Another Partition?

[CricketCartoons]

Given that India's tryst with secularism has failed, would it be better if India was partitioned again, for the final time? A majority of Muslims got their homeland in 1947, but one third are left behind, which created two problems:

1. Muslims left behind in India became weaker.
2. Hindus and Sikhs didn't get their homeland.

I think every faith deserves a homeland for its people. Nothing wrong with secularism, but that comes only when your faith is safeguarded. There are catholic, islamic, buddhist nations, but no hindu or sikh nations, which is injustice to these two faiths.

India self labelling itself as secular has been a failure. The hindus who want a homeland (their right) feel they have been ripped off, and muslims have found it difficult to practice their faith in an increasingly hostile environment.

Don't think it is fair now to ask anyone to leave to another country, when they have been staying for so many decades. So it seems the best option would be to carve out states ( greater kerala for muslims, greater punjab for sikhs, and the rest for hindus eg). Final solution for ever lasting peace. Each faith can live according to their rules and there won't be any friction or oppression. Of course, there was no need for it when everyone was happy with the status quo. But seems neither muslims not hindus are happy, so this looks like a good solution. Any thoughts?

 

[LastManstanding]

Given that India's tryst with secularism has failed, would it be better if India was partitioned again, for the final time? A majority of Muslims got their homeland in 1947, but one third are left behind, which created two problems:

1. Muslims left behind in India became weaker.
2. Hindus and Sikhs didn't get their homeland.

I think every faith deserves a homeland for its people. Nothing wrong with secularism, but that comes only when your faith is safeguarded. There are catholic, islamic, buddhist nations, but no hindu or sikh nations, which is injustice to these two faiths.

India self labelling itself as secular has been a failure. The hindus who want a homeland (their right) feel they have been ripped off, and muslims have found it difficult to practice their faith in an increasingly hostile environment.

Don't think it is fair now to ask anyone to leave to another country, when they have been staying for so many decades. So it seems the best option would be to carve out states ( greater kerala for muslims, greater punjab for sikhs, and the rest for hindus eg). Final solution for ever lasting peace. Each faith can live according to their rules and there won't be any friction or oppression. Of course, there was no need for it when everyone was happy with the status quo. But seems neither muslims not hindus are happy, so this looks like a good solution. Any thoughts?

The Muslims living in Delhi or UP would have to leave for Kerala anyways, so we are indirectly asking them to leave for another country.

And where do we stop? Upper class Hindus may decide that they wouldn't live with lower class people and demand a separate country or vice-e-versa.

What do we do if we start having riots between upper class and Dalits? What if south indian states decide that they dont want to live with Hindi speaking people?

Do we equip all the newly formed countries with nuclear weapons to counter the threat of China and Pakistan? How do we divide the military?

 

[kaayal]

Who said that the muslims, hindus and christians are not happy here in Kerala? We love our people and are maintaining our unity for several decades. And if at all Kerala is getting partitioned from India by the sanghi centre then it will be with our hindu and christian people only. No need to make it as a 'muslim only country'.

 

[boomboomcheema]

Very interesting thread. I think given the massive over-population in India, it will be wise to divide the country into a few parts in order to avoid over-burdening of a few major cities.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Who said that the muslims, hindus and christians are not happy here in Kerala? We love our people and are maintaining our unity for several decades. And if at all Kerala is getting partitioned from India by the sanghi centre then it will be with our hindu and christian people only. No need to make it as a 'muslim only country'.

Fair enough. You want a place for seculars too. Probably that should also be taken care of, although such people will be in minority. Kerala was just an example. The muslim homeland could be anywhere, maybe Bengal. Those muslims who want a muslim country could move to that part, and people like you, who want secularism, could move to another part.

I agree it will cause inconvenience and will uproot families, but think of the larger good. Same happened in 1947, but at least those who got the good deal are thankful towards their ancestors for migrating to the new homeland.

 

[CricketCartoons]

The Muslims living in Delhi or UP would have to leave for Kerala anyways, so we are indirectly asking them to leave for another country.

And where do we stop? Upper class Hindus may decide that they wouldn't live with lower class people and demand a separate country or vice-e-versa.

What do we do if we start having riots between upper class and Dalits? What if south indian states decide that they dont want to live with Hindi speaking people?

Do we equip all the newly formed countries with nuclear weapons to counter the threat of China and Pakistan? How do we divide the military?

Please don't try slippery slope argument by creating hypothetical scenarios. Talk about the solution for the actual problems now, not which may or may not arise in the future.

Hindus and Sikhs deserve a homeland. But those who want a hindu rashtra are shamed by the seculars, the seculars want the whole country for themselves and want to deny the hindus their basic right to a homeland. This society is unstable, and history has taught us, that it leads to more hatred and bloodshed. Time has come when there should be a final solution for peace. Is there an alternate solution you can think of?

 

[Slog]

If anything it should be along regional lines rather than religion

If India has been divided in 7-8 countries on ethnic/regional lines there would be much lesser problems and many counterbalancing sources

And even then most countries formed would have populations of over 150 million or so

 

[kaayal]

Please don't try slippery slope argument by creating hypothetical scenarios. Talk about the solution for the actual problems now, not which may or may not arise in the future.

Hindus and Sikhs deserve a homeland. But those who want a hindu rashtra are shamed by the seculars, the seculars want the whole country for themselves and want to deny the hindus their basic right to a homeland. This society is unstable, and history has taught us, that it leads to more hatred and bloodshed. Time has come when there should be a final solution for peace. Is there an alternate solution you can think of?

Is it really bad that we need to segregate people into different country? I don't have any first hand experience of this hindu muslim descrimination and i always thought that the likes of Arnab are just manipulating people to propogate the BJP agenda.

 

[JaDed]

There's an easy solution, conversion should be banned between Abrahamic and Dharmic Faith's,they can convert among each other,this would create less issues and no need of partition.

 

[JaDed]

Is it really bad that we need to segregate people into different country? I don't have any first hand experience of this hindu muslim descrimination and i always thought that the likes of Arnab are just manipulating people to propogate the BJP agenda.

Passive discrimination is obviously there,even in Kerala it would be there, didn't you experience it in Coimbattore?

Religions are discriminatory in some way or the other,if not people would be marrying each other easily without family issues.

 

[kabbirann]

I was never for Khalistan- the name itself sounds stupid, but I can see myself getting behind something like greater Punjab.
I, for one, look forward to a future where instead of Hindus,Sikhs and Muslims fighting ,it would just be us Sikhs fighting with each other.

 

[akki]

cartoon partition happened in 1947 .Muslims wanted another nation for tgem and they already got that. No way , no chance for another muslim land now. Thosr who dnt want to live here can go to hell. We have a example also that country formed on basis of religion is not a good idea. people anyway will remain unhappy .

 

[CricketCartoons]

I was never for Khalistan- the name itself sounds stupid, but I can see myself getting behind something like greater Punjab.
I, for one, look forward to a future where instead of Hindus,Sikhs and Muslims fighting ,it would just be us Sikhs fighting with each other.

Greater punjab with a mix of religions? Such a country will be dead on arrival, with punjabi hindus, muslims and sikhs baying for each others blood. Not that it hasn't happened earlier. From Punjab, they have become Doab. They deserve better.

 

[akki]

I was never for Khalistan- the name itself sounds stupid, but I can see myself getting behind something like greater Punjab.
I, for one, look forward to a future where instead of Hindus,Sikhs and Muslims fighting ,it would just be us Sikhs fighting with each other.

hun ta greater punjab bn v ni skda.......aadha sada punjab pakistan kol a....baki i hope and pray fir our punjab to rise again. it used to be such a force man earlier...

 

[CricketCartoons]

cartoon partition happened in 1947 .Muslims wanted another nation for tgem and they already got that. No way , no chance for another muslim land now. Thosr who dnt want to live here can go to hell. We have a example also that country formed on basis of religion is not a good idea. people anyway will remain unhappy .

Not fair that indian muslims be made to pay for the partition in 1947. They stayed back hoping that this country would be better for them, but it was a mistake. Letting go of some land is a steal when you think of the peace and tranquility it will bring in. Both Hindus and Muslims deserve to live according to their faith, with pride. These are two separate nations, incompatible with each other, and anyone who thinks otherwise has been and will be proven wrong.

 

[JaDed]

I was never for Khalistan- the name itself sounds stupid, but I can see myself getting behind something like greater Punjab.
I, for one, look forward to a future where instead of Hindus,Sikhs and Muslims fighting ,it would just be us Sikhs fighting with each other.

It already happens in Punjab, between the castes so don't worry u don't need another country just for that.

 

[JaDed]

The only mistake India did was not to have uniform law ,we created the religious divide ourselves like fools.

 

[akki]

Not fair that indian muslims be made to pay for the partition in 1947. They stayed back hoping that this country would be better for them, but it was a mistake. Letting go of some land is a steal when you think of the peace and tranquility it will bring in. Both Hindus and Muslims deserve to live according to their faith, with pride. These are two separate nations, incompatible with each other, and anyone who thinks otherwise has been and will be proven wrong.

Do you gurantee that they will be happy after that ? are you stupid to not see tge example of a country formed on tge basis of religion ? Then why not form the country for dalits and sc they wud also be demanding and why not for pundits and upper castes as thy also get discriminated here for jobs and colleges etc and why not country for shia and sunni and they why not for seculars too . And why not country on the basis on ethinticity.
India is such a diverse nation that it can never be partitioned because if you remove religion then tgere is language and culture factor.

 

[kaayal]

Passive discrimination is obviously there,even in Kerala it would be there, didn't you experience it in Coimbattore?

Religions are discriminatory in some way or the other,if not people would be marrying each other easily without family issues.

In Coimbatore, TN the people did have this apprehension of a hijabi girl examining and treating them. But once that initial trouble was crossed and started interacting with them, the paatis and thathas started blessing me lol. Some of them would come to my OP even if it is for other illness. Might be because i talk too much.

 

[akki]

The only mistake India did was not to have uniform law ,we created the religious divide ourselves like fools.

if we do it now, govt will be blamed for hindutva. congress has eaten india a lot. I dnt mind bjp, till we get better option than them.

 

[kabbirann]

hun ta greater punjab bn v ni skda.......aadha sada punjab pakistan kol a....baki i hope and pray fir our punjab to rise again. it used to be such a force man earlier...

Lol!My reply was not serious.
Punjab taan duur di gal hai, I would'nt want even Kashmir to be separated from India .

 

[JaDed]

In Coimbatore, TN the people did have this apprehension of a hijabi girl examining and treating them. But once that initial trouble was crossed and started interacting with them, the paatis and thathas started blessing me lol. Some of them would come to my OP even if it is for other illness. May be because i talk too much.

That probably is the case for most people across India, dealing daily with different Faith's isn't the issue everyone is used to that here, making friends again isn't but making them family still will be unacceptable most of the times.

 

[JaDed]

if we do it now, govt will be blamed for hindutva. congress has eaten india a lot. I dnt mind bjp, till we get better option than them.

Uniform law wouldn't come in under BJP,the first case would be revoking beef ban across states based on uniformity.

That's the reason they are cunningly making Muslim women go after triple talaq instead of bringing in uniform law.

 

[LastManstanding]

Not fair that indian muslims be made to pay for the partition in 1947. They stayed back hoping that this country would be better for them, but it was a mistake. Letting go of some land is a steal when you think of the peace and tranquility it will bring in. Both Hindus and Muslims deserve to live according to their faith, with pride. These are two separate nations, incompatible with each other, and anyone who thinks otherwise has been and will be proven wrong.

Most Muslims stayed back because they didnt want to move to another country thousands of miles away and start from the scratch. Thats why most of emigrants were from areas near Punjab. You cant expect a muslim in Gujarat or UP to leave his house and work and move to Kerala hundreds of miles away.

 

[LastManstanding]

Passive discrimination is obviously there,even in Kerala it would be there, didn't you experience it in Coimbattore?

Religions are discriminatory in some way or the other,if not people would be marrying each other easily without family issues.

Passive discrimination is there between various castes as well. Doesnt mean we go on partitioning the country along the various lines.

 

[JaDed]

Passive discrimination is there between various castes as well. Doesnt mean we go on partitioning the country along the various lines.

Of course not, it's stupid logic to divide countries anyway.

 

[kaayal]

That probably is the case for most people across India, dealing daily with different Faith's isn't the issue everyone is used to that here, making friends again isn't but making them family still will be unacceptable most of the times.

Even marrying within the hindu caste system is not accepatable for many. But that doesn't mean they should be segregated.

 

[JaDed]

Even marrying within the hindu caste system is not accepatable for many. But that doesn't mean they should be segregated.

Again didn't say that,was just arguing on point of passive discrimination and true on caste as well.

 

[kaayal]

if we do it now, govt will be blamed for hindutva. congress has eaten india a lot. I dnt mind bjp, till we get better option than them.

Do it. Full support to the govt if they are introducing this uniform civil code. But our govt will not do it because of beef politics.

 

[akki]

Do it. Full support to the govt if they are introducing this uniform civil code. But our govt will not do it because of beef politics.

Because mam we dnt have much educated , rational thinking people like you,so i dnt see it happening right now. plus beef politics is giving bjp votes , so we know for votes political parties can go to any extent.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Do you gurantee that they will be happy after that ? are you stupid to not see tge example of a country formed on tge basis of religion ? Then why not form the country for dalits and sc they wud also be demanding and why not for pundits and upper castes as thy also get discriminated here for jobs and colleges etc and why not country for shia and sunni and they why not for seculars too . And why not country on the basis on ethinticity.
India is such a diverse nation that it can never be partitioned because if you remove religion then tgere is language and culture factor.

How can I guarantee anything? Of course people will find other issues to fight against. But let us not confuse the issue. There are conflicts within a family too, but blood is blood. A Pakistani may hate nawaz sharif, but it is far better than being ruled by a Ram Singh. Same with me ( a hindu). I may dislike my govt, but I am happy that they are at least hindus.

The issue between several castes in hindus is a minor one, which has lessened with reform in religion and affirmative action by the govt. It is only going to get better.

But the hindu muslim divide is fundamental, and it will only go worse (it is bad already).

 

[CricketCartoons]

Passive discrimination is there between various castes as well. Doesnt mean we go on partitioning the country along the various lines.

I would rather be discriminated by a hindu than a muslim. Not that I want to be discriminated, but the identity of the oppressor matters to me.

When a hindu kills a hindu, I am sad..but when a muslim kills a hindu, I am outraged. I am sure it is the same with many others.

 

[akki]

How can I guarantee anything? Of course people will find other issues to fight against. But let us not confuse the issue. There are conflicts within a family too, but blood is blood. A Pakistani may hate nawaz sharif, but it is far better than being ruled by a Ram Singh. Same with me ( a hindu). I may dislike my govt, but I am happy that they are at least hindus.

The issue between several castes in hindus is a minor one, which has lessened with reform in religion and affirmative action by the govt. It is only going to get better.

But the hindu muslim divide is fundamental, and it will only go worse (it is bad already).

Well but i wont mind to get ruled by people like abdul kalaam or get protected by sikh army or airforce generals.
Do one thing open google map and figure out , if more than 50 percent of countries formed on the basis of religion arr happy and living peacefully , forget about 100 percent gurantee , then i am in.
And you didnt consider language and ethinticity part as well.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Well but i wont mind to get ruled by people like abdul kalaam or get protected by sikh army or airforce generals.
Do one thing open google map and figure out , if more than 50 percent of countries formed on the basis of religion arr happy and living peacefully , forget about 100 percent gurantee , then i am in.
And you didnt consider language and ethinticity part as well.

Yes when I see the world map, I see that Christians, Jews, Muslims and Buddhists have their own homeland(s). Only Hindus and Sikhs are missing on the map. Whether that will solve all problems? of course not. But it is their basic right, which has so far been denied to them. Are you on of those seculars who talk about national integrity only because they want the entire country for themselves and want to deny hindus their birthright?

 

[akki]

Yes when I see the world map, I see that Christians, Jews, Muslims and Buddhists have their own homeland(s). Only Hindus and Sikhs are missing on the map. Whether that will solve all problems? of course not. But it is their basic right, which has so far been denied to them. Are you on of those seculars who talk about national integrity only because they want the entire country for themselves and want to deny hindus their birthright?

Yes those people have their own countries , but how many of them living peacefully. ????Illiteracy and poverty often deny rigts everywhere.
And how wud you divide ? what about languages and culture ? what you are talking about is not practical thing anyway.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Yes those people have their own countries , but how many of them living peacefully. ????Illiteracy and poverty often deny rigts everywhere.
And how wud you divide ? what about languages and culture ? what you are talking about is not practical thing anyway.

They may or may not live peacefully, but at least they have a homeland, warts and all. Where is my homeland? Partition was practical in 1947 and is practical now. Or do you want hindus and muslims killing each other because of the obsolete idea of secularism thrust upon them by people living in air conditioned drawing rooms.

 

[akki]

They may or may not live peacefully, but at least they have a homeland, warts and all. Where is my homeland? Partition was practical in 1947 and is practical now. Or do you want hindus and muslims killing each other because of the obsolete idea of secularism thrust upon them by people living in air conditioned drawing rooms.

That ' s the reason the other country formed is considered as failed one right now. its all about politics , politics will be there for something else like language or ethenticity then. Its not a good idea. if we have problem , we must seek another solution.

 

[cricketjoshila]

The OP is a joke.Partition happened in 1947.Those who wanted to leave have left.Thats a closed chapter.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Of course not, it's stupid logic to divide countries anyway.

It clearly isn't, since most Indians would never want to re-integrate Pakistan and Bangladesh into unified India again in any case. In fact even some Indian cities are divided with Hindu landlords refusing to rent or sell property to Muslim or Christian citizens.

 

[Musakhel]

Hindus do have a country......Nepal.

 

[troodon]

The only people that deserve a separate country are Dalits.

Caste Hindus like Brahmin, Baniya, Rajputs, Jats, Gujjars, Yadavs, Khatris etc along with Sikhs should get a separate country. They are more close to each other ethnically too.

Dalits and Muslims usually show a lot of affinity to each other. So Muslims can join Dalits, Tribals and other extreme lower castes.

Christians can also choose to be with either of the above nations depending on who they were before conversion. Even Muslims can also do that.

This is it. No more partition after that. Dividing country into states based on language was stupid. It means upper and Dalits living in the same state which leads to discrimination issues and charges. It's never ending.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

The only people that deserve a separate country are Dalits.

Caste Hindus like Brahmin, Baniya, Rajputs, Jats, Gujjars, Yadavs, Khatris etc along with Sikhs should get a separate country. They are more close to each other ethnically too.

Dalits and Muslims usually show a lot of affinity to each other. So Muslims can join Dalits, Tribals and other extreme lower castes.

Christians can also choose to be with either of the above nations depending on who they were before conversion. Even Muslims can also do that.

This is it. No more partition after that. Dividing country into states based on language was stupid. It means upper and Dalits living in the same state which leads to discrimination issues and charges. It's never ending.

What strange logic. If Muslims show sympathy for Dalits they should be asked to join them in a separate country? Shouldn't all the communities be sympathetic to the plight of the underclasses including "Caste Hindus like Brahmin, Baniya, Rajputs, Jats, Gujjars, Yadavs, Khatris etc along with Sikhs"?

I think your answer probably reveals why the division of India argument is valid. What a disappointing attitude towards your own citizens.

 

[troodon]

What strange logic. If Muslims show sympathy for Dalits they should be asked to join them in a separate country? Shouldn't all the communities be sympathetic to the plight of the underclasses including "Caste Hindus like Brahmin, Baniya, Rajputs, Jats, Gujjars, Yadavs, Khatris etc along with Sikhs"?

I think your answer probably reveals why the division of India argument is valid. What a disappointing attitude towards your own citizens.

The argument is that Muslims cannot live with upper caste Hindus. Too much friction between them. Muslims always club themselves with Dalits and they have several organizations regarding that. They have no problem living with Dalits.

As I mentioned, Muslims can also choose with caste Hindus if they know who they were before conversion.

 

[Black Zero]

How the map would look like?
And most importantly, what will happen to IPL?

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

The argument is that Muslims cannot live with upper caste Hindus. Too much friction between them. Muslims always club themselves with Dalits and they have several organizations regarding that. They have no problem living with Dalits.

As I mentioned, Muslims can also choose with caste Hindus if they know who they were before conversion.

Are the Muslims arguing they can't live with upper class Hindus? First time I have heard it. Can any Indian Muslims clarify this? @kayaal perhaps?

 

[UN talkz]

Are the Muslims arguing they can't live with upper class Hindus? First time I have heard it. Can any Indian Muslims clarify this? @kayaal perhaps?

Nah nothing like that....
we don't have any probs with Dalits either

 

[kaayal]

Are the Muslims arguing they can't live with upper class Hindus? First time I have heard it. Can any Indian Muslims clarify this? @kayaal perhaps?

I think he is refering to food habits like eating meat. Upper caste hindus doesn't eat meat while muslims and dalits do. In Kerala some of the namboothiris (upper caste) are strong communists even though they follow their religious rituals with their family.This mentality differs in various states i guess.

 

[JaDed]

It clearly isn't, since most Indians would never want to re-integrate Pakistan and Bangladesh into unified India again in any case. In fact even some Indian cities are divided with Hindu landlords refusing to rent or sell property to Muslim or Christian citizens.

partition did nothing..good for Pak and Bangla if they think they are happy,we would had still had same issues.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Another partition? You mean you want to create more problems than solving any like the original partition did? No thanks. OP is most welcome to move to bangladesh or pakistan if he so chooses.

 

[cricketjoshila]

I think he is refering to food habits like eating meat. Upper caste hindus doesn't eat meat while muslims and dalits do. In Kerala some of the namboothiris (upper caste) are strong communists even though they follow their religious rituals with their family.This mentality differs in various states i guess.

Upper caste Hindus like Kshatriyas eat meat.Brahmins from bengal odisha even the Maithil Brahmins of bihar eat meat.

Its a misconception.

 

[CanadianG00se]

Another partition? You mean you want to create more problems than solving any like the original partition did? No thanks. OP is most welcome to move to bangladesh or pakistan if he so chooses.

OP is bangladeshi who happens to be one of millions of illegal staying in India. We need to first address these illegals and then we can solve domestic problems.

Tbh, ive seen hindus and muslims living peacefully side by side for generations. Ive more hindu friends in India(even in Canada) than i have muslim ones. The only one actually demanding seperate country are the bengali muslims in Northeast. First they begged us to rescue them and now they are stabbing us behind our back. OP is smart urging seperate nation for hindus resulting in small seperate nation for minority. Guess who will take over that minority land?

OP is forgetting that other name of India is Hindustan, meaning land of hindus.

 

[kaayal]

Upper caste Hindus like Kshatriyas eat meat.Brahmins from bengal odisha even the Maithil Brahmins of bihar eat meat.

Its a misconception.

Actually I was specifically refering to the brahmins who does the pooja's and other jobs in the temple. They don't eat meat/fish here in South India. Similarly Iyers, Iyengars, Pattaru etc.

 

[90MPH]

That's why I like cricket cartoons because he tells us what he truly feels.

He wants a separate country for Hindus and I suspect many feel the same but are always shadowing around the issue by consistently saying "ve r a secular country".

The fact is a Hindu nationalist government is in power and the people knew exactly what they were voting for.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Actually I was specifically refering to the brahmins who does the pooja's and other jobs in the temple. They don't eat meat/fish here in South India. Similarly Iyers, Iyengars, Pattaru etc.

Iyers Iyengars are vaishnavite brahmins.They dont eat meat.

 

[Eagle_Eye]

OP is bangladeshi who happens to be one of millions of illegal staying in India. We need to first address these illegals and then we can solve domestic problems.

Tbh, ive seen hindus and muslims living peacefully side by side for generations. Ive more hindu friends in India(even in Canada) than i have muslim ones. The only one actually demanding seperate country are the bengali muslims in Northeast. First they begged us to rescue them and now they are stabbing us behind our back. OP is smart urging seperate nation for hindus resulting in small seperate nation for minority. Guess who will take over that minority land?

OP is forgetting that other name of India is Hindustan, meaning land of hindus.

Hindu is a foreign label.... for people living on the banks of the Indus. Which almost entirely runs through the middle of Pakistan!

 

[troodon]

Are the Muslims arguing they can't live with upper class Hindus? First time I have heard it. Can any Indian Muslims clarify this? @kayaal perhaps?

Organizations like RSS/VHP are mostly Upper caste Hindus. These are the guys who are opposed to Muslims or their ways.

Its the upper caste hindus who are the flag bearers of Hinduism. There will be a few low caste and Dalits too in it. But its top management and cadre are mostly Brahmins/Baniyas/Rajputs/Jatts etc.

Muslims will fit in well with Dalits as they have similar food habits. There are tons of Dalit converts in India. Muslims and Dalits often combine as they seem to fight the upper caste domination. You can see that in student politics too.

I have mentioned if the Muslims know their ancestry, they can live with Upper caste. Muslim Rajputs, Muslim Dogras, Khatris, Brahmins, Baniyas, Jatts, Gujjars, Patels... can live with upper caste. They can understand the sentiments of their brethren better than say a Dalit Muslim.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Organizations like RSS/VHP are mostly Upper caste Hindus. These are the guys who are opposed to Muslims or their ways.

Its the upper caste hindus who are the flag bearers of Hinduism. There will be a few low caste and Dalits too in it. But its top management and cadre are mostly Brahmins/Baniyas/Rajputs/Jatts etc.

Muslims will fit in well with Dalits as they have similar food habits. There are tons of Dalit converts in India. Muslims and Dalits often combine as they seem to fight the upper caste domination. You can see that in student politics too.

I have mentioned if the Muslims know their ancestry, they can live with Upper caste. Muslim Rajputs, Muslim Dogras, Khatris, Brahmins, Baniyas, Jatts, Gujjars, Patels... can live with upper caste. They can understand the sentiments of their brethren better than say a Dalit Muslim.

The same is true for indian muslims. The ashrafiyas make the decisions for the rest, just look at the members of the personal law boards and waqf boards. Even the "progressive" syed ahmed khan was a proponent of ashraf hegemony.

 

[troodon]

Hindu is a foreign label.... for people living on the banks of the Indus. Which almost entirely runs through the middle of Pakistan!

Everyone was a Hindu for Arabs starting from Pakistan. Its the traditions and culture they saw that clubbed Hindus/Buddhists into one group of Hindus.

Sanatana Dharma/Buddhists/Jains are all Hindus as per Arabs. If Sikhs were there during Arab conquest, they would be called Hindus too.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Organizations like RSS/VHP are mostly Upper caste Hindus. These are the guys who are opposed to Muslims or their ways.

Its the upper caste hindus who are the flag bearers of Hinduism. There will be a few low caste and Dalits too in it. But its top management and cadre are mostly Brahmins/Baniyas/Rajputs/Jatts etc.

Muslims will fit in well with Dalits as they have similar food habits. There are tons of Dalit converts in India. Muslims and Dalits often combine as they seem to fight the upper caste domination. You can see that in student politics too.

I have mentioned if the Muslims know their ancestry, they can live with Upper caste. Muslim Rajputs, Muslim Dogras, Khatris, Brahmins, Baniyas, Jatts, Gujjars, Patels... can live with upper caste. They can understand the sentiments of their brethren better than say a Dalit Muslim.

You didn't answer my question, you said "The argument is that Muslims cannot live with upper caste Hindus"

What I want to know is who is making that argument? I don't think it's the Muslims, so why should they leave for a separate country?

 

[troodon]

The same is true for indian muslims. The ashrafiyas make the decisions for the rest, just look at the members of the personal law boards and waqf boards. Even the "progressive" syed ahmed khan was a proponent of ashraf hegemony.

Religion is just a shirt that you wear today and discard tomorrow for another shirt. Today you wear Saffron. Tomorrow you wear green and day after you wear white. But looking down upon Dalits does not change in India.

The change is coming. But like most other things, it will not happen in the next 100 years. The image of a Dalit in people's minds needs to change.

 

[troodon]

You didn't answer my question, you said "The argument is that Muslims cannot live with upper caste Hindus"

What I want to know is who is making that argument? I don't think it's the Muslims, so why should they leave for a separate country?

Its from both sides. Muslims cannot live and upper caste Hindus also cannot live with a Muslim neighbor who eats beef or sometimes even simple meat. The incidents of not renting Muslims, beef lynchings etc are a result of it. Politicians use this division very well and further instigate the sparks from the friction into a major fire(riot).

 

[kaayal]

The same is true for indian muslims. The ashrafiyas make the decisions for the rest, just look at the members of the personal law boards and waqf boards. Even the "progressive" syed ahmed khan was a proponent of ashraf hegemony.

Who are ashrafiyas? Hearing about them for the first time.
I did google but coundn't find anything.

 

[kaayal]

Its from both sides. Muslims cannot live and upper caste Hindus also cannot live with a Muslim neighbor who eats beef or sometimes even simple meat. The incidents of not renting Muslims, beef lynchings etc are a result of it. Politicians use this division very well and further instigate the sparks from the friction into a major fire(riot).

We can live with them. Only they have problem with us.

 

[troodon]

Who are ashrafiyas? Hearing about them for the first time.
I did google but coundn't find anything.

Upper Caste converts to Islam. Mostly Brahmins, Rajputs etc..

Ajlafs are the Dalit converts mostly. They do not inter marry and there is oppression there too.

Even among Christians these divisions are there to see.

 

[troodon]

We can live with them. Only they have problem with us.

Kaayal, you are a Malayalee. If you are from UP/Bihar/Bengal or anywhere from North India, your opinion will be a bit different. The number of riots, lynchings are an example of it.

Hindu and Muslim communities are just a drop of a hat away from a riot. Some are minor and some are major.

South Indian Muslim and Hindu communities are relatively a lot united than Northies.

 

[CricketCartoons]

We can live with them. Only they have problem with us.

The only way hindus and muslims can live together if both compromise, or one is totally subdued by the other. Not a fair solution. That is why Partition 2.0. These two communities are not just incompatible, they are fundamentally antagonistic to each other.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Its from both sides. Muslims cannot live and upper caste Hindus also cannot live with a Muslim neighbor who eats beef or sometimes even simple meat. The incidents of not renting Muslims, beef lynchings etc are a result of it. Politicians use this division very well and further instigate the sparks from the friction into a major fire(riot).

Those examples are all from one side. Clearly it is the upper caste Hindus who cannot live in the same vicinity as Muslims so perhaps they are the ones who should leave as they are the ones who are least happy to co-exist.

 

[troodon]

The only way hindus and muslims can live together if both compromise, or one is totally subdued by the other. Not a fair solution. That is why Partition 2.0. These two communities are not just incompatible, they are fundamentally antagonistic to each other.

Islam is everything that is not Dharmic.

Many invaders over thousands of Indians attacked India and adopted Hindiusm/Buddhism and became completely Indianized.

When Arabs invaded India, they did not adopt the native religion. They imposed a foreign faith on locals. Many converted. Many did not. Hence the friction between religions of the land and Islam.

Christians also did not adopt Hinduism/Buddhism/Jainism etc. But many still have Indian first name followed with a Biblical name. Names like Varun Aaron, Rahul Thomas, Jesus Ratnam, Smitha Rose, Vineela Paul etc are common among them. They all wear sarees and follow local traditions. Very well integrated.

The friction between both Hindu and Muslim communities will continue as long as both take their religion seriously.

 

[kaayal]

Upper Caste converts to Islam. Mostly Brahmins, Rajputs etc..

Ajlafs are the Dalit converts mostly. They do not inter marry and there is oppression there too.

Even among Christians these divisions are there to see.

Thanks. I knew only about the Syeds who claims that they are the descendents of Prophet Muhammad. This caste system among Indian muslims is new to me.

 

[Eagle_Eye]

Islam is everything that is not Dharmic.

Many invaders over thousands of Indians attacked India and adopted Hindiusm/Buddhism and became completely Indianized.

When Arabs invaded India, they did not adopt the native religion. They imposed a foreign faith on locals. Many converted. Many did not. Hence the friction between religions of the land and Islam.

Christians also did not adopt Hinduism/Buddhism/Jainism etc. But many still have Indian first name followed with a Biblical name. Names like Varun Aaron, Rahul Thomas, Jesus Ratnam, Smitha Rose, Vineela Paul etc are common among them. They all wear sarees and follow local traditions. Very well integrated.

The friction between both Hindu and Muslim communities will continue as long as both take their religion seriously.

There seems to be a basic misunderstanding in your post. Arab invasion was tiny and brief.... most of Islam came via Persia. All the great Sufis who did most of the conversion are Persian/Afghan/central Asian origin. That's why subcontinent Islam in large part is very different to Arabia.

The written and oral words of these sufis is revered in Sikhism today too.

 

[troodon]

Thanks. I knew only about the Syeds who claims that they are the descendents of Prophet Muhammad. This caste system among Indian muslims is new to me.

Some Muslims in India might have Persian and Arabic ancestry. But they will mostly be Indian with a bit of outside mix.
There is a reason why most people in India look Indian no matter which state they come from. Unless the person is a Tribal/Dalit or Kashmiri/Punjabi, the differences are not so obvious for outsiders.

 

[CanadianG00se]

Hindu is a foreign label.... for people living on the banks of the Indus. Which almost entirely runs through the middle of Pakistan!

Indus have nothing to do with 'Hindustan'

Indus actually gave a name, India and not Hindustan.

 

[maxamax]

If we start following this theory then every single home in sub-continent would be a separate country as we have created so many artificial divisions for having a false sense of superiority.. Rajput, Rana, God knows how many castes do we follow even having a same religious sub-sects. India's strength was being united as massive scale. That is why I don't support the decision of creating a separate Pakistan for "muslims". We are unable to save our religion that way.

 

[amax]

Some Muslims in India might have Persian and Arabic ancestry. But they will mostly be Indian with a bit of outside mix.
There is a reason why most people in India look Indian no matter which state they come from. Unless the person is a Tribal/Dalit or Kashmiri/Punjabi, the differences are not so obvious for outsiders.

from my limited personal experience with Indians there are four major look zones in India :North West-Punjab/Kashmir/Himachal etc. Central India Up/Bihar/Madhya Pradesh etc(bulk of indian populations) and than South India(South India is again very complex because brahmins can look quite northie)

 

[CricketCartoons]

Sorry to say, but it looks like there is so much hinduphobia around, that not one person is supporting a hindu homeland, the birth right of hindus. Even half of the landmass only for hindus, where they can practice their faith with pride without having to bear insults from others.

 

[amax]

Who are ashrafiyas? Hearing about them for the first time.
I did google but coundn't find anything.

ashrafs are indian muslims with either forieign(Pashtun in most cases or in Some Iranian aswell) ancestry or high caste converts , lots of such people were behind Pakistan movement, while current Pakistani ethnicites(Punjabi, Pashtun, Sindhis, balochs, dardics) were quite nuetral until late 1940s.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Good idea.

Punjab should be given to Pakistan and all Sikhs allowed to become Pakistani citizens. In India Sikhs are officially Hindus.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Good idea.

Punjab should be given to Pakistan and all Sikhs allowed to become Pakistani citizens. In India Sikhs are officially Hindus.

How does that solve anything. Do you think Sikhs don't deserve their own homeland and should always be a minority citizen?

 

[JaDed]

Good idea.

Punjab should be given to Pakistan and all Sikhs allowed to become Pakistani citizens. In India Sikhs are officially Hindus.

What do you know about Sikh's holy places?It stretches from Himachal to Bihar to Maharashtra.

 

[KingKhanWC]

How does that solve anything. Do you think Sikhs don't deserve their own homeland and should always be a minority citizen?

What do you know about Sikh's holy places?It stretches from Himachal to Bihar to Maharashtra.

There are only 27 million Sikhs in the world, with around 80% in India. They dont have enough numbers to warrant a homeland in this area.

Their two main holy sites are located in Punjab. Muslims have holy sites from Mecca to Jerusalem.

Sikhs could live in Pakistan , they will be given their own status as a religion and be living in a united Punjab.