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Anyone else worried about our Test bowling attack leading up to the South Africa Test series?

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AliMurtaza

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We still have the same question marks on our test bowling attack that we had before the Aus test series. It seems only Abbas is the test quality bowler we are left with. Yasir is struggling, Bilal is yet to fully convince and Mir Hamza had a meh sort of debut.

Unlike limited overs where we have likes of Hassan, Shaheen, Junaid, Shinwari, Amir and Rauman to work with, our test fast bowling cupboard seems empty. Hassan is still not test ready, Amir is yet to rediscover his pre-ban test form and no quality young pacers coming from domestic either. If I look at the Quaid-e-Azam trohpy stats for last 2 years, no young fast bowler stands out. We have the usual suspects like Tabish and Aizaz Cheema dominating the tables. Yes, perhaps you can make a case for Sadaf Hussain but his form has dipped in the last 3 years. I don't feel likes of Shaheen are ready for tests yet.

So, in a nut shell, I am worried about our fast bowling strength in tests. If you were to put a gun to my head, I would pick Abbas, Mir Hamza (not fully convinced) and Junaid Khan as 3 pacers for tests on the SA tour. But who else?

Worrying times ahead
 
It isn't that bad if we select the right guys. Someone like Junaid has been in great form lately. He bowls good lengths and does not rely on pace. Seems like he has realized what his strength is.

Also Mickey will have his favourite boys back for the difficult tour. There is no way on earth that he will not have Amir, Hasan and probably Shaheen in the squad.
 
Prince of Pakistan said:
Faheem will be Mickey's fourth pacer. He will replace Bilal in the eleven.
Click to expand...

Don’t see Faheem as a fourth pacer when Yasir will also play. This means that with Faheem at 7, Pak tail will start at 8. Faheem only plays when Shadab comes in at 8, similar to England. But difficult to see two spinners in the playing 11 against SA.

But my original question remains, who are the 2 pacers to partner Abbas in the team and who will be the backup pacer on bench?
 
AliMurtaza said:
Don’t see Faheem as a fourth pacer when Yasir will also play. This means that with Faheem at 7, Pak tail will start at 8. Faheem only plays when Shadab comes in at 8, similar to England. But difficult to see two spinners in the playing 11 against SA.

But my original question remains, who are the 2 pacers to partner Abbas in the team and who will be the backup pacer on bench?
Click to expand...


Mickey will draft his boys Amir and Hasan in. They are supposed to do wonders on responsive wickets. Same tactics as the UK tour.

Junaid/Mir Hamza probably on the bench. Inzi doesn't like chopping and changing a lot.
 
The three pacers will be Abbas, Shaheen, Fahim along with shadab and
Batting Will be, Azhar , Imam, Harris, Babar, Asad, Fakhar, Sarfraz, Sahdab, Fahim, Abbas and Shaheen, Harris said Azhar are good enough part timers and can bowl around 10 overs between them to make up for 5th bowler to give main bowlers a breather, and in SAF we need to beef up batting, these 4 bowlers are good enough to take 20 SA wickets specifically without AB and declining Alma there batting isn't very strong, This time we have better players of pace bowling and better depth in batting, This team can score 300 on average in SAF and can bundle them for 250 max on average provided we don't drop more than 2 catches per inning. Pak will start 60-40 favorite even in SAF on paper, whether they deliver on ground is another thing. [MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION] do you agree?
 
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AliMurtaza said:
We still have the same question marks on our test bowling attack that we had before the Aus test series. It seems only Abbas is the test quality bowler we are left with. Yasir is struggling, Bilal is yet to fully convince and Mir Hamza had a meh sort of debut.

Unlike limited overs where we have likes of Hassan, Shaheen, Junaid, Shinwari, Amir and Rauman to work with, our test fast bowling cupboard seems empty. Hassan is still not test ready, Amir is yet to rediscover his pre-ban test form and no quality young pacers coming from domestic either. If I look at the Quaid-e-Azam trohpy stats for last 2 years, no young fast bowler stands out. We have the usual suspects like Tabish and Aizaz Cheema dominating the tables. Yes, perhaps you can make a case for Sadaf Hussain but his form has dipped in the last 3 years. I don't feel likes of Shaheen are ready for tests yet.

So, in a nut shell, I am worried about our fast bowling strength in tests. If you were to put a gun to my head, I would pick Abbas, Mir Hamza (not fully convinced) and Junaid Khan as 3 pacers for tests on the SA tour. But who else?

Worrying times ahead
Click to expand...

I'm optimistic. I don' know why people are fretting about Hamza; it means nothing that he didnt take a bunch of wickets in the UAE. He has an extraordinary FC record and deserves a proper run. SA wickets will suit him very much. Amir could come back, he's been decent in Tests recently, but so has Hasan Ali who people dismiss too quickly. Of course, if there is courage at the PCB one would like to see Sadaf be given a run. He's 6 5" almost as tall as Shaheen but has an excellent track record. My concern is more about the spin department actually. I feel Yasir may not be up to scratch anymore, and would like to see someone like Bhatti being tried instead. Pity that Bilal is now parked in the incumbent's spot.
 
This nonsense of playing Fahim and Shadab together has to come to an end. Bits and pieces players who are glorified tailenders with the bat and mediocre with the ball.
 
Mamoon said:
This nonsense of playing Fahim and Shadab together has to come to an end. Bits and pieces players who are glorified tailenders with the bat and mediocre with the ball.
Click to expand...

Team mein acha kon hai bhai?

What would your XI be?
 
Zeshan547 said:
The three pacers will be Abbas, Shaheen, Fahim along with shadab and
Batting Will be, Azhar , Imam, Harris, Babar, Asad, Fakhar, Sarfraz, Sahdab, Fahim, Abbas and Shaheen, Harris said Azhar are good enough part timers and can bowl around 10 overs between them to make up for 5th bowler to give main bowlers a breather, and in SAF we need to beef up batting, these 4 bowlers are good enough to take 20 SA wickets specifically without AB and declining Alma there batting isn't very strong, This time we have better players of pace bowling and better depth in batting, This team can score 300 on average in SAF and can bundle them for 250 max on average provided we don't drop more than 2 catches per inning. Pak will start 60-40 favorite even in SAF on paper, whether they deliver on ground is another thing. [MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION] do you agree?
Click to expand...

I am not sure about the batting to be honest. PAK'll need minimum 450 in combined innings to make a match with whatever XI SAF puts. Sarfraz has sealed his spot at least till end of SAF, not sure if it's good or bad, but MoHa has complicated situation with his one innings; I think he might still make the XI, which isn't a confidence boasting situation to be honest. Catching is definitely better than what I have seen in past.

Regarding bowling, I think for 3 venues, PAK should use 3 different combination. Spinners hardly earn anything at Centurion, and PAK doesn't have a big turner, therefore in 1st Test, I won't play any spinner - Haris & Azhar can share 25 overs. Don't think, in any of the Tests, PAK will bowl 200+ overs, at Centurion even less. Amir, Abbas, Afridi & Hasan bowling 150 overs between them, Haris & Azhar 20 - that's 170 overs. Considering wicket will be similar like IND Series, if PAK is to win, has to get 20 wickets in 170 overs, that's like 500 runs @ 3/over - that's PAK's max limit with bat).

2nd Test at Newlands, which provides spin - I'll drop one of the pacers (probably Hasan) and play Yasir. Still Yasir is the best spinner among usual picks and he can trouble SAF batting. 3rd Test is J'burg which is often a fast bowler's dream wicket - may be I'll go back to 1st Test's combination or play Shadab & Fahim, dropping one batsmen & one pacer; but not sure.

That series will be decided at what cost both teams take 20 wickets & I am not sure how many Day 5 we'll see in 3 Tests.
 
MMHS said:
I am not sure about the batting to be honest. PAK'll need minimum 450 in combined innings to make a match with whatever XI SAF puts. Sarfraz has sealed his spot at least till end of SAF, not sure if it's good or bad, but MoHa has complicated situation with his one innings; I think he might still make the XI, which isn't a confidence boasting situation to be honest. Catching is definitely better than what I have seen in past.

Regarding bowling, I think for 3 venues, PAK should use 3 different combination. Spinners hardly earn anything at Centurion, and PAK doesn't have a big turner, therefore in 1st Test, I won't play any spinner - Haris & Azhar can share 25 overs. Don't think, in any of the Tests, PAK will bowl 200+ overs, at Centurion even less. Amir, Abbas, Afridi & Hasan bowling 150 overs between them, Haris & Azhar 20 - that's 170 overs. Considering wicket will be similar like IND Series, if PAK is to win, has to get 20 wickets in 170 overs, that's like 500 runs @ 3/over - that's PAK's max limit with bat).

2nd Test at Newlands, which provides spin - I'll drop one of the pacers (probably Hasan) and play Yasir. Still Yasir is the best spinner among usual picks and he can trouble SAF batting. 3rd Test is J'burg which is often a fast bowler's dream wicket - may be I'll go back to 1st Test's combination or play Shadab & Fahim, dropping one batsmen & one pacer; but not sure.

That series will be decided at what cost both teams take 20 wickets & I am not sure how many Day 5 we'll see in 3 Tests.
Click to expand...

Surprised you did not include Junaid Khan. He was good the last time he played ODI's there + in phenomenal form in FC cricket. Also probably the only bowler after Abbas who uses the seam well instead of just banging it ala Amir, Hasan.

I think Pak has a great chance to disturb SA with a bowling line up Abbas, Junaid and Amir. A lot seam and swing there. Even a Shinwari could prove lethal there but not sure about his 4 day fitness.
 
Prince of Pakistan said:
Surprised you did not include Junaid Khan. He was good the last time he played ODI's there + in phenomenal form in FC cricket. Also probably the only bowler after Abbas who uses the seam well instead of just banging it ala Amir, Hasan.

I think Pak has a great chance to disturb SA with a bowling line up Abbas, Junaid and Amir. A lot seam and swing there. Even a Shinwari could prove lethal there but not sure about his 4 day fitness.
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Can be an option indeed, but I'll keep Afridi in, that means 3 left-armer with Abbas. His only Test wasn't that great in SAF and I am not sure if he'll survive full Test; doesn't look that strong for 40-45 overs. If he makes it to XI, it has to be over Hasan (which I don't like). UKS might struggle in SAF, bowling against their batsmen on green tops.
 
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Abbas will be picking up loads of wickets in SA. If the others can just support him, Pakistan bowling will do well. The issue only happens if Abbas cannot pick wickets or does not make that tour due to some reason.
 
Saffer batting isn't what it used to be, and now ABDV is gone too. Remember, ABDV was singularly responsible for Saffers winning both the series against India and Aus.

Their bowling on the other hand is the most lethal in fast, bouncy and seaming conditions. Better than Eng and Aus. The whole discussion over Pak bowling would be rendered moot if the batsmen struggle to cross 100.
 
Abbas and Yasir are two locks for sure. After that, who knows... if Amir makes a comeback, he would in the attack and most likely Hasan Ali would be as well. Faheem is likely the 5th bowling option though I'd argue Pakistan is better of playing 7 specialist batsmen and 4 specialist bowlers.

They will need all the batting they can get in South Africa since there's a good chance Philander will absolutely steamroll this batting lineup.
 
Nasty Naz said:
Abbas and Yasir are two locks for sure. After that, who knows... if Amir makes a comeback, he would in the attack and most likely Hasan Ali would be as well. Faheem is likely the 5th bowling option though I'd argue Pakistan is better of playing 7 specialist batsmen and 4 specialist bowlers.

They will need all the batting they can get in South Africa since there's a good chance Philander will absolutely steamroll this batting lineup.
Click to expand...

We've seen this before in England and Australia in 2016, not having a 5th bowler takes too much out of our regular bowlers, and they're not able to bowl effectively. Can't repeat the same mistake.
 
aloo paratha said:
We've seen this before in England and Australia in 2016, not having a 5th bowler takes too much out of our regular bowlers, and they're not able to bowl effectively. Can't repeat the same mistake.
Click to expand...

Faheem didn't bowl a whole lot in that 1st Test vs England and that was despite having Shadab there who didn't bowl much either or not anywhere near what Yasir usually bowls. If Yasir is healthy, I think you can go with 4 bowlers considering Yasir bowls 30 overs a day. Assuming the bowlers bowl a full day, I think you can go with 18 overs each pacer (54) and Yasir at 30 and the remaining few overs could go to Azhar/Haris.

I'm not completely opposed to playing Ashraf since I think he could bowl well in SA but it leaves a pretty thin batting order with the openers being a question mark, Sarfraz being extremely poor overall over the past year or two and Babar still being pretty bad in Tests so far. But who knows, maybe if the batting does really well in the upcoming Tests vs NZ, maybe you could have a little bit more faith in going with 6 specialist batsmen.
 
Two most equipped bowlers to use seaming conditions in SA are Junaid and Abbas.

Then Shaheen with his height can be a handful

Shadab should play ahead of Yasir because lower order batting strength will also be critical to their chances
 
Abbas, Shaheen, Hasan. Fahim as allrounder / 4th pacer

Mir Hamza as reserve
 
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