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As Yasir Shah continues his decline, who should replace him?

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Bewal Express

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It won't be too long before Yasir is dropped, the guy doesn't turn the ball and his control has gone. Other than Asghar, who are the potential replacements? Shadab was decent in the U19 WC but is 3 years away from being ready, but outside that, the cupboard looks bare. Any other suggestions?
 
there is no such thing as 3 years away or 2 years away from being ready in Pak cricket. Domestic cricket is useless for development, might as well chuck them in the international team to see if they develop and perform.
 
He hasn't declined. He is just not as good as some people thought he is. I demand apologies from the suspects who criticized me for not buying into the hype.

He is still a match-winner in the UAE and comfortably our best bowler, however, he is no Ashwin.
 
Mamoon said:
He hasn't declined. He is just not as good as some people thought he is. I demand apologies from the suspects who criticized me for not buying into the hype.

He is still a match-winner in the UAE and comfortably our best bowler, however, he is no Ashwin.
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Agreed.

But nobody on earth can play the stock spinner role that Misbah imagines is possible in Australia. Especially with these fields.
 
For me Usama is like Yasir, no leg spin. I know it's an obvious statement but a leg spinner that doesn't turn the ball will struggle, people point to Kumble but he was an exception, rather than the rule.
 
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Abdul Qadir, Murali and Ashwin were useless in Australia.

Swann had his career ended here.

Anil Kumble had several dreadful series before one good one.

The problem is that Misbah disrespected the history of cricket and deluded himself that Yasir Shah would break the trend.
 
Bewal Express said:
When I first saw Zafar I liked what I saw, but when I watched him later there had been no improvement, in fact I felt he had regressed. He just doesn't have that drop you need at the higher level.
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He regressed because he played in the domestic circuit. That's what our domestic cricket does to our players, regress them.
 
Junaids said:
Abdul Qadir, Murali and Ashwin were useless in Australia.

Swann had his career ended here.

Anil Kumble had several dreadful series before one good one.

The problem is that Misbah disrespected the history of cricket and deluded himself that Yasir Shah would break the trend.
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Maybe a great captain could have made him slightly more effective but blaming Misbah is red herring, Yasir just doesn't turn the ball and no captain can help a spinner turn the ball.
 
Wow! Yasir Shah, not so long ago 'The Best Leggie since Shane Warne' is already worthless?? :harby

How times change, eh?
 
For places like New Zealand, Australia, South Africa, England you need spinners who have these qualities :

1. Impeccable control.

2. Sharp turn.

3. Varieties.



Who clicks your mind ?


1. Muttiah Muralitharan

2. Shane Warne

3. Stuart McGill.



Though Ravichandran Ashwin does not turn the ball viciously but he does get considerable turn. Mark my words pen it down Ashwin will make the above List and his overseas record will improve significantly provided he stays fit and remains focussed because He has all the tools in his armoury and is an intelligent indivisual and bowler.


I hope I am proven wrong but Yasir doesn't have the tools even if you give him Mike Brearly, Stephen Fleming or flamboyant McCullum as captain or Graem Smith or Dhoni or Cook.

1. Yasir is overweight and here and there he has back problem. If your back isn't 100 % you cannot have control on line and length plus you cannot extract your potential maximum turn.

2. Even at his physical best condition i.e back being in reasonable shape Yasir cannot turn/spin the ball appreciably on 90 % of surfaces he will come across in AUS, SA, NZ & ENG.

3. His wrong-one ie googly is quite benign.

4. He has a good zooter but he doesn't have a flipper in his armoury. Before shoulder injury Shane Warne took alot of wickets through his flipper.

5. Yasir doesn't mix up his available varieties efficiently. Say like Ashwin does.



Yasir will be and should be Pakistan's trump card in Pakistan, United Arab Emirates, Bangladesh, Zimbabwe, Srilanka and West Indies but in SA, ENG, AUS & NZ he will be our main weapon only at 5 - 10 % venues like the Lords asian like wicket. So he should play if his back is 100 %. Otherwise he should not be an automatic selection in the playing eleven.


It is very unfortunate that Usama Mir has got a serious back injury as he was the real deal. I do not dwell upon his numbers in domestic where he has played handful of matches that too mostly on green wickets for KRL. I have watched him live and I know what he is all about. If he recovers fully than I expect him to bowl the way he previously did and than if we need a leggie he should be picked for places which don't suit Yasir. He would average around 30, 33 with the ball in those places in my opinion. Otherwise we can select allrounder Shadab Khan who bowls quickish leg break but turns the ball more than Yasir but less than Usama and is a very good batsman and a brilliant fielder. To add to it the Mianwali born Pindi boy has excellent attitude and work ethics. Than when we need two spinners ie in UAE than with Yasir 2nd spinner should be Asghar. While Nasir Awais, Junaid Ilyas (Offspinners) & Zafar Gohar should be in radar aswell.Zafar's disadvantages are short height and his action doesn't allow him to bowl closer to the wickets. But he does impart good revs on the ball. But I would still prefer Asghar over Zafar. To summarise I will reiterate that stop assuming Yasir Shah as your main weapon in all conditions.


I would love Mickey to stand for Usama (he rates highly) the way Woolmer took stance for Asif.
 
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Mamoon said:
He hasn't declined. He is just not as good as some people thought he is. I demand apologies from the suspects who criticized me for not buying into the hype.

He is still a match-winner in the UAE and comfortably our best bowler, however, he is no Ashwin.
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On the contrary, he is exactly like Ashwin
 
From multiple threads on Yasir being better than Ashwin and being the heir to Warnie, to him being thrown out of the team... Phewww! It doesnt take much for some Pakistani fans
 
Doesn't help at all when the keeper and the fielders keep dropping catches and missing stumpings. That's for sure.
 
Slog said:
On the contrary, he is exactly like Ashwin
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2013-14 Ashwin, not 2016-17. The myth that Yasir = Ashwin will soon be busted after the Yasir > Ashwin myth.

Ashwin is no Warne/Muralitharan but he is becoming a complete spinner now, and is mastering the art of deceiving the batsman in flight, something Yasir lacks at the moment. He is also incapable of bowling dry - on course to scoring his third double-hundred in 7 games, which is awful. Ashwin has never been so expensive so consistently.

So far in all the countries where both have bowled, Yasir has been better in England only and that doesn't take into account the level Ashwin is at now. He has taken his bowling to the next level in the last year or so.

Anyhow, only a matter of time. India have overseas tours coming up from 2018 onwards.
 
Junaids said:
Abdul Qadir, Murali and Ashwin were useless in Australia.

Swann had his career ended here.

Anil Kumble had several dreadful series before one good one.

The problem is that Misbah disrespected the history of cricket and deluded himself that Yasir Shah would break the trend.
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The most sensible post. Your spinner won't win you games in Australia, he needs to be used as a defensive bowler. Yasir is a very committed cricketer, he and Wahab are the only ones putting in some effort.
 
Bewal Express said:
For me Usama is like Yasir, no leg spin. I know it's an obvious statement but a leg spinner that doesn't turn the ball will struggle, people point to Kumble but he was an exception, rather than the rule.
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Sharp turn and bounce resulted in Ramiz Raja and Mohammad Waqas's dismissal.

[UTUBE]nAQ1JTxPHyk[/UTUBE]
 
People are asking for the Number 1 Leg Spinner in the world to be dropped and replaced by some Rookie from Domestics who has never played International Test Matches

Good Lord! :facepalm:

Is it too much for people to understand that players can have dips in form and not everyone is successful everywhere.

The issue in NZ and AUS is the Fast Bowlers not taking wickets, not your leggie running through sides on the 1st day of a Test Match
 
Mamoon said:
2013-14 Ashwin, not 2016-17. The myth that Yasir = Ashwin will soon be busted after the Yasir > Ashwin myth.

Ashwin is no Warne/Muralitharan but he is becoming a complete spinner now, and is mastering the art of deceiving the batsman in flight, something Yasir lacks at the moment. He is also incapable of bowling dry - on course to scoring his third double-hundred in 7 games, which is awful. Ashwin has never been so expensive so consistently.

So far in all the countries where both have bowled, Yasir has been better in England only and that doesn't take into account the level Ashwin is at now. He has taken his bowling to the next level in the last year or so.

Anyhow, only a matter of time. India have overseas tours coming up from 2018 onwards.
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1. Ashwin has a considerable sample set so there is no need to go on potential performances because precedence is there. So I am sorry I can't automatically bump him up before he performs in England/Aus etc.

2. You are failing to take into account that Yasir can improve further aswell after this experience
 
Slog said:
1. Ashwin has a considerable sample set so there is no need to go on potential performances because precedence is there. So I am sorry I can't automatically bump him up before he performs in England/Aus etc.

2. You are failing to take into account that Yasir can improve further aswell after this experience
Click to expand...

Though Ravichandran Ashwin does not turn the ball viciously but he does get considerable turn. Mark my words pen it down Ashwin will make the List of Warne, Muralitharan & McGill. His overseas record will improve significantly provided he stays fit and remains focussed because He has all the tools in his armoury and is an intelligent indivisual and bowler.

In two years we have not seen Yasir been able to turn his leggies more, develop a flipper or make his googly lethal.


Ashwin has broadened his varieties and his control has improved further.

I agree with Mamoon this Ashwin is not Ashwin of 2014 and I ll say with both Bat and Ball.
 
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Against a much more experienced and better line up look at Bishoo's Strike Rate.
 

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Bewal Express said:
Yasir is finished as a test bowler against decent batsman. Maybe you can enlighten me as to how he will take the wickets of good batsmen?
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This would b first time, I m listening that a bowler is finished in just 5 matches.
He ll continue to take wickets, just like he was doing before these 5 tests
 
I knew he would get exposed badly outside of UAE. Never rated him that much
 
I think Pakistan needs a spinner to replace him in overseas matches only. Someone who can actually turn the ball.

Yasir is fine in UAE or asian conditions.
 
Was Ashwin dropped after a poor Australian series? You don't drop players after a couple of bad series especially someone who has done as well as Yasir has.
 
He needs his mentor back. Looks clueless when Mushy's not around.
 
Not Yasir's fault.

The Aus pitches are extremely flat and spinners have no chance there.

You need pacers willing to bend their back and a captain who shows tons of patience to win over there.

Typical Pak fans. I expected Pak bowlers to fail miserably on these wickets. Throwing away Yasiramd Amir means that your team will not win matches even in UAE.
 
Asim2Good said:
This would b first time, I m listening that a bowler is finished in just 5 matches.
He ll continue to take wickets, just like he was doing before these 5 tests
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This non turning version is finished but as others have quite rightly pointed out, he can improve. It's not that he hasn't taken wickets, he doesn't look like taking wickets.
 
Slog said:
1. Ashwin has a considerable sample set so there is no need to go on potential performances because precedence is there. So I am sorry I can't automatically bump him up before he performs in England/Aus etc.

2. You are failing to take into account that Yasir can improve further aswell after this experience
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Okay, keep considering Yasir equal of Ashwin till the latter tours again. As far as Yasir's improvement is concerned, he is 30 years old with a dodgy back and a basic skill-set. Not sure if he has the time and age on his side to develop variations at this stage. On the contrary, Ashwin who is the same age as Yasir, is now a complete spinner.
 
Bewal Express said:
It won't be too long before Yasir is dropped, the guy doesn't turn the ball and his control has gone. Other than Asghar, who are the potential replacements? Shadab was decent in the U19 WC but is 3 years away from being ready, but outside that, the cupboard looks bare. Any other suggestions?
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Pakistan should have invested in Shahzaib Ahmed. He was the most talented leg spinner in Pakistan but Abdul Qadir's son was given preference over him in U19 :facepalm:. Still its not too late. Get Shahzaib Ahmed in NCA and hire Mushtaq Ahmed to train him and other leg spinners.
 
I don't think 'Yasir is continuing to decline' in any way, he's just out of form and in unfamiliar conditions for the first time
he hasn't adapted as well as he should have, but that doesn't mean he's declining

but I do agree that we need to be building a bench, especially when we have young talent available like Gohar, Asghar and others

this really should've been done in the UAE, but once again Pakistan just went with what worked without experimenting whatsoever
 
Give him 1 decent pacer to support him and he will take 4-6 wickets a game
 
It's just the first day of the match.

At least wait for the remaining 4 days before passing judgement on him.
 
Lmao. Yes he's been exposed but you don't just replace a guy who is still you best bowler overall and match winner over the last year.
 
Mamoon said:
He hasn't declined. He is just not as good as some people thought he is. I demand apologies from the suspects who criticized me for not buying into the hype.

He is still a match-winner in the UAE and comfortably our best bowler, however, he is no Ashwin.
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Sir what were Ashwin's, Murali's and Swann's numbers in Australia.

Please tell me I'm dying to know.
 
Syed1 said:
Sir what were Ashwin's, Murali's and Swann's numbers in Australia.

Please tell me I'm dying to know.
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But he was suppose to be the best spinner in the world? better than ashwin. Now we're comparing him to ashwin? who btw did not get carted for 100+ runs in 3 consecutive matches, 2 of them 200+
 
Mamoon said:
He hasn't declined. He is just not as good as some people thought he is. I demand apologies from the suspects who criticized me for not buying into the hype.

He is still a match-winner in the UAE and comfortably our best bowler, however, he is no Ashwin.
Click to expand...

Ashwin has a poor record outside subcontinent as well barring WI that too because WI is poor
 
static said:
But he was suppose to be the best spinner in the world? better than ashwin. Now we're comparing him to ashwin? who btw did not get carted for 100+ runs in 3 consecutive matches, 2 of them 200+
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Well numbers of runs being hit on you is a very shallow analysis. Did they bowl same number of overs?
 
Syed1 said:
Well numbers of runs being hit on you is a very shallow analysis. Did they bowl same number of overs?
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Ashwin bowled 171 overs and went for 3.4 runs in the whole series in 14/15 in 5 innings, and bowler 168 over and again went for 3.4 an over in 11/12 in 5 innings. Yasir has bowled 124 overs in 4 innings and has gone for 4.2 runs an over. In 14/15 he only went at over 5 an over in one innings and the rest he was below 3.5. In 11/12 he didn't go for more the 4 an over even once. Yasir has gone for more than 4 an over in all innings bar 1. And to top this all off Ashwin took more wickets and averages less.
 
I actually thought Ashwin bowled very well in Australia 2 years back. Yes he went for a bit more runs but did manage to pick quite a few wickets despite not getting to bowl in the most spin friendly wicket of that series.

In the last 3 matches he played, the joint highest wicket takers were

Hazelwood - 12
Shami - 12
Ashwin - 12.

That is more than a decent record for a finger spinner, who don't quite get the same purchase from the Australian roads as leggies usually do. He also did well in the limited chances he got in England. The only place where he flopped totally was in South Africa where he really had a nightmare in the lone test he played at Joburg.
 
silent ischemia said:
Ashwin has a poor record outside subcontinent as well barring WI that too because WI is poor
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And that poor record is mainly due to 6 tests in Aus. In fact, he actually bowled tremendously well in 2014 amid absolute carnage at the other end. In fact, his control with the ball ALLOWED India to save 2 tests (of course our batting clicked but if he was thrashed, it wouldn't have been enough). Was on track to get a 6fer or more in Sydney and didn't play in Adelaide turner too.

Get ANY spinner other than Warne and make them bowl in modern day pitches of Aus for 6 tests and compare their performances.

Other than that, where else was Ashwin poor?

SA? Sure...in the only Joberg test he played. He was poor.

England? The place where he got 2 innings to bowl after India got bowled out for 150 odd and he ended up getting 0/30 and 3/72....how would have even actual legends like Warne and Murali fared with such limited chances in Eng and the team under the pump?
 
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Yasir still has one more inning to redeem himself.

So far, he got destroyed. Aus pitches are graveyards for spinners. Even the best of them got owned.
 
Replaced? Wow some of you lot are fickle. Give the guy a break. First test series in Oz and ya'll want him out?
 
He is the only bowler who won matches in recent years. Yah, he is not effective on non-turning pitches due to not having variety , but he is still the best bowler from Pakistan.
 
Ashwin actually didn't bowl that bad in Aus. I think he provided some control when Aus was scoring quickly on other end. Yasir leaks too many runs and he is bowling without control. Anyway, Ashwin has a lot more variety so he can control flow of runs most of the times. Thata's the reason for Ashwin to play in ODI and Yasir to not play in ODI.
 
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Mamoon said:
He hasn't declined. He is just not as good as some people thought he is. I demand apologies from the suspects who criticized me for not buying into the hype.

He is still a match-winner in the UAE and comfortably our best bowler, however, he is no Ashwin.
Click to expand...

Butttt you also boarded that train and went on to accept all the claims. Even saying you were wrong.

That means everyone was deceived. :najam

I always had this feeling that Yasir isn't really a threat. But UAE exploits and some flukes in England turned me.
 
Mamoon said:
He hasn't declined. He is just not as good as some people thought he is. I demand apologies from the suspects who criticized me for not buying into the hype.

He is still a match-winner in the UAE and comfortably our best bowler, however, he is no Ashwin.
Click to expand...

True he can single highhandedly win games in England and has more of a chance making an impact as a match winner away, ATG's go through a couple of bad patches but class is permanent.
 
Junaids said:
Abdul Qadir, Murali and Ashwin were useless in Australia.

Swann had his career ended here.

Anil Kumble had several dreadful series before one good one.

The problem is that Misbah disrespected the history of cricket and deluded himself that Yasir Shah would break the trend.
Click to expand...

Some excellent points, people look at Yasir performances without context though unfortunately, the poor fields don't help either but Yasir hasn't bowled well but he will get better with more experience in such conditions
 
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It's not the end of the world for Yasir.

However has to learn how to bowl in bounce pitches or else he won't play in 90% of outside Asia games (can't be boom or bust as a spinner). Also has to turn his leggies. OP has been saying that even when Yasir was at the top of the ranking.

Yasir could get a 5fer (or 4fer) in Sydney 2nd innings (pitch will turn) if Pakistan batting scores enough.

I am interested to see how he goes about in bounce pitches where there is turn.
 
Going through an entire series at a bowling average of 70 is not 'a couple of bad patches' it's downright dismal performance. Yasir is not even a great let alone an all time great! Haha ATG really? what a joke!
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
It's not the end of the world for Yasir.

However has to learn how to bowl in bounce pitches or else he won't play in 90% of outside Asia games (can't be boom or bust as a spinner). Also has to turn his leggies. OP has been saying that even when Yasir was at the top of the ranking.

Yasir could get a 5fer (or 4fer) in Sydney 2nd innings (pitch will turn) if Pakistan batting scores enough.

I am interested to see how he goes about in bounce pitches where there is turn.
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It is true that I have been saying this before his slump in wickets. And this series has sadly proved my point. I could foresee the problems that lay ahead. BTW it gives me no pleasure as when I met him, he is a wonderful lad.
 
If Pakistan kicks out Yasir, they will stop winning in UAE too. Will be a stupid move.
 
Ashwin's first series in Australia - 62.77
2nd series in OZ -average of 48.66

Yasir's average in Australia - 73.2 and climbing higher.

How exactly are yasir and ashwin the same? Also economy rates matter. Ashwin had an economy of around 3.3 for both tours i think but yasir has gone over 4 an over. Comfortably worse than Ash in my opinion especially when you consider that yasir has a better pace attack to support him.
 
There is no decline, he's just getting buried like all spinners do in Australia, watch how he does in WI.
 
Touring spinners haven't been doing very good since 1990 in Australia. Therefore, he isn't declining. And IMO I don't think current Asian spinner can do very good Overseas.

spnaus.JPG
 
leatherface58 said:
Was Ashwin dropped after a poor Australian series? You don't drop players after a couple of bad series especially someone who has done as well as Yasir has.
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Yes he was in 2012. He made way for Jadeja after the JoBurg disaster
 
Hawkeye said:
Butttt you also boarded that train and went on to accept all the claims. Even saying you were wrong.

That means everyone was deceived. :najam

I always had this feeling that Yasir isn't really a threat. But UAE exploits and some flukes in England turned me.
Click to expand...

I got pressurized. Should have stuck to my gut feeling/first impression which is correct.
 
Syed1 said:
Sir what were Ashwin's, Murali's and Swann's numbers in Australia.

Please tell me I'm dying to know.
Click to expand...

Their failures don't justify Yasir's, and they didn't get smashed consistently like Yasir.

Yasir is getting the Tahir treatment in Australia. Absolutely disaster and sheer embarrassment.
 
He is still Pakistan's best bowler and not having him in UAE or anywhere on dry pitches is asking for trouble.
 
Was a very good bowler, sadly lost all his zip since the England series, thanks to the countless overs bowled by him. He should get a 6 month rest and fix his bowling rhythm, will be back rejuvenated, hopefully under a captain who has a few brain cells.
 
^While he wasn't handled the best way, not fair to blame Misbah for all his issues.

Even in England (where he was at his best), he started off in a legendary way in Lord's then averaged 100+ in the next 2 tests before finishing off with an Oval special in final innings.

He was bowled to the ground over the last few months but that's not the only problem with him. The core issue is that he needs to develop more weapons in his arsenal to control the game better if wickets can't be taken.

By the way, as it turns out, the 6-3 leg side field was his idea. Or he was atleast okay with it. He is a bit uni-dimensional now which is why he has such highs and lows.

Had some catches dropped off his bowling in Sydney which adds insult to injury.
 
No need to drop him lol. Every bowler's due a bad series somewhere in their career. He's been overbowled and clearly looks fatigued. Not having Mushy and a terrible captain leading him hasn't helped.

He's gotta back to NCA and work with Mushy. Just relax and take some time off.

Having said that, we do need to bring in another spinner to partner him. Zafar would be my choice.
 
Bad time to pick minor injury (left leg), hope he recovers soon. Pakistan needs him to perform if Australia gets to bat in second inning.
 
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He is not declining.

He is still a good spinner on turning tracks.

Just needs the right conditions.

If people were expecting a second coming of Shane Warne - then they should look at themselves in the mirror for believing something such as that.
 
Hopefully this has been a learning opportunity for him. Needs to work out how to bowl to left handers
 
He is better than this. Spinners these days need a mentor. Sad that Mushtaq wasn't there with him.
 
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-partner="tweetdeck"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">PCB confirm that Yasir Shah has a (non-serious) hamstring injury on his left leg but will be fine to bowl in the 2nd innings <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/AUSvPAK?src=hash">#AUSvPAK</a></p>— Saj Sadiq (@Saj_PakPassion) <a href="https://twitter.com/Saj_PakPassion/status/816573747700400128">January 4, 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
Injury prone as well, looks like he will fail the longevity test like other Pakistani spinners.
 
Great news. Usama Mir is fit again and is back on field.


I love his Social media handling which I feel he does himself.
 

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