Are Ravindra Jadeja and Shakib Al Hasan Tests ATGs?

[Babbar]

These days it’s more difficult for English, Aus, or Indian players to be in top 10, much less ATG in stats. They play against much tougher opposition, frequently against each other. Many of these top players drop out when their team has to play a lower ranked opposition. It makes sense as a top player will like to prove himself against a worthy competitor. Why will Kohli, Root or Kane go to SL or Bangladesh?

This is different from Bangladesh, Afghanistan or Pakistan, where top players are always playing in series after series against weak opposition or team B/C/D of top teams. They can rack up stats.

 

[Executioner]

These days it’s more difficult for English, Aus, or Indian players to be in top 10, much less ATG in stats. They play against much tougher opposition, frequently against each other. Many of these top players drop out when their team has to play a lower ranked opposition. It makes sense as a top player will like to prove himself against a worthy competitor. Why will Kohli, Root or Kane go to SL or Bangladesh?

This is different from Bangladesh, Afghanistan or Pakistan, where top players are always playing in series after series against weak opposition or team B/C/D of top teams. They can rack up stats.

I'd suggest that you look up Shakib's performance in SENA countries.

 

[Executioner]

TEST BATTING AVERAGES IN SENA:
1. Shakib al Hasan 41.00
2. Shadab Khan 37.33
3. Ravindra Jadeja 31.09

TEST BOWLING AVERAGES IN SENA:
1. Shakib al Hasan 30.44
2. Shadab Khan 31.07
3. Ravindra Jadeja 36.54

So it looks like Jadeja is coming third in a two-horse race.

And it highlights again that Pakistanis are crazy not to see the quality of the spin bowling all-rounder that they have under their noses.

A fellow forum member has already done that.

A 41 average with bat and 30 average with ball in those conditions

 

[OMB]

Ravindra Jadeja Only Second Indian to Pick 450 wickets and Score 4500 runs

Ravindra Jadeja was amongst the wickets after 5 innings in a Test match. Ravindra Jadeja was amongst the wickets after 5 innings in a Test match.

Star all-rounder Ravindra Jadeja has become only the second Indian player to have taken 450 wickets and scored over 4500 runs in international cricket. Before Jadeja, only former India captain Kapil Dev achieved the double. Jadeja achieved the feat after he picked a couple of wickets in the first innings against England.

Ravindra Jadeja accounted for the wickets of Haseeb Hameed and Moeen Ali. He has now taken 450 wickets in 273 matches of his overall international career. He has taken 5 wickets on 10 occasions. His best performance in Test cricket is 7 wickets for 48 runs.

At the same time, Jadeja has also scored 4716 runs at an average of 32 with a century that came in Test cricket. As far as Kapil Dev is concerned, he took 687 wickets in 356 matches and scored 9031 runs. The former Indian captain has also scored 9 centuries and has taken 5 wickets on 24 occasions.

In 168 ODIs, Jadeja has taken 188 wickets at an average of 37 and his best performance in a match is 5 wickets for 36 runs. In the shortest format, he has taken 39 wickets in 50 matches and his best figures read 3 wickets for 48 runs.

Ravindra Jadeja was amongst the wickets after 5 innings in a Test match. He has been in good form with the bat and scored a 50 in the first innings of the first Test at Nottingham. He also scored a valuable 40 runs in the first innings of the second Test played at Lord’s.

https://www.news18.com/cricketnext/news/ravindra-jadeja-only-second-indian-to-pick-450-wickets-and-score-4500-runs-4137023.html

 

[Ab Fan]

All hail Sir Jadeja!

 

[Ab Fan]

<B>Ravindra Jadeja :

Age 34</B>

Bat AVG 36
Runs 2523, 3 100s

Bowl AVG 24
Wickets 247, 11 5-fers

1. Averages 42 with bat and 21 with bowl in Australia

2. Averages 25 with bowl in South Africa with a 5-fer.

3. Smashed a wonderful hundred in England in test decider.

4. Smashed a wonderful 175 vs Sri Lanka last year.

Expect more to come in this series with both bat and bowl.

 

[dravidthewall]

<B>Ravindra Jadeja :

Age 34</B>

Bat AVG 36
Runs 2523, 3 100s

Bowl AVG 24
Wickets 247, 11 5-fers

1. Averages 42 with bat and 21 with bowl in Australia

2. Averages 25 with bowl in South Africa with a 5-fer.

3. Smashed a wonderful hundred in England in test decider.

4. Smashed a wonderful 175 vs Sri Lanka last year.

Expect more to come in this series with both bat and bowl.

ATG allrounder along with ben stokes.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Jadeja the T20 player is different from Test. In Tests he is at the best of his batting powers. Sadly picked up injury. Not sure how he will bat from here on.

 

[Ab Fan]

ATG allrounder along with ben stokes.

Ben Stokes
Ravindra Jadeja
Shakib Al Hasan

These three are elite level test A/R.

 

[kumjsr]

Ben Stokes
Ravindra Jadeja
Shakib Al Hasan

These three are elite level test A/R.

Ben Stokes would hardly get into side with bowling alone. He is primarily a batsman and a support bowler.
Even with batting Stokes is more of a clutch batsman than reliable one, which means while his success is celebrated a lot, his failures hardly raise a question.

Jadeja will get into this Indian side with his batting alone.

 

[Haque]

None of them are test ATGs. Shakib is an ATG all formats combined. However I will have Jaddu in my team over Shakib in tests.

Only four bowlers (Herath, Muralithran, Steyn, & Shakib.) have fifers against 9 Test playing countries. Only Shakib is still playing. Hopefully he will play against Ireland in the upcoming Test. If he can take 5 wickets in any innings, he will be the only player who will have fifers against 10 Test playing countries , a world record that will be hard to break. In future he will also have a chance to increase it to 11, if he can manage another fifer against Afghanistan.

Also please read the following:

https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/...-greater-allrounder-than-garry-sobers-1257937

 

[Hitman]

Jadeja, truly our MVP in Test cricket.

 

[Ab Fan]

One need an eye to understand the best talent that's coming out from the game.

You look at this thread. It was created back in 2019 and it was a time when most deluded Indian fans were hyping Pandya as the next Kapil Dev but calling out Jadeja as average A/R.

However, this thread was created by a genius who saw how Jadeja is improving himself as a cricketer and has really come a long way. In the next two years, you can see that Jadeja has been averaging something like 50 with bat and his overall stats are there to be seen. A great talent can be spotted by just watching enough glimpses of it, not necessarily looking at only stats. Furthermore, you already know how I got it so spot on in case of Gill and Pant after the Adelaide Test.

To conclude, two really masterclass predictions and you can expect more to come with time.

Revisiting the golden words once again.

The thread has come a long way and the debate has intensified only - Jadeja is making a strong case to be considered an ATG test cricketer. This tag wasn't used loosely as certain folks thought because when it is used by me, it means business, serious business.

 

[Ab Fan]

Stats as of 19-02-2023:-

Ravindra Jadeja :

Runs - 2619, AVG 36.9
Wickets - 259, AVG 23.8

 

[ElRaja]

first anderson, now this thread, i keep getting proven right on the players i back, i said exactly the same four years ago and will say it again, this guy is an ATG all rounder level in asian conditions. 40 batting average, 20 bowling average, and absolute gun fielder.

test in asia, imran khan, ravi jadeja is where the conversation on all rounders in an atg xi starts and ends. india should enjoy his peak, once him and ravi ashwin are gone they'll be a massive hole in the test side.

 

[Hitman]

I won't get into this ATG stuff, but Jadeja is truly a top class Test all rounder by all means. Add to that, definitely an Indian great.

 

[WengerOut]

Jadeja is the MVP of this Indian test team

 

[Fanboy375]

A fellow forum member has already done that.

A 41 average with bat and 30 average with ball in those conditions

He has 12 and 27 ave in bat and ball respectively in Aus,SA and Eng.He bat well in NZ (74) and ball bad there (40)

 

[Ab Fan]

Jadeja has surpassed Shakib in my opinion.

300+ wickets at avg of 24 and 3000+ runs at avg of 35.

 

[RidiculousMan]

Jadeja has surpassed Shakib in my opinion.

300+ wickets at avg of 24 and 3000+ runs at avg of 35.

Yep. Not a huge difference but Jadeja the bowler is better in Test than him

 

[Fanboy375]

Jadeja has surpassed Shakib in my opinion.

300+ wickets at avg of 24 and 3000+ runs at avg of 35.

What about Ben Strokes?If we count non minnow records (Afg and Zim out)

 

[Ab Fan]

What about Ben Strokes?If we count non minnow records (Afg and Zim out)

All formats combined, you can say he is the best in this generation but in Tests only, it is Jadeja.

ATG? Hard to say for either.

 

[Ab Fan]

Let’s compare Jadeja vs Shakib vs Stokes at this point of their career. Since the start of this thread, Jadeja has gone upward while Shakib has gone downhill. Stokes had its ups and downs.

 

[pratiktc]

Both Jadeja and Shakib are undoubtedly ATGs.
The kind of workload Shakib took on with bat and ball in first half of his career is remarkable.

And the evolution of Jadeja as a high class allrounder over last 6-7 years has also been brilliant to watch.

 

[TexasRattlesnake]

Jadeja will get his bowling below 25 in the home leg. Can he get his batting above 40?

Will require England 2024 style pitches though.

I think he retires with the 2027 Aus home series or the 2027 WTC final if India get there.

No player in human history has had batting average above 40 and bowling below 30. Sundar is there but super small sample size.

 

[Ab Fan]

Jadeja will get his bowling below 25 in the home leg. Can he get his batting above 40?

Will require England 2024 style pitches though.

I think he retires with the 2027 Aus home series or the 2027 WTC final if India get there.

No player in human history has had batting average above 40 and bowling below 30. Sundar is there but super small sample size.

There was one spinner- Aubrey Faulkner. Very close

 

[TexasRattlesnake]

There was one spinner- Aubrey Faulkner. Very close

Not close. He satisfies it. But again just 25 matches.

 

[Rajdeep]

Both are not ATGs. I think people throw that term very losely these days. ATG tags should only be reserved for cream of the crops and neither player fits that definition. Shakib was a big fish in a small pond and hence Bangladeshi legend. Jadeja will go down as impactful all rounder for India.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Both are not ATGs. I think people throw that term very losely these days. ATG tags should only be reserved for cream of the crops and neither player fits that definition. Shakib was a big fish in a small pond and hence Bangladeshi legend. Jadeja will go down as impactful all rounder for India.

Has there been a better spin bowling AR than Jadeja? He is the cream of the crop in this ( admittedly niche) category.

 

[AZulfi]

Jadeja is a genuine Test bowling all-rounder on Indian pitches.

However, in SENA countries, he's more of a batting all-rounder. I read somewhere that his Test batting average is 40.25 in SENA countries since 2018, placing him third among Indian batters in those conditions after Shubman Gill and Rishabh Pant.

His bowling is less effective in SENA: 57 wickets in 25 tests @ 40.80

 

[Ab Fan]

Both are not ATGs. I think people throw that term very losely these days. ATG tags should only be reserved for cream of the crops and neither player fits that definition. Shakib was a big fish in a small pond and hence Bangladeshi legend. Jadeja will go down as impactful all rounder for India.

Think of it why not?

At one point, WI had 4 ATGs bowling in the team- Marshall, Holding, Garner, Roberts.

Then there were 4 ATG all rounders in 80s.

Then in 90s, you had 7 ATG bowlers across the world - McGrath, Wasim, Donald, Ambrose, Waqar, Pollock, Walsh.

No reason why there should not be more than only 2-3 players from any era to be considered one.

 

[light]

Shakib is an ATG and will retire (or did he already retire?) as one considering his performance in all format and carrying his country solo on his shoulder for however long he played. Jadeja is not an ATG - his test stats looks great but other than that, he was a bits and pieces player who could field for a very long time.

 

[Ab Fan]

Jadeja is a genuine Test bowling all-rounder on Indian pitches.

However, in SENA countries, he's more of a batting all-rounder. I read somewhere that his Test batting average is 40.25 in SENA countries since 2018, placing him third among Indian batters in those conditions after Shubman Gill and Rishabh Pant.

His bowling is less effective in SENA: 57 wickets in 25 tests @ 40.80

Since 2018, he averages 42 with bat in SENA countries with bat.

 

[sweep_shot]

Shakib is only a Bangladeshi ATG. Not a worldwide ATG.

Same with Jadeja (an Indian ATG; not a worldwide ATG).

Shakib is a better batter than Jadeja while Jadeja is a better bowler than Shakib.

 

[BouncerGuy]

ATGs in their countries for sure...

 

[TexasRattlesnake]

Jadeja is a genuine Test bowling all-rounder on Indian pitches.

However, in SENA countries, he's more of a batting all-rounder. I read somewhere that his Test batting average is 40.25 in SENA countries since 2018, placing him third among Indian batters in those conditions after Shubman Gill and Rishabh Pant.

His bowling is less effective in SENA: 57 wickets in 25 tests @ 40.80

Jadeja is not just an all rounder on Asian/WI pitches, he is a bonafide ATG bowler and a good batsman.

He has the lowest bowling average on Asian/WI pitches of any spinner EVER, including Muralitharan (Ashwin 2nd best).




He has a batting average of 38 in those countries (and Ashwin 28) so they are basically cheat codes. ATG bowlers in those countries who can bat.

That is why the ridiculous W/L numbers in those countries after his debut. More than 5 times better than the next best.



In SENA he becomes a good batting AR with a batting average of 36.81 and a bowling average of 42.23. Basically lower order batter who can bowl a few overs.

Definite ATG all rounder.

 

[Vikram1989]

Definite ATG all rounder.

U r salman with brains .unique combo

 

[Ab Fan]

Jadeja is not just an all rounder on Asian/WI pitches, he is a bonafide ATG bowler and a good batsman.

He has the lowest bowling average on Asian/WI pitches of any spinner EVER, including Muralitharan (Ashwin 2nd best).

View attachment 157276


He has a batting average of 38 in those countries (and Ashwin 28) so they are basically cheat codes. ATG bowlers in those countries who can bat.

That is why the ridiculous W/L numbers in those countries after his debut. More than 5 times better than the next best.

View attachment 157277

In SENA he becomes a good batting AR with a batting average of 36.81 and a bowling average of 42.23. Basically lower order batter who can bowl a few overs.

Definite ATG all rounder.

All hail Jadeja! Finally I have found my partner for brothers of destruction! We will destroy these little GenZ over here

 

[Ab Fan]

Jadeja is not just an all rounder on Asian/WI pitches, he is a bonafide ATG bowler and a good batsman.

He has the lowest bowling average on Asian/WI pitches of any spinner EVER, including Muralitharan (Ashwin 2nd best).

View attachment 157276


He has a batting average of 38 in those countries (and Ashwin 28) so they are basically cheat codes. ATG bowlers in those countries who can bat.

That is why the ridiculous W/L numbers in those countries after his debut. More than 5 times better than the next best.

View attachment 157277

In SENA he becomes a good batting AR with a batting average of 36.81 and a bowling average of 42.23. Basically lower order batter who can bowl a few overs.

Definite ATG all rounder.

Also , look at last 10 years performance in SENA for all Asian batsman, Jadeja is on top as pure batsman itself.

 

[BouncerGuy]

NOBODY WANTS TO SEE YOUR PERSONAL STUFF HERE...

PLEASE STAY ON TOPIC

 

[mominsaigol]

Also , look at last 10 years performance in SENA for all Asian batsman, Jadeja is on top as pure batsman itself.

View attachment 157293

He got lucky batting on roads. Now where is my submission? For those SS I sent?

 

[Ab Fan]

He got lucky batting on roads. Now where is my submission? For those SS I sent?

Same roads where everyone struggled with bat and averaging in 30s, lol?

 

[mominsaigol]

Same roads where everyone struggled with bat and averaging in 30s, lol?

You lied, you must admit to the truth.

 

[Devadwal]

Lol Shakib is nowhere near jadeja

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

Also , look at last 10 years performance in SENA for all Asian batsman, Jadeja is on top as pure batsman itself.

View attachment 157293

Damn! This is amazing!

 

[Varun]

He got lucky batting on roads. Now where is my submission? For those SS I sent?

Your posts give away the fact that you have been following cricket only since 2018, with ChatGPT being used

 

[Golu-m]

Same roads where everyone struggled with bat and averaging in 30s, lol?

you conquered many here, invincible legend

 

[BouncerGuy]

TALK ABOUT JADEJA AND SHAKIB HERE

 

[nish_mate]

Any half decent BDallrounder would be an ATG for them, such is the paucity of tailunt...Shakibs a goat for them.

 

[Ab Fan]

If Jadeja goes on to play two more years and contribute in winning the WTC Final in 2027, he will comfortably go past Kohli and Ashwin.

India has good chance of qualifying in WTC 2027 final if they regain their home dominance which they lost 10 months ago.

 

[Slim]

No.

 

[mominsaigol]

If Jadeja goes on to play two more years and contribute in winning the WTC Final in 2027, he will comfortably go past Kohli and Ashwin.

India has good chance of qualifying in WTC 2027 final if they regain their home dominance which they lost 10 months ago.

Let jadeja go. Remember your name. You are an Ab fan.

 

[TexasRattlesnake]

No.

Yes.

 

[TexasRattlesnake]

If Jadeja goes on to play two more years and contribute in winning the WTC Final in 2027, he will comfortably go past Kohli and Ashwin.

India has good chance of qualifying in WTC 2027 final if they regain their home dominance which they lost 10 months ago.

India will qualify now that Ro-Ko is gone.

 

[Varun]

Jadeja takes the crown for most improved Indian player over the course of an entire career.

Anybody remember the 2009 World T20?

 

[nish_mate]

Jadeja takes the crown for most improved Indian player over the course of an entire career.

Anybody remember the 2009 World T20?

I was there

 

[jnaveen1980]

Shakib played for a rubbish team. ALso he had lesser opportunities being from a minnow team. Can't fault him. ATG is a big stretch. But he did the best he could do given the limited opportunities he got. 17 year test career 71 tests. That is about just over 4 tests per year. 2007-2024. Joe Root made test debut 5 years after Shakib did. He has already played 158 tests. That is staggering 12 tests per year. This was not supposed to be this way as Bangladesh was expected to make consistent progress. THey never did.

 

[Ab Fan]

Shakib played for a rubbish team. ALso he had lesser opportunities being from a minnow team. Can't fault him. ATG is a big stretch. But he did the best he could do given the limited opportunities he got. 17 year test career 71 tests. That is about just over 4 tests per year. 2007-2024. Joe Root made test debut 5 years after Shakib did. He has already played 158 tests. That is staggering 12 tests per year. This was not supposed to be this way as Bangladesh was expected to make consistent progress. THey never did.

I think when you play for a weak team or minnow nations, the desire of performing for team should be in abundance. Kapil Dev had it in 80s and that’s why he went on to become a true great of the game.

Shakib seems to have started losing that desire which is why he decided to skip some away tours like one in SA and then also had attitude issues. He was someone who did great in first half but started losing motivation as he grew in his 30s.

 

[mominsaigol]

I think when you play for a weak team or minnow nations, the desire of performing for team should be in abundance. Kapil Dev had it in 80s and that’s why he went on to become a true great of the game.

Shakib seems to have started losing that desire which is why he decided to skip some away tours like one in SA and then also had attitude issues. He was someone who did great in first half but started losing motivation as he grew in his 30s.

Submission?

 

[Ab Fan]

Submission?

lol.

Did you shared the link I asked and why don’t you submit for lying on Azhar Ali scoring 200 vs Cummins? I ask you now, where is your submission to me ?

 

[mominsaigol]

lol.

Did you shared the link I asked and why don’t you submit for lying on Azhar Ali scoring 200 vs Cummins? I ask you now, where is your submission to me ?

I shared the literal Thread brother. Can you stop lying and just admit you once stated it and changed your mind?

Once you do, I'll explain Azhar Ali.

 

[mominsaigol]

I shared the literal Thread brother. Can you stop lying and just admit you once stated it and changed your mind?

Once you do, I'll explain Azhar Ali.

Also Azhar Ali submission isnt to you, another poster said it. So its not you, are you really stooping that low that you'll take other people's arguments and steal their credit?

 

[Ab Fan]

I shared the literal Thread brother. Can you stop lying and just admit you once stated it and changed your mind?

Once you do, I'll explain Azhar Ali.

I didn’t not receive it. Share it again and submit to me for the lie first.

 

[mominsaigol]

I didn’t not receive it. Share it again and submit to me for the lie first.

^^ Look at the god damn title, Date of the thread and then check post no # 68 and thengo on from their. Why is that so hard to bloody understand

 

[Ab Fan]

View attachment 157356

^^ Look at the god damn title, Date of the thread and then check post no # 68 and thengo on from their. Why is that so hard to bloody understand View attachment 157358View attachment 157357

I have no idea what nonsense you are stuck with. This post and the discussion I was having at that time had nothing to do with the discussion we were having.

There were other posters who were showing hypocrisy and trying to attack a legend of the game like VVS Laxman. It was just an answer to their attack by using their hypocrisy.

In your context, this post has nothing to do with what was our discussion at that time. But having said that, I didn’t posted a 100% universal fact that Azhar Ali doesn’t have a 200 vs Cummins lol.

 

[mominsaigol]

I have no idea what nonsense you are stuck with. This post and the discussion I was having at that time had nothing to do with the discussion we were having.

There were other posters who were showing hypocrisy and trying to attack a legend of the game like VVS Laxman. It was just an answer to their attack by using their hypocrisy.

In your context, this post has nothing to do with what was our discussion at that time. But having said that, I didn’t posted a 100% universal fact that Azhar Ali doesn’t have a 200 vs Cummins lol.

Calling VVS Laxman a 45 avg test specialist qith 17 centuries and only 1K more runs then Yousaf despite playing 40 extra games a legend. Hahahahahahahaahaaahahhahahaahhaahabahbabaahhahahahahahaha


Lol of the Century.

 

[Varun]

Did you shared the link I asked and why don’t you submit for lying on Azhar Ali scoring 200 vs Cummins?

Chatgpt does spin a yarn at times.

 

[Ab Fan]

Chatgpt does spin a yarn at times.

That’s right. This is what happens when posters rely on ChatGPT to post about any player and not watching them or following cricket stats via trusted sources.

 

[nish_mate]

Another PP thread derailed....

 

[mominsaigol]

That’s right. This is what happens when posters rely on ChatGPT to post about any player and not watching them or following cricket stats via trusted sources.

No i rely on this

 

[jnaveen1980]

I think when you play for a weak team or minnow nations, the desire of performing for team should be in abundance. Kapil Dev had it in 80s and that’s why he went on to become a true great of the game.

Shakib seems to have started losing that desire which is why he decided to skip some away tours like one in SA and then also had attitude issues. He was someone who did great in first half but started losing motivation as he grew in his 30s.

India was a great batting unit still. INdia totally outbatted AUstralia in Australia in 1985 tour. Infact could have won 3-0 with a bit of luck. BD is nowhere close to that. Guys like Shakib would be a good addition if you have a decent team which BD never managed to achieve as they never had half decent batting unit or pace unit which is what needed in SENA. Spinners are mostly support cast there. He probably would have done a role of guys like Vettori for a team like NZ.

 

[Ab Fan]

India was a great batting unit still. INdia totally outbatted AUstralia in Australia in 1985 tour. Infact could have won 3-0 with a bit of luck. BD is nowhere close to that. Guys like Shakib would be a good addition if you have a decent team which BD never managed to achieve as they never had half decent batting unit or pace unit which is what needed in SENA. Spinners are mostly support cast there. He probably would have done a role of guys like Vettori for a team like NZ.

BD did had a decent batting lineup and should have ideally won more if Shakib managed to achieve the initial promise that he showed. Tamim, Mushfiqur, Mahmudullah and Litton Das are all good batsman and they could have formed a solid core in Test team.