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Are Pakistan capable of learning from their mistakes?

Junaids

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Being trounced in Australia is a routine experience for everyone apart from South Africa, whose conditions are so similar.

And, of course, in spite of toothless bowling, all three Tests went late into Day 5, which is unusual, and the first two were only lost because of a batting failure in one innings.

So I would argue that Pakistan got around 75% of the tour right. The question is whether they have the insight and the will to address the other 25% of issues.

What Pakistan did right

1. They identified and persevered with Azhar Ali, Asad Shafiq, Sarfraz Ahmed and Wahab Riaz.
2. They played enough cricket outside Asia in the preceding six months to give their batsmen a chance.
3. They brought in Mickey Arthur and Steve Rixon.
4. They excluded Mohammad Hafeez and Zulfiqar Babar from the squad.

What Pakistan did wrong

1. They messed up their scheduling and gave themselves too little time in New Zealand and Australia to acclimatise and to see that their bowling plans were not going to work. They could easily have played the home West Indies Tests before the ODI and T20 matches, but didn't.

2. They failed to see this tour as the culmination of a two year playing cycle. This meant that short-term selection policies ensured that Sami Aslam and Babar Azam arrived as rookies, and learned from their mistakes 18-24 months too late.

3. They failed to understand that outside Asia your two best quicks deliver more in a four man pace attack than a three man one - it's all about limiting workloads to maximise pace. Even Hammad Azam or Aamer Yamin would have strengthened this side - and been able to open the bowling in the Second Innings at the SCG. This of course is why Australia has tried both Mitchell Marsh and Hilton Cartwright at Number 6.

4. They failed to anticipate that Yasir Shah would have limited effectiveness. I wrote long ago that he lacks the overspin needed in Australia. But the second key moment was when Australia called up Renshaw and Maddinson meaning five left-handers in the Top Seven. At that point every plan needed to go out the window, with SOS calls sent out to Mohammad Hafeez and Saeed Ajmal, with a licence to chuck. But Misbah and Mickey ploughed on, full steam ahead, into the iceberg.

5. They failed to anticipate that using Yasir Shah as stock bowler meant that the quicks only got a 3 minute break between overs rather than a 5 minute break. Steve Smith was clear that he used Jackson Bird more than Nathan Lyon to give his strike bowlers a longer break between overs. By the time they reached the SCG Mohammad Amir was out on his feet.

6. There was too much of an emphasis on "team harmony" and too little respect for past performances in the conditions. A political veto might have kept out Salman Butt and Mohammad Asif even after they hit top form at home. But Umar Akmal's Australian track record in Tests and A Tests is excellent too, and he was sorely missed in a way that he wouldn't be anywhere else apart, perhaps, from South Africa.

7. It's been seven years since the last Test tour to Australia. Why hasn't Pakistan A visited? Surely Pakistan A should visit places like England, New Zealand, Australia and South Africa a year before every senior tour there - and possibly play Pakistan at minor grounds.

8. Misbah is a proven failure as a batsman in Australia and South Africa. Had anybody done an assessment to determine whether he might fail as a batsman at the age of 42? Even Younis, at 43, arguably outweighed his masterful 175 not out on a helpful track at Sydney with his failures in the collapses at Brisbane and Melbourne.

It's great that Pakistan got 75% right. But the 25% of errors turned a highly winnable tour into a whitewash defeat.

I am pretty sure that England and India have learned from similar mistakes: in the space of 3 years India converted a 4-0 whitewash into a 2-0 defeat.

But can Pakistan learn from their mistakes? Can they schedule properly before the 2018 England and 2018-19 South Africa tours?
 
The tour has been nowhere near as bad as is being made out. We competed well in the first two tests, were inches away from victory in one, and should have easily got a draw from the second. The third test was a bit of a thrashing but only because morale was down, uncertainty regarding Misbah, dead rubber and our best two bowlers were carrying injuries.
 
One of the biggest mistakes was playing Babar at number 3. No other team in the world plays a rookies at number - let alone on the rookie's first test tour to australia.

Younis should've batted at number 3 or even Asad Shafiq. Now that they have played Babar at 3 though, they should at least let him play at 3 for entire 2016.
 
Will Pakistan learn from its mistakes? The answer is a resounding no.

All the suggestions made by the OP are fair and anyone who is working sincerely and diligently, can come up with a plan. Australia, England and India have turned around their teams multiple times in recent past.

No one in Pakistan is honestly concerned with the team's performance. The board, administration, the coaches, the players - everyone just wants to save their own seat without having to work for it.

Unfortunately, this is not a problem that's not limited to cricket. The entire country is in shambles due to same sort of culture and mind-set. The cricket team is a reflection of the country itself.
 
I think that the discontinuation of a rest day after Day 3 has completely changed Test cricket outside Asia. And it means that all sides need one of the Top Six batsmen (or Number 7 if Pakistan elevates Sarfraz) to be capable of bowling a 4 over spell of fast-medium bowling in every session.

That's why Mitchell Starc was below his best in this series in a 3+1 attack.
 
Not happening any time soon.

We will always have the raw talent in batting and bowling, and some decent players here and there but the bad management and terrible coaching will never sharpen the new coming talented guys into wolrd class players. And therefore, we will win matches on our lucky days but get exposed most of the times.

This is not going to change in our entire lifetime.
 
I take shots every time you mention Asif and Butt :)) I like Wahab to but he was god awful on this tour
 
I take shots every time you mention Asif and Butt :)) I like Wahab to but he was god awful on this tour

Well he was our best fast bowler during the tour, others were awful as well, he is worth keeping. Ones who need to go are Rahat,Sohail, and Imran.
 
Pakistan can learn but not the current PCB leadership.

This! We could've easily played the LOIs before the tests, would've been done in mid November, a whole month before the NZ tests.

Desperately need someone competent to be the chairman...
 
Well he was our best fast bowler during the tour, others were awful as well, he is worth keeping. Ones who need to go are Rahat,Sohail, and Imran.

Definetly shouldn't drop him but he was average, average isn't good enough although the others were awful as well. Mohammad Asif needs to return and we can blood in a couple of other rookie seamers e.g mir hamaz, zia ul haq etc Under Asif's tutorship they'd bowl a lot better to as would Amir
 
Definetly shouldn't drop him but he was average, average isn't good enough although the others were awful as well. Mohammad Asif needs to return and we can blood in a couple of other rookie seamers e.g mir hamaz, zia ul haq etc Under Asif's tutorship they'd bowl a lot better to as would Amir

A main problem is lack of right-armers. Imo, two of Asif, Sadaf and Hasan should replace Imran and Sohail.
 
Unfortunately, this requires people who are sincerely passionate about improving Pakistan Cricket in the PCB, team management and even a captain and a set of players who take defeats personally rather than treating representing the Pakistani team like a 9-5 job
 
All we need is one honest and courageous chairman who has the guts to take drastic decisions. Lets see if Inzamam lives upto people's expectations and takes things in his own hands.
 
If we had learned anything from our past mistakes .... we would be The Smartest Team in Cricket !!!
 
A main problem is lack of right-armers. Imo, two of Asif, Sadaf and Hasan should replace Imran and Sohail.

Yes I forgot about Hasan Ali he is someone I want in the test team but I keep forgetting him given how we're spoilt for choice when it comes to the lefties, this should be our attack:

Amir
Asif
Wahab / Zia / Sadaf / Mir Hamza
Hasan Ali / Ehsan Adil
Hammad Azam

[MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] what do you think of me pace battery
 
And, of course, in spite of toothless bowling, all three Tests went late into Day 5, which is unusual, and the first two were only lost because of a batting failure in one innings.



3rd test - match lasted 357 overs

2nd test - match lasted 321 overs

1st test - match lasted 369 overs

Normal 4 days with 90 overs -- 360 overs.

2 tests lasted less than 4 days. One test lasted 4 days and few overs of 5th day.


Nothing unusual about match lasting till last session due to rain taking out so many overs. In fact, Pakistan should be extremely disappointed to not draw any test despite rain taking out so many overs. Without rain, 3 tests saw less than 4 days of cricket on average. Toothless bowling was surely a factor, but batsmen not able to draw single test despite so much rain was a poor performance.
 
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3rd test - match lasted 357 overs

2nd test - match lasted 321 overs

1st test - match lasted 369 overs

Normal 4 days with 90 overs -- 360 overs.

2 tests lasted less than 4 days. One test lasted 4 days and few overs of 5th day.


Nothing unusual about match lasting till last session due to rain taking out so many overs. In fact, Pakistan should be extremely disappointed to not draw any test despite rain taking out so many overs. Without rain, 3 tests saw less than 4 days of cricket on average. Toothless bowling was surely a factor, but batsmen not able to draw single test despite so much rain was a poor performance.

I was about to post the exact same thing !! I would like to add that since all pitches were pretty flat surfaces ... not being able to bat out for a draw on such pitches should be a cause of concern for Pak mgmt. Biggest let down was Misbah.
 
3rd test - match lasted 357 overs

2nd test - match lasted 321 overs

1st test - match lasted 369 overs

Normal 4 days with 90 overs -- 360 overs.

2 tests lasted less than 4 days. One test lasted 4 days and few overs of 5th day.


Nothing unusual about match lasting till last session due to rain taking out so many overs. In fact, Pakistan should be extremely disappointed to not draw any test despite rain taking out so many overs. Without rain, 3 tests saw less than 4 days of cricket on average. Toothless bowling was surely a factor, but batsmen not able to draw single test despite so much rain was a poor performance.

I was about to post the exact same thing !! I would like to add that since all pitches were pretty flat surfaces ... not being able to bat out for a draw on such pitches should be a cause of concern for Pak mgmt. Biggest let down was Misbah.
I agree with you both.

If you compare the records, the only standout bowler was Josh Hazlewood. In particular, Mitch Starc had a very similar record to Wahab Riaz.

This means that we watched Tests on the pitches [MENTION=132373]Convict[/MENTION] describes each year latterly, where 500 is like 300 normally.

The bowlers certainly didn't win it for Pakistan. But the batsmen lost it.
 
3rd test - match lasted 357 overs

2nd test - match lasted 321 overs

1st test - match lasted 369 overs

Normal 4 days with 90 overs -- 360 overs.

2 tests lasted less than 4 days. One test lasted 4 days and few overs of 5th day.


Nothing unusual about match lasting till last session due to rain taking out so many overs. In fact, Pakistan should be extremely disappointed to not draw any test despite rain taking out so many overs. Without rain, 3 tests saw less than 4 days of cricket on average. Toothless bowling was surely a factor, but batsmen not able to draw single test despite so much rain was a poor performance.

We indian fans used to tell the other fans that australian wickets are flat roads and it has nothing to do with aus pleasing bcci and giving them roads.

Everyone laughed at us and called it bcci conspiracy as how can india draw 2 matches in australia and competed well in other 2 matches also.

After our tour every series played in aus like against wi,nz,pak and even sa .inspite of so many overs lost due to rain pak couldnt draw a single game even on flat roads
 
Restart the New Zealand and Australian tours again with a different team and we will still get hammered. It is not about learning anything, we just don't have the players capable of playing the attacking brand of Cricket New Zealand and Australia do in their countries. It's just to fast, aggressive and furious to our much slower game.
 
Restart the New Zealand and Australian tours again with a different team and we will still get hammered. It is not about learning anything, we just don't have the players capable of playing the attacking brand of Cricket New Zealand and Australia do in their countries. It's just to fast, aggressive and furious to our much slower game.
I thought Pakistan played aggressive cricket in England. Though England are in transition at present and not playing test matches confidently.
 
I thought Pakistan played aggressive cricket in England. Though England are in transition at present and not playing test matches confidently.

By our standards it probably was aggressive. The Australian's in particular snarl at you with venom when they don't get their way. Compared to them our player's are pussycat's.
 
How can the team learn from their mistakes when the fans cover them up by stating 'How many series/games did Moyo/Inzi win in Australia'

When the fans are simply trying to defend their favourites by stating that the players in the past didn't win there either the mentality is pretty clear. If each set of players also has this mentality and just compare their losses to the losses of the players before them we will never get anywhere.
 
2017 australia - we were thrashed
2018 new zealand - we were thrashed
2019 south africa - we are getting thrashed
 
Pakistani players are only capable of repeating this line again and again to fool everyone..

Before the series:
"We have learned from our past mistakes"

After the series:
"We will learn from our mistakes"
 
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