Anyone at PakPassion who takes interest in the End of Times, especially Mahdi and Dajjal?

[BunnyRabbit]

Couldn't agree more. It was my first eye opener but by no means dead accurate depiction of predictions made.

but the impending war on palestine/israel is intriguing though.

 

[gazza619]

I feel how things are going in this world, something is going to happen very soon.

Is Dajjal already making the calls.

 

[sweep_shot]

I feel how things are going in this world, something is going to happen very soon.

Is Dajjal already making the calls.

It is quite possible.

I have a feeling there is a possible connection between Dajjal and modern day Israel. Allah (SWT) knows best.

As per Hadith, Isa (AS) is supposed to kill Dajjal at the Gate of Ludd (which is in Israel). Reference: https://sunnah.com/tirmidhi:2244.

 

[Saanji]

It is quite possible.

I have a feeling there is a possible connection between Dajjal and modern day Israel. Allah (SWT) knows best.

As per Hadith, Isa (AS) is supposed to kill Dajjal at the Gate of Ludd (which is in Israel). Reference: https://sunnah.com/tirmidhi:2244.

Why are all magical things happening in Middle East. Ignoring China America's Australia and Antarctica.

 

[I think therfore I am]

Watch videos by Imran Hossein very interesting

 

[Major]

Why are all magical things happening in Middle East. Ignoring China America's Australia and Antarctica.

read history of these places and there importance first and you will find your answer

 

[Justcrazy]

I feel how things are going in this world, something is going to happen very soon.

Is Dajjal already making the calls.

Dajjal is nothing without his supporters . His worshipers have been making way for him for several years now.

 

[Justcrazy]

It is quite possible.

I have a feeling there is a possible connection between Dajjal and modern day Israel. Allah (SWT) knows best.

As per Hadith, Isa (AS) is supposed to kill Dajjal at the Gate of Ludd (which is in Israel). Reference: https://sunnah.com/tirmidhi:2244.

They made an airport there

 

[Poseidon]

according to Islamic predictions , Arab will pay the price and , Arab will be massacred , Masjid Al-aqsa will be demolish by Israel and Greater Israel will become the reality but it wont much last .

 

[Poseidon]

according to Islamic predictions , Arab will pay the price and , Arab will be massacred , Masjid Al-aqsa will be demolish by Israel and Greater Israel will become the reality but it wont much last .

and Allah (SWT) knows best.

 

[Poseidon]

The Jesus (PBUH) will come to kill Dajjal

Abu Hurayrah also relates that the Prophet (peace be upon him) also said (Sunan Abi Dawud (4324) and Musnad Ahmad (8902)):

“Both in this world and in the Hereafter, I am the nearest of all the people to Jesus, the son of Mary. The Prophets are brothers of the same father with different mothers, and their religion is one. I am the closest in relationship to Jesus, the son of Mary, because there was no prophet between him and me.

Jesus will descend. If you see him, then know him. He is a man of a moderately ruddy complexion. He will be wearing two faintly yellow garments. His hair will seem to have drops of water upon it, even though it will not be wet.

He will strive with the people for Islam. He will break the cross, kill the swine, and abolish the poll-tax. Allah will make all sects to come to an end during his time except Islam, and Allah will cause the Antichrist to perish.

Jesus will live for forty years, and then he shall die. The Muslims will conduct his (funeral) prayer and bury him.”

and Allah (SWT) knows best .

 

[KingKhanWC]

The Jesus (PBUH) will come to kill Dajjal

Abu Hurayrah also relates that the Prophet (peace be upon him) also said (Sunan Abi Dawud (4324) and Musnad Ahmad (8902)):

“Both in this world and in the Hereafter, I am the nearest of all the people to Jesus, the son of Mary. The Prophets are brothers of the same father with different mothers, and their religion is one. I am the closest in relationship to Jesus, the son of Mary, because there was no prophet between him and me.

Jesus will descend. If you see him, then know him. He is a man of a moderately ruddy complexion. He will be wearing two faintly yellow garments. His hair will seem to have drops of water upon it, even though it will not be wet.

He will strive with the people for Islam. He will break the cross, kill the swine, and abolish the poll-tax. Allah will make all sects to come to an end during his time except Islam, and Allah will cause the Antichrist to perish.

Jesus will live for forty years, and then he shall die. The Muslims will conduct his (funeral) prayer and bury him.”

and Allah (SWT) knows best .

20 years ago, I woke up to see my room window with rain stains on it. As I went closer, I noticed a face. I thought I was dreaming or not woken up properly , so washed up in the bathroom and returned. I stood there for a very long time looking at the bottom right corner of the window. There was a very detailed face, almost like a painting by a master painter. I thought it was just an awesome coincidence of nature, the rain stains made this... I have no idea but seeing the world today, it could possibly of been the face of the True Messiah.

I really dont want to be in the end times, I love sport and travel, not to mention family and friends.

Sadly , I think we are there now, not sure how far into it all the signs along with world events add up to the prophecies.

 

[jeetu]

I like reading about Armageddon theories. Islamic version is fascinating too. Western media tend to stay away from it. But "Dune" by Frank Herbert was fascinating take on it. It was sad that Netflix cancelled "Messiah" after 1 season because it could have provided a good take on Dajjal.

 

[SalimBhai]

Some comedic posts.

 

[Cricket Warrior]

according to Islamic predictions , Arab will pay the price and , Arab will be massacred , Masjid Al-aqsa will be demolish by Israel and Greater Israel will become the reality but it wont much last .

Not necessarily only Arabs will pay the price but it will be a test of beliefs for all Muslims around the world.

 

[Stewie]

There will be no end of times. Lahore high court will give it a stay order. Ker lo jo kerna hai

 

[Stewie]

Why are all magical things happening in Middle East. Ignoring China America's Australia and Antarctica.

Magical things like to avoid COVId, genocidal European immigrants and Mexican drug dealers, poisonous exotic critters and the cold

 

[BouncerGuy]

Those who follow the Islamic way of life will surely be agreeing upon the arrival of the end of times and the arrival of Dajjal and Imam Mehdi. This is one of the main beliefs for Muslims that such time will come.

 

[smkk]

Practicings and believing muslims, do you all believe that end times are near ?

 

[Stewie]

Those who follow the Islamic way of life will surely be agreeing upon the arrival of the end of times and the arrival of Dajjal and Imam Mehdi. This is one of the main beliefs for Muslims that such time will come.

Just so you know there is no mention of it in the Quran. It is not one of the main articles of faith. It’s based on certain traditions in Hadith.

A lot of it is derived from JudeoChristian traditions as well.

 

[Champ_Pal]

20 years ago, I woke up to see my room window with rain stains on it. As I went closer, I noticed a face. I thought I was dreaming or not woken up properly , so washed up in the bathroom and returned. I stood there for a very long time looking at the bottom right corner of the window. There was a very detailed face, almost like a painting by a master painter. I thought it was just an awesome coincidence of nature, the rain stains made this... I have no idea but seeing the world today, it could possibly of been the face of the True Messiah.

I really dont want to be in the end times, I love sport and travel, not to mention family and friends.

Sadly , I think we are there now, not sure how far into it all the signs along with world events add up to the prophecies.

Seeing faces in clouds, trees is what human brains do. Our brains can make us see anything in a random disorganized information or noise.

 

[Cricket Warrior]

Well, I do, but I really want to know about the beliefs of other religions. I mean, what are the beliefs of our Hindu brothers here about the day of judgement?

 

[BouncerGuy]

Just so you know there is no mention of it in the Quran. It is not one of the main articles of faith. It’s based on certain traditions in Hadith.

A lot of it is derived from JudeoChristian traditions as well.

Chapter 81 and 82 of the HOLY QURAN have everything you need to know. Chapter 56 verse 4 onwards has that as well. It is not just the Hadith brother. HOLY QURAN has many references for this.

 

[Stewie]

Chapter 81 and 82 of the HOLY QURAN have everything you need to know. Chapter 56 verse 4 onwards has that as well. It is not just the Hadith brother. HOLY QURAN has many references for this.

Can you quote the exact verses of these chapters that talk about the return of Mahdi? And the Dajjal? The one verse you cited does not takk about Dajjal or Mahdi.

I suggest you do proper research next time. All the talk of Mahdi and Dajjal is from Hadith. Nothing in Quran

 

[Stewie]

Well, I do, but I really want to know about the beliefs of other religions. I mean, what are the beliefs of our Hindu brothers here about the day of judgement?

There is no concept of day of judgment in Hinduism. They have reincarnation. And karma. If you do bad deeds you will pay for it in the next life by being born as a less fortunate person or maybe not even human. Eventually you achieve moksha if you do good deeds. I am still not very clear on it but have some rudimentary understanding

 

[Lonewarrior]

Can you quote the exact verses of these chapters that talk about the return of Mahdi? And the Dajjal? The one verse you cited does not takk about Dajjal or Mahdi.

I suggest you do proper research next time. All the talk of Mahdi and Dajjal is from Hadith. Nothing in Quran

you do know who reject Sahi Hadith ? just asking .

 

[Stewie]

you do know who reject Sahi Hadith ? just asking .

I do but I am curious why you are asking me this question. I just stated facts, didn’t reject any hadith. It’s a very important part of Islamic jurisprudence and a guiding light for our way of life. But is it a main article of faith?

Show me where in the Quran there is mention of Dajjal and Mahdi.
That’s all I am asking. I have stated already Mahdi is a tradition in hadith.

Can you please quote me the main articles of faith in the Muslim tradition? Perhaps we can start the discussion from there.

 

[The Bald Eagle]

No 50 countries can relieve Palestinians of their misery, but it is only near the end of times the Israel will get wiped out with the second coming of Jesus (PBUH) and Imam Mehdi (AS)

 

[sweep_shot]

No 50 countries can relieve Palestinians of their misery, but it is only near the end of times the Israel will get wiped out with the second coming of Jesus (PBUH) and Imam Mehdi (AS)

I also believe there is a possible connection among Israel, Dajjal/Antichrist, and end of times. Allah (SWT) knows best.

There is a Hadith that says Prophet Jesus/Isa (PBUH) will kill Dajjal at the gate of Ludd. Gate of Ludd is located in modern day Israel. Reference: https://sunnah.com/tirmidhi:2244.

 

[Bhaijaan]

I was not sure about this but ever since i became a born again Sanatani, I became a firm believer in the Kalki Puran and the end of Kalyuga by the return of 10th avatar of Bhagwan Vishnu.

 

[Bhaijaan]

No 50 countries can relieve Palestinians of their misery, but it is only near the end of times the Israel will get wiped out with the second coming of Jesus (PBUH) and Imam Mehdi (AS)

So you are calling out for the genocide of the Jewish community and the end to the one and only Jewish homeland.

This is after having 59 countries in the name of Islam.

A typical Muslim.

 

[The Bald Eagle]

So you are calling out for the genocide of the Jewish community and the end to the one and only Jewish homeland.

This is after having 59 countries in the name of Islam.

A typical Muslim.

Its a Islamic prophecy and the actions of zionest justifying why every bit of it what awaits them. Have you read only the news today 250 innocent people have been killed in a Gaza school

 

[BunnyRabbit]

So you are calling out for the genocide of the Jewish community and the end to the one and only Jewish homeland.

This is after having 59 countries in the name of Islam.

A typical Muslim.

Israel doesn't represent Judaism but Zionism. There are a lot of Jews who disagree with the policies of Israel as well. Just so you know, there are more Jews in US than there are in Israel.

 

[sweep_shot]

Israel doesn't represent Judaism but Zionism. There are a lot of Jews who disagree with the policies of Israel as well. Just so you know, there are more Jews in US than there are in Israel.

Correct.

There are Jews who oppose Israel. As a matter of fact, many religious/ultraorthodox Jews tend to oppose state of Israel. See below:

 

[Bhaijaan]

Israel doesn't represent Judaism but Zionism. There are a lot of Jews who disagree with the policies of Israel as well. Just so you know, there are more Jews in US than there are in Israel.

Just like there are many Muslims who speak against Islam. What’s the point?

Jews have one homeland and they have the complete right to it. They paid the iron price to it and beat the neighbouring Arab nations to pulp to reclaim the holy land.

Muslims have 50 nations and no special rights to claim any more countries.

 

[Champ_Pal]

Its a Islamic prophecy and the actions of zionest justifying why every bit of it what awaits them. Have you read only the news today 250 innocent people have been killed in a Gaza school

For you it’s a prophecy, but the fact is, it is calling for genocide of millions of Israelis.

 

[The Bald Eagle]

So you are calling out for the genocide of the Jewish community and the end to the one and only Jewish homeland.

This is after having 59 countries in the name of Islam.

A typical Muslim.

Brother bunny rabbit really explained it well above and also to comprehend these prophecies correctly you need to be aware of the context etc and for which you need to read hadiths pertaining s to end of times. If you are sincerely curious then you should try.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Just like there are many Muslims who speak against Islam. What’s the point?

Jews have one homeland and they have the complete right to it. They paid the iron price to it and beat the neighbouring Arab nations to pulp to reclaim the holy land.

Muslims have 50 nations and no special rights to claim any more countries.

Wrong again.
The "Muslims" who speak against Islam aren't practicing Muslims and like to label themselves "liberals" "realists" etc etc

Having a country isn't a part of Judaism and a lot of Jews who speak against Israel's policies don't speak against Judaism but specifically one country. Zionist movement started in late 1800s, does that make all the Jews for over a 1000 years non religious than those that came afterwards?

Discussing Abrahamic religious ethos with followers of polytheistic religions is a paradox in itself and you will never understand the perspective of the 3 religions involved in the whole row.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

For you it’s a prophecy, but the fact is, it is calling for genocide of millions of Israelis.

As if there's not a genocide occurring already of people who are not Israelites?

Prophecy relates to an event that is going to happen no matter what which is our belief. And I am sure Christians believe their prophecies will happen as well and so do the Jews. If you are so against it, go and try to prevent it. Achieve world peace however you want to.

Christian, Muslims and Jews have an intertwined concept of end times that followers of these religions can discuss knowing they can get their point of view across. I am sorry but you, it's like hitting a brick wall.

 

[Champ_Pal]

As if there's not a genocide occurring already of people who are not Israelites?

Prophecy relates to an event that is going to happen no matter what which is our belief. And I am sure Christians believe their prophecies will happen as well and so do the Jews. If you are so against it, go and try to prevent it. Achieve world peace however you want to.

Christian, Muslims and Jews have an intertwined concept of end times that followers of these religions can discuss knowing they can get their point of view across. I am sorry but you, it's like hitting a brick wall.

If Hamas drops the weapons and surrenders, the war will stop. If they stop hiding behind women and children, then collateral damage will be drastically reduced. But we all know Hamas is still fighting. They only know how to attack. Defending is alien to them and they don't think through the consequences of their actions.

If the Prophecies involve genocide of a nation, would you agree with that?

Does Jewish and Christian end times involves genocide of any particular nation?

 

[BunnyRabbit]

If Hamas drops the weapons and surrenders, the war will stop. If they stop hiding behind women and children, then collateral damage will be drastically reduced. But we all know Hamas is still fighting. They only know how to attack. Defending is alien to them and they don't think through the consequences of their actions.

If the Prophecies involve genocide of a nation, would you agree with that?

Does Jewish and Christian end times involves genocide of any particular nation?

All three abrahamic faiths' end times involve elimination of evil people in power. It's different as to how they interpret it.
Israel, Syria, Palesine, Jordan is still the nexus of area where the big events are supposed to take place.

lol at hamas being the insurgents. They are not even that much in number to cause all the trouble that's been going on for over 70 years. Israel's motive is to expand and take over all the area it pleases.

If it was India where they wanted to make a homeland, then I would have loved to hear how they were rightfully claiming what is theirs.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

If Hamas drops the weapons and surrenders, the war will stop. If they stop hiding behind women and children, then collateral damage will be drastically reduced. But we all know Hamas is still fighting. They only know how to attack. Defending is alien to them and they don't think through the consequences of their actions.

If the Prophecies involve genocide of a nation, would you agree with that?

Does Jewish and Christian end times involves genocide of any particular nation?

I think you are living in an alternate reality.

Israel has backed out of ceasefire deal 3 times despite the US backing it and trying to force them to sign.

Israel then killed the chief negotiator for Hamas.

Israel is facing massive internal criticism for its handling of the war, particularly from the families of the hostages who feel Netanyahu is delaying the war to protect his own future.

 

[Justcrazy]

Can you quote the exact verses of these chapters that talk about the return of Mahdi? And the Dajjal? The one verse you cited does not takk about Dajjal or Mahdi.

I suggest you do proper research next time. All the talk of Mahdi and Dajjal is from Hadith. Nothing in Quran

Quran does not talk about all things , if it was supposed to speak about all , it would need probably 100 volumes.

 

[Justcrazy]

I do but I am curious why you are asking me this question. I just stated facts, didn’t reject any hadith. It’s a very important part of Islamic jurisprudence and a guiding light for our way of life. But is it a main article of faith?

Show me where in the Quran there is mention of Dajjal and Mahdi.
That’s all I am asking. I have stated already Mahdi is a tradition in hadith.

Can you please quote me the main articles of faith in the Muslim tradition? Perhaps we can start the discussion from there.

yes you are right Believing in Mahdi is not basic tenets of Islam but there are authentic hadeeth about that.

 

[KingKhanWC]

If the Prophecies involve genocide of a nation, would you agree with that?

Does Jewish and Christian end times involves genocide of any particular nation?

Yes …each other . Lol

It is the Jewish & Christian Zionist Messianics who not only believe but have been actively pursuing greater israel which means Christians believe Jews will be wiped out & vice versa. This is in the open . This is what happens with little knowledge on the subject, pls learn more .

 

[The Bald Eagle]

Yes …each other . Lol

It is the Jewish & Christian Zionist Messianics who not only believe but have been actively pursuing greater israel which means Christians believe Jews will be wiped out & vice versa. This is in the open . This is what happens with little knowledge on the subject, pls learn more .

Its so funny how jews and christians zions forsee the total capitulation of another near the end of times.

 

[Champ_Pal]

Yes …each other . Lol

It is the Jewish & Christian Zionist Messianics who not only believe but have been actively pursuing greater israel which means Christians believe Jews will be wiped out & vice versa. This is in the open . This is what happens with little knowledge on the subject, pls learn more .

When Son of Yahweh Jesus gave that Prophecy, there were no Arabs in the holy land.

When Prophet Muhammad gave the prophecy, Jews have already been living in holy land for over 1000 years.

Did Jews say that the end times, they will kill all Christians and Muslims?

Did Christian end times say that they will kill all Jews and Muslims?

On the other hand Islamic end times clearly tells what will happen to Jews.

So before deflecting the topic, read your hadees.

 

[KingKhanWC]

When Son of Yahweh Jesus gave that Prophecy, there were no Arabs in the holy land.

When Prophet Muhammad gave the prophecy, Jews have already been living in holy land for over 1000 years.

Did Jews say that the end times, they will kill all Christians and Muslims?

Did Christian end times say that they will kill all Jews and Muslims?

On the other hand Islamic end times clearly tells what will happen to Jews.

So before deflecting the topic, read your hadees.

Yes they do lol


Stop now , go read Jewish & Christian end time prophecies . Do you think they say Hindus will be fine ? Lol

 

[KingKhanWC]

You shall utterly destroy all the places [when idolatry was practiced]... you shall overthrow their altars, break their pillars, burn their asherim [sacred trees] with fire, cut down the carvings of their gods, and wipe out their name from the place [they were worshipped]” (Deuteronomy 12:3).

 

[Champ_Pal]

Yes they do lol


Stop now , go read Jewish & Christian end time prophecies . Do you think they say Hindus will be fine ? Lol

Read about Jewish end times.

End of Days | Aish

What does Judaism say about an apocalyptic final event. How will it play out?

aish.com

Read about Christian end times.

What Are the Main Views of the End Times? | Core Christianity

corechristianity.com

I don't see anywhere where the Torah or Bible says that it will kill people that do not follow their cult.

Can you post links to what you are claiming? I will call them genocidal cults if they did.

 

[Stewie]

Read about Jewish end times.

End of Days | Aish

What does Judaism say about an apocalyptic final event. How will it play out?

aish.com

Read about Christian end times.

What Are the Main Views of the End Times? | Core Christianity

corechristianity.com

I don't see anywhere where the Torah or Bible says that it will kill people that do not follow their cult.

Can you post links to what you are claiming? I will call them genocidal cults if they did.

Revelation 19:11
Context Summary
Revelation 19:11–21 presents one of Scripture's most spectacular moments of victory: the second coming of Jesus Christ. In this event, Christ returns to earth at the close of the tribulation. At His first coming to earth, Jesus appeared as a baby and sacrificial Savior. This time, He arrives as King of kings and Lord of lords. Many prior Scriptures prophesied this epic day of victory (Matthew 25; Zechariah 14:1–4; 2 Thessalonians 2:7–12; Hebrews 9:27–28; Jude 1:14–15). Christ arrives in a blaze of glory, obliterating His enemies single-handedly, at the head of the armies of heaven. The Antichrist and False Prophet become the first two cast into the lake of fire, ushering in the beginning of Christ's millennial reign on earth.

 

[Champ_Pal]

Revelation 19:11
Context Summary
Revelation 19:11–21 presents one of Scripture's most spectacular moments of victory: the second coming of Jesus Christ. In this event, Christ returns to earth at the close of the tribulation. At His first coming to earth, Jesus appeared as a baby and sacrificial Savior. This time, He arrives as King of kings and Lord of lords. Many prior Scriptures prophesied this epic day of victory (Matthew 25; Zechariah 14:1–4; 2 Thessalonians 2:7–12; Hebrews 9:27–28; Jude 1:14–15). Christ arrives in a blaze of glory, obliterating His enemies single-handedly, at the head of the armies of heaven. The Antichrist and False Prophet become the first two cast into the lake of fire, ushering in the beginning of Christ's millennial reign on earth.

Did it say that he is going to kill Jews and Muslims or Polytheists?

When Jesus appears again, he is going to kill his enemies aka bad guys. No mention of killing all Jews or Muslims.

 

[The Bald Eagle]

Did it say that he is going to kill Jews and Muslims or Polytheists?

When Jesus appears again, he is going to kill his enemies aka bad guys. No mention of killing all Jews or Muslims.

Ask any Christian about interpretation of "enemies" here.

 

[Stewie]

Did it say that he is going to kill Jews and Muslims or Polytheists?

When Jesus appears again, he is going to kill his enemies aka bad guys. No mention of killing all Jews or Muslims.

what is your point? Are you claiming in Islam Jews or Christians will be killed on Qiyamah? I am confused as to the point you are trying to make. If you have a claim, and I am sure its as always Islamophobic (why else would you come and post on PP), please cite some Islamic source or reference for that claim rather than simply positing made up Hindu theories.

 

[Champ_Pal]

Ask any Christian about interpretation of "enemies" here.

If the enemies include the entire Jewish nation, then I will call that a genocidal cult.

@RexRex?

 

[Stewie]

Ask any Christian about interpretation of "enemies" here.

Let him first explain what he is trying to say here. I can easily tear down this whole narrative. I am pretty sure he is collecting his views from some Christian anti Muslim site. Doing a cut and paste job.

 

[oatmeal]

Some myths like great flood, end of times, immaculate conception have existed in every civilisation. These are just fables passed down, changed a lot over the centuries and then at some point were written down and became more concrete.

Human civilisation will come to an end at some point, but its more likely that this will be attritional and caused by localised conflicts which balloon into something much bigger. Not the dramatic way the religions predict

 

[BunnyRabbit]

I'd describe such people as "na teen main na 13 main"

Let him first explain what he is trying to say here. I can easily tear down this whole narrative. I am pretty sure he is collecting his views from some Christian anti Muslim site. Doing a cut and paste job.

 

[RexRex]

If the enemies include the entire Jewish nation, then I will call that a genocidal cult.

@RexRex?

Nobody knows what the Book of Revelations means or how to interpret them, even Christians. Neither does the church. Nor does Stewie.

It is a mystery that many think will be revealed in time. That's why so many movies refer to that book which mentions the devil's number 666.

 

[CricketCartoons]

I take a lot of interest in my end of times. How will I die. Will I have someone next to me to hold my hands when I die, or will it be during an accident when I am not ready for it? Will my life flash before my eyes? Will I die in peace, thinking that I did whatever I could, and this is my end? Or will I die with regret and pain, that I left things unfinished or not being there to console those who will suffer after my death?

These and many thoughts do come to my mind when I think of my end of times.

 

[RexRex]

If you have a claim, and I am sure its as always Islamophobic (why else would you come and post on PP), please cite some Islamic source or reference for that claim rather than simply positing made up Hindu theories.

The easiest way to reveal someone's religious insecurities and shut down a discussion is to play the Islamophobia card, something you are proficient at. I appreciate people who are willing to answer anything that's thrown at them, that's the sign of someone who is confident in his faith.

 

[Stewie]

The easiest way to reveal someone's religious insecurities and shut down a discussion is to play the Islamophobia card, something you are proficient at. I appreciate people who are willing to answer anything that's thrown at them, that's the sign of someone who confident in his faith.

It does not take much to arrive at that conclusion. It is easy for you to make such a blanket statement, but perhaps try and look at the discussions I engage in.

You and a few others are the exceptions but a majority of the Hindu posters on such threads bring a very clear and staunch anti Islam agenda. I have seen such Hindu posters here try to attack our faith from different angles: from the athiest angle to claim God does not exist, to the ridiculous notion that Muslims will conduct a genocide of Christians and Jews during end times to the allegation that Muslims cause mass collapse of countries when they migrate there en masse.

All I ask is to provide us with evidence or else what conclusion can I really draw from such persistent insinuations from such quarters? Maybe you can enlighten us as to how to react?

Let us just take this thread as an example. The guy I am trying to engage with stopped responding after I asked him a very simple question. You attack our faith and religion and pretend as if you know more about it than we do and when we ask you to back your claims using our scripture, you run away? (By you, I am not pointing my finger at you, I hope you understand that)

I feel the relaxed policies of this forum and the more than welcoming and accommodating behavior of the MODS is emboldening a lot of hate speech and targeted uncalled criticism of Muslims and Islam as a faith by the bigoted Hindus here. I appreciate the more sensible Hindus who stand up to defend us at times, I want to make sure your efforts do not go unnoticed. But this is overall not a good dynamic to have here. We all have more in common than not. We can get along with our own faiths in place and show mutual respect rather than engaging in such frivolous crap.

 

[Champ_Pal]

It does not take much to arrive at that conclusion. It is easy for you to make such a blanket statement, but perhaps try and look at the discussions I engage in.

You and a few others are the exceptions but a majority of the Hindu posters on such threads bring a very clear and staunch anti Islam agenda. I have seen such Hindu posters here try to attack our faith from different angles: from the athiest angle to claim God does not exist, to the ridiculous notion that Muslims will conduct a genocide of Christians and Jews during end times to the allegation that Muslims cause mass collapse of countries when they migrate there en masse.

All I ask is to provide us with evidence or else what conclusion can I really draw from such persistent insinuations from such quarters? Maybe you can enlighten us as to how to react?

Let us just take this thread as an example. The guy I am trying to engage with stopped responding after I asked him a very simple question. You attack our faith and religion and pretend as if you know more about it than we do and when we ask you to back your claims using our scripture, you run away? (By you, I am not pointing my finger at you, I hope you understand that)

I feel the relaxed policies of this forum and the more than welcoming and accommodating behavior of the MODS is emboldening a lot of hate speech and targeted uncalled criticism of Muslims and Islam as a faith by the bigoted Hindus here. I appreciate the more sensible Hindus who stand up to defend us at times, I want to make sure your efforts do not go unnoticed. But this is overall not a good dynamic to have here. We all have more in common than not. We can get along with our own faiths in place and show mutual respect rather than engaging in such frivolous crap.

It is not our claim that there will be a Jewish genocide. It is the Prophecy of Prophet PBUH in your Hadiths.

I am sure you know the prophecy. I don’t have to post it here. Don’t shoot the messenger.

 

[Stewie]

It is not our claim that there will be a Jewish genocide. It is the Prophecy of Prophet PBUH in your Hadiths.

I am sure you know the prophecy. I don’t have to post it here. Don’t shoot the messenger.

No actually I don't know it. Why don't you be so kind and post it here. And since its a Hadith, I would like to see the sources and narration as well so we can determine how sahi it is.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

If the enemies include the entire Jewish nation, then I will call that a genocidal cult.

@RexRex?

Where doe it say entire Jewish nation?

 

[Champ_Pal]

No actually I don't know it. Why don't you be so kind and post it here. And since its a Hadith, I would like to see the sources and narration as well so we can determine how sahi it is.

Sahih al-Bukhari 2926 - Fighting for the Cause of Allah (Jihaad) - كتاب الجهاد والسير - Sunnah.com - Sayings and Teachings of Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه و سلم)

Hadith of the Prophet Muhammad (saws) in English and Arabic

sunnah.com

Narrated Abu Huraira:
Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) said, "The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. "O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him."


This is a Sahih Hadith. Waiting for your response.

 

[Stewie]

Sahih al-Bukhari 2926 - Fighting for the Cause of Allah (Jihaad) - كتاب الجهاد والسير - Sunnah.com - Sayings and Teachings of Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه و سلم)

Hadith of the Prophet Muhammad (saws) in English and Arabic

sunnah.com

Narrated Abu Huraira:
Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) said, "The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. "O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him."


This is a Sahih Hadith. Waiting for your response.

ok good, so now we have established which Hadith you are using to make your case.

First of all the Hadith by itself does not signify the context. This Hadith is not establishing that ALL JEWS are to be killed. There are plenty of Ahadith which speak to the protection of Jews, Christians and other non Muslims living under Muslim rule.

In order to get the broader context of this Hadith, please refer to this link:

In the battle between the Jews and the Muslims at the end of time, the aggressors will be the Jews - Islam Question & Answer

islamqa.info

The point I would like emphasize here is taken from the link above: Al-Bukhari (3593) and Muslim (2921) narrated from the hadith of Ibn ‘Umar (may Allah be pleased with him) that he said: I heard the Messenger of Allah (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) say: “The Jews will fight you and you will prevail over them, then a rock will say: ‘O Muslim, here is a Jew behind me; kill him.’”


So the above is not any different from what Christian and Jewish traditions state in terms of the antiChrist, DAJJAL, etc. That the one evil person will appear and will have followers and that some Jews will be followers of that person and they "will fight you". It does not call for unprovoked genocide. It calls for a war to defend yourself and to kill those who oppose you and some of them will be Jews.

This is no different from any Christian or Jewish tradition. They all speak to nonbelievers or evil doers and to wage war against them.

Hope this makes sense. For further elaboration I will copy and paste from the link above:

Firstly:

Islam is the religion of mercy and peace, as the questioner describes it. Therefore, Islam allowed the Jews and Christians to remain in Muslim lands, and did not expel them or kill them, as they did and still do when they gain control over Muslim lands. That is in accordance with the treaty between them and the Islamic state, with both parties having rights and duties. So long as they continue to adhere to those conditions, they have the right to enjoy that right of residence and security.

Hence Islam offers protection to ahl adh-dhimmah in Muslim lands, and defends their rights if they adhere to the conditions of residence, to the extent that the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) said: “Whoever kills a mu‘ahid (non-Muslim living under Muslim rule) will not smell the fragrance of Paradise, even though its fragrance may be detected from a distance of forty years.” Narrated by al-Bukhari (3166).

And he (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) said: “Whoever wrongs a mu‘ahid, detracts from his rights, burdens him with more work than he is able to do or takes something from him without his consent, I will plead for him (the mu‘ahid) – or I will be the opponent of (the Muslim who wronged him) – on the Day of Resurrection.”

Narrated by Abu Dawood (3052); classed as hasan by Ibn Hajar in Muwafaqat al-Khabr (2/184); classed as saheeh by al-Albani in Saheeh Abi Dawood.

But if they break the conditions – such as if they commit acts of betrayal or treachery, or they prepare to fight us or help our enemies, and the like – then they have broken the treaty, and in that case there is no treaty between us and them, and they do not deserve to reside in security as they did not uphold the treaty.

Secondly:

Yes, the Muslims used to coexist with the Jews and treat them well, so long as they adhere to the conditions of residence. But they may choose to be treacherous. It is sufficient for you to know that when the Messenger (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) migrated to Madinah, there were three Jewish tribes in the city, namely Banu Qaynuqa‘, Banu an-Nadeer and Banu Qurayzah. He made treaties with all of them and agreed to live in peace with all of them, but they all committed acts of treachery and betrayal.

Therefore the Messenger (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) fought them, killing some of them and banishing others beyond Madinah, and he did not allow them to remain in the city.

Thirdly:

Al-Bukhari (3593) and Muslim (2921) narrated from the hadith of Ibn ‘Umar (may Allah be pleased with him) that he said: I heard the Messenger of Allah (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) say: “The Jews will fight you and you will prevail over them, then a rock will say: ‘O Muslim, here is a Jew behind me; kill him.’”

In Saheeh Muslim (2922), it is narrated from the hadith of Abu Hurayrah that the Messenger of Allah (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) said: “The Hour will not begin until the Muslims fight the Jews and the Muslims will kill them, until a Jew hides behind a rock or a tree, and the rock or tree will say: O Muslim, O slave of Allah, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him. Except the gharqad (a thorny tree), for it is one of the trees of the Jews.”

In some reports there is an indication that the fighting against the Jews that is mentioned in this hadith will occur at the end of time, when the Dajjal emerges and the Messiah ‘Eesa ibn Maryam (peace be upon him) descends and fights him.

‘Abdullah ibn ‘Umar (may Allah be pleased with him) narrated that the Messenger of Allah (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) said: “The Dajjal will camp in this salty, barren ground in Marr Qanat [a valley in Madinah], and most of those who go out to him will be women, to the extent that a man will go back to his relative, to his mother, his daughter, his sister and his paternal aunt, and will tie her up for fear that she may go out to him. Then Allah will give the Muslims power over him, and they will kill him and his party, until a Jew will hide beneath a tree or a rock, and the rock or tree will say to the Muslim: ‘Here is a Jew beneath me; kill him.’”

Narrated by Imam Ahmad in al-Musnad (9/255). But there is some weakness in its isnad because of the ‘an‘anah of Muhammad ibn Is-haq [i.e., narration by saying ‘an (from) rather than saying So and so said/told us]. There are other corroborating reports; see the commentary on al-Musnad in the Mu’sasat ar-Risalah edition.

These corroborating reports were quoted by al-Hafiz Ibn Hajar (may Allah have mercy on him) in Fath al-Bari (6/610); he classed as hasan the hadith of Samurah ibn Jundub (may Allah be pleased with him), then he said: What is meant by fighting the Jews is that this will happen when the Dajjal emerges and ‘Eesa descends. End quote.

Ibn al-Mulqin said: What is meant by the words “You will fight the Jews” is that this will happen when ‘Eesa descends; the Muslims will be with him and the Jews will be with the Dajjal.

End quote from at-Tawdeeh li Sharh al-Jami‘ as-Saheeh (17/663).

This is what was stated definitively by a number of commentators on the hadith. In fact Imam at-Tirmidhi (2236) narrated the hadith of ‘Abdullah ibn ‘Umar, which is quoted above, in the chapter entitled The Signs of the Dajjal (‘Alamaat ad-Dajjal).

Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah (may Allah have mercy on him) said:

The Jews are in fact awaiting the false messiah (al-maseeh ad-dajjal), for he is the one whom the Jews will follow. Seventy thousand of the Jews of Isfahan wearing tayalisah (a kind of head covering) will emerge with him. The Muslims will fight them with him, to the extent that trees and rocks will say: “O Muslim, here is a Jew behind me; come and kill him.”

End quote from al-Jawab as-Saheeh li man baddala Deen al-Maseeh (2/30).

Ash-Shaykh Ibn Baz (may Allah have mercy on him) said:

‘Eesa (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) will fight him, supported by the Muslims, and he will kill him at the gate of al-Ludd (Lod), which is in Palestine, near al-Quds (Jerusalem). He will kill him with his spear, as it says in the saheeh hadith, and the Muslims who are with him will kill a great number of the Jews. It says in the hadith from the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) that the Muslims will fight the Jews, and will kill them and gain power over them, and trees and rocks will call out: O Muslim, O slave of Allah, here is a Jew; come and kill him. And ‘Eesa will kill the Dajjal and put an end to him.

End quote from Fatawa Noor ‘ala ad-Darb by Ibn Baz, ed by ash-Shuway‘ir (4/290)

When the Dajjal emerges, thousands of the Jews will follow him and rally around him, aiming to fight the Muslims. Then the Messiah ‘Eesa ibn Maryam (peace be upon him) will descend and the Muslims will rally around him to fight the Dajjal and his followers. ‘Eesa ibn Maryam will call the Jews to Islam, and he will not accept anything from them at that time except Islam. Some of them will become Muslim and some of them will remain followers of Judaism, then will come the battle that the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) mentioned.

Thus it is clear that the battle, for the Muslims, will be a just and legitimate battle that Allah, may He be exalted, undoubtedly approves of. This is indicated by the following:

· It will be against the Dajjal and his supporters who gathered to fight the Muslims. “They (the disbelievers, the Jews and the Christians) want to extinguish Allah’s Light (with which Muhammad (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) has been sent - Islamic Monotheism) with their mouths, but Allah will not allow except that His Light should be perfected even though the Kafiroon (disbelievers) hate (it)” [at-Tawbah 9:32].

· It will be a battle fought by the Muslims under the leadership of ‘Eesa ibn Maryam (peace be upon him), one of the noble Messengers.

· Allah, may He be exalted, will honour the Muslims in this battle with this miracle, which is that rocks and trees will speak and call the Muslims to come and kill the Jews who will be hiding behind them.

All of this indicates that it will be a just battle that Allah approves of, as was the case with all the Islamic battles in which the aim was to make the word of Allah supreme on earth. “Whoever fights so that the word of Allah will be supreme is fighting in the way of Allah.” Narrated by Muslim (1915).

And Allah knows best.

 

[sweep_shot]

@Champ_Pal often cherry picks a verse and misrepresents it. LOL. He doesn't have the context understandings.

Not sure why Islamophobes try to do this. They often end up looking silly.

 

[Champ_Pal]

@Champ_Pal often cherry picks a verse and misrepresents it. LOL. He doesn't have the context understandings.

Not sure why Islamophobes try to do this. They often end up looking silly.

Eagerly waiting on you to explain that context.

 

[Champ_Pal]

@Stewie

1) So Non-Muslims are allowed to live in Muslim lands as long as they adhere to the Muslim laws? There were no Muslim lands at the time of Holy Prophet. Those lands were all conquered from Polytheists, Jews and Christians.
Since you mentioned Dhimmis, lets see what Dhimmis can do under Islamic rule.
People of the Book AKA Jews/Christians are allowed to live under Muslim rule as long as they pay Jizya with their heads bowed in shame. Its a protection money so that their property is kept safe. Polytheists don't even have that option.
There are Hadiths that say that a Muslim should not say Salam to Jews and Jews need to be pushed to the narrowest part of the street aka drainage.


2) Holy Prophet went to Medina which was a Jewish city. He was a guest there seeking refuge. But he expelled the tribes from there and killed off one of the tribe (Banu Qureza). No male who reached puberty was spared.

Your post is too long to go through.

Even if the killing of Jews is reserved for end times, it is still bad. If I have a book that says that my God orders Indians to kill all Chinese at end times even if they are hiding behind a rock, will that be criticized or will it be ignored?

 

[DeadlyVenom]

@Stewie

1) So Non-Muslims are allowed to live in Muslim lands as long as they adhere to the Muslim laws? There were no Muslim lands at the time of Holy Prophet. Those lands were all conquered from Polytheists, Jews and Christians.
Since you mentioned Dhimmis, lets see what Dhimmis can do under Islamic rule.
People of the Book AKA Jews/Christians are allowed to live under Muslim rule as long as they pay Jizya with their heads bowed in shame. Its a protection money so that their property is kept safe. Polytheists don't even have that option.
There are Hadiths that say that a Muslim should not say Salam to Jews and Jews need to be pushed to the narrowest part of the street aka drainage.


2) Holy Prophet went to Medina which was a Jewish city. He was a guest there seeking refuge. But he expelled the tribes from there and killed off one of the tribe (Banu Qureza). No male who reached puberty was spared.

Your post is too long to go through.

Even if the killing of Jews is reserved for end times, it is still bad. If I have a book that says that my God orders Indians to kill all Chinese at end times even if they are hiding behind a rock, will that be criticized or will it be ignored?

Madina has a Jewish population but it wasn't a Jewish city.

Btw you are getting confused with your analogies. How are you comparing Jews/Muslims to Indians and Chinese? Do you think Jews are a religion or a race/nationality?

 

[Champ_Pal]

Madina has a Jewish population but it wasn't a Jewish city.

Btw you are getting confused with your analogies. How are you comparing Jews/Muslims to Indians and Chinese? Do you think Jews are a religion or a race/nationality?

There were no Muslims in Medina before the Hijrat. It was called Yathrib at that time and it was majority Jewish city with some Arab Pagans and Christians obviously.

I gave the analogy because China is nation just as Jews are a nation. Original Jews were all brown. You can call them a race too. Modern Jews have a lot of admixture in them for obvious reasons.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

There were no Muslims in Medina before the Hijrat. It was called Yathrib at that time and it was majority Jewish city with some Arab Pagans and Christians obviously.

I gave the analogy because China is nation just as Jews are a nation. Original Jews were all brown. You can call them a race too. Modern Jews have a lot of admixture in them for obvious reasons.

The Prophet was invited to Madina to settle dispute between the ruling tribes of Madina the aws and khazraj. There was a jerwish presence but it was not a jewish city at the time.

During the end times hadith you have been mentioning it is not talking about original jews or what colour they were though ,nor the jews as a race. For example Abdullah Ibn Salaam was an early convert to Islam from Judaism and was a companion of the Prophet.

Does the hadith include people like him as being killed?

 

[Varun]

I take a lot of interest in my end of times. How will I die. Will I have someone next to me to hold my hands when I die, or will it be during an accident when I am not ready for it? Will my life flash before my eyes? Will I die in peace, thinking that I did whatever I could, and this is my end? Or will I die with regret and pain, that I left things unfinished or not being there to console those who will suffer after my death?

These and many thoughts do come to my mind when I think of my end of times.

Here's hoping it isn't as nerve wracking as your brush with Covid-19.

 

[Champ_Pal]

The Prophet was invited to Madina to settle dispute between the ruling tribes of Madina the aws and khazraj. There was a jerwish presence but it was not a jewish city at the time.

During the end times hadith you have been mentioning it is not talking about original jews or what colour they were though ,nor the jews as a race. For example Abdullah Ibn Salaam was an early convert to Islam from Judaism and was a companion of the Prophet.

Does the hadith include people like him as being killed?

Jews were the single largest group in Yathrib. Jews there were very prosperous as usual.
Yathrib also had a significant presence of Christians and Arab Pagans.

Jews have been living in Yathrib for centuries. Prophet went there with a few dozen of his followers. He was pretty much a refugee as he claimed he was persecuted by Meccan Pagans.

The Hadith says that Jews will be killed. It did not mention whether they were converts or original ones.

Had the scriptures mentioned “Enemies of Islam” instead of Jews getting killed, no one cares. Here a particular group was mentioned and named clearly.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Jews were the single largest group in Yathrib. Jews there were very prosperous as usual.
Yathrib also had a significant presence of Christians and Arab Pagans.

Jews have been living in Yathrib for centuries. Prophet went there with a few dozen of his followers. He was pretty much a refugee as he claimed he was persecuted by Meccan Pagans.

The Hadith says that Jews will be killed. It did not mention whether they were converts or original ones.

Had the scriptures mentioned “Enemies of Islam” instead of Jews getting killed, no one cares. Here a particular group was mentioned and named clearly.

But you can't flip flop. Who is the particular group? Does it include Jewish converts to Islam? What about Arabs who have converted to Judaism.

Prophet was invited to Madina to lead. If Jews were in charge who invited him?

 

[Champ_Pal]

But you can't flip flop. Who is the particular group? Does it include Jewish converts to Islam? What about Arabs who have converted to Judaism.

Prophet was invited to Madina to lead. If Jews were in charge who invited him?

There were no Muslims in Yathrib until the Hijrat happened. Who cares if the Jews that will be killed at end times includes Jewish converts to Islam. The point is, Jews will be killed. That means there will not be any Jews left on the planet.

Prophet being invited to Yathrib is just from Islamic side of the story. Even if we take it as the truth, he had no business in kicking out entire tribes and then kill off one of them completely. If was invited to arbitrate some local issues, he should have resolved the issues. Wiping out entire tribes from that area sounds fishy.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

There were no Muslims in Yathrib until the Hijrat happened. Who cares if the Jews that will be killed at end times includes Jewish converts to Islam. The point is, Jews will be killed. That means there will not be any Jews left on the planet.

Prophet being invited to Yathrib is just from Islamic side of the story. Even if we take it as the truth, he had no business in kicking out entire tribes and then kill off one of them completely. If was invited to arbitrate some local issues, he should have resolved the issues. Wiping out entire tribes from that area sounds fishy.

Says who? You have already established that jews are a race and so they won't all be wiped out. Nor does the hadith say ALL jews will be wiped out.

What is the other side of the story about the Prophet being invited to Madina, and what was his business? He was appointed leader of the community in essentially a democratic process. What more do you want?

Saying there was no Muslims in Madina is a silly argument. There were no Muslims in Makkah either before the Prophet was sent to earth.

 

[Champ_Pal]

Says who? You have already established that jews are a race and so they won't all be wiped out. Nor does the hadith say ALL jews will be wiped out.

What is the other side of the story about the Prophet being invited to Madina, and what was his business? He was appointed leader of the community in essentially a democratic process. What more do you want?

Saying there was no Muslims in Madina is a silly argument. There were no Muslims in Makkah either before the Prophet was sent to earth.

Wrong logic from you.

There were no Muslims in Mecca either. But Prophet is from Mecca. It was his home city.

Prophet was invited to Yathrib to arbitrate the internal squabbles between various groups. Can you show me evidence that he was asked to be their king or leader? Why would Jews appoint a Pagan Arab from Mecca to be their leader?

The Hadith talks about killing the Jews. Questions will be raised when a nation/race is specifically mentioned and what will happen to them at end times. I have already mentioned that if the Hadith had said "Enemies of Islam" or "Bad Guys", no one will have problem. When a specific group of people are mentioned, it will be open for criticism.

 

[Bhaijaan]

Not worried one bit because I have firm faith in Bhagwaan.

When the end of times comes, he will rescue us.