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Are Rohit Sharma and Shikhar Dhawan ODI ATGs?

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SLcric123

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Arguably two of the best opening batsmen in the world in ODI cricket. Both explosive enough although Rohit has knack of scoring big hundreds while Dhawan has a great record in ICC tournaments.

There stats are almost same but Dhawan has slightly better Strike Rate(94 to 88). Do you consider them ATGs and who is better between the two in one-day cricket?
 
Neither are all time greats because of their ineptitude when the ball swings or spins, or indeed if it bounces more than hip height. Rohit however can be a great of the ODI game if he continues to play the way he does since he really makes it count once he gets going (bloke's scored like 3 double hundreds - that's insane). Dhawan chokes in big games and is a free wicket outside Asia.
 
Not ATG but great ODI player. An average of 46 in current era just not enough to qualify to ATG.

Rohit's peak phase has got great numbers but we have to consider overall numbers.

Both failures in tests arena.
 
Rohit is racing ahead of pretty much every ODI opener barring Tendulkar, so yes I do consider him one. Special, special player.

Dhawan is brilliant too, but he does not bring anything unique or extraordinary which Rohit does, so I am not convinced about him.
 
salih said:
Neither are all time greats because of their ineptitude when the ball swings or spins, or indeed if it bounces more than hip height. Rohit however can be a great of the ODI game if he continues to play the way he does since he really makes it count once he gets going (bloke's scored like 3 double hundreds - that's insane). Dhawan chokes in big games and is a free wicket outside Asia.
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Not sure about some of the comments you have made.

Dhawan chokes in big games? He has tremendous record in ICC tournaments which has lots of big games.

Rohit and Dhawan struggle against bounce? Dhawan is okay against bounce but Rohit is probably the best player of the bouncer in the world. Have never seen him bothered by a bouncer. Infact he hits them for sixes quite frequently.
 
Rohit is an ODI ATG. There are some who get called ODI ATGs having done far less spectacular stuff than he has already.
 
Also, LOL at those talking about swing. Rahul Dravid could adeptly handle swing in ODIs. Who cares about most of the thousands of ODI runs he piled up, bar a handful of significant innings.
 
Opening the batting is such an easy task in ODi cricket. India already have backup in Rahul/Prithvi Shaw for the opening slot. But they are struggling to slot in anyone in the middle order.
 
The only thing Rohit has above Shikhar is the fact that Rohit makes daddy hundreds - 3 double hundreds is no joke.

But there is no evidence to suggest the Shikhar is anyway inferior to Rohit in the overall scheme of things. Shikhar has a considerably better away record than Rohit Sharma. Rohit is a through and through home track bully. The disparity between his home and away average is too big. Shikhar on the other hand maintains his average wherever he plays.

I like Shikhar more as an ODI player. He will definitely be an ATG. Rohit by virtue of his 3 double hundreds has already cemented himself as an ATG.
 
Right now I may be in the minority but I don't rate Rohit all that high.

He is defo good but that's about it.

Time will tell whether my assessment is right or wrong.
 
Still I am not convinced about both opening! On pitches with some assistance to bowlers, they lack the defense to negate! That's why I am furious at Rahul! If he had set his mind right he would have developed the precision for PROPER ALL FORMAT ALL CONDITION OPENING! An advanced version of Gambhir! He should have done that by now! That's why Gambhir/Sehwag, Sachin/Ganguly was even more dangerous because of the solidity & complement they shared between! Rahul may not be the solution now (his time is running), let's hope we get at least 1 opener who opens in all formats (Shaw?) in future!
 
Mamoon said:
<B>Rohit is racing ahead of pretty much every ODI opener barring Tendulkar, so yes I do consider him one.</B>Special, special player.

Dhawan is brilliant too, but he does not bring anything unique or extraordinary which Rohit does, so I am not convinced about him.
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Doubt about it. I mean if we do a bit of appproximation, say, if Rohit played in 90s or early 00s, he would have probably had his numbers as, an average of 36-37 and a Strike Rate of 75.

And if we do this for the likes of Mark Waugh or Saeed Anwar in current era, they would have averaged around 50 at Strike Rate of 90.
 
If Dhawan can deliver in WC 2019 he will be regarded as an ODI ATG. Not only are his overall numbers awesome, his performance in ICC events is epic.
 
Rohit will finish as an ODI great. Dhwaan is a brilliant ODI player but just don't get that ATG vibe about him.
 
No, both of them are not even close to being an ATG right now.
 
Yes. Rohit, Dhawan, Warner, de Kock, Roy, Hales, Fakhar and Guptil are all ATGs too. Rahul is not far behind either and Tamim can get there with another match-winning innings in a WC final.

:facepalm:
 
Both are very good players but not ATG at the moment . Rohit is good at making big hundreds once he is set while dhawan has scored runs in important matches like in champions trophies . In my opinion , dhawan is more clutch player than Rohit .
 
Rohit can as he will surely finish with 11k - 12k ODI runs at around 48-50 avg and if he plays worldcup match winning knock then he will surely odi legend.
 
Bilal7 said:
Yes. Rohit, Dhawan, Warner, de Kock, Roy, Hales, Fakhar and Guptil are all ATGs too. Rahul is not far behind either and Tamim can get there with another match-winning innings in a WC final.

:facepalm:
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You live in parallel world?
 
Ab Fan said:
Why so, mate? I think a century in a WC final by either of two would be enough to call them ATG.
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I do think Rohit may have more chance to go down as an ATG aong these two, but let's take a look at his career.

2007-2012 - Avg 30 SR 77

2013 - now - Avg 58 SR 92

Clearly, in his first half he was very poor and in his second half he has been brilliant. Normally, you don't have an ATG with such a poor half career. He has to do a lot more to overcome his poor start.
 
Buffet said:
I do think Rohit may have more chance to go down as an ATG aong these two, but let's take a look at his career.

2007-2012 - Avg 30 SR 77

2013 - now - Avg 58 SR 92

Clearly, in his first half he was very poor and in his second half he has been brilliant. Normally, you don't have an ATG with such a poor half career. He has to do a lot more to overcome his poor start.
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Like most Asian players, I believe he will play till 2023 WC as well. So, basically it is like 1/3 rd of his career is poor, while the 2th/3rd is absolutely excellent and 3rd one although is still left to be seen.
 
Individually none of them is but collectively they can be considered as one of the ATGs opening combination.
 
There is no such thing as an ODI ATG.

Test cricket is the format that makes you a great cricketer and last time I checked both of these players were nobodies in it.

What next? Kohli is GOAT because he averages 69 in ODIs? Get over your useless fun cricket obsession.
 
freelance_cricketer said:
There is no such thing as an ODI ATG.

Test cricket is the format that makes you a great cricketer and last time I checked both of these players were nobodies in it.

What next? Kohli is GOAT because he averages 69 in ODIs? Get over your useless fun cricket obsession.
Click to expand...

So, Bevan and Dhoni aren't greats?
 
Rohit maybe an ODI great. I'm only waiting for just 1 big innings on a big stage.
 
If Rohit does well in World Cup, he will be ATG in ODIs. He has improved his away stats remarkably in last 3 years. I still have him behind Gilchrist and Jayasuriya. Opening is the easiest position in ODIs nowadays, so Rohit's stats are quite inflated.

1 good World Cup and Rohit will be a major contender to be Sachin's partner in ATG XI.
 
Will depend on latter part of his career. He is going past every other Indian opener bar Tendulkar though.
 
Rohit isn't too far off from Kohli in almost all respects...Incredible...
 
Top 8 odi batsmen in last few years in no order: -

India- Kohli, Rohit, Dhawan
SA- Qdk
Eng- Root, Butter
NZ- Taylor
Aus- Warner

Williamson, Guptill, Babar, Faf next to follow.
 
I would say to be an ATG you have to be great in ODI's and Test's can't be good in one and fail in the other. That's just my view though, however both Rohit and Shikhar are great ODI players easily up there as the two best openers in the world right now.
 
Rohit Sharma averages under 30 against England, New Zealand and South Africa away from home at a SR of barely above 75. His technique has already been exposed by Amir twice and part of the reason why he's a test cricket failure is because he's a bunny against the moving ball. Also, he's 31 years old.

Do people not care to look at the facts anymore?
 
Bilal7 said:
Rohit Sharma averages under 30 against England, New Zealand and South Africa away from home at a SR of barely above 75. His technique has already been exposed by Amir twice and part of the reason why he's a test cricket failure is because he's a bunny against the moving ball. Also, he's 31 years old.

Do people not care to look at the facts anymore?
Click to expand...

Rohit averages 60 in England (54 against England in England) and 38 in NZ (37 in NZ in NZ). Averages against a particular team away from home is a meaningless statistic since the match might have been played anywhere in the world outside India. Stats against a particular team in the opposition's country makes a lot more sense.
 
ATG is a huge praise. Numbers are with these two batsmen but how many times they have been put under pressure? How many times we have seen them playing with tailenders and trying to farm the strike in view of either setting a target or chasing a target?
 
BaankeJi said:
ATG is a huge praise. Numbers are with these two batsmen but how many times they have been put under pressure? How many times we have seen them playing with tailenders and trying to farm the strike in view of either setting a target or chasing a target?
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What pressure? Rohit is an opener, batting with tailender is not his job, nor it should be a requirement. Openers have their own specific role, and Rohit is doing his job quite well.
 
Sachin136 said:
Rohit averages 60 in England (54 against England in England) and 38 in NZ (37 in NZ in NZ). Averages against a particular team away from home is a meaningless statistic since the match might have been played anywhere in the world outside India. Stats against a particular team in the opposition's country makes a lot more sense.
Click to expand...

I'm talking about cumulative numbers in those three countries since they test opening batsmen the most due to the - until recently - abundance of seam and swing. Additionally, away from home against a particular country means that the matches are played in that team's home. You're talking about neutral venues which I excluded for the reasons you said.

His average against those teams in their backyards is 29 and the SR is pretty awful as well. However, even these numbers do not do justice to how bad he is against the moving ball.

An ATG player would have to be a great player in any era and Rohit Sharma does not strike me as someone who could have been great in the 80s or 90s.
 
Rohit averages 60 in England and 54 against England in England? These are insane numbers! Thanks for sharing [MENTION=129948]Bilal7[/MENTION]
 
Bilal7 said:
I'm talking about cumulative numbers in those three countries since they test opening batsmen the most due to the - until recently - abundance of seam and swing. Additionally, away from home against a particular country means that the matches are played in that team's home. You're talking about neutral venues which I excluded for the reasons you said.

His average against those teams in their backyards is 29 and the SR is pretty awful as well. However, even these numbers do not do justice to how bad he is against the moving ball.

An ATG player would have to be a great player in any era and Rohit Sharma does not strike me as someone who could have been great in the 80s or 90s.
Click to expand...
From where are u getting these stats?
Rohit's avg in eng, aus is pretty good.
 
Bilal7 said:
I'm talking about cumulative numbers in those three countries since they test opening batsmen the most due to the - until recently - abundance of seam and swing. Additionally, away from home against a particular country means that the matches are played in that team's home. You're talking about neutral venues which I excluded for the reasons you said.

His average against those teams in their backyards is 29 and the SR is pretty awful as well. However, even these numbers do not do justice to how bad he is against the moving ball.

An ATG player would have to be a great player in any era and Rohit Sharma does not strike me as someone who could have been great in the 80s or 90s.
Click to expand...

Rohit averages 53 in England and 57 in Australia, for away matches. Are you making up numbers now? This thread is for ODIs only.
 
Guys, hope no one accuses [MENTION=129948]Bilal7[/MENTION] of having an agenda. I am sure he is not going to spare even Saeed Anwar and will soon share his away numbers in SENA. He is a very balanced poster.
 
Bilal7 said:
I'm talking about cumulative numbers in those three countries since they test opening batsmen the most due to the - until recently - abundance of seam and swing. Additionally, away from home against a particular country means that the matches are played in that team's home. You're talking about neutral venues which I excluded for the reasons you said.

His average against those teams in their backyards is 29 and the SR is pretty awful as well. However, even these numbers do not do justice to how bad he is against the moving ball.

An ATG player would have to be a great player in any era and Rohit Sharma does not strike me as someone who could have been great in the 80s or 90s.
Click to expand...

The numbers I posted are the ones for matches in those countries specifically. The numbers you posted take into consideration all away venues (including neutral ones) for Rohit. This decade, none of those countries except NZ have testing conditions.
 
Rohit Sharma will score 10K runs averaging 50+.
He redefined the art of building an ODI inning with his daddy hundreds and doubles.

ATG for sure.
 
As for Dhawan, his 5K ODI runs have been some of the most precious for India. Gabbar always bosses big tournaments, but I doubt he will ever get to 10K ODI runs, hence not fulfilling my ATG criteria.
 
ShahidDar08 said:
ATG of their home grounds. Dawan is mediocre where as Rohit is near to ATG.
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Rohit has averages of 50+ in Australia and England? Dhawan only has an average of 42 in India. He has higher averages in Australia, England, SA, and SL.
 
BreadPakoda said:
Guys, hope no one accuses [MENTION=129948]Bilal7[/MENTION] of having an agenda. I am sure he is not going to spare even Saeed Anwar and will soon share his away numbers in SENA. He is a very balanced poster.
Click to expand...

Saeed Anwar is not an ATG either.

Sachin136 said:
The numbers I posted are the ones for matches in those countries specifically. The numbers you posted take into consideration all away venues (including neutral ones) for Rohit. This decade, none of those countries except NZ have testing conditions.
Click to expand...

No, Rohit's combined average in England, New Zealand and South Africa as an opener is below 30 and the SR is around 75. This does not mean that he averages below 30 in each of those countries.

You can say that conditions worldwide have become much easier for the batsmen after the 2015 WC but before then, these were some of the challenging conditions for batsmen.

However, one does not need to look at stats to know that Sharma is pretty bad against the moving ball.
 
Bilal7 said:
Saeed Anwar is not an ATG either.



No, Rohit's combined average in England, New Zealand and South Africa as an opener is below 30 and the SR is around 75. This does not mean that he averages below 30 in each of those countries.

You can say that conditions worldwide have become much easier for the batsmen after the 2015 WC but before then, these were some of the challenging conditions for batsmen.

However, one does not need to look at stats to know that Sharma is pretty bad against the moving ball.
Click to expand...

What is the point of clubbing his average in England with his average in SA and NZ when he has performed well in England?
 
BreadPakoda said:
What is the point of clubbing his average in England with his average in SA and NZ when he has performed well in England?
Click to expand...

His Avg as opener in ENG, NZ & SA combined is 38. He hasn't played alot in NZ but did fine, Did very good in ENG & Failed only in SA so obviously he will try to link where he failed to score.
 
Bilal7 said:
Saeed Anwar is not an ATG either.



No, Rohit's combined average in England, New Zealand and South Africa as an opener is below 30 and the SR is around 75. This does not mean that he averages below 30 in each of those countries.

You can say that conditions worldwide have become much easier for the batsmen after the 2015 WC but before then, these were some of the challenging conditions for batsmen.

However, one does not need to look at stats to know that Sharma is pretty bad against the moving ball.
Click to expand...

If he has done well in England, how can you say he is bad against moving ball?
 
BreadPakoda said:
What is the point of clubbing his average in England with his average in SA and NZ when he has performed well in England?
Click to expand...

This is because those three countries are the biggest test for a player's technique against the moving ball just like India, Pakistan and Sri Lanka are the biggest test for a player's technique against spin.

BaankeJi said:
If he has done well in England, how can you say he is bad against moving ball?
Click to expand...

In how many matches? His combined average being 29 in those three countries means that his game against the moving ball is quite weak.

Besides, you don't even need the numbers to know that Rohit is a bunny against swing and seam. One only need watch him bat against Amir when there is even a little help for the pacer.
 
Bilal7 said:
This is because those three countries are the biggest test for a player's technique against the moving ball just like India, Pakistan and Sri Lanka are the biggest test for a player's technique against spin.

In how many matches? His combined average being 29 in those three countries means that his game against the moving ball is quite weak.

Besides, you don't even need the numbers to know that Rohit is a bunny against swing and seam. One only need watch him bat against Amir when there is even a little help for the pacer.
Click to expand...

This guy is confused between odis and tests. Sir this is ODI's thread and in odis 95% pitches are batsman friendly. Also from where you bring your own stats? His combined avg in ENG, SA & NZ is 38. Stop fooling people around with fake stats. Also who is great against moving ball in odis in today's era? Everyone struggles when there is help in odis. Also looks like you forgot his 91 vs Amir in 1st match of CT which had bit of help at start due to rain and wet conditions.
 
Sidilicious said:
Its simple dude. Whenever he scores, the pitch is flat. When he doesnt, it was swinging.
Click to expand...

Yeah this guy pretty much talks without logic. Used to say Matthews is better test player than Kohli. Amla is best ODI Opener.
 
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Bilal7 said:
This is because those three countries are the biggest test for a player's technique against the moving ball just like India, Pakistan and Sri Lanka are the biggest test for a player's technique against spin.



In how many matches? His combined average being 29 in those three countries means that his game against the moving ball is quite weak.

Besides, you don't even need the numbers to know that Rohit is a bunny against swing and seam. One only need watch him bat against Amir when there is even a little help for the pacer.
Click to expand...

Thsi thread is about ODIs.
 
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Amir has gotten Rohit out all of two/three times, if memory serves me right. And that has sent Bilal into a frenzy, as usual.

So much so that he has forgotten about the centuries he has scored across the globe against Johnson, Starc, Boult and Mustafizur - all of whom are lightyears ahead of Amir.

Billu ka hara chashmaa does it again! :sarf
 
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the_outsider said:
Amir has gotten Rohit out all of two/three times, if memory serves me right. And that has sent Bilal into a frenzy, as usual.

So much so that he has forgotten about the centuries he has scored across the globe against Johnson, Starc, Boult and Mustafizur - all of whom are lightyears ahead of Amir.

Billu ka hara chashmaa does it again! :sarf
Click to expand...

Well the same poster failed to notice that same Rohit Sharma & co. put a temporary end to Aamir's ODI career after the Asia Cup's thrashing. Well! You can't take someone seriously when he comes up with threads like 'Sarfaraz doesn't have to bat well to be in the team because he's a Specialist WK". ;)
 
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As an opening pair in ODIs, only Tendulkar-Ganguly and Hayden-Gilchrist have more 100+ partnerships.
 
srh said:
Rohit yes. Dhawan dont let me laugh.
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Nothing to laugh at someone with 16 ODI centuries.

He should retire with 25+

Shikhar Dhawan's ICC tournaments record of 60+ average in mostly non minnow matches is quite PHENOMENAL!
 
Tyler Durden said:
Well the same poster failed to notice that same Rohit Sharma & co. put a temporary end to Aamir's ODI career after the Asia Cup's thrashing. Well! You can't take someone seriously when he comes up with threads like 'Sarfaraz doesn't have to bat well to be in the team because he's a Specialist WK". ;)
Click to expand...

The asia cup was just the icing on the cake. He was performing badly b4 that too.
 
of course they are in ODIS.

tendulkar, dhawan and sharma are on the same level in odis
 
Tyler Durden said:
Well the same poster failed to notice that same Rohit Sharma & co. put a temporary end to Aamir's ODI career after the Asia Cup's thrashing. Well! You can't take someone seriously when he comes up with threads like 'Sarfaraz doesn't have to bat well to be in the team because he's a Specialist WK". ;)
Click to expand...

How about his opinion of his hero Hashim Amla and Babar Azam being better ODI batsman than Kohli? :))
 
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