Atheism is the last refuge for a person who can't defend his religion

The Bald Eagle

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Let not your biases blind your judgement is a simple advice for every atheist reading this piece

Atheism is the last refuge for a person who can't defend his religion simply suggests that atheists ultimately cling to their original beliefs while criticizing religious traditions. This perspective implies that atheism arises not from a genuine philosophical stance but as a reaction to the inability to defend inherited religious beliefs and thus atheists fail to accede defeat to their identity and religion.

Atheists often argue that their stance is rooted in reason and evidence rather than emotional or cultural ties to religion. Prominent atheists emphasize the importance of observable, objective evidence for claims about deities, advocating for a rational approach to understanding existence. They argue that many people adopt religious beliefs for psychological comfort, which complicates the transition to atheism. Atheists contend that merely attacking religious beliefs does not lead to conversion; instead, one must demonstrate the unnecessary nature of these beliefs

Furthermore, the rise of "New Atheism" has showcased a more vocal critique of religion, asserting that religious frameworks can hinder rational thought and scientific inquiry. While some may perceive atheism as a refuge for those unable to defend their faith, it is essential to recognize that many atheists engage deeply with philosophical questions, seeking truth through reason rather than clinging to past beliefs.

The Complexity of Cultural Identity

Cultural Heritage:For many individuals, religion is intertwined with cultural identity. An atheist may critique organized religion while still feeling a connection to the cultural traditions of their forefathers. This can manifest in their cultural pride

Cultural Pride: Celebrating cultural heritage without endorsing the religious beliefs associated with it.
Selective Defense: Defending certain aspects of a cultural or religious tradition that may be seen as positive or beneficial while critiquing others

Cognitive Dissonance:This duality can lead to cognitive dissonance, where individuals struggle to reconcile their atheistic beliefs with their cultural upbringing. They may find themselves:

Navigating Conflicts: Balancing respect for their heritage with a rejection of its religious components.

Seeking Common Ground: Finding ways to honor their background while advocating for secular values.


The behavior of some atheists who critique other religions while defending elements of their own cultural heritage reflects a nuanced relationship with belief systems. It highlights the importance of understanding individual motivations and the broader context of identity. Engaging in these discussions can foster greater dialogue about faith, culture, and the role they play in shaping our worldviews.


By recognizing these complexities, we can approach conversations about belief and identity with empathy and understanding.

Why do atheists hate Islam more than any other religion??


Research indicates that atheists tend to have a less favorable view of Muslims compared to followers of other religions. A study found that while atheists rated Christians, Buddhists, Jews, and Hindus similarly to their own group, they rated Muslims significantly lower. This trend suggests a notable level of Islamophobia within the atheist community, as atheists were more likely to express negative evaluations toward Muslims than toward adherents of other faiths.

Moreover, this phenomenon may be influenced by broader societal attitudes and the public discourse surrounding Islam, which has been shaped by prominent figures in the atheist movement who have made critical statements about Islam[1]. The findings align with survey data showing that Americans generally view Muslims with similar warmth as atheists, indicating a shared perception of both groups as less favorable compared to other religious communities.Islam

In summary, atheists do not favor Islam more than other religions; rather, they tend to rate it less positively than several other faiths. Although it is also a fact that most number of atheists do turn to Islam after their quest for the truth.

 
The author somehow mentioned Islamophobia in this article, very remarkable that he feels attacked by atheists when atheists are known to attack Christianity the most.

His issue basically is why are atheists targeting Islam , whereas atheists have gone out and converted Christians and Hindus the most.

Almost seemed rambling, the prerogative is on you to produce proof for your religion, not that of atheists.
Maybe he should read into Pastafarians.
 
Focus on its content please. Tbh I have practically seen a manifestation of it multiple times here at PP.
That is very tough for such a childish article without using simple words like I use to explain things to my little daughter. Let me try

god - silly thing
islam - silly concept
hinduism - funny concept
christianity - absurd concept
atheism - doesn't care

Hopefully, that helps.
 
That is very tough for such a childish article without using simple words like I use to explain things to my little daughter. Let me try

god - silly thing
islam - silly concept
hinduism - funny concept
christianity - absurd concept
atheism - doesn't care

Hopefully, that helps.
Lol...so in your opinion what is difference between silly, funny and absurd? Appears to be synonyms.
 
Lol...so in your opinion what is difference between silly, funny and absurd? Appears to be synonyms.
Yes that's true. My general feeling is that most thinking religious folks also sense deep inside that their religions are cute fairy tales with their talks of apsaras, djinns, angels, heaven, hell and other such comedy stuff.

However the faith that their parents taught them is tough to break out of and I guess they're also making Pascal's wager. Why not believe and hope that god will take care of them in the afterlife when the alternative has no real benefits and no real hope?

I understand and sympathise. Which is why I'm never bitter against religious folks.
 
Yes that's true. My general feeling is that most thinking religious folks also sense deep inside that their religions are cute fairy tales with their talks of apsaras, djinns, angels, heaven, hell and other such comedy stuff.

However the faith that their parents taught them is tough to break out of and I guess they're also making Pascal's wager. Why not believe and hope that god will take care of them in the afterlife when the alternative has no real benefits and no real hope?

I understand and sympathise. Which is why I'm never bitter against religious folks.
Not when they want to legislate how the rest of the world should behave WRT to little fairy tales
 
Not when they want to legislate how the rest of the world should behave WRT to little fairy tales
Yes that's the only real issue. When they start feeling it's not enough for them on their own to follow their fairy tale laws. Everyone else and society itself must start following those silly rules.

That's why Buddhists and Jains are my favorites. They're very secure and personal in their religion. It's enough for them to follow their own personal religious rules. They couldn't care less about what the rest of the world does or thinks about them. Christians are close behind nowadays.

Muslims and modern Hindus (the older gen Hindus are fine) are the most annoying. They insist that society has to mold itself around their fairy tales. My natural conflict avoidant nature skirts around it but sometimes you've got to take a stand.
 
Lol it seems like you agree with the OP article. Tbh atheists dislike Muslims because they find it hard to defeat them unlike other religions.

Yes that's the only real issue. When they start feeling it's not enough for them on their own to follow their fairy tale laws. Everyone else and society itself must start following those silly rules.

That's why Buddhists and Jains are my favorites. They're very secure and personal in their religion. It's enough for them to follow their own personal religious rules. They couldn't care less about what the rest of the world does or thinks about them. Christians are close behind nowadays.

Muslims and modern Hindus (the older gen Hindus are fine) are the most annoying. They insist that society has to mold itself around their fairy tales. My natural conflict avoidant nature skirts around it but sometimes you've got to take a stand.

Research indicates that atheists tend to have a less favorable view of Muslims compared to followers of other religions. A study found that while atheists rated Christians, Buddhists, Jews, and Hindus similarly to their own group, they rated Muslims significantly lower. This trend suggests a notable level of Islamophobia within the atheist community, as atheists were more likely to express negative evaluations toward Muslims than toward adherents of other faiths.
 
Lol it seems like you agree with the OP article
Yes I thought made that clear. Maybe it's the proximity effect but my feeling is that Islam and the new Hindu revivalism are the most annoying.

My personal feeling is that the two of you - Islamists and Hindutva fanatics will be close allies - buddy-buddies against the onslaught of liberalism, 'woke'ness and atheism within the next 40-50 years.
 
Yes I thought made that clear. Maybe it's the proximity effect but my feeling is that Islam and the new Hindu revivalism are the most annoying.

My personal feeling is that the two of you - Islamists and Hindutva fanatics will be close allies - buddy-buddies against the onslaught of liberalism, 'woke'ness and atheism within the next 40-50 years.
Let's see currently both are at daggers end especially in India.
 
Yes I thought made that clear. Maybe it's the proximity effect but my feeling is that Islam and the new Hindu revivalism are the most annoying.

My personal feeling is that the two of you - Islamists and Hindutva fanatics will be close allies - buddy-buddies against the onslaught of liberalism, 'woke'ness and atheism within the next 40-50 years.
Please define it. Want to understand your definition and understanding of it.
 
One of the most troubling beliefs, in my opinion, is atheism, as it often seems centered around challenging the beliefs of others.
they are mostly like the disgruntled Karens who want to speak with your manager. the difference being some of them are not female (physically) and they just don't agree with anything anyone has to say ever about anything. They always want a full refund... after having used the product.
 
One of the most troubling beliefs, in my opinion, is atheism, as it often seems centered around challenging the beliefs of others.
Not all atheists do that. Of the dozens of atheists on this forum, there's maybe 2 or 3 who go around challenging the beliefs of believers. I certainly have opened no thread or made no post challenging religious beliefs

I'd also say this thread shows that you religious guys have your own bad apples who pointlessly provoke atheists.

I've put this example out here before but I treat genuine religious belief like I used to used to treat my daughter's belief in Santa Claus when she was 5. As long as it doesn't harm anyone else and keeps her happy, I have zero issues.
 
Stephen Hawking wont be able to convince you flat earther types. Who are we kidding?
Me and flat earther 😂🤣👏

You guys are science deniers. Not me.

Science is about understanding world through experimentation and evidence.

Religion works by blind faith and no evidence.
 
Me and flat earther 😂🤣👏

You guys are science deniers. Not me.

Science is about understanding world through experimentation and evidence.

Religion works by blind faith and no evidence.
Oh I am sorry, I did not realize there was a whole lot of difference between flt earthers and stationary sun believers. You guys must be first cousins or something.. very similar in beliefs and ideas.


But you are definitely an odd one out. First you are a flt earther, then you are an atheist. then you are probably and most likely brown as well. and a guy (supposedly)

So you are a flat earther male desi version of a Karen who does not believe in God. I mean ... phew.. I bet Freud is salivating up in heavens. He would have loved to put you on a couch.
 
Not all atheists do that. Of the dozens of atheists on this forum, there's maybe 2 or 3 who go around challenging the beliefs of believers. I certainly have opened no thread or made no post challenging religious beliefs

I'd also say this thread shows that you religious guys have your own bad apples who pointlessly provoke atheists.

I've put this example out here before but I treat genuine religious belief like I used to used to treat my daughter's belief in Santa Claus when she was 5. As long as it doesn't harm anyone else and keeps her happy, I have zero issues.
No one questions if your faith related stories exist in your own head.

The problem comes when these same stories are presented as factual evidence to the existence of their creator. Any educated person would challenge that those irrational concepts.
 
Oh I am sorry, I did not realize there was a whole lot of difference between flt earthers and stationary sun believers. You guys must be first cousins or something.. very similar in beliefs and ideas.


But you are definitely an odd one out. First you are a flt earther, then you are an atheist. then you are probably and most likely brown as well. and a guy (supposedly)

So you are a flat earther male desi version of a Karen who does not believe in God. I mean ... phew.. I bet Freud is salivating up in heavens. He would have loved to put you on a couch.
You are back to trolling once again. It is beyond your understanding.

Anyways, send me verified pictures of the snow mountain in the sky or yajooj and Majooj creatures. I will take it as evidence.👍
 
Please define it. Want to understand your definition and understanding of it.
I guess I define Islamists the same way I define Hindutva fanatics. Folks who believe their own antiquated laws and beliefs should apply to everyone. They're not satisfied for them to follow them individually.

From that follows all the others tuff - hate for other religions, opposition to concepts that haven't been outlined in their religious books etc. etc.
 
You are back to trolling once again. It is beyond your understanding.

Anyways, send me verified pictures of the snow mountain in the sky or yajooj and Majooj creatures. I will take it as evidence.👍
I am guessing you would like to speak with a manager if I cant get you the proof? You would probably also like a refund? LOL

Can you point me to a good south Indian astronomy text book while you wait? I want to make sure I collect enough evidence of a stationary sun s well since there is a lot of evidence asking going on around here.

But I digress, lets stick to the thread, hence a serious question. When did you know you were an atheist brother @Champ_Pal? Did you grow up believing or being told there is a God or a bunch of gods and one day just change your mind? or was there some significant event in your life that made you rethink your ideology?
 
I guess I define Islamists the same way I define Hindutva fanatics. Folks who believe their own antiquated laws and beliefs should apply to everyone. They're not satisfied for them to follow them individually.

From that follows all the others tuff - hate for other religions, opposition to concepts that haven't been outlined in their religious books etc. etc.
its a very unfortunate term but I understand how it comes about and I actually fully agree (albeit sadly) with your explanation.
 
But I digress, lets stick to the thread, hence a serious question. When did you know you were an atheist brother @Champ_Pal? Did you grow up believing or being told there is a God or a bunch of gods and one day just change your mind? or was there some significant event in your life that made you rethink your ideology?
I know you didn't ask me but it's tough for me to pinpoint the exact point of switchover. It was a steady transition for me - from inherited religion to doubt to agnosticism to atheism over a period of maybe 5 years starting from my late teens.

Let me turn that same question back to you - when did you realise you were religious and truly believed in your chosen god?
 
I know you didn't ask me but it's tough for me to pinpoint the exact point of switchover. It was a steady transition for me - from inherited religion to doubt to agnosticism to atheism over a period of maybe 5 years starting from my late teens.

Let me turn that same question back to you - when did you realise you were religious and truly believed in your chosen god?
I have been all over the place. I did not belong to a very religious household. I was, to be quite frank, very disenfranchised by religion when I was growing up in Pakistan. during my college years in the US and immediately afterwards as well, I never once thought about this stuff. I may have gone to a masjid maybe once in 4/5 years. I guess I was an atheist or agnostic or simply didn't care. Then after I got married and became a family man, I got back in touch with my culture and religion again. I would say I was in my late twenties at the time. It was still a very slow process of coming back to actually seriously considering there is a God. I still don't think I fully believe. But I have done some extensive studies and I am very safe in stating that if there is a God out there, of all the religions and books and whatnot I have read so far, Islam comes the closest to actually making sense. I mean yes there are some question marks about certain things but I learn something new almost every day if I really want an answer. It is not easy to get it, I do want to point that out. But I hope to get there eventually.

But as they say, I still have moments of doubt and then moments of clarity. I am self admittedly not one of strong faith and will continue to insist I am agnostic.. not a hard core believer.

but I do believe that the Sun is not stationary unlike brother Champ_pal. That one I am pretty confident I have gotten right.
 
I have been all over the place. I did not belong to a very religious household. I was, to be quite frank, very disenfranchised by religion when I was growing up in Pakistan. during my college years in the US and immediately afterwards as well, I never once thought about this stuff. I may have gone to a masjid maybe once in 4/5 years. I guess I was an atheist or agnostic or simply didn't care. Then after I got married and became a family man, I got back in touch with my culture and religion again. I would say I was in my late twenties at the time. It was still a very slow process of coming back to actually seriously considering there is a God. I still don't think I fully believe. But I have done some extensive studies and I am very safe in stating that if there is a God out there, of all the religions and books and whatnot I have read so far, Islam comes the closest to actually making sense. I mean yes there are some question marks about certain things but I learn something new almost every day if I really want an answer. It is not easy to get it, I do want to point that out. But I hope to get there eventually.

But as they say, I still have moments of doubt and then moments of clarity. I am self admittedly not one of strong faith and will continue to insist I am agnostic.. not a hard core believer.

but I do believe that the Sun is not stationary unlike brother Champ_pal. That one I am pretty confident I have gotten right.
Yes life's weird that way. I'm an atheist but I love all the cultural aspects and traditions of Hinduism - they're so colourful and meaningful. I celebrate festivals more fervently than many of my friends who claims to be religious. Hasn't turned me away from my atheist convictions but has allowed me hopto see the positives in religion and the religious.
 
I am guessing you would like to speak with a manager if I cant get you the proof? You would probably also like a refund? LOL

Can you point me to a good south Indian astronomy text book while you wait? I want to make sure I collect enough evidence of a stationary sun s well since there is a lot of evidence asking going on around here.

But I digress, lets stick to the thread, hence a serious question. When did you know you were an atheist brother @Champ_Pal? Did you grow up believing or being told there is a God or a bunch of gods and one day just change your mind? or was there some significant event in your life that made you rethink your ideology?
I did not come from a religious household. Parents are very liberal. Pretty much cultural Hindus.

I have seen plenty of people who do puja at home and who give donations and help the poor. But they were still suffering. The reasons for their sufferings extended from Bhagwan ki Pareeksha(God is testing) to karma from previous birth. None of them made any sense to me.

As a teenager I realized that whether you pray or not, the result is not going to change. It depends on your effort and a bit of luck. So why even pray and waste your time?

there is a lot more I can say, but this is enough for now.
 
@Red-Indian , did you understand me explaining the concept sun being stationary from earth’s point of view as the movement of sun across the sky is only an illusion caused due earth’s rotation?

We cannot observe the movement of sun across milky way galaxy because the entire solar system is moving as a unit across the galaxy.

This is a basic astronomy concept. Do you agree with that? I am asking you as you are a neutral and not a momin like brother Stewie.
 
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Yes that's true. My general feeling is that most thinking religious folks also sense deep inside that their religions are cute fairy tales with their talks of apsaras, djinns, angels, heaven, hell and other such comedy stuff.

However the faith that their parents taught them is tough to break out of and I guess they're also making Pascal's wager. Why not believe and hope that god will take care of them in the afterlife when the alternative has no real benefits and no real hope?

I understand and sympathise. Which is why I'm never bitter against religious folks.
The Pascal’s wager also fails miserably when you consider that the issue is not just about the existence of God. Even if such a God exists he has to be the same God as that believers God. Otherwise it’s straight to hell.

So the chances of God being Allah or Yahweh or Shiva or Waheguru or Ahura Mazda is very remote. Human civilization has seen tons of God(s) pop in and out of existence. Every culture believed that theirs is the only and true God until they convert or die.

Let’s say you believed in Allah or Yahweh or Shiva. But the real true Gods turned out to be Zeus. Now Zeus is not going to forgive you for being a believer. He will throw you in hell fires for being a believer of false god.

Best is to be an atheist and live life to the fullest without the guilt of not following your religion properly.👍

If god is so petty that he gets upset for not believing in him, then he is not a god to begin with.
 
This universe is very systematic. Human body itself shows signs of intelligent design.

These complex things can't happen by chance. Atheism is highly illogical.

Therefore, atheism is indeed the last refuge for a person who is too arrogant to acknowledge the intelligent designs surrounding him/her.
 
This universe is very systematic. Human body itself shows signs of intelligent design.

These complex things can't happen by chance. Atheism is highly illogical.

Therefore, atheism is indeed the last refuge for a person who is too arrogant to acknowledge the intelligent designs surrounding him/her.
I don't understand , therefore, god!

LMAO.
 
Islam and Atheism are the two extreme ends of the spectrum which makes their rivalry a natural one.

Islam & Christianity are the two religions that seemed global domination in the name of religion and are the most aggressive conversion obsessed religions in the worlds. They are very much alike but it is very intriguing actually the different ways both play their game in the modern world despite the similarities. Whereas Christianities hides behind Western capitalism, plays a silent killer game, the Muslims are more vocal and as a result become a bigger target for the atheists.

Genuine atheists hate all religions the same, and more dominant a religion tries to act, the more aggressive response it will attract from atheists.

Hinduism is generally not a target because they are not undertaking a major conversion drive and are relatively more open minded towards women empowerment in the modern era.
 
@Red-Indian , did you understand me explaining the concept sun being stationary from earth’s point of view as the movement of sun across the sky is only an illusion caused due earth’s rotation?

We cannot observe the movement of sun across milky way galaxy because the entire solar system is moving as a unit across the galaxy.

This is a basic astronomy concept. Do you agree with that? I am asking you as you are a neutral and not a momin like brother Stewie.
Not sure why you think I'm neutral. I pretty much regard all religious books as moral fairy tales.

Even so, your argument is pointless. With religious books, they're usually written so fuzzily that every generation can find truth in the assertions based on their own interpretation. 500 years ago, religious scholars used to gloat how neatly the Quran explained that the sun and moon revolved around the earth. Today, they gloat how prescient it was in explaining that the sun revolves around the center of the galaxy.

If all else fails, the religious have recourse to allegory and linguistic ambiguity.

- They can always stipulate that the books were not meant to be taken literally (say in the case of where semen is stored/generated in the human body) but more in the spirit.
- I've had many arguments end in assertions that the particular word in Sanskrit/Arabic/Hebrew in that context doesn't mean 'in' but 'on' or 'around' to resolve the impossibility of the statement in the religious book.

The argument is an endless loop and I'm sorry to say - more fool you for thinking you'll win the argument by proving the illogical assertion.
 
why do atheists hate islam more than other religions? they dont. however from an irreligious or agnostic pov i can say arguing with 99% of Muslims is virtually pointless as the core of the religion is based on absolute literalism, whereas quite a few jews and most Christians take an allegorical view of their religion.

you cannot gain anything from arguing existence or theology with a believing Muslim because the frame of reference is completely different. this isnt a criticism of Islam, if anything as a religion it makes it far less vulnerable to modification, however that does mean that in ideological, theological or metaphysical discussions, non-muslims in general are far less interested in the Muslim pov.

as far as the original text of the OP, yes elements of religion, or irreligion and culture can get conflated, Pakistanis, with their pirs, fakirs, bradary and zaat system should know that better than any other group. such contradictions are not something unique to atheists, everyone does it.
 
The Pascal’s wager also fails miserably when you consider that the issue is not just about the existence of God. Even if such a God exists he has to be the same God as that believers God. Otherwise it’s straight to hell.

So the chances of God being Allah or Yahweh or Shiva or Waheguru or Ahura Mazda is very remote. Human civilization has seen tons of God(s) pop in and out of existence. Every culture believed that theirs is the only and true God until they convert or die.

Let’s say you believed in Allah or Yahweh or Shiva. But the real true Gods turned out to be Zeus. Now Zeus is not going to forgive you for being a believer. He will throw you in hell fires for being a believer of false god.

Best is to be an atheist and live life to the fullest without the guilt of not following your religion properly.👍

If god is so petty that he gets upset for not believing in him, then he is not a god to begin with.
This is so far the best defense of atheism I have seen so far.

I do t believe in god because what if my god is the wrong god and I’ll burn in hell. Oh I know: I just won’t believe there is a god! Problem solved! 👏👏👏

Atheism commandment #1:
Though shalt bury thy head in the sand

Atheism commandment #2:
The Sun shalt remain motionless (for brother champ_pal only)

🤣
 
This is so far the best defense of atheism I have seen so far.

I do t believe in god because what if my god is the wrong god and I’ll burn in hell. Oh I know: I just won’t believe there is a god! Problem solved! 👏👏👏

Atheism commandment #1:
Though shalt bury thy head in the sand

Atheism commandment #2:
The Sun shalt remain motionless (for brother champ_pal only)

🤣
Typical strawman arguments delivered against atheism under the protection of "sensitivity of religion". :ROFLMAO:
 
Typical strawman arguments delivered against atheism under the protection of "sensitivity of religion". :ROFLMAO:
Oh sure, you are indeed very convincing, freely and frankly continuing to exhibit the ability to share your opinion in defense of atheism, and yet whining about “protection of sensitivity of religion”.

That makes a whole lot of sense indeed! 🤦‍♂️
 
Oh sure, you are indeed very convincing, freely and frankly continuing to exhibit the ability to share your opinion in defense of atheism, and yet whining about “protection of sensitivity of religion”.

That makes a whole lot of sense indeed! 🤦‍♂️
The point is I am not allowed to reply by in similar vein because it will be termed as offensive to religious sentiments.
And you are chest thumping under those protections :p.

PS: I am not an Atheist. :p
 
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Religion or faith is just a matter of personal belief. And the belief is God will protect them and family from harm and make them better people. And if someone doesn't want to believe this - that's fine too. It is his belief or choice. It's each individual's own choice. Doesn't matter to me unless its shoved down my throat and saying it's the only true religion or else I'll rot in hell blah blah blah nonsense- thats when it gets problematic

If a person is atheist- so be it. It's his choice and as long as he's not forcing it on others why should anyone care honestly?
 
Islam and Atheism are the two extreme ends of the spectrum which makes their rivalry a natural one.

Islam & Christianity are the two religions that seemed global domination in the name of religion and are the most aggressive conversion obsessed religions in the worlds. They are very much alike but it is very intriguing actually the different ways both play their game in the modern world despite the similarities. Whereas Christianities hides behind Western capitalism, plays a silent killer game, the Muslims are more vocal and as a result become a bigger target for the atheists.

Genuine atheists hate all religions the same, and more dominant a religion tries to act, the more aggressive response it will attract from atheists.

Hinduism is generally not a target because they are not undertaking a major conversion drive and are relatively more open minded towards women empowerment in the modern era.
Basically, my religion = good
your religion = bad

The reason Hinduism isn't a target is because everything negative that Hinduism breeds: hindu nationalism, caste-based discrimination, violence against Muslims and minorities, crackpot ideas about conquering the region is all concentrated in India. It's different from Islam which is viewed by the West as a threat to Judaeo-Christian values because of the rapid rate at which Muslims are migrating to Western countries.
 
All religions have positive and problematic things. We need to stop being toxic and telling everyone what makes our religion so great. And this goes for Atheists too who sometimes have this obsession with being the smartest guys in the room.

We need to give people space to believe what they want to believe. I know this is a truism but it needs to be said. Threads like these are ultimately quite pointless. Because what you believe in is something you arrive at after alot of deep thought. Whether its right or wrong does not matter. What matters is what YOU believe. If we had the answers to all of life's questions there would be no point in living it.
 
Basically, my religion = good
your religion = bad

The reason Hinduism isn't a target is because everything negative that Hinduism breeds: hindu nationalism, caste-based discrimination, violence against Muslims and minorities, crackpot ideas about conquering the region is all concentrated in India. It's different from Islam which is viewed by the West as a threat to Judaeo-Christian values because of the rapid rate at which Muslims are migrating to Western countries.

I didn’t say Islam is bad.
But mentioned the reasons why Islam remains the #1 target of atheists.

Muslims make themselves the #1 target by their actions
 
why do atheists hate islam more than other religions? they dont. however from an irreligious or agnostic pov i can say arguing with 99% of Muslims is virtually pointless as the core of the religion is based on absolute literalism, whereas quite a few jews and most Christians take an allegorical view of their religion.

you cannot gain anything from arguing existence or theology with a believing Muslim because the frame of reference is completely different. this isnt a criticism of Islam, if anything as a religion it makes it far less vulnerable to modification, however that does mean that in ideological, theological or metaphysical discussions, non-muslims in general are far less interested in the Muslim pov.

as far as the original text of the OP, yes elements of religion, or irreligion and culture can get conflated, Pakistanis, with their pirs, fakirs, bradary and zaat system should know that better than any other group. such contradictions are not something unique to atheists, everyone does it.

Perhaps the fact that Islam is more "literal" as the unadulterated word of God attracts more criticism and makes it more vulnerable than other religions .

Even the slightest of historical inaccuracies/scientific inaccuracies would dent it's narrative wouldn't it?
 
Perhaps the fact that Islam is more "literal" as the unadulterated word of God attracts more criticism and makes it more vulnerable than other religions .

Even the slightest of historical inaccuracies/scientific inaccuracies would dent it's narrative wouldn't it?


Doesn't seem to have dented it so far too much. I would say that a far bigger charge against Islam is that it has not driven innovation and because it is somewhat discouraging to materialism which drives the capitalist success of many nations.
 
Perhaps the fact that Islam is more "literal" as the unadulterated word of God attracts more criticism and makes it more vulnerable than other religions .

Even the slightest of historical inaccuracies/scientific inaccuracies would dent it's narrative wouldn't it?
1 - No it is not all literal and I know people fall in that trap quite a bit (Muslims and non-Muslims) but my view is that it is not all literal.

Regarding the last point: well has not happened yet for what I can tell and not for lack of trying. Christian polemics and others have been trying for years and years. The reason they are unable to find any historical inaccuracies is because much of the stuff is the same as the bible and Torah. Best they can do is target the Prophet and they do that with total abandon already.

But regardless =: this thread is about atheists
 
1 - No it is not all literal and I know people fall in that trap quite a bit (Muslims and non-Muslims) but my view is that it is not all literal.

Regarding the last point: well has not happened yet for what I can tell and not for lack of trying. Christian polemics and others have been trying for years and years. The reason they are unable to find any historical inaccuracies is because much of the stuff is the same as the bible and Torah. Best they can do is target the Prophet and they do that with total abandon already.

But regardless =: this thread is about atheists
Christian polemics don't quote historical sources because the Bible and Torah are mostly ahistorical themselves.
 
Christian polemics don't quote historical sources because the Bible and Torah are mostly ahistorical themselves.
It depends on what you are defining as historical inaccuracies and sources then. Because I have heard arguments on those subjects all the time. Maybe you and I have different understanding of what that means. The idea is the same though: lets make the other guy look wrong and foolish by poking holes in what is widely accepted as the scripture or otherwise based history of either religion. It is not all completely targeting the Quran or the Bible, etc. The polemics love to target the general narrative or history of Islam as well, and vice versa.
 
I have respect for atheists. Especially from the subcontinent, Middle East or Africa.

It can be a big decision that can cause people to break family ties. Much of our culture is centred around religious events so to break off from that is a big decision. So while I disagree with atheism I can understand their bravery to come out and declare their beliefs.

There are three groups that I don't understand.

1. Zionist Atheists - How people can simultaneously not believe in God but advocate for a religious state is a weird position.
2 Ex Muslims who then become dangerously obsessed with Islam.
3 Hindus who pretend to be atheists in debates.
 
I have respect for atheists. Especially from the subcontinent, Middle East or Africa.

It can be a big decision that can cause people to break family ties. Much of our culture is centred around religious events so to break off from that is a big decision. So while I disagree with atheism I can understand their bravery to come out and declare their beliefs.

There are three groups that I don't understand.

1. Zionist Atheists - How people can simultaneously not believe in God but advocate for a religious state is a weird position.
2 Ex Muslims who then become dangerously obsessed with Islam.
3 Hindus who pretend to be atheists in debates.
Is there any such thing, really? OH wow!! never heard of them before. Didn't know there are any of those around.


:LOL:
 
Perhaps the fact that Islam is more "literal" as the unadulterated word of God attracts more criticism and makes it more vulnerable than other religions .

Even the slightest of historical inaccuracies/scientific inaccuracies would dent it's narrative wouldn't it?
no, there cant be any inaccuracies, as a believing Muslim, any alleged inaccuracy is either a failure of the accuser to understand the quranic text they are challenging, or the point they are trying to make.

there are numerous miracles in the quran, miracles by their nature defy physical laws, and as such are scientific inaccuracies from the physical reference point of view, that's one place where you can start, but no Muslim will ever question the miracles as that's a core part of the faith, and for which there can be, by definition, no scientific proof or evidence.

challenging religion from a scientific point of view is fruitless, every religion has its basis in faith, if it was scientifically rigorous it would not be faith, it would just be science, and as such reward for believing in it would not make sense.
 
I have respect for atheists. Especially from the subcontinent, Middle East or Africa.

It can be a big decision that can cause people to break family ties. Much of our culture is centred around religious events so to break off from that is a big decision. So while I disagree with atheism I can understand their bravery to come out and declare their beliefs.

There are three groups that I don't understand.

1. Zionist Atheists - How people can simultaneously not believe in God but advocate for a religious state is a weird position.
2 Ex Muslims who then become dangerously obsessed with Islam.
3 Hindus who pretend to be atheists in debates.
i can shed some light on 1 if you want. disclaimer tho, i will be talking about this from a historical point of view, not religious.

Judaism is often seen as a religion, but from a historical perspective, it's more complex. If you study its origins, it’s essentially the codification of social and cultural practices of a people who used proto-religious beliefs as a political tool to unite various tribes in the Levant. They worshiped one god who offered protection in place of a king—an innovative concept at the time—that helped stabilize these desert tribes against the unpredictability of individual rulers.

Eventually, a priestly class, either from within or external, became the bureaucracy of this emerging state, working to unify the tribes by standardizing a shared origin myth. When the nation fell to the Babylonians, the people were exiled. During this period, the priestly class intensified their efforts, creating a unified identity—a stateless nation—held together by shared beliefs and practices. Whether one believes in God or not, this group not only survived but thrived throughout history, thanks to the strength of their collective identity.

Atheist Zionists see the modern state of Israel as the realization of this history, a tangible symbol for Jews to rally around. Interestingly, it is often the most religious Jews who reject the state of Israel, recognizing it as a political project. For atheist Zionists, however, Judaism itself was always a political project, and Israel is just an extension of that. Also its financially lucrative to be rich in a small country you can wield excessive influence in, than be rich in a country which is ten times bigger.
 
Is there any such thing, really? OH wow!! never heard of them before. Didn't know there are any of those around.


:LOL:
Its just coping mechanism for many theists.

Abrahamic believers even call us Pastafarians as atheists

R'Amen
 
The greatest fallacy pushed by Atheism is that science and religion oppose each other.

Science is simply a method of discovery through observation. In fact science itself relies on a number of faith based initiatives too.

Many great scientists were deeply religious, hence why Atheism doesn't have the authority to dictate what is and what isn't compatible with religion.
 
The greatest fallacy pushed by Atheism is that science and religion oppose each other.

Science is simply a method of discovery through observation. In fact science itself relies on a number of faith based initiatives too.

Many great scientists were deeply religious, hence why Atheism doesn't have the authority to dictate what is and what isn't compatible with religion.
more pearls of wisdom.

Keep em coming
 
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