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Australia vs Pakistan | 3rd ODI | Perth | November 10 | Pre-Match Discussion

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BunnyRabbit said:
Rizwan showed a lot more urgency when he was made to bat at no.5 in 2022 or 2023 i don't remember properly. That's one way of not letting our players get complacence which is why i believe Rizwan NEEDS to bat at 5 so he can show more determination whilst he's on crease and add some power game to his arsenal. Otherwise he won't improve.
Regarding Saud, he is a better player of spin than he is for pace and I like his work ethic that he's always looking to improve and energize his game something our players lack. No. 5 will have to add finishing skills as well something Inzi was a master at. Saud lacks the muscle to manufacture boundaries in the last 15 overs (hasn't showed his ability yet but I am hopeful he will). I believe no. 4 is a more specialized position that needs pure batters with minimal deficiencies. Saud has a higher ceiling IMO and should be given a chance at 4.
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I disagree. If you look at his numbers, Rizwan has a far better record at 4 than he does at 5. At 4 he averages something like 48. At 5 he averages 32-33. It was only after he moved up the order to 4 that his ODI batting saw a marked improvement. At the beginning of last year, he has pretty mediocre numbers in ODI cricket and was averaging around 32. Right now, Rizwan is a far more accomplished batter than Saud which is why I think he should be at 4.

Saud may lack the muscle but he is more adept at finding gaps than people give him credit for. He also has a better power-game than Rizwan. I am also a big believer in not fixing something that isn't broken. If Rizwan is performing at 4, I see no need to change his position and risk the potential of two batters being unsettled. Also, considering that Rizwan has been a big proponent of himself batting at 4, I don't think he will change his position either, especially now that he is captain.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
I disagree. If you look at his numbers, Rizwan has a far better record at 4 than he does at 5. At 4 he averages something like 48. At 5 he averages 32-33. It was only after he moved up the order to 4 that his ODI batting saw a marked improvement. At the beginning of last year, he has pretty mediocre numbers in ODI cricket and was averaging around 32. Right now, Rizwan is a far more accomplished batter than Saud which is why I think he should be at 4.

Saud may lack the muscle but he is more adept at finding gaps than people give him credit for. He also has a better power-game than Rizwan. I am also a big believer in not fixing something that isn't broken. If Rizwan is performing at 4, I see no need to change his position and risk the potential of two batters being unsettled. Also, considering that Rizwan has been a big proponent of himself batting at 4, I don't think he will change his position either, especially now that he is captain.
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Respect your opinion bro but there's something that doesn't look right with Rizwan at 4. Not talking about the numbers. But Rizwan is a reactive kind of batter who is more suited to no.5 IMO. Saud has the tools to become a complete batter if he works on his power game. This is something you can see. Ross Taylor, Michael Clarke, Eoin Morgan, Yousaf, Yuvraj etc. They were all proper batters with all round game and were extremely successful at no.4. You need to put the guy with the highest ceiling at no.3 and no.4. Shai Hope has given up his preferred opening position since becoming captain and moved to no.4 and has been adding new dimensions to his game which is commendable. That sort of thing is missing in our culture where captain gets himself his preferred position.
 
Doubt Pakistani batting can hold out in Perth. Australia is going to come hard utilizing the pace, bounce of the track.
 
Ah yes, the same pitch where Babar Azam dazzled with a whopping 4 off 9 balls against Zimbabwe, Rizwan lit up the scoreboard with a mighty 14 off 16, Iftikhar chipped in a breathtaking 5 off 10, and Shaheen Afridi terrorized the opposition by going wicketless. was Truly a masterclass all around!
 
Bewal Express said:
Hasnain isn't great and I have said so on many occasions but ODI he is slightly better
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I'd play Aamer Jamal. The guy has never quit attitude and it shows in his batting and bowling. Hasnain is a mentally weak bowler who crumbles under pressure all the time.
 
Savak said:
Doubt Pakistani batting can hold out in Perth. Australia is going to come hard utilizing the pace, bounce of the track.
Click to expand...
Only thing I'm worried about is the short ball show. If Pakistan lose a couple early wickets and get in that fear zone then they'll get bounced out for cheap.
 
BunnyRabbit said:
I'd play Aamer Jamal. The guy has never quit attitude and it shows in his batting and bowling. Hasnain is a mentally weak bowler who crumbles under pressure all the time.
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Love his attitude and he has showed he can take wickets but atm his action is far too inconsistent to set fields to. He has the same problem Wasim JNR had with a slingy action
 
Bewal Express said:
Love his attitude and he has showed he can take wickets but atm his action is far too inconsistent to set fields to. He has the same problem Wasim JNR had with a slingy action
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I hope Gillespie is working on his shortcomings. Gillespie has a proven track record of breathing new life in pacers. Examples like Plunkett.
 
BunnyRabbit said:
I hope Gillespie is working on his shortcomings. Gillespie has a proven track record of breathing new life in pacers. Examples like Plunkett.
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He can't. Unfortunately the inconsistentcy is part of a slingy action. Jamal is a product of low wickets where keeping the ball low means you are difficult to hit and with skid and reverse you pick up wickets. He has to analyse his action and work to minimise the inconsistency. As I said, I love his aggression and IA improvements come.
 
BunnyRabbit said:
Respect your opinion bro but there's something that doesn't look right with Rizwan at 4. Not talking about the numbers. But Rizwan is a reactive kind of batter who is more suited to no.5 IMO. Saud has the tools to become a complete batter if he works on his power game. This is something you can see. Ross Taylor, Michael Clarke, Eoin Morgan, Yousaf, Yuvraj etc. They were all proper batters with all round game and were extremely successful at no.4. You need to put the guy with the highest ceiling at no.3 and no.4. Shai Hope has given up his preferred opening position since becoming captain and moved to no.4 and has been adding new dimensions to his game which is commendable. That sort of thing is missing in our culture where captain gets himself his preferred position.
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Likewise bro. We can agree to disagree. Time will tell if Rizwan is well-equipped for this position or not.
 
emranabbas said:
Ah yes, the same pitch where Babar Azam dazzled with a whopping 4 off 9 balls against Zimbabwe, Rizwan lit up the scoreboard with a mighty 14 off 16, Iftikhar chipped in a breathtaking 5 off 10, and Shaheen Afridi terrorized the opposition by going wicketless. was Truly a masterclass all around!
Click to expand...
Perth is the place where pakistan is at its weakest. Historically atleast. Let's see what happens on Sunday
 
Pakistan might be going with the same team here as well. Perth is generally a more pacey one so you cannot be risking playing a spinner for a pacer. All of these 4 guys are going just fine. I think no change is needed for the 3rd game.
 
This is not the regular perth pitch. Drop in pitch used so dont expect it to behave like the regular perth pitches
 
alishahid said:
No change. Should be the same eleven. Even if there is a change, it should be a pacer for a pacer. Getting a spinner in is not an option
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Yep. We can try Aamer Jamal. He has had a good time with the ball in Australia and could be useful with the bat as well. That could be the only change
 
Let's not get personal here. This is a match thread. No point in fighting here to prove your point and troll others. Enjoy while it lasts, Brothers.
 
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Pakistan vs Australia ODI Series:

The national squad has arrived in Perth from Adelaide.

Pakistan will play the third ODI against Australia in Perth tomorrow.

The three-match ODI series is currently tied at one each.

https://imgur.com/PP7QPGq
 
BouncerGuy said:
Pakistan might be going with the same team here as well. Perth is generally a more pacey one so you cannot be risking playing a spinner for a pacer. All of these 4 guys are going just fine. I think no change is needed for the 3rd game.
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No need to debut a spinner on Perth. You also can't risk it when series win is on the line.

Same team or either Aamer Jamal comes in for one of the pacers if they need rest
 
Australia committed to aggressive cricket: McDonald

Head coach Andrew McDonald has backed his side's attacking style of play after Australia were bowled out for 163 in a nine-wicket loss to Pakistan in the second ODI

Australia will enter Sunday's ODI Series decider against Pakistan in Perth with a vastly revamped team but no change to their on-field approach despite a chastening defeat at Adelaide Oval.

Men's team coach Andrew McDonald conceded Pakistan had produced "almost a complete game" in defeating Australia by nine wickets with 141 balls to spare and noted the reigning ODI world champions were well below their best tonight.

But despite the absence of five star players for the final game of the three-match series at Perth Stadium, McDonald holds firm in the team's approach to 50-over cricket with just one ODI remaining before the ICC Champions Trophy tournament in Pakistan.

Fast bowlers Lance Morris, Spencer Johnson and Xavier Bartlett will all come under consideration for Sunday's game, with fellow seamer Sean Abbott also set to return along with all-rounder Marcus Stoinis.

Left-arm spin bowling allrounder Cooper Connolly might also be given a chance to show his stuff in front of his hometown fans given his skills set could be valuable on what will be vastly different pitch conditions in Pakistan compared to the tracks for the first two ODIs in this series.

Test stars Pat Cummins, Steve Smith, Mitchell Starc, Josh Hazlewood and Marnus Labuschagne will all miss the series decider as they begin preparations for the Border-Gavaskar Trophy Test campaign beginning in Perth on November 22.

However, despite the enforced overhaul of Australia's starting XI for Sunday's game, there will be no change to the aggressive approach to top-order batting even though they have surrendered their first six wickets for less than 150 in both outings against Pakistan.

"We go to Perth with a clear plan, a clear method," McDonald said after the loss in Adelaide.

"We're committed to the style we want to play.

"The big thing about that is we've won 16 out of the last 19 games, and we've got some changing personnel within that but we believe in the style we want to play as a group.

"We weren't at our best tonight, nowhere near our best.

"Pakistan controlled the game from the get-go and not enough runs to even think about putting pressure on."

While the five Test stars will surely figure in final selection for the Champions Trophy tournament in February, Australia will also regain power hitters Travis Head and Mitchell Marsh who are currently on paternity leave.

In their absence, Australia have fielded new ODI opening pair Matt Short and Jake Fraser-McGurk, who have brought attacking intent from ball one of their two innings together but have so far managed first-wicket stands of 19 and 21.

It provided a stark contrast to Pakistan's pursuit of 164 for victory tonight, with Saim Ayub (82 off 71 balls in his second ODI outing) and Abdullah Shafique (64no off 69) adding 137 before a wicket fell, by which time their team was within clear sight of victory.

McDonald has heard criticism from some commentators that some of his batters are going too hard, too early in their innings, but noted Australia's shortfall today could be attributed more to Pakistan's fast bowling acumen than profligate stroke play.

"If you looked at the dismissals today there was some defensive strokes in that," he said.

"It's just finding that balance, and we've had great success with the style we want to play at the top of the order to make sure we're putting pressure on opposition bowling units.

"Sometimes that can work, and over the journey so far it's served us well.

"We've got some new personnel at the top as well … but I think Matt Short in England (earlier this year) showed he's up to the task.

"He has hasn't got off to the start he wants in this series, and Jake (Fraser McGurk) is not the finished article either.

"Everyone thinks he may be the finished article, but he's going on a journey with his career and we believe he's good enough to play at this level at this point in time.

"But clearly there's always going to be some setbacks within that."

After stumbling in pursuit of a modest total at the MCG in Monday's series opener, Australia's sub-par batting effort today – their lowest completed ODI innings at Adelaide Oval – meant questions remain about their optimal line-up for the Champions Trophy.

But McDonald pointed out a bulk of the ODI team have crucial Test campaigns against India (home) and Sri Lanka (away) before that ICC tournament gets underway, so it was far too early to panic about form in the 50-over arena.

And he added Australia were still looking for their best form going into last year's ODI World Cup in India before lifting the trophy.

"It's the nature of one-day cricket," he said.

"We didn't have the greatest prep leading into the World Cup either, and a lot of the things you do tend to come together at the last minute leading into those world events.

"Clearly we've got to tune things up for Perth, we've been challenged in different ways and we have to respond.

"Yes we're trying to connect between now and the Champions Trophy by having a look at certain things, but we've got a Test summer (against India) we've got to combat through then off to Sri Lanka with a great challenge there."

CRICKET.COM.AU
 
mominsaigol said:
Asad shafiq as a test player >>>>>> Abdullah shafique. It's better to say Abdullah is a poor man's version of asad in test and an outright failure on odi.
Click to expand...

Asad shafiq is not even test material. He also player due to backing of defensive ka raja Misbah.
 
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I believe Pakistan will do better if Aqib keeps interfering in selecting playing 11. Don't give too much power to our any kaptaan sahab. They loose it when they are given too much power. Rizwan in selecting playing 11 is similar to Babar and co.
But I love his aggressive mindset, his field placement is something which I have dreamed from years.
I hope it's his field placement and not Gillespie or aqib Javed's.
 
Mrjungshook said:
I believe Pakistan will do better if Aqib keeps interfering in selecting playing 11. Don't give too much power to our any kaptaan sahab. They loose it when they are given too much power. Rizwan in selecting playing 11 is similar to Babar and co.
But I love his aggressive mindset, his field placement is something which I have dreamed from years.
I hope it's his field placement and not Gillespie or aqib Javed's.
Click to expand...
One thing Rizwan does have going for him is luck
 
mominsaigol said:
Happy posting on PP. Your type of mindset is needed on the forumn.
Click to expand...
Thank you
I have been watching your and rana's posts and i must say they are genuine and hilarious at the same time.
I also might disagree at some points. But i guess that's what conversations are all about at the end.
 
Mrjungshook said:
I believe Pakistan will do better if Aqib keeps interfering in selecting playing 11. Don't give too much power to our any kaptaan sahab. They loose it when they are given too much power. Rizwan in selecting playing 11 is similar to Babar and co.
But I love his aggressive mindset, his field placement is something which I have dreamed from years.
I hope it's his field placement and not Gillespie or aqib Javed's.
Click to expand...
The day pakistan will start losing the matches/ series then Aqib will be first person to fired from his job.

Power never should be given to single person and we have already seen what was happened to Babar.
 
mominsaigol said:
@RedwoodOriginal @Kianig89 @khyberlion

Now that I'm finally free I will give my opinions respectfully.

First about Abdullah.

You lot keep forgetting how rubbish he is, cause you all keep forgetting his innings.

Ahmed shehzad was exactly the same, He'd fail 50+ innings but would hit a century here and their and you lot would do a bhrangra.

The truth is he is a crap opener with a few flashy spells. So I 100% stand by what I claimed. Prior to this innings, saim and Abdullah had proven themselves to be the worst opening pair(statistically) that Pakistan has ever had.

Now about Australia

Australia played rubbish today. Their is no denying it. Infact they were also very poor on the field which is something no one could have predicted.

Given pak's track history, no one could have predicted Australia would go down that easily.

And Finally about Rizwan

I stand by my judgement. He is a rubbish captain.

One match won't change anything. I have been following their career trajectories.

As amjid javed stated, one innings and suddenly saim is the 2nd coming of saeed Anwar, Abdullah is the goat overseas axeman opener, rizzu is the 2nd coming of waugh etc etc.

Rizwan is a medicore bat. Abdullah is a rubbish bat, Saim has showcased flashes of brilliance.

You can play judge jury executioner all you want, keep flaunting this 164 run chase for the rest of your life.

Rizzu captaincy drama will end in tears, so will with Abdullah shafique drama.
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Excellent summary,

Indeed fans getting carried away over a 160 run chase in Adelaide, which is a good batting surface.

Credit to out bowlers at same time for exposing some awful batting by Aussies.

This was a 300 surface to bat on
 
mominsaigol said:
He tried, he failed. Even his supporters know this.

@RedwoodOriginal pointed out how the goat batter is absolutely trash at no 5 hence cried for his favourite no.
Click to expand...
He is trash at 4 let's be very honest. He should eliminate his sweep shot, it gives me nausea whenever he goes for a sweep shot.
He might break his bones someday.
At 6 he can go for big shots straight away.
I hope Aqib Javed make him understand.
 
Devadwal said:
The day pakistan will start losing the matches/ series then Aqib will be first person to fired from his job.

Power never should be given to single person and we have already seen what was happened to Babar.
Click to expand...
You are right.
But let's be honest Babar doesn't have a good iq to even handle captaincy. So having all the powers was always gonna backfire. So we cannot give his example. Currently whatever Aqib is touching is turning into platinum. So we should risk it. Our team has anyway embarrassed us alot so this is not gonna make any big difference.
 
Mrjungshook said:
He is trash at 4 let's be very honest. He should eliminate his sweep shot, it gives me nausea whenever he goes for a sweep shot.
He might break his bones someday.
At 6 he can go for big shots straight away.
I hope Aqib Javed make him understand.
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At 6 he can go for big shots straight away.

Rizwan and Big shots are rarer then a solar eclipse. When he use to bat at no 6/7 during his early days he avg 11 and a sr of less then a 100.

Infact one of his interviews from 2016, he was still complaining about his number and demanding that he should bat higher up the order, it's just he had zero rep at that time so no one listened to him.




 
At 6 he can go for big shots straight away.

Rizwan and Big shots are rarer then a solar eclipse. When he use to bat at no 6/7 during his early days he avg 11 and a sr of less then a 100.

Infact one of his interviews from 2016, he was still complaining about his number and demanding that he should bat higher up the order, it's just he had zero rep at that time so no one listened to him.





[/QUOTE]
Hahaha I know Momin but I said it because people on PP believe that he is a second coming of Ab devilliers. He can hit big sixes but he doens't do it because he wants to face as many balls as possible.
Otherwise He doesn't deserve to be in a team as a batsmen let's be honest.
But we cannot remove him now as he is a captain. If I have to decide top 5 this will be my top 5.
Fakhar
Saim
Babar (if he starts playing for a team)
Shan masood ( after watching his explosiveness during 3rd test)
Kamran Ghulam
There is literally no space for him.
 
Mrjungshook said:
At 6 he can go for big shots straight away.

Rizwan and Big shots are rarer then a solar eclipse. When he use to bat at no 6/7 during his early days he avg 11 and a sr of less then a 100.

Infact one of his interviews from 2016, he was still complaining about his number and demanding that he should bat higher up the order, it's just he had zero rep at that time so no one listened to him.
Click to expand...
Hahaha I know Momin but I said it because people on PP believe that he is a second coming of Ab devilliers. He can hit big sixes but he doens't do it because he wants to face as many balls as possible.
Otherwise He doesn't deserve to be in a team as a batsmen let's be honest.
But we cannot remove him now as he is a captain. If I have to decide top 5 this will be my top 5.
Fakhar
Saim
Babar (if he starts playing for a team)
Shan masood ( after watching his explosiveness during 3rd test)
Kamran Ghulam
There is literally no space for him.
[/QUOTE]

Post through the real account please
 
@Mrjungshook

Well yes and no. See rizzu in t20 wants to face as many balls as humanely possible and in t20 bowlers bowl fuller to try to bait batsmen to get out cause they want them to loft.

A few bowlers like Bumrah, Pandya, Cummins, Farooqi have figured out the fact that rizzu isn't your traditional t20 opener so just bowling line and length around the 3rd offstump line will get rid of him, but a few teams haven't atm specially sri lanka.

In odi, the reason he bats at 4 is because it's the perfect position. He has a very very poor technique to play new ball bowling, so rizzu ideally wants to come after 10 overs have been bowled and the ball has settled down.

No 5-7 is too low as as this coward is incapable of playing big shots or playing for the team. Opening or no 3 is too risky as pdi bowlers just bowl inswingers short of the length by default in odi.

His technique is garbage when it comes to playing seam movement. It's why netravalkar exposed this fraud in t20 wc 2024 and so did bumrah.

In tests he's fine for no 6, he's okay on pindi roads. Spin tracks or any overseas track he's useless.
 
mominsaigol said:
A few bowlers like Bumrah, Pandya, Cummins, Farooqi have figured out the fact that rizzu isn't your traditional t20 opener so just bowling line and length around the 3rd offstump line will get rid of him, but a few teams haven't atm specially sri lanka
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Some have figured out it’s ok to not get rid of him, it’s a safe ploy to be chasing 160-170 by the end of it.

When teams post close to 200, you can bet your bottom dollar Rizwan will not be the one at the end to ensure the score is chased down. It will have to be a Herculean effort by someone down the order to salvage
 
Rana said:
Some have figured out it’s ok to not get rid of him, it’s a safe ploy to be chasing 160-170 by the end of it.

When teams post close to 200, you can bet your bottom dollar Rizwan will not be the one at the end to ensure the score is chased down. It will have to be a Herculean effort by someone down the order to salvage
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If I posted a 200 total in t20 and a 300+ total in odi.

I'm sure as heck not getting rizzu out. In the same way I would make sure to not dismiss misbah.

Afridi at no 7 could still do something. Can't risk his once in a blue moon. Misbah and rizzu? Naw khletei raho bhai.

My only regret is that we never saw Misbah and rizzu bat together. If we had, I guarantee you we'd have pur no 1 pick for the worst duo 🤣🤣
 
mominsaigol said:
@Mrjungshook

Well yes and no. See rizzu in t20 wants to face as many balls as humanely possible and in t20 bowlers bowl fuller to try to bait batsmen to get out cause they want them to loft.

A few bowlers like Bumrah, Pandya, Cummins, Farooqi have figured out the fact that rizzu isn't your traditional t20 opener so just bowling line and length around the 3rd offstump line will get rid of him, but a few teams haven't atm specially sri lanka.

In odi, the reason he bats at 4 is because it's the perfect position. He has a very very poor technique to play new ball bowling, so rizzu ideally wants to come after 10 overs have been bowled and the ball has settled down.

No 5-7 is too low as as this coward is incapable of playing big shots or playing for the team. Opening or no 3 is too risky as pdi bowlers just bowl inswingers short of the length by default in odi.

His technique is garbage when it comes to playing seam movement. It's why netravalkar exposed this fraud in t20 wc 2024 and so did bumrah.

In tests he's fine for no 6, he's okay on pindi roads. Spin tracks or any overseas track he's useless.
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Well yes you have so many good points.
But let me give you one more reason for rizwan not to play at 6.
We have actually made a cancer culture in our team which is about batsmen average and their rankings.
It started with Babar the so called king and the rest are trying to imitate him now.
Rizwan wants to play for his average
if he comes at 6 he can actually play better because of old ball with no such swing, i have seen his shots and I can guarantee you this bloke can hit big. But he doens't want to
Why?
Average.
Why saim was struggling so much after getting so much hype?
Same reason
Play for good average and play for hundreds and rankings.
But I feel there has been some conversation between him and coach now he is playing freely without having this cancer culture burden.
Rizwan plays slow in t20 due to lack of technique against new ball and greediness of maintaining a good average.
Until and unless we don't remove this culture of slow hundreds, average and individual rankings our cricket will never go forward.
 
mominsaigol said:
If I posted a 200 total in t20 and a 300+ total in odi.

I'm sure as heck not getting rizzu out. In the same way I would make sure to not dismiss misbah.

Afridi at no 7 could still do something. Can't risk his once in a blue moon. Misbah and rizzu? Naw khletei raho bhai.

My only regret is that we never saw Misbah and rizzu bat together. If we had, I guarantee you we'd have pur no 1 pick for the worst duo 🤣🤣
Click to expand...
Even Misbah knew never to bat with Rizwan. He can’t let him steal his thunder.
 
Sher Khan said:
My brother it is time to accept the reality that Rizwan is the best wk batsman in Pakistan by a country mile.
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I acknowledge He is the best wicket keeper.

I do not acknowledge he is the best wicket keeper batsman.
 
Why people are so butt hurt about Rizwan?? Like seriously get a life brother.
Even if u loose by ten wickets he is staying captain. So get behind the team or keep whining like crybabies. The fact is you can't name a better wkt bat in pakistan and then back ur claim with performances
 
Jamal can come in for Niazi , that way it will be 5 proper bowlers this is a chance to create history, wicket will be good for pacers hopefully win the toss and blow out opposition
 
The words Pakistan, cricket match, and Perth together always gives me the shivers.

If it was Sydney or a lower bounce ground I'd be more confident. Need another worldie from Haris or someone else.
 
Only 3 of the World Cup winning team will be playing...

Inglis
Maxwell
Zampa...

So a great chance for a rare series victory.
 
Hyder said:
Why people are so butt hurt about Rizwan?? Like seriously get a life brother.
Even if u loose by ten wickets he is staying captain. So get behind the team or keep whining like crybabies. The fact is you can't name a better wkt bat in pakistan and then back ur claim with performances
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Nowt better to do...toxic.
 
Kianig89 said:
Jamal can come in for Niazi , that way it will be 5 proper bowlers this is a chance to create history, wicket will be good for pacers hopefully win the toss and blow out opposition
Click to expand...
Overrate will be an issue and if the pitch will be really good for pacers than four will be more than enough just like the first two games
 
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