Are Pakistani Kashmiris scared of the state?

[KingKhanWC]

You learn something new everyday.

Is it really true Kashmiri's in Pakistan do not protest or throw stones against the Pakistan security forces because they are scared the state will come down heavy on them, kill them etc? They hate Pakistan and want nothing to do with it?

A poster wrote

"Pakistani Kashmiris are silent because they saw what you did to Bangladeshis when we wanted independence"

[MENTION=146517]Traveller55[/MENTION]

Read more at http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/showthread.php?166124-Ajmal-Kasab-hanged/page4#PJr7ofwcIFe5fP4U.99

 

[shaz619]

I think that when one is disgruntled there is bound to be protest on some level regardless, perhaps Pakistani Kashmiri PPers can elaborate further but the general feeling I get is that they seem quiet satisfied with the Pak forces

 

[KingKhanWC]

I think that when one is disgruntled there is bound to be protest on some level regardless, perhaps Pakistani Kashmiri PPers can elaborate further but the general feeling I get is that they seem quiet satisfied with the Pak forces

I think it's well known most of the residents would like indpendence but they are in a far better place than those in IOK,

Concern over human rights abuses stands at 43% on the Indian side and 19% on the Pakistani side

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10161171

Can anyone from Azad Kashmir comment please?

Are there protests against Pakistan as there against India in IOK?

Do the Pak security forces fire pellets at children?

Are there mass unidentified graves as there in IOK?

I just find it very surprising someone would suggest the Kashmirir's in Pakistan feel the same way as those in IOK but are too scared of the Pak forces to even protest let alone resist? [MENTION=146517]Traveller55[/MENTION]

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Isn't this Traveller guy the one who claimed to have mixed parentage from Bangladesh and Kashmir and is confirmed he was living in Canada (after I suggested he was in the UK)? Quite difficult to keep up with these new arrivals on PP.

 

[www787]

If Pakistani Kashmiri were not satisfied Indian government would have already caused so much headache for Pakistan like they did in Bangladesh.

 

[Eagle_Eye]

I think it's well known most of the residents would like indpendence but they are in a far better place than those in IOK,



http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10161171

Can anyone from Azad Kashmir comment please?

Are there protests against Pakistan as there against India in IOK?

Do the Pak security forces fire pellets at children?

Are there mass unidentified graves as there in IOK?

I just find it very surprising someone would suggest the Kashmirir's in Pakistan feel the same way as those in IOK but are too scared of the Pak forces to even protest let alone resist? [MENTION=146517]Traveller55[/MENTION]

I have already commented on the other thread. The poster is talking out of his backside .... straight from the Indian ministry of misinformation.

Punjabis and Pashtun are nearly 50% according to him .... When someone comes up with that, they sort of give themselves away.

AJK if anything is quite heavily over represented in the Pakistan army ...

 

[Pakpak]

Majority of British Pakistanis are from AJK, their love for our team should tell these Indian trolls all they need to know.

 

[Pakistanian]

No. That's the only right answer.

 

[Wasim_Waqar]

It is all propaganda made to malign Pakistan.

Thankfully, it’s a lot of rubbish.

I’m from AJK. I would say 9/10 of us in AJK want Pakistan.

It’s an absolute myth that the majority want independence. You hear nothing from AJK because people are happy and the odd voice you might hear is a pro-independence one.

In Kashmir valley, I have friends who have stated they would die to become a formal part of Pakistan.

I also spoke to my friend who’s a prominent journalist in Srinagar. He said that people can’t openly express pro-Pakistan sentiment on a larger scale because they fear for their lives. He tells me that if there is a referendum tomorrow, Pakistan will win 90 percent of the votes within Indian occupied Kashmir valley.

As you all know, I’ve been a prominent campaigner on Kashmir for years and have posted numerous times.

 

[Wasim_Waqar]

Ps there’s so such thing as “Pakistani” or “Indian” Kashmiris. People in AJK call themselves Pakistanis whereas in IOK kashmiris don’t call themselves Indian.

 

[Wasim_Waqar]

There are zero protests against Pakistan in AJK.

The Bradnock poll in 2010 was littered with bias. I would ignore it!

I spoke to my well-known prominent journalist friend in Srinagar recently who said if there’s a poll that’s fair with NEUTRAL observers, Pakistan is winning 90 percent of the votes in Indian occupied Kashmir valley. He also stated Doda, Bhaderwah (Chenab valley) areas full of Muslims in Jammu are even more pro Pakistan than Kashmir valley.

It is Jammu city and Udhampur and Kathua that are pro India and mainly Hindu.

 

[Wasim_Waqar]

My journo friend from Srinagar states the people of Kashmir valley’s pro-Pakistan sentiment is purposefully suppressed. Therefore people can’t be open about wanting union with Pakistan eg they are thrown into jails.

It’s only a matter of time until Pakistan has kashmir valley. The pro-independence sentiment is a creation of the Indian state to deliberately weaken the pro-Pakistani sentiment of wanting union of Kashmir valley with Pakistan.

Ask [MENTION=131678]Madplayer[/MENTION] for his opinion. He’s from Srinagar.

 

[big_gamer007]

There are zero protests against Pakistan in AJK.

The Bradnock poll in 2010 was littered with bias. I would ignore it!

I spoke to my well-known prominent journalist friend in Srinagar recently who said if there’s a poll that’s fair with NEUTRAL observers, Pakistan is winning 90 percent of the votes in Indian occupied Kashmir valley. He also stated Doda, Bhaderwah (Chenab valley) areas full of Muslims in Jammu are even more pro Pakistan than Kashmir valley.

It is Jammu city and Udhampur and Kathua that are pro India and mainly Hindu.

Have talked to many people from Kashmir and apart from one guy who wanted to stay with India everyone else wants an independent Kashmir.. They want an independence Kashmir however if given an option between India and Pakistan they would go for Pakistan It seems..

Talking about the Kashmiri Muslims above..

 

[Wasim_Waqar]

Have talked to many people from Kashmir and apart from one guy who wanted to stay with India everyone else wants an independent Kashmir.. They want an independence Kashmir however if given an option between India and Pakistan they would go for Pakistan It seems..

Talking about the Kashmiri Muslims above..

Speaking of people from Kashmir valley, I understand that they can’t openly support Pakistan otherwise thrown in jail. Therefore people say they support “independence” when actually they really mean Pakistan.

That’s why India won’t budge on Kashmir valley- it is a matter of them not wanting to give it to Pakistan. They know people want Pakistan.

 

[miandadrules]

The conduct of the state in the atrocities committed upon the Bangladeshis was shameful and a disgrace. We as a stare shouldn’t shy away from acknowledging and apologising for it and make a commitment to never let anything like it ever happpening again.

Unfortunately, we are doubling down on our minorities.

However, there is no equivalence to those events and the situation in Azaad Kashmir. To make a such a claim is to be disingenuous and insults the victims of the Bangladesh genocide.

If there is any evidence of Kashmiri persecution in Pakistan then the least one can do is provide some evidence.

 

[miandadrules]

That said the Pakistani state doesn’t have the interests of the citizens of Indian occupied Kashmir at its forefront.

Peace in the area doesn’t serve the oligarchs on either side. So the suffering of the people is of little interests to them.

 

[Wasim_Waqar]

That said the Pakistani state doesn’t have the interests of the citizens of Indian occupied Kashmir at its forefront.

Peace in the area doesn’t serve the oligarchs on either side. So the suffering of the people is of little interests to them.

I certainly disagree with you. In AJK, we live a life of peace, happiness and dignity.

We know that Kashmir valley and Chenab valley uniting with Pakistan will allow the people of those areas to live with us in peace and dignity.

 

[miandadrules]

I certainly disagree with you. In AJK, we live a life of peace, happiness and dignity.

We know that Kashmir valley and Chenab valley uniting with Pakistan will allow the people of those areas to live with us in peace and dignity.

How does this address a single point I made?

 

[Eagle_Eye]

How does this address a single point I made?

Is your family from AJK?

 

[Syed1]

People from AJK are the most patriotic Pakistanis I have seen. So idk where this notion of them being scared of the state comes from.


The comparison with Bangladesh is false. Bengalis are a very different people and they would have never assimilated with the rest of Pakistan, while Kashmiris are almost the same as rest of Pakistan. Cultural similarity plays a huge part in unity of a country.

 

[Syed1]

^ to add to the above, I think most Kashmiris speak fluent Urdu while the same wasn't the case with East Pakistanis and they were not willing to accept Urdu as the main language.

 

[miandadrules]

Is your family from AJK?

No.

Regardless, what points does it address?

 

[www787]

Look, delusional Indian and Bangladeshi has done, they have brought out Kashmiri in support of Pakistan once again.

 

[Wasim_Waqar]

How does this address a single point I made?

Pakistan is the only reason why kashmir issue is well and truly alive. That’s why people in Kashmir valley love and want to be part of Pakistan

 

[Wasim_Waqar]

No.

Regardless, what points does it address?

See my post. Pakistani establishment does have the heart of my brothers and sisters in Kashmir valley in their thoughts...that’s every establishment even though I don’t support current government in general.

 

[indipper]

I've asked few of my classmates about their choice. They say no body cares about India or Pakistan there. They just want to be separated.

 

[miandadrules]

See my post. Pakistani establishment does have the heart of my brothers and sisters in Kashmir valley in their thoughts...that’s every establishment even though I don’t support current government in general.

May be I missing something but you haven’t made any mention of the Pakistani establishment.

 

[big_gamer007]

Speaking of people from Kashmir valley, I understand that they can’t openly support Pakistan otherwise thrown in jail. Therefore people say they support “independence” when actually they really mean Pakistan.

That’s why India won’t budge on Kashmir valley- it is a matter of them not wanting to give it to Pakistan. They know people want Pakistan.

Maybe the strangers I talked to in my travel were scared to say they wanted to join Pakistan however the friends and colleagues would have said they want to join with Pakistan if hey wanted it more than independence.. I mean they clearly said they don’t consider themselves Indians and don’t want anything to do with India so I don’t think they would have been scared or shy to say if they want to join Pakistan..

Either ways nothing is gonna happen so might as well accept and live life peacefully.. Would be better for rest of us as well and the entire sub continent if you think about it logically...

 

[miandadrules]

Pakistan is the only reason why kashmir issue is well and truly alive. That’s why people in Kashmir valley love and want to be part of Pakistan

That doesn’t show that the Pakistani establishment is altruistic towards Kashmir.

It serves their interests to drag India in to a quagmire and drain its resources and vice versa.

There are idealogical reasons too, which stem from the creation of the two states, the diverging ideologies which form the basis of the one state vs two state theory. The succession of Bangladesh is seen as proof that a two state theory which formed the basis of Pakistan as a safe haven for Muslims was flawed. On the other hand incidents such as the Gujarat riots and the Kashmir issue highlight the flaw of the one state theory, where Muslims are persecuted.

Neither country can afford all out war which drains their limited resources but both need their citizens to perceive the other nation as the enemy. This is why we have an escalation of tensions twice a decade. It’s a device which shifts eyes from domestic issues and also justifies exorbitant military spending.

Of course Pakistan would accept Kashmir as it increases its territory. That doesn’t equate to having the interests of the people at heart.

If it was to happen, then both nations would have to open up a new front and subject more innocent people to their bloody game of chess.

 

[miandadrules]

Pakistan is the only reason why kashmir issue is well and truly alive. That’s why people in Kashmir valley love and want to be part of Pakistan

You didn’t mention any of that in your original post, which had no correlation to my post.

 

[miandadrules]

Maybe the strangers I talked to in my travel were scared to say they wanted to join Pakistan however the friends and colleagues would have said they want to join with Pakistan if hey wanted it more than independence.. I mean they clearly said they don’t consider themselves Indians and don’t want anything to do with India so I don’t think they would have been scared or shy to say if they want to join Pakistan..

Either ways nothing is gonna happen so might as well accept and live life peacefully.. Would be better for rest of us as well and the entire sub continent if you think about it logically...

One thing that will definitely happen is that innocent people will suffer. Maybe that’s something that all that are jingoistically chest thumping should ponder for a split second.

What steps have been taken to resolve the issue with best interests of the people of the region at the forefront?

 

[big_gamer007]

One thing that will definitely happen is that innocent people will suffer. Maybe that’s something that all that are jingoistically chest thumping should ponder for a split second.

What steps have been taken to resolve the issue with best interests of the people of the region at the forefront?

No one gives two hoots about resolving the issue my friend.. it’s easy to divide people and garner support over issues such as Kashmir amongst others..

However it is difficult to actually do work and improve the standard of living for your citizens.. Look at life in west and then look at life in sub continent.. Who is to blame? Ultimately it’s the people the leader do not do their job and get away with mediocrity because people have accepted that and are corrupt themselves.. In addition to that the mindset of people is just way too backwards..

Kashmir issue will continue for next 100 years, India may become a military superpower however the standard of living will be crap for majority compared to the west.. Pakistan on other hand will also remain the way they are..

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

How does this address a single point I made?

Your points seemed to be more aimed at deflecting towards Bangladesh and East Pakistan rather than Kashmir. Considering the massive disparity in culture and distance between the two, I don't think the two states can be compared.

 

[KingKhanWC]

It seems the posters from Azad Kashmir do not support the belief of a Bangladeshi poster who claimed they do not protest against Pakistan due to fear of what occurred in Bangladesh. [MENTION=146517]Traveller55[/MENTION]

 

[Wasim_Waqar]

It seems the posters from Azad Kashmir do not support the belief of a Bangladeshi poster who claimed they do not protest against Pakistan due to fear of what occurred in Bangladesh. [MENTION=146517]Traveller55[/MENTION]

I was shocked to see the OP of the thread lol...glad to see it has been out to bed.

There’s a reason why kashmir valley wants to be part of Pakistan. With social media and video phones, I communicate with people from kashmir valley...and I have learned more that way than just google!!!

 

[Wasim_Waqar]

You didn’t mention any of that in your original post, which had no correlation to my post.

I hope my series of posts helped...

 

[KingKhanWC]

I was shocked to see the OP of the thread lol...glad to see it has been out to bed.

There’s a reason why kashmir valley wants to be part of Pakistan. With social media and video phones, I communicate with people from kashmir valley...and I have learned more that way than just google!!!

The poster isnt willing to back up his absurd claims, no surprise.

But just to add.

Have you EVER heard any person from Kashmir even mention Bangladesh, comparing it to their land/life?

 

[Pakistanian]

^ to add to the above, I think most Kashmiris speak fluent Urdu while the same wasn't the case with East Pakistanis and they were not willing to accept Urdu as the main language.

Yeah Urdu is the official language of indian occupied Kashmir lol.

 

[Wasim_Waqar]

The poster isnt willing to back up his absurd claims, no surprise.

But just to add.

Have you EVER heard any person from Kashmir even mention Bangladesh, comparing it to their land/life?

I don’t think so....

Kashmir valley has a lot more in common with Pakistan. It’s all like one country anyway minus the Indian troops and occupation...people, language, culture, religion, the love of Pakistan is higher in the valley than anywhere else. Kashmir valley is quite simply an amazing place- beautiful and full of people bleeding Pakistani colours!

 

[Pakistanian]

Once kashmir becomes free then all the problems in south Asia would be resolved. If India wants south asia to have peace and prosper then it needs to take the bullet and give Kashmir independence.

 

[Azzurri]

Why do Indians always e do up saying that kashmir issue will stay like this forever? I mean the amount if nationalism in my Indian friends is alarming high. Which makes them kind and unhumanic

 

[English August]

My journo friend from Srinagar states the people of Kashmir valley’s pro-Pakistan sentiment is purposefully suppressed. Therefore people can’t be open about wanting union with Pakistan eg they are thrown into jails.

It’s only a matter of time until Pakistan has kashmir valley. The pro-independence sentiment is a creation of the Indian state to deliberately weaken the pro-Pakistani sentiment of wanting union of Kashmir valley with Pakistan.

Ask [MENTION=131678]Madplayer[/MENTION] for his opinion. He’s from Srinagar.

Matter of time, eh? How many weeks / months / years did you have in mind?

 

[English August]

Why do Indians always e do up saying that kashmir issue will stay like this forever? I mean the amount if nationalism in my Indian friends is alarming high. Which makes them kind and unhumanic

Why should Indians have any sympathy for the Kashmiri terrorists? If Indian Kashmir is such a terrible place and POK is the land of milk and honey as many of you claim to be, those who want to part of Pakistan are more than welcome to move there and settle down. I don't think anyone in India would mind. And Pakistanis, who claim to have so much sympathy for Kashmiris, surely you can provide land and housing for 50 Lakh Kashmiris? Or is it all talk no action?

 

[Rishikesh]

Once kashmir becomes free then all the problems in south Asia would be resolved. If India wants south asia to have peace and prosper then it needs to take the bullet and give Kashmir independence.

According to some posters above kashmiris of both sides will choose pakistan if referendum happens. So I don't know why Pakistan is not interested in implementing first step of UN resolution which will allow both sides to solve the issue without taking any bullets.

 

[Pakistanian]

According to some posters above kashmiris of both sides will choose pakistan if referendum happens. So I don't know why Pakistan is not interested in implementing first step of UN resolution which will allow both sides to solve the issue without taking any bullets.

Cause the indian military would just invade ajk and gilgit and annex it. We can't trust a country with a deceitful and colonial past.

 

[Pakistanian]

Why should Indians have any sympathy for the Kashmiri terrorists? If Indian Kashmir is such a terrible place and POK is the land of milk and honey as many of you claim to be, those who want to part of Pakistan are more than welcome to move there and settle down. I don't think anyone in India would mind. And Pakistanis, who claim to have so much sympathy for Kashmiris, surely you can provide land and housing for 50 Lakh Kashmiris? Or is it all talk no action?

Why should the native people of Kashmir leave their homeland?!? That's settler colonialism and a form of genocide. If india is a democracy then they should let them hold a referendum like how Britain let Scotland vote on their future.

 

[Rishikesh]

Cause the indian military would just invade ajk and gilgit and annex it. We can't trust a country with a deceitful and colonial past.

First of all I don't think india make such a stupid move to go against UN. Pakistan can seek the help of UN peace keeping force to take care of security needs.

 

[JaDed]

^ to add to the above, I think most Kashmiris speak fluent Urdu while the same wasn't the case with East Pakistanis and they were not willing to accept Urdu as the main language.

Why would they have to give up their language?

 

[JaDed]

Why do Indians always e do up saying that kashmir issue will stay like this forever? I mean the amount if nationalism in my Indian friends is alarming high. Which makes them kind and unhumanic

One can say the same about religion, and also when many say Kashmir Issue I'm assuming they mean the borders,hopefully the AFSPA will be removed.

 

[Wasim_Waqar]

Once kashmir becomes free then all the problems in south Asia would be resolved. If India wants south asia to have peace and prosper then it needs to take the bullet and give Kashmir independence.

Have you read anything I’ve written brother...Pakistan would win 90 percent of votes in referendum.

 

[Wasim_Waqar]

The Indian constitution says that they must take GB and AJK. Therefore India has to agree to the referendum first before Pakistan vacates. Otherwise India will fulfill its constitution and walk into AJK and GB.

If tomorrow India agrees to a referendum under UN watch, and then Pakistan doesn’t vacate...then the fault is pakistan’s..but at present it is India obstructing a solution.

India knows a referendum will lead to defeat in Kashmir valley which is effectively what both sides are fighting to have.

 

[Wasim_Waqar]

There are I think 7 million people in Kashmir valley. Not right to ask them to move. Best for a referendum.

 

[Wasim_Waqar]

Matter of time, eh? How many weeks / months / years did you have in mind?

However long it takes. Kashmiris will not give up. Secondly as long as the Indian occupation continues, you will not be able to fulfill your potential on world forums

 

[OneTip-OneHand]

The Indian constitution says that they must take GB and AJK. Therefore India has to agree to the referendum first before Pakistan vacates. Otherwise India will fulfill its constitution and walk into AJK and GB.

If tomorrow India agrees to a referendum under UN watch, and then Pakistan doesn’t vacate...then the fault is pakistan’s..but at present it is India obstructing a solution.

India knows a referendum will lead to defeat in Kashmir valley which is effectively what both sides are fighting to have.

Have you even read the UN resolution of 1948? I suggest you should do that instead of posting fantasy stories.

 

[OneTip-OneHand]

Primary factors –

Refer to the highlighted parts in the draft of UN resolution which show that -

The UN resolution of 1948 applies to the full “State of Jammu & Kashmir”. As shown in the map below, this includes Gilgit-Baltistan, AZK, Shaksgam Valley, Jammu, Ladakh and Kashmir valley – not just Kashmir (in red area)
For UN plebiscite to be conducted, the first condition is that Government of Pakistan should withdraw it’s forces and non-residents from the area
When the above has been established, then Government of India needs to reduce forces to the minimum strength, as required to maintain law & order.

The first step to be taken by Pakistan has never been done.

 

[chacha kashmiri]

What security forces in Azad Kashmir

Has this joey ever bin there?

 

[OneTip-OneHand]

What security forces in Azad Kashmir

Has this joey ever bin there?

Now don’t tell POK doesn’t have any of Pakistani armed forces in the area. Lol

 

[chacha kashmiri]

Now don’t tell POK doesn’t have any of Pakistani armed forces in the area. Lol

The only time i ever a fauji was in a money transfer shop

The security forces must all be in bagh or muzzafrabad

 

[Eagle_Eye]

Now don’t tell POK doesn’t have any of Pakistani armed forces in the area. Lol

Common sense is in short supply it seems these days... ofcourse Pakistan army is there.... to stop Indians from invading!!

People from AJK are heavily over represented in Pakistan army.... you know the general who played a huge part in musharraf taking over after his plane was being diverted by NS... take a guess where he hails from?

Raheel sharif ancestral village is a stone throw from AJK, you do t think he has relatives in AJK?

It's hilarious how some Indians are just blind to reality and peddle fiction in the hope that if they repeat it often enough, it will somehow believed to be true.

 

[OneTip-OneHand]

Common sense is in short supply it seems these days... ofcourse Pakistan army is there.... to stop Indians from invading!!

People from AJK are heavily over represented in Pakistan army.... you know the general who played a huge part in musharraf taking over after his plane was being diverted by NS... take a guess where he hails from?

Raheel sharif ancestral village is a stone throw from AJK, you do t think he has relatives in AJK?

It's hilarious how some Indians are just blind to reality and peddle fiction in the hope that if they repeat it often enough, it will somehow believed to be true.

If you had applied a bit of brain before writing an essay , my post was in reply to the poster above who asked- ‘what security forces’

It’s hilarious how some Pakistanis are just blind to the UN resolution of 1948 and peddle fiction in the hope that if they repeat it ofter enough, it will some somehow believed to be true. Or may be they are relying of Daddy China for vetoing in favour of them all the time.

 

[big_gamer007]

Why do Indians always e do up saying that kashmir issue will stay like this forever? I mean the amount if nationalism in my Indian friends is alarming high. Which makes them kind and unhumanic

It’s not nationalism it’s common sense and reality... You need to understand the ground realities of sub continent and mindset of people to know things will stay the same.. Maybe after we are dead it can change but not in next 50 years atleast.

 

[Wasim_Waqar]

Have you even read the UN resolution of 1948? I suggest you should do that instead of posting fantasy stories.

You’re classless just like someone about to be defeated. I know it inside out. India needs to agree to a referendum after asking UN to intervene on Jammu and Kashmir. You don’t even call it a dispute...so how can Pakistan pull troops out? India will otherwise invade.

 

[OneTip-OneHand]

You’re classless just like someone about to be defeated. I know it inside out. India needs to agree to a referendum after asking UN to intervene on Jammu and Kashmir. You don’t even call it a dispute...so how can Pakistan pull troops out? India will otherwise invade.

Ok. So you haven’t read it. I get it.

By the way insulting words don’t hide your lack of knowledge

 

[Hornbill]

Pakistani military deployment on the LoC is thin compared to the Indian deployment along the counterpart sectors. The Pakistani side has not erected border fences, has stationed fewer troops, constructed fewer posts, and carries out very little patrolling along the zero line.

http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/op-ed/behind-the-enemy-line/article22360673.ece

This is reported by a journalist who visited both side of LOC, Guess what even the Pakistani army is sure about.

 

[English August]

Why should the native people of Kashmir leave their homeland?!? That's settler colonialism and a form of genocide. If india is a democracy then they should let them hold a referendum like how Britain let Scotland vote on their future.

Democracy doesn't mean every little group can have their own country. Wishes of 50L people are nothing compared to the wishes of 125 crore people.

How about you let Balochis have their own homeland and Sindhis have their own homeland before you lecture India? When Banglas wanted their own homeland you massacred them and raped the women instead of giving them their freedom. India had to intervene and set them free.

As per the instrument of accession, Kashmir is an integral part of India. If a few people don't like it, they can go wherever they want.

It's clear that Pakistan is only paying lip service to the so called "kashmiri cause" and is not willing to welcome the 50L people who are apparently super excited to become Pakistanis!!!

If Kashmiris were so keen on Pakistan, I'd be seeing a long queue trying to leave India to join Pak! Where is it? Any pictures or youtube videos?

 

[English August]

There are I think 7 million people in Kashmir valley. Not right to ask them to move. Best for a referendum.

I think the number is closer to 5 million. Even if there were 7M, the logic won't change. First of all, not everyone wants to become a Pakistani. Those who want, can move. What's the point in waiting endlessly when there is a land of honey and milk waiting for them on the other side of the border? It's been 70 years. How long should they wait?!

Looks like you made the right choice and moved to Birmingham and are happily enjoying the life in a first world country. But you want your Kashmiri brothers to rot in a third world Indian hell?!

Why don't you make the first move and ask five (only five) Kashmiris to come and live with you?

If every Pakistani who claims to be supporter of the Kashmir problem did that, the long suffering Kashmiris would be set free overnight.

 

[UN talkz]

I think the number is closer to 5 million. Even if there were 7M, the logic won't change. First of all, not everyone wants to become a Pakistani. Those who want, can move. What's the point in waiting endlessly when there is a land of honey and milk waiting for them on the other side of the border? It's been 70 years. How long should they wait?!

Looks like you made the right choice and moved to Birmingham and are happily enjoying the life in a first world country. But you want your Kashmiri brothers to rot in a third world Indian hell?!

Why don't you make the first move and ask five (only five) Kashmiris to come and live with you?

If every Pakistani who claims to be supporter of the Kashmir problem did that, the long suffering Kashmiris would be set free overnight.

POTW
Thanks for showing concern for Kashmiris

 

[UN talkz]

[MENTION=5404]Wasim_Waqar[/MENTION]
Boy u have been receiving some terrible news and stories from your THAT Srinagar based journalist friend.
I had a very very long debate with you in other Kashmiri based thread but u are still saying same thing... Bro there is a huge difference bw how u are trying to represent emotions of Kashmiris and what they actually are here in Kashmir.
7 million Kashmiri are demanding Independence and not Pakistan... Offcourse Kashmiris support Pakistani cricket national team and love Pakistani ppl and Politicians like IK but bro there is no desperation to join Pakistan, a few among those 7 million people want to be a part of Pakistan and there is no one doubting that but those people dont account more than 5-6%...
A lot has changed since 90's and its better that u accept it

 

[Wasim_Waqar]

[MENTION=5404]Wasim_Waqar[/MENTION]
Boy u have been receiving some terrible news and stories from your THAT Srinagar based journalist friend.
I had a very very long debate with you in other Kashmiri based thread but u are still saying same thing... Bro there is a huge difference bw how u are trying to represent emotions of Kashmiris and what they actually are here in Kashmir.
7 million Kashmiri are demanding Independence and not Pakistan... Offcourse Kashmiris support Pakistani cricket national team and love Pakistani ppl and Politicians like IK but bro there is no desperation to join Pakistan, a few among those 7 million people want to be a part of Pakistan and there is no one doubting that but those people dont account more than 5-6%...
A lot has changed since 90's and its better that u accept it

...can’t be bothered debating with people that consistently trying to undermine the Kashmiri movement for right ofnself determination.

Ps referendum contains 2 options

 

[indipper]

Just look at the number of facilities in Indian part of Kashmir vs the Pakistani one. Why would anybody want to go at the worse side.

 

[Eagle_Eye]

Just look at the number of facilities in Indian part of Kashmir vs the Pakistani one. Why would anybody want to go at the worse side.

Definitely more detention facilities .....

 

[Wasim_Waqar]

Definitely more detention facilities .....

100,000 plus killed since 1989
Jammu massacre 1948
AFSPA
MASS GRAVES
Rapes eg Kunan Poshpora, Asiya and Neelofar Jan in Shopian
Pellet injuries and blinding eg Insha
Wamiq Farooq, Tufail Mattoo murders amongst many more....

We will never surrender. The biggest issue we have is the media blackout and the lack of world knowledge including in India about Kashmir.

Israel and India as bad as each other.

 

[Napa]

It’s only a matter of time until Pakistan has kashmir valley.

1. No Indian government will ever let Kashmir go for the simple reason that the sentiment in the rest of the country is strongly against that happening. As Kashmiris are only about 10 million out of a total population of 1,300+ million, the impact of the Kashmiris opinions on the government is marginal.

2. So Kashmir will separate from India only if the Indian state collapses, and there are no signs of that happening in the foreseeable future.

 

[barah_admi]

Most Kashmiris in the UK call themselves Pakistani and want Kashmir to be a part of Pakistan. Should tell you something.

 

[raju420]

Speaking of people from Kashmir valley, I understand that they can’t openly support Pakistan otherwise thrown in jail. Therefore people say they support “independence” when actually they really mean Pakistan.

That’s why India won’t budge on Kashmir valley- it is a matter of them not wanting to give it to Pakistan. They know people want Pakistan.

Kashmiris live only in Kashmir valley (90 x 40 km) area and they speak Kashmiri language.

Rest of J & K is
Jammu which is Hindu majority and speak Dogri
Ladakh which is Budhist majority and their have their own language.
Chitral and Gilgit again have their own culture with Shias being majority

I think J & K should be divided into 2 states of Ladakh and Jammu while Kashmir valley should become a union territory so that it is fair to Jammu and Ladakh. Currently Kashmir valley people are over spending while Hindus and Buddhists are lagging development.