All The Prime Minister's Men - Al Jazeera investigation on Bangladeshi regime

[sweep_shot]

 

[Dios]

Great investigative journalism from Al Jazeera. Hasina exposed yet again.

 

[Dios]

Al Jazeera’s Investigative Unit (I-Unit) exposes how a former street mafia claims to have captured a state. The brother of Bangladesh’s army chief boasts that he can use police and paramilitary units to abduct rivals and earn millions in bribes.

Documents obtained by the I-Unit reveal how that head of the army helped his brother, a convicted killer, flee to Europe and evade justice. The investigation shows how the general aids his brother to purchase properties and businesses abroad, while moving money across European borders using a false passport.

Bangladesh’s most senior military officer, General Aziz Ahmed, has three brothers who were convicted of murdering a political rival to Prime Minister Sheikh Hasina in 1996. One brother served 20 years in jail and was recently given a highly unusual presidential pardon.

The I-Unit obtained secret phone recordings where General Ahmed describes how his brothers acted as personal security for Sheikh Hasina in the 1980s and 90s. The general describes an unbreakable bond of loyalty that has developed between his brothers and Bangladesh’s leader.

After their conviction, two other brothers fled abroad. The I-Unit tracked them down.

Haris Ahmed was living under a false identity in Europe. In undercover recordings, he reveals how huge profits are made from bribes for military contracts or senior posts in the Bangladesh police. It’s a system of graft that implicates senior officers in the nation’s police and government circles.

Haris claims he operates with the full support of the politician he used to protect: “Even the Prime Minister has said; ‘if Haris wants to do something let him do it. We will help’.”

I-Unit surveillance teams discovered the second fugitive brother, Anis Ahmed, after following General Aziz Ahmed during a trip to Malaysia. All four brothers gathered for a reunion, and diplomatic vehicles drove them for an evening spent at the Bangladesh High Commission in Kuala Lumpur.

As Shiekh Hasina’s government erodes democracy and arrests opponents, the investigation also reveals that Bangladesh has secretly purchased mobile phone intercept systems from Israel, a country it does not officially recognize. Israeli intelligence experts trained officers from Bangladesh’s DGFI (military intelligence service) in a secret location in Budapest. The contract exposes how Bangladesh hid the Israeli origins of the spyware by claiming it is manufactured in Hungary.

The Investigative Unit contacted all those involved – including Bangladesh’s Prime Minister, Home Minister, Inspector General, Police Commissioner and all four Ahmed Brothers - inviting them to respond to its findings. None provided a response to our inquiries.

https://network.aljazeera.net/pressroom/all-prime-minister’s-men

 

[JaDed]

The downfall has started, lets see how comes up next, wonder if Army would stage a coup ..

 

[Dios]

The downfall has started, lets see how comes up next, wonder if Army would stage a coup ..

This documentary exposes that the Army is now completely under Hasina's control and is doing her handiwork by eliminating the opposition.

 

[Napa]

Corruption is bad, and it would be nice to have a non-corrupt and efficient leader. However, more important than corruption for poor nations is a leader will deliver growth. It is better to have a leader who delivers 8.2% growth and who allegedly skims off 0.2% as bribes than a leader who delivers 1% growth and allegedly skims off nothing.



Let's not forget that Hasina's father, mother and siblings were murdered by their opponents and the only reason she escaped was that she happened to be in Europe at that time. To report that her followers murdered some opponents without giving the context is just bad journalism by Aljazeera. Of course, we can expect them to run similar exposees on the Qatar ruling family )

 

[GenericBrand]

Pretty sure this was an open secret for years, but obviously no one domestically would dare bring it up in the media.

 

[Gabbar Singh]

Not sure why so many South Asians have this romantic view about the army being above corruption. Scratch a bit below the surface and what we’re seeing here with the Bangladeshi Generals will also be going on elsewhere.

 

[srh]

Corruption is bad, and it would be nice to have a non-corrupt and efficient leader. However, more important than corruption for poor nations is a leader will deliver growth. It is better to have a leader who delivers 8.2% growth and who allegedly skims off 0.2% as bribes than a leader who delivers 1% growth and allegedly skims off nothing.

View attachment 106690

Let's not forget that Hasina's father, mother and siblings were murdered by their opponents and the only reason she escaped was that she happened to be in Europe at that time. To report that her followers murdered some opponents without giving the context is just bad journalism by Aljazeera. Of course, we can expect them to run similar exposees on the Qatar ruling family )

Aljazeera's investigative journalism is top-notch and highly rated.

 

[JaDed]

Aljazeera's investigative journalism is top-notch and highly rated.

Except against Qataris lol..

 

[JaDed]

Not sure why so many South Asians have this romantic view about the army being above corruption. Scratch a bit below the surface and what we’re seeing here with the Bangladeshi Generals will also be going on elsewhere.

Probably because average Joe doesn’t have to deal with Army’s corruption which is mostly at top level compared to that of politicians or Police who take bribes from lowest level.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Outstanding investigative work by AJ.

 

[JaDed]

This documentary exposes that the Army is now completely under Hasina's control and is doing her handiwork by eliminating the opposition.

Yeah but Army in any ASIAN country wields more power than politicians, plus to save their backs they can do a coup..

 

[sweep_shot]

Corruption is bad, and it would be nice to have a non-corrupt and efficient leader. However, more important than corruption for poor nations is a leader will deliver growth. It is better to have a leader who delivers 8.2% growth and who allegedly skims off 0.2% as bribes than a leader who delivers 1% growth and allegedly skims off nothing.

View attachment 106690

Let's not forget that Hasina's father, mother and siblings were murdered by their opponents and the only reason she escaped was that she happened to be in Europe at that time. To report that her followers murdered some opponents without giving the context is just bad journalism by Aljazeera. Of course, we can expect them to run similar exposees on the Qatar ruling family )

You have no idea what you are talking about.

Growth is not everything.

 

[sweep_shot]

Very good journalism from Al Jazeera.

 

[Napa]

You have no idea what you are talking about.

Growth is not everything.

Okay buddy, you are a saint and have risen above material desires. However, a man who was told that his children were infected by HIV because the doctor cannot afford clean syringes may have a different viewpoint. Google it if you like.

No more replies.

 

[Napa]

Yeah but Army in any ASIAN country wields more power than politicians, plus to save their backs they can do a coup..

Not sure why so many South Asians have this romantic view about the army being above corruption. Scratch a bit below the surface and what we’re seeing here with the Bangladeshi Generals will also be going on elsewhere.

Maybe "elsewhere", but not in India. I personally know many Brigadiers+ in the Indian Army/Air Force/Navy and they all lead upper middle class lives.

 

[saeedhk]

I watched this documentary minutes after it was released. The trailer was simply too good to miss such remarkable investigative journalism.

It is shocking to see how the army chief is personally involved in corruption and how the Hungary-based brother of the army chief takes 20% commission on all government contracts and ventures. The correspondences of the army chief are also included in the documentary which reveals that the army chief wants to build an empire before he retires in Europe. A must-watch!

 

[Bigboii]

Maybe "elsewhere", but not in India. I personally know many Brigadiers+ in the Indian Army/Air Force/Navy and they all lead upper middle class lives.

You really think indian army is not into corruption

Even US has it's fair share of at corruption scandals..

So it's kinda hard for me to believe that indian army is clean tbh with you

 

[Bigboii]

Admittedly except for that " Of course, we can expect them to run similar exposees on the Qatar ruling family" they're pretty good

Look at the maldives documentary [MENTION=142162]Napa[/MENTION]

 

[Napa]

You really think indian army is not into corruption

Even US has it's fair share of at corruption scandals..

So it's kinda hard for me to believe that indian army is clean tbh with you

There is "system corruption" and there is "individual corruption".

System corruption is when the Army General is given acres of land and becomes the CEO of a public sector company on retirement, and the Army runs various firms in industries like construction, bakeries etc. that operate with an unfair advantage over private firms.

Individual corruption is when an Army officer given out a contract receives kickbacks from the vendor.

India has individual corruption but not system corruption. System corruption holds back economic growth. Hasina has insulated the private sector sufficiently from the military to let it grow very fast. This is not something to debate, the results of Bangladesh's economic growth are there for all to see.

 

[Napa]

Admittedly except for that " Of course, we can expect them to run similar exposees on the Qatar ruling family" they're pretty good

Look at the maldives documentary [MENTION=142162]Napa[/MENTION]

Will do, thanks for the lead.

 

[ahsan17]

Corruption is bad, and it would be nice to have a non-corrupt and efficient leader. However, more important than corruption for poor nations is a leader will deliver growth. It is better to have a leader who delivers 8.2% growth and who allegedly skims off 0.2% as bribes than a leader who delivers 1% growth and allegedly skims off nothing.

View attachment 106690

Let's not forget that Hasina's father, mother and siblings were murdered by their opponents and the only reason she escaped was that she happened to be in Europe at that time. To report that her followers murdered some opponents without giving the context is just bad journalism by Aljazeera. Of course, we can expect them to run similar exposees on the Qatar ruling family )

You certainly wouldn't be saying this about Musharraf during his time the Pakistani economy basically tripled. Nearly all your posts seem to be agenda laden.

 

[Napa]

You certainly wouldn't be saying this about Musharraf during his time the Pakistani economy basically tripled. Nearly all your posts seem to be agenda laden.

Not sure about the GDP tripling. Musharraf was the Pres from 2001 to 2008, about 7 years. The growth rate according to World Bank during this period was about 5% pa, which would imply maybe a growth of 40% and not 200%.

https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.MKTP.KD.ZG?end=2008&locations=PK&start=2001



The issue is whether whatever growth occurred during Musharraf's time was sustainable? If there was Western FDI and modern industries created then he was doing good. If it was due to the US pumping some money into Pakistan in exchange of "collaboration in War on Terror" then it would not be sustainable.

Yes, I do have an agenda. I would like the Pakistani people to get rid of their Army's influence on domestic affairs. It will be good for Indian people, but it will be much better for the Pakistani people who will not see sustainable economic development till that happens.

 

[King-Misbah]

Not sure about the GDP tripling. Musharraf was the Pres from 2001 to 2008, about 7 years. The growth rate according to World Bank during this period was about 5% pa, which would imply maybe a growth of 40% and not 200%.

https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.MKTP.KD.ZG?end=2008&locations=PK&start=2001

View attachment 106692

The issue is whether whatever growth occurred during Musharraf's time was sustainable? If there was Western FDI and modern industries created then he was doing good. If it was due to the US pumping some money into Pakistan in exchange of "collaboration in War on Terror" then it would not be sustainable.

Yes, I do have an agenda. I would like the Pakistani people to get rid of their Army's influence on domestic affairs. It will be good for Indian people, but it will be much better for the Pakistani people who will not see sustainable economic development till that happens.

Who are you to poke your nose into Pakistans affairs? Keep your BJP agenda to yourself!

 

[Giannis]

Corruption is bad, and it would be nice to have a non-corrupt and efficient leader. However, more important than corruption for poor nations is a leader will deliver growth. It is better to have a leader who delivers 8.2% growth and who allegedly skims off 0.2% as bribes than a leader who delivers 1% growth and allegedly skims off nothing.

View attachment 106690

Let's not forget that Hasina's father, mother and siblings were murdered by their opponents and the only reason she escaped was that she happened to be in Europe at that time. To report that her followers murdered some opponents without giving the context is just bad journalism by Aljazeera. Of course, we can expect them to run similar exposees on the Qatar ruling family )

Yeah no, you're creating a false dichotomy.

 

[Giannis]

You certainly wouldn't be saying this about Musharraf during his time the Pakistani economy basically tripled. Nearly all your posts seem to be agenda laden.

Lol yeah I fell for his claim that he was Pakistani lmao, he's just another LARPer.

 

[Napa]

Yeah no, you're creating a false dichotomy.

If you can find a non-corrupt leader who can also deliver 6.5%+ GDP growth rates on a consistent basis, that would be heavenly. Hasina obviously feels she needs to keep the Army Generals happy given the Army butchered most of her family.

 

[Napa]

Lol yeah I fell for his claim that he was Pakistani lmao, he's just another LARPer.

Never claimed I was Pakistani.

 

[Extra_Cover]

This is top notch investigative work from Al Jazeera. I believe the local people of Bangladesh would have been aware of this situation however for someone outside this is quite a front cover story (an eyeopener).

It would be very interesting to see the fall outs from here. I'm sure the Bangladesh government and army would remain hush on this documentary however the interesting aspect could be the dealings or contracts in pipeline with companies and multi-nationals outside of Bangladesh.

With the army coup in Myanmar and this documentary on Bangladesh there is an increased focus on south asia channel this time.

 

[observer1]

Not seen it yet, but if any of the claims are true then it paints Hasina in a far worse light than she already is.

It seems there is a truce between Hasina and others with power for mutually beneficial treatment.

 

[sweep_shot]

[MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION]

Any insight? I would love to know what you have to say about this.

 

[sweep_shot]

Al Jazeera: Bangladesh’s Most Wanted Criminal Operating Network from Budapest

A Bangladeshi man wanted for murder fled to Budapest years ago and has been operating his criminal network from there ever since, a recent investigation by Al Jazeera reveals.

The ‘Ahmed clan’ continues to make money by colluding with Bangladesh’s security forces to extract bribes for state contracts and job positions while enjoying the support of the country’s prime minister Sheikh Hasina, an investigation by Al Jazeera found.

The criminal group is led by two brothers, Harris and Anis Ahmed, former bodyguards of the Prime Minister of Bangladesh. They were found guilty for their involvement in the 1996 murder of Mustafizur Rahman Mustafa, said to be a member of a rival political party.

Their brother is General Aziz Ahmed, head of the Bangladesh Army and close confidant of PM Hasina. After the murder, the two men fled from the authorities while their brother tried to cover up their criminal case.

Anis Ahmed is living in Kuala Lumpur, to where he escaped after his murder conviction was upheld in 2007.

The other brother Haris, who is still on the country’s list of most wanted criminals, fled to Budapest, and has been living there using the fake identity of Mohammad Hasan, Al Jazeera’s investigation discovered.

Leaked documents reveal how General Aziz used military officers to help Haris create the false identity, which was then used to buy properties around the world and set up businesses in Europe, the news outlet reports.

Despite being on Interpol’s most-wanted list for years, Haris bought downtown real estate, operated a clothing store, restaurants, and a currency exchange office in Budapest. According to Hungarian investigative journalism center Direkt36 which helped the investigation, Hungary’s Honorary Consul of Bangladesh also helped Haris to move to Hungary, although it is not clear whether he knew anything about the man’s background.

After the release of the investigation, Bangladesh’s Ministry of Foreign Affairs issued a statement describing Al Jazeera’s findings as a “smear campaign.” It also dismissed the claims that Haris Ahmed had any links to Prime Minister Sheikh Hasina or any other state institution.

Source: https://hungarytoday.hu/al-jazeera-bangladesh-most-wanted-criminal-budapest/.

 

[ahsan17]

Not sure about the GDP tripling. Musharraf was the Pres from 2001 to 2008, about 7 years. The growth rate according to World Bank during this period was about 5% pa, which would imply maybe a growth of 40% and not 200%.

https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.MKTP.KD.ZG?end=2008&locations=PK&start=2001

View attachment 106692

The issue is whether whatever growth occurred during Musharraf's time was sustainable? If there was Western FDI and modern industries created then he was doing good. If it was due to the US pumping some money into Pakistan in exchange of "collaboration in War on Terror" then it would not be sustainable.

Yes, I do have an agenda. I would like the Pakistani people to get rid of their Army's influence on domestic affairs. It will be good for Indian people, but it will be much better for the Pakistani people who will not see sustainable economic development till that happens.

He was in power from 1999 to 2008. GDP grew from around 60b to 180b during his time. Some of it was due to rebasing. Also I am sure you are aware of compounding growth.

 

[sweep_shot]

Shameful and shocking stuff.

Bangladesh bought mass spying equipment from Israeli company

Israeli-made spying tools were bought for Bangladesh intelligence service, despite the South Asian country not recognising Israel.

Bangladesh has bought Israeli-made surveillance equipment that can be used to monitor the mobile phones of hundreds of people simultaneously, an Al Jazeera investigation has found.

Documents and statements obtained by Al Jazeera’s Investigative Unit show that the Bangladesh army purchased the Israeli equipment in 2018 using a Bangkok-based middleman and Bangladeshi military intelligence officers were trained in Hungary by Israeli intelligence experts.

The contract Al Jazeera acquired lists the condition that both parties to the sale sign a non-disclosure agreement. It also lists the country of origin for the equipment as Hungary, although secret recordings by Al Jazeera show the middleman explicitly saying the equipment was from Israel.

“The contractor said no way that people in Bangladesh should know that this product comes from Israel,” Al Jazeera’s undercover source, Sami, whose name has been changed for his security, said.

Bangladesh has no diplomatic relations with Israel and trade with it is prohibited. It has the world’s fourth-largest Muslim population and does not allow its citizens to travel there, citing the military occupation of Palestinian lands. Officially, it has said it will not recognise Israel until there is an independent Palestinian state.

Ahmed clan
The revelation is part of the Al Jazeera investigation All the Prime Minister’s Men, which exposes the close relationship between a powerful Bangladeshi crime family, which the country’s head of the army belongs to, and Prime Minister Sheikh Hasina.

The investigation reveals that a key figure in the procurement of military equipment is Haris Ahmed, a convicted criminal and brother of the head of the Bangladesh army, Aziz Ahmed. Haris, who has now returned to Bangladesh, resettled in Hungary in 2015 using a fake passport when he was under an Interpol red notice and wanted in Bangladesh for a murder committed in 1996.

Do you have information on government corruption or want to share another tip? Contact Al Jazeera’s Investigative Unit on +974 5080 0207 (WhatsApp/Signal), or find other ways to reach out on our Tips page.

Haris is one of five brothers in the Ahmed family, four of whom have ties to criminal activity including murder. The fifth brother is Aziz, head of the army, who has close ties to Sheikh Hasina.

The investigation reveals how the Ahmed family has all the tools of the state at its disposal, including the commuting of sentences, obtaining false documents and the arrest of political opponents.

Al Jazeera managed to track Haris down and discovered he has been running several businesses across Europe with the help of his high-placed brother, who has been aware of Haris’s whereabouts and even met with him several times despite the fact Bangladesh law enforcement has an arrest warrant for him.

‘Very aggressive and intrusive’
The spyware contract involved paperwork that tried to disguise the true nature of the deal and involved front companies. It was, in effect, a deal between the Bangladesh military intelligence agency, the Directorate General of Forces Intelligence (DGFI), and PicSix, an Israel-based firm run by former Israeli intelligence agents. A Bangkok-based Irish national, James Moloney, acted as a middleman.

The contract for the acquisition of the P6 Intercept was signed one day after Aziz Ahmed, Haris’s brother, became head of the Bangladesh army.

The mobile phone monitoring systems Bangladesh bought, so-called IMSI-catchers, are often used by authorities to keep track of attendees during protests and demonstrations.

“It’s from Israel, so we don’t advertise that technology,” said Moloney, CEO of a Singapore-registered company called Sovereign Systems.

Earlier, Moloney had said that Sovereign Systems was a front for PicSix’s business in Asia, as many countries would not openly do business with an Israeli company.

“We put the cellular or WiFi interception on the website. We are very careful about our public profile,” Moloney continued.

“The technology is very aggressive and intrusive. You don’t want the public to know that you’re using that equipment.”

According to Sami, the Israeli intelligence experts illegally intercepted calls in Hungary in order to demonstrate the efficacy of the equipment to the DGFI officers.

‘Knowledge is power’
Eliot Bendinelli from Privacy International called the P6 Intercept a tool of mass surveillance, capable of tracing 200 to 300 mobile phones at the same time.

“It behaves like a cell tower, so all the phones in a certain area are going to connect to it and it will be capable of intercepting communications,” Bendinelli told Al Jazeera.

“Everything you’re doing on your phone, text messages, phone calls and websites you’re visiting are going to be intercepted,” he added. “This specific model is also able to interfere with communications, so it’s able to change the content of a text message.”

“Knowledge is power, so if you know where people will be meeting up and what they are planning to do, you have the power to act.”

Haris boasted to Al Jazeera’s source he had done exactly that, using information obtained through electronic surveillance to act and take out one of his rivals.

The Investigative Unit contacted all those involved, including the DGFI, Haris and Aziz Ahmed, as well as PicSix, inviting them to respond to its findings. They did not.

James Moloney told Al Jazeera that Sovereign Systems had not been the company that contracted with the Bangladeshi Army, but said nothing regarding his role as middleman in the illegal spyware deal.

On Monday, following the release of the film, Bangladesh’s foreign minister denied in an interview with the BBC that the country had ever bought mobile phone interception equipment from Israel.

Source: https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021...t-surveillance-equipment-from-israeli-company.

 

[Napa]

He was in power from 1999 to 2008. GDP grew from around 60b to 180b during his time. Some of it was due to rebasing. Also I am sure you are aware of compounding growth.

Compounding, what is that?

If you want to be precise, he overthrew Nawaz on Oct 12, 1999 and resigned as President on Aug 7, 2008, that is a period of about 8.9 years.

If your numbers are correct, then the growth rate during his rule would be (180/60)^(1/8.9) - 1 = 13.14% pa, every year for 8.9 years.

According to World Bank, Pakistan's growth rate never crossed 8% during Musharraf's time, let alone averaging 13%.



https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.MKTP.KD.ZG?end=2008&locations=PK&start=2000

You are very wrong, you should check your numbers.

By "rebasing" if you mean taking nominal rather than real numbers, that is not the way growth is spoken about. And anyway, your GDP numbers 60B and 180B are in dollars, and there wasn't much dollar inflation during this time.

 

[Heisenberg111]

Field Marshall Ayub Khan and Pervez Musharraf are two leaders, in whose tenure Pakistan did make significant progress.

 

[ahsan17]

Compounding, what is that?

If you want to be precise, he overthrew Nawaz on Oct 12, 1999 and resigned as President on Aug 7, 2008, that is a period of about 8.9 years.

If your numbers are correct, then the growth rate during his rule would be (180/60)^(1/8.9) - 1 = 13.14% pa, every year for 8.9 years.

According to World Bank, Pakistan's growth rate never crossed 8% during Musharraf's time, let alone averaging 13%.

View attachment 106710

https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.MKTP.KD.ZG?end=2008&locations=PK&start=2000

You are very wrong, you should check your numbers.

By "rebasing" if you mean taking nominal rather than real numbers, that is not the way growth is spoken about. And anyway, your GDP numbers 60B and 180B are in dollars, and there wasn't much dollar inflation during this time.

That's not how growth is calculated by any country. When people say economy double or tripled in a certain period, they are including inflation, rebasing, real growth, etc. That's how Modi was able to show growth in not too distant past too.

 

[Napa]

That's not how growth is calculated by any country. When people say economy double or tripled in a certain period, they are including inflation, rebasing, real growth, etc. That's how Modi was able to show growth in not too distant past too.

That's not how growth is calculated by any country??? Growth is not calculated by compounding the real growth rate??? Inflation is included in an economy's growth??? I assume you believe that Zimbabwe was the fastest growing economy ever as in nominal terms it achieved growth rates of a billion percent thanks to inflation of greater than a billion percent.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperinflation_in_Zimbabwe


Okay, you can keep believing whatever you wish to believe.

 

[ahsan17]

That's not how growth is calculated by any country??? Growth is not calculated by compounding the real growth rate??? Inflation is included in an economy's growth??? I assume you believe that Zimbabwe was the fastest growing economy ever as in nominal terms it achieved growth rates of a billion percent thanks to inflation of greater than a billion percent.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperinflation_in_Zimbabwe


Okay, you can keep believing whatever you wish to believe.

It looks like you read maybe 1 or 2 words from my post and took it out of context. I gave you example of India itself. Sounds like you can believe whatever you wish to.

 

[LongHorn]

It looks like you read maybe 1 or 2 words from my post and took it out of context. I gave you example of India itself. Sounds like you can believe whatever you wish to.

Hasina supporters will believe whatever they want to.

 

[Extra_Cover]

This thread is getting distracted with the analogy that corrupt but competent leaders are better than honest and incompetent leaders.

I find it quite amusing that this analogy holds any ground in the first place. Any type of corruption is breaking law (unless law allows corruption), therefore any corrupt person should be sentenced under the law covering corruption. Competence should not be a barrier for law to prevail. Regardless of competence if a law has declared someone corrupt then that person should not hold office.

Bottomline is competence can be metric for selecting suitable candidates for the right job, but corruption cannot be a metric. Whoever holds public office should not be corrupt.

 

[LongHorn]

The situation in BD is similar to BNP's infamous days when Tarek got a cut in everything

Now, just like back then, the only people praising the govt are those who

1) Work in govt, police or army
2) Are running businesses in collaboration with govt party members
3) are directly benefitting from the corruption

 

[ishtiaq_ctg]

The situation in BD is similar to BNP's infamous days when Tarek got a cut in everything

Now, just like back then, the only people praising the govt are those who

1) Work in govt, police or army
2) Are running businesses in collaboration with govt party members
3) are directly benefitting from the corruption

Only difference being the progression of Bangladesh in every field imaginable. Government is praised by most of the nations & international organizations for remarkable economical and social reforms and developments.

 

[ishtiaq_ctg]

This thread is getting distracted with the analogy that corrupt but competent leaders are better than honest and incompetent leaders.

I find it quite amusing that this analogy holds any ground in the first place. Any type of corruption is breaking law (unless law allows corruption), therefore any corrupt person should be sentenced under the law covering corruption. Competence should not be a barrier for law to prevail. Regardless of competence if a law has declared someone corrupt then that person should not hold office.

Bottomline is competence can be metric for selecting suitable candidates for the right job, but corruption cannot be a metric. Whoever holds public office should not be corrupt.

The concept of righteous leader is nothing but farce for developing countries. You wont find anyone like that in these part of the world. Better to have a pragmatic leader than a fake saint.

 

[Ashraful_Rox]

I posted before in 2018, 2019 and 2020 that Bangladesh is the New North Korea. We love our supreme leader

Ok I have written enough. Pray for me friends. If I don't come online I have been Awami Leagued

 

[JaDed]

BD’s politics seems more similar to India, BNP being BJP and Awami being CONGRESS.

Choose wisely.. you can see the situation in India from 2014 to compare what you want.

One major difference though is Army clout in BD.. much more than India.

 

[ishtiaq_ctg]

I posted before in 2018, 2019 and 2020 that Bangladesh is the New North Korea. We love our supreme leader

Ok I have written enough. Pray for me friends. If I don't come online I have been Awami Leagued

New level of hyperbole

 

[Bigboii]

My problem is not the corruption but the dictatorship the country through rn

That should be the biggest concern for Bangladeshi people

 

[LongHorn]

Only difference being the progression of Bangladesh in every field imaginable. Government is praised by most of the nations & international organizations for remarkable economical and social reforms and developments.

Progress in spite of govt, not because of it.
Social indicators in Bangladesh have been on the rise since the 90's. They would have improved regardless of who was in power

 

[Giannis]

I posted before in 2018, 2019 and 2020 that Bangladesh is the New North Korea. We love our supreme leader

Ok I have written enough. Pray for me friends. If I don't come online I have been Awami Leagued

They don't call it the Peoples Republic of Bangladesh for nothin'

 

[Bigboii]

They don't call it the Peoples Republic of Bangladesh for nothin'

)

 

[Napa]

The concept of righteous leader is nothing but farce for developing countries. You wont find anyone like that in these part of the world. Better to have a pragmatic leader than a fake saint.

I think people living comfortable lives are the ones who whine most about Hasina. They do not acknowledge how poverty impacts the mass of people negatively, so they discount the prosperity Hasina has brought to her country.

 

[Bigboii]

I think people living comfortable lives are the ones who whine most about Hasina. They do not acknowledge how poverty impacts the mass of people negatively, so they discount the prosperity Hasina has brought to her country.

Living under a civilian dictatorship worth the economic prosperity?

 

[Napa]

Living under a civilian dictatorship worth the economic prosperity?

Depends upon your situation, right?

If you have a comfortable house and servants in a poor country, then you care less about prosperity.

If you are a servant working in someone's house and your children got infected with HIV because you could not afford to take them to a doctor who used clean needles, then you care more about prosperity.

I think Hasina is a dictator, but nothing like the NK dictator. There seem to be occasional street protests in Bangladesh, and people post criticism on social media the sort which would lead to instant imprisonment or worse in NK.

 

[Bigboii]

Depends upon your situation, right?

If you have a comfortable house and servants in a poor country, then you care less about prosperity.

If you are a servant working in someone's house and your children got infected with HIV because you could not afford to take them to a doctor who used clean needles, then you care more about prosperity.

I think Hasina is a dictator, but nothing like the NK dictator. There seem to be occasional street protests in Bangladesh, and people post criticism on social media the sort which would lead to instant imprisonment or worse in NK.

I mean we should actually stand up and applaud CCP cause they were in abjuct poverty and after the CCP everything changed for the better economically

I would ask india to actually adopt thier authoritarian methods to equal china and it's prosperity cause

Economically
China is much better than india and I can also list you so many indian sob stories related to poverty to justify a ruler with Iron fist and tell you atleast he is not a NK dictator

Xi is definitely better than NK in terms of freedoms (cause that's the benchmark I guess) than we should all.adopt the Chinese system and sing kumba ya and live happily ever after

Hell Russia grew stronger under Putin before the sanctions
There are occasional protests thier also some people use internet to criticize Putin

So you would accept a Putin or a Xi to help India grow faster at the speed china grew just a couple of years ago in order to alleviate poverty?

 

[sweep_shot]

Progress in spite of govt, not because of it.
Social indicators in Bangladesh have been on the rise since the 90's. They would have improved regardless of who was in power

I agree with this post completely.

A lot of the progresses have nothing to do with government.

 

[sweep_shot]

Depends upon your situation, right?

If you have a comfortable house and servants in a poor country, then you care less about prosperity.

If you are a servant working in someone's house and your children got infected with HIV because you could not afford to take them to a doctor who used clean needles, then you care more about prosperity.

I think Hasina is a dictator, but nothing like the NK dictator. There seem to be occasional street protests in Bangladesh, and people post criticism on social media the sort which would lead to instant imprisonment or worse in NK.

I think you are probably writing based on what you read from Hasina-approved newspapers. Reality is much different.

 

[ahsan17]

I mean we should actually stand up and applaud CCP cause they were in abjuct poverty and after the CCP everything changed for the better economically

I would ask india to actually adopt thier authoritarian methods to equal china and it's prosperity cause

Economically
China is much better than india and I can also list you so many indian sob stories related to poverty to justify a ruler with Iron fist and tell you atleast he is not a NK dictator

Xi is definitely better than NK in terms of freedoms (cause that's the benchmark I guess) than we should all.adopt the Chinese system and sing kumba ya and live happily ever after

Hell Russia grew stronger under Putin before the sanctions
There are occasional protests thier also some people use internet to criticize Putin

So you would accept a Putin or a Xi to help India grow faster at the speed china grew just a couple of years ago in order to alleviate poverty?

He will likely have different goal posts depending on what suits his agenda.

 

[Giannis]

I mean we should actually stand up and applaud CCP cause they were in abjuct poverty and after the CCP everything changed for the better economically

I would ask india to actually adopt thier authoritarian methods to equal china and it's prosperity cause

Economically
China is much better than india and I can also list you so many indian sob stories related to poverty to justify a ruler with Iron fist and tell you atleast he is not a NK dictator

Xi is definitely better than NK in terms of freedoms (cause that's the benchmark I guess) than we should all.adopt the Chinese system and sing kumba ya and live happily ever after

Hell Russia grew stronger under Putin before the sanctions
There are occasional protests thier also some people use internet to criticize Putin

So you would accept a Putin or a Xi to help India grow faster at the speed china grew just a couple of years ago in order to alleviate poverty?

No, you really don't want India of all countries and that too under the RSS-BJP to take a more authoritarian approach than it is already, you're lowkey and inadvertently asking for genocide. Authoritarianism won't work in a multi-ethnic and multi-religious country like India. China which is 90% Han and non-religious/Buddhist/Daoist and Bangladesh which is 90% Muslim and 100% Bengali can afford to have a one party state with a strongman type leader. This also why Turkey can tolerate leaders like Erdogan as they're over 90% Turkish and Muslim.

 

[Bigboii]

No, you really don't want India of all countries and that too under the RSS-BJP to take a more authoritarian approach than it is already, you're lowkey and inadvertently asking for genocide. Authoritarianism won't work in a multi-ethnic and multi-religious country like India. China which is 90% Han and non-religious/Buddhist/Daoist and Bangladesh which is 90% Muslim and 100% Bengali can afford to have a one party state with a strongman type leader. This also why Turkey can tolerate leaders like Erdogan as they're over 90% Turkish and Muslim.

of course I dont want strong man I dont think they are good for any country period
theyre short term jugaroo fixes nothing else In the long term theyre more harmful than benifitiol

 

[Bigboii]

He will likely have different goal posts depending on what suits his agenda.

I agree with him on a lot of issues except for the democracy part...

 

[Ashraful_Rox]

Guys, journalists were kidnapped if they published anything negative about our supreme leader and if you think there is freedom of speech in the People's Republic of Bangladesh, you are fooling yourself. The army takes 15 - 20% commission if you want to establish any big business not to mention the bribes you need to give to government officials is absurd.

I love our supreme leader, heil Hasina.

 

[Bigboii]

Guys, journalists were kidnapped if they published anything negative about our supreme leader and if you think there is freedom of speech in the People's Republic of Bangladesh, you are fooling yourself. The army takes 15 - 20% commission if you want to establish any big business not to mention the bribes you need to give to government officials is absurd.

I love our supreme leader, heil Hasina.

That means army is still powerful?
Cause why should they get the commotion and not the gov party

Or atleast why are they getting the bigger amount shouldn't the powerful party IE Haseena be getting the bigger piece of the pie

 

[Bigboii]

BD’s politics seems more similar to India, BNP being BJP and Awami being CONGRESS.

Choose wisely.. you can see the situation in India from 2014 to compare what you want.

One major difference though is Army clout in BD.. much more than India.

One interesting things ng I noticed in most countries RW politics is associated with strong nationalism but in Canada and Ban it's different

In Canada con want deeper ties with US but LW want "canadian" values

In Ban LW are hardcore bangali nationalists unlike the RW who are Pan-Islamic believing in stronger ties with Pakistan due to it's postion as an Islamic country in SA not only that it extends to whole ummah and the Islamic countries believing that ban with it's large Muslim pop, should play an active role in Islamic world

 

[LongHorn]

Guys, journalists were kidnapped if they published anything negative about our supreme leader and if you think there is freedom of speech in the People's Republic of Bangladesh, you are fooling yourself. .

They get kidnapped if they publish negative stuff, if they investigate too much they are slaughtered in their own homes.....

If a girl gets raped by someone powerful connected to government, and the parents make too much noise, they get threats to withdraw the case and nothing happens.

 

[Ashraful_Rox]

That means army is still powerful?
Cause why should they get the commotion and not the gov party

Or atleast why are they getting the bigger amount shouldn't the powerful party IE Haseena be getting the bigger piece of the pie

Army is well fed by our supreme leader.

 

[Ashraful_Rox]

They get kidnapped if they publish negative stuff, if they investigate too much they are slaughtered in their own homes.....

If a girl gets raped by someone powerful connected to government, and the parents make too much noise, they get threats to withdraw the case and nothing happens.

Exactly, and then we have some hardcore awami league fans here who defend anything about Bangladesh. Yes, I love my country but if i point out what's wrong I am labeled as a 'rajakar' (traitor). The ongoing rape by awami league goons hasn't stopped and no one is doing anything about it.

And people talk about gdp and try to hide the crime rates in Bangladesh. Time to stand up and bring massive change in Bangladesh, we need a new supreme leader

 

[smkk]

[MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION]

Any insight? I would love to know what you have to say about this.

Let's not ask or force anyone to give their views in this thread. If anyone wants to add anything willingly or keep their silence, then let's honour that.

We must not forget that, even though many Bangladeshi people in this thread are staying abroad, but their families or close relatives are in BD, who are susceptible to harassment.

 

[ishtiaq_ctg]

Progress in spite of govt, not because of it.
Social indicators in Bangladesh have been on the rise since the 90's. They would have improved regardless of who was in power

Bangladesh govt. still acts as the greatest factor in the nation's economy. BD model of economy wont function without the active role of the government. You either have no clue about the rural development of the country or a typical pessimist.

 

[Ashraful_Rox]

Let's not ask or force anyone to give their views in this thread. If anyone wants to add anything willingly or keep their silence, then let's honour that.

We must not forget that, even though many Bangladeshi people in this thread are staying abroad, but their families or close relatives are in BD, who are susceptible to harassment.

Yes exactly, brothers please respect our safety concerns. This is my last post in this thread before I go missing

 

[LongHorn]

Bangladesh govt. still acts as the greatest factor in the nation's economy. BD model of economy wont function without the active role of the government. You either have no clue about the rural development of the country or a typical pessimist.

Your way of thinking is that it is ok for AL goons and police to rape schoolgirls, or abduct critics, or kill Madrasa students as long as some rural development is done

 

[LongHorn]

Let's not ask or force anyone to give their views in this thread. If anyone wants to add anything willingly or keep their silence, then let's honour that.

We must not forget that, even though many Bangladeshi people in this thread are staying abroad, but their families or close relatives are in BD, who are susceptible to harassment.

That itself should be a wakeup call for AL sycophants but it is not, because they are complicit in that harassment
Bangladesh used to be the one country in subcontinent with greatest freedom of political expression (90s, including AL's first reign from 96 - 01)

Now it has become the worst, with hordes of its sycophants and those who benefit form the status quo supporting the oppression in the name of "GDP growth"

 

[sweep_shot]

Your way of thinking is that it is ok for AL goons and police to rape schoolgirls, or abduct critics, or kill Madrasa students as long as some rural development is done

Well said.

What's the point of development if freedom is missing?

 

[ishtiaq_ctg]

Your way of thinking is that it is ok for AL goons and police to rape schoolgirls, or abduct critics, or kill Madrasa students as long as some rural development is done

You're severely misled by the anti government propaganda.

 

[Lonewarrior]

UN calls for Bangladesh army probe after Al Jazeera investigation .

 

[sweep_shot]

UN calls for Bangladesh army probe after Al Jazeera investigation .

I welcome and support UN's probe.

 

[Napa]

I mean we should actually stand up and applaud CCP cause they were in abjuct poverty and after the CCP everything changed for the better economically

I would ask india to actually adopt thier authoritarian methods to equal china and it's prosperity cause

Economically
China is much better than india and I can also list you so many indian sob stories related to poverty to justify a ruler with Iron fist and tell you atleast he is not a NK dictator

Xi is definitely better than NK in terms of freedoms (cause that's the benchmark I guess) than we should all.adopt the Chinese system and sing kumba ya and live happily ever after

Hell Russia grew stronger under Putin before the sanctions
There are occasional protests thier also some people use internet to criticize Putin

So you would accept a Putin or a Xi to help India grow faster at the speed china grew just a couple of years ago in order to alleviate poverty?

My point is that civilian freedoms are important, and so is economic development.

If you can find a leader who gives you both, then that's great.

But any leader should be judged on both dimensions. Just saying a leader is terrible because she has curbed civilian freedoms when there is not alternative available who will deliver growth is wrong.

 

[LongHorn]

My point is that civilian freedoms are important, and so is economic development.

If you can find a leader who gives you both, then that's great.

But any leader should be judged on both dimensions. Just saying a leader is terrible because she has curbed civilian freedoms when there is not alternative available who will deliver growth is wrong.

Its not about civilian freedom in a western sort of way. It is about safety of life and some freedom of expression.

Journalists should not face being kidnapped for not praising the government
People who rape girls should not be untouched because of their political connections

Making it about freedom makes it sound like anti BAL Bangladeshis want a western sort of democracy where they can say anything they want

Nope, we just want govt death squads and student wings and political goons to not be able to kill opponents with impunity

 

[Napa]

Its not about civilian freedom in a western sort of way. It is about safety of life and some freedom of expression.

Journalists should not face being kidnapped for not praising the government
People who rape girls should not be untouched because of their political connections

Making it about freedom makes it sound like anti BAL Bangladeshis want a western sort of democracy where they can say anything they want

Nope, we just want govt death squads and student wings and political goons to not be able to kill opponents with impunity

The sort of things you describe, if they are common in Bangladesh then it is very unfortunate. Maybe Hasina, who had her family killed by the Army, thinks she is fighting fire with fire, but she should not encourage such violence.

Could have been worse, all the things you describe could have been happening, and there could also have been no economic development as we see in countries dominated by the military.