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Ajmal Shahzad: 'I've NEVER experienced racism in cricket'

TAK

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Ajmal Shahzad does not hold back when addressing a topic that continues to pose awkward questions for English cricket. The views of the former Yorkshire and England fast bowler, however, are not what many may expect.

'As a South Asian community, we cannot say that the pathways are closed or there's racism out there,' the Derbyshire bowling coach tells Sportsmail. 'I think that's a very easy place to go and it's actually a very bad place to go.'

As one of the few British Asian coaches of a county first team, and the first British-born Asian to play for Yorkshire, Shahzad is well placed to discuss the thorny issue of diversity in the game.


The 35-year-old was also a team-mate of Azeem Rafiq, who is suing Yorkshire over allegations of racial abuse and discrimination, claiming 'institutional racism' at the club left him close to taking his own life.

'But I can only go off my own experiences and I had a good time at Yorkshire and the people were good to me.

'It was such a good environment that I actually picked up the phone to (director of cricket) Martyn Moxon and (coach) Andrew Gale in December and asked if I could come and get involved in their practices and they welcomed me with open arms.'

Shahzad admits he went through a 'dark time' transitioning into coaching after his playing career - which saw him represent England in all three formats - ended prematurely in 2017 at the age of 32.

But he insists he never wanted a 'handout' and earned his breakthrough through his 'robustness' and never giving up.


After initially attempting to become an accountant, Shahzad coached at Ampleforth College near York then helped out unpaid with the MCC Young Cricketers before becoming their head coach. Following two years at Lord's, he was appointed by Derbyshire in February.

'In South Asian families such as mine, the men are the ones who go out and earn the crust,' says Shahzad. 'So from my playing days when the crust was strong, to walking away with just £20 a day was a tough pill to swallow with a young family to look after.

'I needed to get back on the horse. I knocked on five doors and none opened. I knocked on 10 and none opened. So I knocked on 45 and one of them opened.

'Some people might think there are barriers because they've knocked on two doors and none of them opened. But in my mind, you've not knocked on enough doors. Don't blame the person behind the door. Go knock on somebody else's door.

'The easy thing to say is "there's just no opportunity there" or "they look within". People get disheartened and say "it's because of this, this and this". Well actually no it's not, you're just not up to standard.

'At the end of the day, we're in professional sport. Don't expect a handout from anybody. That's something I learnt from a young age from my dad. If something becomes difficult to get and you finally get it, you appreciate it so much more.'

Analysis by Sportsmail showed that just six of 93 county coaches in 2020 were from a black, Asian and ethnic minority (BAME) background, with Surrey's Vikram Solanki the only British Asian head coach.

There were also just 33 BAME players in county first teams last season. The ECB launched a South Asian Action Plan in 2018, something Shahzad – who was raised in Bradford by a Pakistan-born father and Bradford-born mother – supported when it started.

But now he says: 'It kind of bugs me that we have these programmes because we are solely focusing on a group of players and I don't feel that there's a breakdown. I think there's enough opportunity out there.

'With the Young Cricketers, I held trials in Bradford, in London, in Birmingham. I was trying to create opportunities for everybody across the UK. It doesn't take much for someone to get in the car.

'We need to do everything we possibly can to create opportunities for ourselves. So get to practices on time and work hard. There's nothing stopping people from throwing in CVs and emailing people. Get yourselves on social media and showcase your skills online.'

Shahzad, though, does accept that not enough British Asians are making it as professionals – and he offers an explanation as to why.

'When you get to a certain age and you need to earn money from work, something's got to give and some of the time they go on and do office jobs and sacrifice sport,' he says.

'There's a better understanding now from South Asian families that sports can give you a livelihood. But some people can't just play cricket in the hope that they are going to get paid or make it as a professional.

'There's also what happens after cricket. When you need to go and get a job you have to start at the bottom of the ladder once again. If you started work as a trainee accountant, you're guaranteed to do that job for the next 40, 50 years and only go up.'

Still, Shahzad hopes his career can give other South Asians the belief they can make it to the top. He blazed a trail as a player, becoming the first Yorkshire-born Asian to play Test cricket for England when he won his only cap in 2010, returning match figures of 4-63 against Bangladesh.

He also appeared in 11 ODIs and three T20Is and was a non-playing member of the squad who won the 2010 World T20.


'I'd like to think that I am a role model for my community,' he admits. 'I represent a group of people and it's much bigger than just me.

'I probably didn't reach my full potential as a player. There were many contributing factors to that - injuries, time and place, coaches, luck. But as many lows as there were, there were many highs. I was one of England's quickest bowlers. I bowled two of the fastest spells in England's history - and that was in one Test.

'You think to yourself, "If you had stayed fit and played some more, would you have been a legend?". But I ruptured my Achilles and lost a bit of confidence in my body and it kind of went a bit pear-shaped.'

Shahzad, though, has his confidence back as a coach as he prepares for Derbyshire's County Championship opener at Warwickshire on Thursday.

'I played cricket to be the best I could be and go and represent my country,' he adds. 'I am now in the coaching game and my natural inclination is to be the best I can be and represent my country again.'


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/c...icket-new-life-Derbyshires-bowling-coach.html
 
The 35-year-old was also a team-mate of Azeem Rafiq, who is suing Yorkshire over allegations of racial abuse and discrimination, claiming 'institutional racism' at the club left him close to taking his own life.

'But I can only go off my own experiences and I had a good time at Yorkshire and the people were good to me.

'It was such a good environment that I actually picked up the phone to (director of cricket) Martyn Moxon and (coach) Andrew Gale in December and asked if I could come and get involved in their practices and they welcomed me with open arms.'

Hmmm….
 
His attitude towards racism is a balanced one. Perhaps this is due to him being born in the UK resulting in a tougher skin and better understanding of British society; when he failed in his career, he didn’t blame racism, he tried harder. Perhaps this is why YCCC accepted him with open arms.

Well done for speaking out and providing a much needed balanced view in what is already a circus show.
 
His attitude towards racism is a balanced one. Perhaps this is due to him being born in the UK resulting in a tougher skin and better understanding of British society; when he failed in his career, he didn’t blame racism, he tried harder. Perhaps this is why YCCC accepted him with open arms.

Well done for speaking out and providing a much needed balanced view in what is already a circus show.

I genuinely think this is it. Azeem couldn’t differentiate beteeen banter and abuse. Also desi victimhood complex doesn’t help
 
His attitude towards racism is a balanced one. Perhaps this is due to him being born in the UK resulting in a tougher skin and better understanding of British society; when he failed in his career, he didn’t blame racism, he tried harder. Perhaps this is why YCCC accepted him with open arms.

Well done for speaking out and providing a much needed balanced view in what is already a circus show.

This is a remarkably naive and ignorant thing to post. Adil Rashid has also come forward supporting Rafiq's claims on Vaughan, Tino Best was recently interviewed and he said that the Asian players at YCCC would get together and complain about how they were abused in pathway cricket...heck, YCCC's own report records and accepts there was racist language, backed up by one of the accused himself. Now several players across the counties, asian AND black have come forward, including at Essex.

Now, if you believe racist language is acceptable, just come out and say it, why hide behind all of this nonsense?
 
His attitude towards racism is a balanced one. Perhaps this is due to him being born in the UK resulting in a tougher skin and better understanding of British society; when he failed in his career, he didn’t blame racism, he tried harder. Perhaps this is why YCCC accepted him with open arms.

Well done for speaking out and providing a much needed balanced view in what is already a circus show.

It's not a balanced view, it's a man who's employed by Derbyshire as a coach who is never going to rock the boat after his own admission that getting a job in cricket coaching was incredibly hard. What's he going to say? You know what, my employers are racist".

Anyway, clearly they aren't, and fair play to him for grafting until he got a breakthrough. But he's lying if he says he never experienced racism unless he's lived an incredibly sheltered life. He only had to turn on the tv and he would see it, or open the paper which he's published this story in if he was honest.
 
Finally an Asian who isn’t playing the race and victim card. I can respect that.
 
Its entirely plausible that Shazad didn't experience any racism while playing.

Does that mean that racism isn't rampant in English cricket? Not at all. If it wasn't Shahzad himself wouldn't be the first ever British born Asian player to play for Yorkshire as late as 2006! Maybe it wouldn't have been as difficult for him to get a coaching gig. And maybe there would be more British Asian coaches in English cricket.

None of that though should take away from two things: (i) Not everyone is treated the same way or subject to the same kind of discrimination. Some people are always treated worse than others. (ii) Racism is institutional. And in Western countries in particular it tends to practiced implicitly by the use of organizational structures and a façade of formality and corporate doublespeak.
 
Finally an Asian who isn’t playing the race and victim card. I can respect that.

That comment is loaded with racist undertones itself. Very telling about the apologist mentality that some people carry around with them.
 
This is a remarkably naive and ignorant thing to post. Adil Rashid has also come forward supporting Rafiq's claims on Vaughan, Tino Best was recently interviewed and he said that the Asian players at YCCC would get together and complain about how they were abused in pathway cricket...heck, YCCC's own report records and accepts there was racist language, backed up by one of the accused himself. Now several players across the counties, asian AND black have come forward, including at Essex.

Now, if you believe racist language is acceptable, just come out and say it, why hide behind all of this nonsense?

Read my post again.

I never said racist language is acceptable, you are just insinuating. There is however a difference in language being out right racist, and language being subjective, and context is everything.

Saying 'too many of your lot' which is what MV said, is subjective, not racist, and MV is right to stand his ground and not apologise for making any racist comment. It's quite a common phrase up North and said to many demographics. This is the point I was making, you got to be born in the UK to understand the intricacies of racism in the UK. And all Adil Rashid confirmed is that MV did say what Azeem claims, doesn't mean it was a racist, and neither did Rashid claim MV was racist.

So some players said racists things were said, well, other players, such as in the OP, are saying the opposite - they never experienced racism.
 
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Wut? I played 4 club games in Scotland and experienced racism and this lad says this after playing hundreds of games. Bit far fetched.
 
MV "“Not many English people live in London. I need to learn a new language.”
 
Read my post again.

I never said racist language is acceptable, you are just insinuating. There is however a difference in language being out right racist, and language being subjective, and context is everything.

Saying 'too many of your lot' which is what MV said, is subjective, not racist, and MV is right to stand his ground and not apologise for making any racist comment. It's quite a common phrase up North and said to many demographics. This is the point I was making, you got to be born in the UK to understand the intricacies of racism in the UK. And all Adil Rashid confirmed is that MV did say what Azeem claims, doesn't mean it was a racist, and neither did Rashid claim MV was racist.

So some players said racists things were said, well, other players, such as in the OP, are saying the opposite - they never experienced racism.

In what world is saying "there's too many of your lot" not racist? It implicitly is, only the most blinkered apologist would even think otherwise.
 
The second Asian player after Rashid who is not wasted his career crying and blaming racism for his own failures. A very refreshing attitude indeed.

Everyone knows Rafiq is a liar. His stories are greatly exaggerated and he needs to apologize to everyone that he has accused and maligned.

The biggest racist at Yorkshire was Rafiq himself.
 
Isn't he employed by the ECB as a coach or something?
 
I think you need to calm down here Namoon, maybe leave this for people that have played cricket in Yorkshire.

I suggest you speak to some young Asian lads in yorkshire to get an idea about how bad it is at club level. Having played cricket in Yorkshire for a number of years, I have seen discrimination based on race on countless occasions , not only from players but club /leauge officials and umpires.

It's in little things like coaches not spending the same amount of time /effort for the Asian kids or kids not getting opportunities in trials.

Maybe next time your in the UK , I can take you two a couple of cricket games in South yorkshire , you can interact with the local clubs and supporters and make your own mind. 👍
 
Well in that case he may not want to ruffle any feathers.

Tbh he in the perfect position to ruffle feathers. Companies are going nuts about diversity, he is already within the system and could have benefited enormously from alleging abuse in his younger days.

He had a promising career for England but didnt get game time. He has a case to say he could have played.

Now as a coach, if he had decided to exploit the situation he could have cashed in big time and be appointed to all sorts of committees and boards etc.

He has made a brave call here.

It doesn't necessarily overrule anything Azeem Rafiq has said though before peopl3 jump to that conclusion.
 
Tbh he in the perfect position to ruffle feathers. Companies are going nuts about diversity, he is already within the system and could have benefited enormously from alleging abuse in his younger days.

He had a promising career for England but didnt get game time. He has a case to say he could have played.

Now as a coach, if he had decided to exploit the situation he could have cashed in big time and be appointed to all sorts of committees and boards etc.

He has made a brave call here.

It doesn't necessarily overrule anything Azeem Rafiq has said though before peopl3 jump to that conclusion.

Precisely. Unfortunately the UKIP brigade won't see it that way though, for them it's proof that the lordly English aren't capable of being racist, and any talk of racism in Yorkshire must be playing the race card...which of course nearly ALL Asians are doing when they bring this up.

I actually admire Shazad, he wasn't a great cricketer, but he's worked hard to make a career in the game and good for him, there's many other British Pakistanis who are doing likewise in their chosen careers. But that doesn't mean the issues spoken about Yorkshire don't exist, certainly not when Shazad is telling the story that readers of the Daily Mail want to hear.
 
His attitude towards racism is a balanced one. Perhaps this is due to him being born in the UK resulting in a tougher skin and better understanding of British society; when he failed in his career, he didn’t blame racism, he tried harder. Perhaps this is why YCCC accepted him with open arms.

Well done for speaking out and providing a much needed balanced view in what is already a circus show.

A balanced view sponsored by the Daily Mail*

Very genuine.
 
The second Asian player after Rashid who is not wasted his career crying and blaming racism for his own failures. A very refreshing attitude indeed.

Everyone knows Rafiq is a liar. His stories are greatly exaggerated and he needs to apologize to everyone that he has accused and maligned.

The biggest racist at Yorkshire was Rafiq himself.

You missed the bit where Ajmal was a colossal failure who is making a few quid of the most racist newspaper in the country :yk2
 
Only took an interview by Ajmal Shahzad for the 'It's just banter' tribe to come out with ready-made stories of 'I told you so...'

Pretty pathetic tbh and inevitable with the amount of people who claim racism doesn't exist in cricket.
 
Oh and it's by The DM, for goodness. Atleast hide your ignorance in knowing what that rag is about.

Those of you that don't live in the UK are excused, to a point. Those that have grown up here would know when and when not to take pointers from a rag that routinely posts racist and xenophobic vitriol in their media.
 
Well in that case he may not want to ruffle any feathers.

Possibly. There again he may not have experienced it.

However there's another guy who for quite a few years has been saying to me how he was racially abused for many years in club and then county cricket. Now he's been offered a coaching role, he said it never happened :)
 
Good on Shazad for speaking out.

By the way, where are the British Indian players in all of this ? We haven't heard a word from them regarding treatment of asian players. I would like to hear from Solanki, Panesar, Bopara, Samit and others about how they were treated in county cricket.
 
Good on Shazad for speaking out.

By the way, where are the British Indian players in all of this ? We haven't heard a word from them regarding treatment of asian players. I would like to hear from Solanki, Panesar, Bopara, Samit and others about how they were treated in county cricket.

Panesar is a ticking time bomb. Complete loose canon
 
Panesar is a ticking time bomb. Complete loose canon

I saw Panesar give an interview on this issue after the Azeem parliamentary hearing. The host asked him about his own career and Monty said he's not experienced any racism during his playing days, but that he supported Azeem pursuing any justice if he's been wronged.
 
The funny thing is that Tino Best has come out and said he saw how the Asian players were treated by Yorkshire, including Ajmal Shahzad.
 
I normally try to give people the benefit of the doubt but I have lost all respect for Ajmal Shahzad. He's not the first person who would sell out and ignore the suffering of others to protect his own successful career. I know some senior leaders of Asian descent at my workplace who completely "forgot" the racist abuse they faced in their career as soon as they got a promotion into the job they wanted. They still get looked down on and ignored by the people with real power but they now think they are better than other people of Asian heritage. They have no interest in promoting equality because they see it as competition. It wouldn't surprise me if Ajmal Shahzad holds similar views.

If he's saying he's never experienced racism in his whole career at any point, he's lying. I've attended county games in England, played club matches as a youngster in Scotland and there was nearly always something racist being said. Whether it's from the crowd or "banter"/"sledging" from players.

I'm glad Azeem Rafiq spoke up because it's brought racism not just to the forefront in cricket but there are now conversations being had all around the UK. We even had meetings at my workplace where people recognised that language they had assumed was just innocent joking around caused a lot of hurt.

We need more people challenging the norm like Azeem Rafiq and less appeasers like Ajmal Shahzad who only care about their own wage packets.
 
The second Asian player after Rashid who is not wasted his career crying and blaming racism for his own failures. A very refreshing attitude indeed.

Everyone knows Rafiq is a liar. His stories are greatly exaggerated and he needs to apologize to everyone that he has accused and maligned.

The biggest racist at Yorkshire was Rafiq himself.

But Adil Rashid did come out and validate Azeem’s story.
 
Funny how when someone says they have NOT experienced RACISM it taken as gospel! Yet when someone says they have 100 excuses are made.....cricket is a very white middle/upper middle class sport, most players who become professional come that background.
 
But Adil Rashid did come out and validate Azeem’s story.

That is because the fraud put him under relentless pressure by continuously dragging his name into all of this.

Otherwise if you look at his career, Adil Rashid has never played the victim card. He has rarely, if ever, talked about racism and discrimination and has let his performances do the talking. He has never been the one to make excuses.

He has been the polar opposite of Moeen who is always crying and moaning.
 
It’s an interesting account from Shahzad, and contrary to the reaction of some, it is in fact possible both for one player to have suffered racist abuse, and for another not to have done. The two situations don’t cancel each other out and they can both be true at the same time.

It is additionally possible for two people’s experiences to have had objective similarities, but have been perceived differently by them — because they are different people, on different journeys, from different families, and with subtly different neurologies. Subjectivity is then potentially a factor at work here as well.

If we are going to say that we will listen to someone’s individual testimony of their lived experience (as we should) then we can’t just elect to do so when the process affirms our own conclusions, and then dismiss any differing voices because we don’t personally like to hear what they have to say and think they are wrong. That would be the worst type of confirmation bias and is not going to result in any meaningful progress on this issue.

No half measures. This is why I think English cricket needs to take the unprecedented move of a public truth and reconciliation commission on racism in the game, at all levels, with the opportunity (not the guarantee) to apply for a civil amnesty or criminal immunity when giving evidence. We need to hear from a wide range of voices on this, get everything out into the open, deal with it, then all walk onwards together and move on. I don’t see any other way forward in the long term.
 
Ajmal is the lucky one and we wish him well but I would like to hear his views once he is out of the system.

His views do not in anyway cancel out what Azeem and others have said.
 
Some hold the opinion of "either or" where as mentioned both can exist within any given system!
 
However there's another guy who for quite a few years has been saying to me how he was racially abused for many years in club and then county cricket. Now he's been offered a coaching role, he said it never happened :)

Somebody heavily involved in cricket in Yorkshire professionally said what you’ve just said, almost verbatim, about Shazad, to me yesterday…
 
Somebody heavily involved in cricket in Yorkshire professionally said what you’ve just said, almost verbatim, about Shazad, to me yesterday…

I think there are a few out there who have now suddenly lost their tongue, in the hope they'll get some role at the ECB etc.
 
I think there are a few out there who have now suddenly lost their tongue, in the hope they'll get some role at the ECB etc.

I’ll tell you what Saj, there’s a hell of a lot of bickering and back biting, cliques etc around here between Pakistani lads involved in cricket, in whatever capacity.
 
I think [MENTION=9]Saj[/MENTION] view on this is important because of his first hand chats with some people. There are a few aspects we need to understand about English cricket and the environment. I've spoken to low level cricketers and most are ok with the environment l. But this is club cricket. I have also read accounts from numerous cricketers at the highest level.

With regards to racism and institutional racism. I have experienced it first hand. You see if you are a low level employee who is happy to clock in and out say yes sir keep your head down and just laugh if a remark is made, you'll be fine. You won't have any self respect but you'll be OK.. a nice naukar with a naukar mentality. Moving your head from left to right to please your masta. Like many on this forum.

But once you get to a certain level where you start interacting with senior directors and policy makers. Where you walk into boardrooms and they look at you iike you are an alien. Or meetings where some think you don't have the same value as a white blonde haired man or woman. Then you suddenly start realising the truth.

And then you apply for promotions. And it begins. You sit on interview panels as the token Asian or bame rep and you see how the system works in favour of one community over another. You see how the advantages provided from the start just permeate through and you sit and analyse. You find out that thisnisnt just about racist remarks or drinking culture. It is much deeper and insidious. Its a system that is purposely built a certain way.

And I have seen the culture from the bottom to the top. I have worked in large organisations where from the outside they come across as inclusive but when you get there you realise the truth. My other half worked as a senior union rep in one of the world's biggest multinationals and the cases she dealt with were horrifying. The racism that you could never call out because they have found a way to cover themselves via the system.

What azeem has done is shone a light on one particular sector of the system. It is not a surprise but things can change.

I now work in another organisation where they have made a conscious decision to make a change. After many years you can finally see senior directors from Asian and black backgrounds. Managers and senior managers breaking through. But there is miles to go. It's about culture and acceptance.

To those on here who denigrate azeem go right ahead. It means nothing to those of us who know what needs to be done and what the right way is. Allah swt works in mysterious ways. Good can come fro some of the worst of us and horror can come from the best of us. (Or those that think they are doing good).

Finally to those on here who continue to try to fool us with their petty Internet games. We see you for what you are. Bottom feeders and inhumane apologists to oppression. We know who you are and what you are. The dregs of this society. The selfish slavish pond **** who cling to their master hoping for a morsel. Your reckoning will come. You will face your tests. Then you will see. But you may not have the character to turn around and learn from it. Let's hope you do.
 
I’ll tell you what Saj, there’s a hell of a lot of bickering and back biting, cliques etc around here between Pakistani lads involved in cricket, in whatever capacity.

I'm certain that not all will have experienced racism. A lot depends on which teams and where they were playing.

What is interesting though is those who have suddenly changed their stance and lost their tongue after complaining about this for many years.
 
I’ll tell you what Saj, there’s a hell of a lot of bickering and back biting, cliques etc around here between Pakistani lads involved in cricket, in whatever capacity.
That's just the Pakistani diaspora in general
 
I think [MENTION=9]Saj[/MENTION] view on this is important because of his first hand chats with some people. There are a few aspects we need to understand about English cricket and the environment. I've spoken to low level cricketers and most are ok with the environment l. But this is club cricket. I have also read accounts from numerous cricketers at the highest level.

With regards to racism and institutional racism. I have experienced it first hand. You see if you are a low level employee who is happy to clock in and out say yes sir keep your head down and just laugh if a remark is made, you'll be fine. You won't have any self respect but you'll be OK.. a nice naukar with a naukar mentality. Moving your head from left to right to please your masta. Like many on this forum.

But once you get to a certain level where you start interacting with senior directors and policy makers. Where you walk into boardrooms and they look at you iike you are an alien. Or meetings where some think you don't have the same value as a white blonde haired man or woman. Then you suddenly start realising the truth.

And then you apply for promotions. And it begins. You sit on interview panels as the token Asian or bame rep and you see how the system works in favour of one community over another. You see how the advantages provided from the start just permeate through and you sit and analyse. You find out that thisnisnt just about racist remarks or drinking culture. It is much deeper and insidious. Its a system that is purposely built a certain way.

And I have seen the culture from the bottom to the top. I have worked in large organisations where from the outside they come across as inclusive but when you get there you realise the truth. My other half worked as a senior union rep in one of the world's biggest multinationals and the cases she dealt with were horrifying. The racism that you could never call out because they have found a way to cover themselves via the system.

What azeem has done is shone a light on one particular sector of the system. It is not a surprise but things can change.

I now work in another organisation where they have made a conscious decision to make a change. After many years you can finally see senior directors from Asian and black backgrounds. Managers and senior managers breaking through. But there is miles to go. It's about culture and acceptance.

To those on here who denigrate azeem go right ahead. It means nothing to those of us who know what needs to be done and what the right way is. Allah swt works in mysterious ways. Good can come fro some of the worst of us and horror can come from the best of us. (Or those that think they are doing good).

Finally to those on here who continue to try to fool us with their petty Internet games. We see you for what you are. Bottom feeders and inhumane apologists to oppression. We know who you are and what you are. The dregs of this society. The selfish slavish pond **** who cling to their master hoping for a morsel. Your reckoning will come. You will face your tests. Then you will see. But you may not have the character to turn around and learn from it. Let's hope you do.

This is an unnecessarily smug and sanctimonious post. You dont really have an idea of the background of posters, where they have worked what they have achieved within the workplace. To call people bottom feeders and head shaking flunkys is frankly disrespectful.

With the exception of 1-2 obvious trolls the majority of posters accept that there is racism in cricket ( we have experienced it growing up) but are savvy enough to not pin our hopes on this guy Azeem.....because he was firmly a part of the culture. Yes he did get racist abuse but the million dollar question has always been his own attitude. Was he an uncle tom apna trying his best to fit and got caught playing a double game? Did his boozing and partying invite players to be comfortable with him and partake in banter?

Again it doesnt excuse the racism, if true and if instutional, but it gives vital context as the context. Reading the allegations does make it sound like there was institutional racism but we are seeing one side of the story and with very low balled questions.

More and more will be revealed. I understand you are passionate about anti-racism and about cricket. Perhaps the horrible experiences you have faced and seen make you automatically support and accept Azeems account and berate anyone who disagrees.

This guy Azeem is going to set us and the anti racism cause back, more than he brings any meaningful change.

You are perhaps a generation removed from being in the trenches so to speak...but trust me many of us of similar age groups have seen guys like Azeem and will remain sceptical of their intentions.
 
Here's a question for the PP users who say they were victims of racism on the English cricket circuit - did you report it? If no' why not? If yes, what was the outcome?
 
Here's a question for the PP users who say they were victims of racism on the English cricket circuit - did you report it? If no' why not? If yes, what was the outcome?

Only played at club levels. There was nobody to report it to. The whole system was made up of the same people and the senior teams made up of older men who would try their best to remain edgy.

Explicit racism was rare (in my experience) but called 'banter' if someone complained. 'Black B' and '****' were whispered words that people would deny when overheard.

The culture of the club was very much booze and partying that excluded many Asian players - even in younger age groups this was the case. Azeem complained despite being part of that boozy culture, the problems are only exacerbated when you don't engage in these activities.

The old boys club existed in many of the larger and more established leagues, particularly in areas like Yorkshire.

Asian players were always dropped faster and termed disruptive etc for doing the same thing as white people.

Most Asian people ended up leaving and playing tape ball in local parks, infinitely more fun and probably the right level for people like me...but we could have had some future Ben Stokes in there too.
 
This is an unnecessarily smug and sanctimonious post. You dont really have an idea of the background of posters, where they have worked what they have achieved within the workplace. To call people bottom feeders and head shaking flunkys is frankly disrespectful.

With the exception of 1-2 obvious trolls the majority of posters accept that there is racism in cricket ( we have experienced it growing up) but are savvy enough to not pin our hopes on this guy Azeem.....because he was firmly a part of the culture. Yes he did get racist abuse but the million dollar question has always been his own attitude. Was he an uncle tom apna trying his best to fit and got caught playing a double game? Did his boozing and partying invite players to be comfortable with him and partake in banter?

Again it doesnt excuse the racism, if true and if instutional, but it gives vital context as the context. Reading the allegations does make it sound like there was institutional racism but we are seeing one side of the story and with very low balled questions.

More and more will be revealed. I understand you are passionate about anti-racism and about cricket. Perhaps the horrible experiences you have faced and seen make you automatically support and accept Azeems account and berate anyone who disagrees.

This guy Azeem is going to set us and the anti racism cause back, more than he brings any meaningful change.

You are perhaps a generation removed from being in the trenches so to speak...but trust me many of us of similar age groups have seen guys like Azeem and will remain sceptical of their intentions.

100% correct.

Me personally, I have experienced proper racism, and will always question this peusdo-racism Asians love to cling to. Thanks to my experience I can distinguish between the two.

Just because someone disagrees with me doesn't make them a racist. Just because I fail, isn't because of racism. Just because my mates use words doesn't mean institutional racism exists.

I am convinced if Azeem was born in the UK he'd have a better understanding and wouldn't need to resort to compensated victimhood while putting the rest of Brit Pakistanis to shame.

He was in it for the money. Clear as daylight.
 
100% correct.

Me personally, I have experienced proper racism, and will always question this peusdo-racism Asians love to cling to. Thanks to my experience I can distinguish between the two.

Just because someone disagrees with me doesn't make them a racist. Just because I fail, isn't because of racism. Just because my mates use words doesn't mean institutional racism exists.

I am convinced if Azeem was born in the UK he'd have a better understanding and wouldn't need to resort to compensated victimhood while putting the rest of Brit Pakistanis to shame.

He was in it for the money. Clear as daylight.

Define "proper" racism....

Regardless of what you think Azeem has made an actual difference in bringing racism into the mainstream conversation in the UK. There were a lot of comments after the Black Lives Matter movement that racism was a US issue but it's now being acknowledged that institutional racism exists in the UK. A lot of people are having to be introspective and recognise they used inappropriate language and sometimes even behaviours.

I can certainly verify some of the comments the previous poster, the Great Khan, made. I work for a UK wide organisation that had to put a racial equality plan in place because there was clear racial bias in recruitment. I have personally been on a recruitment panel as the sole BAME representative and been pressured to reduce scores for BAME candidates because the white candidate had gotten "nervous" but they knew they were more capable.

Is stopping people of colour from getting promotion to promote less competent white candidates racism? Or does it need to be verbal abuse or even physical abuse?

I've been chased down a street and been beaten up just for the colour of my skin, which is an obvious racist act. I was one of two non-white cricketers in my local team and got targeted by abuse until I left with no support from the other non-white cricketer because he wanted to be in on the "joke" and would often join in with the abuse, again blatant racism. But then I can also recognise the snide remarks made and "banter" about my background in my workplace, as another form of racism. It might not have left me with any physical injuries but the hurt was the same.

Also for all the comments about why don't you report these. It sounds easy until you realise that often you are outnumbered and reporting it to people who probably hold similar views. In some cases for example at the cricket team, most the abuse was from the children or relatives of club board members. It's easier just to give up and do something else. In my case join a badminton club with a more inclusive culture.
 
Define "proper" racism....

Regardless of what you think Azeem has made an actual difference in bringing racism into the mainstream conversation in the UK. There were a lot of comments after the Black Lives Matter movement that racism was a US issue but it's now being acknowledged that institutional racism exists in the UK. A lot of people are having to be introspective and recognise they used inappropriate language and sometimes even behaviours.

I can certainly verify some of the comments the previous poster, the Great Khan, made. I work for a UK wide organisation that had to put a racial equality plan in place because there was clear racial bias in recruitment. I have personally been on a recruitment panel as the sole BAME representative and been pressured to reduce scores for BAME candidates because the white candidate had gotten "nervous" but they knew they were more capable.

Is stopping people of colour from getting promotion to promote less competent white candidates racism? Or does it need to be verbal abuse or even physical abuse?

I've been chased down a street and been beaten up just for the colour of my skin, which is an obvious racist act. I was one of two non-white cricketers in my local team and got targeted by abuse until I left with no support from the other non-white cricketer because he wanted to be in on the "joke" and would often join in with the abuse, again blatant racism. But then I can also recognise the snide remarks made and "banter" about my background in my workplace, as another form of racism. It might not have left me with any physical injuries but the hurt was the same.

Also for all the comments about why don't you report these. It sounds easy until you realise that often you are outnumbered and reporting it to people who probably hold similar views. In some cases for example at the cricket team, most the abuse was from the children or relatives of club board members. It's easier just to give up and do something else. In my case join a badminton club with a more inclusive culture.

LOL At Azeem has made a difference in bringing racism into mainstream conversation racism in the UK isn’t a secret. Stephen Lawrence made the difference by sacrificing his life, yet saying a cricket county is racist isn’t a biblical revelation!

Proper/explicit racism is described as you say in your 4th para. Being chased down the street, physically abused because of the colour of your skin. Not words! Sticks and stones and all that.

Please stop pretending laws do not exist in employment to prevent discrimination. If you feel you are a victim of racism at work, you can complain to HR who must adhere to UK law which are designed to punish racism NOT prevent racism.

Don’t cringe when I ask why racism wasn’t reported by those who complained. It’s a simple question, and for you to say most of the abuse was from children is EXACTLY what I have been saying, got to be born in the UK to understand racism cos most of it is experienced at school!
 
Here's a question for the PP users who say they were victims of racism on the English cricket circuit - did you report it? If no' why not? If yes, what was the outcome?

My guess is there was either nobody to report it to and even if there was, those people would do nothing about it. If they did actually report it I guess that it was just brushed under the carpet.

I'd be amazed if anyone at any club actually did anything about reports of racism.
 
LOL At Azeem has made a difference in bringing racism into mainstream conversation racism in the UK isn’t a secret. Stephen Lawrence made the difference by sacrificing his life, yet saying a cricket county is racist isn’t a biblical revelation!

Proper/explicit racism is described as you say in your 4th para. Being chased down the street, physically abused because of the colour of your skin. Not words! Sticks and stones and all that.

Please stop pretending laws do not exist in employment to prevent discrimination. If you feel you are a victim of racism at work, you can complain to HR who must adhere to UK law which are designed to punish racism NOT prevent racism.

Don’t cringe when I ask why racism wasn’t reported by those who complained. It’s a simple question, and for you to say most of the abuse was from children is EXACTLY what I have been saying, got to be born in the UK to understand racism cos most of it is experienced at school!

Firstly I don't know where in the UK you live but the Stephen Lawrence case made no difference in Scotland at all. It was easily dismissed as an English problem. The same way that the BLM movement has been dismissed as an American problem. Mainly because there were very few black people living in Scotland and there's actually been a massive unrelated increase in racism towards black people in the last decade or so due to an increase in African refugees being moved to deprived areas of Glasgow where racism towards minorities was already high.

Secondly I have been a victim of racist attacks and abuse my whole life but what has affected my life more is the subtle racism I faced in my career. I'm sure sticks and stones sounds good on paper until you find your career progression and earnings blocked by this form of racism. Going to HR is pointless because it will nearly always be a case of your word against another, often a group of others in a more senior position. It's often impossible to prove and then your card is marked as the troublemaker. Good luck trying to build a career after that. I had to leave my last workplace because after repeatedly failing to get promotions I was told that by a recruiting they don't like people like me in senior management positions. I complained to HR, nothing happened and I was no longer being invited to work on special projects.

Regardless of what you think about Azeem, there are now discussions happening around institutional racism and a lot of introspection. I know this because I work for one of the biggest employers in the UK and have attended meetings where directors have directly referenced Azeem's case when launching our organisation's own racial equality plan.

Also to point out I was born in Scotland, have lived here pretty much my whole life apart from a short career break living in Japan and went to a Catholic school where I was the first non-white student in the school. I experienced racism both in school and outside school. Racism wasn't just children in schools. If you've never experienced racism from adults, then you are either very lucky or in denial. I could probably give you hundreds of examples of racism I've faced an adult, ranging from being called a terrorist, through to someone screaming racist abuse in my ear on the train or even someone trying to bottle me (just to clarify if this is just a Glaswegian expression but to bottle someone is to smash a glass bottle on their head).
 
Firstly I don't know where in the UK you live but the Stephen Lawrence case made no difference in Scotland at all. It was easily dismissed as an English problem. The same way that the BLM movement has been dismissed as an American problem. Mainly because there were very few black people living in Scotland and there's actually been a massive unrelated increase in racism towards black people in the last decade or so due to an increase in African refugees being moved to deprived areas of Glasgow where racism towards minorities was already high.

Secondly I have been a victim of racist attacks and abuse my whole life but what has affected my life more is the subtle racism I faced in my career. I'm sure sticks and stones sounds good on paper until you find your career progression and earnings blocked by this form of racism. Going to HR is pointless because it will nearly always be a case of your word against another, often a group of others in a more senior position. It's often impossible to prove and then your card is marked as the troublemaker. Good luck trying to build a career after that. I had to leave my last workplace because after repeatedly failing to get promotions I was told that by a recruiting they don't like people like me in senior management positions. I complained to HR, nothing happened and I was no longer being invited to work on special projects.

Regardless of what you think about Azeem, there are now discussions happening around institutional racism and a lot of introspection. I know this because I work for one of the biggest employers in the UK and have attended meetings where directors have directly referenced Azeem's case when launching our organisation's own racial equality plan.

Also to point out I was born in Scotland, have lived here pretty much my whole life apart from a short career break living in Japan and went to a Catholic school where I was the first non-white student in the school. I experienced racism both in school and outside school. Racism wasn't just children in schools. If you've never experienced racism from adults, then you are either very lucky or in denial. I could probably give you hundreds of examples of racism I've faced an adult, ranging from being called a terrorist, through to someone screaming racist abuse in my ear on the train or even someone trying to bottle me (just to clarify if this is just a Glaswegian expression but to bottle someone is to smash a glass bottle on their head).


With respect, I stopped at the line where you said `Stephen Lawrence made no difference to Scots at is was dismissed as an English problem’. This is racism within itself.

If you feel Stephen Lawrence was an English Problem then you have exposed yourself as an ignorant bias racist soul who odesn’t understand institutional racism. You are only supporting Azeem cos he is brown, from Pakistan, is a Muslim, and in the Cricket fraternity. In ENGLAND! PATHETIC!

Wake up poor child, racism has no boundaries. This isn’t BRAVE-HEART; Stephen Lawrence was a human, English, Black, and a teenager who did not deserve what happened to him. Your views towards him are the very reason why your hollow cries of racism are not taken seriously and fall on deaf ears.

I will stand against racism when I see it sincere and a sacrifice; I will stand and salute the family of Stephen Lawerence, but you and your views are the very reason why no one takes Asians seriously, cos you are a racist yourself.

Racism knows no boundaries, and not confined to the colour and faith that suits you. Shame on you discriminating racism based on Hadrian’s wall and LARD.
 
Possibly. There again he may not have experienced it.

However there's another guy who for quite a few years has been saying to me how he was racially abused for many years in club and then county cricket. Now he's been offered a coaching role, he said it never happened :)

Owais Shah?
 
With respect, I stopped at the line where you said `Stephen Lawrence made no difference to Scots at is was dismissed as an English problem’. This is racism within itself.

If you feel Stephen Lawrence was an English Problem then you have exposed yourself as an ignorant bias racist soul who odesn’t understand institutional racism. You are only supporting Azeem cos he is brown, from Pakistan, is a Muslim, and in the Cricket fraternity. In ENGLAND! PATHETIC!

Wake up poor child, racism has no boundaries. This isn’t BRAVE-HEART; Stephen Lawrence was a human, English, Black, and a teenager who did not deserve what happened to him. Your views towards him are the very reason why your hollow cries of racism are not taken seriously and fall on deaf ears.

I will stand against racism when I see it sincere and a sacrifice; I will stand and salute the family of Stephen Lawerence, but you and your views are the very reason why no one takes Asians seriously, cos you are a racist yourself.

Racism knows no boundaries, and not confined to the colour and faith that suits you. Shame on you discriminating racism based on Hadrian’s wall and LARD.

Where did I dismiss Stephen Lawrence and what happened to him? It should never have happened. I was in primary school at the time but I can only tell you that in Scotland nothing changed. No one spoke about racism as a problem before it happened and no one spoke about it as an issue after it happened. I'm sure there were changes that happened elsewhere but I never saw anything change in Scotland. Now if you can't understand why people in Scotland at the time didn't make changes to fight racism, then that's for you to work out. Like I said I was in primary school, I knew nothing about the case but have read about it as an adult and can only comment on what I saw growing up.

Also I'm not supporting Azeem because of his race, religion or even nationality but defending the impact this case has had. There are now conversations happening that I have never experienced before. There are people talking about mistakes they've made and changes they want to see as a result. Again maybe you have experienced these conversations your whole life and no longer view racism as a problem but in Scotland we still very much have issues with racism. All my colleagues regardless of their race are discussing the new racial equality plan my organisation has just introduced. Something that clearly didn't exist before but the current debates in the media have influenced my organisation's directors to take racism seriously.

I have no hatred for any race or religion. I already told you I went to a Catholic school. Most of my friends are non-Muslim. I lived in Japan and became friends with people from all over the world. I have suffered racism and would never wish it upon even my worst enemy.

Also stop embarrassing yourself with comments like "Hadrian's wall" and "lard". That's literally one of the most embarrassing comments I've read from someone trying desperately for people to take him seriously. It makes you sound like a petulant child.

I've said all I'm going to say on this topic. It's Saturday evening and I have better things to do.
 
Where did I dismiss Stephen Lawrence and what happened to him? It should never have happened. I was in primary school at the time but I can only tell you that in Scotland nothing changed. No one spoke about racism as a problem before it happened and no one spoke about it as an issue after it happened. I'm sure there were changes that happened elsewhere but I never saw anything change in Scotland. Now if you can't understand why people in Scotland at the time didn't make changes to fight racism, then that's for you to work out. Like I said I was in primary school, I knew nothing about the case but have read about it as an adult and can only comment on what I saw growing up.

Also I'm not supporting Azeem because of his race, religion or even nationality but defending the impact this case has had. There are now conversations happening that I have never experienced before. There are people talking about mistakes they've made and changes they want to see as a result. Again maybe you have experienced these conversations your whole life and no longer view racism as a problem but in Scotland we still very much have issues with racism. All my colleagues regardless of their race are discussing the new racial equality plan my organisation has just introduced. Something that clearly didn't exist before but the current debates in the media have influenced my organisation's directors to take racism seriously.

I have no hatred for any race or religion. I already told you I went to a Catholic school. Most of my friends are non-Muslim. I lived in Japan and became friends with people from all over the world. I have suffered racism and would never wish it upon even my worst enemy.

Also stop embarrassing yourself with comments like "Hadrian's wall" and "lard". That's literally one of the most embarrassing comments I've read from someone trying desperately for people to take him seriously. It makes you sound like a petulant child.

I've said all I'm going to say on this topic. It's Saturday evening and I have better things to do.

Too mush wishy washy nonsense. You have not addressed the point where you dismissed Stephen Lawerence as an 'English' problem. Save the damage control.

Plus who cares you lived in Japan - irrelevant. Side step, side show.

You got exposed bud. Truth is the easiest thing to remember.
 
Good on Shazad for speaking out.

By the way, where are the British Indian players in all of this ? We haven't heard a word from them regarding treatment of asian players. I would like to hear from Solanki, Panesar, Bopara, Samit and others about how they were treated in county cricket.

Did any of them play for Yorkshire?
 
That is because the fraud put him under relentless pressure by continuously dragging his name into all of this.

Otherwise if you look at his career, Adil Rashid has never played the victim card. He has rarely, if ever, talked about racism and discrimination and has let his performances do the talking. He has never been the one to make excuses.

He has been the polar opposite of Moeen who is always crying and moaning.

You are right, Adil Rashid never played the victim card, but who are you to be commenting on Moeen's character? You yourself refer to British Pakistanis being second class citizens regardless of being born in Britain because of their brown skin, so you aren't in any position to use Adil Rashid as a positive example, since logically you must consider him a second class citizen.

Not that he is of course, these are just machinations of your own self hatred coming to the fore.
 
That is because the fraud put him under relentless pressure by continuously dragging his name into all of this.

Otherwise if you look at his career, Adil Rashid has never played the victim card. He has rarely, if ever, talked about racism and discrimination and has let his performances do the talking. He has never been the one to make excuses.

He has been the polar opposite of Moeen who is always crying and moaning.
So a guy who played semi final for England and still has 4-5 years of cricket left in him sided with a nobody who was dragging his name. You know how you are sounding right now.
 
His attitude towards racism is a balanced one. Perhaps this is due to him being born in the UK resulting in a tougher skin and better understanding of British society; when he failed in his career, he didn’t blame racism, he tried harder. Perhaps this is why YCCC accepted him with open arms.

Well done for speaking out and providing a much needed balanced view in what is already a circus show.

25% of club cricketers in UK are South Asian. 4% of professionals are. Seems pretty clear to me that there are racial barriers to progression.
 
Here's a question for the PP users who say they were victims of racism on the English cricket circuit - did you report it? If no' why not? If yes, what was the outcome?

I have never directly suffered it, nor am I the type of guy who wouldn’t cause world war 3 on a cricket field had I ever been the victim of racial abuse or prejudice. However, I have personally witnessed incidents, heard accounts through other people indirectly and know things. So I am 100% convinced it exists.

I mentioned somewhere an incident I witnessed with my own eyes, and has stayed with me forever since. I can never forget it.

When I was 16 and just finished by GCSEs, my father allowed me to enrol at a local cricket club in Surrey. Before that, I was only playing school level cricket with the odd game of club cricket at a friends club in Middlesex. This was the first time in my life where I was exposed to racial dynamics that are involved in large cricket clubs. I soon came to realise that the 1sts and 2nds were a diverse and competitive bunch, however the 3s and 4s were set up totally different due to the social nature of the teams and their competitions. You could say, that the entire club’s patrons, committee members and main families running the club where the 3rd XI (predominantly white, upper middle class). The 4s were a completely Pakistani/Indian side, and these were not British Asians, rather the migrants/Taxi drivers. I understood club politics and the tensions between these two sides, at times the animosity was evident at club social events. There were clear barriers due to a drinking culture that wasn’t there in the 4s. There were other issues such as the fact that the 4s or most Asian cricketers in the club were only there to play cricket, not shower and drink afterwards and just go home. Whereas the 3s and most other members were in it to have a pint and socialise after the game, with families and dogs all at the club. Massive, massive cultural clashes.

Anyways, I didn’t try to fit in or be someone I wasn’t, however I was always looked after the seniors in the 3s due to a natural care they have towards juniors (u18s) because of Child welfare issues. They would take the time out to coach me, help me to arrive at away games and keep me engaged in the best way they could. I was never ignored, I was given a proper game every time and I was very happy to give my availability to play in the 3s every weekend. I knew that there were racial tensions between the whites and the non whites, but I can swear to God that I didn’t really feel unaccepted or unwelcome.

Now in regards to your question about a clear incident of racism, I wrote earlier that I remember seeing and hearing a senior club official (who may have been the club secretary at the time) make a racist remark to an Asian player who threw the ball up for catching practice, “it’s a bomb”. I wasn’t sure if I heard him say what I just heard, but he repeated this slur 3 or 4 times whilst the young white kids in training laughed and sniggered. This man was actually one of my friends at the club, and he was a great person to have a chat with on away games. He was the 2nd team vice captain and he would come out of his way during matches to come and congratulate me for scoring a 40 odd in the 3s or taking a few wickets.

The incident for me was shocking and also eye opening. Eye opening in the sense that it made me question my position as a 16 year old, educated British Asian in this club and who do I stand with or what these people see me as? Does this person who is a senior official really think that I am so naive, stupid to not understand the undertone of his joke? Or does he think that it is ok for him to do it and I should find it funny too? ‘Oh come on it’s only fun and banter’!

Now tell me brother, I was 16 at the time in 2006. What good would have come of it at the time? What good would come of it now if I report it to the ECB? My word against his? You have to believe me, I can’t make this up, but who else would believe me? What makes you or anyone else want to believe me and not the person who I am accusing of making the racist slur? What will you do once I have made the accusation? Put me through a rigorous and painful background check to see whether I am credible or if I am not a racist/hypocrite myself?
 
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