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Are you satisfied with Imran Khan's handling of the Asia Bibi crisis?

Are you satisfied with Imran Khan's handling of the Asia Bibi crisis?

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the Great Khan said:
Afghans and the NDS with India..They want to cut short IK's govt and his economic bailout plan..
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Maybe, I am certainly no expert on covert/intelligence operations.

But its difficult for me to buy that so many men are being riled up simply at the behest of external powers. These are thousands of people and they strongly believe in what they stand for. The irony is the mullah brigade have sided with political parties earlier and no eyebrows were raised. Their version of justice and Islam wasn't the work of agencies abroad, and what is more worrying is that they are simply growing by the thousands with time. Imagine the power this mob will hold in a few years time.

This funeral gathering wasn't the job of external agencies!

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Major said:
All these political parties and the army are a joke.

No one is willing to exterminate these guys completely. They just want to do negotiate thats it. THese buffoons dont understand that even if they negotiate today and get the problem solved by monday, the TLP guys will again be taking the city hostage after a few months for a new issue.

People talk about how prestigious our army is and this and that. One of the TLP guys straight forwardly insulted the army and yet they take sit shut and say pleae dont drag us in the Asia case we have nothing to do with it.

PTI supported these guys, now its time they finish them off. But to the PM his seat is more important thus he isn't going to take any risk.

Imran used to bash Mushraffe, atleast that guy got that Lal Masjid encounter done. After that, those lunatics haven't dare to create a mass problem
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That's what protestors (or at least their leaders) want.

You should never allow space for an "us vs. them" or state vs. religion narrative in such countries. They will grab it with both hands and turn the nation upside down.

And let's be honest, it wouldn't just become a state vs. religion issue. It would also lead to countless attacks on innocent minorities.
 
Pathetic and spineless. Not only have they proven to be no different than any party before them, but they've also handed extremists even more power and sent a clear message that Pakistan can't protect their minorities.
 
The only thing that will salvage something out of this fire is a fake news of Assia bibi’s acceptance of Islam.
 
Was waiting for more developments to happen before calling, and here it goes south. They've put her on ECL.
 
Madplayer said:
For muslims Prophet Muhammad (saww) or any other prophet is above criticism because they are considered sinless.

However, i agree that blasphemy laws should be repealed. We shouldnt forget that it was the colonialists who instated the blasphemy law in Indian subcontinent.
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Not everyone is Muslim and not everyone shares that view. Pakistan is democratic. Or so it says it is. It’s not. Could not be further from a democracy.

You speak as if the blasmephy law can’t be repealed but guess what, they don’t want too.
 
CricketDon said:
Not everyone is Muslim and not everyone shares that view. Pakistan is democratic. Or so it says it is. It’s not. Could not be further from a democracy.

You speak as if the blasmephy law can’t be repealed but guess what, they don’t want too.
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I was talking about muslims only. Just like Cristians for whom Jesus is above criticism.
Pakistan is an Islamic republic. They dont claim to be an out and out democracy. At the most it is procedural democracy and not substantive. So lets not even go there.

Blasphemy law cant be repealed at the moment even if they want to. For them to begin trying to even dilute it, they would require the appropriate conditions to exist. The first and foremost condition is educated and employed population. You cant attempt to bring about a drastic change while having anpads and berozgars thronging the streets because their idle attention will be driven towards opposing any change. Think like a statesman, not like a lay man.
 
Puppet PM. Can't expect more from someone who is lauded as a great political leader for his feats on the cricket field. It's the equivalent of winning the toss and inserting the opposition on a green pitch, only to remove all the slips after a couple of overs. Coward.
 
Pakistan can't afford another Lal masjid to be repeated, birthing another generation of jihadis gunning against the state. People advocating the use of force are pretty simplistic.
 
Strike! said:
Pakistan can't afford another Lal masjid to be repeated, birthing another generation of jihadis gunning against the state. People advocating the use of force are pretty simplistic.
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So you're saying putting an innocent person on the ECL and allowing a decision by the supreme court to be appealed is the correct decision? Wah ji kia insaaf hai.

PTI showed weakness. They have failed in handling the situation and they have come out as cowards. For me, that's all fine. I couldn't care less but an a poor innocent person if suffering because of all of this and that is PTI's fault and if they are unable to provide insaaf to people like Asia bibi the whole agenda that they have been promising for the last 20 odd years is a lie.
 
Something said:
So you're saying putting an innocent person on the ECL and allowing a decision by the supreme court to be appealed is the correct decision? Wah ji kia insaaf hai.

PTI showed weakness. They have failed in handling the situation and they have come out as cowards. For me, that's all fine. I couldn't care less but an a poor innocent person if suffering because of all of this and that is PTI's fault and if they are unable to provide insaaf to people like Asia bibi the whole agenda that they have been promising for the last 20 odd years is a lie.
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The review petition is a part of the legal process and they are in their rights to do so.

It's easy to act dismissive and call the government cowards when you in fact can't offer any alternatives. Once again these people prefer blood be spilled and a new age of extremism be given birth. Also the PTI government isn't responsible for the rot that has taken place over the past thirty plus years.
 
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Strike! said:
The review petition is a part of the legal process and they are in their rights to do so.

It's easy to act dismissive and call the government cowards when you in fact can't offer any alternatives. Once again these people prefer blood be spilled and a new age of extremism be given birth. Also the PTI government isn't responsible for the rot that has taken place over the past thirty plus years.
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No, you cannot appeal a decision that has been given by the supreme court. The decision from the Supreme court is considered the final word in the case. So, this agreement to review the decision is not part of the legal process.

Also, I've not said anything about the past 30 years. I'm talking about this case in particular. The fact is that the PTI government has shown to be extremely fragile over and over again. First, it was the case of the Ahmedi scholar (I forget the name) in the Economic Council and his removal and now this.

In the first case it didn't really affect anyone as such and it doesn't matter much however, in this second case an innocent person is suffering. PTI has been promising insaaf yet they are failing to deliver it.

This shows that the writ of the government can be challenged over and over again and they will cave in to demands.
 
“Empty vessels make the most noise”

Plato coined this term in 400 BCE to describe Imran Khan’s political career.
 
Something said:
No, you cannot appeal a decision that has been given by the supreme court. The decision from the Supreme court is considered the final word in the case. So, this agreement to review the decision is not part of the legal process.

Also, I've not said anything about the past 30 years. I'm talking about this case in particular. The fact is that the PTI government has shown to be extremely fragile over and over again. First, it was the case of the Ahmedi scholar (I forget the name) in the Economic Council and his removal and now this.

In the first case it didn't really affect anyone as such and it doesn't matter much however, in this second case an innocent person is suffering. PTI has been promising insaaf yet they are failing to deliver it.

This shows that the writ of the government can be challenged over and over again and they will cave in to demands.
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You are misinformed, a review petition against a supreme court decision is part of the legal system, look it up.

PTI hasn't said they won't release Aasia from prison, they will most likely release her in accordance with the decision, the agreement with TLP said nothing about keeping her in prison.
 
Strike! said:
You are misinformed, a review petition against a supreme court decision is part of the legal system, look it up.

PTI hasn't said they won't release Aasia from prison, they will most likely release her in accordance with the decision, the agreement with TLP said nothing about keeping her in prison.
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Rock and a hard place situation for the government.
 
Mamoon said:
“Empty vessels make the most noise”

Plato coined this term in 400 BCE to describe Imran Khan’s political career.
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Exactly. ‘Hakumat say nay takrana’ and then leaving the country at the mercy of Mullah Rizvi and his followers for three days and then signing that agreement. A total surrender of the state.

All hot air!!
 
RickyG said:
You can’t exterminate 30-40% of your population unfortunately.
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you dont have to exterminate the population. You only have to exterminate the leader and his few buddies thats it.

Abdul Rashid of Lal masjid is a very good example
 
guys now you may finally cast your vote to the poll
 
Major said:
you dont have to exterminate the population. You only have to exterminate the leader and his few buddies thats it.

Abdul Rashid of Lal masjid is a very good example
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Easier said then done, remember what happened in Baluchistan with Bugti. Old Mush is still being blamed for his murder.
 
MenInG said:
Rock and a hard place situation for the government.
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[MENTION=135038]Major[/MENTION] and others dont like IK and wanted the confrontation so that they could claim that resulting deaths are a result of the PTI's failure and the govt needs to be resolved .
 
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InziRules said:
Because lives of people there are worth less for Imran since they don't vote PTI. Got it.
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You are wrong on two fronts; these guys from Rizvi werent his current or ex constituency- hence the 2mn votes for Rizvi, and secondly- your dishonesty shows through because he was called Taliban Khan because he was seen as soft on those guys- again wanting talks.
 
Major said:
you dont have to exterminate the population. You only have to exterminate the leader and his few buddies thats it.

Abdul Rashid of Lal masjid is a very good example
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Yes, when the army killed Abdul Rashid and resulted in hundreds of more terrorists being created, thousands of people dying in the resulting suicide blasts carried out in the name of revenge. What an example to give.
 
Bewal Express said:
You are wrong on two fronts; these guys from Rizvi werent his current or ex constituency- hence the 2mn votes for Rizvi, and secondly- your dishonesty shows through because he was called Taliban Khan because he was seen as soft on those guys- again wanting talks.
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Yes, talks with terrorists, but not with sane people or the IMF
 
Strike! said:
Yes, when the army killed Abdul Rashid and resulted in hundreds of more terrorists being created, thousands of people dying in the resulting suicide blasts carried out in the name of revenge. What an example to give.
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By killing Abdul Rashid hundred more terrorists were created? What????

Bro, when Lal masjid action was not being taken, and the masjid was allowed to do whatever they wanted, weapons were being stored in the mosque. I had a friend who use to go their and he use to tell me how weapons inflow was quite common there.

And lal masjid was known for promoting the ideology of "civil Jihad"

Abdul Rashid and his brother were no different then TLP. They abducted many people in islamabad. They were dealt with once, and never again have the Lal Masjid guys dared to do panga.
 
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Major said:
By killing Abdul Rashid hundred more terrorists were created? What????

Bro, when Lal masjid action was not being taken, and the masjid was allowed to do whatever they wanted, weapons were being stored in the mosque. I had a friend who use to go their and he use to tell me how weapons inflow was quite common there.

And lal masjid was known for promoting the ideology of "civil Jihad"

Abdul Rashid and his brother were no different then TLP. They abducted many people in islamabad. They were dealt with once, and never again have the Lal Masjid guys dared to do panga.
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Read the article I posted above.

According to journalist Deborah Scroggins, the storming of the masjid

became a turning point for Pakistan. ... Many of the militant Pakistanis in Waziristan and on the border with Kashmir had had young relative in the shattered mosque, and they began attacking the army in revenge.[69]

This broke or at least badly damaged the "long standing alliance" between the Deobandi jihadis and the military.[69]

The Lal Masjid siege gave hardliners in Pakistan a rallying point, as well as generating new martyrs (i.e. volunteers to commit suicide bombings) and prompting al-Qaeda, Jaish-e-Muhammad, Lashkar-e-Jhangvi, and the Taliban to launch retaliation attacks in Pakistan. In the next five months suicide bombers committed 56 attacks killing 2729 Pakistanis.[69]

The first attack after the operation against the mosque was on 12 July 2007; two suicide attacks killed six people in northwest Pakistan.[68] Another 28 soldiers were killed when a suicide attacker struck a military convoy in northwest Pakistan near the Afghan border on 14 July.[55] Several terrorist attacks were carried out throughout Pakistan in July.
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https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Lal_Masjid

When you kill one snake two more heads pop up. It's not as simple as you are dictating.
 
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The fact is that there are no right or wrong ways to deal with this situation. The truth is bitter and no one is willing to acknowledge it on this forum.
 
We have not called off protests but have suspended them for the time being. If the appeal result is not according to Sharia, we will be back - Rizvi
 
Major said:
you dont have to exterminate the population. You only have to exterminate the leader and his few buddies thats it.

Abdul Rashid of Lal masjid is a very good example
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Perhaps you were too young to realize what happened after the Lal Masjid incident.
 
I dont necessarily agree with the decision of the govt This agreement has handed power to the molvis and will further embolden them
No govt can afford to look weak and be held to ransom

But a confrontation wouldve not only cost lives but also created a new generation of terrorists and cycles of violnce

A solution needs to be found, one which will weaken the power of the molvis and another which will ensure the safety of asia bibi and the like
 
Angrez Pakistani said:
The fact is that there are no right or wrong ways to deal with this situation. The truth is bitter and no one is willing to acknowledge it on this forum.
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I would start with arresting the TLP leadership and folks who have been identified doing the toor phoor using CCTV. That would put the cat amongst the pigeons. Force this scumbag mullah to come on TV and say he is sorry, Asia was not a 'gustakh' and he was in the wrong. That would essentially end TLP without a bullet being fired.
 
Syed1 said:
I would start with arresting the TLP leadership and folks who have been identified doing the toor phoor using CCTV. That would put the cat amongst the pigeons. Force this scumbag mullah to come on TV and say he is sorry, Asia was not a 'gustakh' and he was in the wrong. That would essentially end TLP without a bullet being fired.
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There are more than one extremist organisations in Pakistan. You can end TLP but what’s to say that the very same ppl who are now part of TLP wouldn’t join Taliban or, worst, ISIS?
 
Angrez Pakistani said:
There are more than one extremist organisations in Pakistan. You can end TLP but what’s to say that the very same ppl who are now part of TLP wouldn’t join Taliban or, worst, ISIS?
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Then the state would step in and ensure meeting with their Maker. Honestly I'm in favour of having every mullah on a registry so government knows their whereabouts at all times. Just like you wont have a dog without a leash we need to leash these mullahs.
 
Syed1 said:
Then the state would step in and ensure meeting with their Maker. Honestly I'm in favour of having every mullah on a registry so government knows their whereabouts at all times. Just like you wont have a dog without a leash we need to leash these mullahs.
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You can do that but it wouldn’t have a long lasting effect. Instead, it would just create the feeling of resentment in a sizeable portion of the society. At the end of the day, it all comes down to who gets the right to interpret religion. Is it the state or is it the zealots who gets to decide what real Islam is? Even if they go the Nazi way and setup concentration camps for these Zealots they aren’t going to win the battle of narratives.
When a state actively participate in demonising and dehumanising minorities, it plays into the hands of the extremists. That’s exactly what the state of Pakistan has done since eons. You don’t have to look far enough to see the evidence. Just look into Pakistan studies books all over Pakistan and you’ll see how our governments have demonised Hindus and radicalised our youth. How they have demonised Bengalis in our textbooks when explaining the fall of Dhaka. Just look at the ppl in media. Look at Ansari Abbasis and Auriya Maqbool Jans of the media. They get the media platform to spew their filth against minorities without any state interruption. I’m not suggesting to kill those extremists. I’m suggesting that the government should abstain from actively taking part in radicalising our youth at their impressionable age.
 
It's funny how people keep referring to Laal Masjid incident whereas the action by the government and the army resolved that matter once and for all. Laal Masjid never happened again.

I ask you, what are you expecting will be the result of the review petition that has been filed? Will she be found guilty and thus resolving this matter once and for all? Or if she is acquitted again, what is stopping these guys from coming out again?
 
Information Minister Fawad Chaudhry said on Saturday the agreement reached between the government and violent protesters who demonstrated against the acquittal of Asia Bibi was "firefighting" and not a permanent solution to the larger problem of extremism.

"We need to take steps against extremism, we need to take steps against such kind of violent protesters and we need to come up with a permanent solution," he told the BBC.

"Right now this is not a cure. This is firefighting, what we are doing," he said, adding that the Pakistan Tehreek-i-Insaf (PTI) government was committed to the cure, which is "the real thing".

Editorial: Another surrender

He defended the government's decision to negotiate with the protesters, who blocked roads and disrupted traffic throughout the country for three days.

"We had two options: either to use force, and when you use force people can be killed. That is not something a state should do... We tried negotiations and (in) negotiations you take something and you leave something."

Chaudhry said the decision on whether or not to bar Asia Bibi from the leaving the country will be taken by a court.

The government will "take all steps necessary" to ensure Bibi's safety, the minister added.

The Tehreek-i-Labbaik Pakistan (TLP) and other religiopolitical parties had launched countrywide protests on Wednesday after the Supreme Court acquitted Bibi, who had been on death row for the past nine years on blasphemy charges.

Last night, the government and the TLP had signed a deal to conclude the latter's nationwide protest. One of the major concessions the government agreed to was to "initiate the legal process" to place Bibi's name on the exit control list (ECL).

The government had also assured the party that it would not oppose a review petition filed against the Supreme Court's judgement in the Asia Bibi blasphemy case. The state further promised to take appropriate legal action to redress any deaths that may have occurred during the protests against the Asia Bibi verdict and to release all people picked up in connection with the protests starting October 30.

The TLP, in turn, only offered an apology "if it hurt the sentiments or inconvenienced anyone without reason".

https://www.dawn.com/news/1443376/g...ting-not-a-cure-to-the-problem-fawad-chaudhry
 
Major said:
did lal masjid folks ever acted like idiots again after that?
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The next decade was probably the worst in terms of law and order in history of Pakistan. I remember from 2007/2008 to 2011/2012 at least every other week there used to be a suicide bomb attack in one of the major cities.
 
Little Master said:
The next decade was probably the worst in terms of law and order in history of Pakistan. I remember from 2007/2008 to 2011/2012 at least every other week there used to be a suicide bomb attack in one of the major cities.
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After which we started Operation Zarb E Azam and it all stopped. Those attacks were primarily linked to TTP who may have used Laal Masjid as an excuse to carry those out but would've done them anyway whether Laal Masjid took place or not.
 
Something said:
After which we started Operation Zarb E Azam and it all stopped. Those attacks were primarily linked to TTP who may have used Laal Masjid as an excuse to carry those out but would've done them anyway whether Laal Masjid took place or not.
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exactly

One thing that people often miss out is that lal masjid itself was promoting teorrism and was keeping weapons.

By taking out rashid and cleaning up the soo called mosque, they had reduced the damage that might had been done in future.

People cannot say that terrorism increased due to Lal Masjid event. Terrorism existed in Pakistan, but problem was our army did not care.

The biggest problem was the Fata area, where Pakistan rule didnt apply.
 
Cant they just capture this so called leader?
Also all these men in the streets dont they have families/ jobs etc?
 
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Not the Naya Pakistan we’d hoped for. 3 days after a defiant & brave speech defending the judiciary, Pakistan’s gov caves in to extremist demands to bar <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/AsiaBibi?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#AsiaBibi</a> from leaving Pak, after she was acquitted of blasphemy- effectively signing her death warrant <a href="https://t.co/YwUpRM8cnu">https://t.co/YwUpRM8cnu</a></p>— Jemima Goldsmith (@Jemima_Khan) <a href="https://twitter.com/Jemima_Khan/status/1058858111346401280?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 3, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
Looking at the 5 point agreement with the Mullahs I don't understand, which part is exactly the government caving in? On the first day, TLP demanded removal of those judges, COAS and IK. None of these have been agreed upon. The judges are still there, COAS is still there and so is IK. Somebody from TLP had already filed a review petition in SC, which is their constitutional right so not exactly the government caving in.

The only area where the government lost a bit of ground was agreeing to take steps on putting Asia Bibi on ECL and releasing the captured protesters. With regards to the release of protesters, they have started a crack down on those who were involved in vandalism. All things considered, it was a very successful negotiation on part of the government without the state actually clashing with protesters which could have easily spiraled into a bigger mess than it already is.
 
Major said:
exactly

One thing that people often miss out is that lal masjid itself was promoting teorrism and was keeping weapons.

By taking out rashid and cleaning up the soo called mosque, they had reduced the damage that might had been done in future.

People cannot say that terrorism increased due to Lal Masjid event. Terrorism existed in Pakistan, but problem was our army did not care.

The biggest problem was the Fata area, where Pakistan rule didnt apply.
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Are you kidding me? Reducing the damage? For the next five years at the very least it felt like I was living in Iraq / Afghanistan. Used to get **** scared even stepping out of the house and going for jumma prayers and eventually ending with massacre of 100+ kids in Peshawar. I used to work on Mall road in Lahore at that time, in those three years there were at least 4 bomb blasts within a mile radius to my work place while I was in the office.
 
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Little Master said:
Looking at the 5 point agreement with the Mullahs I don't understand, which part is exactly the government caving in? On the first day, TLP demanded removal of those judges, COAS and IK. None of these have been agreed upon. The judges are still there, COAS is still there and so is IK. Somebody from TLP had already filed a review petition in SC, which is their constitutional right so not exactly the government caving in.

The only area where the government lost a bit of ground was agreeing to take steps on putting Asia Bibi on ECL and releasing the captured protesters. With regards to the release of protesters, they have started a crack down on those who were involved in vandalism. All things considered, it was a very successful negotiation on part of the government without the state actually clashing with protesters which could have easily spiraled into a bigger mess than it already is.
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So, you're saying that there's nothing wrong with placing an innocent person on the ECL? A person who knows her life is in danger and is trying to apply for asylum. Why oh why would the Mullah's want to prevent her from leaving the country? One can only wonder.

The agreement also resulted in releasing everyone arrested during the protests. So basically, an innocent person will have to suffer through the trouble of going to court all over again whereas those that caused chaos are free to go.

Yep, minorities are so well protected in Pakistan.
 
Little Master said:
Are you kidding me? Reducing the damage? For the next five years at the very least it felt like I was living in Iraq / Afghanistan. Used to get **** scared even stepping out of the house and going for jumma prayers and eventually ending with massacre of 100+ kids in Peshawar. I used to work on Mall road in Lahore at that time, in those three years there were at least 4 bomb blasts within a mile radius to my work place while I was in the office.
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What makes you think that wouldn't have happened had Laal Masjid incident didn't happen. The bomb blasts and the violence that ensued was due to the rise of TTP and not as a direct result of the Laal Masjid incident.

Had the Laal Masjid incident not happened we'd have had terrorists sitting right in the middle of Islamabad with very heavy artillery at their disposal. It could've been much much worse.
 
Something said:
So you're saying putting an innocent person on the ECL and allowing a decision by the supreme court to be appealed is the correct decision? Wah ji kia insaaf hai.

PTI showed weakness. They have failed in handling the situation and they have come out as cowards. For me, that's all fine. I couldn't care less but an a poor innocent person if suffering because of all of this and that is PTI's fault and if they are unable to provide insaaf to people like Asia bibi the whole agenda that they have been promising for the last 20 odd years is a lie.
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She is not on ECL so the final decision as well as review petition is up to Supreme court to decide so government has not given them anything.

The only thing i am disappointed about is how easily their FAKE apology was accepted so hopefully this apology will not allow them to get away with disgusting threats.

As much as i wanted Rizvi and his goons to be taught a lesson, i think it wasn't a practical option.

I think this issue is far from over, there is a lot they can do and will need to handle things lot better when outcome of review petition is announced. This will be lot more crucial than what has happened in the past.
 
Something said:
So, you're saying that there's nothing wrong with placing an innocent person on the ECL? A person who knows her life is in danger and is trying to apply for asylum. Why oh why would the Mullah's want to prevent her from leaving the country? One can only wonder.

The agreement also resulted in releasing everyone arrested during the protests. So basically, an innocent person will have to suffer through the trouble of going to court all over again whereas those that caused chaos are free to go.

Yep, minorities are so well protected in Pakistan.
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It is state's job to protect her and I am sure it will. I do not agree with her name being put on ECL but it is a small compromise from where the protests actually started from. Your second point is futile as the government has already started going after miscreants who damaged public and private property.
 
I think TLP should have been treated like a terrorist organisation after what they said. They can not be a political party and need to be eliminated. Even if it means using force. There is nothing wrong in peaceful protests but once the protests turn violent state has every right to use force and an anti riot squad needed to be put in place to tackle this. This whole event has showed the government does not have faith in both the police and maybe even the army to a certain extent. Imran needs to take hard decisions. For now they have bought themselves some time to figure out what to do in peace but this will get ugly soon again.
 
Guys, there is another dharna coming up. Rizvi has said that he has not cancelled the protests but only suspended them till the supreme court appeal result.
 
shortbread said:
Maybe, I am certainly no expert on covert/intelligence operations.

But its difficult for me to buy that so many men are being riled up simply at the behest of external powers. These are thousands of people and they strongly believe in what they stand for. The irony is the mullah brigade have sided with political parties earlier and no eyebrows were raised. Their version of justice and Islam wasn't the work of agencies abroad, and what is more worrying is that they are simply growing by the thousands with time. Imagine the power this mob will hold in a few years time.

This funeral gathering wasn't the job of external agencies!

View attachment 85082
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whats this pic from? which funeral?
 
Abdullah719 said:
Mumtaz Qadri, I think.
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Getting a crowd out for a funeral is easy. Especially when Gustaakh e rasool (S.A.W) issues arise. But causing violence and then taking advantage of it is a different issue altogether. And foreign agencies do try to take advantage of such problems..
 
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In this thread most of Pakistanis as usual are dancing around the real issue(like rest of the nation), we have been for decade...


Its a Cultural Investment that has gone wrong not a political Issue:

First people need to increase their vocabulary, not everything is politics nor corruption. There is something called culture which everybody invests in, consciously or unconsciously. Sometimes the things you love so passionately have side effects, like they say "Everything that tastes good, is not good for you" ;-)

For most Pakistanis religion is the most important cultural investment, even more important than economical and social survival. I am not sure if that was always like that but definitely it has being since Mid 70s...Side effect of this extra hot religious culture is, you end up divesting out of more important things, Ultra Conservatism is not a success story anywhere in the world, not even in USA(who has more money and power than well anybody else)...Here Ultra Conservative states and culture continue to struggle, could not take benefit of more Digital revolution, still tied to Old economies...

I see a parallel in Gun Culture and Hate for all things non-whites in Certain Conservative Culture in US to God Loving Conservative culture in Pakistan. The more you invest in that culture, more you hate others and less focus on solving your own problems by Science and Tech, you are sort of feeding into Science Hating Culture, they don't go very well together...Science is based on Evidence, Reason, Debate, Religion is based on Faith and Obedience, you need a very different cultural values to gets fruits of one or the other...Some of the faithful keep on arguing passionately, that you can have both at the same time, but there is no evidence that anybody has achieved that with any meaningful success...

Secondly, Bullet/Blood is not answer to any question, which many are suggesting, that is not a surprise, after all Army loving and God loving culture sort of go hand in hand. They both love to use violence as a mean to suppress the opposition, but they forget nation/society/community building is not same as fire fighting. Fire fighting skills are useful in War(destroying communities) not in piece time. There is a reason even US has failed many times with all his Dollars and Military to change the nation, Army(religious or not) is not the tool of choice in 21C to build nations, contrary to again what many Pakistanis believe... Even right now, lot of mess which Pakistan is in culturally, Army is one of the culprit not the answer...

Choice is always with people where to invest in future, you have to let go one, in order to achieve the other. Economic prosperity with Technology of religious is a pipe dream, you can keep investing in that culture, keep getting same results :yk2
 
No compromise on SC verdict in Aasia Bibi case: PM Imran

LAHORE: There will be no compromise on the decision of the Supreme Court of Pakistan, declared Prime Minister Imran Khan in a reference to the acquittal of Aasia Bibi in a blasphemy case and subsequent protests from religious groups against the top court’s verdict.

“If a government does not stand by the decisions of the apex court, the country cannot survive,” asserted PM Imran after addressing the foundation stone-laying ceremony of a shelter home in the provincial capital on Saturday.

The PM said the government stood by the decision of the top court and there would be no compromise on it.
“The rule of law depends on following the verdict of the Supreme Court and if you do not follow the top court’s decision, the law ends in the country,” he maintained.

Nation united to foil conspiracies against FATA merger: PM

Aasia was convicted of blasphemy by a lower court and sentenced to death by hanging in 2010, and the conviction was upheld by the Lahore High Court. However, the Supreme Court acquitted her last month on the basis of insufficient evidence. This triggered countrywide protest sit-ins by the Tehreek-e-Labbaik Pakistan. The sit-ins were called off only after the government and the protesters reached a five-point deal.

The premier, meanwhile, said there was a concept of monarchy in Punjab.

“Ministers had a habit of enjoying luxuries. I decided to nominate Sardar Usman Buzdar as Punjab CM considering his background. He belongs to one of the most deprived districts of Punjab,” said Imran.

He said Buzdar’s house had no electricity, nor was there any hospital in his area. “He [Buzdar] knows what the difficulties are and can work in a better way for the benefit of the common man,” he said.

Referring to the picture of a homeless family in Lahore which recently went viral on social media, the PM underlined that if people did not feel compassionate after seeing such a picture, they could not be considered humans.

“Pakistan does not lack resources, but there is a lack of empathy. We have resources, but are not concerned about the homeless because they are not our voters,” he lamented.

He said it was Mohammad Ali Jinnah and Allama Iqbal’s dream to make Pakistan a model Islamic state, adding that the government had spent the past two months saving the country from default and succeeded.

“Now the government has to concentrate on making Pakistan a true welfare state and the establishment of the shelter home for the homeless people in Lahore is the first step in that direction,” he added.

Imran said he spoke to the Punjab chief minister and decided to allocate five spots to make shelter homes for the homeless people. “These spots are in areas where people arrive from outside the city to seek employment,” he added.

Lauding the Punjab CM, Imran said Buzdar reminded him of the time when he used to select players and they became Wasim Akram and Inzamamul Haq. “Buzdar will also prove to be a good selection, like Waseem Akram and Inzamamul Haq,” he added.

PM Imran calls Malaysia’s Mahathir Mohammad

To a question, the premier said he would speak about corruption allegations on Saturday (today). “You will really enjoy it,” he said.

Earlier, Imran, who was accompanied by the Punjab chief minister, laid the foundation stone for a shelter home near the Lahore Railway Station.

The shelter home would be constructed on one-kanal land of the Punjab government, but the construction would be carried out by the federal government.

The shelter home will provide a roof to 93 men and 27 women. It will also include construction of multi-purpose halls for imparting training and holding public awareness programmes on vital social objectives.

The government aims to build four more shelter homes in other areas, like Data Darbar, Badami Bagh and Thokar Niaz Baig. The government will constitute a board to oversee the functioning of the shelter homes.

https://tribune.com.pk/story/1844651/1-no-compromise-sc-verdict-aasia-bibi-case-pm-imran/
 
Two Christians sentenced to death in Pakistan for blasphemy

https://www.premier.org.uk/News/UK/Two-Christians-sentenced-to-death-in-Pakistan-for-blasphemy

Brothers from Lahore have been sentenced to death after posting on a website in 2011.

Qasir and Amoon are said to have posted disrespectful material on their own website, after which they fled Lahore for four years but then returned.

Their case was heard by the Additional Session judge Javed Iqbal Bosal on 13th December inside a prison due to security reasons and he found them guilty and sentenced them to death.

Both brothers have been in District Jail Jhelum in Punjab province since 2014.

The two men are both married and Qaiser has three children.

The UK group CLAAS (The Centre for Legal Aid, Assistance and Settlement) has decided to challenge the decision before the Lahore High Court Bench as soon as possible.

In blasphemy cases the judges are often under threat from religious fanatic, meaning trial judges frequently convict those accused of blasphemy.

Nasir Saeed Director of CLAAS-UK, said in a statement: “This is a very unfortunate situation as because of threats from hardliners lower courts pass their responsibility to the higher court and then it takes years to prove the accused innocent.

"We have seen this in the recent case of Asia Bibi, who was similarly convicted by the lower court and it took her years to reach to the supreme court to get justice. I am afraid now Qasir and Amoon will have to wait years to get justice.

“It is a sad reality that the present government has no intention even to talk about or to take steps to stop the ongoing misuse of the blasphemy law.

“Pakistani President Dr Arif Alvi has already said that the government would not amend the law. This means the killing of innocent people will continue despite growing opposition to the law around the world.

“While Imran Khan who has earned much appreciation from the world for his recent decision of opening the Kartarpur corridor for Indian Sikhs has no plans for Pakistan’s own minorities, who are already scared of his reiterated statements of making Pakistan a Medina like state.

“Very recently his statement that there is no mention of Jesus in history, hurt the feelings of Christians not just in Pakistan, but throughout the world.”
 
Canada has granted her asylum.

The Madinah state could not take care of her. Yet another feather in the cap of this failing government.
 
Aasia Bibi has left Pakistan: FO source

Aasia Bibi, a Christian woman who was acquitted by the Supreme Court in a blasphemy case last year, has left Pakistan, a well-placed Foreign Office (FO) source told DawnNewsTV on Wednesday.

"Aasia Bibi has left the country. She is a free person and travelled on her independent will," the source said.

The source did not specify what her destination was.

Aasia Bibi was acquitted of blasphemy charges by the Supreme Court on October 31, 2018, after spending nine years in jail on death row. The ruling sparked country-wide protests by religio-political groups.

After she was released from a Multan women's prison on November 7 last year, she was flown to Islamabad via special aircraft, and then taken to an undisclosed location amid tight security.

The authorities remained tight-lipped about her movement and whereabouts for security reasons.

Qari Salam, the complainant in the case, filed a petition seeking review of the judgement in January this year, which the Supreme Court dismissed on merit.

https://www.dawn.com/news/1481011/aasia-bibi-has-left-pakistan-fo-source
 
Mamoon said:
Canada has granted her asylum.

The Madinah state could not take care of her. Yet another feather in the cap of this failing government.
Click to expand...

Agreed. The always winning succesful Noora government of who turned Lahore into Paris would've protected her. Well done Mamoon, you've out done yourself.
 
Asim_khan said:
Agreed. The always winning succesful Noora government of who turned Lahore into Paris would've protected her. Well done Mamoon, you've out done yourself.
Click to expand...

PTI’s failures cannot be justified by highlighting the failures of other parties. You are right in pointing out that PMLN wouldn’t have protected her either, but that doesn’t justify why the Madinah state failed.

PTI supporters need to overcome this mentality of talking about other parties when their leadership fails to deliver.
 
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