pre-2015 Dhoni with you and not the old one.

 

[the_outsider]

If we're only looking at clutch WC performances, Gambhir should at least get a mention.

Sure he isn't in the league of Viv, Ponting, etc but in terms of impact and contribution to title wins he is right up there.

 

[MP2011]

I was not really comparing Dhoni with Inzi, just pointing out his less than flattering record in WCs.

 

[Pakhs]

Dhoni is superior because he has done better than Inzy in bilaterals and he did it being the captain of his team, leading the team to WC win and was also an excellent wicket-keeper batsmen.

Dhoni factor solves your many problems but you need to make sure you are having a pre-2015 Dhoni with you and not the old one.

Having good WC players are different then having player who play better in bilateral. you dont have to be the player with best stats etc to be the most effective WC player and win your team the whole tournament. Dhoni was a great player and also has acceptable performance in WCs (not counting captaincy here which his been great at) but Inzi has those two mega performances in the 92 WC which will put him ahead of the likes of AB Sachin and Dhoni as a better WC player. Gilchrist and Glen Mcgrath were the best in my opinion though!! the simple reason why AUS won 3 in a row and didnt waste that all time great team. India was the best team in the last WC but they didnt have those gun WC players similarly PAK in the 90s were the best team but only won once as they too didnt have those AUS gun WC players. So it actually important to have gun WC players if you want to win max amount of tournaments while you have a good team.

 

[Ab Fan]

I was not really comparing Dhoni with Inzi, just pointing out his less than flattering record in WCs.

I agree with you. I see posters comparing Dhoni's performance in WC to AB's and they give one example:-

Dhoni performance in WC 2011 final vs ABDV CT 2013 semis performance. Leaves out all other runs AB scored in WCs and failures Dhoni had in WC and bring the CT 13 performance.

 

[MP2011]

but Inzi has those two mega performances in the 92 WC which will put him ahead of the likes of AB Sachin and Dhoni as a better WC player.

No way!

 

[Pakhs]

No way!

if its simply about WC players then yes way!!

 

[Pakhs]

If not for Inzi Pak would have wasted all that talent they had in the 90s and not even have won one ICC tournament.

 

[Ab Fan]

Having good WC players are different then having player who play better in bilateral. you dont have to be the player with best stats etc to be the most effective WC player and win your team the whole tournament. Dhoni was a great player and also has acceptable performance in WCs (not counting captaincy here which his been great at) but <B>Inzi has those two mega performances in the 92 WC which will put him ahead of the likes of AB Sachin and Dhoni as a better WC player</B>. Gilchrist and Glen Mcgrath were the best in my opinion though!! the simple reason why AUS won 3 in a row and didnt waste that all time great team. India was the best team in the last WC but they didnt have those gun WC players similarly PAK in the 90s were the best team but only won once as they too didnt have those AUS gun WC players. So it actually important to have gun WC players if you want to win max amount of tournaments while you have a good team.

Hardly those two were mega performance. The one in final was a complete all-round show from Wasim, whom I consider as GOAT ODI bowler. Inzy had a slight cameo in first inning. That's it.

The one in semis was an excellent performance but he was a youngster and someone whom opposition would care least. His overall contributions to that World Cup win was minimal. In contrast, Dhoni's performance came in World Cup final when he was already one of the greatest batsmen and played what was an iconic inning on the biggest stage. His contributions as a man-manager, tactician and wicket-keeper also adds to it.

As for AB, he has had consistent run in World Cups. At 22, he smashed McGrath for three consecutive boundaries and played a brilliant inning against that ATG attack. But it didnt ended there for him. He kept on having consistent run in the other WCs to follow. Inzy, on other hand, after that inning in WC semis 92, became an established member in the team but after becoming the integral part of the team, he continuously failed in all other World Cups and has a very poor WC average.

 

[Ab Fan]

If not for Inzi Pak would have wasted all that talent they had in the 90s and not even have won one ICC tournament.

They eventually did wasted a lot of talent. That team was phenomenal absolutely. Batsmen like Inzamam, Anwar with Yousuf establishing further and bowlers like Wasim, Waqar, Akhtar, Saqlain and Razzaq/Afridi as an all-rounder as well. That team underachieved highly.

 

[MP2011]

If not for Aus's ATG team and SA's choking tendencies in general, AB would have had at least 2 WCs by now.

 

[Ab Fan]

Also, not hyping MSD. He did nothing outside that WC 2011 final inning.

 

[Pakhs]

Hardly those two were mega performance. The one in final was a complete all-round show from Wasim, whom I consider as GOAT ODI bowler. Inzy had a slight cameo in first inning. That's it.

The one in semis was an excellent performance but he was a youngster and someone whom opposition would care least. His overall contributions to that World Cup win was minimal. In contrast, Dhoni's performance came in World Cup final when he was already one of the greatest batsmen and played what was an iconic inning on the biggest stage. His contributions as a man-manager, tactician and wicket-keeper also adds to it.

As for AB, he has had consistent run in World Cups. At 22, he smashed McGrath for three consecutive boundaries and played a brilliant inning against that ATG attack. But it didnt ended there for him. He kept on having consistent run in the other WCs to follow. Inzy, on other hand, after that inning in WC semis 92, became an established member in the team but after becoming the integral part of the team, he continuously failed in all other World Cups and has a very poor WC average.

I think you missed the point for me the definition of a gun WC player is someone who does enough in crunch moments to really make the difference in winning or losing knockout matches. And for me thats what Inzi did and other players didnt manage. Dhoni played a good innings but it was in no way iconic its very obvious Ghambir innings that day was better and more decisive, he only got out once the game was up.

However regarding dhoni only his captaincy skills is another matter however i have excluded that from this conversation as its a completely different topic all together.

 

[Pakhs]

They eventually did wasted a lot of talent. That team was phenomenal absolutely. Batsmen like Inzamam, Anwar with Yousuf establishing further and bowlers like Wasim, Waqar, Akhtar, Saqlain and Razzaq/Afridi as an all-rounder as well. That team underachieved highly.

This proves my point how important those innings were from Inzi it doesn't matter whether he was considered a good player or not.

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

I think you missed the point for me the definition of a gun WC player is someone who does enough in crunch moments to really make the difference in winning or losing knockout matches. And for me thats what Inzi did and other players didnt manage. Dhoni played a good innings but it was in no way iconic its very obvious Ghambir innings that day was better and more decisive, he only got out once the game was up.

However regarding dhoni only his captaincy skills is another matter however i have excluded that from this conversation as its a completely different topic all together.

Man you are surely joking if you say that msd innings wasn't iconic.
Dhoni's innings was as iconic as it gets, yeah Gambhirs was even better but it takes nothing away from dhoni.
Dhoni's innings in final was better than inzi's
92 innings

 

[BunnyRabbit]

AB was tactically quite poor. He was always holding himself back and even sent in Rossou ahead of him at no. 4 when rain was expected to come any time during the semi final. His bowling changes were not good enough. Plus SA choked in last 2-3 overs in that semi final.
Overall, he is an ATG but somehow whether due to lack of support or inability to see through the situation he just wasn't able to close out the games.

 

[Pakhs]

Man you are surely joking if you say that msd innings wasn't iconic.
Dhoni's innings was as iconic as it gets, yeah Gambhirs was even better but it takes nothing away from dhoni.
Dhoni's innings in final was better than inzi's
92 innings

How was it iconic? what defines an iconic knock according to you? I would argue Jayawardene's innings that day was better aswell!! Dhonis innings was only the 3rd best innings that day. I was watching the match live I know which innings won the match that day. It was Gambhir's innings so was that not iconic? Or all 3 innings were iconic? I would like to know your thoughts on this.

 

[Pakhs]

AB was tactically quite poor. He was always holding himself back and even sent in Rossou ahead of him at no. 4 when rain was expected to come any time during the semi final. His bowling changes were not good enough. Plus SA choked in last 2-3 overs in that semi final.
Overall, he is an ATG but somehow whether due to lack of support or inability to see through the situation he just wasn't able to close out the games.

AB for me had a lot of ability which he didnt himself believe in and resorted to taking risks in high pressure situations like many of his dumb run outs classic example being that suicidal second run against India when the run-rate was just up to 6 an over. This compares to some others i mentioned who backed their ability and didnt take any additional risks and backed their abilities in pressure cooker situations.

 

[Pakhs]

Man you are surely joking if you say that msd innings wasn't iconic.
Dhoni's innings was as iconic as it gets, yeah Gambhirs was even better but it takes nothing away from dhoni.
Dhoni's innings in final was better than inzi's
92 innings

I know you are Indian and naturally were happy for that innings and Dhoni but as neutral point of view Dhonis innings was not better than Inzi's. For starters Inzi played that knock in opposition home conditions as a 22 year old new comer under huge pressure compare to Dhoni who was mostly playing a supporting role to Ghambir at home where the whole of the crowd was cheering him. Big Difference!!

 

[Ab Fan]

AB for me had a lot of ability which he didnt himself believe in and resorted to taking risks in high pressure situations like many of his dumb run outs classic example being that suicidal second run against India when the run-rate was just up to 6 an over. This compares to some others i mentioned who backed their ability and didnt take any additional risks and backed their abilities in pressure cooker situations.

I got your point here which is quite valid and this is also one reason why I dont put him in top 3 greatest ODI bats of all-time.

However, even taking all those factors, he has got runs in WC and this thread is about how you rate his overall performance in World Cups as a neutral and by setting equal benchmark to every other player.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

AB for me had a lot of ability which he didnt himself believe in and resorted to taking risks in high pressure situations like many of his dumb run outs classic example being that suicidal second run against India when the run-rate was just up to 6 an over. This compares to some others i mentioned who backed their ability and didnt take any additional risks and backed their abilities in pressure cooker situations.

He just didn't put high enough price on his wicket in LOI's regardless of how good his stats are. He didn't have the ruthlessness of Kohli or Bevan to finish the game off. He would get out at crucial time after doing most of the hard work. The delivery that got him out in the WC15 match against Pakistan was nothing special. It was a simple back of a length 130kph delivery from Sohail Khan, and De Villiers uptil that point had dominated all the attack, yet he got out to a decent deliver with only 40odd runs to get. This is not the only time that had happend. He used to premeditate shots a lot, when that would go wrong he would have no back up to save his wicket. To see that from such an enormous talent was painful for me. In Tests, he did better though.

 

[Pakhs]

He just didn't put high enough price on his wicket in LOI's regardless of how good his stats are. He didn't have the ruthlessness of Kohli or Bevan to finish the game off. He would get out at crucial time after doing most of the hard work. The delivery that got him out in the WC15 match against Pakistan was nothing special. It was a simple back of a length 130kph delivery from Sohail Khan, and De Villiers uptil that point had dominated all the attack, yet he got out to a decent deliver with only 40odd runs to get. This is not the only time that had happend. He used to premeditate shots a lot, when that would go wrong he would have no back up to save his wicket. To see that from such an enormous talent was painful for me. In Tests, he did better though.

This might be another view point but for me he bottled in big games even when fully set. I mean common Run-outs? He was not his usual self in pressure situations and therefore not as good simple as that.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

How was it iconic? what defines an iconic knock according to you? I would argue Jayawardene's innings that day was better aswell!! Dhonis innings was only the 3rd best innings that day. I was watching the match live I know which innings won the match that day. It was Gambhir's innings so was that not iconic? Or all 3 innings were iconic? I would like to know your thoughts on this.

That final 6 was definitely an iconic and historic moment. Something the world will remember.

Similarly, Sarfraz taking the catch of Bumrah was iconic even though Sarfraz didn't do much in the final. It's the image that gets etched in the memor. A match can have more than one iconic moments, or even have none. That Misbah scoop would actually be more memorable for most than Sreesanth taking the catch.

 

[Pakhs]

That final 6 was definitely an iconic and historic moment. Something the world will remember.

Similarly, Sarfraz taking the catch of Bumrah was iconic even though Sarfraz didn't do much in the final. It's the image that gets etched in the memor. A match can have more than one iconic moments, or even have none. That Misbah scoop would actually be more memorable for most than Sreesanth taking the catch.

Well if thats the definition then its not a big deal as i was thinking. because every winning run/wicket is iconic moment and this case happened to be Dhoni fair enough. I was thinking it was something more significant, something that has not been done before often or signifies a change from the norm.

 

[Slog]

Nicely put up. It is mostly a Pakistani propoganda where you micro-analyze every WC inning.

Inzamam at 22, when opposition would least care about him, played a fantastic cameo and won them a WC semi final. But the way that inning is over-hyped and because of that inning, posters put Inzy from a very good ODI batsmen to top 10 ODI batsmen of all-time is quite absurd.

I agree with your list, although I will exchange AB with Ponting and get in Dhoni and Bevan ahead of Lara. But then everyone has their own flavour. So, nothing to debate on it.

How is that Inzamam inniings overhyped?

Its arguably the best ODI innings of all time taking into account pressure, stage, prestige, era, context

 

[Ab Fan]

How is that Inzamam inniings overhyped?

Its arguably the best ODI innings of all time taking into account pressure, stage, prestige, era, context

For that one inning, people in PP rate him from a very very good ODI bat to ATG and among top 10 batsmen of all-time. So, in that way he gets overhyped.

I will also argue the point you put up regarding that inning is an overstatement when we take into consideration that Inzy was a youngster back then and the weight of expectations wasnt much from him at that point of time on that stage.

It was still a great great inning but that one inning is not enough to make up for his failures in World Cups and CTs all through his career when he became an integral part of the team and that expectation rose up further.

 

[Mute Witness]

Just out of curiosity, where would you guys rate Arvinda De Silva in WCs?

 

[Slog]

For that one inning, people in PP rate him from a very very good ODI bat to ATG and among top 10 batsmen of all-time. So, in that way he gets overhyped.

I will also argue the point you put up regarding that inning is an overstatement when we take into consideration that Inzy was a youngster back then and the weight of expectations wasnt much from him at that point of time on that stage.

It was still a great great inning but that one inning is not enough to make up for his failures in World Cups and CTs all through his career when he became an integral part of the team and that expectation rose up further.

I agree with you generally

I def dont put him in the same bracket as a Viv but I would put that innings at the very top (def top 3)

Finally... while obviosuly if someone is saying he is top bracket in ODI they are wrong, I also think his stats dont do full justice to his ODI pedigree esp when building an innings in a chase and having others play around him. No excuse for his WC failures after 1992 though

 

[Ab Fan]

I agree with you generally

I def dont put him in the same bracket as a Viv but I would put that innings at the very top (def top 3)

Finally... while obviosuly if someone is saying he is top bracket in ODI they are wrong, I also think his stats dont do full justice to his ODI pedigree esp when building an innings in a chase and having others play around him. No excuse for his WC failures after 1992 though

Although, this thread has swung apart from de Villiers to Dhoni to Inzamam, coming back to the thread, what's your opinion on it?

 

[Ab Fan]

Just out of curiosity, where would you guys rate Arvinda De Silva in WCs?

In between the top 10-20 odi batsmen of all-time.

 

[Usman Chadda]

If we stick strictly to the WC, ABD is nowhere close to Inzi. Inzi literally won Pakistan the WC, since Pakistan was dead and buried in that semi-final until Inzi brought it back to life. Its one of the greatest knocks in ODI history, let alone if you talk about WCs only. That absurdly high SR completely caught NZ unaware, with teams not used to such an assault, let alone the fact that it came in one of the most high pressure matches of young Inzi’s career.

Now it’s a different story that ABD hasn’t been in such a situation, but he hasn’t really left a lasting impact on any WC. The only memories of ABD will be bashing a poor WI bowling attack senseless in a group match (still a high quality knock) and moments of despair in that NZ game. ABD’s best knock in the WC by far was in that NZ game, but it was eclipsed quite ruthlessly by Elliott’s genius knock that night.

Unfortunate, but ABD does not have any stand-out performances if you talk about WCs. Heck I would say Moin Khan’s cameo in that 92WC semi was more impactful than any of ABD’s knock in three World Cups.

 

[Ab Fan]

^Look, tbh, Using the above logic, Madan Lal 3/31 in WC 83 final was one of the most impactful bowling performance we ever saw in WC.

If we strict entirely to WCs, then on that part Waqar Younis is nowhere close to Lal. Lal literally won the WC when India were done and dusted after putting a score of meagre 180 against the legendary WI team.It was Lal who brought India back to life with a spell of 3/31 and getting the wicket of Viv Richards. So, in WCs, Lal is superior bowler to Waqar.

Waqar's best bowling performance came against South africa when he got 3 for 50 but was overshadowed by all-round effort of Cronje.

Using this absurd logic, even Lal can be considered of a higher significance than Waqar to their respective country because the former won them a World Cup.

At the end though, it is not one fluke performance which matters but it is overall consistent performance which should count.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

This might be another view point but for me he bottled in big games even when fully set. I mean common Run-outs? He was not his usual self in pressure situations and therefore not as good simple as that.

Yes pressure did get to him resulting in untimely outs yet he was still so good that he scored so much as reflected by his stats

 

[Usman Chadda]

^Look, tbh, Using the above logic, Madan Lal 3/31 in WC 83 final was one of the most impactful bowling performance we ever saw in WC.

If we strict entirely to WCs, then on that part Waqar Younis is nowhere close to Lal. Lal literally won the WC when India were done and dusted after putting a score of meagre 180 against the legendary WI team.It was Lal who brought India back to life with a spell of 3/31 and getting the wicket of Viv Richards. So, in WCs, Lal is superior bowler to Waqar.

Waqar's best bowling performance came against South africa when he got 3 for 50 but was overshadowed by all-round effort of Cronje.

Using this absurd logic, even Lal can be considered of a higher significance than Waqar to their respective country because the former won them a World Cup.

At the end though, it is not one fluke performance which matters but it is overall consistent performance which should count.

Which is why I said if we stick strictly to World Cups, since this thread is about WCs only. If we take overall career into consideration, ABD is a bigger performer than Inzi (who underachieved with all that talent). South Africans are generally considered the king of bilaterals.

Waqar has been shockingly poor if we take WCs into account, yes. Although his is a rare case since he was injured when he was at his peak and dropped from the team in WC99, thanks to Shoaib Akhtar. WC2003 Waqar was past his best, while he was meh in WC96. ABD had two golden opportunities in WC11 and WC15, when he was at the peak of his powers. He still couldn’t leave that lasting impact. As I said, the only lasting memory I have of ABD (besides that 162), is him in tears after Elliott killed his WC dreams.

 

[Ab Fan]

Which is why I said if we stick strictly to World Cups, since this thread is about WCs only. If we take overall career into consideration, ABD is a bigger performer than Inzi (who underachieved with all that talent). South Africans are generally considered the king of bilaterals.

Waqar has been shockingly poor if we take WCs into account, yes. Although his is a rare case since he was injured when he was at his peak and dropped from the team in WC99, thanks to Shoaib Akhtar. WC2003 Waqar was past his best, while he was meh in WC96. ABD had two golden opportunities in WC11 and WC15, when he was at the peak of his powers. He still couldn’t leave that lasting impact. As I said, the only lasting memory I have of ABD (besides that 162), is him in tears after Elliott killed his WC dreams.

I got your point here. What you mean is a lasting memory or lasting impact in World Cups which say Inzy or Dhoni has. Unfortunately, AB didnt had that kind of memory(162 was one but at the end it came against minnow) although he has been quite consistent and it takes a micro-analysis of first order to undermine the performance.

 

[Usman Chadda]

I got your point here. What you mean is a lasting memory or lasting impact in World Cups which say Inzy or Dhoni has. Unfortunately, AB didnt had that kind of memory(162 was one but at the end it came against minnow) although he has been quite consistent and it takes a micro-analysis of first order to undermine the performance.

That innings against NZ was world-class and only an innings as good as Elliot’s deserved to usurp his performance that night. As I said, unfortunate but true. No one will remember AB de Villiers if we’re talking strictly about World Cups.

 

[big_gamer007]

1. Sachin
2. Viv
3. Kohli (His career is not over so you can remove him from this list for now)
4. AB
5. Ponting
6. Lara

That is how the top 6 ODI batsman look till now. All these selective stats WC matches, WC knockout matches, WC knockout matches with Best team, WC knockout matches with best team playing their best bowler, WC knockout matches with best team playing their best bowlers in their peak years etc etc are just finding a needle in the haystack.

AB was an outstanding athlete (not just a player) and the debate ends there.

Yup people can micro analyse stats that is no issue however the problem on PP is that there is an inherent bias for obvious reasons and rather than analyzing the stats people manipulate and twist the stats in a way to make a player look bad or one of their favorites to look better than he actually is/was.

 

[big_gamer007]

Nicely put up. It is mostly a Pakistani propoganda where you micro-analyze every WC inning.

Inzamam at 22, when opposition would least care about him, played a fantastic cameo and won them a WC semi final. But the way that inning is over-hyped and because of that inning, posters put Inzy from a very good ODI batsmen to top 10 ODI batsmen of all-time is quite absurd.

I agree with your list, although I will exchange AB with Ponting and get in Dhoni and Bevan ahead of Lara. But then everyone has their own flavour. So, nothing to debate on it.

Dhoni and Bevan played a different role than Lara, you can add them above Lara since they were the best in their respective role as finishers.

Similarly Ponting and AB is debatable, the reason I put AB was when in full flow there is no other batsmen to have played the game who is/was more destructive, creative and entertaining to watch.

 

[Pakhs]

Dhoni and Bevan played a different role than Lara, you can add them above Lara since they were the best in their respective role as finishers.

Similarly Ponting and AB is debatable, the reason I put AB was when in full flow there is no other batsmen to have played the game who is/was more destructive, creative and entertaining to watch.

In this thread focus is on WC performances and AB was not a special WC players. WC is a knock out tournament where more than stats or big runs you need impact players who can do what is required in pressure cooker situations where AB has failed massively.

Dhoni has not done much either (but has been a great WC captain which is another topic).

Bevon has been good can can be classed as a great WC player and finisher.

Note: all these players have been fantastic players without doubt otherwise.

 

[big_gamer007]

In this thread focus is on WC performances and AB was not a special WC players. WC is a knock out tournament where more than stats or big runs you need impact players who can do what is required in pressure cooker situations where AB has failed massively.

Dhoni has not done much either (but has been a great WC captain which is another topic).

Bevon has been good can can be classed as a great WC player and finisher.

Note: all these players have been fantastic players without doubt otherwise.

Read my initial post. Post # 2 in this thread to understand where I stand on filtering performances to pick and chose.

 

[Pakhs]

Read my initial post. Post # 2 in this thread to understand where I stand on filtering performances to pick and chose.

Okay fair enough, But for me the player who have done well in WC deserve a special mention too! As they have been able to win their teams an important trophy which they may not have won otherwise.

 

[big_gamer007]

Okay fair enough, But for me the player who have done well in WC deserve a special mention too! As they have been able to win their teams an important trophy which they may not have won otherwise.

Ofcourse they deserve a mention, no doubt world cup performances are memorable like Dhoni's, SRTs, Vivs, Aravinda, Ponting, Gilly, Gambhir etc, but so are performances like Sachins sharjah knocks against aussies or Afridi or Jayasurya's fastest 50s etc.

My point was one should not judge the overall career of a batsman and say a batsman A (for example Inzi) is superior than a Batsman B (say AB) just because of a WC performance.

Also, every WC performance is important and not just the performances in finals or semi finals count as what a lot of people on PP think so that they can undermine Sachins WC record.

 

[Pakhs]

Ofcourse they deserve a mention, no doubt world cup performances are memorable like Dhoni's, SRTs, Vivs, Aravinda, Ponting, Gilly, Gambhir etc, but so are performances like Sachins sharjah knocks against aussies or Afridi or Jayasurya's fastest 50s etc.

My point was one should not judge the overall career of a batsman and say a batsman A (for example Inzi) is superior than a Batsman B (say AB) just because of a WC performance.

Also, every WC performance is important and not just the performances in finals or semi finals count as what a lot of people on PP think so that they can undermine Sachins WC record.

Sachin was a great overall player but you wouldnt necessarily say he was the man for big occasions. For instance in that 2003 WC final i didnt see anyone say you know Sachin will turn up because he wasnt this kind of player his probability of scoring was same in any match he played he didnt become better just because it was a WC match. Indeed for India there has not been many good WC players in the recent past the reason why they only won one WC despite them having a really good team that too at home.

Just to be clear i am not saying Sachin was not a great player due to this!!

 

[Majestic]

Excellent performance. An average of 63 at SR of 117 is outrageous for any era.