Arundhati Roy : The violence in India is terrifying

[blackanhyellow]

There are many ways to spot an anti national, but a simple litmus test would be those who refuse to sing or stand up to respect the national anthem.

Uh oh, so mute people or those in wheel chairs are doomed in India.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Uh oh, so mute people or those in wheel chairs are doomed in India.

I thought common sense would imply able bodied citizens. I assumed too much.

 

[www787]

I had a look at the RSS website, and their vision and mission is stated to put Hindu culture first, so they are welcoming to diversity as long as they also buy into this mission. My question then would be, what exactly is Hindu culture and is there guidelines as to how to ensure it remains the highest priority for all citizens?

If you like I can start a new thread as this seems like quite a deep topic in it's own right.

Hindu religion.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Hindu religion.

Hindutva is basically what a Hindu Quaid-e-Azam would support. The very vision he had for Pakistan, is what RSS has for India. If you hate one, you must hate both.

 

[www787]

If it is well established, it would be very easy to prove it.

Give evidence that RSS promotes militant version of hinduism. I gave you evidence directly from the RSS supremo, and how they were instrumental in implementing reforms in hindu society.

if you said that RSS is against anti nationals, that would be a valid criticism ( although I fully support them on this) The anti nationals should not be shown any tolerance.

Anti-hindu

 

[CricketCartoons]

Anti-hindu

Prove it.

 

[blackanhyellow]

I thought common sense would imply able bodied citizens. I assumed too much.

Common sense goes out of the window with fascism.

Its either my way or the highway.

Which is why I wanted to ask you how RSS defines someone being an anti national.

Someone who is actually anti Indian, or someone that doesnt agree with RSS.

I.e. someone who hates India, or someone who loves India but wants a secular democracy. Which one is anti national according to RSS, or are both anti national?

The right answer above would be common sense but does RSS see that common sense?

Follow?

 

[www787]

Hindutva is basically what a Hindu Quaid-e-Azam would support. The very vision he had for Pakistan, is what RSS has for India. If you hate one, you must hate both.

Quaid-e-Azam was against right wing hard line hindu extremists, he wasn't Anti-hindu.

 

[blackanhyellow]

Quaid-e-Azam was against right wing hard line hindu extremists, he wasn't Anti-hindu.

Also Quaid didnt support the killing of Hindus especially not just because they are vegetarian

 

[CricketCartoons]

Common sense goes out of the window with fascism.

Its either my way or the highway.

Which is why I wanted to ask you how RSS defines someone being an anti national.

Someone who is actually anti Indian, or someone that doesnt agree with RSS.

I.e. someone who hates India, or someone who loves India but wants a secular democracy. Which one is anti national according to RSS, or are both anti national?

The right answer above would be common sense but does RSS see that common sense?

Follow?

Don't know what you are talking about. RSS has been very pro democracy. They fought against Indira Gandhis' imposition of Emergency when she subverted the constitution.

In fact, (fact being the key word), RSS's demands have their basis from the constitution.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Also Quaid didnt support the killing of Hindus especially not just because they are vegetarian

He did order the Direct Action Day.

And RSS has not supported public lynchings. They have called these vigilantes as criminals.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Quaid-e-Azam was against right wing hard line hindu extremists, he wasn't Anti-hindu.

In many ways, he was the mirror image of RSS. He wanted a plural society with its basis in Islam, where people are free to be anyone, but the foundation of the nation will be Islam. RSS believes the same, from a Hindu cultural POV. That is why I respect Q-e-A just like I respect the RSS.

 

[blackanhyellow]

Don't know what you are talking about. RSS has been very pro democracy. They fought against Indira Gandhis' imposition of Emergency when she subverted the constitution.

In fact, (fact being the key word), RSS's demands have their basis from the constitution.

I said "secular democracy".

Surely you understand the difference between secular and non-secular democracy?

 

[CricketCartoons]

I said "secular democracy".

Surely you understand the difference between secular and non-secular democracy?

I don't know what you understand from secular..in indian context secularism is very different to the western concept of secularism. As far as I know, RSS has never been against secularism, in fact they proudly say that a hindu is secular by very nature.

 

[www787]

In many ways, he was the mirror image of RSS. He wanted a plural society with its basis in Islam, where people are free to be anyone, but the foundation of the nation will be Islam. RSS believes the same, from a Hindu cultural POV. That is why I respect Q-e-A just like I respect the RSS.

Hindu Religion.

And No! Right wing hard line hindu extremists are there to preserve hindu religion. Similar to ISIS.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Hindu Religion.

And No! Right wing hard line hindu extremists are there to preserve hindu religion. Similar to ISIS.

How is RSS idea of India different from Q-e-A's idea of Pakistan?

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Hindu culture means all indians are my brothers and sisters and we are the sons of this soil, and our first loyalty is towards this land of our ancestors. You can't have your first loyalty towards saudi arabia, iran or vatican. This is the essence of Hindutva.

How does one prove their first loyalty is to India rather than any other nation? I read this as the opening statement from RSS site:

The Hindu culture is the life-breath of Hindusthan. It is therefore clear that if Hindusthan is to be protected, we should first nourish the Hindu culture.

Is there anything which is more specific about what is expected of citizens to uphold Hindu culture? Like fore example to eat pakoras instead of pasta maybe? It's quite vague so am wondering how one would do this.

 

[blackanhyellow]

I don't know what you understand from secular..in indian context secularism is very different to the western concept of secularism. As far as I know, RSS has never been against secularism, in fact they proudly say that a hindu is secular by very nature.

Lol okay that is where the confusion comes in. I didnt know India has their own definition of secularism.

That is why when we hear India is a secular democracy we get confused as outsiders.

The original non Indian definition of the word secular is literally the opposite of what RSS teaches.

 

[www787]

How is RSS idea of India different from Q-e-A's idea of Pakistan?

Jinnah wanted minority to be not subservient of majority with extremists element. RSS wants to control minority in fear of losing Hinduism.

 

[CricketCartoons]

How does one prove their first loyalty is to India rather than any other nation? I read this as the opening statement from RSS site:

The Hindu culture is the life-breath of Hindusthan. It is therefore clear that if Hindusthan is to be protected, we should first nourish the Hindu culture.

Is there anything which is more specific about what is expected of citizens to uphold Hindu culture? Like fore example to eat pakoras instead of pasta maybe? It's quite vague so am wondering how one would do this.

Hindu culture is about respect for all religions, respect for elders, environment, and the land of Hindustan. This culture belongs to every indian sikh, christian, muslim, hindu. RSS is absolutely right..if India has to be protected, this culture should be preserved.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Jinnah wanted minority to be not subservient of majority with extremists element. RSS wants to control minority in fear of losing Hinduism.

Quaid-e-Azam believed that the only solution to the hindu muslim problem was a separate country for muslims and another for hindus.

Do you want me to quote him on that?

RSS too believed in Q-e-A's solution then and for some decades, although the modern RSS has become inclusive and wants India first, religion second. I personally wish they had continued to the pursue the solution that Q-e-A supported.

 

[www787]

Hindu culture is about respect for all religions, respect for elders, environment, and the land of Hindustan. This culture belongs to every indian sikh, christian, muslim, hindu. RSS is absolutely right..if India has to be protected, this culture should be preserved.

Again, Culture and Religion has completely different meaning, and RSS isn't trying to protect 'culture', if it did then people would be getting killed for not wearing saree's and out of fashion looooose khaki shorts similar to people are getting killed for transporting a cow.

 

[www787]

Quaid-e-Azam believed that the only solution to the hindu muslim problem was a separate country for muslims and another for hindus.

Do you want me to quote him on that?

RSS too believed in Q-e-A's solution then and for some decades, although the modern RSS has become inclusive and wants India first, religion second. I personally wish they had continued to the pursue the solution that Q-e-A supported.

'Jinnah wanted minority to be not subservient of majority with extremists element. RSS wants to control minority in fear of losing Hinduism.'

what's the difference?

 

[CricketCartoons]

Again, Culture and Religion has completely different meaning, and RSS isn't trying to protect 'culture', if it did then people would be getting killed for not wearing saree's and out of fashion looooose khaki shorts similar to people are getting killed for transporting a cow.

If a muslim commits a crime, will you blame Islam?

So why does any fringe act by someone who may or may not be affiliated with RSS is used to blame RSS?

Just read what the RSS supremo said in his speech 2 days ago to know what RSS stands for.

 

[CricketCartoons]

what's the difference?

Difference is my post is backed by actual evidence, yours is figment of imagination which you are quite good at, I must admit.

If you disagree, then prove that RSS wants to control the minority in fear of losing Hinduism.

 

[www787]

If a muslim commits a crime, will you blame Islam?

So why does any fringe act by someone who may or may not be affiliated with RSS is used to blame RSS?

Just read what the RSS supremo said in his speech 2 days ago to know what RSS stands for.

No! and neither did I blame the religion "Hindu".
Blaming RSS members and it's supporter who has perverted the religion Hindu.

 

[www787]

How does one prove their first loyalty is to India rather than any other nation? I read this as the opening statement from RSS site:

The Hindu culture is the life-breath of Hindusthan. It is therefore clear that if Hindusthan is to be protected, we should first nourish the Hindu culture.

Is there anything which is more specific about what is expected of citizens to uphold Hindu culture? Like fore example to eat pakoras instead of pasta maybe? It's quite vague so am wondering how one would do this.

Difference is my post is backed by actual evidence, yours is figment of imagination which you are quite good at, I must admit.

If you disagree, then prove that RSS wants to control the minority in fear of losing Hinduism.

Quoted

I am sure, RSS meant 'Religion', not 'culture'

 

[CricketCartoons]

No! and neither did I blame the religion "Hindu".
Blaming RSS members and it's supporter who has perverted the religion Hindu.

I never said you blamed Hindu religion. Please read carefully.

If the act of crime by a random muslim is not blamed on Islam, why is the act of a fringe so called supporter of RSS, gets blame on the RSS.

RSS didn't pervert Hinduism..they reformed it and made it better than what it was.

 

[www787]

I never said you blamed Hindu religion. Please read carefully.

If the act of crime by a random muslim is not blamed on Islam, why is the act of a fringe so called supporter of RSS, gets blame on the RSS.

RSS didn't pervert Hinduism..they reformed it and made it better than what it was.

And you call me having good at having 'figment of imagination'. I'd like to pass on that title to you. Congrats.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Quoted

I am sure, RSS meant 'Religion', not 'culture'

RSS says Hindu culture and you are sure it meant Hindu religion? Why bother to quote when you are only going to use your imagination.

 

[www787]

RSS says Hindu culture and you are sure it meant Hindu religion? Why bother to quote when you are only going to use your imagination.

what is Hindu culture?

 

[CricketCartoons]

And you call me having good at having 'figment of imagination'. I'd like to pass on that title to you. Congrats.

Show me what was imaginary in my post.

I see you evaded the question in the post you quoted. But your answer lies in your silence. Thank you.

 

[CricketCartoons]

what is Hindu culture?

Already answered in this thread. If you care to read.

 

[www787]

Show me what was imaginary in my post.

I see you evaded the question in the post you quoted. But your answer lies in your silence. Thank you.

only imaginary facts.

 

[CricketCartoons]

only imaginary facts.

I see you have turned your defence mechanism on. Ok, I will go and hold my breath under water. Chill.

 

[www787]

I see you have turned your defence mechanism on. Ok, I will go and hold my breath under water. Chill.

I never said you blamed Hindu religion. Please read carefully.

If the act of crime by a random muslim is not blamed on Islam, why is the act of a fringe so called supporter of RSS, gets blame on the RSS.

RSS didn't pervert Hinduism..they reformed it and made it better than what it was.

No! replying to your queries to the standard of your queries. Because you are smarter than you are trying to present yourself at the this discussion.

 

[CricketCartoons]

No! replying to your queries to the standard of your queries. Because you are smarter than you are trying to present yourself at the this discussion.

Not an issue. It is natural to resort to denial when presented with facts which go against your beliefs. I shouldn't have asked that question, as it triggered the switch of denial for you.

 

[www787]

Not an issue. It is natural to resort to denial when presented with facts which go against your beliefs. I shouldn't have asked that question, as it triggered the switch of denial for you.

Beliefs = faith.
right wing hard line hindu extremism exist, has many reported cases.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Beliefs = faith.
right wing hard line hindu extremism exist, has many reported cases.

I never denied that hindu extremists exist.

Just that they have nothing to do with RSS, as RSS doesn't believe in terrorism. It only believes in a strong and secure India, where everyone from every religion contributes to the nation in their capacity.

 

[Tusker]

This is often a point of confusion for me. On the one hand I don't believe partition based along religion was a good idea, all it does is weaken those minorities left behind. On the other, I have to say Pakistanis at least don't have to live at the mercy of the mobs when the mood turns ugly in India.

No doubt minorities are treated like filth in India. Pakistan is not far behind either in this regard. Only difference is we accept it where as they insist all is good and well in India. Modi is a farishta with his "sab ka saath sab ka vikaas" nonsense. What he means is "Hindutva ka saath BJP ka vikaas".

If minorities are treated like filth in India just like in Pakistan ... can you explain the following facts (direct answers please without dodging and beating around the bush) ?

1. How do Kashmiri Pundits find themselves driven out of their Homeland ( nearly 30 yrs ) ?
2. How is it possible that the Ram Temple is still not built on what is now archaeologically proven using scientific methods to be the spot where the Ram temple stood ?
3. How is it possible for a bunch of Muslim goons to torch a train in broad daylight killing 60 Hindu Pilgrims and yet the narrative in the media is completely opposite ? For instance try and find out if Arundhati Roy EVER said anything remotely harsh against the perpetrators of each of these above mentionded facts.


If the Hindu community in Pakistan did anything remotely close to these things in Pakistan they would by now be completely obliterated without any trace. Indeed they are significantly marginalized without having done anything remotely atrocious and brazen as the above 3 points. This is the difference between India and Pakistan. Laughable comparison really.
[MENTION=48620]Cpt. Rishwat[/MENTION]
[MENTION=43583]KingKhanWC[/MENTION]

 

[www787]

If minorities are treated like filth in India just like in Pakistan ... can you explain the following facts (direct answers please without dodging and beating around the bush) ?

1. How do Kashmiri Pundits find themselves driven out of their Homeland ( nearly 30 yrs ) ?
2. How is it possible that the Ram Temple is still not built on what is now archaeologically proven using scientific methods to be the spot where the Ram temple stood ?
3. How is it possible for a bunch of Muslim goons to torch a train in broad daylight killing 60 Hindu Pilgrims and yet the narrative in the media is completely opposite ? For instance try and find out if Arundhati Roy EVER said anything remotely harsh against the perpetrators of each of these above mentionded facts.


If the Hindu community in Pakistan did anything remotely close to these things in Pakistan they would by now be completely obliterated without any trace. Indeed they are significantly marginalized without having done anything remotely atrocious and brazen as the above 3 points. This is the difference between India and Pakistan. Laughable comparison really.

[MENTION=48620]Cpt. Rishwat[/MENTION]
[MENTION=43583]KingKhanWC[/MENTION]

Which Pakistani has claimed that minority of Pakistan are treated better than Sachin Tendulkar in Pakistan?

The comment you quoted has clearly mentioned that fact.

 

[Tusker]

Which Pakistani has claimed that minority of Pakistan are treated better than Sachin Tendulkar in Pakistan?

The comment you quoted has clearly mentioned that fact.

Not sure what Tendulkar has to do with this .... but the point is despite all those attrocities Muslim population in India is nearly 200 Million whereas Hindu population in Pakistan is barely 1 or 2% ... therefore there is a large difference in how both countries treat minorities. I thought this was obvious but guess not.

 

[www787]

Not sure what Tendulkar has to do with this .... but the point is despite all those attrocities Muslim population in India is nearly 200 Million whereas Hindu population in Pakistan is barely 1 or 2% ... therefore there is a large difference in how both countries treat minorities. I thought this was obvious but guess not.

what is your main point that you are trying to make?

India has more Muslims, agree.
Pakistan has less hindu compare to India, agree.

Treatment? you forgot to mention, India had a Muslim President.

But what it has to do with RSS? I mean ISIS wanted to get rid of democratic elected government but they couldn't, just because ISIS couldn't make it less of an extremists organization.

So, just because RSS hasn't made a temple yet, it does not translate into not an extremists religious group.

 

[Tusker]

what is your main point that you are trying to make?

That there is big difference between reality and perception and how India treats minorities as compared to Pakistan ( it is not the same as PakLFC was claiming). You guys can keep shouting that India is run by hardline extremists but you will get stuck everytime arguing and defending that in the real world. On an anonymous forum with little consequences to what you write you can say anything and get away with.

India has more Muslims, agree.
Pakistan has less hindu compare to India, agree.

Treatment? you forgot to mention, India had a Muslim President.

But what it has to do with RSS? I mean ISIS wanted to get rid of democratic elected government but they couldn't, just because ISIS couldn't make it less of an extremists organization.

I dont understand what you are saying here. Are you comparing ISIS to RSS ?

So, just because RSS hasn't made a temple yet, it does not translate into not an extremists religious group.

Shouldn't that be the easiest thing to achieve for a supposedly hardline extremist Organization especially when they are in Total control ?

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Hindu culture is about respect for all religions, respect for elders, environment, and the land of Hindustan. This culture belongs to every indian sikh, christian, muslim, hindu. RSS is absolutely right..if India has to be protected, this culture should be preserved.

Those are all admirable goals and values, I myself would be happy to become a Hindu and join the RSS. Who would be the best person in the UK to contact in order to do this now that Tommy Sir is resting at Her Majesty's leisure?

 

[akki]

If minorities are treated like filth in India just like in Pakistan ... can you explain the following facts (direct answers please without dodging and beating around the bush) ?

1. How do Kashmiri Pundits find themselves driven out of their Homeland ( nearly 30 yrs ) ?
2. How is it possible that the Ram Temple is still not built on what is now archaeologically proven using scientific methods to be the spot where the Ram temple stood ?
3. How is it possible for a bunch of Muslim goons to torch a train in broad daylight killing 60 Hindu Pilgrims and yet the narrative in the media is completely opposite ? For instance try and find out if Arundhati Roy EVER said anything remotely harsh against the perpetrators of each of these above mentionded facts.


If the Hindu community in Pakistan did anything remotely close to these things in Pakistan they would by now be completely obliterated without any trace. Indeed they are significantly marginalized without having done anything remotely atrocious and brazen as the above 3 points. This is the difference between India and Pakistan. Laughable comparison really.

[MENTION=48620]Cpt. Rishwat[/MENTION]
[MENTION=43583]KingKhanWC[/MENTION]

Plus more questions =
How many muslims applied for citizenship to pakistan ? India has almost largest muslim population and still nobody applies for citizenship of pakistan whereas very few hindus who are left now in pakistan still applies for citizenship of india . You need to answer this as well.

How come india still has almost largest number of mosques in india if rss is what you say they are ??

How come bollywood or many significant industries have muslims dominating and love india to the core and hardly care about pakistan.
Why does whole world not know an iota of rss whereas pakistan is world famous for radiclization and other things and many terrorists has been banned by UN etc , but nobody knows rss

Nobody has not yet provided facts and figures of lynching in india by rss or whatever for eating beaf . Out of 130 crore populated country i want to know if you can post figures.
If rss promotes hindu culture or religio .is it illegal thing to do in the world. Has islam never tried to spread its culture or religion anywhere in the world ???
India is indeed best country for muslims all over the world and 99 percent muslims feel lucky and acknowledge this fact ,so is it jealousy or insecurity of pakistanis that keep them saying irrelevant things.
Its high time we indians stop taking these people seriously just like our govt is doing with them i guess. Because they only have an agenda and no facts and logics to prove.

 

[Tusker]

[MENTION=136571]akki[/MENTION] there are a lot more questions ... I was mainly concentrating on the most important ones that represent some of the most blatant violations.

Here are some more

4. How come India has Muslim Personal Law ?
5. Article 370 that grants special status to Kashmir while the Pundits live in refugee camps.

 

[PakLFC]

If minorities are treated like filth in India just like in Pakistan ... can you explain the following facts (direct answers please without dodging and beating around the bush) ?

1. How do Kashmiri Pundits find themselves driven out of their Homeland ( nearly 30 yrs ) ?
2. How is it possible that the Ram Temple is still not built on what is now archaeologically proven using scientific methods to be the spot where the Ram temple stood ?
3. How is it possible for a bunch of Muslim goons to torch a train in broad daylight killing 60 Hindu Pilgrims and yet the narrative in the media is completely opposite ? For instance try and find out if Arundhati Roy EVER said anything remotely harsh against the perpetrators of each of these above mentionded facts.


If the Hindu community in Pakistan did anything remotely close to these things in Pakistan they would by now be completely obliterated without any trace. Indeed they are significantly marginalized without having done anything remotely atrocious and brazen as the above 3 points. This is the difference between India and Pakistan. Laughable comparison really.

[MENTION=48620]Cpt. Rishwat[/MENTION]
[MENTION=43583]KingKhanWC[/MENTION]

Ram Temple not being built does not mean Muslim's are not constantly under threat. On the contrary that probably makes them even more vulnerable to attacks from Hindutva fascists. Kash Pundits were wrongly forced out by the Muslim's n the valley where they are the majority. Well there are some 200 million Muslim's in your country compared to a few million Hindu's in Pak. Talking of burning people what have you done about the Samjhauta Express where Hindu radicals killed so many Pakistanis? India has many media outlets with each reporting something different, this has nothing to do with the condition of Muslim's in your country. I am not saying that Pak treats it's minorities well however we accept our short comings where as you think India is a heaven for Muslim's.

The funny thing is that every day minorities in India are under attack yet you people continue to live in denial.

 

[Itachi]

The funny thing is that every day minorities in India are under attack yet you people continue to live in denial.

Can you provide a list with special mention to the time frame and the place?

 

[PakLFC]

Can you provide a list with special mention to the time frame and the place?

NDTV reports incidents almost every day. Some days back there was some Christian issue as welll.

 

[Tusker]

Ram Temple not being built does not mean Muslim's are not constantly under threat. On the contrary that probably makes them even more vulnerable to attacks from Hindutva fascists.

Thats a contradictory statement ... if the extremists are soo violent and oppressive ... this (Building Temple) would have been accomplished a long long time ago ... especially as it does not involve killing anyone. So how is it that they have not managed to build a simple thing as a Temple which is considered to be one the most sacred places of worship for Hindu's ?

Kash Pundits were wrongly forced out by the Muslim's n the valley where they are the majority.

How is this possible in this day and age with the Indian Military in control of the region ? And dont forget the extremists who you claim to be all over India. How is it that there is hardly any response to the Kashmiri Pandit episode from RSS and the other supposedly extremist militant outfits?

BTW can you atleast have the moral conscience to admit that there is nothing remotely close to the ethnic cleansing of Kashmiri Pandits done by any Hindu right wing organization.

Samjauta Express - Please answer without dodging the question about the Godhra Train torching by residents . That that too in middle of Gujarat. Yet they live there to this day . If this had happened in Pakistan ....

So tell me how that is possible if India is such an extremist country.

Anyhow check this out:

https://www.indiatvnews.com/news/in...-national-was-let-off-despite-evidence-387479

I am not saying that Pak treats it's minorities well however we accept our short comings where as you think India is a heaven for Muslim's.

I never claimed that. However if you are stupid enough to go around burning down trains , fighting tooth and nail against building Ram temple, indulge in ethnic cleansing ( and the list goes on an on) .... then Muslims as a community cant be expected to be treated royally by the majority.

And please note that 99% of of all communal tensions in India involve Muslims. How is it that Hindus don't have any serious issues with other minorities ?

 

[Tusker]

NDTV reports incidents almost every day. Some days back there was some Christian issue as welll.

Please post these incidents ... start with anything remotely close to say the Pandit ethnic cleansing from Kashmir. Lets see who is more extreme.

 

[Itachi]

NDTV reports incidents almost every day. Some days back there was some Christian issue as welll.

Www787 and you, both are claiming that it is happening everyday.

What I am asking here is, can you provide a small list with specific mention of the time frame and the place?

 

[www787]

That there is big difference between reality and perception and how India treats minorities as compared to Pakistan ( it is not the same as PakLFC was claiming). You guys can keep shouting that India is run by hardline extremists but you will get stuck everytime arguing and defending that in the real world. On an anonymous forum with little consequences to what you write you can say anything and get away with.





I dont understand what you are saying here. Are you comparing ISIS to RSS ?




Shouldn't that be the easiest thing to achieve for a supposedly hardline extremist Organization especially when they are in Total control ?

Stop comparing Pakistan with India.

Now please tell me what is the reality and perception of RSS in your own words.

If you want to discuss the minority of Pakistan then you are more than welcome to open a thread.

 

[Tusker]

Stop comparing Pakistan with India.

Now please tell me what is the reality and perception of RSS in your own words.

If you want to discuss the minority of Pakistan then you are more than welcome to open a thread.

It was your own country men that compared how Pakistan treats minorities ... they said its just the same as India does and I presented some simple facts that none of you can deny but will conveniently ignore. Maybe you need to ask them to stop that first. Because there is no comparison whatsoever.

I never said anything good or bad about RSS .... Iam a very data driven individual ... I see you ranting all the time on how the RSS is a militant extremist organization but whenever anyone asks for a simple list of atrocities committed by RSS on Muslims you very predictably resort to trolling because you know very well that if the RSS was such a violent organization there would have been hell to pay in retaliation for the 3 very serious issues that I listed above.

If you want to be taken seriously you need to stand up and argue like a man instead of trolling and weasel like a teenager.

 

[www787]

It was your own country men that compared how Pakistan treats minorities ... they said its just the same as India does and I presented some simple facts that none of you can deny but will conveniently ignore. Maybe you need to ask them to stop that first. Because there is no comparison whatsoever.

I never said anything good or bad about RSS .... Iam a very data driven individual ... I see you ranting all the time on how the RSS is a militant extremist organization but whenever anyone asks for a simple list of atrocities committed by RSS on Muslims you very predictably resort to trolling because you know very well that if the RSS was such a violent organization there would have been hell to pay in retaliation for the 3 very serious issues that I listed above.

If you want to be taken seriously you need to stand up and argue like a man instead of trolling and weasel like a teenager.

Again, google it, and you'll find plenty of atrocities committed by RSS, but please try to google without your saffron goggles.

RSS didn't build a temple but BJP and its accomplice were involved in destroying that Mosque.

Just because they haven't build a temple does not translate into RSS does not promote militancy against minority.

Your question are ******** and reflect 'talking points'. like i have said, google it and you'll find plenty of RSS activities, but try without saffron goggles.

Good luck.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

It was your own country men that compared how Pakistan treats minorities ... they said its just the same as India does and I presented some simple facts that none of you can deny but will conveniently ignore. Maybe you need to ask them to stop that first. Because there is no comparison whatsoever.

I never said anything good or bad about RSS .... Iam a very data driven individual ... I see you ranting all the time on how the RSS is a militant extremist organization but whenever anyone asks for a simple list of atrocities committed by RSS on Muslims you very predictably resort to trolling because you know very well that if the RSS was such a violent organization there would have been hell to pay in retaliation for the 3 very serious issues that I listed above.

If you want to be taken seriously you need to stand up and argue like a man instead of trolling and weasel like a teenager.

If you want a serious discussion you need to stop making personal insults on posters and discuss the data you are claiming to be so keen on. You claim RSS is not a violent institution but neither was Al Muhajiroun or Anjem Choudhary in the UK, but still they were outlawed in the UK for their perceived incitement to violence. I am not making any comparisons to RSS you understand, just pointing out that directly being involved in physical violence itself isn't the only charge that may be laid against them.

 

[Itachi]

what i have spotted here is, there are few posters who instantly makes claim anything that is against india. But when it is time to provide an instance, they resort to either trolling or goes in to silent mode. There are posters who are open minded atleast, have the courtesy to listen to the opposing views. But these former type of posters create so much noise that these serious posters are driven away.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Again, google it, and you'll find plenty of atrocities committed by RSS, but please try to google without your saffron goggles.

RSS didn't build a temple but BJP and its accomplice were involved in destroying that Mosque.

Just because they haven't build a temple does not translate into RSS does not promote militancy against minority.

Your question are ******** and reflect 'talking points'. like i have said, google it and you'll find plenty of RSS activities, but try without saffron goggles.

Good luck.

If it is so easy to Google you wouldn't be evading when asked to present any evidence.

It shows how much BJP supports the constitutional and legal process that it has waited for the supreme court to give its verdict. Tell me one extremist terrorist organization which follows the judicial process and the constitution?

 

[www787]

what i have spotted here is, there are few posters who instantly makes claim anything that is against india. But when it is time to provide an instance, they resort to either trolling or goes in to silent mode. There are posters who are open minded atleast, have the courtesy to listen to the opposing views. But these former type of posters create so much noise that these serious posters are driven away.

since you are keen on data, provide a data that suggest RSS does not promote militancy and had never been involved in militancy and extremism against minority?

Not going to provide data because it is not worth going into debate trying to convert a RSS supporter. I have better things to with my time then search for data. But if you are so keen on finding data, i suggest you google, I heard Indian are very tech savy. But try it without saffron goggles.

Objective isn't to debate with RSS supporters, a right wing hard line religious extremists, just google their website and you'll see plenty of info promoting religious extremism, Most of the Indian are RSS supporters, they have voted in BJP.

Open minded? open minded to you probably is someone who agree with your views.

No matter what skewed data or odd video you provide but no one with their right mind can deny that RSS is a right wing hard line hindu extremist organization that promote Hinduism in fear of loosing relevancy of Hindu religion.

 

[Tusker]

Again, google it, and you'll find plenty of atrocities committed by RSS, but please try to google without your saffron goggles.

RSS didn't build a temple but BJP and its accomplice were involved in destroying that Mosque.

Just because they haven't build a temple does not translate into RSS does not promote militancy against minority.

Your question are ******** and reflect 'talking points'. like i have said, google it and you'll find plenty of RSS activities, but try without saffron goggles.

Good luck.

Come back here when you have the intestinal fortitude to provide direct answers to questions asked without running away with your tail firmly tucked between your legs.

There is not even anything remotely close to say the Kashmiri Pandit ethnic cleansing that you can associate with RSS. You know that very well and hence your pathetic response.

The mosque stood on top of a very holy temple. RSS has every right to take it down ... to their credit they waited patiently (over many decades ) for the Muslim community to do the honorable thing. When no such courtesy was forthcoming it was then they took matters in their own hands. But do tell us how Muslims are such a blameless innocent party in this. Victim mentality at its absolute best.

 

[Tusker]

since you are keen on data, provide a data that suggest RSS does not promote militancy and had never been involved in militancy and extremism against minority?

You made the initial claim that RSS is a militant organization and therefore it is your responsibility to back that up with facts. this is how a proper debate works.

Otherwise I can lay blame on Pakistan for a lot of things and just simply ask you to Google. Doesnt work like that.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Come back here when you have the intestinal fortitude to provide direct answers to questions asked without running away with your tail firmly tucked between your legs.

There is not even anything remotely close to say the Kashmiri Pandit ethnic cleansing that you can associate with RSS. You know that very well and hence your pathetic response.

The mosque stood on top of a very holy temple. RSS has every right to take it down ... to their credit they waited patiently (over many decades ) for the Muslim community to do the honorable thing. When no such courtesy was forthcoming it was then they took matters in their own hands. But do tell us how Muslims are such a blameless innocent party in this. Victim mentality at its absolute best.

Do you have any empirical proof that Kashmiri pandits were ethnically cleansed from the region?

 

[Tusker]

If you want a serious discussion you need to stop making personal insults on posters and discuss the data you are claiming to be so keen on. You claim RSS is not a violent institution but neither was Al Muhajiroun or Anjem Choudhary in the UK, but still they were outlawed in the UK for their perceived incitement to violence. I am not making any comparisons to RSS you understand, just pointing out that directly being involved in physical violence itself isn't the only charge that may be laid against them.

If you actually bothered to read my posts you will find the data that addresses the topic we are discussing. When gutless posters don't have the guts to talk directly and resort to weaseling they will be called out.

 

[Mr.Q]

It’s very important to look at things from a neutral perspective. The problem with the majority of people here is that they only look at things from a very religious perspective. If you look at things with those green tinted glasses as [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] calls it, everything other communities do would appear wrong or against you.

1)This ‘Hindu’ culture people talk about is the general culture of India. It doesn’t mean the culture of Hindus alone. I mentioned in my previous posts that the Indian culture is influenced by many religions and cultures. It’s basically a culture based on Hinduism which is influenced by other religions and cultures. Different variations of this culture is practiced in different parts of India.

Pretty much all the major festivals and celebrations at the regional and national level in India are of the Hindus. Anything that is celebrated by the majority becomes a part of the culture. It’s the festival, not the religious side of it we look at and we embrace it. It’ll be a bit difficult to understand for an outsider. Since many of you guys live in UK, USA etc I’d use an example to drive my point home. Think about Christmas. It’s essentially a religious festival. But it’s a part of the culture there. You guys know how it’s like during that time of the year. The atmosphere. The euphoria. Haven’t you guys been to Christmas markets?

That is exactly how it is here. In India the celebrations are much more lively and animated. Even the Hindu marriages are fun to attend. It’s a wonderful experience. The interesting thing is that you will see the influence of other religions and cultures even in the way all these festivals or occasions are celebrated. You’ll have to come to India to understand this.

It’s the only country on the planet with this culture and we’re proud of it. There’s a need to protect this culture from Western influence and religious influence. I repeat, it’s the only country which represents this culture.

I’m not saying that the RSS people are angels or endorsing their actions but just explaining what the ‘Hindu culture’ or the culture of India means.

2) The Ayodhya issue. Many of you guys know what it is. It’s a fact that there was a temple there before the mosque was built. The manner in which they demolished the mosque was what hurt the sentiments. But many Islamic scholars and leaders are now willing to let the Hindus build a temple there. Ayodhya is more important to a Hindu than to a Muslim. According to their holy book, Ram was born in Ayodhya. And that temple was built a very long time ago. The temple was allegedly demolished and a mosque was built over it during the Mughal period. It’s an extremely sensitive issue for the Hindus. [MENTION=48620]Cpt. Rishwat[/MENTION] had asked me why BJP uses this Ayodhya card. Now you know answer. It brings the Hindus together.

 

[Tusker]

Do you have any empirical proof that Kashmiri pandits were ethnically cleansed from the region?

While it is tempting to direct you to Google I will refrain from doing that.

Here it is in a nutshell words of a Kashmiri Muslim leader:
http://www.thehindu.com/news/nation...for-lsquoethnic-cleansing/article14962504.ece

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

While it is tempting to direct you to Google I will refrain from doing that.

Here it is in a nutshell words of a Kashmiri Muslim leader:
http://www.thehindu.com/news/nation...for-lsquoethnic-cleansing/article14962504.ece

He was part of the govt and thus hardly an impartial voice, and even then he refers to it as the departure of Pandits rather than ethnic cleansing. Can you provide some actual evidence?

 

[www787]

Come back here when you have the intestinal fortitude to provide direct answers to questions asked without running away with your tail firmly tucked between your legs.

There is not even anything remotely close to say the Kashmiri Pandit ethnic cleansing that you can associate with RSS. You know that very well and hence your pathetic response.

The mosque stood on top of a very holy temple. RSS has every right to take it down ... to their credit they waited patiently (over many decades ) for the Muslim community to do the honorable thing. When no such courtesy was forthcoming it was then they took matters in their own hands. But do tell us how Muslims are such a blameless innocent party in this. Victim mentality at its absolute best.

Tail? If i had a tail then shouldn't you be giving me respect and agreeing to every word I have written?

Do the honorable thing, spoken like a true supporter of RSS, if not then your property will be destroyed, killed, rape and will be told to go to Pakistan. Poor Pryanka, she has never been to Pakistan.

I am not here to convince RSS supporter that their organisation is an extremists organisation which is supported by BJP. Not my job, my objective isn't to convert an extremists to a normal citizen, i am sure rehab exist for that somewhere.

But, again if you are interested, just google it and if you disagree with anything posted against RSS then you can come here defend it

You are blaming Muslims, whereas I am blaming the right wing hard line Hindu extremists supported by the BJP, the government in power, currently. It seems you are a victim of a victim mentality as soon as someone call RSS for what they are. Majority if not 99.9% of the Muslims on this forum will condemn any extremists group that try to make minority subservient.

I haven't run away, i am still here.

 

[Tusker]

Tail? If i had a tail then shouldn't you be giving me respect and agreeing to every word I have written?

Do the honorable thing, spoken like a true supporter of RSS, if not then your property will be destroyed, killed, rape and will be told to go to Pakistan. Poor Pryanka, she has never been to Pakistan.

I am not here to convince RSS supporter that their organisation is an extremists organisation which is supported by BJP. Not my job, my objective isn't to convert an extremists to a normal citizen, i am sure rehab exist for that somewhere.

But, again if you are interested, just google it and if you disagree with anything posted against RSS then you can come here defend it

You are blaming Muslims, whereas I am blaming the right wing hard line Hindu extremists supported by the BJP, the government in power, currently. It seems you are a victim of a victim mentality as soon as someone call RSS for what they are. Majority if not 99.9% of the Muslims on this forum will condemn any extremists group that try to make minority subservient.

I haven't run away, i am still here.

Again what came first the destruction of the holy temple or the Mosque ? So this is where your usual cop out of go google it will come in handy.

Not sure why you even get into these discussions when it is clear that you do not have the requisite maturity to handle hard and very uncomfortable facts of blatant militant rogue behavior from Muslims.... and then you have the cheek to point fingers at Hindus.

 

[Tusker]

He was part of the govt and thus hardly an impartial voice, and even then he refers to it as the departure of Pandits rather than ethnic cleansing. Can you provide some actual evidence?

no he did mention Ethnic cleansing. It's right there on the first Paragraph

Union Minister for New and Renewable Energy Farooq Abdullah on Friday said the exodus of Kashmiri Pandits from the Valley is the darkest chapter in the history of Jammu & Kashmir and sought “forgiveness” for the “ethnic cleansing”.

But not surprising to see that response coming from you ... just analyze the stupidity of it all ... someone making up utterly false claims of "ethnic cleansing" thereby attracting the wrath of his own community.

What kind of logic is taught to you guys in schools ? Pathetic. To say the least.

 

[Tusker]

He was part of the govt and thus hardly an impartial voice, and even then he refers to it as the departure of Pandits rather than ethnic cleansing. Can you provide some actual evidence?

BBC Article: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-35923237

Perhaps the BBC is also pandering to the indians ?

 

[www787]

Again what came first the destruction of the holy temple or the Mosque ? So this is where your usual cop out of go google it will come in handy.

Not sure why you even get into these discussions when it is clear that you do not have the requisite maturity to handle hard and very uncomfortable facts of blatant militant rogue behavior from Muslims.... and then you have the cheek to point fingers at Hindus.

Do you see me supporting rogue behavior by Muslim extremists?

But you are supporting the rogue behavior by RSS militant.

I’m not coping out. I’m still here and answering to your illogical and extremists queries.

You have an option to not answer but it seems I’ve hit truth for you to come here trying to defend a right wing hardline Hindu extremists group.

So what was honorable thing to do by RSS militants, should have build a temple somewhere else instead of killing and raping innocent people.

Let’s see how personal you can get in your next post. Keep them coming, it is quite entertaining and exposing your militant view in order defend a militancy of religious organization.

 

[www787]

Again what came first the destruction of the holy temple or the Mosque ? So this is where your usual cop out of go google it will come in handy.

Not sure why you even get into these discussions when it is clear that you do not have the requisite maturity to handle hard and very uncomfortable facts of blatant militant rogue behavior from Muslims.... and then you have the cheek to point fingers at Hindus.

I forgot to ask one Question.

Will you still watch Pyranka movies or the order has been given from the HQ of RSS not to watch her movie?

 

[www787]

BBC Article: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-35923237

Perhaps the BBC is also pandering to the indians ?

Justifying killing of Muslim for not doing supposedly honorable thing.
Pundit should have been left alone but ou trying to justify RSS a right wing hardline extremists Hindus group supported by BJP is pathetic

 

[Tusker]

Do you see me supporting rogue behavior by Muslim extremists?

Yes I do ... by never ever blaming the origin of every serious Hindu-Muslim issue on the perpetrators which is usually the Muslims you indirectly support them. For instance the Temple destruction and Muslims fighting against building a temple even to this day when it is proven by scientific means that the Mosque stood right on top of the temple.

Start accepting responsibility for your crimes and then you can expect a mature response and hope for a reasonable settlement. However Muslims are never ever ever known for doing such things hence why the numerous vigilante groups who are forced to take matters in their own hands when they see they are dealing with a rogue community that has no moral compunctions. This is what happens usually in Hindu-Muslim tensions. You pick most major issues and invariably the root cause leads to rogue Muslim elements brazenly indulging in violence. Godhra being the classic case.

If as you claim the RSS is such a militant extremist organization then the Muslims would have been completely driven out of India a long time ago. This is the main point I made by listing those 3 major outstanding issues.

But the Gutless keyboard warrior that you are you will now ask me to google. Typical.

 

[Tusker]

Justifying killing of Muslim for not doing supposedly honorable thing.
Pundit should have been left alone but ou trying to justify RSS a right wing hardline extremists Hindus group supported by BJP is pathetic

What justified ? Those are the jungle rules made by your own fellow Muslims. Why are you now whinging when you have met your match ? If you are stupid enough to burn down a train with small kids and women in it, drive out unarmed Kashmiri Pandits you absolutely deserve what you get as mandated by your own rules.

 

[www787]

Yes I do ... by never ever blaming the origin of every serious Hindu-Muslim issue on the perpetrators which is usually the Muslims you indirectly support them. For instance the Temple destruction and Muslims fighting against building a temple even to this day when it is proven by scientific means that the Mosque stood right on top of the temple.

Start accepting responsibility for your crimes and then you can expect a mature response and hope for a reasonable settlement. However Muslims are never ever ever known for doing such things hence why the numerous vigilante groups who are forced to take matters in their own hands when they see they are dealing with a rogue community that has no moral compunctions. This is what happens usually in Hindu-Muslim tensions. You pick most major issues and invariably the root cause leads to rogue Muslim elements brazenly indulging in violence. Godhra being the classic case.

If as you claim the RSS is such a militant extremist organization then the Muslims would have been completely driven out of India a long time ago. This is the main point I made by listing those 3 major outstanding issues.

But the Gutless keyboard warrior that you are you will now ask me to google. Typical.

When this conversation began I had an idea that you’ll have an extremists view but to this extremists is quite surprising. At least you aren’t gutless like the other on this forum who secretly support right wing hardline Hindu extremists and wish for the same for minorities.

India will be free of Muslims and Hindustan again, just need another billion of soldiers like yourself.

 

[www787]

What justified ? Those are the jungle rules made by your own fellow Muslims. Why are you now whinging when you have met your match ? If you are stupid enough to burn down a train with small kids and women in it, drive out unarmed Kashmiri Pandits you absolutely deserve what you get as mandated by your own rules.

You keep saying “you”, I’ve never been to India.

 

[www787]

What justified ? Those are the jungle rules made by your own fellow Muslims. Why are you now whinging when you have met your match ? If you are stupid enough to burn down a train with small kids and women in it, drive out unarmed Kashmiri Pandits you absolutely deserve what you get as mandated by your own rules.

What rules did you wanted to play with?
Honorable subservient?

 

[Tusker]

What rules did you wanted to play with?
Honorable subservient?

The rules of the civilized world where disputes are resolved thru courts/common-sense/due-process and not through sword/guns. But then the Irony is that your fellow Muslims don't subscribe to those rules ... so that leaves us with 2 choices - Convert or Fight. Welcome to the mad world of Muslims.