Punjabi to be introduced as subject in schools

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I think I'd like Hindi more if it wasn't forced down our throats. While I dislike the Dravidian propaganda as much as the next person (I'm not Tamil), I have to admit it didn't raise in a vacuum and is a reaction to the weird decision to try and force them to learn Hindi when they didn't want to.

I'd challenge any native Hindi speaker to take the central board syllabus fifth grade Hindi book and explain every word in there to me. That's the absurd situation we've brought ourselves to today.

Pakistan's gone down the same path with an even more absurd language.

Pakistan's language, if you are talking about Urdu - which I'm guessing is basically hindi mixed with Farsi - actually provides a common language which everyone understands from Bangladesh to Afghanistan. Local dialects are all well and good, but take it from a native Brit, the power of a universal language should not be undervalued. It is the one cultural baggage of British Empire which has enabled India to revive it's otherwise faltering economy since partition while sniffy Pakistanis refused to adopt the language of the oppressor.

 

[Red-Indian]

Pakistan's language, if you are talking about Urdu - which I'm guessing is basically hindi mixed with Farsi - actually provides a common language which everyone understands from Bangladesh to Afghanistan. Local dialects are all well and good, but take it from a native Brit, the power of a universal language should not be undervalued. It is the one cultural baggage of British Empire which has enabled India to revive it's otherwise faltering economy since partition while sniffy Pakistanis refused to adopt the language of the oppressor.

Language can bind but it can break as well. I'm sure you're aware but the effort to drive a universal language was one of the main reasons Pakistan lost Bangladesh.

There's that famous video of Jinnah (in English mind you) delivering a speech in Dhaka that Bengali would have a lower status than Urdu which would be the national language.

The effort to drive national integration through a language is foolhardy in my opinion and can backfire. Let it happen naturally if it will and live without it if it won't.

 

[CerebralPatriot]

Terrific decision from Maraym and her cabinet. People don’t realise the importance of maintaining one’s cultural heritage especially in a country like Pakistan where the establishment has tried time and time again to destroy any semblance of diversity and replace it with uniformity

Also lol to the people saying this is a means to strike Punjabi nationalism. The top tier leadership of PML-N is made up mostly of ethnic Kashmiris. Now why in the hell would a party made up of a non Punjabi ethnic group try to use Punjabi nationalism as a means to increase their vote bank? PTI logic that’s about it

I also imagine that if this was Gandapur initiating Pashto classes in KP than the same posters cursing Maraym would be praising Gandapur as some kind of revolutionary

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Language can bind but it can break as well. I'm sure you're aware but the effort to drive a universal language was one of the main reasons Pakistan lost Bangladesh.

There's that famous video of Jinnah (in English mind you) delivering a speech in Dhaka that Bengali would have a lower status than Urdu which would be the national language.

The effort to drive national integration through a language is foolhardy in my opinion and can backfire. Let it happen naturally if it will and live without it if it won't.

Of course Bengali would have a lower status than Urdu, it was the same for Punjabi as well, if this thread proves anything, it proves that. I don't know if the effort to drive a national language is the reason why people can converse across Asia in Bollyspeak - I am calling it that to avoid disputes as to whether it is Urdu or Hindi - but it has enabled communication which would otherwise not be possible.

 

[Red-Indian]

Of course Bengali would have a lower status than Urdu, it was the same for Punjabi as well, if this thread proves anything, it proves that. I don't know if the effort to drive a national language is the reason why people can converse across Asia in Bollyspeak - I am calling it that to avoid disputes as to whether it is Urdu or Hindi - but it has enabled communication which would otherwise not be possible.

You see easy communication as an end in itself. I don't. I think that's where the difference lies.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

You see easy communication as an end in itself. I don't. I think that's where the difference lies.

Yet here we are conversing in a universal language only made possible by imperialism. Is that a good thing or a bad thing which just worked out well?

 

[Red-Indian]

Yet here we are conversing in a universal language only made possible by imperialism. Is that a good thing or a bad thing which just worked out well?

Neither. It's just a thing that worked out by necessity. At Independence, I doubt more than a tiny elite percentage of Indians spoke English. Nobody forced us to learn it. Trade, tourism, immigration opportunities made it attractive to learn.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Neither. It's just a thing that worked out by necessity. At Independence, I doubt more than a tiny elite percentage of Indians spoke English. Nobody forced us to learn it. Trade, tourism, immigration opportunities made it attractive to learn.

All those opportunities arose because of imperialism though. Otherwise why was Latin not attractive to learn? Or Swahili?

 

[Red-Indian]

All those opportunities arose because of imperialism though. Otherwise why was Latin not attractive to learn? Or Swahili?

We've wandered far afield from the original topic of discussion.

My point is teach kids/people their local language and give them the option to learn a couple more of their choice. Most will chose the ones that best allow them to communicate in their country and get ahead in the world.

I suppose imperialism has made English that language but not sure how that makes difference to my point. If Kenyans ruled half the world at one time and took their language everywhere, people in India would be choosing to learn Swahili.

What does that do with forcing Urdu/Hindi down their throats?

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

We've wandered far afield from the original topic of discussion.

My point is teach kids/people their local language and give them the option to learn a couple more of their choice. Most will chose the ones that best allow them to communicate in their country and get ahead in the world.

I suppose imperialism has made English that language but not sure how that makes difference to my point. If Kenyans ruled half the world at one time and took their language everywhere, people in India would be choosing to learn Swahili.

What does that do with forcing Urdu/Hindi down their throats?

You are couching it in the wrong terminology. It's not forcing Urdu down anyone's throat, it's inviting all to live under an umbrella sharing a common language to encourage harmony and understanding. By all means learn and teach the local languages also, but the primary language should be the national one.

Can't speak about hindi language, if that's getting forced down Indian throats you would know better than me.

 

[Red-Indian]

You are couching it in the wrong terminology. It's not forcing Urdu down anyone's throat, it's inviting all to live under an umbrella sharing a common language to encourage harmony and understanding. By all means learn and teach the local languages also, but the primary language should be the national one.

Can't speak about hindi language, if that's getting forced down Indian throats you would know better than me.

I think we're fast approaching the point where we're repeating arguments already made and talking past each other but I'll give it one last shot.

You believe a national language is conducive to national harmony and understanding. Sure I'll concede the point but so is say a uniform national religion. So let's change the context a bit and repeat your argument.

It's not forcing Islam down anyone's throat, it's inviting all to live under an umbrella sharing a common religion to encourage harmony and understanding. By all means learn and teach the local religions also, but the primary religion should be the national one.

I expect you'll retort religion is more central to people's identity. Sure but it's not to mine and I expect language is very central to the identity of say Tamils and Kashmiris and Balochs. They don't want to learn Hindi or Urdu. So don't make them just because you have some vague notions that it promotes 'harmony and understanding.'

 

[rickroll]

I think we're fast approaching the point where we're repeating arguments already made and talking past each other but I'll give it one last shot.

You believe a national language is conducive to national harmony and understanding. Sure I'll concede the point but so is say a uniform national religion. So let's change the context a bit and repeat your argument.



I expect you'll retort religion is more central to people's identity. Sure but it's not to mine and I expect language is very central to the identity of say Tamils and Kashmiris and Balochs. They don't want to learn Hindi or Urdu. So don't make them just because you have some vague notions that it promotes 'harmony and understanding.'

I will concur with the bolded part based on my observations.

There is a large group of south Indians at my work place from Chennai (Tamils), Bangalore (Kannada) and from Kerala (Malayalam). They are smart, open minded, and tolerant people. All of them hate the idea of having to learn Hindi. Before I had the fortune of meeting them, my idea of India was colored more by Bollywood, popular Indian news media, and other Urdu/Hindi/Punjabi speakers -- basically an opinion of India through a lens only focused on North India. My views on India as an aggressive Islam hating right wing Hindu -jingoism nation was through the North India lens which had similar "Hindi is the national language of India" jingoism. My opinions changed once I interacted with my South Indian coworkers.

Yes, Baloch or Kashmiris could have the same objections to another language forced upon them just as Tamil or other South Indian people.

BUT there is a subtle difference here though between India and Pakistan.

In India - Native Hindi speaking majority is forcing Hindi down the throats of non-native minority.

In Pakistan - Native Urdu speakers are a minority. Non-native Urdu speakers insist on Urdu as a common thread among other non-native Urdu speakers (while subtly also including the native Urdu speakers).

Why this distinction is important - If someone forcing a language upon me but the enforcer does not have to put in any extra effort in learning a language but me the enforced person has to run that extra mile to appease the enforcing majority then it is unfair for my linguistic minority group. If my minority group is either native to the land or has sizable demographic/political voice then I will definitely resist.

Many people who view things from their majority group lens (language, religion, or anything else) seem to miss the above simple logic until we get exposed to another way of seeing things.

 

[Cricket Warrior]

The Punjab government has announced that all government schools in the province will remain closed on Saturdays in a move aimed at reducing the workload of teachers and enhancing their professional development.

This decision was made public by Punjab Education Minister Rana Sikandar Hayat, who said Saturdays will be reserved for teachers' training.


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