Babar Azam versus Lokesh Rahul

[sensible-indian-fan]

Yes Kuldeep is useless and him bowling is giving ladoos to Latham. Good logic.
Sodhi, Southee and Bennett bowling is not ladoos but Rahul's world class batting but opposition doing better is them getting laddoo bowling don't make sense son.

Well you can check the economy rates lol.

Only difference is that Southee and Bennett had to bowl in the death so their economies took a hit.

Kuldeep had a worse economy in the middle overs and that changed the game.

Plus Shardul's over towards the end sealed it.

Plus no Saini who was our MOS last ODI series and instead we hav Thakur who NZ should have destroyed in the T20 series itself.

The loss was well deserved tbh.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

What isolated case beta.
All I said you can't really judge and rate Rahul innings and say he's better and Babar can't play such SR and Rahul better because he can hit more sixes. So theirs so many who can hit more sixes like Pollard, Maxwell so are they better then Rahul.
Today innings on flat pitch, small boundaries vs New Zealand reserve bowlers. A ground and pitch where Latham batted at a higher strike rate who struggles to even bat 90SR in ODIs and only 100SR in T20s. What does that show about the pitch and ground. Oh he also hit less sixes then Rahul so what does that show.

Woosh.

Do you realize you are proving my point. )

---

By the way, i didnt compare Rahul to Babar and say he was better due to this innings lol.

 

[KingKhan12]

Woosh.

Do you realize you are proving my point. )

---

By the way, i didnt compare Rahul to Babar and say he was better due to this innings lol.

You didn't but another poster was on about six hitting ability of Rahul so that's why Rahul is a ke gaye above so my first post was for that poster till you came in and start debating.
OK so my comment is proving your point.

Read my comment once again if that proves your point then I don't know why you debating for then we both agree that we can't judge and rate today innings to Babar or anyone to be honest when it was on flat track with small boundaries against reserve New Zealand bowlers and on same pitch a test specialist scored higher strike rate shows how easy it was and that too with less sixes which shows six hitting is not the only way to have high strike rate in a innings.

Enjoy now BYE

 

[Pakhs]

Woosh.

Do you realize you are proving my point. )

---

By the way, i didnt compare Rahul to Babar and say he was better due to this innings lol.

Rahul is proving to be a handy lower order batsman - And shouldn't be compared with top order batsman. This thread now should be closed and re-opened with Rahul compared to somone who bats 5/6.

 

[zain7077]

For Kohli vs De Villiers Mamoon says all De Villiers could do more is hit more sixes and “circus shots” but for Rahul it becomes “dynamism” “impact” etc

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Rahul is proving to be a handy lower order batsman - And shouldn't be compared with top order batsman. This thread now should be closed and re-opened with Rahul compared to somone who bats 5/6.

Huh?

Have you watched Rahul in recent times bro?

Cos post WC, he scored all his runs opening except 2 occasions where he was asked to bat at 5.

He did well at 5 but its not his actual position.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Read my comment once again if that proves your point then I don't know why you debating for

My point - One off case cannot be used to make any claim.

Where it applies - Latham may have scored fast today but he usually doesn't do so. It's a one off case (more so aided by the fact that India had 2 bowlers who were JUST awful today). That does not diminish Rahul's knock in any way ESPECIALLY considering Rahul gave Starc the same treatment just a month or two back playing a similar knock.

You didn't but another poster was on about six hitting ability of Rahul so that's why Rahul is a ke gaye above so my first post was for that poster till you came in and start debating. OK so my comment is proving your point.

My post quoted yours where you referred Rahul is good but today even Latham/Taylor did XYZ.

You said:

Funny to see how hyped up some people getting here. No doubt Rahul has been doing very well of late but hyping this innings on a flat track with small boundaries where Taylor and Latham are batting with a higher strike rate then Rahul so does that mean them both are more dynamic especially Latham. You guys make no sense in your logic.

This is a bit of a ridiculous logic and it's not really relevant for the following reasons:

1. Rahul played fast. If anything Iyer just scored at run a ball EVEN after final acceleration. Rahul maintained 120 -130 SR. His final SR was 137 and Latham's was 140. Almost similar.

2. If you watched the game, Rahul didn't get many deliveries at the death. Jadhav hogged the strike. When Rahul got a few he smashed them or took singles. Last over he could have done a bit more.

3. It's a one off case. Opposition batsmen can do better than you but they are not facing the same bowlers or situation. So just cos they scored at the same rate doesn't automatically mean this knock is not a big deal. This was a GREAT knock. Just that it was overshadowed by some great batting and absolutely poor bowling. Praise both..that's fine. But don't call this hype cos this Rahul's knock was really amazing and he didn't even break a sweat for it. He scored at 137 without even going into the 5th gear.

Read my comment once again if that proves your point then I don't know why you debating for then we both agree that we can't judge and rate today innings to Babar or anyone to be honest when it was on flat track with small boundaries against reserve New Zealand bowlers and on same pitch a test specialist scored higher strike rate shows how easy it was and that too with less sixes which shows six hitting is not the only way to have high strike rate in a innings.

Babar has achieved WAYYY more than Rahul in ODis and that's a fact.

But you don't need to validate that fact by diminishing this knock considering Rahul has smashed even Aussie pacers on bigger Indian grounds.

His T20 average is 46 @ 146 playing all across the globe.

His recent ODI average (post WC) is 69 @ 109 playing Wi, Aus and now NZ. Yes, early days but the signs are amazing. No point talking about small grounds, easy bowlers, etc....Rahul has smashed many bowlers for his LOI stats.

 

[Pakhs]

Huh?

Have you watched Rahul in recent times bro?

Cos post WC, he scored all his runs opening except 2 occasions where he was asked to bat at 5.

He did well at 5 but its not his actual position.

He batted higher up the order for the last few years and clearly wasn't considered good enough except T20 and now been asked to move down the order where he has played a couple of good innings so we have to see how he goes there.

There is no comparison left with Babar who is a well established top order batsman in international cricket.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

He batted higher up the order for the last few years and clearly wasn't considered good enough except T20 and now been asked to move down the order where he has played a couple of good innings so we have to see how he goes there.

There is no comparison left with Babar who is a well established top order batsman in international cricket.

Nope. Wrong on all counts.

1. He opened back in 2016 when he debuted and did well against Zim. Then he opened against Eng for a 3 match ODI series. Back in 2016-17.

2. Later on, from that time till mid WC, he played from number 3 to number 6. This is where he was scratchy.

3. Then got to open since the Pak game in the WC (Dhawan injury) and stayed as opener except for 3 innings.

His stats batting at 1,2 and 3.

46.57 @ 81

21 games out of the 30 he has played.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...orderby=default;template=results;type=batting

 

[Mamoon]

For Kohli vs De Villiers Mamoon says all De Villiers could do more is hit more sixes and “circus shots” but for Rahul it becomes “dynamism” “impact” etc

Because de Villiers’ career is over and he achieved very little in international cricket compared to Kohli.

Kohli’s records and achievements dwarfs that of de Villiers.

De Villiers no doubt is a world class player and a South African legend, but his standing in the game is far lower than Kohli’s.

Babar so far has achieved nothing which I believe that Rahul cannot replicate. Rahul is already ahead of him in Test cricket and T20I cricket.

When both retire and if Babar ends up achieving more than Rahul and leaves a bigger legacy, I will have no hesitation in considering a Babar a better batsman even though he is not as versatile as Kohli.

 

[Pakhs]

Nope. Wrong on all counts.

1. He opened back in 2016 when he debuted and did well against Zim. Then he opened against Eng for a 3 match ODI series. Back in 2016-17.

2. Later on, from that time till mid WC, he played from number 3 to number 6. This is where he was scratchy.

3. Then got to open since the Pak game in the WC (Dhawan injury) and stayed as opener except for 3 innings.

His stats batting at 1,2 and 3.

46.57 @ 81

21 games out of the 30 he has played.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...orderby=default;template=results;type=batting

What is the problem? Why are you insisting on something he is not? Even kholi has said we are now looking at him to get used to No.5 position with keeping. So this thread is not required anymore. His stats are not as good as Babar either in anycase he is still trying to establish himself as all format international.

 

[Mamoon]

Because de Villiers’ career is over and he achieved very little in international cricket compared to Kohli.

Kohli’s records and achievements dwarfs that of de Villiers.

De Villiers no doubt is a world class player and a South African legend, but his standing in the game is far lower than Kohli’s.

Babar so far has achieved nothing which I believe that Rahul cannot replicate. Rahul is already ahead of him in Test cricket and T20I cricket.

When both retire and if Babar ends up achieving more than Rahul and leaves a bigger legacy, I will have no hesitation in considering a Babar a better batsman even though he is not as versatile as Kohli.

Correction: as versatile as Rahul*

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

What is the problem? Why are you insisting on something he is not? Even kholi has said we are now looking at him to get used to No.5 position with keeping. So this thread is not required anymore. His stats are not as good as Babar either in anycase he is still trying to establish himself as all format international.

What is my problem?

What am I insisting?

Bhai...you got your facts wrong.

I corrected them.

Not sure why you are doubling down on it.

Rahul has always been a top order batsman. Vast majority of his innings even in ODI was in the opening slot. Just cos he bats at number 5 now doesn't mean comparisons will stop.

As for Kohli, that guy's word means nothing. He will praise one player to the moon only to drop him the next game. If openers don't do well or get injured, Rahul will go back to opening.

 

[Mamoon]

What is the problem? Why are you insisting on something he is not? Even kholi has said we are now looking at him to get used to No.5 position with keeping. So this thread is not required anymore. His stats are not as good as Babar either in anycase he is still trying to establish himself as all format international.

Because India is loaded with top-order batsmen and he is too good a player to be left out.

Rohit, Kohli, Dhawan, Shaw, Gill, Agarwal and in the future Jaiswal etc.

All of these players are top-order batsmen, but Rahul has the range to bat at number 5 as well. It is unfortunate for Rahul and a waste of his potential, but India has no choice because it has an abundance of top-order batsmen.

 

[Pakhs]

What is my problem?

What am I insisting?

Bhai...you got your facts wrong.

I corrected them.

Not sure why you are doubling down on it.

Rahul has always been a top order batsman. Vast majority of his innings even in ODI was in the opening slot. Just cos he bats at number 5 now doesn't mean comparisons will stop.

As for Kohli, that guy's word means nothing. He will praise one player to the moon only to drop him the next game. If openers don't do well or get injured, Rahul will go back to opening.

Okay so Kholi is wrong and you are right - Rahul stats in anycase are not as good as Babar overall - and plus now he bats at 5 and keeps so should be compared to keeper batsmen etc.

 

[Pakhs]

Because India is loaded with top-order batsmen and he is too good a player to be left out.

Rohit, Kohli, Dhawan, Shaw, Gill, Agarwal and in the future Jaiswal etc.

All of these players are top-order batsmen, but Rahul has the range to bat at number 5 as well. It is unfortunate for Rahul and a waste of his potential, but India has no choice because it has an abundance of top-order batsmen.

Because ifs and buts dont work in real life - If he is as good as you say he would have nailed down top order spot but he could not. Now time to compare him with lower order keepers etc.

 

[Mamoon]

Okay so Kholi is wrong and you are right - Rahul stats in anycase are not as good as Babar overall - and plus now he bats at 5 and keeps so should be compared to keeper batsmen etc.

He is a temporary keeper until the incredibly talented Pant gets his game together again. He will keep for India in all formats for 15 years.

 

[iPakistani]

Because de Villiers’ career is over and he achieved very little in international cricket compared to Kohli.

Kohli’s records and achievements dwarfs that of de Villiers.

De Villiers no doubt is a world class player and a South African legend, but his standing in the game is far lower than Kohli’s.

Babar so far has achieved nothing which I believe that Rahul cannot replicate. Rahul is already ahead of him in Test cricket and T20I cricket.

When both retire and if Babar ends up achieving more than Rahul and leaves a bigger legacy, I will have no hesitation in considering a Babar a better batsman even though he is not as versatile as Kohli.

Rahul is ahead of Babar in tests in what sense?

Rahul in SENA:
Average: 22.43.

Babar in SENA (one less match played):
Average 37.31.

And you and I both know it is much more difficult for a player in a terrible team like Pakistan's to come out and bat when everyone else in the team is losing their wickets.

So how can you say Rahul is a better test batsman?

 

[Pakhs]

He is a temporary keeper until the incredibly talented Pant gets his game together again. He will keep for India in all formats for 15 years.

Okay nobody knows the future - for now he is the keeper and kholi said so who is undisputed king of Indian cricket at the moment.

 

[Mamoon]

Because ifs and buts dont work in real life - If he is as good as you say he would have nailed down top order spot but he could not. Now time to compare him with lower order keepers etc.

What people lack is perspective.

Rahul has only played 30 ODIs since his debut in 2016.

During this period, India have played 89 ODIs.

Out of the 30 ODIs that he has played, only 21 of them were in the top-order (1,2,3).

His record in these 21 ODIs is not the best against the top attacks, but he still averages 47, which is excellent for a young batsman during his first 21 ODIs.

With the same record, had he played for Pakistan, Sri Lanka or Bangladesh, he would be hyped to the moon.

Furthermore, “nailing down” a top-order position when you have Rohit, Dhawan and Kohli is the not the same as nailing down a top-order position when you are competing with Shehzad, Hafeez, Jamshed, Sarfraz etc.

Babar was immediately established as a mainstay at 3 because he was the only quality batsman in the team.

If he was in the same team as Rohit, Dhawan and Kohli, how many matches would he have played in the top 3?

Similarly if Rahul was in Pakistan, he would now be our main opener in all formats and our fans would now be hyping him up as an ATG in the making.

People refusing to acknowledge the fact that establishing yourself in the Indian top-order is completely different to establishing yourself in the Pakistani top-order.

 

[Mamoon]

Okay nobody knows the future - for now he is the keeper and kholi said so who is undisputed king of Indian cricket at the moment.

Somethings are obvious. Kohli is not going to say in public that Rahul is only a temporary fix behind the stumps, but everyone including Rahul knows it.

 

[Pakhs]

What people lack is perspective.

Rahul has only played 30 ODIs since his debut in 2016.

During this period, India have played 89 ODIs.

Out of the 30 ODIs that he has played, only 21 of them were in the top-order (1,2,3).

His record in these 21 ODIs is not the best against the top attacks, but he still averages 47, which is excellent for a young batsman during his first 21 ODIs.

With the same record, had he played for Pakistan, Sri Lanka or Bangladesh, he would be hyped to the moon.

Furthermore, “nailing down” a top-order position when you have Rohit, Dhawan and Kohli is the not the same as nailing down a top-order position when you are competing with Shehzad, Hafeez, Jamshed, Sarfraz etc.

Babar was immediately established as a mainstay at 3 because he was the only quality batsman in the team.

If he was in the same team as Rohit, Dhawan and Kohli, how many matches would he have played in the top 3?

Similarly if Rahul was in Pakistan, he would now be our main opener in all formats and our fans would now be hyping him up as an ATG in the making.

People refusing to acknowledge the fact that establishing yourself in the Indian top-order is completely different to establishing yourself in the Pakistani top-order.

I can do a same thread to say if Babar was Indian he would be better than Sachin and Kholi combined and he is weighed down due to playing in poor batting line up.

But since if and buts dont work and its your specialty I will leave it.

 

[Pakhs]

Somethings are obvious. Kohli is not going to say in public that Rahul is only a temporary fix behind the stumps, but everyone including Rahul knows it.

Yet he said publicly we want Rahul to get used to bat at 5 and keep? Lol at you - I see having a bad day again.

 

[Mamoon]

Rahul is ahead of Babar in tests in what sense?

Rahul in SENA:
Average: 22.43.

Babar in SENA (one less match played):
Average 37.31.

And you and I both know it is much more difficult for a player in a terrible team like Pakistan's to come out and bat when everyone else in the team is losing their wickets.

So how can you say Rahul is a better test batsman?

Rahul’s numbers are dented because of his poor run in 2018.

His 199 against England in 2016, hundred in Australia in 2014 and the performances against Australia at home on difficult pitches in 2016 are better than whatever Babar has produced in Test cricket.

The vast majority of runs that Babar has scored in Test cricket so far have been soft, inconsequential runs.

Both will have excellent Test careers but I believe Rahul will be better than him.

 

[iPakistani]

What people lack is perspective.

Rahul has only played 30 ODIs since his debut in 2016.

During this period, India have played 89 ODIs.

Out of the 30 ODIs that he has played, only 21 of them were in the top-order (1,2,3).

His record in these 21 ODIs is not the best against the top attacks, but he still averages 47, which is excellent for a young batsman during his first 21 ODIs.

With the same record, had he played for Pakistan, Sri Lanka or Bangladesh, he would be hyped to the moon.

Furthermore, “nailing down” a top-order position when you have Rohit, Dhawan and Kohli is the not the same as nailing down a top-order position when you are competing with Shehzad, Hafeez, Jamshed, Sarfraz etc.

Babar was immediately established as a mainstay at 3 because he was the only quality batsman in the team.

If he was in the same team as Rohit, Dhawan and Kohli, how many matches would he have played in the top 3?

Similarly if Rahul was in Pakistan, he would now be our main opener in all formats and our fans would now be hyping him up as an ATG in the making.

People refusing to acknowledge the fact that establishing yourself in the Indian top-order is completely different to establishing yourself in the Pakistani top-order.

Just like establishing yourself and performing in the Pakistan team whilst surrounded by bums is not an easy achievement lol. You need to also admit that it is harder for Babar to score runs than Rahul because of the people he is playing with.

 

[iPakistani]

Rahul’s numbers are dented because of his poor run in 2018.

His 199 against England in 2016, hundred in Australia in 2014 and the performances against Australia at home on difficult pitches in 2016 are better than whatever Babar has produced in Test cricket.

The vast majority of runs that Babar has scored in Test cricket so far have been soft, inconsequential runs.

Both will have excellent Test careers but I believe Rahul will be better than him.

I agree, Babars numbers are also dented because of his poor start to test cricket. Still he is far ahead, with a higher average overall and also a higher average in SENA.

 

[Mamoon]

I can do a same thread to say if Babar was Indian he would be better than Sachin and Kholi combined and he is weighed down due to playing in poor batting line up.

But since if and buts dont work and its your specialty I will leave it.

You can do that but that would be illogical. The only drawbacks of playing in the top-order for a weak team is that you get less value for your runs, but so far Babar has directly contributed to defeats.

When he scores, we win but when we lose, he is one of the main reasons why we don’t win. There are very few, if any, instances of Babar scoring big runs in defeats.

Babar has benefited from competing against weak batsmen. It has allowed him to establish himself at an early age.

 

[Mamoon]

Yet he said publicly we want Rahul to get used to bat at 5 and keep? Lol at you - I see having a bad day again.

He has to get used to 5 because that will be his long-term position because of the abundance of top-order batsmen who cannot play like him at 5.

You can believe whatever Kohli said for public consumption as far as keeping is concerned, but I guarantee you that Pant will be back as a keeper very shortly.

You don’t have to believe but time will clear everything.

 

[iPakistani]

You can do that but that would be illogical. The only drawbacks of playing in the top-order for a weak team is that you get less value for your runs, but so far Babar has directly contributed to defeats.

When he scores, we win but when we lose, he is one of the main reasons why we don’t win. There are very few, if any, instances of Babar scoring big runs in defeats.

Babar has benefited from competing against weak batsmen. It has allowed him to establish himself at an early age.

I'm not talking about chasing or whatever. I'm talking about when Imam Ul Haq or Fakhar is on strike and they fill the over with dot balls which means Babar has to take risks to get the team runs. Or when our batting order is collapsing and he has to adjust his game to stop the collapse.

It is much different from when Rahul comes in and on the other end it is Rohit, Kohli, Iyer all who don't play many dot balls at all hence removing the pressure off the non- striker.

 

[Mamoon]

Just like establishing yourself and performing in the Pakistan team whilst surrounded by bums is not an easy achievement lol. You need to also admit that it is harder for Babar to score runs than Rahul because of the people he is playing with.

No. Batting in the top 3 in a weak lineup on flat pitches gives you opportunities to score runs.

Also, please list the number of ODIs where Babar scored big but we lost the match because of other batsmen. Usually when we lose, Babar is one of the main reasons for our loss.

 

[Mamoon]

I'm not talking about chasing or whatever. I'm talking about when Imam Ul Haq or Fakhar is on strike and they fill the over with dot balls which means Babar has to take risks to get the team runs. Or when our batting order is collapsing and he has to adjust his game to stop the collapse.

It is much different from when Rahul comes in and on the other end it is Rohit, Kohli, Iyer all who don't play many dot balls at all hence removing the pressure off the non- striker.

Empty excuses that don’t mean anything. Reminds me of people blaming Misbah for the failures of other batsmen around him.

Babar is not being hampered. He is a world class batsman and doing as well as he can at this stage of his career.

He is lucky to be playing for a weak team because he wouldn’t have had the chance to bat in the top 3 at this stage of his career in India, Australia and England.

 

[Pakhs]

You can do that but that would be illogical. The only drawbacks of playing in the top-order for a weak team is that you get less value for your runs, but so far Babar has directly contributed to defeats.

When he scores, we win but when we lose, he is one of the main reasons why we don’t win. There are very few, if any, instances of Babar scoring big runs in defeats.

Babar has benefited from competing against weak batsmen. It has allowed him to establish himself at an early age.

I think it illogical to say a good player in good team will perform worst than a good player in bad team. If the player is good and surrounded with great player he will thrive as opposition cant just concentrate on him plus he will have loads of confidence playing in such a team.

But again if and but are your specialty - as for now Rahul is nothing more than number 5 batsman / keeper.

 

[Mamoon]

I agree, Babars numbers are also dented because of his poor start to test cricket. Still he is far ahead, with a higher average overall and also a higher average in SENA.

Yes, which is why I don’t want to hold his poor start against him and neither do I want to hold Rahul’s slump against him, because both are far better than that.

However, based on their good performances so far, Rahul has produced better knocks in Test cricket.

 

[Mamoon]

I think it illogical to say a good player in good team will perform worst than a good player in bad team. If the player is good and surrounded with great player he will thrive as opposition cant just concentrate on him plus he will have loads of confidence playing in such a team.

But again if and but are your specialty - as for now Rahul is nothing more than number 5 batsman / keeper.

That depends on the batting position. It’s much more difficult to perform when you are batting behind Kohli, Rohit and Dhawan. It is very hard to standout and they usually don’t leave you with much time to make an impact.

If Babar was India, he would be batting at 4 and wouldn’t have had more than 3 centuries by now.

Same Rahul would be opening for Pakistan and sitting pretty on top of 15+ ODI hundreds by now.

You can call it ifs, buts and would, but that is my view.

 

[Darkrai]

So are people going to do bhangra here everytime Rahul scores a 50? Talk about desperate.

 

[jnaveen1980]

So are people going to do bhangra here everytime Rahul scores a 50? Talk about desperate.

Time for a new thread KL Rahul vs Virat Kohli we can close this one.

 

[Darkrai]

Time for a new thread KL Rahul vs Virat Kohli we can close this one.

But Rahul is cearly better than Kohli because Kohli can't do what Rahul can but Rahul can do what Kohli can.

 

[jnaveen1980]

But Rahul is cearly better than Kohli because Kohli can't do what Rahul can but Rahul can do what Kohli can.

That is why i say enw thread. This thread has become stale.

 

[JaDed]

I think we should all wait for Wt20, according to fans , both are in form so its easy to judge their..

 

[Pakhs]

I think we should all wait for Wt20, according to fans , both are in form so its easy to judge their..

T20 is no judge in my opinion - its a fun format and at the very best I just consider team performance.

 

[JaDed]

I think we should all wait for Wt20, according to fans , both are in form so its easy to judge their..

there* (in the tournament)

T20 is no judge in my opinion - its a fun format and at the very best I just consider team performance.

True.. but Wt20 brings in pressure, eventhough its fun its good to see how they handle it.

 

[Slog]

Rahul has a higher gear than Babar but that does not make him better than Babar

 

[Hasan123]

Some people deserve the humiliation.

 

[Titan24]

I think we should all wait for Wt20, according to fans , both are in form so its easy to judge their..

Didnt WC19 already decide who is better? Also thread is not only about T20s.

 

[Ronaldo7]

Some people deserve the humiliation.

Correct.

Hyped an 80 as if it was a 180 and ended up losing the match

 

[Rana]

So are people going to do bhangra here everytime Rahul scores a 50? Talk about desperate.

There is an agenda to disapprove Babar as an elite South Asian batsman by a select or selected posters.

There is a man who claimed Shubman Gill is already better than all Asian batsmen (before he played international cricket). Don’t expect anything sensible

 

[sharmaji]

I feel that Babar is highly underestimated here.

Imagine that you are playing in a team that never had a disciplined batting culture, is deprived of home advantage for a decade, you are surrounded by mediocre and old batsmen, the entire team is relying on you to last as long as possible at the crease, and now you are a captain who will be severely criticised by each and everyone (especially the bitter former players) for every loss, the weight of the entire country on your shoulders - it is not easy to be flamboyant. It is an enormous pressure on his young shoulders. To understand what Babar is going through, just remember Sachin. Even back then, Sachin would be unfairly compared with Ponting who played in a team full of match-winners. Babar, if he had the luxury of batting in a team with Kohli, Rohit and Dhawan, do you think he would not play more flamboyantly as Rahul does once in a while? There is not a single player of his class in Pakistan team that Babar can share his responsibilities and expectations with. And the coaching staff and management is equally average which doesn't know how to support and nurture world-class athletes. What more can he do than consistently score runs and be amongst the top 5 batsmen in the world across all formats for 2-3 years now?

I don't know if I can say this (I have never been to Pakistan in my life), but the public there seems a bit more emotional than the Indian public. It is reflected in various commentators on youtube and tv channels, how they behave when the team looses and abuse and mistreat their own players. India was very similar not too long ago but in the past 5-6 years, things have changed here. I hope that happens in Pakistan too, with the growth int he popularity of PSL, maybe.

I feel for Babar. He is doing the best he can. When was the last time we saw a technically perfect world-class batsman from Pakistan? Today Babar is renowned across the cricketing world and is hailed as one of the potential batting greats. It is an incredible feat if you consider the history and culture of Pakistan. You can't compare Babar's situation with anyone else in the world. No other player (and definitely not KL Rahul) plays with so much pressure that Babar is bearing. Let him play without these constant comparisons and expectations to not just be his best, but score more than everyone else at a SR higher than everyone else. It is absolutely unfair.

Also, Rahul is charting his own journey. He is on a comeback, I think now he understands his strengths and weaknesses and is trying to make the best of the opportunities he is getting. Let's see how long this phase lasts. For those Indian posters here saying KL is better than Babar, that is your opinion and I respect it, but I hope that you consider the situation Babar is dealing with, before you pass your judgments. Forget the hypothetical words like ceiling, higher-gear, impact for a moment and just put yourself in Babar's shoes and understand how lonely it must be for him in a team full of average players and yet he continues to keep scoring runs as well as he can.

 

[Rana]

I feel that Babar is highly underestimated here.

Imagine that you are playing in a team that never had a disciplined batting culture, is deprived of home advantage for a decade, you are surrounded by mediocre and old batsmen, the entire team is relying on you to last as long as possible at the crease, and now you are a captain who will be severely criticised by each and everyone (especially the bitter former players) for every loss, the weight of the entire country on your shoulders - it is not easy to be flamboyant. It is an enormous pressure on his young shoulders. To understand what Babar is going through, just remember Sachin. Even back then, Sachin would be unfairly compared with Ponting who played in a team full of match-winners. Babar, if he had the luxury of batting in a team with Kohli, Rohit and Dhawan, do you think he would not play more flamboyantly as Rahul does once in a while? There is not a single player of his class in Pakistan team that Babar can share his responsibilities and expectations with. And the coaching staff and management is equally average which doesn't know how to support and nurture world-class athletes. What more can he do than consistently score runs and be amongst the top 5 batsmen in the world across all formats for 2-3 years now?

I don't know if I can say this (I have never been to Pakistan in my life), but the public there seems a bit more emotional than the Indian public. It is reflected in various commentators on youtube and tv channels, how they behave when the team looses and abuse and mistreat their own players. India was very similar not too long ago but in the past 5-6 years, things have changed here. I hope that happens in Pakistan too, with the growth int he popularity of PSL, maybe.

I feel for Babar. He is doing the best he can. When was the last time we saw a technically perfect world-class batsman from Pakistan? Today Babar is renowned across the cricketing world and is hailed as one of the potential batting greats. It is an incredible feat if you consider the history and culture of Pakistan. You can't compare Babar's situation with anyone else in the world. No other player (and definitely not KL Rahul) plays with so much pressure that Babar is bearing. Let him play without these constant comparisons and expectations to not just be his best, but score more than everyone else at a SR higher than everyone else. It is absolutely unfair.

Also, Rahul is charting his own journey. He is on a comeback, I think now he understands his strengths and weaknesses and is trying to make the best of the opportunities he is getting. Let's see how long this phase lasts. For those Indian posters here saying KL is better than Babar, that is your opinion and I respect it, but I hope that you consider the situation Babar is dealing with, before you pass your judgments. Forget the hypothetical words like ceiling, higher-gear, impact for a moment and just put yourself in Babar's shoes and understand how lonely it must be for him in a team full of average players and yet he continues to keep scoring runs as well as he can.

Top post!

 

[ataullah]

I feel that Babar is highly underestimated here.

Imagine that you are playing in a team that never had a disciplined batting culture, is deprived of home advantage for a decade, you are surrounded by mediocre and old batsmen, the entire team is relying on you to last as long as possible at the crease, and now you are a captain who will be severely criticised by each and everyone (especially the bitter former players) for every loss, the weight of the entire country on your shoulders - it is not easy to be flamboyant. It is an enormous pressure on his young shoulders. To understand what Babar is going through, just remember Sachin. Even back then, Sachin would be unfairly compared with Ponting who played in a team full of match-winners. Babar, if he had the luxury of batting in a team with Kohli, Rohit and Dhawan, do you think he would not play more flamboyantly as Rahul does once in a while? There is not a single player of his class in Pakistan team that Babar can share his responsibilities and expectations with. And the coaching staff and management is equally average which doesn't know how to support and nurture world-class athletes. What more can he do than consistently score runs and be amongst the top 5 batsmen in the world across all formats for 2-3 years now?

I don't know if I can say this (I have never been to Pakistan in my life), but the public there seems a bit more emotional than the Indian public. It is reflected in various commentators on youtube and tv channels, how they behave when the team looses and abuse and mistreat their own players. India was very similar not too long ago but in the past 5-6 years, things have changed here. I hope that happens in Pakistan too, with the growth int he popularity of PSL, maybe.

I feel for Babar. He is doing the best he can. When was the last time we saw a technically perfect world-class batsman from Pakistan? Today Babar is renowned across the cricketing world and is hailed as one of the potential batting greats. It is an incredible feat if you consider the history and culture of Pakistan. You can't compare Babar's situation with anyone else in the world. No other player (and definitely not KL Rahul) plays with so much pressure that Babar is bearing. Let him play without these constant comparisons and expectations to not just be his best, but score more than everyone else at a SR higher than everyone else. It is absolutely unfair.

Also, Rahul is charting his own journey. He is on a comeback, I think now he understands his strengths and weaknesses and is trying to make the best of the opportunities he is getting. Let's see how long this phase lasts. For those Indian posters here saying KL is better than Babar, that is your opinion and I respect it, but I hope that you consider the situation Babar is dealing with, before you pass your judgments. Forget the hypothetical words like ceiling, higher-gear, impact for a moment and just put yourself in Babar's shoes and understand how lonely it must be for him in a team full of average players and yet he continues to keep scoring runs as well as he can.

Zabardast post. This post is special and unique. I havent seen a post like this from an indian or pakistani regarding their rivals

 

[BreadPakoda]

Mostly agree with [MENTION=150102]sharmaji[/MENTION] here. Top post. However, higher-gear is not a hypothetical term. KL does have a higher gear than Babar. The latter has his own strengths which make him a solid bat..

 

[Rana]

[MENTION=150102]sharmaji[/MENTION] bro I want to ask you. What do you think about Babar being the number 1 T20i batsman in the world, is this a true reflection of his calibre as a T20 player?

 

[Aman]

Rahul looks more talented and has more gears.

Babar more consistent and more composed although Rahul has scored runs basically every game this series.

 

[JaDed]

Didnt WC19 already decide who is better? Also thread is not only about T20s.

Babar is better then if its now(imho).. the post is for constant bumps on potential and gear etc etc, I feel like there is no case till wt20..

 

[OhTwadi]

Clearly Babar atm.

Rahul still got to win a few more games for India to surpass him

 

[Titan24]

Rahul looks more talented and has more gears.

Babar more consistent and more composed although Rahul has scored runs basically every game this series.

For some hitting Steyn (The best test bowler of the generation) for series of 4s in a test match in SA is talent. So talent is pretty subjective thing, in terms batting intelligence and technique Babar has shown ability to handle almost all kinds of conditions. That is what brings in consistency.

 

[jnaveen1980]

For some hitting Steyn (The best test bowler of the generation) for series of 4s in a test match in SA is talent. So talent is pretty subjective thing, in terms batting intelligence and technique Babar has shown ability to handle almost all kinds of conditions. That is what brings in consistency.

When it comes to hitting KL Rahul can take on any bowler non chalantly. He was kinda messed up in his mind for a brief period partly due to Kohli's insecure treatment partly because he had his own mental issues.

Even at his worst form he could play shots like this.

 

[Titan24]

When it comes to hitting KL Rahul can take on any bowler non chalantly. He was kinda messed up in his mind for a brief period partly due to Kohli's insecure treatment partly because he had his own mental issues.

Even at his worst form he could play shots like this.

There is no doubt about his stroke making ability but the question is how consistently he can perform across the formats. He averages 34 in tests after 36 matches and it has actually gone down from the time he debuted.

Also there are often ignored but two of the most important aspects of batting and those are the batting intelligence an adaptability. Babar has that upto the level of top players around. Rahul has often lacked that.

Below is Babar vs Steyn:

<div style="width: 100%; height: 0px; position: relative; padding-bottom: 56.250%;"><iframe src="https://streamable.com/s/6c173/axguif" frameborder="0" width="100%" height="100%" allowfullscreen style="width: 100%; height: 100%; position: absolute;"></iframe></div>

 

[Titan24]

Mark Nicholas said during Babar’s batting vs Steyn “Batting of highest quality it could be Kohli or it could be ABD such is the command”.

 

[jnaveen1980]

There is no doubt about his stroke making ability but the question is how consistently he can perform across the formats. He averages 34 in tests after 36 matches and it has actually gone down from the time he debuted.

Also there are often ignored but two of the most important aspects of batting and those are the batting intelligence an adaptability. Babar has that upto the level of top players around. Rahul has often lacked that.

Below is Babar vs Steyn:

<div style="width: 100%; height: 0px; position: relative; padding-bottom: 56.250%;"><iframe src="https://streamable.com/s/6c173/axguif" frameborder="0" width="100%" height="100%" allowfullscreen style="width: 100%; height: 100%; position: absolute;"></iframe></div>

There was a period when he made 8 Test fifites in a row. In one of the match vs Australia every Indian batsmen struggled vs spin. Rahul was playing on a different pitch. Rahul has changed his stance twice. First time to avoid caught behind/ caught in slips. But that change turned him into an lbw/bowled candidate. That was the period when he was going through a bad patch in Tests. Last year again he changed his stance. He played well in domestic. He started showing consistency afterwards. Now he is able to avoid getting bowled, leg before. I very much doubt he will get many chances in Tests. Unless all the new comers failed he won\t have a chance to come back. Probably if he were part of any other country he would have another run. Not in Indian set up. So at this point it is moot to compare their test record as KL Rahul may never get a chance to play tests any time soon unless Kohli has other ideas.


So we can only compare them in ODI and T20 at this point. Babar's first 11 tests mirrors KL Rahul's last 11 tests. Anything less than century every other innings, KL Rahul will have no way can make up for the the earlier failures. So far he has been reasonably consistent in the LOI. And also he definitely wows Indian fans more than Kohli/Rohit in T20 which is kind of difficult feat to achieve.

If he fixes his mind he can absolutely reach Kohli's peak. He is perfectly capable.

 

[Titan24]

Babar's first 11 tests mirrors KL Rahul's last 11 tests. Anything less than century every other innings, KL Rahul will have no way can make up for the the earlier failures.

Rahul is definitely doing well in LOIs but what you have said regarding tests is bit of a worry for Rahul as Babar’s graph is showing an upward trend after a poor start while Rahul is showing a downward trend in that format. Again ability of Rahul was never in question for me what makes someone1 with potential a great player comes down completely to batting intelligence as that is something which produces some epic knocks and consistency. Kohli is the prime example of it across the formats in modern era, as that guy’s mind operate at an extreme frequency when at crease.

 

[Aman]

For some hitting Steyn (The best test bowler of the generation) for series of 4s in a test match in SA is talent. So talent is pretty subjective thing, in terms batting intelligence and technique Babar has shown ability to handle almost all kinds of conditions. That is what brings in consistency.

Not really, Babar is more Kane and Rahul is more in the Rohit and Kohli stroke play ilk.

I wouldn't say Kane is as talented as Rohit or Kohli despite being able to take the best bowlers to the cleaners.

 

[Aman]

Yesterday Rahul switch hit Neesham for six lol..

Seriously impressive given he isn't really a T20 player and can play classical strokes and dominate when needed.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Mark Nicholas said during Babar’s batting vs Steyn “Batting of highest quality it could be Kohli or it could be ABD such is the command”.

Did you see how Kusal Mendis treated Steyn in that epic series. Thrashed him around so much so they had to take him out of the attack. Same series in the first Test Perera faced 49 balls from Steyn scored 39 runs in that epic chase including a couple of sixes. Steyn lost his mojo long back. He was just click whenever there was proidigious outswing on the offer. Besides SA is known for producing these counter attacking innings due to highly attacking field set. azhar Mahmood's 128 kind of innings. Kapil's 119, Sachin's 169, Azharuddin's 122, Sehwag's 110, Pandya's 93, Sachin himself has played a lot of counter attacking innings. If you look at it most of them got 100.

In the same series where he hit around Steyn , also got bounced out by Olivier three times. You would never see KL Rahul getting bounced out like that. He smoked Cummins for six when he attempted to bounce him out.

At this point Babar is a very good percentage cricketer. He survives better than KL Rahul without many loose strokes. But he has his own weaknesses that needs to be ironed out.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Mark Nicholas said during Babar’s batting vs Steyn “Batting of highest quality it could be Kohli or it could be ABD such is the command”.

Did you see how Kusal Mendis treated Steyn in that epic series. Thrashed him around so much so they had to take him out of the attack. Same series in the first Test Perera faced 49 balls from Steyn scored 39 runs in that epic chase including a couple of sixes. Steyn lost his mojo long back. He was just click whenever there was proidigious outswing on the offer. Besides SA is known for producing these counter attacking innings due to highly attacking field set. azhar Mahmood's 128 kind of innings. Kapil's 119, Sachin's 169, Azharuddin's 122, Sehwag's 110, Pandya's 93, Sachin himself has played a lot of counter attacking innings. If you look at it most of them got 100.

In the same series where he hit around Steyn , also got bounced out by Olivier three times. You would never see KL Rahul getting bounced out like that. He smoked Cummins for six when he attempted to bounce him out.

At this point Babar is a very good percentage cricketer. He survives better than KL Rahul without many loose strokes. But he has his own weaknesses that needs to be ironed out.

 

[Aman]

No doubt Babar is the better batsmen as he knows his game, is more composed, more consistent and proven in different conditions.

Talent wise, I don't think he's the most talented batsmen in his family.

IMO talent is based on how you play (time and stroke play) and ability to switch through gears.

 

[jnaveen1980]

No doubt Babar is the better batsmen as he knows his game, is more composed, more consistent and proven in different conditions.

Talent wise, I don't think he's the most talented batsmen in his family.

IMO talent is based on how you play (time and stroke play) and ability to switch through gears.

Actually i prefer consistent players too. But if you have so many consistent players in your side you would prefer a flair player, game changer. This is why this comparison has no meaning. KL Rahul perfectly fits India's line up. Babar perfectly fits Pakistan's line up. Not sure what the big deal is.

 

[Ab Fan]

Both have still started only and seems to have established their place in the team except Rahul in tests.

Honestly, no point discussing same argument again and again. Let the two play cricket for atleast 100 ODI and 50 tests and then it would make more sense to discuss.

 

[Titan24]

Not really, Babar is more Kane and Rahul is more in the Rohit and Kohli stroke play ilk.

I wouldn't say Kane is as talented as Rohit or Kohli despite being able to take the best bowlers to the cleaners.

There is no way to measure talent or any facts or stats to decide upon what you are saying.

25 year old guy is no1 in T20s, No3 in ODIs, no 7 in tests and is youngest in all 3 formats to be in the top 10. I am not sure what exactly is the measurement of talent on which he is lacking.

Also coming to stroke play his SR is 87 in ODIs vs Williamson’s 81, 55 in tests vs Williamson’s 51 and 128 vs Williamson’s 125 in T20s and average of 50 in T20s vs Williamson’s 32. So I don’t understand the talent matching theory of yours.

Again talent of any player is useless for his team unless he delivers. If Rahul reaches top 3 rankings in two formats and top 3 in three formats I dont think anybody will have any doubts about what he can do. Till then its just assumptions, theories etc. He is talented but to become a great player you need much more than that and if he can develop that than people wont need to come on this thread to prove how his one shot or couple of 80’s are the best thing since sliced bread.

 

[Titan24]

In the same series where he hit around Steyn , also got bounced out by Olivier three times. You would never see KL Rahul getting bounced out like that. He smoked Cummins for six when he attempted to bounce him out. .

How can I see more or Rahul when Vihari, Rahane, Agarwal etc are played and until few months ago Cijay Shankar, Rayadu and Dinesh Karthik we’re preferred over him. Either they guys who were being player were something extraordinary or management didnt think Rahul could do the job then. Its not like he is really young and still developing, he is 27 and should be. entering his peak across the formats.

Babar might have struggled a bit with shortball in SA but in recent Aus tour that wasnt much problem for him and that is what I refer to as adaptability and cricketing intelligence. He understands his shortcomings and work on those. Its not like its every other day a 25 year old reaches top ranks across the formats.

 

[jnaveen1980]

How can I see more or Rahul when Vihari, Rahane, Agarwal etc are played and until few months ago Cijay Shankar, Rayadu and Dinesh Karthik we’re preferred over him. Either they guys who were being player were something extraordinary or management didnt think Rahul could do the job then. Its not like he is really young and still developing, he is 27 and should be. entering his peak across the formats.

Babar might have struggled a bit with shortball in SA but in recent Aus tour that wasnt much problem for him and that is what I refer to as adaptability and cricketing intelligence. He understands his shortcomings and work on those. Its not like its every other day a 25 year old reaches top ranks across the formats.

As i said KL Rahul developed other weaknesses like edging to slips to correct that he changed the stance during the middle of the series then he started getting bowled. After a couple of failures he got discarded. Then he went back to domestic. Also modified his stance. So it is not like he is not trying to fix it. He is. As i said Babar has a tighter defense. KL Rahul does it with a flourish which often leads to his dismissal. There is enough time for him to correct and come back. But not soon though. After failures in 7 or 8 tests he got discarded. He even made a 149 & 38 in between. That is the problem in Indian set up. You cannot afford to have 10 match failures and keep finding your spot. Especially Kohli is very impatient. At this point he will be considered exclusively as a LOI batsman. His statemate Mayank will be preferred as opener. Even if he fails P. Shaw will be the opener. But he still has a slim hope as Rohit will definitely fail in overseas conditions.

 

[sharmaji]

Thanks [MENTION=2016]Rana[/MENTION]. I don't think for the rankings, any qualifiers like "deserving", "real-actual" etc are needed. A ranking is just that: a metric for current performance, based on runs scored recently. What is the point in debating about it? Whoever plays well consistently will get to stay at the top of the rankings. I don't equate ranking and calibre/talent/potential/impact/destructive on the same scale. Someone like Babar and Kohli can be ranked higher, and on a given day, Andre Russell or Carlos Brathwaite can be more destructive than either of them. Rankings are just good for playing trump cards (I remember as kids, we had cricket and WWF trump cards, I don't know if you ever experienced them, they are fun) and that's all.

[MENTION=150102]sharmaji[/MENTION] bro I want to ask you. What do you think about Babar being the number 1 T20i batsman in the world, is this a true reflection of his calibre as a T20 player?

 

[Hyperion66]

IMO talent is based on how you play (time and stroke play) and ability to switch through gears.

Couldn't agree more. Batting talent is all about timing and ability to play strokes all around the ground. Nothing else. Now people complicate things and confuse themselves in the process by bringing in all kinds of stuff like grit, defense, determination, hard work, mental fortitude etc etc into a discussion solely about batting talent. These things are boilerplate personality traits and applicable to all the fields not just cricket.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

On current form he is behind Babar in tests. But overall, he isn't "leagues below" him. What exactly has Babar achieved in tests?

The stats are all there for you to see. #googleisyourfriend

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

To be fair, Babar wouldn't be in Indian Test team either, or get rare opportunities over the last few years.

As far as other formats go, the comparison is all about a rare talent vs a proven performer. While Rahul has thrown away the opportunities he got so far, there is a reason why many former Cricketers and experts are betting on him to be in the same league as Kohli and Rohit.

Right now, this comparison does bring back the memory of Umar Akmal being compared to Kohli in his early days, but the difference here is KL being managed by BCCI and a very capabale support staff. Few Cricketers today are capable of a meteoric rise, and Rahul imo leads that pack.

Yeah well I'm not talking about a hypothetical future that you have already seen. I'm talking about now. The present world. Quality of players is judged on output, not talent. And Babar has accomplished far more at 25 then Rahul has at 27.

 

[TNAmarkFromIndia]

Both have still started only and seems to have established their place in the team except Rahul in tests.

There's no saying what will happen of Rahul in T20Is once Dhawan returns. Kohli prefers Dhawan to open with Rohit Sharma in both LOI formats so Rahul might have to move back down. As for ODIs, Kohli and the team management seems to have come up with an excuse to play Rahul by batting him at 5, but they've tried and given up on so many players recently (Rayudu, Karthik, Shankar, Pant etc.) that there's no saying if Rahul will get a consistent run at No. 5 or that he'll even be in the ODI scheme of things a year from now. If he is and he can keep performing consistently, it would be great.

 

[Sidilicious]

There's no saying what will happen of Rahul in T20Is once Dhawan returns. Kohli prefers Dhawan to open with Rohit Sharma in both LOI formats so Rahul might have to move back down. As for ODIs, Kohli and the team management seems to have come up with an excuse to play Rahul by batting him at 5, but they've tried and given up on so many players recently (Rayudu, Karthik, Shankar, Pant etc.) that there's no saying if Rahul will get a consistent run at No. 5 or that he'll even be in the ODI scheme of things a year from now. If he is and he can keep performing consistently, it would be great.

To be fair to Kohli, making Rahul the 3rd captain in T20s (when Rohit was injured) was a huge show of confidence in Rahul. Especially when you had Bumrah in the XI, who is the only other player after Kohli to be a guaranteed starter in all formats for India. I do think that Kohli will try to keep KL in the side, opening or middle order.

 

[TNAmarkFromIndia]

To be fair to Kohli, making Rahul the 3rd captain in T20s (when Rohit was injured) was a huge show of confidence in Rahul.

He had given his vote of confidence to Rayudu in the past and he was dropped right before the World Cup, so I don't think Kohli's vote of confidence means much.

 

[aukhan]

Just saw his batting videos. Don't think Babar can compete with him, Rahul is superior in all aspects.

Babar will score more soft runs where as he is impactful and destructive. Babar is brilliant by our standards though. Beggars cant be choosers.

 

[CricketZ]

Just saw his batting videos. Don't think Babar can compete with him, Rahul is superior in all aspects.

Babar will score more soft runs where as he is impactful and destructive. Babar is brilliant by our standards though. Beggars cant be choosers.

Well said

 

[Joseph Gomes]

Hacking a few matches won't make Rahul a competitor to Babar lol. Let's see if Rahul can even cement his place in the side.