Another global recession?

[Gabbar Singh]

Is there a global recession on the horizon? Will governments simply print their way out of this one too like in 2008 or are policymakers setting themselves up for a rude awakening if they attempt to go down this route?

Any other thoughts?

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en-gb"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Krugman expects to see a global recession this year, warns "we don't have an effective response." <a href="https://t.co/r9TrYz0Qx7">https://t.co/r9TrYz0Qx7</a></p>— CNBC (@CNBC) <a href="https://twitter.com/CNBC/status/1117018475845828610?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">13 April 2019</a></blockquote>
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en-gb"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Global recession watch: most major economies slow down as confidence drains <a href="https://t.co/HYgjX8nHeQ">https://t.co/HYgjX8nHeQ</a></p>— Telegraph Business (@telebusiness) <a href="https://twitter.com/telebusiness/status/1115265868899004416?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">8 April 2019</a></blockquote>
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en-gb"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">A new global recession is getting closer — and the world is woefully unprepared. Excellent piece by <a href="https://twitter.com/graceblakeley?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@graceblakeley</a> on what the US yield curve inversion is and why it should trouble us. <a href="https://t.co/aeypj49rkF">https://t.co/aeypj49rkF</a></p>— George Eaton (@georgeeaton) <a href="https://twitter.com/georgeeaton/status/1111216413769940992?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">28 March 2019</a></blockquote>
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[ElRaja]

people have been doom mongering since 2008. if you say itll rain, it evenutally will, and given the cycles of economics thats no bad thing, having said that i dont think we'll see a global recession this year. the us china trade spat is essentially a giant squeeze on what was arguably an over heating american economy. i don't agree with it, but what it does mean is that trump has a pressure release valve to fall back on if the american economy starts tanking.

china on the other would benefit similarly if this game of global chicken pushes either country too far. china's problems however are far deeper, the economy is still state directed, which has created huge pockets of vulnerability in a system where any form of an economic recession may become a situation of existential worry for the ruling classes.

the worlds economy is driven by these two countries, with japan and europe playing supporting roles. a lack of real growth is however a global problem, and it has more to do with demographic trends and the reduction is added utility of technological advancement which has been misplaced on investments which add very little to global productivity.

persistently low interest rates, money printing, etc, are all tools used to alleviate the problem of weak demographic growth and stalling tech. an argument for africa and the asian sub continent to lead global growth exists, but these regions have too much corruption for entrepreneurialism to thrive like the US or Europe 100 to 150 years ago.

tl:dr i dont believe a global recession is coming this year, but systematically weaker growth will leave the global economy more vulnerable to potential recessions compared to the past 100 or 200 years.

 

[Technics 1210]

There is a recessionary cycle, then there is a recession preceded by a crash.

A crash will only occur when least expected, in other words, when panic and fear kicks in. If everyone is expecting a crash, it will not occur because rather than a sense of panic, there is a sense of expectation. However, when the crash does occur, the recession which follows will be like nothing we have seen before. There are few bullets in the gun. At the height of the 2008 crash, central banks had options, reduction of rates and QE. Now, with interest rates near zero in most of the Western hemisphere, the only way would be down into negative territory. This is not to say anything of the people in debt. Defaults, bankruptcies, and liquidations will rise. Bond yields will drop to negative territory too, and if could quite possibly see governments go bust. This is not a question of if, but a question of when.

With respect to a recessionary cycle, this is long overdue, and some may argue that we’re already in a recession. UK high streets are taking a hit, one brand after another. The Gig economy has taken off, essentially zero contract hours. Less people are saving now than they were 10 years ago. I remember reading a stat that around 80% did not have enough savings to cover a shock bill of £500! This is just the surface. People are paying their monthly mortgage payments with their credit cards! The bank of mum and dad is pretty much exhausted, house prices are not rising, but declining as are the agreed prices below asking price. The reality is that people now have less disposable income than ever before. The wealth effect is what is propping up the economy [along with QE] certainly in the UK [releasing equity from property].

If this is not enough, checkout the unemployment rate in the EU. Youngsters are struggling. Pensions are decimated, and the Euro is flaky. China cannot save the world from a recession. If the world is broke, who will buy off China? If EU is broke, who will sell to the EU? Whatever the outcome, this time will be different, and in the past decade QE has not only benefited banks but has helped prop up the stock markets.

It’s a scary thought, then again, powers to be will ensure there is no repeat of the Great depression.

 

[gazza619]

Oh no, not again

 

[dildilpak]

The recessionary cycle is definitely overdue - historically every 10 years or so we see a major market correction & the last one was 2017. However the US markets are doing well so far with employment & consumer spending on record high & tax reforms having positive effect on company margins which are propping up the world markets. But with Europe slowing down & US -China trade-war heating up, it might hit us sooner rather than later.

The timing of the recession depends solely on market sentiment &/or some trigger point (like no-deal brexit or Trump losing mid-term elections). Buckle up, its coming soon - possibly towards the end of this year.

 

[Gabbar Singh]

China just posted the slowest quarterly GDP growth rate in 27 years, German industrial production is at it's lowest for years, in the UK the pound is at a 28 month low, the economic data coming out of India is stark, the American economy is slowing dragged down by the trade war with China.

What's next?

 

[PetroDollars]

theres always a recession coming - Its the economic cycle of Keynesian economics.

Ray Dalio is usually right on the money with his predictions - and he says where very near one, sometime in the next 2 years.

 

[JaDed]

My investments went into massive negative today with robo buying on vanguard

 

[sweep_shot]

Recession generally happens periodically. It is just how economy works. Nothing to be alarmed about.

 

[topspin]

Strong possibility within the next 18 months when you consider the inverted US yield curve and the most of the developed economies around the world are in the latter stages of the economic cycle.

We should not forget out of the last seven inverted yield curves, this has been followed by recession on six occasions.

The recent interest rate cuts in US and UK also indicate a negative economic outlook.

 

[Gabbar Singh]

China’s GDP growth at an almost 30 year low and now this.....

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Just In: GDP India’s economic growth slows to 5% in April-June from 8% a year ago: Govt data (PTI)</p>— The Hindu (@the_hindu) <a href="https://twitter.com/the_hindu/status/1167409543850053633?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 30, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Technics 1210]

Global slowdown for sure. Markets have been trading within a specific range for some time now! I think she is gonna blow! Look out below!

 

[AdamM97]

China’s GDP growth at an almost 30 year low and now this.....

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Just In: GDP India’s economic growth slows to 5% in April-June from 8% a year ago: Govt data (PTI)</p>— The Hindu (@the_hindu) <a href="https://twitter.com/the_hindu/status/1167409543850053633?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 30, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Although the global slowdown has impacted the Indian GDP growth, the biggest cause for the slowdown of the Indian economy is the decline of FDI and exports in India.

 

[Kianig89]

Any chance of sharp decline in gold prices

 

[rhony]

Any chance of sharp decline in gold prices

Inflation is not high in Western countries with very low interest rates. Gold is an inflation hedge. However it's still an asset class so people keep propping it up as a way of diversification.

 

[Kianig89]

Inflation is not high in Western countries with very low interest rates. Gold is an inflation hedge. However it's still an asset class so people keep propping it up as a way of diversification.

Ok will it crash down

 

[rhony]

Strong possibility within the next 18 months when you consider the inverted US yield curve and the most of the developed economies around the world are in the latter stages of the economic cycle.

We should not forget out of the last seven inverted yield curves, this has been followed by recession on six occasions.

The recent interest rate cuts in US and UK also indicate a negative economic outlook.

Tbf you can't compare with history. For the past decade the central banks have played football with the bond markets. These yield curves don't represent the free market as they did earlier. The interest rate cuts could be just another power play. There is a slow down definitely due to trade issues. The free cash still exists in the market and will continue to do so there is no issue with liquidity. Could be a growth slow down with a possibility of recession. Moves are already being made by big economies to contain it.

 

[rhony]

Ok will it crash down

The only way for gold to crash down in low inflation scenarios is if everything crashes down. Panic selling is powerful.

 

[Kianig89]

^thanks

 

[Gabbar Singh]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Pennsylvania has lost 8,300 manufacturing jobs this year, while Wisconsin has lost 4,000. Factories are slumping in the Midwest and that is bad news for President Trump's reelection chances <a href="https://t.co/2JAP8uXBRE">https://t.co/2JAP8uXBRE</a></p>— Businessweek (@BW) <a href="https://twitter.com/BW/status/1173357067127664641?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">September 15, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">The US-China trade war is about to enter the end-game. And the outcome will determine whether the US, Europe and Australia go into recession next year. <a href="https://t.co/CC7d4zBp4y">https://t.co/CC7d4zBp4y</a></p>— Kevin Rudd (@MrKRudd) <a href="https://twitter.com/MrKRudd/status/1173413941432569856?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">September 16, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Comment: An oil shock may be enough to push the global economy into recession <a href="https://t.co/XEEykcplh1">https://t.co/XEEykcplh1</a></p>— The Sydney Morning Herald (@smh) <a href="https://twitter.com/smh/status/1174270733670846470?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">September 18, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[finalfantasy7]

plus Germany car industry problem

 

[JaDed]

Tbf for 10 years it was good. India would had handled this much better without demonetization which killed the unorganized sectors growth leading to multiple issues.(my infer based on opinions but who knows).

During 90s and 2000s there were many shocks.

 

[Gabbar Singh]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">German <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/manufacturing?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#manufacturing</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/PMI?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#PMI</a> sinks to 41.4 - it's fastest rate of contraction since 2009.<a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/EURUSD?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#EURUSD</a> slices through support - US PMI data out later. ^MS <a href="https://t.co/9IALv82qIz">pic.twitter.com/9IALv82qIz</a></p>— City Index (@CityIndex) <a href="https://twitter.com/CityIndex/status/1176039067860910080?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">September 23, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Gabbar Singh]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Stocks on tenterhooks as U.S. recession signs build <a href="https://t.co/sxGlJjNhnu">https://t.co/sxGlJjNhnu</a> <a href="https://t.co/7QicLB4lmq">pic.twitter.com/7QicLB4lmq</a></p>— Reuters Top News (@Reuters) <a href="https://twitter.com/Reuters/status/1179636158810267648?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 3, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">BREAKING: Eurozone nears stagnation as Germany enters recession territory <a href="https://t.co/UfYRGYevrS">https://t.co/UfYRGYevrS</a></p>— City A.M. (@CityAM) <a href="https://twitter.com/CityAM/status/1179670597732851718?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 3, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">China might not be as much help in next recession, writes <a href="https://twitter.com/Moss_Eco?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@Moss_Eco</a> <a href="https://t.co/39phu8yvz8">https://t.co/39phu8yvz8</a></p>— Bloomberg Opinion (@bopinion) <a href="https://twitter.com/bopinion/status/1179629027981713409?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 3, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Savak]

The world has always been in recession since 2008. Cannot remember a single positive feeling, aspiration for job seekers since then

 

[Amit2]

UK economy shrunk in August

https://uk.mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUKKBN1WI0QC

 

[Abdullah719]

Wall Street reckoning: Coronavirus drives worst week since 2008

Market pundits tend to embrace overblown words to describe big market moves to the downside: "bloodbath", "pounding" and "nosedive".

But all of those metaphors are fair game given the swiftness and severity of the sell-off that swept global stock markets this week, as the coronavirus outbreak continued to spread beyond China, heightening the risks of recession in the United States and globally.

After falling more than 1,000 points on Friday, the Dow Jones Industrial Average pared its losses to finish down 357.28 points or 1.39 percent.

For the week, the Dow lost more than 3,500 points, or 12 percent - well into correction territory, which is defined by a drop of 10 percent or more.

The broader S&P 500 also finished in correction territory, rounding out Friday with a weekly loss of 11.5 percent.

Both indexes saw their biggest weekly percentage losses since the global financial crisis of 2008.

The Nasdaq Composite Index managed to eke out a positive finish on Friday, with 0.89 point gain or 0.01 percent.

More than five trillion dollars in market capitalisation was lost globally this week - roughly equivalent to Japan's yearly economic output as measured by gross domestic product.

Some relief was in the offing on Friday after US Federal Reserve Chairman Jerome Powell released a statement at 2:30pm Eastern time (19:30 GMT) saying the US central bank is closely monitoring the evolving risks from coronavirus and will "act as appropriate to support the economy".

But not even the power of the Fed could fully contain investor fears about the mounting risks coronavirus presents to global growth.

Wall Street's so-called "fear gauge", the CBOE Volatility Index, hit a high not seen for two years.

Even longtime market watchers were left slack-jawed by the speed with which investors bailed out of equities, as hopes faded that the coronavirus outbreak would be quickly contained.

The S&P 500 - seen as a proxy for US retirement savings accounts - lurched from a record high on February 19 to a correction a mere six days later.

As investors fled stocks, they sought shelter in safe havens like bonds, sending the yields on US treasuries to record lows on Friday. For bonds, prices and yields move in opposite directions.

A warning sign of recession from the US treasury market - the so-called "inverted yield curve" - steepened even further.

But not all traditional safe havens were entirely safe from the global market rout.

Gold, which is historically seen as the safest of bets in troubled and uncertain times, was sent on a roller coaster on Friday. Spot prices touched an intraday low not seen since 2013, before clawing back most of the loss.

Recession fears mounting

In China, where the coronavirus outbreak started last year, new infections are falling. But cases are rising in other parts of Asia, Europe and the Middle East.

On Friday, the first case of coronavirus was reported in sub-Saharan Africa after Nigerian health officials confirmed a case of COVID-19 in Lagos.

Nearly 50 countries have now confirmed cases of the virus.

On Friday, the World Health Organization raised its assessment of the global risk to "very high" from "high" - a move that the head of emergencies, Mike Ryan, said was intended to put national authorities on full alert.

"I think this is a reality check for every government on the planet - wake up, get ready, this virus may be on its way and you need to be ready," Ryan said.

The global economy - already under pressure from the US-China trade war - has a whole new set of clouds gathering over it as the outbreak disrupts supply chains and international travel, causing major events to be cancelled.

Moody's Analytics on Thursday said a "pandemic" would trigger global and US recessions in the first half of the year and boosted the odds of that scenario happening to 40 percent from 20 percent.

On Thursday, equity strategists at Goldman Sachs slashed their outlook for profit growth at US companies to zero.

Bank of America also revised its world growth forecast to the lowest level since the peak of the global financial crisis.

The latest WHO figures indicate that more than 82,000 people have been infected, with more than 2,700 deaths in China and 57 deaths in 46 other countries.

https://www.aljazeera.com/ajimpact/...s-drives-worst-week-2008-200228211904654.html

 

[ReverseHit]

For now, we may just suffer a temporary slowdown in growth and bounce back. Wall Street is doing what it does best - overreacting on the upside/downside.

Some industries like airlines, tourismhospitality, entertainment will suffer bigger shocks, but the real risk of a broad recession lies in how long and severe the outbreak is, especially in China which has supply chains for Western companies. Does it lead to shutdown of factories and worker shortages for a prolonged time - that's where the risk lies.

 

[Abdullah719]

IMF: Virus outbreak will slow global economic growth this year

The global spread of the novel coronavirus has crushed hopes for stronger growth this year and will hold 2020 global output gains to their slowest pace since the 2008-2009 financial crisis, International Monetary Fund (IMF) Managing Director Kristalina Georgieva said on Wednesday.

The IMF now expects 2020 world growth to be below the 2.9 percent rate for 2019 and revised forecasts will be issued in the coming weeks, Georgieva told a news briefing. Trade wars pushed global growth last year to the lowest rate since a 0.7 percent contraction in 2009.

The changed forecast would represent a more than 0.4-percentage-point drop from the 3.3 percent growth the IMF had estimated for 2020 in January as trade tensions between the United States and China eased.

"Global growth in 2020 will dip below last year's levels, but how far it will fall and how long the impact will be is still difficult to predict," Georgieva said.

She declined to say whether the escalating health crisis could push the world into a recession.

The IMF is making available $50bn in emergency funding to help poor and middle-income countries with weak health systems respond to the epidemic, she said after a call with the IMF's steering committee.

About $10bn of that can be accessed by the poorest countries at zero interest for up to 10 years, while many middle-income countries have access to a pool of about $40bn at low interest for up to five years.

Ecuador used the latter programme in 2016 to get a $364m loan after a devastating earthquake.

But larger emerging-market countries such as Brazil, China, and India are ineligible for such assistance, as are countries where the IMF has declared debt to be unsustainable, including Argentina.

Georgieva and World Bank President David Malpass underscored the importance of coordinated action to limit the economic and human effect of the virus.

The World Bank said on Tuesday it was providing $12bn in immediate funds to help developing countries improve their health services, disease surveillance, access to medical supplies and working capital for businesses.

https://www.aljazeera.com/ajimpact/...bal-economic-growth-year-200305013321840.html

 

[Abdullah719]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-conversation="none" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/BREAKING?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#BREAKING</a> IMF chief Georgieva: 'Clear' global economy has 'entered recession' due to <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/coronavirus?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#coronavirus</a>, emerging market needs set to top $2.5 trillion <a href="https://t.co/lQKduhL6LK">pic.twitter.com/lQKduhL6LK</a></p>— AFP news agency (@AFP) <a href="https://twitter.com/AFP/status/1243562798522798081?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">March 27, 2020</a></blockquote>
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[Ronaldo7]

This really did tip it over the edge.

 

[sweep_shot]

I think we may have a deep recession. A depression can't also be ruled out.

 

[Abdullah719]

Unlike 2008 crisis, pandemic has no leader, no global plan

UNITED NATIONS (AP) — When financial markets collapsed and the world faced its last great crisis in 2008, major powers worked together to restore the global economy, but the COVID-19 pandemic has been striking for the opposite response: no leader, no united action to stop the spread of the new coronavirus, which has killed over 200,000 people.

The financial crisis gave birth to the leaders’ summit of the Group of 20, the world’s richest countries responsible for 80% of the global economy. But when U.N. Secretary-General Antonio Guterres proposed ahead of their summit in late March that G-20 leaders adopt a “wartime” plan and cooperate on the global response to suppress the virus, there was no response.

In an April 6 letter to the G-20 following the summit, former U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon and 164 other current and former presidents, prime ministers, scientists and global figures urged the group’s leaders to coordinate action “within the next few days” and agree on measures to address the deepening global health and economic crises from COVID-19. Again, no response.

A clearly frustrated Guterres told reporters Thursday that instead of “solid leadership” to fight the pandemic, each country went ahead with a different strategy, increasing the risk that the virus would not disappear, but rather spread and then return.

Spoiler

“It is obvious that there is a lack of leadership,” he said. “It is obvious the international community is divided in a moment where it would be more important than ever to be united.”

Guterres said what is key is leadership combined with power.

“We see remarkable examples of leadership, but they are usually not associated with power,” he said. “And where we see power, we sometimes do not see the necessary leadership. I hope this will be overcome sooner rather than later.”

But the 21st century has seen increasing fractures in global unity and cooperation.

In his state of the world speech last September, Guterres warned of the risk of the world dividing between the United States and China at a time of rising populism, increasing xenophobia, spreading terrorism, “exploding” inequality and a lingering climate crisis. He said there is a severe erosion in multilateralism — the foundation on which the United Nations was founded 75 years ago after the devastation of World War II.

The COVID-19 pandemic has put that warning into sharp focus, both in the world’s inability to come together in tackling the coronavirus and in the difference in health care, treatment and testing in G-20 nations compared with what exists in developing countries.

The failure has been playing out in the U.N. Security Council, the U.N.’s most powerful body, which has been impotent in addressing the pandemic — a crisis that Germany’s U.N. ambassador, Christoph Heusgen, calls “the biggest challenge that civilization has faced since the Second World War.”

The council has been unable to adopt a resolution that would endorse the secretary-general’s call for pandemic cease-fires in conflicts including Syria, Yemen, Libya and Afghanistan because of a dispute between the United States and China over including a reference to the World Health Organization.

After weeks of praising Chinese President Xi Jinping for his handling of the initial outbreak of the coronavirus, U.S. President Donald Trump is now accusing China of not acting quickly to inform the world of what was happening. He has also suspended U.S. funding to the WHO, accusing the U.N. health agency of parroting Beijing.

Security Council diplomats say China is insisting on a reference to the WHO in any resolution while the U.S. wants no mention of the agency and instead wants the text to demand “transparency” about COVID-19.

When the council discussed the pandemic on April 9, Germany’s Heusgen criticized its “deafening silence” and reminded members that during the 2008 financial crisis the G-20 displayed “both the leadership and the power” to deal with it.

“Here we do not have it,” Heusgen said. “We do not have leadership and power coming together.”

Estonian Ambassador Sven Jürgenson, the council president for May, told reporters Friday, “I think it’s a shame that we have not been able to take the leadership.”

Since mid-March, Guterres has been speaking out, warning of the global threat posed by the pandemic, especially in the developing world. .He launched a $2 billion appeal to help vulnerable and conflict-torn countries on March 25 which has received about $1 billion.

David Beasley, head of the U.N. World Food Program, has warned of “a hunger pandemic” that could push 265 million people “to the brink of starvation by the end of 2020.”

U.N. humanitarian chief Mark Lowcock said most experts agree the pandemic may not peak in the poorest parts of the world for three to six months. He said $90 billion could provide income support, food and a health response for 700 million of the world’s poorest and most vulnerable people in 30 to 40 countries — a price tag just 1% of the $8 trillion stimulus package that the G-20 countries put in place for helping the global economy.

Robert Malley, president and CEO of the International Crisis Group think tank, said at a recent briefing, “It’s clear that we’re facing a crisis of international leadership” and it’s unclear who can take over — the G-20 now led by Saudi Arabia, the Group of Seven major industrialized countries led by the United States, the United Nations or anyone else. That’s because the powers are all looking inward, and are less interested in being generous when their own citizens are facing crises, he said.

Malley said there shouldn’t be nostalgia for the past ”when there was virtually a unilateral or Western or U.S. domination” of global power which many countries resented.

“But,” he warned, “it’s one thing to have a different kind of leadership, it’s another thing to have no leadership at all.”

https://apnews.com/0ecf15e23aab8e0295bd07d77512f4bd