Australian voters say country is full, support partial ban on Muslim immigration

[cricketjoshila]

lol. What logic? You have showing nothing so far.

The Australian government felt the need to invade and help occupy a Muslim nation when no Muslim from this nation ever attacked anyone in Australia. Even so almost all Muslims in Australia are law abiding citizens.

Why Muslims Aussie citizens be affected by Australia going to war in another place againist a Muslim country?

 

[KingKhanWC]

Why Muslims Aussie citizens be affected by Australia going to war in another place againist a Muslim country?

Because most Muslims feel the pain of other Muslims.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Because most Muslims feel the pain of other Muslims.

Humans are supposed to feel pain of other humans, except in exceptional cases.Like when your country is at war againist another.

 

[Abdullah719]

There are plenty more examples, like the 15yo muslim (suppported by at least four others from his mosque) boy who shot a police accountant in the head and then there is the cleric that supported the killing of homosexuals.

The former incident is another example of a criminal act so it's not really representative of the Muslim-immigrant population in Australia is it? Unless such criminal acts are exclusively done by Muslim-immigrants?

The cleric you're referring to, is it Farrokh Sekaleshfar? I believe he is British so I am not quite sure how that relates to Muslim immigrants in Australia. Let me know if I've got the wrong person here.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Humans are supposed to feel pain of other humans, except in exceptional cases.Like when your country is at war againist another.

Sure but many dont. Most not all Muslims will feel the pain of other Muslims regardless of their race or nationality, it's just how it is.

 

[Gilly]

The former incident is another example of a criminal act so it's not really representative of the Muslim-immigrant population in Australia is it? Unless such criminal acts are exclusively done by Muslim-immigrants?

The cleric you're referring to, is it Farrokh Sekaleshfar? I believe he is British so I am not quite sure how that relates to Muslim immigrants in Australia. Let me know if I've got the wrong person here.

You are not getting the what the picture represents, these acts are all criminal in nature but the root cause is religion. Australia does not have any religion that is continually related to acts of crime other than Islam.

Murder, hate speech, disrespecting Authority just to name a few, all criminal acts committed in the name of Islam. No other religion is tied in so closely with criminal acts like this. Yes there are criminal acts committed by other religious people but they do not do it in the name of their religion. Islam is connected to these acts by the criminals themselves.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Sure but many dont just like many Indians dont feel the pain of Kashmiris. Most not all Muslims will feel the pain of other Muslims regardless of their race or nationality, it's just how it is.

Again humans can feel the pain of other humans.That has nothing to do with Aussie Muslims following the laws of their country.They are the citizens of Australia and following their laws,whats so special about this?

 

[Gilly]

The cleric you're referring to, is it Farrokh Sekaleshfar? I believe he is British so I am not quite sure how that relates to Muslim immigrants in Australia. Let me know if I've got the wrong person here.

The muslim community in Australia invited him to come to Australia to speak but he was forced out, but the question is why would they want him to come to Australia and spread his views to muslims here.

 

[90MPH]

You are not getting the what the picture represents, these acts are all criminal in nature but the root cause is religion. Australia does not have any religion that is continually related to acts of crime other than Islam.

Murder, hate speech, disrespecting Authority just to name a few, all criminal acts committed in the name of Islam. No other religion is tied in so closely with criminal acts like this. Yes there are criminal acts committed by other religious people but they do not do it in the name of their religion. Islam is connected to these acts by the criminals themselves.

So can you give me breakdown of these figures ??

For example murder in Australia - what is the percentage these are being perpetrated by Muslims or in the name of religion ?

 

[Abdullah719]

You are not getting the what the picture represents, these acts are all criminal in nature but the root cause is religion. Australia does not have any religion that is continually related to acts of crime other than Islam.

Murder, hate speech, disrespecting Authority just to name a few, all criminal acts committed in the name of Islam. No other religion is tied in so closely with criminal acts like this. Yes there are criminal acts committed by other religious people but they do not do it in the name of their religion. Islam is connected to these acts by the criminals themselves.

To be more precise, the root cause of these acts is misinterpretation of religion - at least that's what majority of Muslims would say and I think it's more accurate to call it that.

Moving on from that, how exactly does this 'partial ban' mentioned in OP work? Who is banned and who isn't? And what's the justification behind it?

The incidents you've mentioned so far, i.e. a shooting, two incidents of people refusing to stand for judges, a statement from a religious leader a decade ago and a statement by a foreign religious leader don't have me convinced. Is there a larger sample size or some statistics?

Anyway, apologies if these questions come across as tedious and obvious. I must confess I hardly know anything about Australia or Muslims in Australia, but I found the conversation interesting.

 

[Gilly]

So can you give me breakdown of these figures ??

For example murder in Australia - what is the percentage these are being perpetrated by Muslims or in the name of religion ?

If you want the figures then find them yourself, I not your personal assistant.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Again humans can feel the pain of other humans.That has nothing to do with Aussie Muslims following the laws of their country.They are the citizens of Australia and following their laws,whats so special about this?

Come again? Try to articulate yourself a little better. I have no idea what you are saying.

 

[Abdullah719]

The muslim community in Australia invited him to come to Australia to speak but he was forced out, but the question is why would they want him to come to Australia and spread his views to muslims here.

Was it well-known that he had made such statements before he was invited? Most of the articles I've come across about it seem to be written after his visit to and subsequent exit from Australia.

 

[90MPH]

If you want the figures then find them yourself, I not your personal assistant.

So you have no answer or idea.

Basically you are talking nonsense about the generalisations you have made about one community but when push comes to shove to back them up with facts and figures you don't want to don't have any answers.

Sad.

 

[Gilly]

To be more precise, the root cause of these acts is misinterpretation of religion - at least that's what majority of Muslims would say and I think it's more accurate to call it that.

Moving on from that, how exactly does this 'partial ban' mentioned in OP work? Who is banned and who isn't? And what's the justification behind it?

The incidents you've mentioned so far, i.e. a shooting, two incidents of people refusing to stand for judges, a statement from a religious leader a decade ago and a statement by a foreign religious leader don't have me convinced. Is there a larger sample size or some statistics?

Anyway, apologies if these questions come across as tedious and obvious. I must confess I hardly know anything about Australia or Muslims in Australia, but I found the conversation interesting.

You must understand non muslims dont have the same passion for islam and the misinterpretation of islam has been bandied around for a long time. For the protection of islam there should be transparent measures in place to ensure that interpretations of the Koran are published as a finished document to prevent extremists from hijacking the meanings.

As for the partial ban I think you would need to get clarification from whoever held the poll, I was not one of the people polled so I dont know what questions were asked.

I dont have any statistics but can tell you that in Australia these events stay with the public for a long time because there is not that many that happen. No other religion in Australia seem to get involved in controversies.

 

[Gilly]

So you have no answer or idea.

Basically you are talking nonsense about the generalisations you have made about one community but when push comes to shove to back them up with facts and figures you don't want to don't have any answers.

Sad.

What are you talking about, are you in the wrong thread or something?

 

[Gilly]

Was it well-known that he had made such statements before he was invited? Most of the articles I've come across about it seem to be written after his visit to and subsequent exit from Australia.

Exactly, even after he made these comments he was invited to come to Australia by Muslims to speak here. Wouldent you call that an endorsement by the muslim community for someone who advocated the killing of homosexuals.

 

[90MPH]

What are you talking about, are you in the wrong thread or something?

You know exactly what I am talking about.

Looks like you have no answer so now trying to spin out of it by saying "what are you taking about". Sure.

 

[90MPH]

Exactly, even after he made these comments he was invited to come to Australia by Muslims to speak here. Wouldent you call that an endorsement by the muslim community for someone who advocated the killing of homosexuals.

Yes all the Muslims are guilty of this.

Maybe they should be deported or thrown in the outback like the aborigines.

 

[humzy]

I'm not having a go at you here but in general i really hate this argument

Pakistan is not secular, it's in the name Islamic Republic, now how well that is being carried out is seperate debate, but we dont attest to be something we arent.

The Burka issue itself is very overblown, a small percentage of a small minority wear it, yes it is confronting for those not used to it but its negligable issue peddled by the like of Pauline and Christensen to get more votes.


The whole point of Multiculturalism is that you bring your culture with you

When people talk about assilimation they dont realise that what they are refering to is the French model which in theory is " anyone can be French but you must be French."

I see where you are coming from, but just because one country has adopted a moderate form of social policy and another hasn't doesn't mean you can't use the same example for both countries as this is a moral issue.

 

[humzy]

To be more precise, the root cause of these acts is misinterpretation of religion - at least that's what majority of Muslims would say and I think it's more accurate to call it that.

Moving on from that, how exactly does this 'partial ban' mentioned in OP work? Who is banned and who isn't? And what's the justification behind it?

The incidents you've mentioned so far, i.e. a shooting, two incidents of people refusing to stand for judges, a statement from a religious leader a decade ago and a statement by a foreign religious leader don't have me convinced. Is there a larger sample size or some statistics?

Anyway, apologies if these questions come across as tedious and obvious. I must confess I hardly know anything about Australia or Muslims in Australia, but I found the conversation interesting.

I live in Sydney and grew up in a muslim environment so I can speak from personal experience, whether you take that with a grain of salt is up to you.

I am not muslim bashing, nor am I giving racists a fair go. All I am saying is that at the moment Muslims find it the hardest to integrate into this society and I have to ask myself is that mainly due to the religious theology they have been brainwashed with, whether it is a bad interpretation or not is not in my field of expertise.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Why Muslims Aussie citizens be affected by Australia going to war in another place againist a Muslim country?

I think the best way to explain this would be to give an example you might understand as it is closer to home. Many people of Indian descent gave rock star welcome to India's Prime Minister Modi on his visit to Australia, despite no longer actually being Indian citizens. Modi himself is popular amongst Hindus worldwide for his strident Hindu nationalist ideology.

 

[James]

This is largely a debate to be left for the people of Australia IMO, one thing I did find amusing though is the idea of Australia being “full”, outside of a few busy cities there is hardly anything there lol and the country is bloody huge.

 

[cricketjoshila]

I think the best way to explain this would be to give an example you might understand as it is closer to home. Many people of Indian descent gave rock star welcome to India's Prime Minister Modi on his visit to Australia, despite no longer actually being Indian citizens. Modi himself is popular amongst Hindus worldwide for his strident Hindu nationalist ideology.

Many of those Indians hold OCIs or PIOs so they are connected to India. Modi is popular among NRIs because his schemes are NRI friendly and his image of a efficient administrator.

You will get the difference when IK replaces Nawaz Sharif.

 

[pakistanigoneaussie]

That's another common trait from muslims and in particular Pakistanis, they generalise and complain that others generalise. Its fine for posters on this forum to call Australians racist and call them convicts but lose their rag when anyone generalises muslims.

did I call you a racist or convits ?

Your hypocrisy is stunning? Where have I generalised here?

So its now wrong to call you out when you use unqualifed blanket statements on all Muslim's in Australia despite them coming varying ethnic and cultural blackgrounds?

 

[Ellipsism]

Thats 200 or 300 year old history.The Australians today are The Australians.

Yes every country has the right to stop immigration if they want.

It's not 200 to 300 year old history as you claim, in fact Aboriginals were only given the same privileges as Australians a couple of decades ago.

 

[Ellipsism]

You must understand non muslims dont have the same passion for islam and the misinterpretation of islam has been bandied around for a long time. For the protection of islam there should be transparent measures in place to ensure that interpretations of the Koran are published as a finished document to prevent extremists from hijacking the meanings.

As for the partial ban I think you would need to get clarification from whoever held the poll, I was not one of the people polled so I dont know what questions were asked.

I dont have any statistics but can tell you that in Australia these events stay with the public for a long time because there is not that many that happen. No other religion in Australia seem to get involved in controversies.

Cardinal George Pell- ring a bell?

 

[Gilly]

Cardinal George Pell- ring a bell?

Perhaps you should read my posts BEFORE commenting on them.

. Yes there are criminal acts committed by other religious people but they do not do it in the name of their religion. Islam is connected to these acts by the criminals themselves.

 

[the Great Khan]

I live in Sydney and grew up in a muslim environment so I can speak from personal experience, whether you take that with a grain of salt is up to you.

I am not muslim bashing, nor am I giving racists a fair go. All I am saying is that at the moment Muslims find it the hardest to integrate into this society and I have to ask myself is that mainly due to the religious theology they have been brainwashed with, whether it is a bad interpretation or not is not in my field of expertise.

what do you mean by integration. Because when I was growing up integration meant something different. Now it means something different. The fact is the white non Muslim community is simply in denial. They thought they could go around the world raping and pillaging and sucking other countries dry. At the same time they thought the sun wouldnt ever set on their empire. Well it did and it has. We live in a world that is repivoting back to the time before the europeans discovered gold in central america.

The world has always been multicultural and unipolar. It is unnatural for it to have one single super power or one single empire ruling all. Multiculturarism is the natural order of things and all civilised people would understand that fact.

 

[the Great Khan]

So you have no answer or idea.

Basically you are talking nonsense about the generalisations you have made about one community but when push comes to shove to back them up with facts and figures you don't want to don't have any answers.

Sad.

thats how these right wing nut jobs work. Use generalisations and then any excuse to "have a go at Muslims".. He's a repeat offender on this board.

 

[Gilly]

This is largely a debate to be left for the people of Australia IMO, one thing I did find amusing though is the idea of Australia being “full”, outside of a few busy cities there is hardly anything there lol and the country is bloody huge.

I thought you would be a bit more switched on and know physically the country is not full, it relates to infrastructure, availability of water, ability to grow food, encroachment on the environment, sustainability and cost of growth.

Experts believe that Australia's optimal population is 15 million.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Many of those Indians hold OCIs or PIOs so they are connected to India. Modi is popular among NRIs because his schemes are NRI friendly and his image of a efficient administrator.

You will get the difference when IK replaces Nawaz Sharif.

I was talking about the many who don't hold OCIs or PIOs but still venerate Modi for his Hindutva ideology, despite often holding citizenship abroad. Often this will include 2nd and 3rd generation citizens as well. It's not even a major point, I was just trying to help you understand where you get loyalty to people of similar background despite being resident somewhere else. We can use Indian cricket fans in Britain as an example instead if that makes it easier to process.

 

[Gilly]

what do you mean by integration. Because when I was growing up integration meant something different. Now it means something different. The fact is the white non Muslim community is simply in denial. They thought they could go around the world raping and pillaging and sucking other countries dry. At the same time they thought the sun wouldnt ever set on their empire. Well it did and it has. We live in a world that is repivoting back to the time before the europeans discovered gold in central america.

The world has always been multicultural and unipolar. It is unnatural for it to have one single super power or one single empire ruling all. Multiculturarism is the natural order of things and all civilised people would understand that fact.

How do you relate that to muslim countries, or are you saying they are the multicultral countries. I dont see a country like Pakistan as multicultral and then see you describe that as un-natural.

 

[Gilly]

thats how these right wing nut jobs work. Use generalisations and then any excuse to "have a go at Muslims".. He's a repeat offender on this board.

Brilliant, you dont generalise do you.

The fact is the white non Muslim community is simply in denial. They thought they could go around the world raping and pillaging and sucking other countries dry.

 

[the Great Khan]

Brilliant, you dont generalise do you.

your a zionist and anti Muslim. I'm not generalising. I'm being very direct with you.

 

[Gilly]

your a zionist and anti Muslim. I'm not generalising. I'm being very direct with you.

I have to be so you can then push your extremist views. Its a strawman arguement, you label me as zionist and anti muslim so you can then be a victim and express your twisted view.

 

[the Great Khan]

I have to be so you can then push your extremist views. Its a strawman arguement, you label me as zionist and anti muslim so you can then be a victim and express your twisted view.

yes I'm an extremist because I espouse views that are contrary to your right wing clap trap. Thanks for proving my point. I mean call out a defender of oppression and your automatically called an extremist. Your posts are getting worse. They are full of stereotypical generalisations that smack of uncivilised thinking.

 

[Gilly]

yes I'm an extremist because I espouse views that are contrary to your right wing clap trap. Thanks for proving my point. I mean call out a defender of oppression and your automatically called an extremist. Your posts are getting worse. They are full of stereotypical generalisations that smack of uncivilised thinking.

It happens when I talk to someone who thrives on hate for whites.

 

[Marshland]

Fully agree with the results of this poll.

We try to be accommodating to Muslims, welcoming them in with open arms over the years but what do we get in return? They give us no choice.

 

[the Great Khan]

It happens when I talk to someone who thrives on hate for whites.

lol..what a ridiculous post..anybody who calls you out on your idiocy is automatically termed an extremist "who hates whites". Who's playing the victim now?what a world we live in where we have a group of people who have caused untold suffering over the last hundred years now claims to be the victim. You simply have to face the relaity of the situation and accept it.

This is the world we live in. A world with many thousands of languages and cultures. Monoculturalism is an uncivilised concept that stunts the development of humanity.

 

[the Great Khan]

Fully agree with the results of this poll.

We try to be accommodating to Muslims, welcoming them in with open arms over the years but what do we get in return? They give us no choice.

well then kick them out then? what are you waiting for? If they are causing you soo many problems how about setting up some camps in some nearby isleland's and then transporting aussie muslims over there?

 

[Marshland]

yes I'm an extremist because I espouse views that are contrary to your right wing clap trap. Thanks for proving my point. I mean call out a defender of oppression and your automatically called an extremist. Your posts are getting worse. They are full of stereotypical generalisations that smack of uncivilised thinking.

You openly label him a Zionist and anti-Muslim and then cry about being generalized? Go figure.

There's no end to the emotional drama with you peeps. If only that was all there is of course.

 

[Gilly]

lol..what a ridiculous post..anybody who calls you out on your idiocy is automatically termed an extremist "who hates whites". Who's playing the victim now?what a world we live in where we have a group of people who have caused untold suffering over the last hundred years now claims to be the victim. You simply have to face the relaity of the situation and accept it.

This is the world we live in. A world with many thousands of languages and cultures. Monoculturalism is an uncivilised concept that stunts the development of humanity.

No you are the only one I have called out for hating on whites, when you post things like I have caused untold suffering over the last hundred years I really do wonder about your state of mind.

 

[the Great Khan]

You openly label him a Zionist and anti-Muslim and then cry about being generalized? Go figure.

There's no end to the emotional drama with you peeps. If only that was all there is of course.

he's an admitted zionist my friend. This isnt the first time i've debated this with him. And its not a generalisation. He supports Isreal over the palestinians. That means he's a zionist.

thanks for your racially tinged comment at the end .."you peeps"..

 

[the Great Khan]

No you are the only one I have called out for hating on whites, when you post things like I have caused untold suffering over the last hundred years I really do wonder about your state of mind.

I said a group of people. That does not neccessarily mean white people. But your soo blinded by your victimhood you cant even read and understand posts anymore. I pity you and those that share your views.

 

[Gilly]

he's an admitted zionist my friend. This isnt the first time i've debated this with him. And its not a generalisation. He supports Isreal over the palestinians. That means he's a zionist.

thanks for your racially tinged comment at the end .."you peeps"..

I support neither Palestine or Israel and believe both need to change their ways, but to an extremist you support palestine or you are a zionist.

Peeps is now racist, just wow.

 

[the Great Khan]

I support neither Palestine or Israel and believe both need to change their ways, but to an extremist you support palestine or you are a zionist.

Peeps is now racist, just wow.

nice little backtrack. And thats my point. You cannot as a human being turn a blind eye to the suffering of those that are oppressed. Its just that simple. You don't have to have a political view about it. You just have to have some compassion. But of course if someone points that out he's an extremist. Its a cop out to say "oh I dont support either side".

As for my comment your regarding "peeps" you once again miss the nuance of my response. But someone who has little knowledge of equality and diversity would of course make that comment. i am not surprised.

 

[humzy]

what do you mean by integration. Because when I was growing up integration meant something different. Now it means something different. The fact is the white non Muslim community is simply in denial. They thought they could go around the world raping and pillaging and sucking other countries dry. At the same time they thought the sun wouldnt ever set on their empire. Well it did and it has. We live in a world that is repivoting back to the time before the europeans discovered gold in central america.

The world has always been multicultural and unipolar. It is unnatural for it to have one single super power or one single empire ruling all. Multiculturarism is the natural order of things and all civilised people would understand that fact.

Integration meaning having the ability to socialise with the local population.

Its hard to have this debate as i feel i may fall into a trap of generalisation. But i do see muslims having the most difficult time in integrating compared to other cultures that have come to Australia.

My reasoning for why this is occurring is two fold.
1. Religious ideological influence that puts a negative light on non muslims whether it is directly or indirectly, subconsciously or consciously. I grew up with this attitude so trust me i know.
2. Media espousing anti muslim rhetoric which further isolates muslims from others.

And when i say integration into the local culture i am referring to all cultures that reside in Australia not just white anglo saxons, that is not what Australia is so please do not be mistaken.

 

[Gilly]

nice little backtrack. And thats my point. You cannot as a human being turn a blind eye to the suffering of those that are oppressed. Its just that simple. You don't have to have a political view about it. You just have to have some compassion. But of course if someone points that out he's an extremist. Its a cop out to say "oh I dont support either side".

As for my comment your regarding "peeps" you once again miss the nuance of my response. But someone who has little knowledge of equality and diversity would of course make that comment. i am not surprised.

Never see you supporting the oppressed people of West Papua, you turn a blind eye to that. Of course you will now prove me wrong by bringing up all your posts where you have supported West Papua.

 

[the Great Khan]

Integration meaning having the ability to socialise with the local population.

thats not what integration is. Socialising is a choice, integration isnt. You can be very integrated but anti-social so please dont mix the two things up. Just because someone doesnt go to the pub doesnt mean they are not integrated.

Its hard to have this debate as i feel i may fall into a trap of generalisation. But i do see muslims having the most difficult time in integrating compared to other cultures that have come to Australia.

Again if you mean socialising then your right.We do find it difficult to socialise in a pro-alchoholic culture. However that doesnt mean Muslims are not integrated.

My reasoning for why this is occurring is two fold.
1. Religious ideological influence that puts a negative light on non muslims whether it is directly or indirectly, subconsciously or consciously. I grew up with this attitude so trust me i know.

perhaps but that just hinders socialising not integration.

2. Media espousing anti muslim rhetoric which further isolates muslims from others.

That is a more serious problem because it prevents Muslims from climbing up the soci-economic ladder which aids integration.

And when i say integration into the local culture i am referring to all cultures that reside in Australia not just white anglo saxons, that is not what Australia is so please do not be mistaken.

I dont know what its like in australia but in the UK there are many communities who dont "socialise" with each other but are as British as the next man.

I think your post has actually highlighted an issue that is tugging at the nub of the problem. People see integration as the same as socialisation which inmho is not the same thing. It is further problematic because nobody from the majority community can ever really define integration as they change the definition whenever they feel like it.

 

[the Great Khan]

Never see you supporting the oppressed people of West Papua, you turn a blind eye to that. Of course you will now prove me wrong by bringing up all your posts where you have supported West Papua.

I am completely ignorant of the West Papua issue but perhaps you can enlighten me. Therefore I do not feel informed enough to comment on the situation. However if the people are being oppressed in West Papua then I am with those that are oppressed by default.

Unlike you I have no problem stating my position instead of sitting on the fence which is a cowardly position. inmho.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Fully agree with the results of this poll.

We try to be accommodating to Muslims, welcoming them in with open arms over the years but what do we get in return? They give us no choice.

To be more accurate, a few bad apples gave you no choice.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I think this discussion is turning into a personal slanging match between Gilly and TGK. Might be better to stick to the broader topic and get it back on track.

 

[James]

I thought you would be a bit more switched on and know physically the country is not full, it relates to infrastructure, availability of water, ability to grow food, encroachment on the environment, sustainability and cost of growth.

Experts believe that Australia's optimal population is 15 million.

So Australia already has 9 million more people living within it than it should? Really?

 

[90MPH]

Fully agree with the results of this poll.

We try to be accommodating to Muslims, welcoming them in with open arms over the years but what do we get in return? They give us no choice.

Nice generalisation, again. Last sentence was the exact one Donald Trump used before he got elected, justifying his travel ban.

In any case if you want to ban a whole set of people then lobby your government to do so. It's exactly what these Isis nut cases want, the ones we have condemned *** umpteen timesZ

 

[Pakistanian]

Australia's a 2nd world country anyways, ban muslims and pull your poorly trained soldiers out of Muslim countries, stop trying to be relevant lol. I swear they try so hard to be American.

 

[IMMY69]

No you are the only one I have called out for hating on whites, when you post things like I have caused untold suffering over the last hundred years I really do wonder about your state of mind.

Perhaps not but I do recall you attacking me for being a racist against white people on some other thread and that after me posting just one sentence.

I do find some insecurity amongst indians. Are you by any chance an Indian immigrant?

 

[Raf Pragmatic]

Again, the same theory applies here. Deport all Aussies in Madagascar. Wonderbar.

 

[Raf Pragmatic]

Australia's a 2nd world country anyways, ban muslims and pull your poorly trained soldiers out of Muslim countries, stop trying to be relevant lol. I swear they try so hard to be American.

As if, make Aussie pirates great again!

 

[cricketjoshila]

I was talking about the many who don't hold OCIs or PIOs but still venerate Modi for his Hindutva ideology, despite often holding citizenship abroad. Often this will include 2nd and 3rd generation citizens as well. It's not even a major point, I was just trying to help you understand where you get loyalty to people of similar background despite being resident somewhere else. We can use Indian cricket fans in Britain as an example instead if that makes it easier to process.

Citizenship of another country doesnot mean that person cant hold PIO or OCI.I wonder how many non Indian origin hindus are there.

This cricket fan analogy is faulty.In many countries expats support their country of origin.

May be you should read the comments of KKWC again.According to him Aussie Muslims obey law and order in Australia despite Australia attacking some Muslim majority country somewhere as if they are doing some kind of favour.Obeying law and order is a duty of everyone, else you go to jail.Secondly disrupting law and order in your own country for something that is happening in middle east is very poor decision.One it affects peoples lives in a country you live in.Two it gives that whole immigrant community a bad name.Three you get punished.four it makes no difference to that war.

 

[cricketjoshila]

he's an admitted zionist my friend. This isnt the first time i've debated this with him. And its not a generalisation. He supports Isreal over the palestinians. That means he's a zionist.

thanks for your racially tinged comment at the end .."you peeps"..

Anyone supporting existence of Israel is a zionist?

 

[humzy]

I think your post has actually highlighted an issue that is tugging at the nub of the problem. People see integration as the same as socialisation which inmho is not the same thing. It is further problematic because nobody from the majority community can ever really define integration as they change the definition whenever they feel like it.

I would equate what I mean more towards assimilation, which is a more understandable word, rather then integration, which can have multiple connotations.

"Social scientists rely on four primary benchmarks to assess immigrant assimilation: socioeconomic status, geographic distribution, second language attainment, and intermarriage."

3 of these are pretty much an issue for a fair amount of muslims in Australia.

 

[humzy]

Australia's a 2nd world country anyways, ban muslims and pull your poorly trained soldiers out of Muslim countries, stop trying to be relevant lol. I swear they try so hard to be American.

How old are you?

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Citizenship of another country doesnot mean that person cant hold PIO or OCI.I wonder how many non Indian origin hindus are there.

This cricket fan analogy is faulty.In many countries expats support their country of origin.

May be you should read the comments of KKWC again.According to him Aussie Muslims obey law and order in Australia despite Australia attacking some Muslim majority country somewhere as if they are doing some kind of favour.Obeying law and order is a duty of everyone, else you go to jail.Secondly disrupting law and order in your own country for something that is happening in middle east is very poor decision.One it affects peoples lives in a country you live in.Two it gives that whole immigrant community a bad name.Three you get punished.four it makes no difference to that war.

I don't really understand any of these points raised. Where is the disagreement?

 

[KingKhanWC]

Citizenship of another country doesnot mean that person cant hold PIO or OCI.I wonder how many non Indian origin hindus are there.

This cricket fan analogy is faulty.In many countries expats support their country of origin.

May be you should read the comments of KKWC again.According to him Aussie Muslims obey law and order in Australia despite Australia attacking some Muslim majority country somewhere as if they are doing some kind of favour.Obeying law and order is a duty of everyone, else you go to jail.Secondly disrupting law and order in your own country for something that is happening in middle east is very poor decision.One it affects peoples lives in a country you live in.Two it gives that whole immigrant community a bad name.Three you get punished.four it makes no difference to that war.

Please dont quote me when you have no clue what I was saying. Get on with your own points.

Btw Indians in Australia are probably more despised than Muslims, they are still getting beat up.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Anyone supporting existence of Israel is a zionist?

By definition is a Zionist is anyone who supports the right of Israel to exist in the holy land. What else do you think it means?

 

[humzy]

Please dont quote me when you have no clue what I was saying. Get on with your own points.

Btw Indians in Australia are probably more despised than Muslims, they are still getting beat up.

Well you don't see muslims get beat up because they are a ballsy bunch and give it as hard as they get it haha.

 

[Moh@n]

To be more precise, the root cause of these acts is misinterpretation of religion - at least that's what majority of Muslims would say and I think it's more accurate to call it that.

The problem though is, the number of people who apparently misinterpret Islam is very large. The world needs a mechanism to counter this threat.

 

[Convict]

I honestly think that immigration numbers across the board should be cut because we are reaching a point where it is no longer as beneficial as in the past but as long as the immigrants that come work hard and are loyal to Australia I don't care where they are.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Please dont quote me when you have no clue what I was saying. Get on with your own points.

Btw Indians in Australia are probably more despised than Muslims, they are still getting beat up.

I know exactly what you meant.It fits well with what you ordinarily say.

Dont worry about Indians, they can take care of themselves.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Well you don't see muslims get beat up because they are a ballsy bunch and give it as hard as they get it haha.

May be Australians are trying to stop violent immigrants from getting into their territory.

 

[cricketjoshila]

By definition is a Zionist is anyone who supports the right of Israel to exist in the holy land. What else do you think it means?

Right of Israel to exist is supported by majority of the countries of the world.

 

[Mamoon]

The discussion has seriously gone off a tangent so I don't know where to begin. Look, there is no denying that we Muslims generally find it hard to assimilate and integrate compared to the other communities. We certainly inflexible in various aspects of life.

However, integration does not mean compromising your values and beliefs in order to be viewed favorably by the host nation. A muslim does not have to party and wear vulgar clothes just so that the Westerners do not feel threatened, and there is absolutely no justification for bigotry which is becoming increasingly prevalent in the West.

Nonetheless, successful integration is something that needs compromise on both sides. An outright ban is not the solution, it is simply a cop-out. Immigrants needs to be more respectful and considerate (which doesn't mean compromising their values and beliefs) because immigrating and settling down in another country is not a right but a privilege. Every sovereign state in the world has the right to impose bans on immigrants, but is that helpful? certainly not.

Immigrants have made huge contributions in all fields and the Western powers would not be where they are today if it wasn't for their immigrant communities. You look at the U.S. and the shocking ignorance of their general white population makes you wonder how it has managed to become the leader of the free world.

By banning immigrants altogether, you are going to miss out on the good apples that are going to outweigh the bad ones by a considerable margin.

It seems like Zionism has also creeped into the discourse for some reason. There is no denying that the Jewish people deserve a homeland of their own and they as a community faced considerable discrimination for centuries. However, the formation of Israel has been very controversial and inhumane because the Western powers used Israel as a lapdog to exercise control over the Middle East, and their involvement in the Arab world between the late 1800s up to the 1960s is the main driving force behind the instability in that region today.

 

[IMMY69]

The discussion has seriously gone off a tangent so I don't know where to begin. Look, there is no denying that we Muslims generally find it hard to assimilate and integrate compared to the other communities. We certainly inflexible in various aspects of life.

However, integration does not mean compromising your values and beliefs in order to be viewed favorably by the host nation. A muslim does not have to party and wear vulgar clothes just so that the Westerners do not feel threatened, and there is absolutely no justification for bigotry which is becoming increasingly prevalent in the West.

Nonetheless, successful integration is something that needs compromise on both sides. An outright ban is not the solution, it is simply a cop-out. Immigrants needs to be more respectful and considerate (which doesn't mean compromising their values and beliefs) because immigrating and settling down in another country is not a right but a privilege. Every sovereign state in the world has the right to impose bans on immigrants, but is that helpful? certainly not.

Immigrants have made huge contributions in all fields and the Western powers would not be where they are today if it wasn't for their immigrant communities. You look at the U.S. and the shocking ignorance of their general white population makes you wonder how it has managed to become the leader of the free world.

By banning immigrants altogether, you are going to miss out on the good apples that are going to outweigh the bad ones by a considerable margin.

It seems like Zionism has also creeped into the discourse for some reason. There is no denying that the Jewish people deserve a homeland of their own and they as a community faced considerable discrimination for centuries. However, the formation of Israel has been very controversial and inhumane because the Western powers used Israel as a lapdog to exercise control over the Middle East, and their involvement in the Arab world between the late 1800s up to the 1960s is the main driving force behind the instability in that region today.

Now this is an excellent post!!
Totally agree with everything you said.

 

[the Great Khan]

Anyone supporting existence of Israel is a zionist?

yup. That is the definition of a zionist. Somebody who supports a homeland for the Jews is a zionist. Its not something that is abusive but simply a fact.

 

[cricketjoshila]

yup. That is the definition of a zionist. Somebody who supports a homeland for the Jews is a zionist. Its not something that is abusive but simply a fact.

This is absurd. Is supporting a homeland for muslims being islamist?Is supporting homeland for hindus hinduist or whatever?

Cmon now TGK.This is absurd.

I can support jews rights to a homeland but i dont support their land grab or human rights abuses or use of disproportionate force.That makes me a zionist?certainly not.

 

[GBK_Fan]

This is absurd. Is supporting a homeland for muslims being islamist?Is supporting homeland for hindus hinduist or whatever?

Cmon now TGK.This is absurd.

I can support jews rights to a homeland but i dont support their land grab or human rights abuses or use of disproportionate force.That makes me a zionist?certainly not.

Look up the text book definition of Zionist. It simply means the right for Israel to exist. It has been taken over to include the horrible atrocities being committed, by the media. Very similar to how the meaning of Jihad has been twisted out

 

[Gilly]

By definition is a Zionist is anyone who supports the right of Israel to exist in the holy land. What else do you think it means?

So I guess you are a Zionist then KK

 

[rahulrulezz]

One thing I got for this thread. Muslims only care about lives of Muslims only. For them Muslims over humans. That's why they struggle. Pakistanis care about the plight of rohingya Muslims but don't give a damn about Christians killed by Muslims in Kenya and Egypt cuz they are non believers.

Why Muslims struggle is- they think world from perspective of MUSLIMS VS NON MUSLIMS. But want non Muslims to treat them equally. This is why they struggle to integrate.

With regards to attack on Indians in Australia, that's usually done in an iffy ghetos areas by iffy people. It's an internal issue of Australia or let's just say most countries. Why do you think Australians didn't vote for banning Indians. You think those goons asked those indian students whether they were Indians or Pakistanis. When you roam around in ghetto areas anyone where in the world, there are good chances of you getting in trouble. Indian students to save money tend to stay in ghetto areas.

Regardless, Indians tend to well integrate in different countries, and that is the reason why Indians have the highest capital, highest education in almost every country they immigrate.

 

[KingKhanWC]

So I guess you are a Zionist then KK

Not at all.

I mentioned the holy land for a reason. To be a Zionist you have accept 2 things imo.


1. The right of a people to declare a homeland based on what is written in a religous book.
2. The right of a people to occupy and take the land of another people.

This is what Israel is. It is a manufactured state given by one people to another people taking it away from a 3rd people.

Now its interesting you want a curb on Muslim immigrants to Australia. Yet you support a group of people who are far more extreme going to another country. Do you not see the hypocrisy in this?

The biggest Irony of Israel is , Judaism istelf cannot recognise it as a legitimate nation. The Jews are in exile according to their religious texts and can only return to the holy land when their temple is built and when their Messiah returns, both are a little while away.