Australia winning the Ashes will be a victory for Test cricket

[Mamoon]

I am frankly tired of England’s “we want to save Test cricket and entertain” narrative. It is a load of nonsense.

Firstly, no one appointed McCullum and Stokes to “save” Test cricket and secondly, Test cricket will not be “saved” with whacky declarations and ODI-style batting.

Furthermore, since when did winning and losing not matter and entertainment become the main objective? This is Test cricket not West End theatre . You are playing for your country. Winning is all that matters. For a supporter, there is no greater form of entertainment than seeing their team win.

I take great offense and I’m frankly bemused by Stokes’ multiple statements over the years where he has insisted that he doesn’t mind losing as long as his team can entertain.

A cricket captain, or a captain of and sports team that makes such statements deserved to be sacked from the job immediately.

The great irony is that the McCullum-inspired Bazball is exactly about the thing that they apparently don’t care about anymore, i.e. results.

The narrative that has been sold is that England want to play an entertainment brand of cricket but the reality is that the Bazball strategy was adopted out of necessity.

Apart from Joe Root and Pope, England do not have proper Test batsmen. Harry Brook is a brilliant talent but at this stage of his career, you cannot expect him to knuckle down and bat for 4 sessions.

All England have is a bunch of white ball players and the best way to play Test cricket with white ball players is to play….white ball cricket.

Harry Brook might not be able to bat 200 balls for 100 runs but he can slog for 75 balls. Bairstow is not a classical Test batsman but he is a brilliant ODI opener and that is exactly how he has been playing Test cricket for the past 12 months.

However, this is not sustainable. Eventually, the novelty factor will wear off and teams will adjust against England’s predictable approach of slogging their way out of trouble.

Australia winning this Ashes would be a good starting point and if they win, they will do it their way, the proper Test cricket way, the way the format has been played for over a century and they it will continue to be played in the future no matter how much the self-appointed saviors of cricket advocate against it.

Australia winning this Ashes will be a victory for Test cricket and will restore the sanctity of the format.

As far as Stokes’ captaincy is is concerned, we have to remember that this Bazball strategy is McCullum’s brainchild. He has always been a risk-taker and he took a risk that paid off for a while but it is nothing that England can sustain for the long-term.

Sooner or later, they will have to go back to traditional Test cricket which would make all these evangelical and preachy statements look ridiculous.

Stokes’ on-field captaincy has been greatly overstated. He has piggybacked McCullum but he has taken some very average decisions on the field.

The declaration was a disaster - Joe Root was in sublime form and Robinson was looking comfortable as well.

England could have easily added another 40-50 runs in no time and that could have been the difference between winning and losing this Test. Batting for another 10-15 overs wouldn’t have killed Test cricket.

He made a similar stupid declaration against Pakistan but Pakistan weren’t good enough to capitalize. Australia were.

After the dismissal of Carey, the English bowlers bowled abysmal lines and Stokes could not do anything to restrict the run flow. It was extremely easy for Cummins and Lyon to score runs.

It was reminiscent of Azhar Ali’s masterclass at Old Trafford 3 years ago when Buttler and Woakes snatched victory from the jaws of defeat and he was caught sleeping.

I challenge Stokes to have the courage to tell the world that he doesn’t care about losing if Australia wins this Ashes. It is easy to make such statements when you are tonking the opposition but it is a whole different ball game after a series defeat.

Good luck to Stokes telling the English media that he doesn’t care if his team loses because his West End theatre team only cares about entertainment. The same people who are waxing lyrical about Bazball will be criticizing England for being reckless.

Australia winning this series will not only be good for Test cricket but it will also teach England a lesson. This Bazball drama is not sustainable and these whacky declarations are not sustainable. White ball players in Test cricket are not sustainable.

Develop orthodox players, make measures declarations, tell your captain and coach to not give sermons on how Test cricket should be played and make it very clear to your captain that entertainment cannot take precedence over winning.

 

[Rana]

[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] you might have clocked on.

England appointed Stokes as captain to keep him interested and not retiring from this format too. (It wasn’t to save Test cricket)

On top of that, Stokes by nature is an extremely impatient person/cricketer. What you are basically seeing in England’s style of cricket is Stoke’s own impatient nature,

The guy is so bored of life it seems that he will just make decisions impulsively. At some point, it will start to hurt England

 

[Devadwal]

England making mockery of test cricket,plane and simple. This showoffs will not lusted more than a year when they lose this ashes .juat play on natural wickets which produces seam and swing not these flats wickets

 

[Ab Fan]

That's post of the week right there.

Making a mockery of the fundamentals of the game is not revolutionizing it just because it worked for some games vs some teams and that too at home.

 

[Rana]

That's post of the week right there.

Making a mockery of the fundamentals of the game is not revolutionizing it just because it worked for some games vs some teams and that too at home.

They wiped the floor with Pakistan in Pakistan

They made a mockery of our great cricket

 

[topspin]

Good post by OP as per usual.

But I would much rather see Pakistan play like England and lose a few than play Misbah's brand of tuk tuk and lose almost every single test match because he's inspired a generation of cricketers to play like timid kittens who are afraid to lose.

 

[kingusama92]

Bazball is fine but you can't start making silly decisions.

That early declaration killed England in the end and everyone knew it the moment it happened.

 

[Markhor]

I'm all for an attacking ethos but ENG would do well to drop the lectures to the rest of the world about the "right way" to play Test cricket.

If ENG are that concerned about the welfare of Test cricket in other nations, why not ask your Board to push for a more even distribution of ICC revenues ?

That being said, the difference in results between the Joe Root era and Ben Stokes' tenure is night and day. The OP conveniently forgets that Gentleman Joe won 1 Test in his last 17 and won only 2 Ashes Tests in 15 attempts (and we know who miraculously won one of them). No captain anywhere in the world would survive such a run.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Australia winning the Ashes will be a victory for Australia. That's it. England was a very very poor Test side before they started adopting bazball. For England this is a reasonably working approach. Others don't have to copy exactly. Even this match with a conventional approach England could have drawn the test. So i won't say this is a bad approach. But this can be improved for sure. Let every team play the way they want to. For England it works. We have to wait for the series to be over.

 

[jnaveen1980]

That's post of the week right there.

Making a mockery of the fundamentals of the game is not revolutionizing it just because it worked for some games vs some teams and that too at home.

Australia won the test at the mercy of England. Let us not forget it. They took a gamble Didn't pay off. I bet some of the captains will not declare until the target is 700 Michael Clarke was the first guy to adopt that balanced declaration. Declaration should be based on pitch, bowlers fitness, external intereferenec, time and whole lot of other factors.

 

[James]

An outstanding show put on by both teams. Congratulations to Australia for the great win!

Playing this way England have won 11 out of 14 Tests, and of the 3 losses, this was by 2 wickets and another was by 1 run, which is about as close and narrow as it gets. The results have improved enormously from where they were before and this is the right way for England to play, it just needs some tweaks. It’s only been a year, which is not a huge amount of time in cricket when it comes to building a team with a clear identity.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

I think you are reading too much into Stokes statements regarding not caring if they win or lose. He says it to try and take pressure off his team, its similar to Younis Khan's legendary fun cricket and WWE comments.

However, this attitude should not be misinterpreted as a lack of desire to win. Athletes like Stokes are fiercely competitive, and losses will always hurt. Moreover, their strategies, such as taking risks or selecting inexperienced players, might seem like crossing the line when they don't pay off, but these are the gambles that sometimes have to be taken to achieve success. Judging from Stokes reaction it was clear that he was crushed that they lost the match.

Stokes and Mccullum spoke at the start of their tenure about trying to find where the line was. I suspect that they have learned a harsh lesson that selecting a useless spinner who hasn't played in two years and trying to run down the wicket at Nathan Lyon in the second innings is crossing the line.

Australia winning the ashes won't be a victory for test cricket. It's just a victory for Australia. By saying this you are adopting a similar attitude to the Bazball evangelicals that you are criticising.

I suspect England will tone it down at some point but certain Bazball characteristics - namely going hard if the conditions allow it, thinking that fourth innings chases of high scores are possible and drawing tests is not necessarily an achievement, will remain and will have changed test cricket for the better.

 

[topspin]

I think you are reading too much into Stokes statements regarding not caring if they win or lose. He says it to try and take pressure off his team, its similar to Younis Khan's legendary fun cricket and WWE comments.

However, this attitude should not be misinterpreted as a lack of desire to win. Athletes like Stokes are fiercely competitive, and losses will always hurt. Moreover, their strategies, such as taking risks or selecting inexperienced players, might seem like crossing the line when they don't pay off, but these are the gambles that sometimes have to be taken to achieve success. Judging from Stokes reaction it was clear that he was crushed that they lost the match.

Stokes and Mccullum spoke at the start of their tenure about trying to find where the line was. I suspect that they have learned a harsh lesson that selecting a useless spinner who hasn't played in two years and trying to run down the wicket at Nathan Lyon in the second innings is crossing the line.

Australia winning the ashes won't be a victory for test cricket. It's just a victory for Australia. By saying this you are adopting a similar attitude to the Bazball evangelicals that you are criticising.

I suspect England will tone it down at some point but certain Bazball characteristics - namely going hard if the conditions allow it, thinking that fourth innings chases of high scores are possible and drawing tests is not necessarily an achievement, will remain and will have changed test cricket for the better.

I agree with this.

Moeen Ali lost this game for England.

 

[jnaveen1980]

An outstanding show put on by both teams. Congratulations to Australia for the great win!

Playing this way England have won 11 out of 14 Tests, and of the 3 losses, this was by 2 wickets and another was by 1 run, which is about as close and narrow as it gets. The results have improved enormously from where they were before and this is the right way for England to play, it just needs some tweaks. It’s only been a year, which is not a huge amount of time in cricket when it comes to building a team with a clear identity.

yea. But how long England can use these oldies? They may have the heart. But their bodies can't take it. Eventually will break. They have to move on to next gen. Also Stokes as a player has to contribute more than being a golden arm. England must be gutted to be on the losing side after putting themselves in a certain win situation thanks to some inept onfield calls.

 

[jnaveen1980]

I agree with this.

Moeen Ali lost this game for England.

No. Stokes that called back Moeen Ali lost the game. That guy stayed away from Test. He won the IPl and was in celebration mode. This guy dragged him out to play him in Tests. That is his mistake.

 

[sindhiboy]

All bazball needs is a little bit of common sense and logic. Both of England's losses were actually engalnd throwing it away after dominating most of the sessions of the tests. Reckless declarations and recklesss batting can be easily avoided. There is no need to throw away wickets when the batters are set , especially on a pancake pitch.

I dont see anything wrong with the funky field placements. It will give captains inspiration to think out of the box, it is a very good innovation.

Australia are still terrified of England now, despite their narrow win. Scoring 400 in one day gives a massive advantage and engalnd are spooking oppositions. England will most likely come back in this series and bazball will be praised yet again. It is here to stay imo

 

[JibranAnsari]

Good post.

I for one don't want england to change their approach at all. Lets forget what stokes is saying , when all of opposition bowlers are going at more than 6 runs an over the captains usually think about curbing the flow of runs than taking the wickets. Why score 3 when you can score 7 an over.Some incredible chases by england in the last few months.

Keep going like that.

 

[James]

That being said, the difference in results between the Joe Root era and Ben Stokes' tenure is night and day. The OP conveniently forgets that Joe won 1 Test in his last 17 and won only 2 Ashes Tests in 15 attempts (and we know who miraculously won one of them). No captain anywhere in the world would survive such a run.

That’s the thing isn’t it, the results have hugely improved. 11 Test wins and 3 losses, what’s that as a W/L ratio? I’ve never seen an England Test team win so often in my lifetime. There will always be the occasional loss, it’s part of the game.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Run scoring may not be a problem with this approach. Wicket taking will become a problem over time. 1000 wicket takers are not going to run in hard for them all the time. They are old. They will be tired. Best approach is 1980s Windies approach. Unleash 4 fast bowlers and bully the opposition. Johnson did in one of the Ashes. Australia had Warnie. It is an impossible ask to unearth someone like Warnie.

 

[James]

Good post.

I for one don't want england to change their approach at all. Lets forget what stokes is saying , when all of opposition bowlers are going at more than 6 runs an over the captains usually think about curbing the flow of runs than taking the wickets. Why score 3 when you can score 7 an over.Some incredible chases by england in the last few months.

Keep going like that.

I don’t like the term “Bazball”, but if that is the name for this approach, it is all still quite new. 14 Tests in English cricket is not a lot.

Brendon McCullum is only 12 months into a four year contract. He will be the England red ball coach for at least this full World Test Championship cycle, and possibly longer.

England’s initial form under McCullum and Stokes was so good that they rose up from the foot of the previous WTC table to briefly being in contention for the Final, which was a huge improvement.

I’d like to see this new two year cycle play out in full and then we can judge the evolution / outcome of England’s approach across this period, and we will start to see the success rate and legacy of “Bazball” at this point. England have now missed out on x2 WTC Finals and they need to get into the next one.

 

[Kroll]

tldr;

Really hope Eng win though, stuff the Aussies.

 

[Sunzi]

Youre funny. When Rishabh Pant plays this way they're ATG innings and the second coming of Gilly.

Of course England are playing to win. Part of the declaration was bravado and believing their own hype - it backfired. They were comfortably winning this test save for the Cummins and Lyon partnership that no one saw coming if we're all honest.

 

[James]

They were comfortably winning this test save for the Cummins and Lyon partnership that no one saw coming if we're all honest.

Yep. There were two teams playing. England actually did ok in this game. Made some mistakes but were in a winning position nonetheless. Australia had a fantastic partnership at the end which was too good, and that was the difference. The margin was two wickets, which is very small.

 

[Sunzi]

Yep. There were two teams playing. England actually did ok in this game. Made some mistakes but were in a winning position nonetheless. Australia had a fantastic partnership at the end which was too good, and that was the difference. The margin was two wickets, which is very small.

100%.

Australia weren't in this game at any stage. They were playing catch-up (and did so well) but England never closed the door on them when the opportunities presented; kept the Australians in touching distance throughout. It took a quite incredible (literal definition) partnership to wrestle the victory home from 8 down and 50+ required.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

I think Bazball needs to be seen in its proper context.

England do not have a lot of high quality orthodox Test batsmen coming through their system. They have adopted an approach that maximises their white ball hitting ability while also ensuring the pitches are flatter than they have been in a long time and that the Dukes is not the swinging weapon it was in years gone by.

Basically, Stokes wants flat pitches with minimal lateral movement to maximise their batting. It also came at a time when the previous WTC finalists were on a clear decline with players being past their best, being injured etc. Hence, India and NZ could not really challenge England .

The odd occasion the ball and the surface does so something, England have backed their fast medium attack to take full advantage of such conditions and to make it a shootout. SA series had a match or two that followed this script and SA's Test batting is a bit of a joke. They are playing their probabilities really well and it has worked more often than not.

Look at Crawley for instance. His record while playing defensive shots is worse than even tailenders playing test cricket today. He is much better off playing Bazball regardless of the pitch or bowlers.

The problem they will face in this Ashes is that Australia are a team that has some very high quality players and apart from Warner they are all at or near their peaks.

And this approach may not work against a team that has such depth, quality and an ability to adapt. Also, it wont work where the pitches and conditions won't suit either English batters or bowlers - Indian minefields where the ball rags and Australian pitches which need high pace high release bowlers etc.

Within the limitations of what this approach can achieve, I think England have done a helluva job. So that has to be appreciated.

 

[topspin]

No. Stokes that called back Moeen Ali lost the game. That guy stayed away from Test. He won the IPl and was in celebration mode. This guy dragged him out to play him in Tests. That is his mistake.

Did Moeen Ali do much in the IPL?

 

[Mamoon]

Youre funny. When Rishabh Pant plays this way they're ATG innings and the second coming of Gilly.

Of course England are playing to win. Part of the declaration was bravado and believing their own hype - it backfired. They were comfortably winning this test save for the Cummins and Lyon partnership that no one saw coming if we're all honest.

Your analogy is funnier.

Every team needs one attacking batsman who can counterpunch and take the game away from the opposition. Pant does that job brilliantly, probably better than anyone else in the game right now.

But you can’t have 7 Rishabh Pants in your batting lineup and ask them slog at 5 an over for 70 overs and then declare on day 1, giving the opposition ample time to work their way back into the match and you can’t ask your premier batsmen to reverse scoop fast bowlers in the first over of the day and charge spinners like you are playing T10 cricket and get stumped for no reason.

When England declared on 393 after 78 overs on day 1, Australia had about 45% chance of winning the match.

On the contrary, had England scored 500 in 5.5 sessions, like most normal teams would try to do, Australia would have almost no chance of winning this match because scoreboard pressure and forcing the opposition to try to save the game will never be out of fashion.

You cannot ask your master batsman Joe Root to reverse scoop fast bowlers in the first over of the day. It is a joke.

What McCullum and Stokes are doing to Joe Root in the prime of his career is absolute nonsense. They have cost him at least 3-4 hundreds in the last 2-3 series with their circus cricket.

They are also destroying Harry Brook, the most gifted batsman England have produced since Joe Root. Bazball helped him hit the ground running in the format, but it is terrible for his long-term development.

They are turning him into a slogger who will not have the temperament and the patience to grind runs and end up a 35 averaging batsman like Buttler and Bairstow rather than a 50 averaging batsman like Root.

Stokes himself has been hacking with closed eyes like a tailender. He is contributing nothing with the bat and let his team down with the bat in both innings.

This Bazball stuff is total whack. It is nonsense and it cannot stand the test of time.

The Cummins and Lyon partnership was the difference in the end, it is true, and it mainly happened because Stokes’ captaincy was poor as it usually is.

However, his captaincy was not the only reason. The other reason was there was enough overs to play with exclude the possibility of drawing the match and moreover, the series of mistakes that England made throughout this game led to this point.

Australia knew that the RRR was never going to be out of reach simply because England gave them all the time in the world to chase the total. A lot of fourth innings chases collapse because the batsmen are caught in two minds whether to go for the chase or play for a draw.

England with their one trick pony, simpleton brand of cricket fail to realize that drawing Test matches is a very important part of playing this format. It has a psychological impact on the players and it is not a bad result under so many circumstances.

McCullum and Stokes are conning fans into thinking that draws are bad for the game and should be eliminated. They couldn’t be more wrong.

 

[Mamoon]

Why is Stokes even playing when he can barely walk? Is he trying to prove that he puts the team above himself after sitting out of the Test series vs India and the T20 World Cup in 2021 when he was fully fit?

Is he trying to prove that he puts the team above himself after retiring from ODIs just a year before the 2023 World Cup when he is still the best all-rounder in England?

Is he trying to prove that English cricket is his main priority after he made himself available for IPL 2023 when he was nowhere near fit enough and had to take injections before the start of the tournament? A tournament where he played when he was not fit enough and *surprise* ended up aggravating his injury.

If England was his main priority, he would have opted out of the IPL and there is a very good chance that he would not be hopping on one leg now.

He has been hopping on one leg, doing a terrible cosplay of Shahid Afridi with the bat and bowling 60 mph pies like Harold Larwood, the world’s fastest bowler in the 1930s.

In 2023, the England Test team is being led by a man who opted out of England’s most important Test series of 2021 and who decided to play a franchise T20 tournament with a hurt knee right before an Ashes series instead of resting and refueling himself for the Ashes.

Stokes should be absolutely not be captain of the England team. What he did in the summer of 2019 will never be forgotten, but he has set a terribly precedence in the last two years and is by no means a role model for any aspiring English cricketer anymore.

 

[in_cutter]

Anyone else tired of hearing about Stokes from English commentators? Stokes this, Stokes that. Not everything happens on the field because of him. Give it a rest.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Did Moeen Ali do much in the IPL?

No he failed there as well. Hardly used as a bowler. Also failed with bat. Just that Stokes and Moeen both play for CSK under Dhoni.

 

[Abdullah]

Really dumb declaration.
He could have got England 50 runs in 5 overs at that time and then wouldnt have needed 10 to 12 overs to make those same runs in the second innings (based on team run rate in second innings), so he still could have been in control of the time issue that he foresaw.
I've believed bazball isn't sustainable all along but I'm not going in too hard on stokes. Since he has got his feet under the table England have only lost 2 tests and that too in the absolute dying stages of the game.
Let's not forget he largely has the same average players who won a few matches in about 15 games at the back end of the root reign also, and those same average players cost him this game- in this case the average wicketkeeper that is Jonny Bairstow.

It won't look good if England lose the ashes - and it's ominous that head smith and labus barely scored 100 between them this time around.

Interesting!

 

[Abdullah]

I think you are reading too much into Stokes statements regarding not caring if they win or lose. He says it to try and take pressure off his team, its similar to Younis Khan's legendary fun cricket and WWE comments.

However, this attitude should not be misinterpreted as a lack of desire to win. Athletes like Stokes are fiercely competitive, and losses will always hurt. Moreover, their strategies, such as taking risks or selecting inexperienced players, might seem like crossing the line when they don't pay off, but these are the gambles that sometimes have to be taken to achieve success. Judging from Stokes reaction it was clear that he was crushed that they lost the match.

Stokes and Mccullum spoke at the start of their tenure about trying to find where the line was. I suspect that they have learned a harsh lesson that selecting a useless spinner who hasn't played in two years and trying to run down the wicket at Nathan Lyon in the second innings is crossing the line.

Australia winning the ashes won't be a victory for test cricket. It's just a victory for Australia. By saying this you are adopting a similar attitude to the Bazball evangelicals that you are criticising.

I suspect England will tone it down at some point but certain Bazball characteristics - namely going hard if the conditions allow it, thinking that fourth innings chases of high scores are possible and drawing tests is not necessarily an achievement, will remain and will have changed test cricket for the better.

Well put - potw.
Bairstow lost England the game here- not bazball.
Night and day between his keeping and Carey

 

[James]

and it's ominous that head smith and labus barely scored 100 between them this time around.

Ominous — or a big positive?

England clearly had formulated solid plans in advance for bowling to all three of these guys and getting them out.

They need to rethink RE: how they are going to get Khawaja out though!

 

[jnaveen1980]

Ominous — or a big positive?

England clearly had formulated solid plans in advance for bowling to all three of these guys and getting them out.

They need to rethink RE: how they are going to get Khawaja out though!

Broad is your weapon. But he has to bowl over the wicket. Right arm seamers bowling over the wicket. Siraj's natural bowling style is bowling over the wicket. Nailed him both times for 0 and 1. Off spinners are your best bet. Greame swann has had fair success early in his career. In recent times he has struggled against Ashwin. Also you have to bowl chest height bouncer. Not half tracker in the name of bouncer and have two guys in square leg area.

 

[shamaan]

Well put - potw.
Bairstow lost England the game here- not bazball.
Night and day between his keeping and Carey

Exactly they lost the test due to Baistrow but he won't receive much criticism due to how he bats.

 

[Technics 1210]

The new WTC cycle begins with this Ashes series, and I want to see if Bazball gets England to the WTC finals in 2025.

Reality is despite Bazball with the bat, England just do not have a bowling unit to defend runs let alone take 20 wickets. Cummins was batting with his tailender and remarkably had the confidence in Lyon to hold up his end, which he did.

Jimmy is finished. Not a single ball after tea, and Moeen is frankly a part time bowler with his injury; Root the real part-timer ended up bowling more effectively. Broad was England's top bowler but even he was out of gas in the final hour, and remember, there were only 2 sessions today.

Ollie Robinson has much to learn, and when Stoke calls upon the bowling services of Brooks, you know England are just gambling.

Bazball will backfire just like the day 1 declaration did. Absolute craziness to declare on day 1 batting on a road. KP was right, 450+ score and the game was firmly in England's control but instead Stoke went true gladiator style because he wanted to entertain and in the process handed a winning opportunity to Australia.

If England lose the Ashes, Jimmy will retire for sure anyway, Moeen will retire from Test cricket, again, and my money is on Stokes making some nonsensical claim about his mental health.

 

[shaz619]

This is literally a minority view, Joe Root was going to take England back into the 90’s. Who wanted that? people are normally unreceptive to radical change but these things take time and we’ve seen positive results under the new regime and it’s great to watch, why any sane neutral would complain is beyond me….

 

[shaz619]

Also the declaration was wild yes, but all things considered including the turbulent and unpredictable birmingham weather, it was positive for the game, England just fell short

 

[jnaveen1980]

From an England perspective this works far better for them. Nobody should take a dig at their approach. It will work Temporarily atleast. But this is unsustainable approach. So during this period they should gradually build a traditional test side because 20 wickets with Leach/Robinson/41 year old Anderson/38 year old Broad in all the places is a near impossible task. If they play with this approach at Mirpur pitch Bangladesh will devour them.

 

[Champ_Pal]

Bazball is still the way to go. But you do not declare on Day-1 with only 380 on board. That was a terrible decision and it costed England the Test.

England must continue to play aggressively and they have the team to do it. They just have to change their bowling lineup. Trundlers of similar pedigree will not work. Get an enforcer in the team like Wood and select a spinner that is not injured.

If Test Cricket is still played at 2.8-3.0 RPO in traditional way, it will die pretty quickly.

 

[Firebat]

This was an ATG match was won on very very fine margins. Far too fine to make any sweeping conclusions about Bazball or style of play.

The fact is that England play to the strengths of their talent pool with Bazball and Australia theirs. On this occasion, Australia came out on top. If some tiny things had gone the other way, England might have come out on top. Trying to say anything more at this stage of the series is just overanalysing really.

And you have also overanalysed Stokes' comments in the media. Of course they try to win, but from a mental POV Bazball only works if its played without fear, so he says these things in the media to induce that fearlessness within his players.

Like I said, let's see what happens after the 5 games.

 

[Ab Fan]

Your analogy is funnier.

Every team needs one attacking batsman who can counterpunch and take the game away from the opposition. Pant does that job brilliantly, probably better than anyone else in the game right now.

But you can’t have 7 Rishabh Pants in your batting lineup and ask them slog at 5 an over for 70 overs and then declare on day 1, giving the opposition ample time to work their way back into the match and you can’t ask your premier batsmen to reverse scoop fast bowlers in the first over of the day and charge spinners like you are playing T10 cricket and get stumped for no reason.

When England declared on 393 after 78 overs on day 1, Australia had about 45% chance of winning the match.

On the contrary, had England scored 500 in 5.5 sessions, like most normal teams would try to do, Australia would have almost no chance of winning this match because scoreboard pressure and forcing the opposition to try to save the game will never be out of fashion.

You cannot ask your master batsman Joe Root to reverse scoop fast bowlers in the first over of the day. It is a joke.

What McCullum and Stokes are doing to Joe Root in the prime of his career is absolute nonsense. They have cost him at least 3-4 hundreds in the last 2-3 series with their circus cricket.

They are also destroying Harry Brook, the most gifted batsman England have produced since Joe Root. Bazball helped him hit the ground running in the format, but it is terrible for his long-term development.

They are turning him into a slogger who will not have the temperament and the patience to grind runs and end up a 35 averaging batsman like Buttler and Bairstow rather than a 50 averaging batsman like Root.

Exactly my point as well. Root is not meant to play this type of cricket. He still uses his brain and try to play smartly but those scoops vs Cummins in a Test cricket make him look like such an ugly batsman.

 

[Liverpool_Faizan]

I think they would have won this with leach on the team and if they had held some of their catches.

 

[Muhammad Saad]

They couldn’t get the tail out otherwise they dominated the whole match with their approach. Perhaps declaring early was a bad move

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Declaring on the first day is usually stupid. Of the notable cases, I remember Faf doing that in 2016 in Australia in 3rd test when Usman went on to score a century.

The other time was Michael Clarke doing that in India in 2013 in 1st or 2nd test. Both teams lost that game. SA lost by a narrow margin just like England did today.

Bazball is fine as long as they don't make howlers like these. 393 is not a total to declare on that too on the first day. They made a similar sort of decision against NZ earlier this year in a test they lost by 1 run.

They just need to be a little more logical. Apart from that, it's going fine.

The worrying thing was Anderson being very toothless.

 

[Ab Fan]

I think they would have won this with leach on the team and if they had held some of their catches.

Aussies have lot of lefties. Guys like Head would find it easy against him, even the other lefties in that team too.

 

[Energy]

England know how to brand things. They've only recently gone on a winning streak and they've branded their style as saving test cricket. And that this Ashes can be the greatest ever. Well- not really if Australia end up smashing it 3-0 first three games. And it's also very likely England will lose the series or even be whitewashed when they tour Australia or India. So, yes doesn't save test cricket.

Pakistan also had their own boring but effective style under Misbah with Younis, Azhar, Yasir at the helm. Led to us winning games too at a stretch so I don't mind England's bazball at all. But as the OP says, it gets ridiculous when they brand this approach as the one to save test cricket. Then it looks plain stupid.

Broad gesturing to the crowd and then getting smoked for an on-drive by Lyon was hilarious yesterday.

 

[jnaveen1980]

The way i say it , each innings should be a combination of aggressive and traditional approach not exclusively one approach. It depends on the situation. Australia's 2000 method was good. They used to score 4 an over. Bulldozed everyone at home. When India toured at the Adelaide Test they piled up 556 runs. In return India made 523. In the second dig Australia wanted to play aggressively and set a challenging target. A line up that had Langer/Haydos/Ponting/Martyn/Steve waugh/Katich/Gilly/Bichel/Gillepsie imploded for 196 runs. Agarkar took 6 wickets. India needed 233 and Dravid's heroics won the match. Steve waugh was miffed at the all out attack approach of Australia.

https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/no-excuses-says-buchanan-125842

This is what John Buchanan had to say

"There are days when teams will get bowled out for 196 if the conditions favour bowlers and the bowling is exceptional. Sadly, we can't offer those excuses today.

"We always look to play aggressive cricket. It's part of our batting philosophy, we try to score off as many balls as possible. That's how we have been successful. But some of the shot selection from our top six batsmen was not good enough today. The Indian bowlers bowled in the right areas, give them credit for that. But our batting performance was immature."

This is not a new approach. This is a working approach because it puts the steady bowlers off their c omfort zone. Just that you have to be judicious.

 

[Mamoon]

Bazball is still the way to go. But you do not declare on Day-1 with only 380 on board. That was a terrible decision and it costed England the Test.

England must continue to play aggressively and they have the team to do it. They just have to change their bowling lineup. Trundlers of similar pedigree will not work. Get an enforcer in the team like Wood and select a spinner that is not injured.

If Test Cricket is still played at 2.8-3.0 RPO in traditional way, it will die pretty quickly.

It is a myth that Test cricket will be revived and see a boost in popularity and viewership with aggressive batting.

This whole Bazball stuff started 12 months ago and there is not a shred of evidence that it has boosted viewership and made the format more popular among the masses.

People who don’t like Test cricket still don’t like it. They don’t care how fast England are scoring. People around me who don’t have appetite for the format have not been hooked since Bazball was introduced.

On the contrary, those who love Test cricket will continue to love the format even if it is played at a slow rate. They also don’t mind draws because it is an integral part of the format.

The fundamental problem for Test cricket is not the scoring rate. It is the fact that the match lasts for 5 days and most people don’t have the time or the appetite for it.

Test cricket will never appeal to the masses again simply because they get their fill from white ball cricket.

Bazball has done nothing and will do nothing to face Test cricket or boost its popularity. It is just England’s delusion.

 

[Rana]

Stokes said that he will declare an innings as well if need be at some point

The guy is extremely volatile

 

[Rana]

Imagine Ben Stokes as the President of South Korea

The man can cause world destruction within minutes if given the power of a nuclear state

 

[kingusama92]

[/b]

It is a myth that Test cricket will be revived and see a boost in popularity and viewership with aggressive batting.

This whole Bazball stuff started 12 months ago and there is not a shred of evidence that it has boosted viewership and made the format more popular among the masses.

People who don’t like Test cricket still don’t like it. They don’t care how fast England are scoring. People around me who don’t have appetite for the format have not been hooked since Bazball was introduced.

On the contrary, those who love Test cricket will continue to love the format even if it is played at a slow rate. They also don’t mind draws because it is an integral part of the format.

The fundamental problem for Test cricket is not the scoring rate. It is the fact that the match lasts for 5 days and most people don’t have the time or the appetite for it.

Test cricket will never appeal to the masses again simply because they get their fill from white ball cricket.

Bazball has done nothing and will do nothing to face Test cricket or boost its popularity. It is just England’s delusion.

I don't think it's England's delusion.

I think it's a carefully designed strategic movement to galvanize the troops. They were down and out with Root and needed a supercharged change such as this to turn things around.

The rest is just for media consumption. Having an "English" way (Bazball) of playing is great for team-building at the national level. For a long time, the Australians used a similar strategy with their "mental disintegration" mantra and got everyone to buy in.

When you have no singular focus, you end up like Pakistan from the 90s. Lots of talent with a headless approach to winning.

The effect on Test cricket is more of a media play. To be fair, it almost worked against the Aussies cause they came out super defensive on day 1. I agree it won't change much at the macro level. But it will have a positive effect on English cricket and it already has. You can try going back to the old-fashioned style and this same English team would get obliterated. I guarantee it.

They're all buying in and that's elevating their game as a unit.

Of course, I still think Bazball doesn't mean you start making nonsensical declarations like Stokes did but the strategy itself is a good one.

 

[gazza619]

There is no victory or loss of test cricket by England or Australia winning.

Every test in England is a victory for test cricket simply due to the amazing crowd turnout.

I would suggest England should build an indoor cricket stadium and also hold test cricket during winter.

 

[Mamoon]

This is literally a minority view, Joe Root was going to take England back into the 90’s. Who wanted that? people are normally unreceptive to radical change but these things take time and we’ve seen positive results under the new regime and it’s great to watch, why any sane neutral would complain is beyond me….

The core issue during Root’s time was not his captaincy but the fact that England did not have Test quality batsman.

Root was the only Test batsman in the team and he was surrounded by a bunch of white ball players + Stokes who will never be a consistent batsman.

The only thing that changed was McCullum getting the same group of players together and asking them to play Test cricket in white ball style.

There is no doubt it has produced results, but it is not sustainable and neither is it a recipe for long-term success in this format. Essentially, Bazball is genius when you win but reckless when you lose.

Stokes as captain has been benefiting from a strategy that was implemented by McCullum. This brand of cricket would have absolutely not existed if Stokes was paired with a different coach.

McCullum is a risk-taker. He has taken risks throughout his career and if it works it works but if it doesn’t, it looks ugly as hell.

He decided to slog Starc out of MCG in the first over of the most important ODI match in NZ history - the 2015 World Cup final - and had his stumps uprooted. Later on, he said he forgot to watch the ball.

World Cup Final. Captain of his country. Facing the most lethal fast bowler in the world and he forgot to watch the ball. This is the irresponsible, suicidal maverick that ECB entrusted with reviving their fortunes in Test cricket.

Stokes is also not the right man for the job because he is very emotional and unstable. Any cricketer who takes a lengthy break and misses key series and tournaments for his country due to mental health issues is not worthy or fit to be captain of his country.

I am also bemused by the fact that he is currently hobbling on one knee in the Ashes because he refused to opt out of the IPL when he was in no shape or form fit enough to play and ended up aggravating his injury.

As the Test captain, he should have absolutely not played in this year’s IPL and instead he should have been resting and refueling himself for the Ashes.

Had he done that, he wouldn’t be hopping one leg right know and bowling slower than Boycott’s grandma. He looks like he can drop dead on the pitch any time. Why is he not being criticized by the English press for participating in the IPL when he was not fit?

There has also been a lot of sugar-coating of his captaincy on the field. He has been nothing but average but every move he makes is lauded as genius.

He costed England with an idiotic declaration and he looked completely clueless and helpless in the last half hour of Australia’s chase yesterday. It reminded me of Azhar Ali against Buttler and Woakes 3 years ago. If this was Joe Root, he would get crucified for his poor tactics and weak leadership.

England will pay a price for hounding a gentleman like Root out of captaincy. A man who has always been there for England and has never put himself above English cricket. Not even once. He is always available.

This Bazball drama will end in tears, McCullum will run away and probably take up the NZ job and Stokes will play the mental health card and probably retire. When the dust settles, England will be back to square one with white ball players trying to play Test cricket and failing. In between, the only constant will be Joe Root, the greatest batsman England has ever produced.

 

[sindhiboy]

Totally agree with the point of root being robbed of centuries by forcing himself to play reckless shots
He was stumped for the first time in his test career. He was strolling to another century in his second innings, but threw it away

Joe is now the number 1 ranked test batter again, He proved he can bazball and has taken his batting to the next level. But Stokes and McCullum don't need to absolutely dictate terms to him now

 

[Major]

I don't think it's England's delusion.

I think it's a carefully designed strategic movement to galvanize the troops. They were down and out with Root and needed a supercharged change such as this to turn things around.

The rest is just for media consumption. Having an "English" way (Bazball) of playing is great for team-building at the national level. For a long time, the Australians used a similar strategy with their "mental disintegration" mantra and got everyone to buy in.

When you have no singular focus, you end up like Pakistan from the 90s. Lots of talent with a headless approach to winning.

The effect on Test cricket is more of a media play. To be fair, it almost worked against the Aussies cause they came out super defensive on day 1. I agree it won't change much at the macro level. But it will have a positive effect on English cricket and it already has. You can try going back to the old-fashioned style and this same English team would get obliterated. I guarantee it.

They're all buying in and that's elevating their game as a unit.

Of course, I still think Bazball doesn't mean you start making nonsensical declarations like Stokes did but the strategy itself is a good one.

potw

short and crisp, and i fully agree with this

 

[TheSultan]

I think the attitude is correct - it’s refreshing to see a change. Entertainment does matter because none of us would be following cricket if we weren’t “entertained” by it at some point in our lives.

The Pak-Aus series last year would have really turned a lot of fans off.

What I don’t think is right is this perception that it’s only batting that entertains. This idea of preparing flat tracks so Bazball can be maximised is at the expense of the traditional “entertainment” you had with series in England with the ball hooping round corners

People can wax lyrical about Broad and Anderson bowling in to their 40s, but it was incredibly boring watching England bowl. You either need to fill your team with some pace or give the pitches some assistance

 

[Mamoon]

Bazball is like a Class A drug. It is destroying English cricket for short-term euphoria.

It is destroying the careers of Joe Root and Harry Brook. Joe Root is throwing his peak away because of garbage Bazball tactics and Harry Brook is being forced to become a slogger.


McCullum and Stokes are destroying Brook. Under their influence, he will end up a 35-36 averaging player like them, but he has the potential to be so much more and have Root like numbers.

Thankfully this Bazball cancer didn’t exist when Root started his career.

Instead of averaging 50 with 30 hundreds at a SR of 56, he would be averaging 35 with 15 hundreds at a SR of 75.

 

[Technics 1210]

Let us not also forget, Stokes asked for flat wickets for the Ashes. He clearly has aggressive batting in mind, but his bowlers will struggle. When the new ball was taken yesterday, Jimmy was nowhere to be seen. This is not Bazball, this is BizzareBall!

 

[sindhiboy]

Despite the nonsensical declaration and the reckless batting on a pancake, England were still pretty dominant for most of this test.England just took this game deep themselves

Australia had the best of conditions and alot of luck went their way, they just barely scrapped through thanks to cummins and few other factors like Bairstow dropping a million catches

Despite all of that, with Mark wood picked over Jimmy, eng would've won this game easily. And a spinner who doesn't bowl a hundred pies in between good deliveries would be ideal also

So it's not doom and gloom for bazball, just needs a little common sense. I still think England will comeback and win the series.

Maybe bazball will diminish in the future but it is here to stay for a few years atleast

 

[Mamoon]

Despite the nonsensical declaration and the reckless batting on a pancake, England were still pretty dominant for most of this test.England just took this game deep themselves

Australia had the best of conditions and alot of luck went their way, they just barely scrapped through thanks to cummins and few other factors like Bairstow dropping a million catches

Despite all of that, with Mark wood picked over Jimmy, eng would've won this game easily. And a spinner who doesn't bowl a hundred pies in between good deliveries would be ideal also

So it's not doom and gloom for bazball, just needs a little common sense. I still think England will comeback and win the series.

Maybe bazball will diminish in the future but it is here to stay for a few years atleast

Dropped catches and Stokes poor captaincy helped Australia considerably, but this is not good luck. It is the ineptness of the opposition.

The real difference maker was Usman Khawaja who scored 206 runs at a SR of 39. It was proper Test batting.

The best thing Australia did was to not get seduced or intimidated or influenced by England’s whacky stuff. They stuck to their guns and played proper Test cricket.

The lesson for other team is that they should not try to beat England at their own game. Stick to classic Test cricket and Bazball will self-destruct.

Traditional Test cricket has survived the test of time. Bazball will not.

 

[Kroll]

It could be argued that Bazball is enhancing the careers of the likes of Brooks rather than destroying it. Whose to say that if he tried playing like what is considered technically correct at 2/3 rpo that he would be more of a success than now, his current ave despite limited no. of games is off the scales.

Brooks is relishing in the system and is all the better for it. There's been many that have come through the system over the years but have just faded away. Bazball is good to watch and its up to other teams to counter it.
Its a fallacy that England are claiming they are saving Test cricket lol.

 

[adi_62941]

This Test match could have resulted in a boring draw if stokes had not declared on the first day.
Beleive it or not, bazball make it look more interesting. For the first time since 2005 and 2007, i am now interested in watching Ashes. And followed this test match with great interest because of aggressive, new looking english side.

I dont know why people are criticizing bazball, its innovative strategy which make things interesting. For sure generates interest about test cricket in new lads and bring more people in stadiums. Cricket will surely need this and all those old mind people need to come out of their boredom. Tests should and can also be played with aggressive batting and bowling just like ODI and T20s.

Asians and especially south asians always learn the art of advanced thinking at the very last, thats is our history.

 

[Technics 1210]

It could be argued that Bazball is enhancing the careers of the likes of Brooks rather than destroying it. Whose to say that if he tried playing like what is considered technically correct at 2/3 rpo that he would be more of a success than now, his current ave despite limited no. of games is off the scales.

Brooks is relishing in the system and is all the better for it. There's been many that have come through the system over the years but have just faded away. Bazball is good to watch and its up to other teams to counter it.
Its a fallacy that England are claiming they are saving Test cricket lol.

Yeah, I can see Brooks the leading English wicket taker in a series, in years to come. (Tongue firmly in cheek comment)

People seem to forget that Bazball isn't just about batting; it is also about bowling - and we saw some of the unorthodox fielding settings (Umbrella field for example). Sadly, England just did not have the bowlers to pull it off.

Element of surprise (such as with Brooks bowling) is not an example of Bazball, it's a sign of gambling on the field and hoping for the best.

 

[jnaveen1980]

You can do bazball in batting still. Rishab Pant was doing it well before Bazball of England. He proved to be effective by putting bowlers off the lengths. England can also continue albeit they should let Root be old Root. But real problem will always be bowling. Let us say opposition bats first and scores 350. you bat second you pile up 380 in say 70 overs and declare. That means your bowlers had rest only for 2.5 sessions. Then they have to bowl again. You are running them to ground. You don't provide adequate rest to them by batting a little longer. This will make his bowlers always on the field almost every day.

 

[Mamoon]

“We sent a message to Australia” - Stokes

What message was that? That his captaincy was garbage and his team’s whack brand of cricket fell on its face?

 

[Kroll]

It was nice and gracious of Stokes to give Oz a head start as soon the Bazball machine revs up and gets into gear, it will steam roller these upstarts into submission and begging for mercy.

Not only do Pak team have big hearts.

 

[adi_62941]

“We sent a message to Australia” - Stokes

What message was that? That his captaincy was garbage and his team’s whack brand of cricket fell on its face?

Atleast he made hell interesting for you people to follow this test match very closely and dont take it as just like another test match. Isn't interesting?

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Dropped catches and Stokes poor captaincy helped Australia considerably, but this is not good luck. It is the ineptness of the opposition.

The real difference maker was Usman Khawaja who scored 206 runs at a SR of 39. It was proper Test batting.

The best thing Australia did was to not get seduced or intimidated or influenced by England’s whacky stuff. They stuck to their guns and played proper Test cricket.

The lesson for other team is that they should not try to beat England at their own game. Stick to classic Test cricket and Bazball will self-destruct.

Traditional Test cricket has survived the test of time. Bazball will not.

I agree with you that Bazball won't save Test cricket. And I also agree that Bazball won't work everywhere and against everyone .

But why do you think England with its current talent pool will fare better by playing traditional cricket?

Joe Root debuted in 2012. How many technically correct batsmen capable of playing lime Khawaja have England produced since then.

The CC season has been pushed to the margins and the pitches are not good for developing classical batsmen like Khawaja. Also, 18 counties is way too many and it has proved to be very difficult to reform that into a high quality domestic structure like Sheffield Shield.

Zak Crawley CANNOT ever play like Usman Khawaja. Simply because the wickets in county are either extremely bowler friendly or extremely flat. There is no point in trying to play correctly and in an orthodox manner.

So you have a whole generation of English batsmen who don't have a defence they can trust. Zak Crawley gets out every 32nd defensive stroke he plays. That's the lowest in modern Test cricket history.

In fact, it is lower than Siddle, Anderson, Ishant and Roach - not just other batsmen.

The English openers with more orthodox techniques were deemed to be the likes of Alex Lees and Rory Burns and we all saw what happened to them

There is no evidence that high quality white ball batsmen are doing any worse than the more orthodox ones .

Sheffield Shield is played on pitches that have bounce but don't jag around and even when they are flat , the ball is bouncing a lot higher than in England and so batsmen cannot simply Bazball their way against pace bowlers.

So their batsmen are forced to develop a good defensive technique and only someone like Travis whose defence is suspect takes the Bazball approach more often than not.

Also you said there was nothing wrong with Root's captaincy but they didn't have the batsmen under his captaincy.

Are you saying they are suddenly producing batsmen who can bat like Khawaja? Khawaja who had a ridiculously low false shot percentage of 8 in his first innings knock.

There is no player in CC who can bat like that against county attacks let alone international attacks.

Against top sides, England have won 10 and lost 3 in the Bazball era. Root went through a time when his team won 1 in 17 tests.

So again, there's no evidence to suggest that this approach is not he best approach for England.

Unless CC is reformed and they play on much better pitches and develop a generation of high quality red ball batsmen, this is comfortably a better approach for them .

 

[sweep_shot]

England's Bazball wins all came against weakened/declining sides on flat/English pitches.

England are yet to win anything in subcontinent (minus Pakistan) or Australia. They even drew 1-1 in New Zealand.

Australia are showing why Bazball is utter nonsense.

On turning tracks, these Bazballers may turn into BazBunnies.

 

[shaz619]

The core issue during Root’s time was not his captaincy but the fact that England did not have Test quality batsman.

Root was the only Test batsman in the team and he was surrounded by a bunch of white ball players + Stokes who will never be a consistent batsman.

The only thing that changed was McCullum getting the same group of players together and asking them to play Test cricket in white ball style.

There is no doubt it has produced results, but it is not sustainable and neither is it a recipe for long-term success in this format. Essentially, Bazball is genius when you win but reckless when you lose.

Stokes as captain has been benefiting from a strategy that was implemented by McCullum. This brand of cricket would have absolutely not existed if Stokes was paired with a different coach.

McCullum is a risk-taker. He has taken risks throughout his career and if it works it works but if it doesn’t, it looks ugly as hell.

He decided to slog Starc out of MCG in the first over of the most important ODI match in NZ history - the 2015 World Cup final - and had his stumps uprooted. Later on, he said he forgot to watch the ball.

World Cup Final. Captain of his country. Facing the most lethal fast bowler in the world and he forgot to watch the ball. This is the irresponsible, suicidal maverick that ECB entrusted with reviving their fortunes in Test cricket.

Stokes is also not the right man for the job because he is very emotional and unstable. Any cricketer who takes a lengthy break and misses key series and tournaments for his country due to mental health issues is not worthy or fit to be captain of his country.

I am also bemused by the fact that he is currently hobbling on one knee in the Ashes because he refused to opt out of the IPL when he was in no shape or form fit enough to play and ended up aggravating his injury.

As the Test captain, he should have absolutely not played in this year’s IPL and instead he should have been resting and refueling himself for the Ashes.

Had he done that, he wouldn’t be hopping one leg right know and bowling slower than Boycott’s grandma. He looks like he can drop dead on the pitch any time. Why is he not being criticized by the English press for participating in the IPL when he was not fit?

There has also been a lot of sugar-coating of his captaincy on the field. He has been nothing but average but every move he makes is lauded as genius.

He costed England with an idiotic declaration and he looked completely clueless and helpless in the last half hour of Australia’s chase yesterday. It reminded me of Azhar Ali against Buttler and Woakes 3 years ago. If this was Joe Root, he would get crucified for his poor tactics and weak leadership.

England will pay a price for hounding a gentleman like Root out of captaincy. A man who has always been there for England and has never put himself above English cricket. Not even once. He is always available.

This Bazball drama will end in tears, McCullum will run away and probably take up the NZ job and Stokes will play the mental health card and probably retire. When the dust settles, England will be back to square one with white ball players trying to play Test cricket and failing. In between, the only constant will be Joe Root, the greatest batsman England has ever produced.

They need the right personality for bazzball, someone like Stokes despite his flaws is perfect to execute the vision. You can’t do bazzball with Rooty as captain, he is too orthodox. It’s possible this high risk approach may lead to failure, but it has yielded better results in recent times for the English side and gives hope, lets see where we are by the end of the series

 

[Mamoon]

Atleast he made hell interesting for you people to follow this test match very closely and dont take it as just like another test match. Isn't interesting?

Yeah because I and others were not watching Test cricket and Ashes before Bazball. The stadiums would have been empty without Bazball like every Ashes before this.

 

[Mamoon]

I agree with you that Bazball won't save Test cricket. And I also agree that Bazball won't work everywhere and against everyone .

But why do you think England with its current talent pool will fare better by playing traditional cricket?

Joe Root debuted in 2012. How many technically correct batsmen capable of playing lime Khawaja have England produced since then.

The CC season has been pushed to the margins and the pitches are not good for developing classical batsmen like Khawaja. Also, 18 counties is way too many and it has proved to be very difficult to reform that into a high quality domestic structure like Sheffield Shield.

Zak Crawley CANNOT ever play like Usman Khawaja. Simply because the wickets in county are either extremely bowler friendly or extremely flat. There is no point in trying to play correctly and in an orthodox manner.

So you have a whole generation of English batsmen who don't have a defence they can trust. Zak Crawley gets out every 32nd defensive stroke he plays. That's the lowest in modern Test cricket history.

In fact, it is lower than Siddle, Anderson, Ishant and Roach - not just other batsmen.

The English openers with more orthodox techniques were deemed to be the likes of Alex Lees and Rory Burns and we all saw what happened to them

There is no evidence that high quality white ball batsmen are doing any worse than the more orthodox ones .

Sheffield Shield is played on pitches that have bounce but don't jag around and even when they are flat , the ball is bouncing a lot higher than in England and so batsmen cannot simply Bazball their way against pace bowlers.

So their batsmen are forced to develop a good defensive technique and only someone like Travis whose defence is suspect takes the Bazball approach more often than not.

Also you said there was nothing wrong with Root's captaincy but they didn't have the batsmen under his captaincy.

Are you saying they are suddenly producing batsmen who can bat like Khawaja? Khawaja who had a ridiculously low false shot percentage of 8 in his first innings knock.

There is no player in CC who can bat like that against county attacks let alone international attacks.

Against top sides, England have won 10 and lost 3 in the Bazball era. Root went through a time when his team won 1 in 17 tests.

So again, there's no evidence to suggest that this approach is not he best approach for England.

Unless CC is reformed and they play on much better pitches and develop a generation of high quality red ball batsmen, this is comfortably a better approach for them .

I agree with a lot of what you said. As I said in my opening post, Bazball was implemented out of necessity because England is a white ball side and when you have white ball batsmen that you are forced to pick in Test cricket due to lack of options, the best way to utilize them is to ask them to play like white ball cricket.

But the problem with this whole Bazball drama is the gigantic chip on England’s shoulder.

“We want to entertain”
“Draws are bad for the game”
“We don’t care if we lose”
“We are here to save Test cricket”
“This is how Test cricket should be played”

All that is a load of nonsense and no one needs that. England should be honest with themselves and with the world that they have been forced to play this way because of their current resources.

 

[adi_62941]

Yeah because I and others were not watching Test cricket and Ashes before Bazball. The stadiums would have been empty without Bazball like every Ashes before this.

I am not talking about the attendance, its about interest. This stoke gave you something to talk from these boring test matches. English cricket has something to sell now after winning ODI WC and T20 WC. They will win Test Championship soon with this same approach.

 

[muqarrab]

I am frankly tired of England’s “we want to save Test cricket and entertain” narrative. It is a load of nonsense.

Firstly, no one appointed McCullum and Stokes to “save” Test cricket and secondly, Test cricket will not be “saved” with whacky declarations and ODI-style batting.

Furthermore, since when did winning and losing not matter and entertainment become the main objective? This is Test cricket not West End theatre . You are playing for your country. Winning is all that matters. For a supporter, there is no greater form of entertainment than seeing their team win.

I take great offense and I’m frankly bemused by Stokes’ multiple statements over the years where he has insisted that he doesn’t mind losing as long as his team can entertain.

A cricket captain, or a captain of and sports team that makes such statements deserved to be sacked from the job immediately.

The great irony is that the McCullum-inspired Bazball is exactly about the thing that they apparently don’t care about anymore, i.e. results.

The narrative that has been sold is that England want to play an entertainment brand of cricket but the reality is that the Bazball strategy was adopted out of necessity.

Apart from Joe Root and Pope, England do not have proper Test batsmen. Harry Brook is a brilliant talent but at this stage of his career, you cannot expect him to knuckle down and bat for 4 sessions.

All England have is a bunch of white ball players and the best way to play Test cricket with white ball players is to play….white ball cricket.

Harry Brook might not be able to bat 200 balls for 100 runs but he can slog for 75 balls. Bairstow is not a classical Test batsman but he is a brilliant ODI opener and that is exactly how he has been playing Test cricket for the past 12 months.

However, this is not sustainable. Eventually, the novelty factor will wear off and teams will adjust against England’s predictable approach of slogging their way out of trouble.

Australia winning this Ashes would be a good starting point and if they win, they will do it their way, the proper Test cricket way, the way the format has been played for over a century and they it will continue to be played in the future no matter how much the self-appointed saviors of cricket advocate against it.

Australia winning this Ashes will be a victory for Test cricket and will restore the sanctity of the format.

As far as Stokes’ captaincy is is concerned, we have to remember that this Bazball strategy is McCullum’s brainchild. He has always been a risk-taker and he took a risk that paid off for a while but it is nothing that England can sustain for the long-term.

Sooner or later, they will have to go back to traditional Test cricket which would make all these evangelical and preachy statements look ridiculous.

Stokes’ on-field captaincy has been greatly overstated. He has piggybacked McCullum but he has taken some very average decisions on the field.

The declaration was a disaster - Joe Root was in sublime form and Robinson was looking comfortable as well.

England could have easily added another 40-50 runs in no time and that could have been the difference between winning and losing this Test. Batting for another 10-15 overs wouldn’t have killed Test cricket.

He made a similar stupid declaration against Pakistan but Pakistan weren’t good enough to capitalize. Australia were.

After the dismissal of Carey, the English bowlers bowled abysmal lines and Stokes could not do anything to restrict the run flow. It was extremely easy for Cummins and Lyon to score runs.

It was reminiscent of Azhar Ali’s masterclass at Old Trafford 3 years ago when Buttler and Woakes snatched victory from the jaws of defeat and he was caught sleeping.

I challenge Stokes to have the courage to tell the world that he doesn’t care about losing if Australia wins this Ashes. It is easy to make such statements when you are tonking the opposition but it is a whole different ball game after a series defeat.

Good luck to Stokes telling the English media that he doesn’t care if his team loses because his West End theatre team only cares about entertainment. The same people who are waxing lyrical about Bazball will be criticizing England for being reckless.

Australia winning this series will not only be good for Test cricket but it will also teach England a lesson. This Bazball drama is not sustainable and these whacky declarations are not sustainable. White ball players in Test cricket are not sustainable.

Develop orthodox players, make measures declarations, tell your captain and coach to not give sermons on how Test cricket should be played and make it very clear to your captain that entertainment cannot take precedence over winning.

What a horrible take, test cricket has been begging for reinvention, and its not going tob e through gimmicks like numbered shorts. Stokes is an excellent captain who leads by instinct, just like the greates captain of the last 20 yrs, MSD. Bazball under Stokes is the way froward.

This England team person for person is a mediocre team at best, so far they have punched way above their weight, sum is way greater than parts.

 

[Gilly]

England can call their style or type of cricket whatever they want, it makes no difference to anything.

Elevated run rates do have a positive effect but due to the high risk factor it can be really bad when things don't go as planned. Mike Tyson once said everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face.

If England can maintain a run rate above 5 and win consistently then they should do that, its just going to look ugly if it all becomes to inconsistent.

Personally I think your skill level dictates your run rate and spending time forcing the run rate might expose a batsman's ability to maintain that run rate.

Batsmen should worry about scoring runs not run rates, England could mess up a lot of young batsmen if they focus too much on run rates.

 

[Mamoon]

What a horrible take, test cricket has been begging for reinvention, and its not going tob e through gimmicks like numbered shorts. Stokes is an excellent captain who leads by instinct, just like the greates captain of the last 20 yrs, MSD. Bazball under Stokes is the way froward.

This England team person for person is a mediocre team at best, so far they have punched way above their weight, sum is way greater than parts.

Suicidal declarations and slogging will not reinvent Test cricket, it doesn’t solve the fundamental problem with Test cricket, i.e. the masses don’t have the appetite and the time to watch a game of cricket for 5 days. It doesn’t matter what the scoring rate is.

Similarly, those who watch Test cricket will watch it regardless of the run rate. Test cricket will have a limited audience and there is nothing that can be done to change that. It is what it is.

Stokes instincts led him to believe that declaring on day 1 was going to help England win the match. With such horrible instincts, he should be nowhere near the captaincy role.

I wouldn’t associate the word excellence with his captaincy. Not only is he a bad tactician, he is also a terrible leader.

He played IPL with an injured knee fully aware that it could risk his participation in the Ashes and further aggravated his injury, which is exactly what happened.

He is now hobbling on one leg because he put himself above English cricket (for the fourth time since 2021) and didn’t do the right thing which was skipping the IPL to fully recover in time for the Ashes.

 

[shaz619]

[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] your own issues aside, how are you not entertained? you’re not an Australian or England fan, so the extreme emotion is surprising

 

[JaDed]

[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] your own issues aside, how are you not entertained? you’re not an Australian or England fan, so the extreme emotion is surprising

He is a big time English cricket fan from what I can tell.
As a neutral definitely entertained but he is not a neutral.

 

[Mamoon]

[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] your own issues aside, how are you not entertained? you’re not an Australian or England fan, so the extreme emotion is surprising

I love the England team, but I cannot stand this McCullum-Stokes partnership and this whole Bazball nonsense.

I have always been entertained by Ashes. I don’t need to watch suicidal declarations and players like Joe Root forced to reverse scoop fast bowlers and charge spinners.

Every Ashes, especially the ones in England, are always entertaining. The ones in Australia less so because they are usually one-sided.