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Angelo Mathews vs Virat Kohli - Who is the better Test Batsman?

Same mode of dismissals, lack of feet movement followed by repeated lapse of concentration..has been a thorough disappointment on the tour. While Mathews turned his test batting around on Eng tour, Kohli seems to have regressed, not focused on the field either. Someone needs to get him back on track before he totally destroys himself.
 
Unlike Kohli, Mathews bats with Kulesekara, Malinga, Herath and Thirimanne. Mathews bats under pressure knowing if he or the batsmen batting with him fall, SL's tail will be exposed.
 
thivaakar said:
Unlike Kohli, Mathews bats with Kulesekara, Malinga, Herath and Thirimanne. Mathews bats under pressure knowing if he or the batsmen batting with him fall, SL's tail will be exposed.
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If that is the benchmark, then Misbah should be the best batsmen ever because he has a team of no-hopers around him for ages who fall like a pack of cards.
 
Straight_Drive said:
Kohli is out of form, mathews is in form, of course this comparison is gonna be tilted in mathews favour at the moment....but kohli is a future ATG whereas mathews would dwindle away after his form is over ,so in the long run this is an absurd comparison
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Why do you think that Kohli will become ATG and Mathews would dwindle ? What if Kohli crumbles and Mathews doesn't ?
 
Topic should be postponed till Mathews is without Mahela and Sangakara in near future and then we can come back to this debate,by which time I assume comparison will be more fairer between Captain Kohli and Captain Mathews Test Batting.
Right now it's Mathews , but he has an elite company which Kohli hasn't.
 
Yes because Jaya and Sanga do all the hard work, score all the tough runs and later donate them to Mathews in charity.
 
The only reason anyone has given for saying Kohli will be a better test cricketer than Matthews is because he is Indian.
 
vandokkum said:
The only reason anyone has given for saying Kohli will be a better test cricketer than Matthews is because he is Indian.
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Err because he decimates attacks for fun in ODI's and averages 50 plus ? ( not to mention a part of some of epic inhumane chases).

Also a extremely good T20 player who paces his innings well...

What makes you think he will consistently flop in tests and be less than Matthews?
 
Glen77 said:
because Kholi is playing for India
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or May be cos hes already one of the best ODI batsever at the age of 25 ? Am sure Viv Richards was smoking when he said that Virat reminds of himself .
The OP is one bitter poster
 
It has to be Mathews right now.
He has done so well in Tests, while Kohli has been good, but can't touch Mathews as of yet.
 
KPfan said:
Matthews >>>>>> overrated Kohli
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How does an overrated guy have test centuries in almost every country he has played so far and also manages to hit an average of 50 plus while he chases games for fun In ODIs...

Honestly, the amount of delusion in this thread is breathtaking.

It's way too early for a comparison anyways, when Matthews averaging 20s in England and South Africa.

And here comes a guy saying Kohli is the one overrated.
 
Dr_Bassim said:
How does an overrated guy have test centuries in almost every country he has played so far and also manages to hit an average of 50 plus while he chases games for fun In ODIs...

Honestly, the amount of delusion in this thread is breathtaking.

It's way too early for a comparison anyways, when Matthews averaging 20s in England and South Africa.

And here comes a guy saying Kohli is the one overrated.
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It is context too Kohli has a lot of dead rubber runs when the series or game is dead and there is less pressure.
 
Adil_94 said:
It is context too Kohli has a lot of dead rubber runs when the series or game is dead and there is less pressure.
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Which is why this thread is premature.

Kohli needs to play enough tests and Matthews needs a few runs outside of Sri Lanka before comparisons can start.
 
Adil_94 said:
It is context too Kohli has a lot of dead rubber runs when the series or game is dead and there is less pressure.
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as i said earlier....still too early to compare ...at the moment mathews is looking good but kohli is still 25....he is too good a player to fail in test...he is an ATG material with 100s at perth jo'berg and NZ where as mathews averages in 20s in aus and sa(or eng..didn't check)
 
Straight_Drive said:
as i said earlier....still too early to compare ...at the moment mathews is looking good but kohli is still 25....he is too good a player to fail in test...he is an ATG material with 100s at perth jo'berg and NZ where as mathews averages in 20s in aus and sa(or eng..didn't check)
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If you read my earlier posts i said on current form Mathews is better but i think Kohli will overtake him. Kohli is a special player but for me he hasnt lived up to his potential yet.
 
Matthews clearly better ATM. Kohli is going through a rut but will be back soon.

Haven't yet figured out if Kohli is a 50+ averaging batsman in tests though, he might end up like Dhoni, ATG at LOI level but much more inferior in tests.
 
Bilal7 said:
Matthews clearly better ATM. Kohli is going through a rut but will be back soon.

Haven't yet figured out if Kohli is a 50+ averaging batsman in tests though, he might end up like Dhoni, ATG at LOI level but much more inferior in tests.
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He will be a very good test player. Don't know if an ATG or not but he might just be a late bloomer. Dhoni on the other hand is a fighter but his ghastly technique is always an impediment in tests.
 
leatherface58 said:
He will be a very good test player. Don't know if an ATG or not but he might just be a late bloomer. Dhoni on the other hand is a fighter but his ghastly technique is always an impediment in tests.
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Yeah, fair enough. Has lots of time on his hands, easy to forget that he's in his mid-20's.
 
cricketindiafan said:
Same mode of dismissals, lack of feet movement followed by repeated lapse of concentration..has been a thorough disappointment on the tour. While Mathews turned his test batting around on Eng tour, Kohli seems to have regressed, not focused on the field either. Someone needs to get him back on track before he totally destroys himself.
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Wrong. Mathews turned his batting around in the UAE against Pakistan. He was player of the series and outscored every player on each side.



thivaakar said:
Unlike Kohli, Mathews bats with Kulesekara, Malinga, Herath and Thirimanne. Mathews bats under pressure knowing if he or the batsmen batting with him fall, SL's tail will be exposed.
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I love how you put Thirimanne into that list. Don't forget SL has a weaker tail in the Test format, where Mathews averages even more so Tests is his best format.

Dr_Bassim said:
If that is the benchmark, then Misbah should be the best batsmen ever because he has a team of no-hopers around him for ages who fall like a pack of cards.
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:)))




last_knight said:
Topic should be postponed till Mathews is without Mahela and Sangakara in near future and then we can come back to this debate,by which time I assume comparison will be more fairer between Captain Kohli and Captain Mathews Test Batting.
Right now it's Mathews , but he has an elite company which Kohli hasn't.
Click to expand...


Mathews's captaincy is helped by Sanga and Mahela in the team. I don't see how they help with his batting. We're only talking about Test batting here.




Dr_Bassim said:
Err because he decimates attacks for fun in ODI's and averages 50 plus ? ( not to mention a part of some of epic inhumane chases).

Also a extremely good T20 player who paces his innings well...

What makes you think he will consistently flop in tests and be less than Matthews?
Click to expand...

We're talking about Tests. Like I said, you're talking about his limited overs accolades. Not all players are capable of transforming their ODI and T20 form into Tests.






Dr_Bassim said:
How does an overrated guy have test centuries in almost every country he has played so far and also manages to hit an average of 50 plus while he chases games for fun In ODIs...

Honestly, the amount of delusion in this thread is breathtaking.

It's way too early for a comparison anyways, when Matthews averaging 20s in England and South Africa.

And here comes a guy saying Kohli is the one overrated.
Click to expand...

Have you forgotten the knocks Mathews played for SL? If it weren't for him, the 1st Test would not have been a draw. He fought tooth and nail for it in tough conditions. It was one of the best knocks I saw from him since he took over captaincy. Then he hit a century in the 2nd Test to win SL the series. Mathews is a match winner. Kohli is not in this format.




Straight_Drive said:
as i said earlier....still too early to compare ...at the moment mathews is looking good but kohli is still 25....he is too good a player to fail in test...he is an ATG material with 100s at perth jo'berg and NZ where as mathews averages in 20s in aus and sa(or eng..didn't check)
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How can Mathews not continue this fine form? He's already averaging higher than Kohli. There's only two years difference with the added pressure of captaincy as well.
 
Kiri said:
How can Mathews not continue this fine form? He's already averaging higher than Kohli. There's only two years difference with the added pressure of captaincy as well.
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here's mathews performance after 26 tests and a couple of years ago
Untitled.jpg
kohli already has 6 centuries and averages 42 after 26 tests....a couple of years make a lot of difference ....Kohli is a class act and a much better batsman as can be seen from the above stats....just because mathews hit a good patch doesn't make him a better player...kohli's class can be seen from his odi dominance and those runs have come at the top of the order
 
Straight_Drive said:
here's mathews performance after 26 tests and a couple of years ago
View attachment 47264
kohli already has 6 centuries and averages 42 after 26 tests....a couple of years make a lot of difference ....Kohli is a class act and a much better batsman as can be seen from the above stats....just because mathews hit a good patch doesn't make him a better player...kohli's class can be seen from his odi dominance and those runs have come at the top of the order
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You can make a case for top order but don't forget Mathews has been batting with the tail. Trying to shield them and farm the strike while also striving to get the maximum number of runs.

What makes you think Mathews can't continue his form? He's beasting WITH the captaincy. Somehow, it's just turned a switch or gear in his brain.
 
Kiri said:
You can make a case for top order but don't forget Mathews has been batting with the tail. Trying to shield them and farm the strike while also striving to get the maximum number of runs.

What makes you think Mathews can't continue his form? He's beasting WITH the captaincy. Somehow, it's just turned a switch or gear in his brain.
Click to expand...
if he is batting lower down the order he should have more not outs and thus higher average....don't make excuses
...kohli is a prodigy (25 international centuries already).......mathews might be good enough for sri lanka...might even become srilankan great....by not continuing his form i meant won't be able to compete with kohli....he might still be good...this comparison is faulty at the moment cause he is in good form while kohli is not....comparing them at same age and same no. test gives you better idea
 
Straight_Drive said:
if he is batting lower down the order he should have more not outs and thus higher average....don't make excuses
...kohli is a prodigy (25 international centuries already).......mathews might be good enough for sri lanka...might even become srilankan great....by not continuing his form i meant won't be able to compete with kohli....he might still be good...this comparison is faulty at the moment cause he is in good form while kohli is not....comparing them at same age and same no. test gives you better idea
Click to expand...

You have a point. Kohli currently has around half the experience Mathews has in terms of number of matches played. However, he did become captain at Kohli's current age and has now averaged higher than 60 as captain. Captaincy in itself is a huge burden.
 
Like it or not but all signs indicate that Mathews will continue to be a better Test Batsman than Kohli.

Kohli can score gazillions of tons in Odis but in the most challenging format of the game,. Mathewd is still the KING.
 
Matthews now, in a year or two Kohli. He just needs to temper himself a bit.

People get caught up early on in careers. Sachin took what, 70 matches for an ODI ton? Kohli will be the better player.

Both are going to be great though. Matthews has been immaculate in the last year.
 
Kiri , as I said earlier , we will come back to it in a year or two , when in absence of Mahela and Sangakara , Mathews will have to bat at 50-60/3 and 80-90/4 often.

Coming to crease at 170-200/3 instead of 60/3 is difference made by the elite company Mathews has above him in batting order.Or just imagine Kohli @ #5-6 in prime days of Gambir , Sehwag , Dravid and Tendulkar making up 1-4.

Having said that , I repeat , the debate should be postponed.Sample size is too small.ATM it's Mathews , but ATM it's not unbiased hence doesn't merit a debate ATM.
 
Kiri said:
Wrong. Mathews turned his batting around in the UAE against Pakistan. He was player of the series and outscored every player on each side.





I love how you put Thirimanne into that list. Don't forget SL has a weaker tail in the Test format, where Mathews averages even more so Tests is his best format.



:)))







Mathews's captaincy is helped by Sanga and Mahela in the team. I don't see how they help with his batting. We're only talking about Test batting here.






We're talking about Tests. Like I said, you're talking about his limited overs accolades. Not all players are capable of transforming their ODI and T20 form into Tests.








Have you forgotten the knocks Mathews played for SL? If it weren't for him, the 1st Test would not have been a draw. He fought tooth and nail for it in tough conditions. It was one of the best knocks I saw from him since he took over captaincy. Then he hit a century in the 2nd Test to win SL the series. Mathews is a match winner. Kohli is not in this format.






How can Mathews not continue this fine form? He's already averaging higher than Kohli. There's only two years difference with the added pressure of captaincy as well.
Click to expand...

To be honest i am not dissing Matthews.

Someone said Kohli will become ATG while Matthews will dwindle away. I openly refuted that and said that is not going to happen. Matthews is even a gun ODI player to be honest.

Just that Kohli is in a different league to Matthews in ODIs.

Off course, Matthews has found his groove in last few tests, but that doesn't mean Kohli is overrated. Why is Kohli overrated in tests? What inherent weakness do you see in Kohli's game style that makes you think he can't replicate his success in the longer format of the game?

He has test centuries against most of the countries in their home grounds.

Then why can't he make more?

I like Matthews, still think that Kohli will end up the better player once he finds his range in this arena.

Doesn't mean Matthews will suck. Matthews is too good a player to be lost into oblivion.

But I repeat, if you make a small sample size , the argument is usually null and void.

And such type of threads usually pop up when one batsmen does well and the other has a little tough time. Why wasn't this thread popped up when Kohli hit a century against SA and Matthews was struggling?

Both are good batsmen and sample size is void at the moment to make a logical comparison.
 
hafeezrocks said:
Like it or not but all signs indicate that Mathews will continue to be a better Test Batsman than Kohli.

Kohli can score gazillions of tons in Odis but in the most challenging format of the game,. Mathewd is still the KING.
Click to expand...

Making sweeping generalizations when one player isn't in the best of forms isn't good.

All signs indicate NOTHING.

Mathews is better now. Rightly so.

Will he stay better? Time will tell.

In fact, if you go by signs, Kohli is bound to get into the groove and strike big sooner or later. Anyone who has scored almost 2 tons in JoBerg (not a green pitch but a very good pitch in the first innings, more easier in the second innings) against that attack is no joke.
 
Kohli can score gazillions of tons in Odis but in the most challenging format of the game,. Mathewd is still the KING.
Click to expand...

And what's up with the tone of this statement as if Kohli is getting useless tons in ODI and is not facing the real challenge.

What Kohli does in ODIs is incredible. He is outrageously good and wins you games like crazy there.

That deserves incredible praise on its own even if he is a total flop in the Tests.
 
hafeezrocks said:
Like it or not but all signs indicate that Mathews will continue to be a better Test Batsman than Kohli.

Kohli can score gazillions of tons in Odis but in the most challenging format of the game,. Mathewd is still the KING.
Click to expand...

4 innings, 2 of them in a drawn match, and suddenly, Matthews is the King.

Don't know why the king went missing in India, Australia and South Africa. He may well be improving, and may even go on to become a better Test batsman than Kohli. But the foundation of your logic to reach that conclusion is quite shaky.
 
Mathews has been performing consistently in the last 6 months as a Test Batsman. I do think Kohli will overtake him in a couple of years. But i think Mathews can become a top class Test Batsman
 
Dr_Bassim said:
If that is the benchmark, then Misbah should be the best batsmen ever because he has a team of no-hopers around him for ages who fall like a pack of cards.
Click to expand...

That is exactly what Misbah haters should realize. At least SL has like Sangakkara, Dilshan and Mahela. Misbah got no one really, Pakistan literally doesn't have any reliable batsmen that sows consistency.
 
Kiri said:
I love how you put Thirimanne into that list. Don't forget SL has a weaker tail in the Test format, where Mathews averages even more so Tests is his best format.


How can Mathews not continue this fine form? He's already averaging higher than Kohli. There's only two years difference with the added pressure of captaincy as well.
Click to expand...

Sl middle order for the last year has been horrible. Thirimanne averages like 20 in the last year or so, he is often playing with Thiri, deubtant or Chandimal(self destructing bomb that could explode any time)

Mathews is a year and 5 months older to be exact :19:
 
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Electron said:
4 innings, 2 of them in a drawn match, and suddenly, Matthews is the King.

Don't know why the king went missing in India, Australia and South Africa. He may well be improving, and may even go on to become a better Test batsman than Kohli. But the foundation of your logic to reach that conclusion is quite shaky.
Click to expand...

You answered your own question. My theory is Mathews had sexual frustration in the past, he wasn't married goshhhh why is it so hard to understand people :facepalm:. Kohli bangs an Indian super model a day.
 
Dr_Bassim said:
And such type of threads usually pop up when one batsmen does well and the other has a little tough time. Why wasn't this thread popped up when Kohli hit a century against SA and Matthews was struggling?
Click to expand...

That sums it up.
 
Mathews AVG in ODI would be MUCH more higher if he didn't bat low. Unlike Test where you have unlimited # of balls, In ODI you have to protect the wicket of you, tail and score at steady pace with sufficient # of balls you have left. Often Mathews ends up trying to score much runs as he can while batting before the tail starts collapsing and often he gets out cause he knows when pace man starts coming at 138+ all hell breaks lose at SL low order. If Mathews were to bat at # 3 or #4 his average would be in at least mid 40s. I'm not saying he will definitely be better than Kohli in ODI if he were to bat at top order, but saying his AVG would be muchhhh higher if he was to bat at top order.

Mathews has been Averaging 41 in ODI for the last 2 years and 65.9 In Test in last 2 years thanks to Kulsekara's and Senanayake's.
 
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thivaakar;6988765[B said:
]Mathews AVG in ODI would be MUCH more higher if he didn't bat low. [/B]Unlike Test where you have unlimited # of balls, In ODI you have to protect the wicket of you, tail and score at steady pace with sufficient # of balls you have left. Often Mathews ends up trying to score much runs as he can while batting before the tail starts collapsing and often he gets out cause he knows when pace man starts coming at 138+ all hell breaks lose at SL low order. If Mathews were to bat at # 3 or #4 his average would be in at least mid 40s. I'm not saying he will definitely be better than Kohli in ODI if he were to bat at top order, but saying his AVG would be muchhhh higher if he was to bat at top order.
Click to expand...

More nonsesne . A lot of people would argue that batting lower down the order helps with avg with more opportnity stay Not out . isnt that the excuse given for Dhonis avg ? your only as good as your avg says , the rest is all excuse . Mathews is a good players , nothing beyond that . He neither has to technique or Talent to be a great player .
 
People don't know much about Mathews. Mathews has been captaining SL U-15 since the age of 14ish. Probably not because of his leadership, but because of his all rounding ability(bowled around 85 MPH at the age of 15/16/17. Mathews dad is a coach, he owns a cricket academy and he was coached by his dad all his life. Mathews was meant to be a professional cricketer from day 1, unlike Sangakakra who played Tennis or Tharanga who was a fisherman or anything. This is why Mathews recent form isn't much of a surprise for many of us who knew Mathews.
 
thivaakar said:
Cause no one thought people could compare Mathews with Kohli and now you are able to.
Click to expand...

An that's due to the point made by a poster above.

If you can compare both when both have 50+ tests then it will make much more sense rather than just comparing when one one dude is having a bad time in few test and other is having a good time in few tests. If comparison is made only on basis of 3-4 tests then it's not a very good comparison.

Premature to compare here. That's what I think.
 
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Either Mathews has hit a purple patch or he has improved his game vastly only time would tell but right now he has become a very good bat. And yes Mathews is a superior bat than Kohli right now.
 
thivaakar said:
People don't know much about Mathews. Mathews has been captaining SL U-15 since the age of 14ish. Probably not because of his leadership, but because of his all rounding ability(bowled around 85 MPH at the age of 15/16/17. Mathews dad is a coach, he owns a cricket academy and he was coached by his dad all his life. Mathews was meant to be a professional cricketer from day 1, unlike Sangakakra who played Tennis or Tharanga who was a fisherman or anything. This is why Mathews recent form isn't much of a surprise for many of us who knew Mathews.
Click to expand...

Then in an years time, it will not be a surprise for others too. Let him continue with his form. He has only shown the first real signs of being a capable batsman outside subcontinent.

For the less fortunate people like us who don't happen to know him and his family that well, we will treat him like we treat other Cricketers. 2-3 more successful away tours, and surely he will be rated a lot higher even by his critics. For now, he has failed everywhere he has been challenged as a batsman (England being an exception).
 
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jusarrived said:
More nonsesne . A lot of people would argue that batting lower down the order helps with avg with more opportnity stay Not out . isnt that the excuse given for Dhonis avg ? your only as good as your avg says , the rest is all excuse . Mathews is a good players , nothing beyond that . He neither has to technique or Talent to be a great player .
Click to expand...

The bolded statement gives me a sign not to spend too much time talking to you about Mathews. How often do you watch Mathews play ? when he faces India or plays in a quarter final , Semi-final, Final ? I explained to you why his average is lower, he actually accumulate run and he tries to put team above his average. For example, if SL is 220-8 at 46 OVRS, you see him go all out, because he knows extra 20 runs won't make a big difference when the other team is chasing so he goes for bigger total and thats why he gets out. If you have seen Mathews play for long time know, you'll know his approach, how he thinks and gives what he was trying to do in post match interviews. Your claim of batting lower down the order to maintain higher average is nonsense. It may apply to Dhoni, because Jadeja comes after Dhoni. in SL, Kulesekara comes after Mathews. Look at how Mathews AVG has increased after the arrival of Senanayake in ODI.
 
Electron said:
Then in an years time, it will not be a surprise for others too. Let him continue with his form. He has only shown the first real signs of being a capable batsman outside subcontinent.

For the less fortunate people like us who don't happen to know him and his family that well, we will treat him like we treat other Cricketers. 2-3 more successful away tours, and surely he will be rated a lot higher even by his critics. For now, he has failed everywhere he has been challenged as a batsman (England being an exception).
Click to expand...

LOL Im not his relative. Most of SL fans know most about of SL players, due to school competition,reading their achievement on news papers, tv-interviews and etc. Unlike other countries, it is easier to get to know someone who knows cricketers very well and word of mouth goes around much quicker.
 
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Real and genuine batsmen succeed in all formats. I don't buy the nonsense that proper batsmen succeed in Tests. If a batsman is a success in Tests and a failure in ODIs and T20s, it's obvious that he has a few shortcomings and is one dimensional. A batsman who performs in one format only is not world class and a high quality batsman, doesn't matter if it it's Tests, ODIs or T20s.

Sweeping it under the rug because you think LOIs are unimportant is not on.
Kohli is a true batsman and he will be tremendous in all formats. He's the best ODI and T20 batsman already and a very good Test batsman who is underrated by people who compare his Test career to his ODI career. If you consider Kohli's Test career in isolation, he has done very well but when you create your own standards, you have to live up to it and if Kohli's Test career didn't mimic his ODIs', it will be his failure.
 
Mathews, Kohli are of same level. Kohli is massively overrated as a test batsman. He hasn't done anything to separate himself from Kane, D Bravo etc
 
Kohli is top notch. The only thing prolly letting him down atm is going for one too many shots. I'm sure he'll up his game in Tests as well soon enough. He's too good not to.
 
Kohli is going through a really bad run atm.
Isnt batting with his usual aura and aggressiveness. How was he in IPL coz he was a beast in WT20 last time i saw him bat properly
 
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Dr_Bassim said:
Err because he decimates attacks for fun in ODI's and averages 50 plus ? ( not to mention a part of some of epic inhumane chases).

Also a extremely good T20 player who paces his innings well...

What makes you think he will consistently flop in tests and be less than Matthews?
Click to expand...

There have been numerous ODI legends who have failed to become top class test players, two completely different formats.
 
vandokkum said:
There have been numerous ODI legends who have failed to become top class test players, two completely different formats.
Click to expand...

True.

But do you see any inherent weakness that makes you feel he will flop?

I mean the guy has centuries in tests as well.

Now what are you basing your assumption on?
 
Dr_Bassim said:
True.

But do you see any inherent weakness that makes you feel he will flop?

I mean the guy has centuries in tests as well.

Now what are you basing your assumption on?
Click to expand...
Kohli is lacking confidence and this is a lean period in his career after a pretty long period of sustained success. He has struggled with the ball swinging away from him in this series gone fishing a few quite a few times
 
Kohli in ODIs probably is the best batsman after ABdV. Mathews is not in the same class as a batsman in ODIs. in tests, how ever I put Mathews bit over Kholi because of Mathews' penchant of going after the fast bowlers. Mathews a a player is almost or may be more valuable than Kholi as his bowling is of very useful. Honestly, if you want to put a world XI, ABdV, Mathews, Dhoni and Kohli will be the starting names out of current players.
 
wow mathews has become an amazing player. kohli just looks like another indian ftb if u ask me.
 
It's Matthews on current form.
Truly shocked by kohli's performance
 
Mathews is only second to De villiers when playing pace and Kohli can't touch Mathews in tests.
 
Low sample size. I would wait for a few more years till the new-found Mathhews tours these places before coming to a conclusion.
 
the real battle starts now.....both are all time great material....mathews wat he did to england same kohli is doing in aus....
 
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