Are Imran Khan's days numbered as PM of Pakistan?

[MenInG]

The vote of no confidence seems to be bringing out an all out revolt for IK - can he weather the storm?

==


The ongoing power game turned ugly for Prime Minister Imran Khan even before the voting on the no-confidence motion as around two dozen disgruntled MNAs of the ruling PTI came out in the open on Thursday.

Taking refuge at the Sindh House in the federal capital, several of them gave interviews to different anchorpersons, saying they had parted ways with the ruling party and would not contest the next elections on a PTI ticket.

One of them rubbed even more salt on the wounds when he claimed that three federal ministers had already quit the PTI.

In an interview to anchorperson to a private TV channel, PTI’s estranged member Raja Riaz disclosed that around 24 disgruntled MNAs of the ruling party were staying at the Sindh House, fearing government action against them like the one they witnessed when the Islamabad police had raided the Parliament Lodges a week ago.

However, Riaz, who had joined the group of estranged PTI leader Jahangir Khan Tareen, maintained that he was ready to move back to the Parliament Lodges if the premier assured him that the police would not swing into action against him.

Riaz further said the lawmakers were not missing as they were in Islamabad, saying they had differences with PM Imran and his government’s policies. “The PTI’s troubles stem from its incompetent advisers and assistants,” he added.

He challenged that if anyone had any doubt about the 24 MNAs, then they were “more than welcome” to call a meeting of the parliamentary committee and see the results themselves.

Riaz, along with Noor Alam Khan, Malik Nawab Sher Waseer, Ramesh Kumar and others, rejected allegations of taking money from the opposition for switching sides.

They regretted that they were the ones raising their voice against corruption for the last three-and-a-half years but no one paid heed to it.

Noticeably, MNA Noor Alam Khan had long been expressing his dissent and even asked to place the names of the lawmakers sitting in the first three rows of the treasury benches, including PM Imran, on the Exit Control List.

Sources said other PTI members currently at Sindh House include Rana Qasim Noon, Ghaffar Wattoo, Riaz Mazari, Basit Bukhari, Khawaja Sheraz, Ahmad Hasan Dehar, Nuzhat Pathan and Wajeeha Qamar.

In a startling revelation, PTI’s Ramesh Kumar claimed that 33 members of the assembly, including three federal ministers, had left the ruling party and the prime minister should immediately resign now.

Sharing his reason of taking refuge at Sindh House, Kumar said he had sought protection from Sindh Chief Minister Murad Ali Shah after his wife was threatened at Parliament Lodges.

Another PTI MNA Rana Muhammad Qasim Noon said the “government has lost its opportunity” to restore normalcy to the political situation. “Governments do not stage rallies… they hold negotiations. They [government] should have resolved the matter through political talks... this is not a Hitler regime,” he added while speaking to a local broadcaster.

The allegations about coercion and bribery surfaced after PM Imran had claimed during a public address that opposition leaders were sitting in the Sindh House with “heaps of money” to purchase loyalties of treasury lawmakers.

The premier had asked the election commission to take action against this “horse-trading”.
The country plunged into political crisis just a day after PM’s statement when the disgruntled members came out in the open and denied the allegations, saying they were staying at Sindh House over safety concerns and had not received a single penny.

They added that they would vote on the no-confidence motion against PM Imran in “accordance with their conscience”.

The interviews of the dissenting members and footage running on TV channels showing them present at Sindh House came at a time when the opposition parties, including the ruling party in Sindh, have been attempting to oust the PTI government through a no-trust motion.

Before the situation unfolded, PPP leaders said the government was planning to attack Sindh House on the grounds that the opposition had detained some ruling party lawmakers there ahead of the vote on the no-confidence motion against the prime minister.

Prior to that, PML-Q leader, Speaker Punjab Assembly Parvez Elahi, said in an interview that around 10 to 12 government lawmakers were in “safe custody” of the opposition.

The PML-Q leader said these lawmakers had approached him but were now nowhere to be seen now.

“We have tracked them down. They are in the opposition’s safe custody. The government is actually more concerned about them. The ones who they looked forward to [for support] have stated they are now neutral. No friendly country or institution will come near this matter,” the PML-Q leader said.
https://tribune.com.pk/story/2348541/imran-faces-revolt

 

[gani999]

Hard to tell, but IK seems to be in a spot of bother with his own people deserting him.

https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-...ns-party-ahead-no-confidence-vote-2022-03-17/

But whatever one says, the man is a fighter. He won't give up easily and will ensure that the blood of at least some of his opponents is seen on the floor (figuratively).

 

[DRsohail]

Hard to tell, but IK seems to be in a spot of bother with his own people deserting him.

https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-...ns-party-ahead-no-confidence-vote-2022-03-17/

But whatever one says, the man is a fighter. He won't give up easily and will ensure that the blood of at least some of his opponents is seen on the floor (figuratively).

He is surely in trouble and so the future of the whole country, but he is a fighter and he will not leave them to live easily.lets see .

 

[Bewal Express]

Yes, is the simple answer. The mafia have bribed their way to power but apparently its all halal. They will have unfettered power- they will have pliant Judiciary, an establishment that stayed neutral and media that they have paid for. Lets see the mafia do what they promised- cut petrol further than he has, cut electricity prices, reform the Judiciary, etc . I hope they dont just look at getting their cases binned and giving NROs to each other

 

[LaLoco]

What is the asking rate?

I thought due to inflation everything had become expensive, is the price to buy politician factoring in the inflation?

It is a win win situation for PTI and Pakistan, and only those who wants Pakistan to get rid such politician will only understand this point.

 

[LaLoco]

Yes, is the simple answer. The mafia have bribed their way to power but apparently its all halal. They will have unfettered power- they will have pliant Judiciary, an establishment that stayed neutral and media that they have paid for. Lets see the mafia do what they promised- cut petrol further than he has, cut electricity prices, reform the Judiciary, etc . I hope they dont just look at getting their cases binned and giving NROs to each other

Cut prices they will and leave the next government to pay for it and rest of Pakistani to pay for it.

Every law will be changed to bring back NS.

 

[Varun]

Who will become Prime Minister of Pakistan if Imran Khan loses?

Or will there be a military coup?

 

[gani999]

Who will become Prime Minister of Pakistan if Imran Khan loses?

Or will there be a military coup?

I really doubt the military will step in, at least openly.

If Imran loses, there will probably be elections again.

It will be interesting if Imran Khan is voted back to power with an even bigger majority.

 

[LaLoco]

I really doubt the military will step in, at least openly.

If Imran loses, there will probably be elections again.

It will be interesting if Imran Khan is voted back to power with an even bigger majority.

One thing is for sure, the popularity will rise.

But you are correct, PTI gain no advantage of having military coup.

If someone is suggesting it on this forum then kindly ignore it, they are speaking out of their rear end.

 

[JaDed]

Imran will be much more famous now than ever, all the news appears to make it seem he is fighting alone, elections will probably give him a better majority.

 

[Major]

offcourse, the way he handed the economy to the millitary and than did not involve parliament in discussion. Every bill they knew they couldnt pass, they got presidential ordinances on them, when infact it can only be done during emergency.

The PM has lost the confidence of the public due to the inflation and economic crises he has caused. He has also lost the confidence of his own mnas and even the millitary

His days are numbered, will become the first pm ever of Pakistan where people lost confidence with. What a record

 

[pakistanisgreat]

Imran will be much more famous now than ever, all the news appears to make it seem he is fighting alone, elections will probably give him a better majority.

I doubt that. Unless he makes fresh new deal with army and establishment. More than half of nation not happy with the economy situation.

 

[Major]

Imran will be much more famous now than ever, all the news appears to make it seem he is fighting alone, elections will probably give him a better majority.

nope. The popularity doesnt matter. The 1.5 year timing is going to be very crucial.

Basically in the Pakistani political scenes, every party be it PPP, PMLN and even PTI were trying to this, the funds for development are never used during the first 3-4 years. Funds are released in the last year or 1.5, so that development could be done and people will remember it.

It is never done during the first 3-4 years.

PTI did this, and with PMLN and PPP looking to get ministries, the work they will do in this 1.5 years time will be crucial. They could even come out as the economic savior.

if PPP proves itself capable, they will steal the next election, and Imrans political career will be over as he is quite old and wont be coming back for the 2028 election.

Funny thing is, there is nothing for PMLN here. Its PPP and PTI that could benefit. PMLN will try to make relations with Baluchistan parties

 

[Major]

I doubt that. Unless he makes fresh new deal with army and establishment. More than half of nation not happy with the economy situation.

Everyone is angry with the economical mess that Imran has created.

People are jumping up and down on the popularity factor, popularity doesnt feed a poor person. Inflation has gone crazy... Even the establishment wants the PPP to take over for the time being atleast so that economical reforms and policies could be made and the country be saved from the mess that has been created

 

[JaDed]

I don’t know Pakistan’s internal situation but inflation has been an issue across the world, he alone can’t be blamed for it.

Maybe it’s just me but except for his constant Indian rant i thought he was a better Pakistani PM.

 

[pakistanisgreat]

Everyone is angry with the economical mess that Imran has created.

People are jumping up and down on the popularity factor, popularity doesnt feed a poor person. Inflation has gone crazy... Even the establishment wants the PPP to take over for the time being atleast so that economical reforms and policies could be made and the country be saved from the mess that has been created

yes agree with that. Popularity does not do any good in Pakistan. It does not matter how popular you are. As long you have a deal and good relation with establishment then you are fine.

 

[Major]

Who will become Prime Minister of Pakistan if Imran Khan loses?

Or will there be a military coup?

It is possible as PTI is looking to start a war with other parties on 27th. Law and order can become a mess, infact Imran made sure the Pak vs Australia series is shifted from Rawal pindi to Lahore.

Its funny that the govt is trying to start a war here.

If things get messy, the millitary can take over, and the fact that they are neutral this time around could indicate to anything.

Imran doesnt want to lose his power and he wouldn't mind having the millitary take over and he become a powerless PM under them.

Nothing can be ruled out in Pakistani politics.

 

[pakistanisgreat]

I don’t know Pakistan’s internal situation but inflation has been an issue across the world, he alone can’t be blamed for it.

Maybe it’s just me but except for his constant Indian rant i thought he was a better Pakistani PM.

Bro agree with that. but a poor pakistani living in village, does not have education does not care about inflation world wide. He/She wants cheap prices for all the goods he/she purchased. They do not care what's going on in India, They do not care what is the price of Oil/gas in India.

 

[Major]

I don’t know Pakistan’s internal situation but inflation has been an issue across the world, he alone can’t be blamed for it.

Maybe it’s just me but except for his constant Indian rant i thought he was a better Pakistani PM.

he has imposed taxes on everything and that too at 17%.

Problem is, the campaign he did. He bashed ppp and PMLN for taking money and taking a begging bowl to the foreign countries and IMF.
Guess what?

He himself went to the IMF with a begging bowl and they than gave him the conditions to follow if he wanted money. Sales tax has been imposed on everything.

 

[Major]

Bro agree with that. but a poor pakistani living in village, does not have education does not care about inflation world wide. He/She wants cheap prices for all the goods he/she purchased. They do not care what's going on in India, They do not care what is the price of Oil/gas in India.

another problem is that people like to use the lame excuse of worldwide inflation, what they dont know is that the minimum wage here is about rs 17,000 per month.

No household can survive on that.

Plus the govt cant even force pvt companies to follow this minimum salary, thus the salary companies end up paying is Rs.10 000.

Instead Imran made an appeal to companies to plz pay people more . When you see a PRIME MINISTER appealing to companies instead of establishing rule of law that shows how bad things are

 

[moghul]

For being the PM of a poor country , he did a great job during the pandemic . Inflation is a world wide problem and even rich countries are having difficult time to manage that. Inflation is so bad , MNA's price used to be 400 millions Rs, and now its around 1800 million Rs, as per Maryam Nawaz .

Imran Khan can't fix all the issues in 3 years , he needs 2 terms back to back to change the culture of corruption in the country . Corrupt mafia is still very strong and they have too much looted money to buy any professional politician ( they are prostitutes , practically ).

I will not be upset if he loses the power, knowing him , he will come back even stronger . He has never been afraid of losing , but would never give up , not to these corrupt thugs and looters.

 

[IMMY69]

Two scenarios and in each one IK will come out the winner.

He wins the vote and they move on

He loses the vote and calls an election which he will win with a bigger majority.

Opposition mafia is banking on an election now before the lectronic voting system comes in snd their rigging can continue with aplomb. However eith or without rigging I expect IK to win.

 

[LaLoco]

For being the PM of a poor country , he did a great job during the pandemic . Inflation is a world wide problem and even rich countries are having difficult time to manage that. Inflation is so bad , MNA's price used to be 400 millions Rs, and now its around 1800 million Rs, as per Maryam Nawaz .

Imran Khan can't fix all the issues in 3 years , he needs 2 terms back to back to change the culture of corruption in the country . Corrupt mafia is still very strong and they have too much looted money to buy any professional politician ( they are prostitutes , practically ).

I will not be upset if he loses the power, knowing him , he will come back even stronger . He has never been afraid of losing , but would never give up , not to these corrupt thugs and looters.

Some have no shame.

Cursing them publicly is probably the minimum anyone could do.

 

[Major]

The govt is now sending threatening msgs to noor aleem khan

The desperation of this govt is hilarious.

 

[IMMY69]

The govt is now sending threatening msgs to noor aleem khan

The desperation of this govt is hilarious.

Anyone who is a minister on the PTI ticket that revolts should have to resign first.

 

[Stewie]

Lack of education has always been the problem for majority of the Pakistanis. If IK is being shown the door due to inflation and other economic problems, well there you have it! They deserve all the hurt they get because they deserve it for blaming IK for these problems and falling back on the mafia who will run us further into the ground.

I dont think our nation even truly understands how the world works and they feel every government can simply print more money and the economic woes will be done or hand out ridiculous subsidies so "poor" people can survive by taking debts we cannot repay... err... let me rephrase that part.. debts we could have easily repaid or never needed in the first place had we not put the mafia of Sharifs/Zerdari-Bhuttos in charge.

 

[Major]

Lack of education has always been the problem for majority of the Pakistanis. If IK is being shown the door due to inflation and other economic problems, well there you have it! They deserve all the hurt they get because they deserve it for blaming IK for these problems and falling back on the mafia who will run us further into the ground.

I dont think our nation even truly understands how the world works and they feel every government can simply print more money and the economic woes will be done or hand out ridiculous subsidies so "poor" people can survive by taking debts we cannot repay... err... let me rephrase that part.. debts we could have easily repaid or never needed in the first place had we not put the mafia of Sharifs/Zerdari-Bhuttos in charge.

as always foreigners calling the locals jahil.....

World wide inflation means nothing when the minimum salary on paper is Rs.17000 and what companies actually pay is Rs.10,000

Plz live in Pakistan on an income of Rs.17, 000 per month and i will happily shut my mouth.

As usual, the foreign nationals not understanding the economic issue on hand and calling the locals jahil.

A poor man who earns 10-14k, if you want global economics to concern him that plz do bother to pay a wage that is acceptable at a global level.

 

[Azzurri]

as always foreigners calling the locals jahil.....

World wide inflation means nothing when the minimum salary on paper is Rs.17000 and what companies actually pay is Rs.10,000

Plz live in Pakistan on an income of Rs.17, 000 per month and i will happily shut my mouth.

As usual, the foreign nationals not understanding the economic issue on hand and calling the locals jahil.

A poor man who earns 10-14k, if you want global economics to concern him that plz do bother to pay a wage that is acceptable at a global level.

As per your usual nonsense IK apparently reduced the salaries from 50000 during Noora era to 10000, right? IK didn’t start an economic downfall of Pakistan, instead he inherited an upside down economy from the same lulus which will probably take over if he loses

 

[Stewie]

as always foreigners calling the locals jahil.....

World wide inflation means nothing when the minimum salary on paper is Rs.17000 and what companies actually pay is Rs.10,000

Plz live in Pakistan on an income of Rs.17, 000 per month and i will happily shut my mouth.

As usual, the foreign nationals not understanding the economic issue on hand and calling the locals jahil.

A poor man who earns 10-14k, if you want global economics to concern him that plz do bother to pay a wage that is acceptable at a global level.

There seem to be a lot of "foreign" nationals who support IK besides my vote matters too even if I live outside.

I would like to know what exactly do you think your chacha Billu can do in the current economic status? The only practical thing he can do is return all the money he, his father and mother stole from the nation and maybe that will help the poor man stand back up on his feet. Do you think he will do that if he comes into power? Or do you think the local living Pakistanis are the only smart ones to think thats not a good idea?

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I don’t know Pakistan’s internal situation but inflation has been an issue across the world, he alone can’t be blamed for it.

Maybe it’s just me but except for his constant Indian rant i thought he was a better Pakistani PM.

Most Pakistanis are ignorant, they won't know what is going on outside of Pakistan. That's why bribery and cheating are so rife in places like this. They are used to voting for natural born liars.

 

[Major]

There seem to be a lot of "foreign" nationals who support IK besides my vote matters too even if I live outside.

I would like to know what exactly do you think your chacha Billu can do in the current economic status? The only practical thing he can do is return all the money he, his father and mother stole from the nation and maybe that will help the poor man stand back up on his feet. Do you think he will do that if he comes into power? Or do you think the local living Pakistanis are the only smart ones to think thats not a good idea?

and you ignored what a i discussed.

You insulted local pakistanis for not knowing economics and claiming them to be jahills because they think just print more money

When infact it is you who doesnt even know an ounce of the problems faced. People getting paid 10-15k in salaray (Rs.17000 being minimum salary set by govt) and think that anyone talking about the economic issues is a jahil person.

You are priviledged enough to be safe from such problems and be able to call the locals living in the country as jahils.

As usual, instead of admitting you lot will go on saying billu and flana and what will others do....

Atleast dont call the locals jahil just because you are not aware of ground realities.

Living on a salary of Rs.15k and than be insulted by foreigners for not knowing economics.

 

[Major]

Most Pakistanis are ignorant, they won't know what is going on outside of Pakistan. That's why bribery and cheating are so rife in places like this. They are used to voting for natural born liars.

hmm, I thought ptis only achievement was eliminating corruption...

So now PTI is in govt and we all Pakistanis are paying bribes... Hence govt failed at that front too.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

hmm, I thought ptis only achievement was eliminating corruption...

So now PTI is in govt and we all Pakistanis are paying bribes... Hence govt failed at that front too.

You mean he hasn't fixed it overnight? Let's bring back Mr 10% and see if he can show how it's done.

 

[LaLoco]

as always foreigners calling the locals jahil.....

World wide inflation means nothing when the minimum salary on paper is Rs.17000 and what companies actually pay is Rs.10,000

Plz live in Pakistan on an income of Rs.17, 000 per month and i will happily shut my mouth.

As usual, the foreign nationals not understanding the economic issue on hand and calling the locals jahil.

A poor man who earns 10-14k, if you want global economics to concern him that plz do bother to pay a wage that is acceptable at a global level.

Again, generalized comment devoid of reality while using the same usual immature support of repeating, ' you all live outside of Pakistan"

The poster will not be able to name one or present one article from PPP that had improved the life of people of Sindh.

Poster had also ignored the impact artificially keeping the dollar devalued under PML-N.

The poster is fully aware that neither PPP government nor PML-N government will be able improve the wages as per inflation of common man nor be able to improve the life of a common Pakistani in a long term because neither government is incapable of running the economy of Pakistan on merit.

Short term, maybe, but in a long term nothing will be improved.

Almost every comment is nefarious in nature to hinder the corruption of two dynastic political parties, PML-N and PPP.

 

[Major]

As per your usual nonsense IK apparently reduced the salaries from 50000 during Noora era to 10000, right? IK didn’t start an economic downfall of Pakistan, instead he inherited an upside down economy from the same lulus which will probably take over if he loses

inherited?

Even in PMLN's time the salaries were not bearable, but atleast inflation wasnt high enough. After Imran came inflation rose.

You are telling me that the govt inherited the minimum salary set and shouldn't had increased it?

In Pakistan, each year, the budget is approved by the govt in june-july. The minimum salary has never been adjusted with the inflation.

IK IK IK, wasnt IK suppose to be the savior? WHy didnt he increase the minimum salary and forced companies to follow the laws instead of doing a media appeal.

Living in Pakistan on a salary of Rs.15K and than talk.

 

[LaLoco]

inherited?

Even in PMLN's time the salaries were not bearable, but atleast inflation wasnt high enough. After Imran came inflation rose.

You are telling me that the govt inherited the minimum salary set and shouldn't had increased it?

In Pakistan, each year, the budget is approved by the govt in june-july. The minimum salary has never been adjusted with the inflation.

IK IK IK, wasnt IK suppose to be the savior? WHy didnt he increase the minimum salary and forced companies to follow the laws instead of doing a media appeal.

Living in Pakistan on a salary of Rs.15K and than talk.

Again, devoid of the current world economy situation, it is made to seem as if it inflation rose solely in Pakistan and the rest of the world was immune to it - an immature comments without the understanding of the world economy, or perhaps understood but intentionally ignored due to perverted agenda.

 

[Major]

You mean he hasn't fixed it overnight? Let's bring back Mr 10% and see if he can show how it's done.

no i mean he couldn't fix it in 3.5 years time.

That isnt overnight, especially when the FBR chief was his own.

Bills were being bulldozed day in and out. Was it that hard to bulldoze a bill on corruption?

What about the police reforms..


The only good thing that the guy did was and deserve credit is making laws as such that forced the people to file taxes. To do this, they used negative reinforcement.

This could had been done on alot of other things aswell

 

[Bewal Express]

no i mean he couldn't fix it in 3.5 years time.

That isnt overnight, especially when the FBR chief was his own.

Bills were being bulldozed day in and out. Was it that hard to bulldoze a bill on corruption?

What about the police reforms..


The only good thing that the guy did was and deserve credit is making laws as such that forced the people to file taxes. To do this, they used negative reinforcement.

This could had been done on alot of other things aswell

The law is there, NAB arent enforcing it. I have said on many occasions that NAB chairman was appointed by the crooks for a reason. Do you think that in a million years they would appoint a guy that would prosecute these thugs.

 

[tired1]

During my last trip to Pakistan a couple of months ago, I met our neighbor who was angry at the government, as his business is suffering and his profits are down. He was constantly blaming IK that his life wasn't that difficult before his government. Then I met my university mate who told me similar concerns that he is being now harassed by FBR under PTI gov now. Then I went to offer my condolences to a cousin (because of the death of an uncle), and he was also calling the government foul names.

The thing is that, I was not shocked at all. I 100% expected this from them. My neighbor's business is water tanker operation or simply what most people call the Water-mafia. He is being asked to pay dues for collecting water now instead of just bribing some employees there to fill his takers. My university mate has been an employee at a multinational firm for some years as administrator, and is responsible for procurement of Office computers and stationary. He buys all the stuff from a dealer, who doesn't exist, because he created the dealer on paper. He buys stuff cheaply from local wholesalers and produces fake receipts and submits them to the company. Of course, his bank account is filling up, so when FBR notices and asks how he gets the money, he cannot reveal how. My Uncle has a successful business and he never revealed his profits nor registered his income. However, he has multiple houses in Clifton and Defense, so it was indeed profitable. Suddenly on his death, the issue of inheritance comes up, and to divide the assets among his children. Now my eldest cousin realizes, that since pretty much all the money is undeclared, they are owed back taxes on it and can't pay his other siblings without losing a hefty chunk of it.

Thing is, I cannot blame them, not all of them are particularly evil people or always rich. They grew up in a corrupt system and to succeed they have to become corrupt as well. That is all they know, how to game the system. So when someone comes up to fix the system, these people can no longer stay successful because their core living is associated with the old system. Hence they want things to go back to normal, because they consider an honest system injustice.

Unfortunately, a lot of people in all classes from lower to middle to upper, have been suffering, and not all of them are corrupt, but they are a product of a corrupt system, and fixing a broken system is very hard. A guy I met at Dubai airport, explained to be the golden times of when he was working as a security guard for a PMLN politician under the last government. He said that he and other guards were given extra money like every other week, when some guests visit. He said, he was able to use that money to build an extra room in his house and take his wife and son to see Murree. But since the last election, the Politician lost his seat, and the extra money that he was getting dried up. He was only paid the salary, because his boss isn't MPA anymore. Now with low salary and with expenses rising, he had to leave Pakistan and come to Dubai, so he could make more money. I wish I could explain to him that his boss was making bank as a member of government and of Punjab assembly before, and the extra money he was getting were pennies that were trickled down on him, but what would have that achieved. He only knows what he experienced.

He and the common man aren't educated enough to realize how corruption was rampant, and certain changes are necessary to fix this, which will result in their temporary hardship. All they know is that their life is more difficult now. So of course they look after those corrupt leaders. The real disappointment is that there are educated people who use this excuse to support corruption and corrupt leaders. They are willfully blind even after knowing, and unfortunately I know several of them as well. It's our countrymen who deserve these people as leaders, because our nation demands them.

 

[pakistanisgreat]

The law is there, NAB arent enforcing it. I have said on many occasions that NAB chairman was appointed by the crooks for a reason. Do you think that in a million years they would appoint a guy that would prosecute these thugs.

Why did IK gave him extension? and If he is not there anymore Ik wanted him badly in his position.

 

[pakistanisgreat]

During my last trip to Pakistan a couple of months ago, I met our neighbor who was angry at the government, as his business is suffering and his profits are down. He was constantly blaming IK that his life wasn't that difficult before his government. Then I met my university mate who told me similar concerns that he is being now harassed by FBR under PTI gov now. Then I went to offer my condolences to a cousin (because of the death of an uncle), and he was also calling the government foul names.

The thing is that, I was not shocked at all. I 100% expected this from them. My neighbor's business is water tanker operation or simply what most people call the Water-mafia. He is being asked to pay dues for collecting water now instead of just bribing some employees there to fill his takers. My university mate has been an employee at a multinational firm for some years as administrator, and is responsible for procurement of Office computers and stationary. He buys all the stuff from a dealer, who doesn't exist, because he created the dealer on paper. He buys stuff cheaply from local wholesalers and produces fake receipts and submits them to the company. Of course, his bank account is filling up, so when FBR notices and asks how he gets the money, he cannot reveal how. My Uncle has a successful business and he never revealed his profits nor registered his income. However, he has multiple houses in Clifton and Defense, so it was indeed profitable. Suddenly on his death, the issue of inheritance comes up, and to divide the assets among his children. Now my eldest cousin realizes, that since pretty much all the money is undeclared, they are owed back taxes on it and can't pay his other siblings without losing a hefty chunk of it.

Thing is, I cannot blame them, not all of them are particularly evil people or always rich. They grew up in a corrupt system and to succeed they have to become corrupt as well. That is all they know, how to game the system. So when someone comes up to fix the system, these people can no longer stay successful because their core living is associated with the old system. Hence they want things to go back to normal, because they consider an honest system injustice.

Unfortunately, a lot of people in all classes from lower to middle to upper, have been suffering, and not all of them are corrupt, but they are a product of a corrupt system, and fixing a broken system is very hard. A guy I met at Dubai airport, explained to be the golden times of when he was working as a security guard for a PMLN politician under the last government. He said that he and other guards were given extra money like every other week, when some guests visit. He said, he was able to use that money to build an extra room in his house and take his wife and son to see Murree. But since the last election, the Politician lost his seat, and the extra money that he was getting dried up. He was only paid the salary, because his boss isn't MPA anymore. Now with low salary and with expenses rising, he had to leave Pakistan and come to Dubai, so he could make more money. I wish I could explain to him that his boss was making bank as a member of government and of Punjab assembly before, and the extra money he was getting were pennies that were trickled down on him, but what would have that achieved. He only knows what he experienced.

He and the common man aren't educated enough to realize how corruption was rampant, and certain changes are necessary to fix this, which will result in their temporary hardship. All they know is that their life is more difficult now. So of course they look after those corrupt leaders. The real disappointment is that there are educated people who use this excuse to support corruption and corrupt leaders. They are willfully blind even after knowing, and unfortunately I know several of them as well. It's our countrymen who deserve these people as leaders, because our nation demands them.

Agree with it. But nothing is being done to stop this corruption, corruption has gone up. 6 months ago i wen to Pakistan and i was forced to give bribe to army guy in the CMH (hospital).

 

[Stewie]

and you ignored what a i discussed.

You insulted local pakistanis for not knowing economics and claiming them to be jahills because they think just print more money

When infact it is you who doesnt even know an ounce of the problems faced. People getting paid 10-15k in salaray (Rs.17000 being minimum salary set by govt) and think that anyone talking about the economic issues is a jahil person.

You are priviledged enough to be safe from such problems and be able to call the locals living in the country as jahils.

As usual, instead of admitting you lot will go on saying billu and flana and what will others do....

Atleast dont call the locals jahil just because you are not aware of ground realities.

Living on a salary of Rs.15k and than be insulted by foreigners for not knowing economics.

If you know so much more about ground realities, then why don’t you help explain how the government can fix this? In a democracy, the PM cannot force employers to pay higher salaries. If employers abuse min wage, should it not be the courts or some labor commission that takes action on it? Then again Laws are broken in pakistan at he pace of Shoaib Akhtar’s fastest delivery everyday.

How do we fix this? What can billo rani do to fix it? PPP can’t even fix their biggest city karachi and has run it into the ground, looks like a flood zone every other day. Somehow you want us to believe they will fix the whole country?

Ja bhai kaam kar. Pakistan mein rehtey ho doesn’t somehow give you the right to act all smug here. Maybe ask yourself the more pertinent question if handing the country back to waderas and zameendars will fix it.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

During my last trip to Pakistan a couple of months ago, I met our neighbor who was angry at the government, as his business is suffering and his profits are down. He was constantly blaming IK that his life wasn't that difficult before his government. Then I met my university mate who told me similar concerns that he is being now harassed by FBR under PTI gov now. Then I went to offer my condolences to a cousin (because of the death of an uncle), and he was also calling the government foul names.

The thing is that, I was not shocked at all. I 100% expected this from them. My neighbor's business is water tanker operation or simply what most people call the Water-mafia. He is being asked to pay dues for collecting water now instead of just bribing some employees there to fill his takers. My university mate has been an employee at a multinational firm for some years as administrator, and is responsible for procurement of Office computers and stationary. He buys all the stuff from a dealer, who doesn't exist, because he created the dealer on paper. He buys stuff cheaply from local wholesalers and produces fake receipts and submits them to the company. Of course, his bank account is filling up, so when FBR notices and asks how he gets the money, he cannot reveal how. My Uncle has a successful business and he never revealed his profits nor registered his income. However, he has multiple houses in Clifton and Defense, so it was indeed profitable. Suddenly on his death, the issue of inheritance comes up, and to divide the assets among his children. Now my eldest cousin realizes, that since pretty much all the money is undeclared, they are owed back taxes on it and can't pay his other siblings without losing a hefty chunk of it.

Thing is, I cannot blame them, not all of them are particularly evil people or always rich. They grew up in a corrupt system and to succeed they have to become corrupt as well. That is all they know, how to game the system. So when someone comes up to fix the system, these people can no longer stay successful because their core living is associated with the old system. Hence they want things to go back to normal, because they consider an honest system injustice.

Unfortunately, a lot of people in all classes from lower to middle to upper, have been suffering, and not all of them are corrupt, but they are a product of a corrupt system, and fixing a broken system is very hard. A guy I met at Dubai airport, explained to be the golden times of when he was working as a security guard for a PMLN politician under the last government. He said that he and other guards were given extra money like every other week, when some guests visit. He said, he was able to use that money to build an extra room in his house and take his wife and son to see Murree. But since the last election, the Politician lost his seat, and the extra money that he was getting dried up. He was only paid the salary, because his boss isn't MPA anymore. Now with low salary and with expenses rising, he had to leave Pakistan and come to Dubai, so he could make more money. I wish I could explain to him that his boss was making bank as a member of government and of Punjab assembly before, and the extra money he was getting were pennies that were trickled down on him, but what would have that achieved. He only knows what he experienced.

He and the common man aren't educated enough to realize how corruption was rampant, and certain changes are necessary to fix this, which will result in their temporary hardship. All they know is that their life is more difficult now. So of course they look after those corrupt leaders. The real disappointment is that there are educated people who use this excuse to support corruption and corrupt leaders. They are willfully blind even after knowing, and unfortunately I know several of them as well. It's our countrymen who deserve these people as leaders, because our nation demands them.

I hear same complaints from my family in Pakistan. The concept of taxation is horrific to them, I don't think they understand that this is what pays for public services. I don't blame the ordinary man to be honest, if people in western countries had the chance to avoid tax we'd most of us do it.

 

[Local.Dada]

I am going to be careful the way I phrase this because I know IK is super popular on this forum but would the opposition manage to pull of these stunts if Imran had something tangible to show as his success the last 3 years.

Numbers like 3% exports went up 5% imports went up don’t go too far in the larger scheme of politics.

I am tempted to bring analogy with india but that will just take the thread in a different direction.

What are the odds that there a lot of things IK has to self-introspect on?

I have heard clips of some of his speeches and I know it is to rile up the crowds but I don’t think he is cut out to be a politician or a diplomat yet. Yes he might be a good and honest man but that is not a qualification to be a political administrator. It might be an added bonus that’s about it.

Please no hate. That is my honest perspective looking in from the outside.

 

[pakistanisgreat]

I am going to be careful the way I phrase this because I know IK is super popular on this forum but would the opposition manage to pull of these stunts if Imran had something tangible to show as his success the last 3 years.

Numbers like 3% exports went up 5% imports went up don’t go too far in the larger scheme of politics.

I am tempted to bring analogy with india but that will just take the thread in a different direction.

What are the odds that there a lot of things IK has to self-introspect on?

I have heard clips of some of his speeches and I know it is to rile up the crowds but I don’t think he is cut out to be a politician or a diplomat yet. Yes he might be a good and honest man but that is not a qualification to be a political administrator. It might be an added bonus that’s about it.

Please no hate. That is my honest perspective looking in from the outside.

More than anything his promised that hurt everyone including me.
He said he would rather die than going to IMF. We were very happy that he will not go. yet he went to IMF.
He said he will not include courrpte people in his party. We were very happy. yet most of his members are from other parties whom IK used to bash.
he said he will not bring anyone with Duel nationals. We were happy yet most of his members are dual nationals.
He said he will recover money but he was given wrong information by his own members and nothing was recovered.
People he supposed to put them in jail they all are out and walking free.
There was no accountability whatsoever.

It was a big disappointment for most of us.

 

[Local.Dada]

More than anything his promised that hurt everyone including me.
He said he would rather die than going to IMF. We were very happy that he will not go. yet he went to IMF.
He said he will not include courrpte people in his party. We were very happy. yet most of his members are from other parties whom IK used to bash.
he said he will not bring anyone with Duel nationals. We were happy yet most of his members are dual nationals.
He said he will recover money but he was given wrong information by his own members and nothing was recovered.
People he supposed to put them in jail they all are out and walking free.
There was no accountability whatsoever.

It was a big disappointment for most of us.

Are you local or overseas?

From Imran’s speeches the ones I saw on SM, unless they were edited he has been insulting USA, Europe etc, I am really surprised at his popularity overseas. Obviously Pp or any forum is not the truest demographic for such analysis but to put it simply I would be concerned if my govt was abusing the country I am living in day in and day out.

 

[Ahmad-GERMANFC]

[MENTION=137142]JaDed[/MENTION] [MENTION=151383]Local.Dada[/MENTION] [MENTION=132715]Varun[/MENTION] - india is also seeing inflation and obv the Covid situation was bad for a while. Why do you think government escaped the blame?

 

[RajBan]

I think it's a really good time for Imran to move out. The balance of payments may face challenges in next few months hurting the rupee value further more marked by high inflation. Whichever is the government in this scenario , they will be unpopular as there is no easy way out from here unless Chinese gives 10-12B dollar loan to help out.

Opposition should have actually gone to grab the Punjab government first letting the federal government struggle with the economy and geopolitics. Then early next year when the popularity is even lower for PTI, they should have asked for early elections. In my view Imran govt is in trouble not because of opposition but because security establishment is pulling strings from behind the curtains.

 

[FollowThru]

Yes, is the simple answer. The mafia have bribed their way to power but apparently its all halal. They will have unfettered power- they will have pliant Judiciary, an establishment that stayed neutral and media that they have paid for. Lets see the mafia do what they promised- cut petrol further than he has, cut electricity prices, reform the Judiciary, etc . I hope they dont just look at getting their cases binned and giving NROs to each other

And I think that's not the right answer, if we are talking about no confidence moment. Number game and defections are irrelevant. If it goes on till the day of voting, PDM will lose.

Your answer is right only if PM himself resigns. Otherwise I don't see PDM obtaining more than 172 votes on 28 March.

 

[Stewie]

Are you local or overseas?

From Imran’s speeches the ones I saw on SM, unless they were edited he has been insulting USA, Europe etc, I am really surprised at his popularity overseas. Obviously Pp or any forum is not the truest demographic for such analysis but to put it simply I would be concerned if my govt was abusing the country I am living in day in and day out.

Most Pakistanis dont look at the numbers for performance. They vote for whomever goes easy on them and makes their bank accounts healthy, which is the case for most nations across the world.

IK has not done that, he is trying to clean the system so of course the results will not be tangible right away. But I also understand where he has made U turns and how that has hurt a lot of people.
My take on that is that Imran Khan was toiling in politics since the late 90s or so but not getting anywhere. He was barely winning a seat. Why? Because he refused to compromise on his principles and did not want any of the dirty mafia with him. But eventually he learnt he has to work from within the system so he started making compromises. Whether that is right or wrong, I do not know, I am just describing what I feel has happened, and I am not defending him.

If he did not allow some of these people to come work with him, or worked with IMF and whatnot, he would not be a "politician". Politics, as they say, is dirty business so yes there will be instances when you sell your soul to the devil.

My point in supporting him is: whether he is failing or not, or not succeeding at the level you want or not, the alternative to him is the mafia that has run our country into the ground. It will be back to zerdari and sharif again. they loot loot and loot and take loans to make the country run. This is now how nations are built. I know I am not in Pakistan but I feel if our nation has to be rebuilt, we will go through periods of pain, its like an addict getting weened off drugs. It wont be pretty and it wont be easy.

But then again I dont live in Pakistan and I keep reading of such complaints from people who do.

So perhaps that is the reason, I am supportive of IK because I am 100% sure his intentions for Pakistan are noble. He is not doing this for himself.

 

[Major]

If you know so much more about ground realities, then why don’t you help explain how the government can fix this? In a democracy, the PM cannot force employers to pay higher salaries. If employers abuse min wage, should it not be the courts or some labor commission that takes action on it? Then again Laws are broken in pakistan at he pace of Shoaib Akhtar’s fastest delivery everyday.

How do we fix this? What can billo rani do to fix it? PPP can’t even fix their biggest city karachi and has run it into the ground, looks like a flood zone every other day. Somehow you want us to believe they will fix the whole country?

Ja bhai kaam kar. Pakistan mein rehtey ho doesn’t somehow give you the right to act all smug here. Maybe ask yourself the more pertinent question if handing the country back to waderas and zameendars will fix it.

lol jaa bhai kaam kar.

its ok to insult the locals, but when challenge, this is what htey come up with.

Basically the arugment is, i think x wont do anything about it so why not select y

PPP have worked on economic front many times. They played a big role in increasiing the salaries of govt workers back in the 2007-2012 tenure and also were able to combat the hyper inflation that the country was enterying too

 

[Stewie]

lol jaa bhai kaam kar.

its ok to insult the locals, but when challenge, this is what htey come up with.

Basically the arugment is, i think x wont do anything about it so why not select y

PPP have worked on economic front many times. They played a big role in increasiing the salaries of govt workers back in the 2007-2012 tenure and also were able to combat the hyper inflation that the country was enterying too

so basically the zerdari years after BB was shot, You are basically saying that the zerdari years were the best for you and you want those times to return? Seriously? 2007-2012?

 

[Bewal Express]

lol jaa bhai kaam kar.

its ok to insult the locals, but when challenge, this is what htey come up with.

Basically the arugment is, i think x wont do anything about it so why not select y

PPP have worked on economic front many times. They played a big role in increasiing the salaries of govt workers back in the 2007-2012 tenure and also were able to combat the hyper inflation that the country was enterying too

The PPP looted the country, and has disappeared from Punjab and KP. It is a mafia party that kills journalists or have you forgotten. Is that democracy baby?

 

[Stewie]

I think it's a really good time for Imran to move out. The balance of payments may face challenges in next few months hurting the rupee value further more marked by high inflation. Whichever is the government in this scenario , they will be unpopular as there is no easy way out from here unless Chinese gives 10-12B dollar loan to help out.

Opposition should have actually gone to grab the Punjab government first letting the federal government struggle with the economy and geopolitics. Then early next year when the popularity is even lower for PTI, they should have asked for early elections. In my view Imran govt is in trouble not because of opposition but because security establishment is pulling strings from behind the curtains.

I think its the other way around. The army is fully with him but since they are staying neutral, this sort of stuff is happening. If they were actively forcing the agenda, none of these jokers would be standing up like that. There is a lot of money being pumped into Pakistan after IK decided to with china and russia. The US still likes to keep some of their cronies in charge to maintain "balance" in the region.

 

[RajBan]

Most Pakistanis dont look at the numbers for performance. They vote for whomever goes easy on them and makes their bank accounts healthy, which is the case for most nations across the world.

IK has not done that, he is trying to clean the system so of course the results will not be tangible right away. But I also understand where he has made U turns and how that has hurt a lot of people.
My take on that is that Imran Khan was toiling in politics since the late 90s or so but not getting anywhere. He was barely winning a seat. Why? Because he refused to compromise on his principles and did not want any of the dirty mafia with him. But eventually he learnt he has to work from within the system so he started making compromises. Whether that is right or wrong, I do not know, I am just describing what I feel has happened, and I am not defending him.

If he did not allow some of these people to come work with him, or worked with IMF and whatnot, he would not be a "politician". Politics, as they say, is dirty business so yes there will be instances when you sell your soul to the devil.

My point in supporting him is: whether he is failing or not, or not succeeding at the level you want or not, the alternative to him is the mafia that has run our country into the ground. It will be back to zerdari and sharif again. they loot loot and loot and take loans to make the country run. This is now how nations are built. I know I am not in Pakistan but I feel if our nation has to be rebuilt, we will go through periods of pain, its like an addict getting weened off drugs. It wont be pretty and it wont be easy.

But then again I dont live in Pakistan and I keep reading of such complaints from people who do.

So perhaps that is the reason, I am supportive of IK because I am 100% sure his intentions for Pakistan are noble. He is not doing this for himself.

What's your take on Imran siding with religious right? He has been part of urban liberal/moderate class in his younger days, the reason why NRPs in US support him a lot( infact he was largely popular in India as well ). But he has completely changed that image of his once in power. Not sure if he thinks that is the best way to outcompete his counterpart government in India or is compromise the need of the hour with lot of vulnerabilities in Afghanistan and on Pakistan 's western border.

 

[Stewie]

What's your take on Imran siding with religious right? He has been part of urban liberal/moderate class in his younger days, the reason why NRPs in US support him a lot( infact he was largely popular in India as well ). But he has completely changed that image of his once in power. Not sure if he thinks that is the best way to outcompete his counterpart government in India or is compromise the need of the hour with lot of vulnerabilities in Afghanistan and on Pakistan 's western border.

There is no "siding" with religious right. I do not know what gave you that idea. The religious right in Pakistan is always a tool, not a power. I see this fear being talked about a lot by Indians here and in real life but that truth of the matter is the religious political parties in Pakistan have never been in power. They are all as crooked as the next guy though and they act as tools to destabilize whoever is in power. Zerdari, Sharif, Musharraf, BB, etc they were all centrist or left of center leaders. None of them aligned with religious parties and IK has not aligned with them either. In fact its the Maulana Diesel as we call him who is his staunchest critic.

As a politician, IK did united with him to protest against the government when he was in opposition but thats what all oppositions do. They form unions with other parties to form an alliance to overthrow those in power.

You have to understand the politics of Pakistan is very different from India's. India has its own challenges but none similar to Pakistan's due to its more complicated demographic dynamics, ethno-religious leanings and whatnot. In Pakistan its mostly based on regions (you have PPP in Sindh and PMLN in Punjab). If you ask them how are they different politically (as in conservative, liberal, right leaning or left leaning, etc) honestly I dont think they will even be able to answer that question. They are all the same in that regard i.e corrupt but definitely not Right Leaning as you would define that term.

 

[LaLoco]

What's your take on Imran siding with religious right? He has been part of urban liberal/moderate class in his younger days, the reason why NRPs in US support him a lot( infact he was largely popular in India as well ). But he has completely changed that image of his once in power. Not sure if he thinks that is the best way to outcompete his counterpart government in India or is compromise the need of the hour with lot of vulnerabilities in Afghanistan and on Pakistan 's western border.

Become spiritual after his mother was diagnosed with cancer.

His narrative about religion had been same before and after he became PM.

Supporting Taliban on western border has nothing to do with religion as all of the Afghanistan is Muslim predominant, it has to do with politics and geo-politics.

He became unpopular in India because he call out the extremist government of BJP.

IK government is probably the most liberal government and probably the only current party that can have any impact of minimizing whatever radicalism left from 80's afghan war because he believe in human development, the only way to change it, No other party in Pakistan will or capable of doing that.

 

[Stewie]

He has personally grown more conservative in his life. He is more religious, but I would not consider than necessarily detrimental to Pakistan. There are a lot more unIslamic things happening in Pakistan in the name of Islam so if he happens to clean some of them in light of the religious teachings or using religion as a tool, its not a bad thing.

I would like to note here that I have seen Indians, (once again) usiing right leaning or religiosity of Muslims or Pakistanis as a bad thing, as if its the other of all evils, but my opinion is that if the Islamic ideology of being fair and just to minorities is probably the best thing that can happen to Pakistan right now. Also the religious nature of his means he is more attuned to being anti corruption and honest (a lot of others have used religion to spread corruption)

 

[Stewie]

Supporting Taliban is a political need. The problem is that the taliban are a very potent force in Afghanistan.

Think about it this way: US after nearly 20 years could not wipe them out and they took the country back within days of american withdrawal. You cannot wipe them out. Its not possible. You have to work with them. That has been Imran's agenda all along. You try to get them to the table and act sensible, not try to force a misguided agenda in the name of Islam or shove their mutated version of Islam down people's throat. and more importantly, to cut down the terrorist threats along the border or afghanistan. The key is for taliban to not provide safe haven to other terrorist outfits like bin Laden and you can only get them to play that game is if you bring them to the table.

The other challenge in Afghanistan is the power vaccuum which was created when the Russians left, and all these warlords wanted to take over and resulted in a civil war. The taliban were a reaction to that situation, and they took over by defeating all these individual groups in afghanistan. so its a case of choosing the lesser evil and hoping with some work, the evil will diminish. That has been IK's policy in working with them and its not necessarily a bad thing. You can act all bullish and say we will just go in and wipe them out... well.. the americans tried that and failed miserably.

 

[RajBan]

There is no "siding" with religious right. I do not know what gave you that idea. The religious right in Pakistan is always a tool, not a power. I see this fear being talked about a lot by Indians here and in real life but that truth of the matter is the religious political parties in Pakistan have never been in power. They are all as crooked as the next guy though and they act as tools to destabilize whoever is in power. Zerdari, Sharif, Musharraf, BB, etc they were all centrist or left of center leaders. None of them aligned with religious parties and IK has not aligned with them either. In fact its the Maulana Diesel as we call him who is his staunchest critic.

As a politician, IK did united with him to protest against the government when he was in opposition but thats what all oppositions do. They form unions with other parties to form an alliance to overthrow those in power.

You have to understand the politics of Pakistan is very different from India's. India has its own challenges but none similar to Pakistan's due to its more complicated demographic dynamics, ethno-religious leanings and whatnot. In Pakistan its mostly based on regions (you have PPP in Sindh and PMLN in Punjab). If you ask them how are they different politically (as in conservative, liberal, right leaning or left leaning, etc) honestly I dont think they will even be able to answer that question. They are all the same in that regard i.e corrupt but definitely not Right Leaning as you would define that term.

I get what you are saying in terms of politics. I was thinking why he tried to accomodate TLP which is far religious right and not a political party per se. In his younger days he would not have given a damn about such entities.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Become spiritual after his mother was diagnosed with cancer.

His narrative about religion had been same before and after he became PM.

Supporting Taliban on western border has nothing to do with religion as all of the Afghanistan is Muslim predominant, it has to do with politics and geo-politics.

He became unpopular in India because he call out the extremist government of BJP.

IK government is probably the most liberal government and probably the only current party that can have any impact of minimizing whatever radicalism left from 80's afghan war because he believe in human development, the only way to change it, No other party in Pakistan will or capable of doing that.

He also has cultural roots from the areas which produced the Taliban, he is quite a proud Pashtun, and they are usually quite hardcore religion wise. He's always going to be careful what he says about them publicly to avoid looking like a traitor.

 

[RajBan]

Supporting Taliban is a political need. The problem is that the taliban are a very potent force in Afghanistan.

Think about it this way: US after nearly 20 years could not wipe them out and they took the country back within days of american withdrawal. You cannot wipe them out. Its not possible. You have to work with them. That has been Imran's agenda all along. You try to get them to the table and act sensible, not try to force a misguided agenda in the name of Islam or shove their mutated version of Islam down people's throat. and more importantly, to cut down the terrorist threats along the border or afghanistan. The key is for taliban to not provide safe haven to other terrorist outfits like bin Laden and you can only get them to play that game is if you bring them to the table.

The other challenge in Afghanistan is the power vaccuum which was created when the Russians left, and all these warlords wanted to take over and resulted in a civil war. The taliban were a reaction to that situation, and they took over by defeating all these individual groups in afghanistan. so its a case of choosing the lesser evil and hoping with some work, the evil will diminish. That has been IK's policy in working with them and its not necessarily a bad thing. You can act all bullish and say we will just go in and wipe them out... well.. the americans tried that and failed miserably.

This part I understand, the only thing that goes against this plan is Taliban does not have capacity to completely fill the vaccum in terms of governance even if it is a very conservative one. This allowing splinter groups to play games of their own. IS K is one such entity who are independent of Taliban and can act unpredictability thus creating a volatile environment. Also makes it a breeding ground for external forces to play proxy in future.

 

[Local.Dada]

This part I understand, the only thing that goes against this plan is Taliban does not have capacity to completely fill the vaccum in terms of governance even if it is a very conservative one. This allowing splinter groups to play games of their own. IS K is one such entity who are independent of Taliban and can act unpredictability thus creating a volatile environment. Also makes it a breeding ground for external forces to play proxy in future.

I don’t know how someone can expect the Taliban even if they have full public support back home to keep with economics, diplomacy, nation building etc in modern times.

Anyways that might have been political for public consumption which is fine for politicians and even the constant rhetoric about the Taliban and aid to Afghanistan despite not getting any traction can be overlooked. However it became a problem when that was linked to America’s “defeat” and the constant rubbing it in the face of American government. Biden is one of the most divisive presidents and he was embarrassed by the Afghan criticism. What part of needling him again and again and taunting can be considered as smart diplomacy?

IK is an honest man. I can buy that. He also wants to do good for the country. Even though I don’t have 0.1 % of accomplishments as Imran Khan I can say most of us have those 2 attributes common with him but no one is going to make us a diplomat or hand a country to us. He seems too emotional to run a country and that too a country that has some issues currently.

 

[Stewie]

This part I understand, the only thing that goes against this plan is Taliban does not have capacity to completely fill the vaccum in terms of governance even if it is a very conservative one. This allowing splinter groups to play games of their own. IS K is one such entity who are independent of Taliban and can act unpredictability thus creating a volatile environment. Also makes it a breeding ground for external forces to play proxy in future.

I am sure there is merit to some of what you have said. I wont agree fully, however, because pre 9/11, Taliban had provided the most stability to Afghanistan post russian invasion. They were in chaos with their civil war and the Taliban restored some normalcy when they took over, yes their draconian implementation of what they consider Islam is very disconcerting, however, if you ask the locals, they will tell you the taliban did provide a lot of benefits as well, employment, fight against lawlessness, etc.
When it comes to governance, I dont think any other party or faction in Afghanistan is more suitably placed at the moment to replace the taliban. Their american installed President was the first one to tuck his tail between his legs and run, so go figure!

 

[Stewie]

I don’t know how someone can expect the Taliban even if they have full public support back home to keep with economics, diplomacy, nation building etc in modern times.

Anyways that might have been political for public consumption which is fine for politicians and even the constant rhetoric about the Taliban and aid to Afghanistan despite not getting any traction can be overlooked. However it became a problem when that was linked to America’s “defeat” and the constant rubbing it in the face of American government. Biden is one of the most divisive presidents and he was embarrassed by the Afghan criticism. What part of needling him again and again and taunting can be considered as smart diplomacy?

IK is an honest man. I can buy that. He also wants to do good for the country. Even though I don’t have 0.1 % of accomplishments as Imran Khan I can say most of us have those 2 attributes common with him but no one is going to make us a diplomat or hand a country to us. He seems too emotional to run a country and that too a country that has some issues currently.

You would call it emotional but I call it showing character and defending us. When Americans have never shown diplomacy and thrown us under the bus time and again as an excuse for their failure in Afghanistan, why is it not ok for us to bare our teeth and rub their noses in it when the situation calls for it? Lets call it as it is: the americans failed in afghanistan, refused to listen to us, demanded more and made it seem like they were giving us charity, while the truth was they were paying us for our services rendered and then putting the blame onus when it all failed.

it is ok to be emotional if it means protecting your nation's dignity and pride. We dont want such friends!

 

[Local.Dada]

You would call it emotional but I call it showing character and defending us. When Americans have never shown diplomacy and thrown us under the bus time and again as an excuse for their failure in Afghanistan, why is it not ok for us to bare our teeth and rub their noses in it when the situation calls for it? Lets call it as it is: the americans failed in afghanistan, refused to listen to us, demanded more and made it seem like they were giving us charity, while the truth was they were paying us for our services rendered and then putting the blame onus when it all failed.

it is ok to be emotional if it means protecting your nation's dignity and pride. We dont want such friends!

Pride and emotional rhetoric doesn’t put food on the table for the common man . That is why most overseas folk continue making a living in countries that might have hurt us in the past with their actions. You come to peace with it and accept the good things those nations provide. That is called being pragmatic and putting your family first.

 

[KingKhanWC]

The Indian 'friends' seem high with happiness hoping IK goes.

They are not alone the Americans are also desperate for IK to end his tenure. I wonder how much they have paid in $ to their puppets.

The Pakistanis whose families made money via corruption working for the likes PPP and PLMN are also happy

 

[Stewie]

Pride and emotional rhetoric doesn’t put food on the table for the common man . That is why most overseas folk continue making a living in countries that might have hurt us in the past with their actions. You come to peace with it and accept the good things those nations provide. That is called being pragmatic and putting your family first.

There is a long history there you might not be privy to and quite honestly this seems trivial looking at the bigger picture. I dont think he is overly emotional and detrimental to "putting food on the table"

 

[Ahmad-GERMANFC]

Become spiritual after his mother was diagnosed with cancer.

His narrative about religion had been same before and after he became PM.

Supporting Taliban on western border has nothing to do with religion as all of the Afghanistan is Muslim predominant, it has to do with politics and geo-politics.

He became unpopular in India because he call out the extremist government of BJP.

IK government is probably the most liberal government and probably the only current party that can have any impact of minimizing whatever radicalism left from 80's afghan war because he believe in human development, the only way to change it, No other party in Pakistan will or capable of doing that.

Imran Khan party is liberal. My family voted for him but that’s new.

Ahmadis for example haven’t had it worse in these last 3 years since 1970s.. Shia massacred are a biannual thing.. Imran khan has blamed women for being raped… he is most certainly not liberal

 

[Ahmad-GERMANFC]

Also who can forget his continuous bowing down to TLP while at the same time saying hazara Shia are blackmailing him

 

[Major]

so basically the zerdari years after BB was shot, You are basically saying that the zerdari years were the best for you and you want those times to return? Seriously? 2007-2012?

i cant help it if you are not aware of the economic problems that existed because of musharaffe and were rectified in the long run by the ppp policies

 

[Major]

Most Pakistanis dont look at the numbers for performance. They vote for whomever goes easy on them and makes their bank accounts healthy, which is the case for most nations across the world.

IK has not done that, he is trying to clean the system so of course the results will not be tangible right away. But I also understand where he has made U turns and how that has hurt a lot of people.
My take on that is that Imran Khan was toiling in politics since the late 90s or so but not getting anywhere. He was barely winning a seat. Why? Because he refused to compromise on his principles and did not want any of the dirty mafia with him. But eventually he learnt he has to work from within the system so he started making compromises. Whether that is right or wrong, I do not know, I am just describing what I feel has happened, and I am not defending him.

If he did not allow some of these people to come work with him, or worked with IMF and whatnot, he would not be a "politician". Politics, as they say, is dirty business so yes there will be instances when you sell your soul to the devil.

My point in supporting him is: whether he is failing or not, or not succeeding at the level you want or not, the alternative to him is the mafia that has run our country into the ground. It will be back to zerdari and sharif again. they loot loot and loot and take loans to make the country run. This is now how nations are built. I know I am not in Pakistan but I feel if our nation has to be rebuilt, we will go through periods of pain, its like an addict getting weened off drugs. It wont be pretty and it wont be easy.

But then again I dont live in Pakistan and I keep reading of such complaints from people who do.

So perhaps that is the reason, I am supportive of IK because I am 100% sure his intentions for Pakistan are noble. He is not doing this for himself.

making an assumption while living abroad.

The mafia the mafia the mafia........ the govt in control couldn't target the so called mafia, and they should lead us again.


no thank you, happy with ppp

 

[KingKhanWC]

making an assumption while living abroad.

The mafia the mafia the mafia........ the govt in control couldn't target the so called mafia, and they should lead us again.


no thank you, happy with ppp

When you lived in India, did you(family) work under the PPP government?

 

[Major]

When you lived in India, did you(family) work under the PPP government?

a civil servant does not get to choose who to work under. He has to work under any govt that comes into power, the govt should never concern him and his work.

 

[pakistanisgreat]

making an assumption while living abroad.

The mafia the mafia the mafia........ the govt in control couldn't target the so called mafia, and they should lead us again.


no thank you, happy with ppp

This Mafia thing i have been hearing for last 4 years. What Ik has done to control this Mafia?

 

[Major]

This Mafia thing i have been hearing for last 4 years. What Ik has done to control this Mafia?

exactly my point. The pm himself blaming it on some mafia, tou bhai you are the pm do something about it. Is he soo powerless?

funny thing is hoarding of diffeernt items were being done by his own party members

 

[KingKhanWC]

a civil servant does not get to choose who to work under. He has to work under any govt that comes into power, the govt should never concern him and his work.

In most countries but we know in Pakistan, jobs are given to the boys.

I have no idea about you but when PTI came, so many who used courrption to gain work or steal from Pakistani people soon lost their haram income. Now they are lusting because they think the money will be rolling back in while Pakistan as a nation goes down.

 

[Major]

In most countries but we know in Pakistan, jobs are given to the boys.

I have no idea about you but when PTI came, so many who used courrption to gain work or steal from Pakistani people soon lost their haram income. Now they are lusting because they think the money will be rolling back in while Pakistan as a nation goes down.

Civil servants are selected on merit. The examination is one of the toughest.

There arent any political appointees. If there are, you can take each other to court.

Also, politicians cannot fire you if you disobey them. Yes there is political pressure, but its on you how to react. Firdous Ashiq awan pressurized my dad to give free paid jobs to her people but my dad refused straight up.

I know you want to make claims that my family might be corrupt, and me saying no wont be enough for you .

 

[KingKhanWC]

Civil servants are selected on merit. The examination is one of the toughest.

There arent any political appointees. If there are, you can take each other to court.

Also, politicians cannot fire you if you disobey them. Yes there is political pressure, but its on you how to react. Firdous Ashiq awan pressurized my dad to give free paid jobs to her people but my dad refused straight up.

I know you want to make claims that my family might be corrupt, and me saying no wont be enough for you .

Civil servents often change with the government depending on their job roles. We both know why.

I dont need to make any claim. All PPP servents in any sort of high profile job were part of the theft. Zardari is the biggest theif in Pakistans history.

 

[Stewie]

This Mafia thing i have been hearing for last 4 years. What Ik has done to control this Mafia?

We have a culture of corruption, where everybody is busy pulling the rug from everybody else's feet to get forward and make money, the mafia has been in place for decades if not since the creation of Pakistan, its actually a big blight on the character of our nation but thats how we are, as much as I am embarrassed to admit it. It goes from top down to the bottom most rung, where almost everybody is involved in some form or fashion.

Do we really expect Imran or his party, assuming they are all clean (which is a tall order in itself) to clean up the system in 4 years? I think its ridiculous to suggest its possible and put the blame on one man's inability to fix it. The best we can hope for is for him to lead by example, do the best he can and hope the culture is rooted out slowly but surely. It will take at least a generation to see the change coming into effect if the efforts are successful.

Our nation expects changes overnight, but we are such hypocrites we dont look at ourselves in the mirror. The change starts from home, every single individual needs to play his part, but like I said we are too busy slinging mud at the one man who nobody accuses of corruption and instead in our chase for quick fixes to our personal bottom line want the same goons installed back in who got us in this mess in the first place.