Are you Deobandi, Barelvi or Ahle Hadith?

[sadida97]

Alright guys, let's go.

Yes we are first of all MUSLIMS. But, with which of these 3 groups do you agree the most ?

 

[shaz619]

Me mom and her side of the family have historically followed sufism but they never classified it as a sect but more of a supporting tool for sunni Islam, I presume that would make them a barelvi which is another word for sufism I think but is a bit more modern.

 

[shaz619]

So yeah, I'd probably say am more of a fan of sufism given its message of peace, love, tranquillity and tolerance.

 

[Musakhel]

So yeah, I'd probably say am more of a fan of sufism given its message of peace, love, tranquillity and tolerance.

You can be a deobandi or a barelvi and be a Sufi at the same time, both barelvi and deobandi are linked to the Chisti Sufi order.

Im a hanafi Sunni i don't ascribe to either group although 95+% of deobandi and barelvi beleifs are the same as both are hannafi Sunni.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

It's weird because all the time I was growing up I had never heard anything about Deobandis, Barelvis or anything else, even the word Wahabi only started getting used (mostly as an abusive term) later on in life as their ideology starting getting more widely known.

But as the mosques in our community generally tend to be favourable to the singing, chanting stuff I assume I would be Barelvi if I took it seriously. Which I don't.

 

[shaz619]

You can be a deobandi or a barelvi and be a Sufi at the same time, both barelvi and deobandi are linked to the Chisti Sufi order.

Im a hanafi Sunni i don't ascribe to either group although 95+% of deobandi and barelvi beleifs are the same as both are hannafi Sunni.

Sufism itself doesn't ascribe to either Deo or Barelvi teachings; it's a guide which can be used by folk who are not exactly attached to any of said groups and how it's utilized is not always consistent.

Deo's and Barelvi tend to disagree big time where I have grown up and I'd say there's a bigger Sufi influence amongst Barelvi's.

 

[ExpressPacer]

Me mom and her side of the family have historically followed sufism but they never classified it as a sect but more of a supporting tool for sunni Islam, I presume that would make them a barelvi which is another word for sufism I think but is a bit more modern.

Sufism is too beautiful to be encroached as "Barelvi" or any other such sects. Good on you, man!

 

[shaz619]

Found this on the net, think it sums up the difference between Barelvi and Deo's quiet well:

Barelvi movement emphasises devotion to the Islamic prophet Muhammad and a synthesis of Sharia with Sufi practices such as veneration of saints. Because of this, they are often called Sufi, although they have little in common with the Sufism of classical Islamic mystics. The movement later identified as Barelvis to differentiate itself from the Deobandi movement, which was influenced by the Wahhabi movement in Arabia

 

[ExpressPacer]

I am all for the Muslim brotherhood and bonding and oneness but the fact is, there DOES need to be a clear distinction between sects because followers of extreme sects like "Ahle Hadith" give the entire religion an extreme look.

I have studied Ahle Hadith's deeply and closely and their version of Islam - as far as my opinion goes - is EXCEEDINGLY extreme with views and support inclining towards exclusivity.

 

[shaz619]

Sufism is too beautiful to be encroached as "Barelvi" or any other such sects. Good on you, man!

Yeah there are big Barelvi, Wahabi , Deo and Salafi groups where I live but I've generally got on alright with the Barelvi's tbh compared to the others who always come across as intolerant; and you're right because the Barelvi folk I have met never attribute the name of their group with Sufism itself although it's a big influence on their beliefs

 

[shaz619]

[MENTION=141922]ExpressPacer[/MENTION], I never got to ask you but how do you feel about the religion of Islam in general, your faith and personal beliefs etc if you don't mind me asking. Because while you criticise certain things you never really come across as someone who doesn't believe in religion etc

 

[Musakhel]

Sufism itself doesn't ascribe to either Deo or Barelvi teachings; it's a guide which can be used by folk who are not exactly attached to any of said groups and how it's utilized is not always consistent.

Deo's and Barelvi tend to disagree big time where I have grown up and I'd say there's a bigger Sufi influence amongst Barelvi's.

Barelvis and deobandi disagree on off the top of my head.

Hazir/Nazir issue
Ilm o ghaib
Bashar or noor.

 

[shaz619]

It's weird because all the time I was growing up I had never heard anything about Deobandis, Barelvis or anything else, even the word Wahabi only started getting used (mostly as an abusive term) later on in life as their ideology starting getting more widely known.

But as the mosques in our community generally tend to be favourable to the singing, chanting stuff I assume I would be Barelvi if I took it seriously. Which I don't.

Allah hu ! Allah hu !



They call it zikhr, it was going on during the night of power in Ramada; I went there and was like what's going on here lads I just want the coke, pakoreh and mitai haha

One of the blokes was telling me how it's a form of spirituality, you can see how much they're influenced by Sufism but I am not not sure how much of a link they have with the classical mystics although they do have similar practices

 

[sadida97]

I am Ahle Hadith

 

[shaz619]

Barelvis and deobandi disagree on off the top of my head.

Hazir/Nazir issue
Ilm o ghaib
Bashar or noor.

There have also been some arguments regarding the prophet but I can't remember what they were, it was really heated though. And the Deo link with Wahabi's is also not in line with what Barelvi's stand for they tend to strongly dislike them for that

 

[shaz619]

[MENTION=142623]Musakhel[/MENTION] Where am at , you always see steel cage match between Barelvi vs Salafi / Wahabi / Deo I always have my popcorn ready

 

[Slog]

Not a clue

I know I'm not ahl-E-Hadith

If someone pesters I say I am Sunni Muslim but normally saying I am Muslim is enough for me

 

[Eagle_Eye]

I am all for the Muslim brotherhood and bonding and oneness but the fact is, there DOES need to be a clear distinction between sects because followers of extreme sects like "Ahle Hadith" give the entire religion an extreme look.

I have studied Ahle Hadith's deeply and closely and their version of Islam - as far as my opinion goes - is EXCEEDINGLY extreme with views and support inclining towards exclusivity.

Is Ahle Hadith not the same as Wahabi?

It's a wrong terminology anyway to describe an extreme sect, all Muslims from both strands of Islam (Sunni and Shia) are ahle Hadith.

 

[ExpressPacer]

Is Ahle Hadith not the same as Wahabi?

Yes, they are the same thing.

It's a wrong terminology anyway to describe an extreme sect, all Muslims from both strands of Islam (Sunni and Shia) are ahle Hadith.

Of course. The same way, we are are all Ahle-ta'Shee, Ahle-Sunnat and Ahle-Hadis but my post was for you to see it out of the literal meaning and in the grand scheme of things.

 

[Musakhel]

There have also been some arguments regarding the prophet but I can't remember what they were, it was really heated though. And the Deo link with Wahabi's is also not in line with what Barelvi's stand for they tend to strongly dislike them for that

The actual term deobandi and barelvi are not that old maybe 150 years max, if you study in a barelvi or deobandi school they will teach you from the same aqeedah book of Imam Tahawi, the issues I mentioned are latter day aqeedah issue and are not mentioned in Imam Tahawi book, so believing or not believing in them are not core aqeedah issues of the first muslims.

 

[Slog]

Are deobandi and barelvi subcontinental specific sects?

both are places in india

what is an equivalent of lets say a deobandi in the arab world?

 

[ahmedwaqas92]

I am not too sure who I am really ???? I just try to pray 5 times a day and recite the Quran as often I can. What does that make me ??

 

[ExpressPacer]

[MENTION=141922]ExpressPacer[/MENTION], I never got to ask you but how do you feel about the religion of Islam in general, your faith and personal beliefs etc if you don't mind me asking. Because while you criticise certain things you never really come across as someone who doesn't believe in religion etc

Of course bro, you can ask me anything you want.

As far the religion of Islam itself is concerned, I think it is the most beautiful, most enchanting and the most perfect religion or thing to have graced the Earth. Having said that, I maintain that I'm talking about Islam in its pure, original and true essence. Islam has been hijacked by a massive group of vigilantes who have tarnished Islam as a religion and as an ideology.

The reason why it seems as though I'm someone who's anti-Islamic, has weak faith or too critical in general is because the masses have started following a version of Islam that never existed. Supposedly an extreme religion which supposedly says and agrees that the Prophet married a child, that women are supposed to cover themselves like Ninja's head to toe and that they are inferior to men, that anyone who doesn't pray in congregation in the mosque deserves to have his house burned down, that anyone who isn't Muslim deserves to be killed and the licence to call anyone an apostate. This was never what Islam was. My problem is that most people actually agree with these fabricated lies and I can't put up with that. The real Islam is beautiful and about peace. It is oblivious to me how people put up such an image of Islam and then expect people to be positive about Islam, let alone convert.

As my faith and personal beliefs go, my faith is very strong. Obviously, sometimes I find myself questioning things but then - every single time - it hits me that religion and God cannot be explained by logic.

I don't pray very often. But that's not because I don't believe praying is important. That's just because I procrastinate things and I'm lazy.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Yeah there are big Barelvi, Wahabi , Deo and Salafi groups where I live but I've generally got on alright with the Barelvi's tbh compared to the others who always come across as intolerant; and you're right because the Barelvi folk I have met never attribute the name of their group with Sufism itself although it's a big influence on their beliefs

Aren't Wahabi, Deobandi and Salafi groups all basically the same thing in essence? The different tags are just names of different scholars at some point in time I thought?

 

[Musakhel]

Are deobandi and barelvi subcontinental specific sects?

both are places in india

what is an equivalent of lets say a deobandi in the arab world?

Outside of South Asia no one knows what is deobandi or barelvi.

The Arab equivalent would be ikhwani, hizb ut tahrir , and other salafi groups.

They are all salafi but have various disagreements.

In the Arab world the Sunnis are not as divided into groups, they will identify as ahle sunnah wal jammah as a whole.

 

[DRsohail]

deobandi .....

 

[Eagle_Eye]

I am not too sure who I am really ???? I just try to pray 5 times a day and recite the Quran as often I can. What does that make me ??

A muslim.

 

[Eagle_Eye]

Yes, they are the same thing.



Of course. The same way, we are are all Ahle-ta'Shee, Ahle-Sunnat and Ahle-Hadis but my post was for you to see it out of the literal meaning and in the grand scheme of things.

Words are important, because they dictate the thinking process, and also also the extremists can get a veneer of respectability to the untrained eye if they are band themselves under such a name.
That term must not be surrendered to the extremists and they out to be called what they are.... wahabis.

 

[UN talkz]

I am a Musalmaan and nothing else.....

 

[shaz619]

Of course bro, you can ask me anything you want.

As far the religion of Islam itself is concerned, I think it is the most beautiful, most enchanting and the most perfect religion or thing to have graced the Earth. Having said that, I maintain that I'm talking about Islam in its pure, original and true essence. Islam has been hijacked by a massive group of vigilantes who have tarnished Islam as a religion and as an ideology.

The reason why it seems as though I'm someone who's anti-Islamic, has weak faith or too critical in general is because the masses have started following a version of Islam that never existed. Supposedly an extreme religion which supposedly says and agrees that the Prophet married a child, that women are supposed to cover themselves like Ninja's head to toe and that they are inferior to men, that anyone who doesn't pray in congregation in the mosque deserves to have his house burned down, that anyone who isn't Muslim deserves to be killed and the licence to call anyone an apostate. This was never what Islam was. My problem is that most people actually agree with these fabricated lies and I can't put up with that. The real Islam is beautiful and about peace. It is oblivious to me how people put up such an image of Islam and then expect people to be positive about Islam, let alone convert.

As my faith and personal beliefs go, my faith is very strong. Obviously, sometimes I find myself questioning things but then - every single time - it hits me that religion and God cannot be explained by logic.

I don't pray very often. But that's not because I don't believe praying is important. That's just because I procrastinate things and I'm lazy.

Great post and thanks for sharing, unfortunate what those groups get up to I don't like them either but they're good muslims like you out there which matters.

 

[shaz619]

Aren't Wahabi, Deobandi and Salafi groups all basically the same thing in essence? The different tags are just names of different scholars at some point in time I thought?

In essence I'd probably agree with you that they are a lot alike then different to be fair when it comes to their principles. Wahabism is basically an extreme form of Salfism and Deobandi also has Salafi/Wahabi influences

 

[Hadi Rizvi]

A gift to all those who talk about unity of ummah.

"Imām al-Barbahārī stated: “Know that Allah’s Messenger (SAWW) said: “My ummah will divide into 73 sects, all of them will be in the Fire except for one.” It was said, “And who are they, O Allah’s Messenger?” He responded, “That which I and my Companions are upon today.”

Reference: Tirmidhī, no. 2641; Ibn Nasr al-Marwazī in As-Sunnah, no. 59; Al-Hākim in al-Mustadrak, 1/218; Al-Ājurrī in ash-Sharee’ah, no. 23; Al-Lālikā’ī in Sharh Usool al-I’tiqād, no. 147; Ibn Battah in al-Ibānah, no. 196"

So please choose a side and stick with it

 

[Hadi Rizvi]

Of course bro, you can ask me anything you want.

As far the religion of Islam itself is concerned, I think it is the most beautiful, most enchanting and the most perfect religion or thing to have graced the Earth. Having said that, I maintain that I'm talking about Islam in its pure, original and true essence. Islam has been hijacked by a massive group of vigilantes who have tarnished Islam as a religion and as an ideology.

The reason why it seems as though I'm someone who's anti-Islamic, has weak faith or too critical in general is because the masses have started following a version of Islam that never existed. Supposedly an extreme religion which supposedly says and agrees that the Prophet married a child, that women are supposed to cover themselves like Ninja's head to toe and that they are inferior to men, that anyone who doesn't pray in congregation in the mosque deserves to have his house burned down, that anyone who isn't Muslim deserves to be killed and the licence to call anyone an apostate. This was never what Islam was. My problem is that most people actually agree with these fabricated lies and I can't put up with that. The real Islam is beautiful and about peace. It is oblivious to me how people put up such an image of Islam and then expect people to be positive about Islam, let alone convert.

As my faith and personal beliefs go, my faith is very strong. Obviously, sometimes I find myself questioning things but then - every single time - it hits me that religion and God cannot be explained by logic.

I don't pray very often. But that's not because I don't believe praying is important. That's just because I procrastinate things and I'm lazy.

100% agreed

Whatever you've said, I've practically seen people follow it because I've spent 16 years in the Middle East so I totally understand your dismay and disappointment.

 

[Yossarian]

I guarantee that the vast majority of Muslims in Britain aren't even aware of, or give thought to, these differences.

The town in which I grew up had only two mosques at that time, located at opposite ends of town. One was an old school building converted to a mosques whilst the other one was two large semi-detached houses that had the internal walls removed.

Regardless of whether one was a Sunni or Shia, or any other group/sub-group, you simply went to the nearest mosque to where you lived.

I only discovered we were Sunni, and our closest friends Shia's when I was into my late teens. And that was purely by chance. My RE teacher had asked me at school and I then asked my parents.

 

[Slog]

I guarantee that the vast majority of Muslims in Britain aren't even aware of, or give thought to, these differences.

The town in which I grew up had only two mosques at that time, located at opposite ends of town. One was an old school building converted to a mosques whilst the other one was two large semi-detached houses that had the internal walls removed.

Regardless of whether one was a Sunni or Shia, or any other group/sub-group, you simply went to the nearest mosque to where you lived.

I only discovered we were Sunni, and our closest friends Shia's when I was into my late teens. And that was purely by chance. My RE teacher had asked me at school and I then asked my parents.

How can you simply go to the nearest mosque regardless of Shia Sunni?

The method of prayer is different.

If let's say a Shia mosque was close you would go there?

I didn't know much about (and still don't in detail) about differences between depbandi, barelvi etc but Shia Sunni differences are huge in terms of practises (even if aim may be same but physical practises or let's say time of fast etc) and you kinda get to know them early on.

 

[ExpressPacer]

100% agreed

Whatever you've said, I've practically seen people follow it because I've spent 16 years in the Middle East so I totally understand your dismay and disappointment.

Is it really you? My G, where have you been?

And yeah man, its just so heartbreaking how its become rampant even in places like Pakistan now..

 

[ExpressPacer]

Great post and thanks for sharing, unfortunate what those groups get up to I don't like them either but they're good muslims like you out there which matters.

Thanks bro!

InshAllah we all stay on the right and true path.

 

[ExpressPacer]

A gift to all those who talk about unity of ummah.

"Imām al-Barbahārī stated: “Know that Allah’s Messenger (SAWW) said: “My ummah will divide into 73 sects, all of them will be in the Fire except for one.” It was said, “And who are they, O Allah’s Messenger?” He responded, “That which I and my Companions are upon today.”

Reference: Tirmidhī, no. 2641; Ibn Nasr al-Marwazī in As-Sunnah, no. 59; Al-Hākim in al-Mustadrak, 1/218; Al-Ājurrī in ash-Sharee’ah, no. 23; Al-Lālikā’ī in Sharh Usool al-I’tiqād, no. 147; Ibn Battah in al-Ibānah, no. 196"

So please choose a side and stick with it

Exactly why I made Post #9!

 

[Eagle_Eye]

How can you simply go to the nearest mosque regardless of Shia Sunni?

The method of prayer is different.

If let's say a Shia mosque was close you would go there?

I didn't know much about (and still don't in detail) about differences between depbandi, barelvi etc but Shia Sunni differences are huge in terms of practises (even if aim may be same but physical practises or let's say time of fast etc) and you kinda get to know them early on.

Back in the 80s .... when i attended army school, Sunni and and Shia would pray together in army mosque. There were some differences but nothing that would stop you from praying together...

More recently, I have seen Shia and Sunni praying together in my cricket team in Ramadan during matches.... they would nip off during tea or before start and do jamaat....

 

[Slog]

Back in the 80s .... when i attended army school, Sunni and and Shia would pray together in army mosque. There were some differences but nothing that would stop you from praying together...

More recently, I have seen Shia and Sunni praying together in my cricket team in Ramadan during matches.... th would nip off during tea or before start and do jamaat....

Couple years ago I accidentally ended up in a Shia mosque and the method prayer was very different to Sunni

 

[kaayal]

I am a Sunni muslim following Shafi madhab.

My nearby mosque is a salafi masjid where i have heard about this 'ahle Hadith' term in Qutba. No idea about the deobandi's, barelvi's etc tbh.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

How can you simply go to the nearest mosque regardless of Shia Sunni?

The method of prayer is different.

If let's say a Shia mosque was close you would go there?

I didn't know much about (and still don't in detail) about differences between depbandi, barelvi etc but Shia Sunni differences are huge in terms of practises (even if aim may be same but physical practises or let's say time of fast etc) and you kinda get to know them early on.

I think these differences are probably more evident in countries like Pakistan where the Muslims are a vast majority and have too much time on their hands, hence these topics probably seem more exciting. In the UK your average Muslim will be more concerned about day to day life in a non-Muslim country and will have more pressing matters to deal with.

That said, as the conflicts across the Muslim world take a more sectarian turn, some of that will probably get reflected here.

 

[Musakhel]

A gift to all those who talk about unity of ummah.

"Imām al-Barbahārī stated: “Know that Allah’s Messenger (SAWW) said: “My ummah will divide into 73 sects, all of them will be in the Fire except for one.” It was said, “And who are they, O Allah’s Messenger?” He responded, “That which I and my Companions are upon today.”

Reference: Tirmidhī, no. 2641; Ibn Nasr al-Marwazī in As-Sunnah, no. 59; Al-Hākim in al-Mustadrak, 1/218; Al-Ājurrī in ash-Sharee’ah, no. 23; Al-Lālikā’ī in Sharh Usool al-I’tiqād, no. 147; Ibn Battah in al-Ibānah, no. 196"

So please choose a side and stick with it

A lot of these 73 sects are extinct such as the qaddariyah, mutazaliyah ect, deobandi and barelvi are not sects since they both are hanafi maturidi in aqeedah and fiqh.

Ahle hadith are a sect because they do not adhere to any madhab nor Sunni aqeedah.

 

[in_cutter]

[MENTION=143438]sadida97[/MENTION] I don't even know to be honest. It's too confusing. I am a Muslim. That is what matters.

 

[Arham_PakFan]

I know about Deobandi's,Barelvis and Ahl-e-hadith,but me(and my family) have never considered ourselves as part of those,or any other sect.We just consider ourselves as muslims and try to practice the religion as layed down and instructed by our Prophet(SAW)

 

[Eagle_Eye]

Couple years ago I accidentally ended up in a Shia mosque and the method prayer was very different to Sunni

Interested o know what sort of differences were they?

 

[Slog]

Interested o know what sort of differences were they?

dont remember that clearly honestly

there was a rock in front of everyone on which the sajdah was done

people around me didnt fold their hands

basically what happend was that i had missed friday prayers in 3 mosques consecutively (like i would reach one it would be done) so i go to next closest and i would be done as well

so i went to the next closest one and in my hurry didnt even realize that it was a shia mosque until i was in it. it was pretty clear from the outside if you look at it tbh but i wasnt thinking

 

[Eagle_Eye]

dont remember that clearly honestly

there was a rock in front of everyone on which the sajdah was done

people around me didnt fold their hands

basically what happend was that i had missed friday prayers in 3 mosques consecutively (like i would reach one it would be done) so i go to next closest and i would be done as well

so i went to the next closest one and in my hurry didnt even realize that it was a shia mosque until i was in it. it was pretty clear from the outside if you look at it tbh but i wasnt thinking

Hands in a different position definitely remember, something's in front where to do sajda, now that you mention it, I am having a vague recollection but I don't think all did it so it's not a prominent memory.

But you could carry out your prayer your way in the jamaat?

 

[Slog]

Hands in a different position definitely remember, something's in front where to do sajda, now that you mention it, I am having a vague recollection but I don't think all did it so it's not a prominent memory.

But you could carry out your prayer your way in the jamaat?

Yea as far as i remember

but i guess people might ask if its a normal prayer time and not jumma

 

[TSA321]

All I knew growing up was that I'm Sunni, had never even heard of Deobandi or Barelwi until a few years ago on the Internet.

 

[Yossarian]

How can you simply go to the nearest mosque regardless of Shia Sunni?

The method of prayer is different.

If let's say a Shia mosque was close you would go there?

I didn't know much about (and still don't in detail) about differences between depbandi, barelvi etc but Shia Sunni differences are huge in terms of practises (even if aim may be same but physical practises or let's say time of fast etc) and you kinda get to know them early on.

Back in the 80s .... when i attended army school, Sunni and and Shia would pray together in army mosque. There were some differences but nothing that would stop you from praying together...

More recently, I have seen Shia and Sunni praying together in my cricket team in Ramadan during matches.... they would nip off during tea or before start and do jamaat....

"How can you simply go to the nearest mosque regardless of Shia Sunni?". Ever heard of a mosque named Al-Masjid al-Haram? To my recollection, Muslims from every sect and every background appear to pray there together, including Sunnis and Shias. Enough said.

 

[Yatoo]

Ahlul Hadeeth / Salafi

 

[KingKhanWC]

I have certain issues with every so called sect but my local mosque is Barelvi.

My biggest issue with this sect is the 'Pir' being so important or even having special 'powers'.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

All I knew growing up was that I'm Sunni, had never even heard of Deobandi or Barelwi until a few years ago on the Internet.

Glad I'm not the only one with this experience. To be honest I hadn't even heard about Ahmadis before the days of the internet. The web certainly is a great tool for polarising along differences.

 

[ToeCrusher2]

I am not too sure who I am really ???? I just try to pray 5 times a day and recite the Quran as often I can. What does that make me ??

A normie?

 

[Bewal Express]

I have certain issues with every so called sect but my local mosque is Barelvi.

My biggest issue with this sect is the 'Pir' being so important or even having special 'powers'.

I love Pirs, the way the dress as some sort of pop star and the way they fleece money of idiots is sight to behold. To be fair not all Pir`s are like that, there is a guy a Tipton in the Black Country who had Muslims, Sikhs and Christians as "clients" and he didnt charge a penny. We took my sister in law and he just said that she needed to give to her charity of choice. But 99.99% are bloody good con artists.

 

[Inswing]

Shia.

I hope i wont be labeled as infidel here atleast

 

[GujjarLife]

Ahl-e-Hadees.

Grew up in a Barelvi family, but grew tired of their antics. They are deeply sectarian and the most intolerant 'sect' out there. I still havent met a Barelvi willing to condemn Mumtaz Qadri.

 

[CricketCartoons]

I become a muslim during iftar parties. Don't know which sect.

 

[MosquitoMan]

I had a Deobandi upbringing. I don't know the details of the major sects of Islam, only from what I've been able to find out from anecdotes from other people as well as reading up bits and pieces on the internet. From what I gather Deobandism is a puritanical form of Islam, similar to Wahabbism of Saudi Arabia. When I was a kid, most of my Muslim friends and classmates seemed to be Barelvi and one day some of them found out the particular mosque I went to. They were in shock, pointing out that I went to a Wahabbi mosque. At the time I didn't know what all these labels meant. But to them, I may as well have been Wahabbi given the sectarian distrust between Barelvis and Deobandis where I live and the puritanical similarities between Wahabbi and Deobandi Islam.

Barelvis I gather are more celebratory and spiritual Muslims? The ones I knew didn't seem to be so uptight and rigid compared to the Muslims I was surrounded by in mosques.

 

[IAJ]

I have certain issues with every so called sect but my local mosque is Barelvi.

My biggest issue with this sect is the 'Pir' being so important or even having special 'powers'.

‘Pirs’ or Murhsid are real assets for common muslim to walk on the straight path. But the problem is that in Pakistan you also find many fake pirs who do all the strange things just to loot the people. These fake people have really hurted the image of true pirs/murshids. A murshids job, first and foremost is to guide the mureeds/students. And a pir has to follow Sharia, otherwise he is not a true pir. How can a person who himself does not follow the teachings of Islam guide others?

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I had a Deobandi upbringing. I don't know the details of the major sects of Islam, only from what I've been able to find out from anecdotes from other people as well as reading up bits and pieces on the internet. From what I gather Deobandism is a puritanical form of Islam, similar to Wahabbism of Saudi Arabia. When I was a kid, most of my Muslim friends and classmates seemed to be Barelvi and one day some of them found out the particular mosque I went to. They were in shock, pointing out that I went to a Wahabbi mosque. At the time I didn't know what all these labels meant. But to them, I may as well have been Wahabbi given the sectarian distrust between Barelvis and Deobandis where I live and the puritanical similarities between Wahabbi and Deobandi Islam.

Barelvis I gather are more celebratory and spiritual Muslims? The ones I knew didn't seem to be so uptight and rigid compared to the Muslims I was surrounded by in mosques.

I'm the other way round. Not that I have much to do with mosques, but the singing and chanting at Barelvi mosques makes me really uncomfortable. I think I would prefer the Wahabi ones where you can just go in, do the necessary and get out quick. If I want to chant or sing, I think I'd rather visit a nice Hindu temple where they do these things much better.

 

[IAJ]

I'm the other way round. Not that I have much to do with mosques, but the singing and chanting at Barelvi mosques makes me really uncomfortable. I think I would prefer the Wahabi ones where you can just go in, do the necessary and get out quick. If I want to chant or sing, I think I'd rather visit a nice Hindu temple where they do these things much better.

This is quite a disrespectful post. I assume you are talking about singing nasheeds/naats and doing loud dhikr? How on earth can you compare these Islamic actions with hindus’ singing? If you are not comfortable, fine, but why show this ignorance?

 

[MosquitoMan]

I'm the other way round. Not that I have much to do with mosques, but the singing and chanting at Barelvi mosques makes me really uncomfortable. I think I would prefer the Wahabi ones where you can just go in, do the necessary and get out quick. If I want to chant or sing, I think I'd rather visit a nice Hindu temple where they do these things much better.

I can imagine the chanting can be extremely annoying in these mosques, judging from my experience of witnessing hundreds of Barelvis walking down my street every year on the Prophet's birthday. I haven't experienced Barelvi mosques much beyond praying in them for funerals. Still, I think I'd be more warm to this overtly celebratory form of Islam than the darkly austere form of religion that the Deobandis promote. Sure, these superstitious rituals aren't tolerated much but neither is anything else. Barelvis are spoke of in the same bracket as apostates, heretics, non believers and Jews from the old faithful that I was surrounded by when I was young. It's their Islam or the highway, everyone else are kaafir.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

This is quite a disrespectful post. I assume you are talking about singing nasheeds/naats and doing loud dhikr? How on earth can you compare these Islamic actions with hindus’ singing? If you are not comfortable, fine, but why show this ignorance?

It's only disrespectful if you consider singing and chanting in a Hindu temple a bad thing which I never did. I am quite clear here that it is my own personal view, didn't say it was a correct one. If I showed ignorance then you could consider it an opportunity to show the light.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I can imagine the chanting can be extremely annoying in these mosques, judging from my experience of witnessing hundreds of Barelvis walking down my street every year on the Prophet's birthday. I haven't experienced Barelvi mosques much beyond praying in them for funerals. Still, I think I'd be more warm to this overtly celebratory form of Islam than the darkly austere form of religion that the Deobandis promote. Sure, these superstitious rituals aren't tolerated much but neither is anything else. Barelvis are spoke of in the same bracket as apostates, heretics, non believers and Jews from the old faithful that I was surrounded by when I was young. It's their Islam or the highway, everyone else are kaafir.

I have only really attended a supposedly Wahabi mosque at a funeral, and didn't really hear anything about apostates or kafirs then, probably understandable considering the circumstances. So I don't really know one way or another what goes on in those places the rest of the time.

 

[CricketCartoons]

I'm the other way round. Not that I have much to do with mosques, but the singing and chanting at Barelvi mosques makes me really uncomfortable. I think I would prefer the Wahabi ones where you can just go in, do the necessary and get out quick. If I want to chant or sing, I think I'd rather visit a nice Hindu temple where they do these things much better.

This is quite disrespectful and hinduphobic post from you. What has happened to you? Comparing hindus with barelvis? You don't like us fair enough, but why show this ignorance?

 

[Pakistanian]

I've never heard these terms growing up, we just knew we were Muslims. Heck i didnt even find of we're Sunnis untild i was 9 or 10. However based of geography, Eid duration and prayer styles, i would say I'm a Hannafi.

As for Deobandis vs Barelvis, I'd say I'm not as conservative as the deobandis but nor do i like the shirk/ shrine/sufi worshipping as the Barelvis

 

[Madplayer]

I wonder how many of you have interacted with someone from 'Ask imam' which is a deoband organisation. I used to think these guys are moderate but once i wanted to clarify some things about Islam's stance on dealing with pagans and the reply i got was not so moderate lol Needless to say i never talked to anyone from that org. again. I am sorry if someone here is a deobandi. Just narrating my experience.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

This is quite disrespectful and hinduphobic post from you. What has happened to you? Comparing hindus with barelvis? You don't like us fair enough, but why show this ignorance?

Now that old Baba Bulle Shah sher comes to mind

 

[MosquitoMan]

I have only really attended a supposedly Wahabi mosque at a funeral, and didn't really hear anything about apostates or kafirs then, probably understandable considering the circumstances. So I don't really know one way or another what goes on in those places the rest of the time.

Well yes, funerals aren't usually the most appropriate time to spread messages. I've listened to plenty of Jummah sermons as well as speeches from one of the many 'programmes' by Dad would sometimes take me to where they would lecture us about the decadent West, using very broad strokes to generalise about non Muslims, heck as well as some Muslims like Barelvis. Isolationism is what's often taught amongst other traditional things. I'd often find such lectures rather dull for the most part except for the parts where we had to listen to rhetoric concerning the West and non believers which were colourful moments to say the least.

Now in my mainly Pakistani community we're seeing women wearing the full Burqa which is odd given it's not a strictly Islamic garb and more of an Arab thing. Sometimes I feel Deobandis wish they were Arabs. But that's a whole different story I guess.

 

[troodon]

I'm the other way round. Not that I have much to do with mosques, but the singing and chanting at Barelvi mosques makes me really uncomfortable. I think I would prefer the Wahabi ones where you can just go in, do the necessary and get out quick. If I want to chant or sing, I think I'd rather visit a nice Hindu temple where they do these things much better.

Chanting and singing started in Subcontinent during the Bhakti Movement around 7th or 8th century. Since then singing Bhajans and chanting mantras have become part of Hinduism. You can see that still practiced to its extreme by Hare Krishna followers.

Islamic saints studied and incorporated the principles of Bhakti movement and hence Sufism was born. The chanting, singing you see in Sufi Dargah's and the followers are sufism is the direct influence of this Bhakti movement.

Sufism due to its similarities to Bhakti movement also caught on with Hindus and enabled them to become Muslims slowly. Prior to Sufism, the methods used to convert Local Hindus by Muslim rulers mostly ended in bloodshed.

There is a reason Wahabis and Orthodox Muslims do not like Sufism. For them chanting and singing and dancing is what Kafirs do.

 

[Black Zero]

Chanting and singing started in Subcontinent during the Bhakti Movement around 7th or 8th century. Since then singing Bhajans and chanting mantras have become part of Hinduism. You can see that still practiced to its extreme by Hare Krishna followers.

Islamic saints studied and incorporated the principles of Bhakti movement and hence Sufism was born. The chanting, singing you see in Sufi Dargah's and the followers are sufism is the direct influence of this Bhakti movement.

Sufism due to its similarities to Bhakti movement also caught on with Hindus and enabled them to become Muslims slowly. Prior to Sufism, the methods used to convert Local Hindus by Muslim rulers mostly ended in bloodshed.

There is a reason Wahabis and Orthodox Muslims do not like Sufism. For them chanting and singing and dancing is what Kafirs do.

Islamic sufism is originated in Medina.

Hasan Basri is known to be among first sufis...was born in in 642 AD in Medina.

 

[troodon]

Islamic sufism is originated in Medina.

Hasan Basri is known to be among first sufis...was born in in 642 AD in Medina.

So we're sufis there at the time of Prophet?

 

[Black Zero]

So we're sufis there at the time of Prophet?

Some call that Ali (cousin of prophet of Islam) was the first sufi..(I do not buy it, though). if you buy that, this would mean that yes there was at-least one sufi during the life.

Regarding Hassan Basri, he was born in 642 AD (and he spent time in the home of Umm-e-Salma, one of the wives of prophet of Islam) and prophet of Islam died in 632AD so there is a 10 years gap.

 

[troodon]

Some call that Ali (cousin of prophet of Islam) was the first sufi..(I do not buy it, though). if you buy that, this would mean that yes there was at-least one sufi during the life.

Regarding Hassan Basri, he was born in 642 AD (and he spent time in the home of Umm-e-Salma, one of the wives of prophet of Islam) and prophet of Islam died in 632AD so there is a 10 years gap.

Sufism did not arrive in India until 15th and 16th centuries. More than 500 yrs after The first Muslims arrived with their armies.

May be if Arab and central Asian armies arrived in India singing and chanting, the entire India might have been Muslims.

Us Indians like Bhajans and chanting too much.

 

[Black Zero]

Sufism did not arrive in India until 15th and 16th centuries. More than 500 yrs after The first Muslims arrived with their armies.

May be if Arab and central Asian armies arrived in India singing and chanting, the entire India might have been Muslims.

Us Indians like Bhajans and chanting too much.

I do not know if Hassan Basri was into music.

Sufism arrived much earlier, few examples:

Ali Hujwiri (lahore)
Nizam uddin Aoulia (delhi)
Fariduddin Ganjshakar
Moinuddin Chishti (ajmeer)

 

[troodon]

I do not know if Hassan Basri was into music.

Sufism arrived much earlier, few examples:

Ali Hujwiri (lahore)
Nizam uddin Aoulia (delhi)
Fariduddin Ganjshakar
Moinuddin Chishti (ajmeer)

Wasn't there a thread where according to Islam music is haram? If so, I doubt that early sufis were singing and dancing.

 

[Black Zero]

Wasn't there a thread where according to Islam music is haram? If so, I doubt that early sufis were singing and dancing.

Sufi do not actually follow shria...so you never know...
if you really need to know, then i can search in my books. let me know.

 

[troodon]

Sufi do not actually follow shria...so you never know...
if you really need to know, then i can search in my books. let me know.

There used to be a Dargah near my house where I grew up. Used to listen to Sufi songs during urs festivals. Some were really nice with beautiful tunes.
All of my Muslim friends were sunnis as far as i know. My friend used to be the namaz orator too. He also used to sing songs during urs. Still in touch with him thanks to FB.

I still listen to some Sufi songs when I am browsing YouTube. But not too interested in its origins.