Arguments for and against a Mohammad Asif recall

Junaids

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We all know the context. But different arguments are scattered across multiple threads and so this one is intended to be the place to make those arguments.

Mohammad Asif was banned by the ICC from playing domestic or international cricket from 1 September 2010 to 1 September 2015, with the ICC directing that the PCB provide him with a full rehabilitation within that 5 year period. This ban was for spotfixing 1 no-ball in 2010, but the ICC accepted that his role in the fix was less than that of Mohammad Amir or Salman Butt and the ICC accepted that he received no payment or other reward.

The PCB then prevented him from playing the 2015-16 First Class season on the basis that it had not complied with the ICC direction that it provide Asif with a full rehabilitation program during his ban.

Since that time the entire basis of the convictions, both cricketing and criminal, has been seriously undermined. The convictions were entirely based on video evidence provide by Mazhar Mahmood, the "Fake Sheikh" journalist, who is now himself in prison for falsifying similar evidence in other cases.

The ICC recorded in its 2010 cricket tribunal's findings that Mohammad Asif had a "good record". But we all know better. Don't we?

We all know that he failed a drug test alongside Shoaib Akhtar in 2006-07, and was initially banned for 1 year (with Shoaib Akhtar banned for 2 years) but that this conviction was overturned on appeal, with the conviction being struck out entirely in favour of a finding of "Not Guilty".

He also failed an IPL drug test in 2008 and was given a 1 year ban which the ICC originally intended to extend to apply worldwide, until it was given legal advice that the IPL drug policy was unlawful because it did not comply with WADA regulations. The IPL ban was then unilaterally extended to Pakistan selection by the incoming PCB chief Mr Ijaz Butt, but without any hearing, trial or appeal process. Asif could not appeal because this was an executive decision, not a guilty verdict. And Pakistan had an almost empty calendar anyway for the next year.

In short, we all know that Mohammad Asif had two failed drug tests and a spotfixing ban. But one of the failed drug tests led to the PCB finding him not guilty, the IPL drug ban was never extended beyond the IPL by the ICC because of the IPL drug code's own non-compliance, and the spotfixing conviction was made on the basis of evidence provided by a journalist who is now in prison for falsifying identical evidence in other cases.

You can argue that Mohammad Asif is either very lucky to have only 1 recognized recorded conviction or you can argue that the incompetence or assistance of others has made him into the man against whom nothing ever seems to stick.

So what are the cricketing arguments for and against his recall:

1. ARGUMENTS IN FAVOUR OF A RECALL

a) Asif is the best tall fast-medium bowler that Pakistan has ever had. He is economical, skillful, and does not rely on pace so his age of almost 34 should matter no more than it did for McGrath, Walsh or Ambrose. And the only developing young bowler in this style is Ehsan Adil, who is going nowhere fast.

b) Asif has proved in this year's domestic First Class season that he is exactly the same bowler he was before. Same skills, same pace, and better results: 15 wickets at 21.66, compared with a pre-ban domestic First Class average of 24.66.

c) The right-arm fast bowlers who replaced him in the national team are no youngsters themselves and have had 75 months to secure the position vacated by Mohammad Asif, but they aren't good enough to do so.

d) The other quick bowlers doing well in domestic First Class cricket have had the same 75 months to take the place vacated by Asif, but haven't been good enough to. Tabish Khan is almost 32 and has failed to do so, while Mir Hamza is 24 and is more a competitor for other left-armers like Mohammad Amir, Rahat Ali and Junaid Khan.

e) On 14 July the PCB Chairman Shaharyar Khan announced that Asif and Salman Butt will be selected if they "break down the door" with their performances. Mohammad Asif has: not just with the video footage which has gone viral but by single-handedly bowling WAPDA into the QEA Final with his spell of 3-0-3-3 when his team only had 55 runs left to defend.

f) Mohammad Asif is the most thoughtful fast bowler that Pakistan has ever had. Surely his advice would help young fast bowlers to develop faster.

g) Has Pakistan got another fast bowler who can turn the screw on the run rate and dry it up completely?

CRICKETING ARGUMENTS AGAINST HIS RECALL

1. Mohammad Asif is almost 34. Even if he lasts a couple of years - he has far less wear and tear on his body than contemporaries like Anderson and Steyn - does it help to pick a veteran like him?

Surely the answer is "you can't seriously say that and then pick Sohail Khan or Tabish Khan".

2. Is he fit enough to play international cricket again?

Maybe, maybe not. But if you accept that he is good enough, then shouldn't his fitness regime and workload be managed by the national team? Can't he be rotated in and out of Tests to keep him fit?

3. Is he good enough in terms of his skills and pace to play Test cricket?

The answer to this is obviously a resounding "Yes". The footage shows that his skills remain intact and that his pace remains where it always was - around that of Vernon Philander.


4. Has he done enough in domestic cricket?

He has taken his wickets at an average of 21.66 compared with 24.66 before his ban. He has bowled WAPDA into the QEA Final when they were staring elimination in the face until his spell of 3-0-3-3.

5. Shouldn't clean cricketers like Tabish Khan be ahead of him in line for selection?

Why on earth would they be? Tabish Khan is 32 next week. He had 6 years and 3 months to secure himself a place in the team while Asif was first legally banned and then obstructed from playing for Pakistan. If he wasn't good enough to get into the team then, why should he leapfrog a player like Asif who is of proven international class?

MORAL ARGUMENTS AGAINST HIS RECALL

1. A lawyer or an accountant would never get a job again after being banned by his professional body. Why is Asif any different?

Firstly, this same argument would require a life ban for Misbah-ul-Haq, who was banned just two weeks ago for a much more recent offence.

Secondly, the opposition aren't going to refuse to select their own previously-banned or punished players. From Shane Warne to Mark Waugh to Marlon Samuels to Graham Gooch to Terry Alderman, other international teams have always picked their players once their bans end.

2. What would the impact be on the team?

The ICC answered this themselves in section 231 of the Tribunal's findings when they banned Asif.

In the words of the ICC: "Repentant sinners have in other areas, including the sporting, made the best teachers".

There is a clear moral benefit to not shortening a player's ban and rushing him back early from a ban. But that is not the case here.

Quite the opposite, actually. It's a terrible message to send players to say "I know that X is eligible for selection and better than you, but we are going to pick you because we like you more".
 
Even if he is the cleanest cricketer on the planet, who has been unfairly treated by PCB, he is not flying to Australia.

You can write eulogies about him, ending with a heart rending encore.

Bottom line is, he is not going to be picked.

You would do better to expend your energy and frustration on some other topic, seeing you have brilliant creative and writing skills.
 
I'm glad you've opened this thread and cleared misconceptions regarding Asif and his so called offenses. There have been far bigger offenders in our team but he always gets the bad rap. Anyways, I want Pakistan team to win matches overseas (not just UAE phattas) and that can happen only when we have a strong and competitive fast bowling pair on par with other teams. Amir despite decent performance is suffering because of weak bowling partner. Asif is currently the best right arm fast bowler we have and the ideal bowling partner for Amir. We need him especially for series in Australia as no bowler has been able to replace Asif despite the six year gap. If PCB ignores him it will be our loss not his.
 
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Personally no, but this isn't against him because of his past. Its because we got to have an eye on the future for the team. Will be able to perform for Pakistan in 2019 ICC World Cup. We've got plenty of youngsters performing in the domestic circuit that deserve a call up but unfortunately have been overlooked.
 
I'm glad you've opened this thread and cleared misconceptions regarding Asif and his so called offenses. There have been far bigger offenders in our team but he always gets the bad rap. Anyways, I want Pakistan team to win matches overseas (not just UAE phattas) and that can happen only when we have a strong and competitive fast bowling pair on par with other teams. Amir despite decent performance is suffering because of weak bowling partner. Asif is currently the best right arm fast bowler we have and the ideal bowling partner for Amir. We need him especially for series in Australia as no bowler has been able to replace Asif despite the six year gap. If PCB ignores him it will be our loss not his.

No doubt about that, though there are some ppl here who think guys like Imran Khan are better than Asif!
However its not wise to bring Asif all of a sudden as it will adversely effect team unity.Also, Asif's inclusion cannot save Pak from a certain test defeat.
 
Would rather see Mir Hamza, 4 FC games is not a big enough sample size, there is no rush, at the pace he bowls he can be selected at 36 and have the same performances. Give him more time.
 
Would rather see Mir Hamza, 4 FC games is not a big enough sample size, there is no rush, at the pace he bowls he can be selected at 36 and have the same performances. Give him more time.

It's not an either/or question.

Pakistan already has lots of decent left-arm quicks and Mir Hamza is competing with them for a position.

The only three competitors for 1-2 Test right-arm fast bowling quicks are Sohail Khan (who averages 40+), Imran Khan (who is as slow as Asif but with none of the skill) and Hasan Ali (whose figures in this year's QEA of 18 wickets at 23.44 are worse than Asif).

If 4 matches isn't a big enough sample size, then Hasan Ali can't be selected either!

Which ignores the problem. The First Test v Australia is in 8 days. There isn't time to assemble a bigger sample size.

Pakistan has a choice.

EITHER
1) Pick Mohammad Asif (aged 33) with 106 Test wickets at an average of 24.36

OR
2) Pick Sohail Khan (aged 32) with 24 Test wickets at an average of 41.41.

You get what you choose.

You can choose to pick the inferior bowler, or you can pick the better bowler.
 
It's not an either/or question.

Pakistan already has lots of decent left-arm quicks and Mir Hamza is competing with them for a position.

The only three competitors for 1-2 Test right-arm fast bowling quicks are Sohail Khan (who averages 40+), Imran Khan (who is as slow as Asif but with none of the skill) and Hasan Ali (whose figures in this year's QEA of 18 wickets at 23.44 are worse than Asif).

If 4 matches isn't a big enough sample size, then Hasan Ali can't be selected either!

Which ignores the problem. The First Test v Australia is in 8 days. There isn't time to assemble a bigger sample size.

Pakistan has a choice.

EITHER
1) Pick Mohammad Asif (aged 33) with 106 Test wickets at an average of 24.36

OR
2) Pick Sohail Khan (aged 32) with 24 Test wickets at an average of 41.41.

You get what you choose.

You can choose to pick the inferior bowler, or you can pick the better bowler.

Sohail Khan averages around 30 since his comeback and has given some match winning spells - compared to Amir who averages close to 38. Also he averages 20+ with the bat and is somehow playing the role of a pace bowling allrounder that you always wanted for Pakistan. (Mind you Asif cannot hold the bat to save his life...will average 5 with the bat and mot probably will average 2-3 from now on since he lacks practice.
 
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Sir Richard Hadlee's Test Record after the Age of 33 years and 352 days :)
 

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Courtney Walsh's Test Record after the age of 33 years and 352 days :)
 

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As an Australian I hope Asif does get rushed out to Australia for the series, our batsmen would love it.
 
I can't understand Misbah's part in OP...pls clarify
A poster in a different thread stated that no professional company (eg law company) would hire or rehire an employee who had been given a ban in his profession.

This was used as an argument for why Asif should not be picked even though his ban has been completely served.

So I pointed out that if that standard applied, then Misbah had to be excluded as he was banned as recently as last week.

My own opinion is that neither player has a current ban, so both should be considered eligible.
 
his height, bounce, swing and seam movement will trouble the inexperienced Aussie lineup for sure... Asif, Amir Wahab, Sohail would be the best four man pace attack to go with at the moment...
 
I would take him back in an instant. Personally, my attitude is that you pick your best players to win a match, its as simple as that. I think the primary objective in sport is to win at all costs, moral values, good behaviour and good sportsmanship can all take a backseat.

End of the day, you are judged on what you win, not the amount of fans you have on your side by showing good values.

Asif would clearly improve our team and therefore needs to be recalled asap. Its easy for opposition fans to say he should never be selected, but if they had such an amazing talent waiting in the wings, I am sure they would change their attitude if the team was under performing.
 
Personally I think the only thing holding him back is age. If he was 5 years younger I am certain that he would be recalled.
 
There is no guarantee that he will perform on his return and we don't know how his body will cope with bowling 30 plus overs per test.
 
Even if he is the cleanest cricketer on the planet, who has been unfairly treated by PCB, he is not flying to Australia.

You can write eulogies about him, ending with a heart rending encore.

Bottom line is, he is not going to be picked.

You would do better to expend your energy and frustration on some other topic, seeing you have brilliant creative and writing skills.

Agree... I don't know why people are dying to see him again. He was a great bowler ( not on flat pitches) 5 six years ago. If pakistan keep bringing back old geezer ... then there will be another article how pakistan doesn't pick "new talent". we need to stop looking in the past and build for the future.

On the side note, Pakistan didn't want many series in the past in Australia when names like waqar ,wasim saqlain were there... there is no guarantee that asif will create history. Bring young blood and players who are hungry for runs and wickets.
 
Whats with these arguments on Asif's age? Sohail Khan and Irfan debuted at the age of 31. Wahab's real age is above 30 as well. Asif's fitness is better than these guys.
 
His record in Australia. Even in 2010 at his peak, was just about ok except when the Sydney pitch had lot of assistance for bowlers.
 
Gilly you have no idea how capable he is on his day, he will eat renshaw, maddinson alive, just ask kevin peterison
 
It's not an either/or question.

Pakistan already has lots of decent left-arm quicks and Mir Hamza is competing with them for a position.

The only three competitors for 1-2 Test right-arm fast bowling quicks are Sohail Khan (who averages 40+), Imran Khan (who is as slow as Asif but with none of the skill) and Hasan Ali (whose figures in this year's QEA of 18 wickets at 23.44 are worse than Asif).

If 4 matches isn't a big enough sample size, then Hasan Ali can't be selected either!

Which ignores the problem. The First Test v Australia is in 8 days. There isn't time to assemble a bigger sample size.

Pakistan has a choice.

EITHER
1) Pick Mohammad Asif (aged 33) with 106 Test wickets at an average of 24.36

OR
2) Pick Sohail Khan (aged 32) with 24 Test wickets at an average of 41.41.

You get what you choose.

You can choose to pick the inferior bowler, or you can pick the better bowler.

Ok then I'll choose Mohammad Abbas.
 
The guy isn't fit and has admitted himself that he needs another season before he's ready for international cricket but keep on writing essays about it because you're too proud to admit you were wrong.
 
Move on from Asif, guy crossed his limits with the spot fixing, enough from him.

Twice guilty for drugs, then spot fixing and yet you allow him to return.

By allowing Asif you are doing injustice to Umar Akmal and AHmed SHezad. Because no matter what wrong those 2 do, corruption in cricket is crossing the line.

Asif would turn out to be another Shoaib Akhtar off the field. We made a mistake by allowing Akhtar to play even after his off the field antics, we shouldn't do the same with Asif here. Sheryar is a smart man, he had to bare Akhtar, i'm sure he won't make the same mistake

also i hate how people give ridiculous examples of other jobs when talking about cricket just to prove their point. Its like comparing apples and oranges
 
"bowled his team to the qea final"
that is a slight exaggeration.
he got out the number 7 bat and 2 tail enders.
you have seen our international tail enders so dont think too much about our domestic tail enders
 
No for and against.

If he is performing at domestic level, he deserves a return.

If he isn't, then no return.
 
Pakistan has a choice.

EITHER
1) Pick Mohammad Asif (aged 33) with 106 Test wickets at an average of 24.36

OR
2) Pick Sohail Khan (aged 32) with 24 Test wickets at an average of 41.41.

You get what you choose.

You can choose to pick the inferior bowler, or you can pick the better bowler.

SOhail Khan's debut match wasn't good, thats why his avg is high. His avg was above 150 when he was about to play in England, and what happened after those 5 wickets is history

If you wana use stats, use them properly, dont use them as only because they promote your agenda of defending one player
 
Even if he is selected there is no guarantee that we will win the series. I don't care if he comes back or not I have forgiven him for what he's done but just be prepared for the fact he may not be the same bowler. Also I understand those who oppose his return. Junaids can try and defend his previous mistakes but fact is he has made errors which most countries and fans won't easily forgive
 
SOhail Khan's debut match wasn't good, thats why his avg is high. His avg was above 150 when he was about to play in England, and what happened after those 5 wickets is history

If you wana use stats, use them properly, dont use them as only because they promote your agenda of defending one player
Sohail Khan series-by-series performances:

Debut v Sri Lanka 2008-09: 0 wickets so no average
In Zimbabwe 2011: 1 wicket @ 81.00
In England 2016: 13 wickets @ 25.00
v West Indies 2016-17: 3 wickets @ 52.33
In New Zealand 2016-17: 7 wickets @ 38.14

It's not a case of a bad debut ruining his record.

It's a case of a terrible record except for 2 good Tests in England.
 
Terry Alderman's return after a long ban........

People on this forum might be interested in this case, as it has strong echoes of a case familiar to us all.

As you probably are aware, Terry Alderman was a tall medium-fast bowler in the 125-135K pace range who turned his back on his country in his late twenties and accepted a 3 year ban in return for playing in Apartheid South Africa. This ban was mandated at senior government levels by the Commonwealth Heads of Governments' Gleneagles Agreement, as representative contact with the Apartheid state was considered to be unacceptable.

Here are the key dates and statistics.

Terry Alderman pre-ban record: 79 wickets in 22 Tests at an average of 32.87
Mohammad Asif pre-ban record: 106 wickets in 23 Tests at an average of 24.36

Alderman banned for 3 years aged 29.7 years.
Asif banned for 5 years aged 27.9 years.

Alderman recalled immediately upon ban ending at age 32.7 years.
Asif yet to be recalled since ban ended at age 32.9 years.

Alderman then took 91 wickets in 19 Tests at an average of 22.34 post-ban.
Asif yet to be selected post-ban.

Am I alone in finding the parallels to be extraordinary? And it is striking that Alderman was recalled by Australia as soon as his ban ended, in the 4th Test of a 5 Test series.
 
Terry Alderman Test record when banned: 79 wickets in 22 Tests at an average of 32.87
Terry Alderman Final Test record: 170 Test wickets in 41 Tests at an average of 27.17
 
Ok then I'll choose Mohammad Abbas.
Have you seen the guy bowl?

He was atrocious in the Pakistan Cup. He bowls in the 130-135 range (probably slower) and seams the odd delivery, and that's about it.

He doesn't offer anything on a flat wicket.
 
and im assuming he still played domestic during the ban?
http://cricketarchive.com/Archive/Players/1/1644/f_Bowling_by_Season.html

rest it, first it was amir now its asif.

next you would be vouching for butt.

Yes, certainly.

I find it bizarre that Pakistan is going into a series in Australia - where even Graeme Smith got his hand broken - with two openers and a rookie who has never played a Test and has no off-side game at all. That sounds like a suicide mission, and it was revealing that Arthur didn't trust Sharjeel enough to play him at Hamilton.

Meanwhile Pakistan's Greatest Batsman of All Time in Australia (minimum 6 Tests) is playing the QEA Final at home at the same time.

To me that is just nuts. Surely the GOAT batsman should be the reserve opener on tour.

There seems to be an ever-shifting set of goalposts between cricketing reasons and moral reasons.

On cricketing grounds, Asif and Butt are in. But then they seem to be disqualified on moral grounds, even though Amir took money and Asif didn't!

It was initially the inconsistency and the double standards which were feeding this neverending debate. But now it is being perpetuated by the fact that Shaharyar Khan told Asif that he would be selected if her performed, and he has performed BETTER in QEA than before his ban.....yet he is somehow not in the squad.
 
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People on this forum might be interested in this case, as it has strong echoes of a case familiar to us all.

As you probably are aware, Terry Alderman was a tall medium-fast bowler in the 125-135K pace range who turned his back on his country in his late twenties and accepted a 3 year ban in return for playing in Apartheid South Africa. This ban was mandated at senior government levels by the Commonwealth Heads of Governments' Gleneagles Agreement, as representative contact with the Apartheid state was considered to be unacceptable.

Here are the key dates and statistics.

Terry Alderman pre-ban record: 79 wickets in 22 Tests at an average of 32.87
Mohammad Asif pre-ban record: 106 wickets in 23 Tests at an average of 24.36

Alderman banned for 3 years aged 29.7 years.
Asif banned for 5 years aged 27.9 years.

Alderman recalled immediately upon ban ending at age 32.7 years.
Asif yet to be recalled since ban ended at age 32.9 years.

Alderman then took 91 wickets in 19 Tests at an average of 22.34 post-ban.
Asif yet to be selected post-ban.

Am I alone in finding the parallels to be extraordinary? And it is striking that Alderman was recalled by Australia as soon as his ban ended, in the 4th Test of a 5 Test series.

While he was banned, Alderman took 250+ wickets@23 playing FC cricket in Aus , England and South Africa! Took 98 and 75 wickets in '86 and '88 county seasons. Wonder why you omitted this fact when saying he was recalled immediately after his ban ended.
 
A tour of Australia is not the time to bring back an old quick who hasn't bowled in internationals for over six years.

He should have been picked for West Indies or perhaps New Zealand, but he is too much of an unknown quantity now to pick for such an important tour.
 
I do not understand if Amir can play , why not Asif ?

He would have played ahead of Amir in UK, had he not been 35+ now. Also, his past trouble making doesn't help. I am not going about fixing, dope ban or Dubai airport issue - but, if I write about his "habits", mods will get busy & that's not acceptable for any pacer, no matter how skilled you are.

Besides, I am not sure how many days he can survive in an Aussie Test - had he played full season, I could have got the confidence, but he had a 2 months break just for the work load of 3 FC matches & probably around 100 overs, in domestics when most Internationals put less efforts.
 
Alderman was not called back due to his reputation.
 
Thanks [MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION]. Read the thread now. Looks like [MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] is doing a lot of misrepresentation and cherry picking of facts and stats.
I disagree.

I would say that Terry Alderman was a much older 32.7 year old when his ban ended than Mohammad Asif was as a 32.9 year old precisely BECAUSE during Alderman's ban his body bowled 2500 First Class overs.
 
Meanwhile Pakistan's Greatest Batsman of All Time in Australia (minimum 6 Tests) is playing the QEA Final at home at the same time.

To me that is just nuts. Surely the GOAT batsman should be the reserve opener on tour.

What do you think about Pakistan's Greatest Batsman of All Time in Australia taking over Misbah's job in future if not in Aus? Should Butt come back as captain and lead Pakistan for few years.
 
I disagree.

I would say that Terry Alderman was a much older 32.7 year old when his ban ended than Mohammad Asif was as a 32.9 year old precisely BECAUSE during Alderman's ban his body bowled 2500 First Class overs.

I wonder, why you missed this "deadly clue" at first time, when you were trying to convince that Alderman was barred to use any ICC or it's affiliates training facilities, any tournament arranged by them for 3 years & then directly came to take on WI in 4th Test:)

Why dragging boss? - you have to fix one point : either it's good for a fast bowler to keep playing in FC or OR it's good for a 33 years old pacer to sit idle for 6 years, so that his body doesn't get older with the bowling load. It can't be in both - please come with one argument, I'll answer on that.
 
He is the only hope for Pakistan's current lot of dismal medium pacers, he along with Yasir can give the bowling attack a push atleast for 2 years
 
What do you think about Pakistan's Greatest Batsman of All Time in Australia taking over Misbah's job in future if not in Aus? Should Butt come back as captain and lead Pakistan for few years.
I'm totally opposed.

I'm perfectly happy for formerly banned players to serve their country as players.

But I would not give them any position of office. I don't even think Salman Butt should captain WAPDA.
 
I wonder, why you missed this "deadly clue" at first time, when you were trying to convince that Alderman was barred to use any ICC or it's affiliates training facilities, any tournament arranged by them for 3 years & then directly came to take on WI in 4th Test:)

Why dragging boss? - you have to fix one point : either it's good for a fast bowler to keep playing in FC or OR it's good for a 33 years old pacer to sit idle for 6 years, so that his body doesn't get older with the bowling load. It can't be in both - please come with one argument, I'll answer on that.
I didn't say Terry Alderman did nothing for three Years. I said he was banned from international cricket.

In my opinion, an express bowler like Shoaib Akhtar or Waqar Younis would be permanently damaged by a long ban.

But a bowler like Asif or McGrath would not be damaged, and rather would last longer due to the reduced wear and tear.

I'd cite two examples from World Cup Football - Paolo Rossi and Roger Milla. They came back as good as ever.
 
I didn't say Terry Alderman did nothing for three Years. I said he was banned from international cricket.

In my opinion, an express bowler like Shoaib Akhtar or Waqar Younis would be permanently damaged by a long ban.

But a bowler like Asif or McGrath would not be damaged, and rather would last longer due to the reduced wear and tear.

I'd cite two examples from World Cup Football - Paolo Rossi and Roger Milla. They came back as good as ever.

Good, you have gone to the wear & tear route - 6 years of total isolation is better for Asif as it has preserved his body.

Boss, sometimes I get a bit upset when you try brainwash logic to establish your agenda. First Rossi was banned from football in 1979 for 3 years, which was reduced to two & he returned to Seria A, for 1981 season for Juve & won the title for them before being called for WC. Besides, he was not even 26 then, at his prime. Milla is among those few who had a long durability, may be for his west African gin. But, he was a regular starter in French league till '90 WC, then kept playing regular as pro in Cameroon league till WC 1994. In fact, he kept playing till 1996 in Malaya league for his exceptional physique & disciplined life. These are exceptions - you can't use as example. On contrary, look at super genius like Maradona, Platini, Fat Ronaldo or Baggio - after 30, once they had an injury great, just wasn't the same player after return.

YOU said, Alderman was banned for 3 years & Aussies picked him immediately after his ban was over. I am also saying the same - but, unless me (& few others) mentioned that footnote, your say was a misleading. Terry wasn't called back for his 41 wickets in 81 Ashes - he was called back for his 300+ FC wickets at 23, during that ban period & for him being the best bowler of 1988-89 Shield summer. He proved that his skills are intact & his body was ready - ignoring fitness part, it's not like Asif's 16 (or may be that 3-0-3-3) is almost equal to Alderman's 300 wicket............. Hope it doesn't end up proving Alderman would have been better bowler at return had he been isolated for those 3 years.

Regarding Mac, it's purely your fantasy - another wishful thinking; you can't say that with 6 years total ban his skills would have been same - that unique metronome didn't even miss 6 weeks at stress. The closest 3 bowlers in history with Asif (In terms of type) are probably Fazal, Bedsar & Hadlee, may be Truman as well, with a bit of pace (in 50s standard, when 135KM often blew like Typhoon) - probably. at least 20 times you have tried to prove that all 4 of them were super fit, because of so many overs bowled in FC level - this one I accept though, fast bowlers remain sharp by bowling in match condition; Imran said it several times that he could manage to change his action & increase pace for those 1000 overs bowled in a County season - that's universal truth, for that Hadlee kept playing for Notts till the season he retired - it can't be opposite to fit in Asif here.

Anyway, I see lots of PAK posters are willing to risk Asif with his questionable fitness - I won't; because I have seen PAK losing countless matches, even tournaments for their key bowler limping out mid series, match or even spell. He is at least 36 & failed to play 2/3rd of the soft FC season, where daily work load is 18 overs max.

Unless, Asif can prove that he can survive 50 overs in a 4 bowler strategy with his full pace, I won't pick him even for nets - because he'll fake his fitness in nets by putting less stress on body - Asif at 120KM can bring the best dancers out of those current UAE masters, but that will create a false hope; he won't do any dodo to players that play Josh Hazzlewood in nets, unless he can maintain 134KM average.
 
[MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION].

You keep missing a crucial point.

The alternative Pakistan right-arm pacers are so monumentally rubbish that Pakistan has gone into the warm-up match for the First Test with three left-arm quicks and a slow left-arm bowler.

It's like a self-destructive conspiracy to create rough for Nathan Lyon to bowl out Pakistan!
 
The biggest arguments against him would be his age. At 34 years old and after 5 years of break people are living in a fantasy world if the expect him to run through sides now
 
[MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION].

You keep missing a crucial point.

The alternative Pakistan right-arm pacers are so monumentally rubbish that Pakistan has gone into the warm-up match for the First Test with three left-arm quicks and a slow left-arm bowler.

It's like a self-destructive conspiracy to create rough for Nathan Lyon to bowl out Pakistan!

No, I have mentioned that several times - PAK can't go with 3 left-arm pacers, backed by a leggi against 6/7 Lefti. Even in my last post (Nawaz over Asad), I reiterated that with explanation. But, taking a bowler, 6 years out of game with wrong side of age & past bad records of recreational staffs, is not the solution. This was created by incompetent Selectors & a rigid Captain, otherwise there are few great prospects that could have been tried in last 6 years instead of recycling same bunch of 4/5 lefties.

Tabish Khan might not be solution, but right-arm pacers like Pasha, Abbas, Jamal, Rana could have been tried in this 6/7 years, even Sohail should have been called 5 years back - they went for Imran, Rauf, Cheema, Tanvir, Sami. Even, for this ANZ tours, there are fantastic young prospects like Hasan, Hamza; all-rounders like Amad, Fahim, Yamin who had been bowling well for last couple of years - on top of that at least 4/5 U21 right-arm Pacers I can name will have better show than Imran or Sohail from his 3rd spell can give. You try to justify that PAK hasn't produced any replacement in 7 years - which is absolutely wrong - PAK hasn't tried to replace Asif with proper prospects. You have to add few years with PAK players (more or less through-out South Asia, may be Lanka is better, but not perfect), therefore any pacer has to be brought into national setup within 2/3 years of FC debut - Khan used to do even earlier; oblate, PCB has stressed to 30 years level. This guy Hamza will do better than almost every one there - if not with wickets, at least he won't look like Robin Singh after 3rd spell - he might get his cap in 2020, when he'll be officially 28 .........

You can't solve one wrong by another one - let Asif bowl, 250-300 overs without breaking down, he'll be my first name in list - but now his durability is 35 overs/match at max, that too in domestics with 18 overs/day.
 
b) Asif has proved in this year's domestic First Class season that he is exactly the same bowler he was before. Same skills, same pace, and better results: 15 wickets at 21.66, compared with a pre-ban domestic First Class average of 24.66.

c) The right-arm fast bowlers who replaced him in the national team are no youngsters themselves and have had 75 months to secure the position vacated by Mohammad Asif, but they aren't good enough to do so.

d) The other quick bowlers doing well in domestic First Class cricket have had the same 75 months to take the place vacated by Asif, but haven't been good enough to. Tabish Khan is almost 32 and has failed to do so, while Mir Hamza is 24 and is more a competitor for other left-armers like Mohammad Amir, Rahat Ali and Junaid Khan.

e) On 14 July the PCB Chairman Shaharyar Khan announced that Asif and Salman Butt will be selected if they "break down the door" with their performances. Mohammad Asif has: not just with the video footage which has gone viral but by single-handedly bowling WAPDA into the QEA Final with his spell of 3-0-3-3 when his team only had 55 runs left to defend.
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this is utter bs, and whenever you're challenged on it, you fail to respond with anything sensible.

he has totaly failed to perform both in terms of fitness and in terms of performance. it is patently asinine to choose a payer based on a few deliveries, or a few shots. its like your ridiculous love affair and repetitive droning on about jaahid when he performed in england against a less than school club side sri lanka a this summer. lo and behold he has done jack since he returned to pakistan.

"what on earth is this? he has satisfied performance conditions because of four games??? what is this nonsense? and this game - taking out numbers 7, 10 and 11 is some kind of international recall type of performance, when his opening bowling partner took out both openers and arguably the best fc batsman in pakistan?

1) he wasnt fit enough to pay half the games in the tournament
2) he has underperformed both his own teammates and more than half of the bowlers in the tournament

= he is nowhere near ready for selection. he absolutely has not satisfied performance conditions, more so he has failed them hands down. - See more at: http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/showthread.php?252073-What-more-must-Mohammad-Asif-do&p=8978961#post8978961"

"
Quote Originally Posted by Junaids View Post
Who are the batsmen facing to prepare them for the bowling of Josh Hazlewood?

Whether or not he gets in the Test side, he should be bowling for ninety minutes each day to your batsmen. There is only Asif and Ehsan Adil who can do that. And neither has been selected.
rubbish. how do you know that asif is bowling like hazlewood? hes not even fit enough to play half the domestic games in the current ongoing fc tournament - thats bang up to date evidence of form. even today he failed to take a wicket when his fellow opening bowler who has massivley outperformed him all tournament took three.

where are you getting the information that he is match practice worthy? or are you going off his pre-history form? and what evidence do you have that he is currently the same quality? - See more at: http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/showthread.php?253454-quot-I-don%92t-think-there-is-anything-special-about-Sohail-Khan-Imran-Khan-or-Rahat-Ali-quot-Mohammad-Asif&p=8977243#post8977243"

it makes absolutely no sense whatsoever to compare his "average" over four or five games (that in of itself is not enough data to draw any conclusions from for anyone with an iota of common sense) to his average 6 years ago. if you are hell bent on making a comparison with that pointlessly small number of data points, the only thing that does make sense is to compare him to his peers if they are all vying for a place in the senior team, and based on the QEA, he doesnt even feature in the top 15. when he cant even beat 15 mostly no name bowlers in the QEA this season, happening right now, how is that a demonstration of 1) match fitness 2) ability to outbowl his peers 3) ability to suddenly leapfrog his peers to outperform them at the highest level of the sport?

complete rubbish.

most wickets: http://stats.espncricinfo.com/quaid..._wickets_career.html?id=11463;type=tournament

he comes at ... doesnt make it into the top 46

but thats not fair, he was injured virtually all tournament, but when he bowled, he was amazing and back to his very best without any doubt, right? so his average will be world beating since that adjusts for overs bowled?

on averages? he comes in at about 37th on the list

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/quaid...bowling_average.html?id=11463;type=tournament

but thats not fair either, hes a strike bowler, back to his best, and no one in pakistan in five years has been able to demonstrate a better ability at taking wickets, right...? his strike rate will show how averages dont matter, and wickets taken dont matter.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/quaid...eer_strike_rate.html?id=11463;type=tournament

well im afraid he doesnt even make the top 50 or so and cant make that list.
 
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