Alcohol consumption

srh · Jul 12, 2011

Some time ago I was reading an article of USA and in it a police officer said that alcohol consumption is the root cause of a lot of problems for the humans. Now I read this report which is saying that 'there is no level of alcohol consumption for which cancer risk is null.'

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2013956/How-alcohol-REALLY-safe-Scientists.html

It will come as bad news for people who enjoy a daily tipple - when it comes to reducing your risk of cancer, there is no such thing as a safe amount of alcohol.

French researchers said most nations including the UK and U.S. set their drink limit guidelines to deal with short-term effects of alcohol and were not designed to prevent chronic diseases.

Therefore while the UK's current daily alcohol guidelines (four units for men and three for women) discourage binge drinking and visits to the hospital, they do not take long-term health risks into account.

The team led by Paule Latino-Martel, of the French National Institute for Agricultural Research, said based on the evidence 'there is no level of alcohol consumption for which cancer risk is null.'

Writing in the Canadian Medical Association Journal, they said the WHO International Agency of Research on Cancer had found alcohol to be carcinogenic in both animals and humans.

The researchers added that a joint 2007 report of the World Cancer Research Fund and the American Institute for Cancer Research warned of the link between alcohol and cancers in the mouth, throat, esophagus, liver, colon-rectum and breast cancers.

Therefore they said current 'sensible drinking' limits are inadequate for the prevention of cancer and new international guidelines are needed.

'On the whole, alcohol is considered an avoidable risk factor for cancer incidence and, more generally, for the global burden of disease, Dr Latino-Martel and his co-authors said.

'Although guidelines are currently practical for health professionals and health authorities, the time has come to reconsider them using a scientific basis independent of any cultural and economic considerations and to discuss the eventuality of abandoning them,' they said.

'Considering our current knowledge of the relationship between alcohol consumption and cancer risk, national health authorities should be aware of the possible legal consequences of promoting drinking guidelines that allow consumers to believe that drinking at low or moderate levels is without risk.'

If alcohol consumption is so bad then is it possible to banned it world-wide?

jheenga · Jul 12, 2011

damn !!!

NJamal · Jul 12, 2011

This is the exact reason why it is termed as "Umm-ul-Khabais" mother of all evils in the holy Quran.

Usman · Jul 12, 2011

That's a nice idea but not exactly realistic. Where can I begin...

Firstly, for people worldwide, alcohol is the main way of socialising. Any government in the West that would even think of such an idea would be kicked out at the next election.

Secondly, Alcohol is big business. Any country thinking of such a ban would loose the support of massive multinational companies. Their lobbying power cannot be under estimated.

Thirdly, a ban could never work. People would just buy illegally. All that would do is offer even more dangerous forms of alcohol, because the market would be unregulated. Not to mention lost revenue for governments. This is currently the case with drugs, hence the arguments to legalise cannabis.

The reality is that everyone knows that Alcohol is bad for you, as is smoking and drug taking. At the end of the day, it's really an individual choice and it's not really something governments have much control over.

jheenga · Jul 12, 2011

NJamal said:
This is the exact reason why it is termed as "Umm-ul-Khabais" mother of all evils in the holy Quran.

Njamal dere are lot of things not considered rite but we do it. not advocating sharabkhori btw !!!

NJamal · Jul 12, 2011

jheenga said:
Njamal dere are lot of things not considered rite but we do it. not advocating sharabkhori btw !!!

You mean Sharabnoshi :sachin

jheenga · Jul 12, 2011

NJamal said:
You mean Sharabnoshi

Tum tung na karo mere ko . baal ki khaal nikolgey to pata he kya bolenge :asif

haizen · Jul 12, 2011

THE USA tried to ban it once...along came people like Al Capone

velu · Jul 12, 2011

I feel courageous after little bit of boozing :nehra

.

jheenga · Jul 12, 2011

velu said:
I feel courageous after little bit of boozing .

Sharabi kahin ka-shame on you :asif

srh · Jul 12, 2011

Usman said:
Firstly, for people worldwide, alcohol is the main way of socialising. Any government in the West that would even think of such an idea would be kicked out at the next election.

If people are educated about how dangerous alcohol is they will change their bad habbits. People can socialize on non-alcholic beer for example.

Usman said:
Secondly, Alcohol is big business. Any country thinking of such a ban would loose the support of massive multinational companies. Their lobbying power cannot be under estimated.

Businesses will change accordingly. A good Business will always change according to the current circumstances to stay in the market.

Usman said:
Thirdly, a ban could never work. People would just buy illegally. All that would do is offer even more dangerous forms of alcohol, because the market would be unregulated. Not to mention lost revenue for governments. This is currently the case with drugs, hence the arguments to legalise cannabis.

Thats a defeatist attitude. If something is bad for people you still would not banned it because you cannot impose the ban? If yes then the problem is you who is not imposing the ban properly and not if that thing is bad or good. That thing will remain bad; not controlling it properly does not make it good.

Robert · Jul 12, 2011

srh said:
Now I read this report which is saying that 'there is no level of alcohol consumption for which cancer risk is null.'

Odd. For years they were telling us that a glass of red wine with dinner reduced the risk of some cancers and heart disease.

If alcohol consumption is so bad then is it possible to banned it world-wide?

Totally unworkable. You'll never get it out of most cultures. The problem is that people like to get off their faces, and alcohol is the most predictable, socialised and ritualised of drugs.

srh · Jul 12, 2011

Robert said:
Odd. For years they were telling us that a glass of red wine with dinner reduced the risk of some cancers and heart disease.

Totally unworkable. You'll never get it out of most cultures. The problem is that people like to get off their faces, and alcohol is the most predictable, socialised and ritualised of drugs.

A joint 2007 report of the World Cancer Research Fund and the American Institute for Cancer Research warned of the link between alcohol and cancers in the mouth, throat, esophagus, liver, colon-rectum and breast cancers. So doctors start figuring it out couple of years ago.

Usman · Jul 12, 2011

srh said:
If people are educated about how dangerous alcohol is they will change their bad habbits. People can socialize on non-alcholic beer for example.

Ok I don't know where you live, but I can tell you that here in the UK I have seen all non-muslim British youths (and some 'muslim' ones too) drink to some extent or another. Even most 'responsible' adults like a glass of wine with dinner. You are talking here about changing the attitude of everybody in the world! Sorry but even the great Prophet (pbuh) could not do that.

You can tell people all you want to tell them about how bad alcohol is for them, but you're only ever going to succeed in changing a few people's minds. I mean everyone knows that Cola is very bad for you, yet it is the most popular drink in the world. Everyone knows that burgers lead to obesity, yet McDonalds and Burger King are two of the biggest companies in the world. So if you're going to ban alcohol, why stop there. Why not ban burgers and cola as well? The answer is because people have freedom of choice. I know Alcohol is terrible, you know that too, so we will avoid it. Other people don't think the same way. You can tell them all you want, but at the end of the day, it's their choice.

srh said:
Businesses will change accordingly. A good Business will always change according to the current circumstances to stay in the market.

Now this is just silly. A company that has the sole purpose of producing and selling alcohol cannot 'change according to the current circumstances'. These companies would have to be closed down. There would be no other way. Now you are not talking about Aqib's corner shop grocery store here that will just shut down without conseqences. As I said earlier, multinational corporations have massive lobbying power. A government in the West could not possibly close down the entire alcohol sector. And neither would they ever want to. These companies pay $$$ in the millions as tax.

srh said:
Thats a defeatist attitude. If something is bad for people you still would not banned it because you cannot impose the ban? If yes then the problem is you who is not imposing the ban properly and not if that thing is bad or good. That thing will remain bad; not controlling it properly does not make it good.

It's not a defeatist attitude, it is just the plain truth. Coke is a class A drug in the UK I believe. Yet even the most senior politicans from every party have taken it. Heck even Obama has taken it. The simple truth is that if you make something illegal, a black market will exist for it. I'm sure the police are trying to enforce the ban on Coke, but it is so widely available, it is physically impossible for them to do so. Alcohol is used even more widely than drugs. A ban would simply be a total fail.

chaiwala · Jul 12, 2011

Let people worry about their own health. Not everyone who consumes alcohol is an irresponsible drunkard.

In plus, who has the authority to impose a worldwide ban?

chaiwala · Jul 12, 2011

srh said:
If people are educated about how dangerous alcohol is they will change their bad habbits. People can socialize on non-alcholic beer for example.

LOL. Everyone knows alcohol is dangerous. It's not like people drink it for health related purposes. Most drink it because it makes socialization very enjoyable.

violet_may · Jul 12, 2011

Banning alcohol in these countries probably wouldn't work.

Just a thought though: If banning is based on the risk factors of cancer alone, they would also have to ban the elements which can contribute to obesity (because, it is one of the major associative factors involved with colon, kidney, and esophageal cancer).

KingKhanWC · Jul 13, 2011

Banning anything won't eradicate it but does send a strong message to the population that this is bad for you. A lot of people will stop if they know it's illegal and in the long run will make a massive improvement to society.

Striver · Jul 13, 2011

Alhumdulillah I don't drink because the Quran tells me and Prophet Muhammad pbuh emphasized the dangers of alcohol/wine

The message goes along the lines:
Peenay wala
Pilanay wala
Khareednay wala
Bechnay wala
Bananay wala
Jis k liye banaye gaye ho
Laad ker le janay wala
Jis k liye laad ker le jaye gaye... Etc

Sab Jahannum mein jaye gey.

Read it in Grade 10th Islamiyaat in Pakistan

Striver · Jul 13, 2011

As Njamal said earlier.

It is mother of all evils.

From my part time jobs in service industry from my Uni/college days, I still remember many incidents of drunkards. Totally out of their senses and acting as complete idiots.

Next morning they feel like ****. Puking in toiletes.

Cricketismylife · Jul 13, 2011

Striver said:
Alhumdulillah I don't drink because the Quran tells me and Prophet Muhammad pbuh emphasized the dangers of alcohol/wine

The message goes along the lines:
Peenay wala
Pilanay wala
Khareednay wala
Bechnay wala
Bananay wala
Jis k liye banaye gaye ho
Laad ker le janay wala
Jis k liye laad ker le jaye gaye... Etc

Sab Jahannum mein jaye gey.

Read it in Grade 10th Islamiyaat in Pakistan

good thought.

wat r the religious thoughts on drugs....the biggest problem in Pak?

:asif

Poison · Jul 13, 2011

srh said:
If people are educated about how dangerous alcohol is they will change their bad habbits. People can socialize on non-alcholic beer for example.

Businesses will change accordingly. A good Business will always change according to the current circumstances to stay in the market.

Thats a defeatist attitude. If something is bad for people you still would not banned it because you cannot impose the ban? If yes then the problem is you who is not imposing the ban properly and not if that thing is bad or good. That thing will remain bad; not controlling it properly does not make it good.

Does education on drugs make people not do drugs? Education on smoking stop people smoking? You didn't understand Usman's point, the main alcohol companies are so big that they could politically pressurise any attempt to get alcohol banned so as to stop it. Alcohol makes up a major part of the economy as well, no country in the Western world will ever ban it. It could not work.

BoiWonder · Jul 13, 2011

Cricketismylife said:
good thought.

wat r the religious thoughts on drugs....the biggest problem in Pak?

off topic: lol your avatar makes me laugh everytime i see it

justarslan · Jul 13, 2011

srh said:
Some time ago I was reading an article of USA and in it a police officer said that alcohol consumption is the root cause of a lot of problems for the humans. Now I read this report which is saying that 'there is no level of alcohol consumption for which cancer risk is null.'

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2013956/How-alcohol-REALLY-safe-Scientists.html

If alcohol consumption is so bad then is it possible to banned it world-wide?

Robert · Jul 13, 2011

KingKhanWC said:
Banning anything won't eradicate it but does send a strong message to the population that this is bad for you. A lot of people will stop if they know it's illegal and in the long run will make a massive improvement to society.

Didn't work in the US in the 1920s - it made society a good deal worse and they were forced to repeal the legalsation.

Better to have alcohol ritualised into the family as the French and Spanish do, then you get less drunken behaviour and less alcoholism.

Robert · Jul 13, 2011

Striver said:
As Njamal said earlier.

It is mother of all evils.

From my part time jobs in service industry from my Uni/college days, I still remember many incidents of drunkards. Totally out of their senses and acting as complete idiots.

Next morning they feel like ****. Puking in toiletes.

He he he..... yeah, been there, done that. Hardly 'evil' behaviour though - just a bit silly. Most people learn their limits and grow out of such silliness.

Itachi · Jul 13, 2011

Banning Alcohol cz it may lead to cancer? Naah, not a valid reason. But it also depends on whether you are just talking about consuming or banning as a product.

If only cancer is concerned, studies shows that mobile phone can lead to cancer, tombacco, cigarettes.... Hack, there are medicines which can lead to cancer.... Can you ban all of them on basis of this?

Alcohol is a non substituable product in pharmacology.

It's not only about business.... Its the need. Apart from drunk, cancer issue.... There are much valuable aspects of alcohol.... As a product.

Its like giving a gun to someone.... Either you can kill someone or you can defend yourself with it. The abuse depends on the individual.

Striver · Jul 13, 2011

Robert said:
He he he..... yeah, been there, done that. Hardly 'evil' behaviour though - just a bit silly. Most people learn their limits and grow out of such silliness.

May be you were just silly and not evil but I Personally know many true incidents of taxi drivers getting assaulted, not being paid, getting abused, and their taxis vendalized because the person was drunk.

And those drunks were of all ages.

And to mention the accidents caused by drinking and driving is just absurred.

Keith · Jul 13, 2011

Striver said:
May be you were just silly and not evil but I Personally know many true incidents of taxi drivers getting assaulted, not being paid, getting abused, and their taxis vendalized because the person was drunk.

And those drunks were of all ages.

And to mention the accidents caused by drinking and driving is just absurred.

We cannot blame the weapon, we have to blame the user. Alcohol, by itself, will not kill anyone.

In no way do I condone rude or abusive behaviour when under the influence of alcohol. If anybody is arrested for drinking and driving they should get a mandatory jail term (not suspended). If anybody kills somebody when under the influence of alcohol (vehicles) then they should be charged with murder. If anybody injures somebody when under the influence of alcohol (vehicles) then they should be charged with attempted murder.

Striver · Jul 13, 2011

Cricketismylife said:
good thought.

wat r the religious thoughts on drugs....the biggest problem in Pak?

In Pakistan, drugs isn't the biggest problem. People don't have stacks of cocaine or marijuana in theuir homes and there are no shops openly selling. Them.

However, people "many from Elite class" have bars in their homes and different imported wine collections displayed like trophies.

Alcohol and drugs, IMO, are positively correlated.

Here is one Islamic perspective on the use of drugs.

http://qa.sunnipath.com/issue_view.asp?HD=1&ID=3264&CATE=13

Sachin85 · Jul 13, 2011

If you see the full list of carcinogens and take it seriously, you'll hide under your bed and never come out!!

Striver · Jul 13, 2011

Keith said:
We cannot blame the weapon, we have to blame the user. Alcohol, by itself, will not kill anyone.

In no way do I condone rude or abusive behaviour when under the influence of alcohol. If anybody is arrested for drinking and driving they should get a mandatory jail term (not suspended). If anybody kills somebody when under the influence of alcohol (vehicles) then they should be charged with murder. If anybody injures somebody when under the influence of alcohol (vehicles) then they should be charged with attempted murder.

So can we blame the maker/provider of the weapon? As you used the word weapon: when sombody kills someone with a gun which was handed or sold to him by another person, would the seller of that gun or provider of that gun not be held accountable for being a link in the chain to killing of someone?

In one of my earlier posts "in urdu" I gave few categories of people who come in contact with Alcohol being in grave danger in the hereafter and that is ofcourse according to Islam.

Here is what Prophet Muhammad pbuh said:

Hadith - Al-Tirmidhi #2776, Narrated Anas ibn Malik *

Allah's Messenger cursed ten people in connection with wine: the wine-presser, the one who has it pressed, the one who drinks it, the one who conveys it, the one to whom it is conveyed, the one who serves it, the one who sells it, the one who benefits from the price paid for it, the one who buys it, and the one for whom it is bought.

And Allah swt knows best!

Keith · Jul 13, 2011

Striver said:
So can we blame the maker/provider of the weapon? As you used the word weapon: when sombody kills someone with a gun which was handed or sold to him by another person, would the seller of that gun or provider of that gun not be held accountable for being a link in the chain to killing of someone?

In one of my earlier posts "in urdu" I gave few categories of people who come in contact with Alcohol being in grave danger in the hereafter and that is ofcourse according to Islam.

Here is what Prophet Muhammad pbuh said:

Hadith - Al-Tirmidhi #2776, Narrated Anas ibn Malik *

Allah's Messenger cursed ten people in connection with wine: the wine-presser, the one who has it pressed, the one who drinks it, the one who conveys it, the one to whom it is conveyed, the one who serves it, the one who sells it, the one who benefits from the price paid for it, the one who buys it, and the one for whom it is bought.

And Allah swt knows best!

Thank you for the response! You are approaching it from a religious perspective however and that is fine, for your religion and beliefs (I respect same). I am approaching it from a different perspective.

Your last sentence is fine if you are Muslim!!! I am not so it does not apply to me.

The paragraph (bolded above) of your post is quite interesting. Never seen it before so I have learned something new, again!!! Which is why I enjoy this site so much!!!

Sachin85 · Jul 13, 2011

Striver said:
So can we blame the maker/provider of the weapon? As you used the word weapon: when sombody kills someone with a gun which was handed or sold to him by another person, would the seller of that gun or provider of that gun not be held accountable for being a link in the chain to killing of someone?

In one of my earlier posts "in urdu" I gave few categories of people who come in contact with Alcohol being in grave danger in the hereafter and that is ofcourse according to Islam.

Here is what Prophet Muhammad pbuh said:

Hadith - Al-Tirmidhi #2776, Narrated Anas ibn Malik *

Allah's Messenger cursed ten people in connection with wine: the wine-presser, the one who has it pressed, the one who drinks it, the one who conveys it, the one to whom it is conveyed, the one who serves it, the one who sells it, the one who benefits from the price paid for it, the one who buys it, and the one for whom it is bought.

And Allah swt knows best!

The whole world is cursed if you start tracking the money made from liquor!

Governments around the world collect a huge amount of money from liquor sales. So those countries are cursed. Then those countries in turn do business with and give aid to several countries around the world. So those countries are cursed too.

Striver · Jul 13, 2011

Sachin85 said:
The whole world is cursed if you start tracking the money made from liquor!

Governments around the world collect a huge amount of money from liquor sales. So those countries are cursed. Then those countries in turn do business with and give aid to several countries around the world. So those countries are cursed too.

As I highlighted and as Keith acknowledged, that's the stance/belief of Islam and Muslims regarding alcohol.

If you are a non-believer or non-muslim country, surely it holds little improtance to you because you don't believe in Islam.

So countries being cursed or not doesn't matter.

Striver · Jul 13, 2011

Keith said:
Thank you for the response! You are approaching it from a religious perspective however and that is fine, for your religion and beliefs (I respect same). I am approaching it from a different perspective.

Your last sentence is fine if you are Muslim!!! I am not so it does not apply to me.

The paragraph (bolded above) of your post is quite interesting. Never seen it before so I have learned something new, again!!! Which is why I enjoy this site so much!!!

Keith,

Even if we put aside the Religious perspective and let's see what are the contributions/benefits of Alcohol to the society or economy.

People often relate alcohol as means of socializing. But really why can't one socialize over a cup of tea or coffee which will eliminate one having to loose their senses. Now some will say one drink or two doesn't make you incapacitated, but how can you say that for everyone. Not everyone is as responsible as the other. Then people say, alcohol helps them to relax and socialize with others, generally referring to nighouts, club scenes and at bars etc. Often times, it leads to fornication, adultery and various diseases.

Then is the argument of revenue generated from sales of liquor and jobs being created but does it really more than the implications ie health impacts, strain on the health system, and crimes.

From a societal point of view, we see so many organizations working to promote No Drinking.

Striver · Jul 13, 2011

I have gone to school,college,uni here in Toronto. Have friends from many backgrounds ie Sikhs, Hindus, Christians, Athiests etc but had no difficulty what so ever socializing with them even though they drank.

Have had business meetings and successfull ones without using alcohol etc as means of business or socializing.

And alhumdulillah!

Itachi · Jul 13, 2011

Striver said:
So can we blame the maker/provider of the weapon? As you used the word weapon: when sombody kills someone with a gun which was handed or sold to him by another person, would the seller of that gun or provider of that gun not be held accountable for being a link in the chain to killing of someone?

not a valid arguement. Its like saying.... blame hitler's parents cz they brought hitler into the earth which lead to halocaust. A product is a product. How you use it, its your choice and you are the only one responsible for it if it abuses someone in someway

Striver · Jul 13, 2011

Itachi said:
not a valid arguement. Its like saying.... blame hitler's parents cz they brought hitler into the earth which lead to halocaust. A product is a product. How you use it, its your choice and you are the only one responsible for it if it abuses someone in someway

Wow. I applaud your analytical skills and counter example. So in a court of law the person who facilitates a murder, should not be held accountable?

A pilot who was ordered to drop nukes on poor innocent civillians just cuz his government ordered him to, is not responsible or doesn't have a choice for carrying out that order? Irregardless of what lead to the killing of innocent civillians as long as they are innocent.

Don't argue just for the sake of it.

Poison · Jul 13, 2011

Robert said:
He he he..... yeah, been there, done that. Hardly 'evil' behaviour though - just a bit silly. Most people learn their limits and grow out of such silliness.

Beyond silly ... give the emergency ward on a Friday or Saturday night a visit and see how many genuinely ill people are being kept out of hospital beds because of alcohol abuse.

Poison · Jul 13, 2011

Keith said:
We cannot blame the weapon, we have to blame the user. Alcohol, by itself, will not kill anyone.

Keithy you ain't one of those gun-toting American rednecks in disguise are you? :yk

DHONI183 · Jul 13, 2011

NJamal said:
This is the exact reason why it is termed as "Umm-ul-Khabais" mother of all evils in the holy Quran.

Jamal, can I have a reference please

?

Bengaluru · Jul 13, 2011

Sachin85 · Jul 13, 2011

Striver said:
As I highlighted and as Keith acknowledged, that's the stance/belief of Islam and Muslims regarding alcohol.

If you are a non-believer or non-muslim country, surely it holds little improtance to you because you don't believe in Islam.

So countries being cursed or not doesn't matter.

Striver, what I was trying to say is that Muslims and Islamic countries are not isolated from the money made from selling liquor. Muslims can stay away from liquor, but avoiding money made from selling liquor is not so simple.

The money made from the liquor business is all over the place. For example, Kingfisher airlines. Should a Muslim fly on their flights? It is owned by the UB group.

Itachi · Jul 13, 2011

Striver said:
Wow. I applaud your analytical skills and counter example. So in a court of law the person who facilitates a murder, should not be held accountable?

A pilot who was ordered to drop nukes on poor innocent civillians just cuz his government ordered him to, is not responsible or doesn't have a choice for carrying out that order? Irregardless of what lead to the killing of innocent civillians as long as they are innocent.

Don't argue just for the sake of it.

define "facilitate". If a person has a proper license and based on that license, the weapon holder sells the weapon, will he be held in court? No. Cz he went according to the procedures and gave the weapon. Now, its responsibily of the owner of the weapon to use it how he choses. He may use it to defend or kill somebody.... His choice nothing reverting back to the seller. Only in one case the seller would be guilty if he sold that weapon to a man who doesn't have a license.

In your 2nd example, ofcourse the pilot is responsible. But that isn't a chain reaction which you mentioned in earlier post. A chain reaction would be, blaming the scientist who created nucler power theory. Why they will be held responsible? Nuclear power is another energy source. Use it to create bomb or an energy plant, its your choice and you are the responsible for the outcome.

Not directly related to thread but just wanted to state my point.

Keith · Jul 13, 2011

Striver said:
Keith,

Even if we put aside the Religious perspective and let's see what are the contributions/benefits of Alcohol to the society or economy.

People often relate alcohol as means of socializing. But really why can't one socialize over a cup of tea or coffee which will eliminate one having to loose their senses. Now some will say one drink or two doesn't make you incapacitated, but how can you say that for everyone. Not everyone is as responsible as the other. Then people say, alcohol helps them to relax and socialize with others, generally referring to nighouts, club scenes and at bars etc. Often times, it leads to fornication, adultery and various diseases.

Then is the argument of revenue generated from sales of liquor and jobs being created but does it really more than the implications ie health impacts, strain on the health system, and crimes.

From a societal point of view, we see so many organizations working to promote No Drinking.

I very seldom, if ever, take any alcohol during the week (regardless of whether I am out for dinner, a business function etc.). Over the weekends however there is nothing better for me than to light a fire and crack a pint or 2. Never more than 2 whether I am at home or not.

I value the lives of my daughter and wife too much to put them into harms way by drinking and driving.

Keith · Jul 13, 2011

Poison said:
Keithy you ain't one of those gun-toting American rednecks in disguise are you?

Don't own a gun. Detest American policy. So nahhhh!!!! Quite the opposite actually!!!!

srh · Jul 13, 2011

Keith said:
We cannot blame the weapon, we have to blame the user. Alcohol, by itself, will not kill anyone.

not true according to the report in OP. Also drink driving has killed a lot of people. also consider child/women abuse because the man was drunk.

James · Jul 13, 2011

KingKhanWC said:
Banning anything won't eradicate it but does send a strong message to the population that this is bad for you. A lot of people will stop if they know it's illegal and in the long run will make a massive improvement to society.

Head out of the clouds please...

Itachi · Jul 13, 2011

srh said:
not true according to the report in OP. Also drink driving has killed a lot of people. also consider child/women abuse because the man was drunk.

lol. that's a valid point. We should blame the alcohol but not the man.... Same as sayin, after killing a man,"i was just the medium. The universe was the decider. It was just his time for his death."

KingKhanWC · Jul 13, 2011

Whippy said:
Head out of the clouds please...

Why, please explain? Why wouldn't banning something which has been classed as worse than heroin by government scientists be a bad thing?

Also Robert trying to use the example of 1920's America is :yk

James · Jul 13, 2011

KingKhanWC said:
Also Robert trying to use the example of 1920's America is

Nah it isn't I'm afraid, Robert's point was entirely relevant.

Alcohol has become too ingrained in global society for it to be abolished at any time during our own lifetimes and probably for much longer. Humanity has evolved with regards to alcohol in a very unique manner.

KingKhanWC · Jul 13, 2011

Whippy said:
Nah it isn't I'm afraid, Robert's point was entirely relevant.

Alcohol has become too ingrained in global society for it to be abolished at any time during our own lifetimes and probably for much longer. Humanity has evolved with regards to alcohol in a very unique manner.

That's obvious people won't accept a ban but that wasn't my point. It was a ban would benefit society.

Legal Eye · Jul 13, 2011

I do not drink, but I don't understand the stigma of just alcohol in Islam - I mean, there are other drugs that have a worse effect on behaviour, then there is smoking which can cause lung cancer.

Then then we have foods which are bad for people - shall we ban those too?

DHONI183 · Jul 13, 2011

DHONI183 said:
NJamal said:

This is the exact reason why it is termed as "Umm-ul-Khabais" mother of all evils in the holy Quran.

Click to expand...

Jamal, can I have a reference please?

Someone please answer this

.

jheenga · Jul 13, 2011

DHONI183 said:
Someone please answer this.

kia reference ? anything which makes you lose control is bad !!! daru does dat to you

Pakhtoon_Rules · Jul 13, 2011

Also did anyone notice, people consume alcohal stinks big time. Their breathe, OMG i cant even live a minute near some one drunk. Or may be they are drinking a particular kind of alcohal which stinks!

jheenga · Jul 13, 2011

Pakhtoon_Rules said:
Also did anyone notice, people consume alcohal stinks big time. Their breathe, OMG i cant even live a minute near some one drunk. Or may be they are drinking a particular kind of alcohal which stinks!

Why do you wanna smell aadmi's pakhtoon . just stay away !!!!

Pakhtoon_Rules · Jul 13, 2011

jheenga said:
Why do you wanna smell aadmi's pakhtoon . just stay away !!!!

So i should hold my breath all the time!

Robert · Jul 13, 2011

Striver said:
And to mention the accidents caused by drinking and driving is just absurred.

Sober drivers have accidents and kill people too - shall we therefore ban cars? Riding horses kills people. Shall we ban horse riding?

I'd throw the book at people who drink and drive, which is totally unacceptable to nearly all British people.

Striver said:
People often relate alcohol as means of socializing. But really why can't one socialize over a cup of tea or coffee which will eliminate one having to loose their senses.

Because tea or coffee are not euphoriants. Losing one's senses is the attraction. People like to get wasted.

Poison said:
Beyond silly ... give the emergency ward on a Friday or Saturday night a visit and see how many genuinely ill people are being kept out of hospital beds because of alcohol abuse.

1. On the occasion when I was hospitalised on a Friday night, I got a bed straight away.

2. If you ban alcohol, people will still turn up to the hospitals due to black-market-alcohol-related injuries.

Fallen King · Jul 14, 2011

Assalamu - Alaikum and Everyone, Here!

Simply banning Alcohol consumption will not stop people from consumption, as many people have raised the points about related to black markets, but by banning it, might send the message to the society why it's banned, and therefore, people will be forced to search for answers or will be forced to think it might not be healthy, hence, the ban, but the process of that will take very long to success. However, i have read several Hadeeth regarding Alcohol after Prophet Isa (PBUH) descends from the sky, and ban alcohol, and kill pigs to send the messages all over the globe. That's when the process of banning Alcohol, Drug, some dangerous food, will begin after the arrival of Prophet Isa (PBUH).

Meanwhile, this will continue for a while i am afraid, and because of this, will lead to numerous accidents almost everyday now, and abuse of, how do i put it delicately, humanity.

Car accidents caused by sobers, are minority, while majority are related to Alcohol, and at least, that's what i have observed in Canada.
From the teenagers with their alcohol consumption while driving do play bigger role for causing car accidents, hence the insurance is specified for the age of teenagers are expensive, and we are paying expensive insurance because of their stupidity. Then, punks or small time gangsters with their alcohol consumption, and nevertheless, some grown up guys even with their alcohol consumption unexpected.

Car accidents are rapidly on the rise because of one weapon that could have easily prevented from the rise of numerous accidents. Police always have to monitor and patrol with their police transportation around Kennedy-Dixie, and many major intersection are being monitored and patrolled because of rapid rise of car accidents, which basically links to alcohol, and especially in friday where chance of people drinking with alcohol consumption are very higher, and probably because partying always are encouraged in Friday to weekend, in Canada (Toronto).

Overall, Alcohol is not only bad for health, but also, it's linked to rapid rise of car accidents, crime rates, unfortunate in some certain humanity being abused, and go on...

As rightly pointed out by NJamal why it's mother of all evils in today world. It's also mentioned in Judaism and Christianity strongly.

And back to Striver, as he rightly point out of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH)'s direct quote from Hadeeth, "Allah's Messenger cursed ten people in connection with wine: the wine-presser, the one who has it pressed, the one who drinks it, the one who conveys it, the one to whom it is conveyed, the one who serves it, the one who sells it, the one who benefits from the price paid for it, the one who buys it, and the one for whom it is bought"

People will have hard time adjust to life without wines, as stepping out from daily life habit of drinking wines everyday, and i know it's not easy, but you are not doing it for yourself, and indeed, you are doing it for the community, for the family, and for the benefit of the nation. If you all don't buy, the company will be closed and bankrupted, and therefore, no more like wine shop/store/club...etc, and because of banning alcohol, will reduce to the growth of car accidents, crime rates, abuse of humanity....etc.

Legal Eye · Jul 14, 2011

It's a nonsense to say most car accidents are down to alcohol.

Just because someone has a drink doesn't make them drunk.

Itachi · Jul 14, 2011

MalikMohsin said:
Assalamu - Alaikum and Everyone, Here!

However, i have read several Hadeeth regarding Alcohol after Prophet Isa (PBUH) descends from the sky, and ban alcohol, and kill pigs to send the messages all over the globe.

Car accidents caused by sobers, are minority, while majority are related to Alcohol, and at least, that's what i have observed in Canada.
From the teenagers with their alcohol consumption while driving do play bigger role for causing car accidents,

Overall, Alcohol is not only bad for health, but also, it's linked to rapid rise of car accidents, crime rates, unfortunate in some certain humanity being abused, and go on...

can you explain the reason of killing of pigs?

I disagree with your overall post. In your case, its not alcohol that causing the accidents but unstablity in the new youth generation. This kind of behavior has more deeper roots than alcohol. If a part of young generation is getting distracted, is only because of alcohol? Don't think so.

On another point (last bolded part), if there is domestic violence, then blame the alcohol but not the person? Can alcohol be a soul reason of a husband beating a wife? Are you implying that.... "eh.... Its just due to alcohol. Ban the alcohol and violence will get vanish"?

DHONI183 · Jul 14, 2011

jheenga said:
kia reference ? anything which makes you lose control is bad !!! daru does dat to you

I agree but there is a difference between personal opinion and attributing words to the Qur´an (or any other holy scripture for that matter).

I am still waiting for a reference though

.

Robert · Jul 14, 2011

MalikMohsin said:
As rightly pointed out by NJamal why it's mother of all evils in today world. It's also mentioned in Judaism and Christianity strongly.

According to the New Testamant, Jesus turned water into wine.

srh · Jul 14, 2011

alcohol consumption has killed lot of people in this world. In US in 80s and 90s more than 50% people dying in taffic crashes were because of alcohol. Now that percentage is around 32% still huge.

DHONI183 · Jul 14, 2011

Look what, even Jonathan Trott, the cricketer, blames alcohol for his low strike-rate

......

http://www.espncricinfo.com/england/content/current/story/523273.html

velu · Jul 14, 2011

Robert said:
According to the New Testamant, Jesus turned water into wine.

Thats really cool :nehra

Robert · Jul 14, 2011

MalikMohsin said:
As rightly pointed out by NJamal why it's mother of all evils in today world.

Had a couple of pints last night. Relaxed me nicely after a hard day. Mrs Robert says I am a nicer, happier and more fun person when I have had a glass or two.....

- didn't throw up

- didn't murder anyone

- didn't rape anyone

- didn't crash my car

- wasn't responsible for an unwanted pregnancy

- didn't wake up in hospital or the gutter

- didn't lose my job

Sorry!

DHONI183 · Jul 14, 2011

NJamal said:
This is the exact reason why it is termed as "Umm-ul-Khabais" mother of all evils in the holy Quran.

Well right, just found out through some intensive researches that it is in fact a Hadith (tradition) from the collections and not anything from the Qur´an.

I would not like to accuse NJamal (who has just become a father) of anything, but we need to be amazingly careful whilst quoting anything from the Qur´an. I recently criticised Basit Ali as well for attributing a few words to it as well (http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/showpost.php?p=3615894&postcount=11).

Just think that there are many non-Muslim posters around here who should be presented with facts of our holy scripture.

With peace and kindness

!

srh · Jul 14, 2011

DHONI183 said:
Well right, just found out through some intensive researches that it is in fact a Hadith (tradition) from the collections and not anything from the Qur´an.

I would not like to accuse NJamal (who has just become a father) of anything, but we need to be amazingly careful whilst quoting anything from the Qur´an. I recently criticised Basit Ali as well for attributing a few words to it as well (http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/showpost.php?p=3615894&postcount=11).

Just think that there are many non-Muslim posters around here who should be presented with facts of our holy scripture.

With peace and kindness!

we? you and NJamal are from 2 different religions as far as I know.

Crazy_K · Jul 14, 2011

Alcohol is a poison.

As some teenagers say "Don't drink and drive, smoke and fly"

chaiwala · Jul 14, 2011

Robert said:
Had a couple of pints last night. Relaxed me nicely after a hard day. Mrs Robert says I am a nicer, happier and more fun person when I have had a glass or two.....

- didn't throw up

- didn't murder anyone

- didn't rape anyone

- didn't crash my car

- wasn't responsible for an unwanted pregnancy

- didn't wake up in hospital or the gutter

- didn't lose my job

Sorry!

LOL, seriously! I love when people who have never even taken a sip before try to comment on its effects. Exercise moderation, and know how much alcohol is in your drink. If you follow these principles, there will hardly ever be any problems.

James · Jul 14, 2011

Currently got a bottle of the new Stella Artois 'cidre' and some posh crisps at my desk, it's a great way to chill out on an evening. Alcohol is nice in moderation and not an absolute evil. Just my opinion.

Robert · Jul 14, 2011

Whippy said:
Currently got a bottle of the new Stella Artois 'cidre'

Not had that. How is it?

I've got a glass of 12-year single malt in front of me. Smoothly does it.

James · Jul 14, 2011

Got some Martell cognac in my cupboard, I bring it out now and again. Well nice!

The Stella cider is a beaut, tried it out the other night and just been to the shop for more. Best cider I've had, and I've had many! Always been partial to Stella though, not sure if that's a good thing or not :))

Robert · Jul 14, 2011

Whippy said:
The Stella cider is a beaut, tried it out the other night and just been to the shop for more. Best cider I've had, and I've had many! Always been partial to Stella though, not sure if that's a good thing or not

Cool. Must get some.

I had some micro-brewery cider. Very clear, not fizzy. 8% alcohol. Had to sip it - couldn't gulp it at all - just too strong. Tasted like apple juice. Dangerous stuff indeed.....

DHONI183 · Jul 15, 2011

srh said:
we? you and NJamal are from 2 different religions as far as I know.

Oh´

!

velu · Jul 15, 2011

Had 2 bottles of Haywards 5000, getting drowsy at 1am itself :sachin

chaiwala · Jul 15, 2011

velu said:
Had 2 bottles of Haywards 5000, getting drowsy at 1am itself

Indian beer, eh? Never heard of it before. Had Kingfisher once, bought from the local Indian store here :))

Not bad at all.

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