Australian voters say country is full, support partial ban on Muslim immigration

[Gilly]

yup. That is the definition of a zionist. Somebody who supports a homeland for the Jews is a zionist. Its not something that is abusive but simply a fact.

So you do not support a homeland for the jews?.

 

[Gilly]

Now its interesting you want a curb on Muslim immigrants to Australia. Yet you support a group of people who are far more extreme going to another country. Do you not see the hypocrisy in this?

The biggest Irony of Israel is , Judaism istelf cannot recognise it as a legitimate nation. The Jews are in exile according to their religious texts and can only return to the holy land when their temple is built and when their Messiah returns, both are a little while away.

First you need to re read the thread because you have made some assumptions. There was a poll that said x amount of Australians that would support a partial ban on muslim immigration, I was not part of that poll and only gave reasons why from my experience from living in Australia as to why people might think that way. You have just assumed that I supported this poll.

Second I have always maintained that both the Palestinians and the Israeli's need to change the way they are to come to a peaceful resolution and I can understand why the Israeli's respond to aggression from Palestine as much as I can understand why Palestine respond to Israeli aggression, they both need to take a step back and look for a more peaceful method of settling their differences.

You do not seem to be able to discuss any issues without reverting to calling me a Zionist and therefore wrong regardless of what the issue is.

I don't support war and I think anyone that takes sides is supporting war instead of supporting peace.

 

[KingKhanWC]

First you need to re read the thread because you have made some assumptions. There was a poll that said x amount of Australians that would support a partial ban on muslim immigration, I was not part of that poll and only gave reasons why from my experience from living in Australia as to why people might think that way. You have just assumed that I supported this poll.

Second I have always maintained that both the Palestinians and the Israeli's need to change the way they are to come to a peaceful resolution and I can understand why the Israeli's respond to aggression from Palestine as much as I can understand why Palestine respond to Israeli aggression, they both need to take a step back and look for a more peaceful method of settling their differences.

You do not seem to be able to discuss any issues without reverting to calling me a Zionist and therefore wrong regardless of what the issue is.

I don't support war and I think anyone that takes sides is supporting war instead of supporting peace.

Firstly I would like to thank you for your contributions, regardless if I agree with you or not and it's nothing personal.

I agree with what you have just written but there is only one issue. This is a conflict based where one is much more powerful and has caused much more suffering than the other. We cannot accept equal responsibility on both sides and have to accept who is the bigger aggressor.

Accepting people in ones land is a noble act indeed even though the land benefits from people entering. Australia like Britain has given many people a chance of a better life including my family. But we have to treat people as individuals, once we start to stereotype we lose the moral high ground which I have been guilty of myself.

 

[Gilly]

I think both Israel and Palestine are equally aggressive but Israel are able to defend themselves more.

Instead of looking to support one side in this conflict people should be supporting peace, encouraging both sides to become more peaceful.

 

[Varun]

One thing I got for this thread. Muslims only care about lives of Muslims only. For them Muslims over humans. That's why they struggle. Pakistanis care about the plight of rohingya Muslims but don't give a damn about Christians killed by Muslims in Kenya and Egypt cuz they are non believers.

As evidenced by the endless tears put out when Uyghurs are being discriminated in China, Yemenis being bombed by Saudi Arabia, girls being kidnapped by Boko Haram, or Pakistanis and Afghanistanis being slaughtered by the Taliban.

 

[Moh@n]

As evidenced by the endless tears put out when Uyghurs are being discriminated in China, Yemenis being bombed by Saudi Arabia, girls being kidnapped by Boko Haram, or Pakistanis and Afghanistanis being slaughtered by the Taliban.

And "Terror has no religion" when the terrorists are Muslims, but when a Muslim is beaten up in India over beef, it's terrorism that stems out of radical Hindutva ideology.

 

[James]

I think both Israel and Palestine are equally aggressive but Israel are able to defend themselves more.

Instead of looking to support one side in this conflict people should be supporting peace, encouraging both sides to become more peaceful.

One thing that definitely tips the balance is the availability of resources. Sure it must be a scary experience to hear Palestinian rockets screaming through the air if you are an Israeli civilian, however truth be told the rockets have hardly killed any people over the years and are wildly inaccurate weapons. Compare this to the high class fully loaded military machine that is Israel, backed and supplied by US / UK etc, nuclear armed, and you have a bit of a mismatch.

 

[Gilly]

One thing that definitely tips the balance is the availability of resources. Sure it must be a scary experience to hear Palestinian rockets screaming through the air if you are an Israeli civilian, however truth be told the rockets have hardly killed any people over the years and are wildly inaccurate weapons. Compare this to the high class fully loaded military machine that is Israel, backed and supplied by US / UK etc, nuclear armed, and you have a bit of a mismatch.

Do you think if Palestine no longer fired rockets into Israel and genuinely agreed to find a peaceful resolution that they would get the support from every country.

The only way Israel can justify their occupation is Palestine being aggressive.

 

[humzy]

Do you think if Palestine no longer fired rockets into Israel and genuinely agreed to find a peaceful resolution that they would get the support from every country.

The only way Israel can justify their occupation is Palestine being aggressive.

Do you think that Israel wouldn't aggressively undermine Palestinian passiveness by either creating false flag situations or forcing Palestinians to defend, whereby they can justify further expansion?

If there is billions involved people in power will do anything they can to make sure their set plans get the go ahead.

 

[Gilly]

Do you think that Israel wouldn't aggressively undermine Palestinian passiveness by either creating false flag situations or forcing Palestinians to defend, whereby they can justify further expansion?

If there is billions involved people in power will do anything they can to make sure their set plans get the go ahead.

I looking for ways to stop the killings, if you have better options then I'm willing to listen

 

[humzy]

I looking for ways to stop the killings, if you have better options then I'm willing to listen

I have no answer unfortunately, also I have a very pessimistic view on politics and ideology.

 

[the Great Khan]

This is absurd. Is supporting a homeland for muslims being islamist?Is supporting homeland for hindus hinduist or whatever?

Cmon now TGK.This is absurd.

I can support jews rights to a homeland but i dont support their land grab or human rights abuses or use of disproportionate force.That makes me a zionist?certainly not.

sorry my friend but that is their own definition. Its not a definition created by Muslims or anyone else. Also until very very recently it was not seen as an abusive term, merely a definition of someone with a certain ideology.

 

[the Great Khan]

So you do not support a homeland for the jews?.

not at the expense of the original inhabitants. I support a homeland for the Jews to live alongside their arab cousins and other religions. I do not believe in the Zionist project that essentially believes that the Jews have a God given right to the land and must rule it and if required displace anybody who isnt a Jew. I profoundly disagree with that.

 

[James]

The Law of Return is particularly abysmal, in that a European / American Jew for example, either through birth or conversion but one whom essentially has zero connection to either Israel or Palestine, gets an instant Israeli passport! - whilst homegrown Palestinians are regularly being turfed out.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

And "Terror has no religion" when the terrorists are Muslims, but when a Muslim is beaten up in India over beef, it's terrorism that stems out of radical Hindutva ideology.

No one mentioned radical Hindutva ideology until you and brother Varun piped up.

 

[the Great Khan]

First you need to re read the thread because you have made some assumptions. There was a poll that said x amount of Australians that would support a partial ban on muslim immigration, I was not part of that poll and only gave reasons why from my experience from living in Australia as to why people might think that way. You have just assumed that I supported this poll.

Second I have always maintained that both the Palestinians and the Israeli's need to change the way they are to come to a peaceful resolution and I can understand why the Israeli's respond to aggression from Palestine as much as I can understand why Palestine respond to Israeli aggression, they both need to take a step back and look for a more peaceful method of settling their differences.

And the above paragraph is the real problem we have here. You see you've been conditioned to think there is some equality in this situation. There is none. We have one of the most sophisticated militaries on the planet, arresting children as young as 8, killing with impunity, breaking international law, and at the same time proclaiming their victimhood. It is an unequal scenario. You cannot sit on the fence on this one. The few rockets fired at Isreal are so useless they may aswell be firecrackers. If you can tell me that an F16 armed with precision guided munitions like the AGM-maverick to name but a few is the same as a homemade "rocket" made from salvaged carparts in some medieval style blacksmiths workshop, then you need to read a book.

You cannot sit on the fence. The Palestinians are protected by the UN charter, the Israelis are not. The only peace in the holy land is one in which everyone has the same rights. End of. A two state solution is not possible when you have one side that wants to dominate the other. I suggest you go onto youtube and type "Abby martin in isreal" and tell me whether you think both sides are equal or not.


You do not seem to be able to discuss any issues without reverting to calling me a Zionist and therefore wrong regardless of what the issue is.

If you support a homeland for the Jewish people in which they are the an artificial majority and in which the original inhabitants are second class citizens, then yes you are a Zionist and should be proud to say you are.

I don't support war and I think anyone that takes sides is supporting war instead of supporting peace.

If you dont support the right of the oppressed to fight for their rights what does that make you? yes it is right to not support suicide bombings which are abhorront , but according to the UN charter resistance can be supported. If australia were invaded by the Chinese would you support the resistance?

regards

 

[Gilly]

The discussion has seriously gone off a tangent so I don't know where to begin. Look, there is no denying that we Muslims generally find it hard to assimilate and integrate compared to the other communities. We certainly inflexible in various aspects of life.

However, integration does not mean compromising your values and beliefs in order to be viewed favorably by the host nation. A muslim does not have to party and wear vulgar clothes just so that the Westerners do not feel threatened, and there is absolutely no justification for bigotry which is becoming increasingly prevalent in the West.

Nonetheless, successful integration is something that needs compromise on both sides. An outright ban is not the solution, it is simply a cop-out. Immigrants needs to be more respectful and considerate (which doesn't mean compromising their values and beliefs) because immigrating and settling down in another country is not a right but a privilege. Every sovereign state in the world has the right to impose bans on immigrants, but is that helpful? certainly not.

Immigrants have made huge contributions in all fields and the Western powers would not be where they are today if it wasn't for their immigrant communities. You look at the U.S. and the shocking ignorance of their general white population makes you wonder how it has managed to become the leader of the free world.

By banning immigrants altogether, you are going to miss out on the good apples that are going to outweigh the bad ones by a considerable margin.

It seems like Zionism has also creeped into the discourse for some reason. There is no denying that the Jewish people deserve a homeland of their own and they as a community faced considerable discrimination for centuries. However, the formation of Israel has been very controversial and inhumane because the Western powers used Israel as a lapdog to exercise control over the Middle East, and their involvement in the Arab world between the late 1800s up to the 1960s is the main driving force behind the instability in that region today.

You have made some statements, indicating that the clothes westerners wear are vulgar, they have become increasingly bigoted and the white people are shockingly ignorant.

Thats what you think of white western people, but you want them to show you some respect.

I hope you think about the irony.

 

[Gilly]

And the above paragraph is the real problem we have here. You see you've been conditioned to think there is some equality in this situation. There is none. We have one of the most sophisticated militaries on the planet, arresting children as young as 8, killing with impunity, breaking international law, and at the same time proclaiming their victimhood.

You are right about one thing TGK, I have been conditioned and that was due to the Palestinians. You see I'm old enough to remember the Munich massacre and I remember the hundreds of plane hijackings where they would go through the plane looking for Israeli's to execute. I remember the bombs going off in coffee shops blowing women and children into little bits. I agree there is no equality in war, but whatever Israeli's have done will not wipe out what the Palestinians have done, they both are responsible for what they do and niether can take the high moral ground.

 

[KingKhanWC]

You are right about one thing TGK, I have been conditioned and that was due to the Palestinians. You see I'm old enough to remember the Munich massacre and I remember the hundreds of plane hijackings where they would go through the plane looking for Israeli's to execute. I remember the bombs going off in coffee shops blowing women and children into little bits. I agree there is no equality in war, but whatever Israeli's have done will not wipe out what the Palestinians have done, they both are responsible for what they do and niether can take the high moral ground.

The difference is Palestinians were forced to retaliate against aggressors. If I was to bully you long enough, sooner or later you would retaliate with any means you are capable of.

 

[Gilly]

The difference is Palestinians were forced to retaliate against aggressors. If I was to bully you long enough, sooner or later you would retaliate with any means you are capable of.

You seem to close your eyes to one side of the story, please read up on the PLO and research the history of why and how the conflict started from 1920. I'm not defending the Israeli's but i'm not closing my eyes to the actions of the Palestinians either.

 

[Varun]

No one mentioned radical Hindutva ideology until you and brother Varun piped up.

I suggest you get a medical visa and hop on the next plane to India to get your eyes checked.

As evidenced by the endless tears put out when Uyghurs are being discriminated in China, Yemenis being bombed by Saudi Arabia, girls being kidnapped by Boko Haram, or Pakistanis and Afghanistanis being slaughtered by the Taliban.

 

[Moh@n]

No one mentioned radical Hindutva ideology until you and brother Varun piped up.

Search your own posts on this forum containing the word Hindutva. You will be enlightened.

 

[Mamoon]

You have made some statements, indicating that the clothes westerners wear are vulgar, they have become increasingly bigoted and the white people are shockingly ignorant.

Thats what you think of white western people, but you want them to show you some respect.

I hope you think about the irony.

That is not my personal belief. I am simply stating that if the Muslims living in Western countries do not like how the Western folks dress and live, they are under no obligation to imitate them because of 'integration'. Similarly, a Westerner living in Pakistan or India does not have to wear Pakistani and Indian clothes. That is something very personal and should not be used to evaluate how integrated an individual is and isn't.

I don't know about Australians because I have never been there, but I have seen White Americans from close quarters and I have no qualms in stating that their general white population is horribly ignorant. Besides, one does not even need to observe them from close quarters to know. A quick look at the man residing in the White House says everything that needs to be said about the masses in the U.S.

It is funny how you have ignored the other statements where I clearly mentioned that immigrants needs to be more respectful and considerate (which doesn't mean compromising their values and beliefs) because immigrating and settling down in another country is not a right but a privilege.

A classic example of selective reading and confirmation bias.

Respect is a two way street. Immigrants have to respect the host nation because they have accommodated them and have given them a better life. Respect does not mean imitating them in the way of life; it means that need to be more considerate and less critical of the Western values.

On the other hand, the locals need to respect the fact that the immigrants make big contributions in all fields and that they have their own beliefs and values that need to be respected. That is what multiculturalism is all about, not leaving your culture in your home country which you seem to be advocating.

There is nothing ironic in what I said. I made a balanced post from the point of view of both sides, but as usual, you only chose to read what you wanted to read based on your predispositions.

 

[Gilly]

It is funny how you have ignored the other statements where I clearly mentioned that immigrants needs to be more respectful and considerate (which doesn't mean compromising their values and beliefs) because immigrating and settling down in another country is not a right but a privilege.

But when you talked about white people you used derogatory words like vulgar, ignorant and bigoted, and you call me biased.

But overall Australians are expected to take in refugees from islamic countries like Pakistan (i.e. Fahwad Ahmed) due to him being religiously persecuted and then expected to take in immigrants from islamic countries that want to continue to practise their islam in Australia. Its ironic that that we are expected to give refugees a safe haven in Australia at the same time we are supposed to allow the immigrants to practise the same religion that persecutes these refugees.

 

[Raja Sab]

they have every right to pass any law be it hurt people from other culture, religion. If you're not welcome then why go there

 

[KingKhanWC]

You seem to close your eyes to one side of the story, please read up on the PLO and research the history of why and how the conflict started from 1920. I'm not defending the Israeli's but i'm not closing my eyes to the actions of the Palestinians either.

I know the history but why dont you explain your version briefly?

 

[Stewie]

Somewhere in Australia, the aboriginals are thining “we should have done the same to the invading Europeans all those years ago, before they killed most of us off”

 

[the Great Khan]

You are right about one thing TGK, I have been conditioned and that was due to the Palestinians. You see I'm old enough to remember the Munich massacre and I remember the hundreds of plane hijackings where they would go through the plane looking for Israeli's to execute. I remember the bombs going off in coffee shops blowing women and children into little bits. I agree there is no equality in war, but whatever Israeli's have done will not wipe out what the Palestinians have done, they both are responsible for what they do and niether can take the high moral ground.

Thats an interesting point of view. Munich was abhorrant so were the suicide bombings. But they all pale into insignificance when compared to what the Israelis have done and continue to do today. Once the Palestinians signed the peace agreement they made a commitment but we now know it was a swerve. They hoodwinked everyone and laughed all the way to the bank.

My problem is you need to go against your programming and look at the situation and whether it is in the best interests of the world community to let the Palestinians suffer.