Eagle_Eye
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The Ahmedis are worse off than the slaves in sindh?
You clearly didn't read the OP, or did it not quite fit in your narrative?
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Ahmadi place of worship damaged, set on fire following spat between two youth groups in Faisalabad
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The Ahmedis are worse off than the slaves in sindh?
You clearly didn't read the OP, or did it not quite fit in your narrative?
Angrez Pakistani
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I don’t have a device to quantify pain and suffering.
Angrez Pakistani
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Just tell me what are trying to imply so that I can respond to you accordingly.
Eagle_Eye
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Obfuscation again.
Eagle_Eye
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It is what it says.... its couple of straight forward questions.
Angrez Pakistani
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On the contrary, I’m saying that the two issues are very different to each other. The dynamics of both these issues are different. These two issues are of completely different nature. So I’m not going to even try and compare these two issues. I’m not going to grade the pain and suffering of the two. Off course you are free to draw your own conclusions, but please don’t tag me on it.
Angrez Pakistani
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Sorry mate but you gotta do better than this. I have full confidence in you.
Slog
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you arent getting the point here
Ahmedi places of worship are an easy target. If Ahmedis werent involved then things could have been equally bad or worse but the religious angle would not have come so easily into the fray.
Angrez Pakistani
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It’s easier to misunderstand a situation without properly understanding the context of the incident.
Eagle_Eye
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Persecution is persecution.
Again the question is simple.
Are the Ahmedis better off or worse than the slaves in Sindh?
Eagle_Eye
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I don't think that's entirely the story here. 6 vs 25, disporportionately counter to the narrative. It needs to be fully investigated and perpetrators brought to justice. Dawn ofcourse kept the details suitably vague.
The thread started with IK getting the blame.... again there is a narrative to be peddled over and over.
What religion or sect do those slaves in Sindh belong to?
Those slaves could be from any sects or religions of Pakistan such as sunnis, shias, ahmadis, christians or hindus?
The question is were they enslaved because of their sectarian or religious affiliation?
By comparing them with all ahmadis of Pakistan, you are comparing apples and oranges.
Eagle_Eye
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Are they not human beings?
Do you not see people as individuals or you into group identity?
Why is everyone so reluctant in answering the question:
Are the Ahmedis better off or worse than the slaves of Sindh?
Again you are deliberately being disingenuous.
The answer is obvious. Some ahmadis might be better off than the slaves of Sindh and some Ahmadis may even be among those slaves of sindh for that matter.
Secondly, bonded labour or slavery is not limited to Sindh. This curse exists in every province of Pakistan and those slaves include people of every sect and religion of Pakistan including Ahmadis
Eagle_Eye
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The only person being disingenuous is you. It's a very common Pakistani trait I see.... just muddle everything. Ahmadis are not part of the sindh slaves or anywhere else like you tried to conflate.
Please show us what evidence you have to state Ahmedis " might be" amongst the slaves of Pakistan.
They throw money at the poor of Africa to propogate, you think Ahmadis will let their own fall into slavery and possible leaving the group? Ahmedis have a register of all their people. They are far more organised than you are letting on.
That's a fair point. But the fact remains that ahmadis are a persecuted minority in Pakistan.
When the persecution of minorities in Pakistan is mentioned, we tend to be dismissive about it and argue that the country is not safe for anyone right now including sunni muslims. But that is not true. The demographics of Pakistan from CIA factbook are:
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/pk.html
Muslim (official) 96.4% (Sunni 85-90%, Shia 10-15%), other (includes Christian and Hindu) 3.6% (2010 est.)
Now if there is an incident of terrorism at a bazaar or any public place in Pakistan, obviously most of those who are killed would be Sunnis cause they are around 85% of population. But sunnis are not being targeted because of their sectarian affiliation
I am sunni myself but when i visit Pakistan i am not too concerned about my safety when i go to the masjid. But my shia and Ahmadi friends have mentioned they are apprehensive about their safety even when they go to their mosque/imambargah. Countless shia imambargahs and muharram processions have been bombed and attacked across Pakistan not just since Sept11/2001 but since the days of Zia-ul-haq in the 1980s. Ahmadis are in the same situation but they have not suffered as much as the shias. However Ahmadis have been excommunicated by the govt so their persecution is state-sanctioned.
There are also frequent target killings of high-profile shias doctors, lawyers, bureaucrats, entrepreneurs all over Pakistan since 1980s. In karachi alone 70+ shia doctors have been killed, many times more have probably fled the country. It is one-sided violence because shias or ahmadis have hardly targeted any high-profile sunnis
That's my Doo Aanay
Angrez Pakistani
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Bro, my own cousin who was a doctor in Orangi Town Karachi was killed by sipah-e-sahaba due to his religious beliefs. So i don’t know what type of answer you are looking for here.
Abdullah719
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Got back at 2 am this morning to learn of Faisalabad incident. Chkd to see what exactly happened - below is the Regional police head's report. To all critics, our commitment to protection of the rights of all citizens remains a priority. Mob violence in all forms is unacceptable. <a href="https://t.co/lgzkMZq3HI">pic.twitter.com/lgzkMZq3HI</a></p>— Shireen Mazari (@ShireenMazari1) <a href="https://twitter.com/ShireenMazari1/status/1033005882626461696?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 24, 2018</a></blockquote>
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Before rushing to tweet in response to social media commentators ensured Punjab govt would take action against all the guilty. PM Khan and the govt are categorical about protecting all citizens and acting against all law breakers. <a href="https://t.co/AspFDLxwrA">https://t.co/AspFDLxwrA</a></p>— Shireen Mazari (@ShireenMazari1) <a href="https://twitter.com/ShireenMazari1/status/1033006779108614145?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 24, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Before rushing to tweet in response to social media commentators ensured Punjab govt would take action against all the guilty. PM Khan and the govt are categorical about protecting all citizens and acting against all law breakers. <a href="https://t.co/AspFDLxwrA">https://t.co/AspFDLxwrA</a></p>— Shireen Mazari (@ShireenMazari1) <a href="https://twitter.com/ShireenMazari1/status/1033006779108614145?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 24, 2018</a></blockquote>
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James
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Yep. Great point and needs to be seriously considered both in the context of this debate and in the context of many others, within the constant petty comparisons that are made to either amplify or belittle.
Ahmadis - theologically yes it is quite clear that they do not follow the Muslim faith, which fundamentally is a belief in a supreme being whose last prophet died in the year 632 (with a set of practices around that belief).
But they should still be treated as equal participants of a sovereign country, as religion is irrelevant to issues of ongoing citizenship (or should be), and clearly this does not happen at the moment. The new Prime Minister needs to sort this out.
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Ahmadi Graveyard Attacked In Sheikhupura As Extremists Try To Stop Woman’s Burial
Ahmadi graveyard in Sheikhupura was attacked by extremists who attempted to stop the burial of an Ahmadi woman. The incident took place in Safdarabad area of Sheikhupura.
When the Ahmadi woman’s dead body was brought to the graveyard for burial, a mob of extremists attacked the graveyard and tried to stop the heirs from burying the woman there due to her Ahmadi faith. The Ahmadi community members present on the occasion put up resistance and managed to finish the burial process.
The burial took place while the extremists were fighting the members of the community inside the graveyard.
Punjab Chief Minister Usman Buzdar’s Focal Person Azhar Mashwani wrote in a tweet that police and members of the administration reached the site as soon as the incident was reported. He further told that the complainant have withdrawn their application against the incident after ‘resolution of [the] issue’.
Mashwani also quoted the district administration as saying that two different areas have been demarcated for both communities’ graveyard as per an agreement between elders of both communities.
Earlier in December, a 2-year-old Ahmadi girl’s dead body was also refused burial in a village of Gojra, Punjab. The villagers had told heirs of the deceased child that Ahmadis cannot be allowed burial in ‘Muslim graveyards’.
Source:https://nayadaur.tv/2021/06/ahmadi-...pura-as-extremists-try-to-stop-womans-burial/
Ahmadi graveyard in Sheikhupura was attacked by extremists who attempted to stop the burial of an Ahmadi woman. The incident took place in Safdarabad area of Sheikhupura.
When the Ahmadi woman’s dead body was brought to the graveyard for burial, a mob of extremists attacked the graveyard and tried to stop the heirs from burying the woman there due to her Ahmadi faith. The Ahmadi community members present on the occasion put up resistance and managed to finish the burial process.
The burial took place while the extremists were fighting the members of the community inside the graveyard.
Punjab Chief Minister Usman Buzdar’s Focal Person Azhar Mashwani wrote in a tweet that police and members of the administration reached the site as soon as the incident was reported. He further told that the complainant have withdrawn their application against the incident after ‘resolution of [the] issue’.
Mashwani also quoted the district administration as saying that two different areas have been demarcated for both communities’ graveyard as per an agreement between elders of both communities.
Earlier in December, a 2-year-old Ahmadi girl’s dead body was also refused burial in a village of Gojra, Punjab. The villagers had told heirs of the deceased child that Ahmadis cannot be allowed burial in ‘Muslim graveyards’.
Source:https://nayadaur.tv/2021/06/ahmadi-...pura-as-extremists-try-to-stop-womans-burial/
Giannis
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Pakistan needs a mass education program to de-radicalize people from their irrational hatred of Ahmadis
Pakistan constitution does not consider Ahmedis as Muslims. So Ahmedis cannot bury their dead in Muslim graveyards. Change needs to come from the top. Bottom people are only following what they have been told.
Giannis
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Well they should be given a separate graveyard then, there are graveyards for different religions in America too although multifaith cemeteries do exist but they're not as common
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Pakistani police say they arrested eight men of the Ahmadi sect of Islam on Saturday who had opened fire on a group of Sunni Muslims the night prior, killing one and wounding another.
Senior officer Faisal Mukhtar said the Ahmadis shot at the Sunnis while they were chanting religious poems in the village of Bahuman, near Lahore in the eastern province of Punjab. One minor suspect was still missing.
The killing was a rare case of violence exercised by Ahmadis, who have long held a grievance against Pakistan's majority Sunnis, who consider them heretics.
Ahmadis believe that an additional prophet named Ghulam Ahmad was sent by God in the 19th century, centuries after the Prophet Muhammad. That view is at odds with the fundamental Islamic principle that Muhammad was God's final chosen messenger.
Pakistan amended its constitution in 1974 to specifically declare that Ahmadis are not Muslims and may not be called or call themselves that. It also barred them from preaching.
https://www.thehindu.com/news/inter...pparent-religious-killing/article65392464.ece
Senior officer Faisal Mukhtar said the Ahmadis shot at the Sunnis while they were chanting religious poems in the village of Bahuman, near Lahore in the eastern province of Punjab. One minor suspect was still missing.
The killing was a rare case of violence exercised by Ahmadis, who have long held a grievance against Pakistan's majority Sunnis, who consider them heretics.
Ahmadis believe that an additional prophet named Ghulam Ahmad was sent by God in the 19th century, centuries after the Prophet Muhammad. That view is at odds with the fundamental Islamic principle that Muhammad was God's final chosen messenger.
Pakistan amended its constitution in 1974 to specifically declare that Ahmadis are not Muslims and may not be called or call themselves that. It also barred them from preaching.
https://www.thehindu.com/news/inter...pparent-religious-killing/article65392464.ece
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A member of Pakistan's minority Ahmadiyya community was stabbed to death in the eastern town of Rabwah - officially known as Chenab Nagar - on Friday allegedly for refusing to chant religious slogans, a community activist and police said.
"The accused approached Naseer Ahmad, 62, an Ahmadi by faith and asked him to raise slogans of a party. On Ahmad's refusal, he repeatedly stabbed and killed him on spot," Saleem ud Din, a spokesman for the minority group, told Reuters.
The deceased, an active member of the community, was standing at a bus stop for his usual Friday ritual of paying his respects at a graveyard, Din said.
Read Suspected murderers of slain businessman arrested
"We are investigating the motive behind the murder, (the suspect's) links to any religious party has not been found yet," said Asad Rehman, a senior police officer in Chiniot district.
In May, a seminary student stabbed Abdul Salam, 33, a member of the Ahmadiyya community in Okara district, a community activist told Reuters.
Members of the Ahmadiyya community, who see themselves as an Islamic movement, have witnessed several incidents of violence in Pakistan.
Rights groups have expressed concerns about the persecution of the Ahmadiyya community and say the government has not done anything to protect its minority citizens.
Community leaders say legislative moves in 2018 and anti-Ahmadi rhetoric during the elections have entrenched legalized hate.
Express Tribune
"The accused approached Naseer Ahmad, 62, an Ahmadi by faith and asked him to raise slogans of a party. On Ahmad's refusal, he repeatedly stabbed and killed him on spot," Saleem ud Din, a spokesman for the minority group, told Reuters.
The deceased, an active member of the community, was standing at a bus stop for his usual Friday ritual of paying his respects at a graveyard, Din said.
Read Suspected murderers of slain businessman arrested
"We are investigating the motive behind the murder, (the suspect's) links to any religious party has not been found yet," said Asad Rehman, a senior police officer in Chiniot district.
In May, a seminary student stabbed Abdul Salam, 33, a member of the Ahmadiyya community in Okara district, a community activist told Reuters.
Members of the Ahmadiyya community, who see themselves as an Islamic movement, have witnessed several incidents of violence in Pakistan.
Rights groups have expressed concerns about the persecution of the Ahmadiyya community and say the government has not done anything to protect its minority citizens.
Community leaders say legislative moves in 2018 and anti-Ahmadi rhetoric during the elections have entrenched legalized hate.
Express Tribune
Rana
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