As Yasir Shah continues his decline, who should replace him?

[shaz619]

Kaneria outperformed Yasir in Australia by a heavy margin. Quite underrated in my view, and wasn't managed properly by Inzi. Qadir was greater than what his stats show.

If Kaneria played in this era he would be the no.1 bowler in the world and rarely drop out the top 4 in the test ranking

 

[Bilal7]

I am no Jadeja fan but he's no trundler by any means. Has a 6fer in SA IIRC. Also you have to possess some kind of skills to pick up wickets regularly in the flat tracks that India dish out nowadays. He's outbowled everyone in India.

)

They were extremely flat in the series against South Africa and Australia, yeah.

 

[Mamoon]

Kaneria was one of the greatest spinners we have ever produced.

If it wasn't for Kamran's dodgy keeping and fixing we would easily had 150 wickets more.

He was extremely skilled. Not blessed with the best bowling brain, but it could have been compensated by better captaincy and team tactics. Inzi's captaincy, Woolmer's insistence of not playing a second specialist spinner and Kamran's keeping did him a lot of harm. Still, he won us a lot of matches in the 2000 era.

 

[shaz619]

Kaneria outperformed Yasir in Australia by a heavy margin. Quite underrated in my view, and wasn't managed properly by Inzi. Qadir was greater than what his stats show.

However, Yasir is an exceptional talent individually; debut tour of AUS was an anomoly and an understandable one. Class is permanent though, he is a match winner.

 

[Mamoon]

If Kaneria played in this era he would be the no.1 bowler in the world and rarely drop out the top 4 in the test ranking

He was unlucky not to have played in the UAE era. His combo with the Chucker would have been devastating.

 

[Hawkeye]

He was unlucky not to have played in the UAE era. His combo with the Chucker would have been devastating.

He did play in Pak. Spinner's paradise.

Unless you try to claim it's poor for spinners.

 

[shaz619]

He was unlucky not to have played in the UAE era. His combo with the Chucker would have been devastating.

Very true, plus I'd expect him to do well away from home as well and establish himself as the greatest Pakistan spinner ever

 

[Mamoon]

They got hit around too, when the pitch had nothing in it for spinners because leggies are made like that. Yasir Shah is the best spinner in the world. I suggest you accept this reality before Ashwin and Jadeja get mauled on their African safari later this year. You've eaten enough humble pie as it is, might get fat.

Neither were as crippled outside their comfort-zones as Yasir. It is about time you acknowledge his weaknesses, because denial will only bring more disappointment which are you good at hiding. However, we both know that he fell leagues below your expectations in Australia.

Yes he is the best spinner in the world, just like Amla is the second best ODI opener of all time and Junaid is still a top bowler, and Inzi is the best selector in Pakistan history.

 

[Mamoon]

He did play in Pak. Spinner's paradise.

Unless you try to claim it's poor for spinners.

And he did very well in spite of being inhibited due to certain external factors which I have mentioned already.

 

[Rotoman]

)

They were extremely flat in the series against South Africa and Australia, yeah.

They were extremely flat in the series against ENG, NZ and in parts in the series against Aus, Ranchi for example where the only bowler that ever looked threatening was Jadeja. The series against SA was rank turners obviously.

The series against ENG, he averaged 25 at a measly 2.3 econ. That's pretty impressive when you consider the disdain the tracks had for bowlers.

 

[Bilal7]

Neither were as crippled outside their comfort-zones as Yasir. It is about time you acknowledge his weaknesses, because denial will only bring more disappointment which are you good at hiding. However, we both know that he fell leagues below your expectations in Australia.

Yes he is the best spinner in the world, just like Amla is the second best ODI opener of all time and Junaid is still a top bowler, and Inzi is the best selector in Pakistan history.

All four of those statements are true and I acknowledge Yasir's weaknesses all the time. He's not as good as Ajmal in any format and behind Saqlain, Qadir and perhaps Kaneria as well from our spinners. However, he is better than two Indian spinners who have been spoon-fed all their wickets on tracks custom-made for them, who have zero performances outside their comfort-zones (barring that one five-for) and even go missing on some flat tracks at home (such as Ashwin's averages against England).

 

[Rotoman]

All four of those statements are true and I acknowledge Yasir's weaknesses all the time. He's not as good as Ajmal in any format and behind Saqlain, Qadir and perhaps Kaneria as well from our spinners. However, he is better than two Indian spinners who have been spoon-fed all their wickets on tracks custom-made for them, who have zero performances outside their comfort-zones (barring that one five-for) and even go missing on some flat tracks at home (such as Ashwin's averages against England).

If you are going to discount Jadeja's one fifer, Shah also only has 2 fifers away from home. These guys are all dismal away from lol. It's funny that you keep mentioning Shah as some 'away' messiah.

 

[dildildalwalla]

If you are going to discount Jadeja's one fifer, Shah also only has 2 fifers away from home. These guys are all dismal away from lol. It's funny that you keep mentioning Shah as some 'away' messiah.

He has a ten for away, the only one by a spinner at Lords and won them the game. Came on in that final test and won them another game. Never gets to play at home in front of home support and with home comforts either. The most wickets by any test bolwer after 18 matches etc etc

Record breaker, match winner and most importantly, a joy to watch.

Jadeja is definitely a handful and much bettert han Ashwin in ODIs so yeah he is India's best bowler overall but he has none of the guile or skill that Shah has. Not even close. Even you must see that.

 

[Rotoman]

He has a ten for away, the only one by a spinner at Lords and won them the game. Came on in that final test and won them another game. Never gets to play at home in front of home support and with home comforts either. The most wickets by any test bolwer after 18 matches etc etc

Record breaker, match winner and most importantly, a joy to watch.

Jadeja is definitely a handful and much bettert han Ashwin in ODIs so yeah he is India's best bowler overall but he has none of the guile or skill that Shah has. Not even close. Even you must see that.

Theoretically Yasir is more equipped to deal away from home than Jadeja. Jadeja's always going to be a hack away from favourable conditions because he's a dart thrower but he's been pretty immense in flat tracks so how he'll fair in SA will give a better idea.

If you are going to say that Shah getting a fifer means 'he has won them the game' then by that same token he has also 'lost them the game' in the matches where he gave away 200+ runs picking barely any wickets and going at 5 an over. So he has what won Pakistan 2 matches and then lost them 2 matches as well. He's broke even.

 

[The_Odd_One]

Not sure what the excitement is for. All spinners do well on Caribbean pitches, which are extremely conductive. Yasir predictably got exposed on our tough overseas tours last year, and that is when he lost his aura. Unless the conditions favour him, he is a complete liability because he turns into a kitten when the opposition attack him. Doesn't know how to control the run rate.

The battering in Sydney says it all. Economy Rate of 8 in the second innings.

Yet Ashwin is an iconic cricketer who is breaking records on...... wait for it....conducive wickets of India.

 

[Slog]

and Jadeja has a 6-fer in SA where Yasir would probably struggle. Point is there are outliers and one off performances. Ultimately, all three struggle to take wickets outside of their comfort-zone, but only of them gets ripped apart. However, I am keen to see how Jadeja performs on the next overseas cycle. He is as accurate as a laser, could do well. Similarly, Ashwin has improved as a bowler since 2014. Yasir got plenty of free scalps at Lord's, but yes bowled beautifully at The Oval. However, his lows have been quite depressing as well.

You know the argument doesn't have merit when you're bringing a third player in

The simple fact is that your argument are based on what ifs and assumptions such as 'Yasir will probably fail in SA,' 'Ashwin has improved and will do better on second and third tries' etc etc

We have a sample set already and based on that Ashwin has been totally ineffective outside his comfort zone and at the best he can play a containing role which doesn't help a side like India on overseas tours. Basically don't bet money on Ashwin winning you any matches such as Yasir did in Oval and Lord. Yasir has a tendency to get smashed when the conditions don't favor and dominating batsmen are in the opposition, like many leg spinners before him.

Overall both have been disappointing abroad but only one has shown any capability of having a match winning streak.

In any case Ashwin had a terrible first tour of Australia. In his second tour of Australia he did better. Didn't take many wickets or set the world alight but bowled good lines and at times put pressure on the opposition even gf figures were still mediocre. Maybe on his third try he might finally crack it in Australia like Kumble did. Nothing to suggest Ashwin can dominate in England or South Africa

 

[Mamoon]

You know the argument doesn't have merit when you're bringing a third player in

The simple fact is that your argument are based on what ifs and assumptions such as 'Yasir will probably fail in SA,' 'Ashwin has improved and will do better on second and third tries' etc etc

We have a sample set already and based on that Ashwin has been totally ineffective outside his comfort zone and at the best he can play a containing role which doesn't help a side like India on overseas tours. Basically don't bet money on Ashwin winning you any matches such as Yasir did in Oval and Lord. Yasir has a tendency to get smashed when the conditions don't favor and dominating batsmen are in the opposition, like many leg spinners before him.

Overall both have been disappointing abroad but only one has shown any capability of having a match winning streak.

In any case Ashwin had a terrible first tour of Australia. In his second tour of Australia he did better. Didn't take many wickets or set the world alight but bowled good lines and at times put pressure on the opposition even gf figures were still mediocre. Maybe on his third try he might finally crack it in Australia like Kumble did. Nothing to suggest Ashwin can dominate in England or South Africa

I brought Jadeja in because I think it is time he gets the recognition as these two do. He has done more than enough to be considered a front-line spinner. To be honest, I would have him in my team over both Ashwin and Yasir. For some reason, he reminds me of a young Saqlain these days.

 

[Bilal7]

If you are going to discount Jadeja's one fifer, Shah also only has 2 fifers away from home. These guys are all dismal away from lol. It's funny that you keep mentioning Shah as some 'away' messiah.

Shah has a 10-fer away from home and another five-fer away from home. I won't count the West Indies in "away from home" because those pitches are spin-friendly these days. Shah is better than Ashwin and Jadeja combined, overseas, and just as good in Asia.

 

[Bilal7]

He has a ten for away, the only one by a spinner at Lords and won them the game. Came on in that final test and won them another game. Never gets to play at home in front of home support and with home comforts either. The most wickets by any test bolwer after 18 matches etc etc

Record breaker, match winner and most importantly, a joy to watch.

Jadeja is definitely a handful and much bettert han Ashwin in ODIs so yeah he is India's best bowler overall but he has none of the guile or skill that Shah has. Not even close. Even you must see that.

Top post. I like Jadeja too and he is India's premier spinner these days. [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] has egg on his face again because Ravi "ATG" Ashwin isn't even the best spinner in his own team and he just said it himself.

 

[Mamoon]

Top post. I like Jadeja too and he is India's premier spinner these days. [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] has egg on his face again because Ravi "ATG" Ashwin isn't even the best spinner in his own team and he just said it himself.

India have the two best spinners in the world at the moment. Jadeja edges Ashwin on current form, but it can change in the next few months. Unlike you, I don't support individuals and thus, I do not refrain from giving credit where it is due. I don't support Ashwin or Jadeja because of who they are; I only rate them for their performances. Jadeja is ahead of Ashwin at the moment, just like Ashwin is ahead of Yasir at the moment.

Jadeja > Ashwin > Yasir. Of course, it can change in the future.

 

[Chief Destroyer]

He did play in Pak. Spinner's paradise.

Unless you try to claim it's poor for spinners.

Pakistan wickets are not a spinner's paradise. Don't confuse them with Indian wickets. Pakistani wickets are the flattest in the world. There are some exceptions occasionally but we've never had or produced raging turners. This is why we've always produce highly skilled bowlers.

 

[Bilal7]

India have the two best spinners in the world at the moment. Jadeja edges Ashwin on current form, but it can change in the next few months. Unlike you, I don't support individuals and thus, I do not refrain from giving credit where it is due. I don't support Ashwin or Jadeja because of who they are; I only rate them for their performances. Jadeja is ahead of Ashwin at the moment, just like Ashwin is ahead of Yasir at the moment.

Jadeja > Ashwin > Yasir. Of course, it can change in the future.

So is Jadeja a future ATG too? India are so blessed.

 

[The_Odd_One]

So is Jadeja a future ATG too? India are so blessed.

Add Mishra too.

Jadeja > Ashwin > Mishra > Yasir

 

[Mamoon]

So is Jadeja a future ATG too? India are so blessed.

If Ashwin and Jadeja continue like this at home, they will finish in the Kumble category. However, they will need to improve on their overseas performances to become proper ATGs. Same goes for Yasir. Jadeja's age and fitness means he should outlast both.

 

[Mamoon]

Add Mishra too.

Jadeja > Ashwin > Mishra > Yasir

Mishra is better than Yasir in LOIs only.

 

[Rotoman]

Lol Mishra better than Yasir in tests, now I've heard it all. Jadeja and Ashwin I agree, but Mishra? Come on.

 

[Bilal7]

Lol Mishra better than Yasir in tests, now I've heard it all. Jadeja and Ashwin I agree, but Mishra? Come on.

If you push him, he'll say that Kuldeep is better than Yasir too. Already rates Kohli a better test batsman than Younis Khan and Inzamam ul Haq and says that Mohammad Amir, Junaid Khan and Wahab Riaz should make Ishant Sharma their bowling role-model.

 

[Rotoman]

If you push him, he'll say that Kuldeep is better than Yasir too. Already rates Kohli a better test batsman than Younis Khan and Inzamam ul Haq and says that Mohammad Amir, Junaid Khan and Wahab Riaz should make Ishant Sharma their bowling role-model.

I was replying to the_odd_one actually who presumably said Mishra is better than Yasir in tests. Mishra however is better all 3 of them combined in LOIs though, that I agree with Mamoon.

 

[Arsalan Pro]

He is the best Test spinner in Pakistan currently and should play permanently with the second spinner playing in spin friendly conditions.

 

[Flat_Track_Bully]

Such a premature thread. He is the best leg spinner in the world.

 

[hk031992]

India have the two best spinners in the world at the moment. Jadeja edges Ashwin on current form, but it can change in the next few months. Unlike you, I don't support individuals and thus, I do not refrain from giving credit where it is due. I don't support Ashwin or Jadeja because of who they are; I only rate them for their performances. Jadeja is ahead of Ashwin at the moment, just like Ashwin is ahead of Yasir at the moment.

Jadeja > Ashwin > Yasir. Of course, it can change in the future.

When either Ashwin or Jadeja win a game for India abroad against a good team like Yasir did in England, then come back

Yasir >>>> Jadeja > Ashwin

 

[dildildalwalla]

Theoretically Yasir is more equipped to deal away from home than Jadeja. Jadeja's always going to be a hack away from favourable conditions because he's a dart thrower but he's been pretty immense in flat tracks so how he'll fair in SA will give a better idea.

If you are going to say that Shah getting a fifer means 'he has won them the game' then by that same token he has also 'lost them the game' in the matches where he gave away 200+ runs picking barely any wickets and going at 5 an over. So he has what won Pakistan 2 matches and then lost them 2 matches as well. He's broke even.

I don't think Shah has ever gone 5 an over in a completed test innings. He has however, gone for lots of runs at times but then again, he has bowled close to or more than 30 overs at a time. That's an immense work load, spinner or not. However, most of that is a recent development and his numbers are some of the best for a bowler, in this number of tests.

Now, in terms of you equating one thing for another, that's not how life works. Shah won the first test because without his 10 wickets, England could have drawn it if not won. Picking 2 for 110 lets say (made those numbers up) does not automatically equate to a lost test because if you watch those test matches and not just cricinfo them, you will see that the Pakistani batsmen often let the side down.

It is childish logic to say "because one thing, so another". Put everything into its proper context.

There is one test that I will say Shah almost single handedly lost for Pak and that was the first one in Aus...but it was as a batsman.

 

[Xoib]

Herath wipes the floor with Ashwin, Jadeja and Yasir. Another poster on another forum made a very good comment on the Indian duo he said calling them greats would be calling Anderson better then Mcgrath on the basis that Anderson gets to play every test on daamp Trent Bridge track under overcast skies.

 

[ethan hunt]

Its terriibly lazy to compare pakistani wickets withe the indian ones .
Pakistani wickets are flat pancakes where harbhajjan couldnt get a wicket to save his life while in india the likes of shahid afridi average 23 against an atg indian batting lineup to go with a batting average of 38 . If india was his homeground he would have been the modern day garfield sobers .

Ashwin and jadeja are decent bowlers but their averages are massively misleasing . The batsmen these days cant play spin to save his life . Its astounding how many wickets yasir gets bowling the same way.

 

[Rotoman]

I don't think Shah has ever gone 5 an over in a completed test innings. He has however, gone for lots of runs at times but then again, he has bowled close to or more than 30 overs at a time. That's an immense work load, spinner or not. However, most of that is a recent development and his numbers are some of the best for a bowler, in this number of tests.

Now, in terms of you equating one thing for another, that's not how life works. Shah won the first test because without his 10 wickets, England could have drawn it if not won. Picking 2 for 110 lets say (made those numbers up) does not automatically equate to a lost test because if you watch those test matches and not just cricinfo them, you will see that the Pakistani batsmen often let the side down.

It is childish logic to say "because one thing, so another". Put everything into its proper context.

There is one test that I will say Shah almost single handedly lost for Pak and that was the first one in Aus...but it was as a batsman.

Nope.

It's not childish at all. If you are saying that the statement that 'he won us the match' based on a fifer or tenfer is childish, then that maybe understandable.

But if not, him giving away 266 runs for the match, picking up 1 wicket and going at an economy of 4.2 by aggregate is 'him losing the match'. You can't just pick and choose things by how they suit your narrative.

 

[Abdullah719]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Most Test wickets after 25 Tests:<br>Barnes 167<br>Waqar Younis/Grimmett 143<br>Yasir Shah 141<a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Cricket?src=hash">#Cricket</a></p>— Saj Sadiq (@Saj_PakPassion) <a href="https://twitter.com/Saj_PakPassion/status/860139434511085569">May 4, 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[saeed5646]

WOah amazing from Yasir Shah

 

[Abdullah719]

He's doing fine though he could lose some weight...

 

[DRsohail]

i think after this FC season shadab will be ready for tests.,we have shahzaib ahmad and Muhammad irfan as well...and usama mir is snother option,,,so replacements are there but needs polishing..

 

[DRsohail]

India have the two best spinners in the world at the moment. Jadeja edges Ashwin on current form, but it can change in the next few months. Unlike you, I don't support individuals and thus, I do not refrain from giving credit where it is due. I don't support Ashwin or Jadeja because of who they are; I only rate them for their performances. Jadeja is ahead of Ashwin at the moment, just like Ashwin is ahead of Yasir at the moment.

Jadeja > Ashwin > Yasir. Of course, it can change in the future.

lolz.big lol...jadeja is better than ashwin and yasir ..hilarious,,,he will be above yasir in ranking but everyone knows,it,,

 

[Bewal Express]

I have to say that Yasir has improved with his leg spinner- its actually spinning off the straight. My main criticism of his bowling was that he relied on low bounce and the straight one which worked well in the UAE but it didnt work against good batsman on bouncier tracks. I think Yasir will start to cause the better players problems outside the UAE.

 

[imshally81]

Yasir Shah is a ever green spinner...

 

[Rayyman]

Always gets fifers