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Bangladesh’s GDP per person is now higher than Pakistan’s

Not sure. Bangladesh hasn't had the problems that Pakistan had i.e. the Soviet Invasion of Afghanistan, the fall out, War on terror. These things have fueled extremism and terrorism in Pakistan.
 
Not sure. Bangladesh hasn't had the problems that Pakistan had i.e. the Soviet Invasion of Afghanistan, the fall out, War on terror. These things have fueled extremism and terrorism in Pakistan.

That is true. However wasn’t it a leadership decision to be involved In both Afghan war and the war on terror?

India has had issues Kashmir problem, Punjab insurgency in the 80s, 4 wars with Pakistan,1 with China etc and even though not unleashed even half of its potential, Indian has done relatively well, don’t you agree?. I am highlighting the word relatively here because don’t want to or hit a nerve and get all those stereotypical responses .
 
That is true. However wasn’t it a leadership decision to be involved In both Afghan war and the war on terror?

India has had issues Kashmir problem, Punjab insurgency in the 80s, 4 wars with Pakistan,1 with China etc and even though not unleashed even half of its potential, Indian has done relatively well, don’t you agree?. I am highlighting the word relatively here because don’t want to or hit a nerve and get all those stereotypical responses .

when you will have dozens of suicide attacks in a day for a decade and when you will face good chunk of Capital flight thn let us know .....
 
when you will have dozens of suicide attacks in a day for a decade and when you will face good chunk of Capital flight thn let us know .....

India doesn't need dozens of suicide attacks.. shape of current Indian economy even prior to covid was stagnant and poor. It is On the brink of huge youth unemployment crisis due to lack of job creation.

India has managed to mess it up despite decades of relative stability in the region. Unlike what Pakistan has had to endure due to Western powers meddling in Afghanistan.

I don't see what is the point of chest thumping I see from economic point of view from certain neighbours rather than being more humble like current pak leadership which is tackling corruption first.
 
Not sure. Bangladesh hasn't had the problems that Pakistan had i.e. the Soviet Invasion of Afghanistan, the fall out, War on terror. These things have fueled extremism and terrorism in Pakistan.

Dear Savak bro,

we wish Pakistan well.

Economic progress is the way out for this region.
 
when you will have dozens of suicide attacks in a day for a decade and when you will face good chunk of Capital flight thn let us know .....

As Hillary Clinton famously said:

"It's like that old story - you can't keep snakes in your backyard and expect them only to bite your neighbours. Eventually those snakes are going to turn on whoever has them in the backyard," Clinton said during a joint news conference with Foreign Minister Hina Rabbani Khar.

https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/sna...nt-bite-only-neighbours-hillary-to-pak-573412

Fortunately India does not have an Army that feels the necessity to justify its domestic power by fighting a low-level war against an external enemy with pet snakes. So no "dozens of suicide bombers" a day for India.
 
A lot of credit to Hasina. She has been the Mahathir of Bangladesh.

A country like Bangladesh needs a strong leader who is committed to the free market like Hasina, similar to what Mahathir was to Malaysia.

Indira Gandhi also had the political power, but tragically promoted state control of the economy which continued the rot started by her father.
 
As Hillary Clinton famously said:



Fortunately India does not have an Army that feels the necessity to justify its domestic power by fighting a low-level war against an external enemy with pet snakes. So no "dozens of suicide bombers" a day for India.

keep repeating the bullcrap of hillary clinton, someone should ask her who trained OBL ? and no body is able to answer this from US ....

also you dont need a suicide bomb, becoz you already have a time bomb in your hands, and clock is tiking .... Modi just made a huge mistake ....
its a long game so, wait and watch ..... :)
 
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A lot of credit to Hasina. She has been the Mahathir of Bangladesh.

A country like Bangladesh needs a strong leader who is committed to the free market like Hasina, similar to what Mahathir was to Malaysia.

Indira Gandhi also had the political power, but tragically promoted state control of the economy which continued the rot started by her father.

once hasina is gone thn we will see what she hide under the carpet ..... :)
 
That is true. However wasn’t it a leadership decision to be involved In both Afghan war and the war on terror?

India has had issues Kashmir problem, Punjab insurgency in the 80s, 4 wars with Pakistan,1 with China etc and even though not unleashed even half of its potential, Indian has done relatively well, don’t you agree?. I am highlighting the word relatively here because don’t want to or hit a nerve and get all those stereotypical responses .

I try to wrap my head around it, the only plausible explanation i have is maybe corruption in Pakistan is much worse than India especially during political govt's and Pakistani political govt's have been ten times more incompetent vs Indian political govts. Nawaz atleast did a few things in Punjab even if it was for showpiece purposes and not really wise in the long run but what the heck have the PPP, Zardari and Bhutto done for Sindh?
 
GDP per capita is no accurate measure of wealth, nor an economy. All it is, is an average, not actual wealth.

Finance industry is slowly shifting away from GDP numbers as accurate measures.

For the Chest Thumpers, if GDP per capita is accurate and relative, then Luxemburg and UAE would be considered larger economies than USA and India - combined - but they're not.

:)
 
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As Hillary Clinton famously said:



Fortunately India does not have an Army that feels the necessity to justify its domestic power by fighting a low-level war against an external enemy with pet snakes. So no "dozens of suicide bombers" a day for India.

I always think there should be more appreciation from India that Pakistan was created. Effectively it created a buffer zone so you guys could live in relative peace, and put the more volatile borders in Pakistan's authority. How would you like to go back to pre-partition days when India had Afghanistan as neighbours? OBL and ISIS would have been setting up camp on your doorstep rather than Pakistan's.
 
once hasina is gone thn we will see what she hide under the carpet ..... :)

Given that her country has experienced an increase in income of a hundred billion dollars a year under her leadership, it is quite irrelevant is she stole a billion (which I don't believe she did).

This obsession with money allegedly stolen by previous leaders is stopping Pakistanis from coming up with real solutions for their economic malaise.
 
Some Indians might use this thread to take shots at Pakistan which is actually quite wrong. Actually what purpose does an Indian having posting in this thread. This is moment that belongs to Bangladesh.
 
I think as good as Hasina is she is an authoritative leader with dictatorial tendencies. Will be interesting to see how things change after her. Better to have well oiled institutions than depend on one star, Tamil Nadu has been in a similar boat in the past but thankfully we always had strong opposition leaders. Last I heard all the BD opposition leaders are jailed, abroad or reduced to irrelevance.

Biggest challenge for their country will be natural disasters and rising sea levels in the next 50 years or so.
 
I always think there should be more appreciation from India that Pakistan was created. Effectively it created a buffer zone so you guys could live in relative peace, and put the more volatile borders in Pakistan's authority. How would you like to go back to pre-partition days when India had Afghanistan as neighbours? OBL and ISIS would have been setting up camp on your doorstep rather than Pakistan's.

They'd still blame Muslims/Islam.
 
They'd still blame Muslims/Islam.

This question always sticks in the craws of Indian arch-nationalists, because they have to admit they prefer a section of India rather than to go back to pre-partition version...or so called Akhand Bharat. An India that was never carved up would give them two problems

1) double the population of Muslims inside India

2) a hostile Afghan neighbour with a history of raids on India

When I touch this subject even the most joshila of Indian nationalists will go running for the hills.
 
This question always sticks in the craws of Indian arch-nationalists, because they have to admit they prefer a section of India rather than to go back to pre-partition version...or so called Akhand Bharat. An India that was never carved up would give them two problems



2) a hostile Afghan neighbour with a history of raids on India

When I touch this subject even the most joshila of Indian nationalists will go running for the hills.

If you have ever seen the globe/atlas/map etc, simple question If you have to travel to India via land from Afghanistan guess which country they have to cross? :))

Unless it was a barren land or dessert, don't think those "warriors" were very accommodating to the people they came across in their journey.
 
If you have ever seen the globe/atlas/map etc, simple question If you have to travel to India via land from Afghanistan guess which country they have to cross? :))

Unless it was a barren land or dessert, don't think those "warriors" were very accommodating to the people they came across in their journey.

Did you read the post properly? I am talking about pre-partition. So, which country would they have to cross then?
 
These metrics don't matter to a mullah nation like Pakistan, they only care about keeping mosques open during pandemics and disenfranchising women. This is the real satisfaction for mullah nation.
 
You completely missed/ignored his point and that is understandable.:)

If you have ever seen the globe/atlas/map etc, simple question If you have to travel to India via land from Afghanistan guess which country they have to cross? :))

Unless it was a barren land or dessert, don't think those "warriors" were very accommodating to the people they came across in their journey.

Its the land where they decided to settle after ruling Dehli for centuries.
 
Rajdeep shared in another thread that Bangladesh's economy is bigger than Pakistan's in size.

If true this is rapid rise from Bangladesh in last 10 years.

[MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION] please shed some more light and how things are shaping up for next decade

Not correct for 2020. In few years BD should have a larger GDP than Pakistan.
 
These metrics don't matter to a mullah nation like Pakistan, they only care about keeping mosques open during pandemics and disenfranchising women. This is the real satisfaction for mullah nation.

Bengalis are more extreme minded than Pakistanis but that is another debate.

If you will stand against the tide in this world then you have to face the consequences. But that being said, our leaders over the last 50 years are responsible for the current mess. Pakistan had enough potential to stand against the tide and still prosper.

Btw, if there is to be land contact between Bangladesh and Pakistan, then I am sure the Bangladeshis will be migrating to Pakistan, not the other way around.
 
Bengalis are more extreme minded than Pakistanis but that is another debate.

If you will stand against the tide in this world then you have to face the consequences. But that being said, our leaders over the last 50 years are responsible for the current mess. Pakistan had enough potential to stand against the tide and still prosper.

Btw, if there is to be land contact between Bangladesh and Pakistan, then I am sure the Bangladeshis will be migrating to Pakistan, not the other way around.

Why are you sure?
 
Per capita gap should get wider in coming decade with current trajectory. Trajectory is 30 years old and accelerating.

BD_Pakistan.jpg
 
Why are you sure?

There is lot more poverty in Bangladesh. A large population with few resources and shrinking land. I have watched few documentaries. Sadly, the millions of poor Bangladeshis are living extremely miserable lives. Pakistan has that kind of poverty only in some far flung deserts of Sindh and Balochistan with sparse population.

Although it must be mentioned that Bangladeshi government has done a lot better to reduce poverty over the last 20 years.
 
Did you read the post properly? I am talking about pre-partition. So, which country would they have to cross then?
Unwittingly he agreed with the point you raised in your post.
Getting used to these subliminal levels of idiocy.
 
Did you read the post properly? I am talking about pre-partition. So, which country would they have to cross then?

Ok pre partition they crossed a land which is known as current day Pakistan and plundered and pillaged there which sure is a bitter part of Indian history but not sure why you would use that as some kind of a point scoring though? Neither it was a British conquest nor if you are current day Pakistani or of that origin that would be a happy part of history given the blood and violence that was unleashed on the people of that area. I am from Mumbai and my origin is from South India, there wasn’t any Afghan invasion on those areas, sure there were some small time Kings/Nawabs after many years which happened organically so not sure if this Afghan invasion affects me as much as it would affect a modern day Pakistani.

So what was your point? I guess English is your first language above Urdu,Arabic,Punjabi etc for me it’s third after my mother tounge and Hindi so please feel free to expand as to what your point was?
 
GDP per capita is no accurate measure of wealth, nor an economy. All it is, is an average, not actual wealth.

Finance industry is slowly shifting away from GDP numbers as accurate measures.

For the Chest Thumpers, if GDP per capita is accurate and relative, then Luxemburg and UAE would be considered larger economies than USA and India - combined - but they're not.

:)

What are you talking about? What matters is living standard. I would much rather live in UAE or Luxembourg than India or USA in terms of living standard.

Truth of the matter is, Bangladesh is doing far better than us. We would be wise to understand that and work harder.
 
We should be happy for them, despite our history, they are our muslim brothers.

Pakistan has problems with Population growth, but That can be an advantage if used correctly.
 
Bangladesh HDI (Human Development Index) is also better than India and Pakistan.
I think they have done a lot of good things economically our Bangla brothers.
 
It is also true that we have not taken into account the huge impact CPEC economic corridor would have on Pakistan's economy.

Bangladesh does not have that advantageml.

If CPEC is a success Pakistan could potentially rival Italy, Australia in few years not Bangladesh
 
What are you talking about? What matters is living standard. I would much rather live in UAE or Luxembourg than India or USA in terms of living standard.

Truth of the matter is, Bangladesh is doing far better than us. We would be wise to understand that and work harder.

If your country had more people like you, it would make progress. To get to a better place it is essential to face reality than indulge in wishful thinking.
 
If your country had more people like you, it would make progress. To get to a better place it is essential to face reality than indulge in wishful thinking.

Pakistan’s greatest problem is our mentality. We sit and wait for others to fix our problems for us, this is why we will blame the government and cycle through leaders and watch politics like hawks, blame India and blame minorities and blame the US, but will not do anything ourselves to improve things. If you’re part of the crowd that would rather not blame, it is likely you would rather pretend all is alright and ignore the mass destitute poverty our country is in by making absurd claims about the GDP

What really can you say about a country where every half decently educated individual makes it their life goal to emigrate abroad... i long for the day people wake up and smell the burning food in their own kitchens, maybe we can become better people and work harder as a nation for ourselves and for each other.
 
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Ok pre partition they crossed a land which is known as current day Pakistan and plundered and pillaged there which sure is a bitter part of Indian history but not sure why you would use that as some kind of a point scoring though? Neither it was a British conquest nor if you are current day Pakistani or of that origin that would be a happy part of history given the blood and violence that was unleashed on the people of that area. I am from Mumbai and my origin is from South India, there wasn’t any Afghan invasion on those areas, sure there were some small time Kings/Nawabs after many years which happened organically so not sure if this Afghan invasion affects me as much as it would affect a modern day Pakistani.

So what was your point? I guess English is your first language above Urdu,Arabic,Punjabi etc for me it’s third after my mother tounge and Hindi so please feel free to expand as to what your point was?


Ok so it finally registered in your reluctant skull that it was in fact India that the Afghans used to plunder. I wasn't trying to point score here, this is just your pain flaring up in recognising this fact. My point was only that Pakistan is in fact a good thing for India in that it provides a buffer for current day India from this peril, and more Indians should recognise this instead of being ashamed of it.

I mean if you want to divide India up into separate nations where south is considered separate from the north, then your response makes more sense. Is that where you are coming from?
 
Pakistan’s greatest problem is our mentality. We sit and wait for others to fix our problems for us, this is why we will blame the government and cycle through leaders and watch politics like hawks, blame India and blame minorities and blame the US, but will not do anything ourselves to improve things. If you’re part of the crowd that would rather not blame, it is likely you would rather pretend all is alright and ignore the mass destitute poverty our country is in by making absurd claims about the GDP

What really can you say about a country where every half decently educated individual makes it their life goal to emigrate abroad... i long for the day people wake up and smell the burning food in their own kitchens, maybe we can become better people and work harder as a nation for ourselves and for each other.

Very well said.

Though there has been some progress in India, there is a long way to go. A huge number of Indians still remain in grinding poverty.

Sustained democracy is the only hope of the poor that their leaders will actually try to do something for them.
 
Pakistan’s greatest problem is our mentality. We sit and wait for others to fix our problems for us, this is why we will blame the government and cycle through leaders and watch politics like hawks, blame India and blame minorities and blame the US, but will not do anything ourselves to improve things. If you’re part of the crowd that would rather not blame, it is likely you would rather pretend all is alright and ignore the mass destitute poverty our country is in by making absurd claims about the GDP

What really can you say about a country where every half decently educated individual makes it their life goal to emigrate abroad... i long for the day people wake up and smell the burning food in their own kitchens, maybe we can become better people and work harder as a nation for ourselves and for each other.

In a democracy, people always make their own destiny, if they want to wait on others to make their situation better, then good luck to them. You can only be responsible for yourself, and as I am pretty sure you have emigrated, then that's your dream fulfilled. You and your family are now where you belong.
 
Getting rich in confidence and self esteem also counts brother

Not if you are going to bed hungry.

61% of Indians were in extreme poverty in 1980 according to World Bank statistics. That percentage has fallen to about 10% since India got rid of Nehruvian-Gandhian socialism.

All this moralizing and idealism is an indulgence of those who were at the top during India's socialist years, for the mass of Indians it was a horrible life.
 
India could always provide an alternative to China if they think they can do better.

It could happen, but Pakistan has to stop arming those who kill Indians like the ones in Pulwama.

Bangladesh also has issues with India but behaves like an adult and has a dialogue rather than arming terrorists. It's economy is also going gangbusters.
 
It could happen, but Pakistan has to stop arming those who kill Indians like the ones in Pulwama.

Bangladesh also has issues with India but behaves like an adult and has a dialogue rather than arming terrorists. It's economy is also going gangbusters.

Bangladesh is going such gangbusters your own govt is building walls to keep out the immigrants. Someone should maybe tell the people who actually live in Bangladesh how great they are doing.

Anyway, no point in carrying out a discussion with someone who is only here to peddle the usual Indian propaganda about terrorists and blah blah. Seems like India has nothing to offer Pakistan other than the usual claptrap, so pointless giving useless advice about China. If you can provide a better alternative then do it. If not, then kindly keep your useless advice to yourself.
 
I guess its time for some Bangladeshi perspective here..

First of all, I can't speak for Pakistan's economy and their struggles over the last few decades here. But after 1947 and up until 1971, West Pakistan had been well off economically compared to East Pakistan (or Bangladesh). And there is no point comparing BD's economy to India which is multiple folds larger and bigger. It is like comparing apples to oranges.

Bangladesh started off very poorly. Post war and destructive cyclones caused widespread famine throughout the 70s. The population was hugely agrarian with poor infrastructure.

It is only during the late 90s and in the last two decades the country has achieved tremendous growth. This was due to some policy changes and foreign investments. Plus the involvement of women. It will be an understatement to say how the women contributed to the uplifting of poverty and made a huge impact on economy. The textile industry is the biggest industry by far and provides a living wage to millions across the country. Additionally, NGOs such as BRAC and Grameen Bank (Micro credit pioneered by Dr. Yunus) played a big role. They focused on the social aspects and provided basic education and health services to millions. And they still do.

But it is easy to grow at exponential rates when you are starting from a low point. You can grow at 7-10% annually but that won't be the case for a matured economy. That is where the challenge lies for BD.

I am old enough to witness the mass poverty during the 80s and 90s. But fast forward 3 decades later, much of the poverty has been erased. Of course there is poverty in parts and in corners but Alhamdulillah things are so much better now. Anecdotally speaking, people in villages don't suffer from lack of food and education. People in cities are going for higher education and doing so much better.

Hasina is a shrewd leader. Her one party authoritarian has curbed democracy and political dissent. Awami League has been in power for more than 10 years now with the opposition party of Zia all but extinguished. But maybe Western style democracy isn't suited for a small homogeneous country like BD. As much as I despise her, she has delivered on economic promises and general populace don't care much as long their lives are improving and a strong middle class is growing and expanding.

The country still has a lot more ways to go. There are many areas to improve. But for that we need to keep our focus on our internal matters and not bogged down by global politics. We should continue to do with what is working for us.
 
In a democracy, people always make their own destiny, if they want to wait on others to make their situation better, then good luck to them. You can only be responsible for yourself, and as I am pretty sure you have emigrated, then that's your dream fulfilled. You and your family are now where you belong.

Don’t worry, I haven’t. I study abroad with full intentions of coming back.
 
I guess its time for some Bangladeshi perspective here..

First of all, I can't speak for Pakistan's economy and their struggles over the last few decades here. But after 1947 and up until 1971, West Pakistan had been well off economically compared to East Pakistan (or Bangladesh). And there is no point comparing BD's economy to India which is multiple folds larger and bigger. It is like comparing apples to oranges.

Bangladesh started off very poorly. Post war and destructive cyclones caused widespread famine throughout the 70s. The population was hugely agrarian with poor infrastructure.

It is only during the late 90s and in the last two decades the country has achieved tremendous growth. This was due to some policy changes and foreign investments. Plus the involvement of women. It will be an understatement to say how the women contributed to the uplifting of poverty and made a huge impact on economy. The textile industry is the biggest industry by far and provides a living wage to millions across the country. Additionally, NGOs such as BRAC and Grameen Bank (Micro credit pioneered by Dr. Yunus) played a big role. They focused on the social aspects and provided basic education and health services to millions. And they still do.

But it is easy to grow at exponential rates when you are starting from a low point. You can grow at 7-10% annually but that won't be the case for a matured economy. That is where the challenge lies for BD.

I am old enough to witness the mass poverty during the 80s and 90s. But fast forward 3 decades later, much of the poverty has been erased. Of course there is poverty in parts and in corners but Alhamdulillah things are so much better now. Anecdotally speaking, people in villages don't suffer from lack of food and education. People in cities are going for higher education and doing so much better.

Hasina is a shrewd leader. Her one party authoritarian has curbed democracy and political dissent. Awami League has been in power for more than 10 years now with the opposition party of Zia all but extinguished. But maybe Western style democracy isn't suited for a small homogeneous country like BD. As much as I despise her, she has delivered on economic promises and general populace don't care much as long their lives are improving and a strong middle class is growing and expanding.

The country still has a lot more ways to go. There are many areas to improve. But for that we need to keep our focus on our internal matters and not bogged down by global politics. We should continue to do with what is working for us.

Thanks for sharing, I wish your country well and hope you attain prosperity soon. Also hope our two countries can move past the bloody history and develop a deep bond. Seems unlikely till Sheikh Hasina is in government because she is very anti-Pak, it's like us hoping for peaceful relations with India while small man Modi still is PM.

If there is a change in regime in BD in a few years then maybe relations would improve, however, seeing how well BD has done economically under Hasina it is unlikely that she would be voted out of office any time soon.
 
I guess its time for some Bangladeshi perspective here..

First of all, I can't speak for Pakistan's economy and their struggles over the last few decades here. But after 1947 and up until 1971, West Pakistan had been well off economically compared to East Pakistan (or Bangladesh). And there is no point comparing BD's economy to India which is multiple folds larger and bigger. It is like comparing apples to oranges.

Bangladesh started off very poorly. Post war and destructive cyclones caused widespread famine throughout the 70s. The population was hugely agrarian with poor infrastructure.

It is only during the late 90s and in the last two decades the country has achieved tremendous growth. This was due to some policy changes and foreign investments. Plus the involvement of women. It will be an understatement to say how the women contributed to the uplifting of poverty and made a huge impact on economy. The textile industry is the biggest industry by far and provides a living wage to millions across the country. Additionally, NGOs such as BRAC and Grameen Bank (Micro credit pioneered by Dr. Yunus) played a big role. They focused on the social aspects and provided basic education and health services to millions. And they still do.

But it is easy to grow at exponential rates when you are starting from a low point. You can grow at 7-10% annually but that won't be the case for a matured economy. That is where the challenge lies for BD.

I am old enough to witness the mass poverty during the 80s and 90s. But fast forward 3 decades later, much of the poverty has been erased. Of course there is poverty in parts and in corners but Alhamdulillah things are so much better now. Anecdotally speaking, people in villages don't suffer from lack of food and education. People in cities are going for higher education and doing so much better.

Hasina is a shrewd leader. Her one party authoritarian has curbed democracy and political dissent. Awami League has been in power for more than 10 years now with the opposition party of Zia all but extinguished. But maybe Western style democracy isn't suited for a small homogeneous country like BD. As much as I despise her, she has delivered on economic promises and general populace don't care much as long their lives are improving and a strong middle class is growing and expanding.

The country still has a lot more ways to go. There are many areas to improve. But for that we need to keep our focus on our internal matters and not bogged down by global politics. We should continue to do with what is working for us.

Lots of lessons for Pakistan. I’m glad you have been able to witness Bangladesh transform itself. I hope we can see the same
 
Thanks for sharing, I wish your country well and hope you attain prosperity soon. Also hope our two countries can move past the bloody history and develop a deep bond. Seems unlikely till Sheikh Hasina is in government because she is very anti-Pak, it's like us hoping for peaceful relations with India while small man Modi still is PM.

If there is a change in regime in BD in a few years then maybe relations would improve, however, seeing how well BD has done economically under Hasina it is unlikely that she would be voted out of office any time soon.

Thanks for the well wishes and I make dua and hope the same for Pakistani people as well.

I agree that Hasina is very anti-Pak. In fact, her platform is still about war and independence from Pak. But normal people rarely care about events 50 years ago. Yes, its part of history and we respect that. She won't be voted out as long as she is alive. There will be a crisis in leadership when she dies and that may endanger the relative political stability that we had for the last decade. That will be a real test for BD.

Trade relations are normal with Pak but no where near as it should be. In a globalized economy, trade and ease of movement of labor and goods is paramount for both countries.
 
Lots of lessons for Pakistan. I’m glad you have been able to witness Bangladesh transform itself. I hope we can see the same

Yes, I have seen poverty vanish from many parts and overall education rate climbing. But don't get me wrong. BD is still a third world country. There is no reason for chest thumping and claiming we are developed...at the very best we are "developing".

At the end of the day, these metrics are just targets and benchmarks. A regular Bangladeshi doesn't care if their GDP is higher than Pakistan or India. There needs to be visible improvement in their daily lives and a promise/pathway for better future. If not, these numbers are meaningless.

Inequality in wealth and income is one of the most concerning thing in south Asia. Someone can be filthy rich living in mansions surrounded by slums. That is apparent in most of the major cities here whether its Mumbai, Dhaka, or Karachi. Couple of flashy Mercedes and BMWs looks good on social media but is no indication on the overall improvement of the general masses.

A lot of work needs to be done.
 
Thanks for the well wishes and I make dua and hope the same for Pakistani people as well.

I agree that Hasina is very anti-Pak. In fact, her platform is still about war and independence from Pak. But normal people rarely care about events 50 years ago. Yes, its part of history and we respect that. She won't be voted out as long as she is alive. There will be a crisis in leadership when she dies and that may endanger the relative political stability that we had for the last decade. That will be a real test for BD.

Trade relations are normal with Pak but no where near as it should be. In a globalized economy, trade and ease of movement of labor and goods is paramount for both countries.



Interesting. Why do you think so ?
 
Interesting. Why do you think so ?

BD is dominated by two major parties --

Awami League - Hasina's party. Left leaning. Pro India. Nationalistic at its core. Secular.
BNP - Khaleda Zia. Right leaning. Pro OIC and Islamic world. Conservative.

Two lesser known parties --

Jatiyo Party - founded by Army General Hussain Mohammed Irshad. He passed away recently and party splintered.
Jamaat e Islami - as the name implies very conservative and an offshoot of Pak Jamaat e Islami.

So Hasina has totally neutralized BNP. Khaleda Zia is under house arrest for corruption charges. Her son, and apparent heir - Tareq Zia is on exile in London for corruption. Their grass root movement has been dismantled.

Hasina runs the country with an iron fist. Any dissent gets silenced and punished. No one within her party dares her authority as she is the daughter of Sheikh Mujib. She even removed the previous Army general and installed someone of her choice. So even the defense is under her control.

The general public lacks the willpower and overall mass movement to threaten her rule. Why? Because of the relative economic growth and stability. For example, during our "democratic" years, we would have strikes by opposition parties that would paralyze the whole country. It was a very common occurrence with all schools and factories closed. The strikes would get violent too. But in the last 10 or so years, there was no strikes. Which is good for the business leaders and many textile factories (lifeline of BD economy) and hence no desire from to remove Hasina either.
 
With regard to India, BD has no choice but to cooperate with her biggest neighbor. There is no denying the fact that India is an economic powerhouse in Asia (if not globally). A small country like BD can't isolate from India and prosper. Thousands of years of common history and culture also makes it no brainer that we should trade with India.

There are some internal issues (border disputes, water sharing, India building transit through BD for their NE states) but if we isolate ourselves from such a large economy, then we will only suffer.
 
There is no Punjabi, Sindhi, Pakhtun, Balochi, Mohajir, Siraiki, Hazara etc. End of story.
 
BD is dominated by two major parties --

Awami League - Hasina's party. Left leaning. Pro India. Nationalistic at its core. Secular.
BNP - Khaleda Zia. Right leaning. Pro OIC and Islamic world. Conservative.

Two lesser known parties --

Jatiyo Party - founded by Army General Hussain Mohammed Irshad. He passed away recently and party splintered.
Jamaat e Islami - as the name implies very conservative and an offshoot of Pak Jamaat e Islami.

So Hasina has totally neutralized BNP. Khaleda Zia is under house arrest for corruption charges. Her son, and apparent heir - Tareq Zia is on exile in London for corruption. Their grass root movement has been dismantled.

Hasina runs the country with an iron fist. Any dissent gets silenced and punished. No one within her party dares her authority as she is the daughter of Sheikh Mujib. She even removed the previous Army general and installed someone of her choice. So even the defense is under her control.

The general public lacks the willpower and overall mass movement to threaten her rule. Why? Because of the relative economic growth and stability. For example, during our "democratic" years, we would have strikes by opposition parties that would paralyze the whole country. It was a very common occurrence with all schools and factories closed. The strikes would get violent too. But in the last 10 or so years, there was no strikes. Which is good for the business leaders and many textile factories (lifeline of BD economy) and hence no desire from to remove Hasina either.

Doesn't sound that different to Pakistan's military rule in principle, especially when Musharraf was running the show. Although Pakistan's circumstances due to regional position means there is never likely to be much stability like in Bangladesh.
 
With regard to India, BD has no choice but to cooperate with her biggest neighbor. There is no denying the fact that India is an economic powerhouse in Asia (if not globally). A small country like BD can't isolate from India and prosper. Thousands of years of common history and culture also makes it no brainer that we should trade with India.

There are some internal issues (border disputes, water sharing, India building transit through BD for their NE states) but if we isolate ourselves from such a large economy, then we will only suffer.


I am interested by the phrasing of your sentences .. we 'have no choice but to cooperate' and we 'musnt isolate from India'. Do you view India as this boogieman that you reluctantly have to deal with instead of just a normal neighbour.. is it because of the current Modi govt or indian governments in general ?
 
BD is dominated by two major parties --

Awami League - Hasina's party. Left leaning. Pro India. Nationalistic at its core. Secular.
BNP - Khaleda Zia. Right leaning. Pro OIC and Islamic world. Conservative.

Two lesser known parties --

Jatiyo Party - founded by Army General Hussain Mohammed Irshad. He passed away recently and party splintered.
Jamaat e Islami - as the name implies very conservative and an offshoot of Pak Jamaat e Islami.

So Hasina has totally neutralized BNP. Khaleda Zia is under house arrest for corruption charges. Her son, and apparent heir - Tareq Zia is on exile in London for corruption. Their grass root movement has been dismantled.

Hasina runs the country with an iron fist. Any dissent gets silenced and punished. No one within her party dares her authority as she is the daughter of Sheikh Mujib. She even removed the previous Army general and installed someone of her choice. So even the defense is under her control.

The general public lacks the willpower and overall mass movement to threaten her rule. Why? Because of the relative economic growth and stability. For example, during our "democratic" years, we would have strikes by opposition parties that would paralyze the whole country. It was a very common occurrence with all schools and factories closed. The strikes would get violent too. But in the last 10 or so years, there was no strikes. Which is good for the business leaders and many textile factories (lifeline of BD economy) and hence no desire from to remove Hasina either.


Wow. Thanks for the detailed explanation.

But you left me a bit confused here. Are people in general happy with her rule or is there any widespread dissent ? Or is it somewhere in the middle ?
 
I am interested by the phrasing of your sentences .. we 'have no choice but to cooperate' and we 'musnt isolate from India'. Do you view India as this boogieman that you reluctantly have to deal with instead of just a normal neighbour.. is it because of the current Modi govt or indian governments in general ?

India is stronger than BD in all aspects (military, economy etc.) so they will have always have a higher leverage. Sometimes the trade deals don't work in our favors but we have to reluctantly agree to them. BD is surrounded by India from all sides (except a small sliver with Myanmar and then Bay of Bengal) while Pakistan shares border with India, Afg, Iran, China etc. So geographically also, we are bound by our limitations.

They have billion plus consumers and so does China. But it is easier for BD to trade with India due to our common culture and history than let's say with China.

I wouldn't say they are the boogeyman but they have a lot of influence over BD for sure.
 
It could happen, but Pakistan has to stop arming those who kill Indians like the ones in Pulwama.

Bangladesh also has issues with India but behaves like an adult and has a dialogue rather than arming terrorists. It's economy is also going gangbusters.

stop whining goddamn it :mns

your bunch is always crying about something for some reason :jordan
 
Bangladesh is going such gangbusters your own govt is building walls to keep out the immigrants. Someone should maybe tell the people who actually live in Bangladesh how great they are doing.

There is a spectrum of countries, on one end those which need walls to keep out economic migrants, and at the other who need constant bailouts. The movement of Bangladesh is definitely towards the former.
 
Wow. Thanks for the detailed explanation.

But you left me a bit confused here. Are people in general happy with her rule or is there any widespread dissent ? Or is it somewhere in the middle ?

She is somewhat like Lee Kuan Yew was for Singapore and Mahathir was for Malaysia. Some countries need a strong leader to progress economically. But that leader has to desire economic development rather than just preside over an organization whose main goal is to suck the rest of the country dry.

She is a dictator no doubt, and has crushed the opposition by undemocratic means. Amazingly she has finally brought to justice some of people responsible for the Bangladesh Genocide and also the murder of her father and other family members.
 
Wow. Thanks for the detailed explanation.

But you left me a bit confused here. Are people in general happy with her rule or is there any widespread dissent ? Or is it somewhere in the middle ?

in general they are happy. only cause the economy is going well. there are dissent but they aren't as significant. they don't want to rock the boat too much that is providing economic and social stability.

they don't care too much about western style democracy. but it does lead to a dangerous path in the long run. leads to authoritarianism.

but dissents are palpable. one case in example is the latest election where Mashrafee Mortaza became an MP. He was apolitical throughout his career and was revered across party lines. He was probably the most popular Bangladeshi (more than Shakib as the latter had few scandals). but when he contested and won the election (which was a farce) he lost a lot of the goodwill from general public. He became a controversial only caused he joined Hasina's party.

but these dissents are not translated into meaningful actions.
 
Putting aside all the statistics, here's a very simple and straightforward question to you all:
IF you were forced to choose between living in one or the other of these two countries, would you choose Pakistan or Bangladesh?

Note: The question is not about whether you prefer the USA, or UK, or India, or anywhere else other than the two countries mentioned.

So either choose between Pakistan and Bangladesh, or refrain from participating in this question.

Hopefully that will settle the debate vis-a-vis this thread.
 
Putting aside all the statistics, here's a very simple and straightforward question to you all:
IF you were forced to choose between living in one or the other of these two countries, would you choose Pakistan or Bangladesh?

Note: The question is not about whether you prefer the USA, or UK, or India, or anywhere else other than the two countries mentioned.

So either choose between Pakistan and Bangladesh, or refrain from participating in this question.

Hopefully that will settle the debate vis-a-vis this thread.

I think both are similar in terms of living conditions. Both are third world.

However, I feel that Pakistan has more challenges than Bangladesh. Both Bangladesh and Pakistan have to deal with poverty but Pakistan has additional issues like Balochistan issue, Kashmir issue, higher national debt etc.

I mentioned on another thread that USA's war on terror has harmed Pakistan. Bangladesh thankfully didn't have to deal with any such conflict.
 
I think both are similar in terms of living conditions. Both are third world.

However, I feel that Pakistan has more challenges than Bangladesh. Both Bangladesh and Pakistan have to deal with poverty but Pakistan has additional issues like Balochistan issue, Kashmir issue, higher national debt etc.

I mentioned on another thread that USA's war on terror has harmed Pakistan. Bangladesh thankfully didn't have to deal with any such conflict.

Those issues are at the national level. The question is more about the day to living of the common man.
 
Those issues are at the national level. The question is more about the day to living of the common man.

I haven't been to BD, but I can speak based on the experience of people that have been to both countries in the recent past (i.e. the last 3-4 years). Every single one of them tell me is that Karachi is leaps and bounds ahead of Dhaka, and its not even close. I am not sure if Dhaka is supposed to be the best city Bangladesh has to offer, but for Pakistan we know that Karachi is at best second, and more likely third best city of Pakistan (however it is certainly the economic capital of Pakistan). This is not meant to put down BD or gloat about Pakistan, it's what people told me that have been to both countries.

The thing about Pakistan is that the GDP is largely unreported due to the black economy. The lower end of the estimates suggest 33% of the economy might be unreported, and on the higher end its 2x the size of the current GDP. That's why using these numbers for Pakistan is a bit pointless. Things like poverty rate are a better gauge since they don't depend on things to be reported extremely precisely.
 
The thing about Pakistan is that the GDP is largely unreported due to the black economy. The lower end of the estimates suggest 33% of the economy might be unreported, and on the higher end its 2x the size of the current GDP. That's why using these numbers for Pakistan is a bit pointless. Things like poverty rate are a better gauge since they don't depend on things to be reported extremely precisely.

Why is 33% economy unreported?

Just curious.
 
Why is 33% economy unreported?

Just curious.

Not sure where he’s getting the numbers from but there’s definitely an unreported economy due to the black market, government officers smuggling money, laundering etc
 
Putting aside all the statistics, here's a very simple and straightforward question to you all:
IF you were forced to choose between living in one or the other of these two countries, would you choose Pakistan or Bangladesh?

Based on the economic trajectory of the two countries from the economic data, I would obviously choose Bangladesh.

Also, I would definitely choose not to live in some parts of Pakistan where boys and girls may be burnt alive for the crime of singing. To the best of my knowledge, such barbarism doesn't exist in Bangladesh.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Kohistan_video_case
 
Not sure where he’s getting the numbers from but there’s definitely an unreported economy due to the black market, government officers smuggling money, laundering etc

It's mostly due to the fact that GDP is based on spending, and in Pakistan most of the spending is not recorded in any official records. You go buy fruits from thalay wala, or buy grocery from a corner shop, almost none of those stores will report that spending and therefore that spending is not counted in the GDP. These examples are very crude examples but it gives you an idea.
 
Just by its very nature, the people that run the black economy would want to keep it hidden.

It's mostly due to the fact that GDP is based on spending, and in Pakistan most of the spending is not recorded in any official records. You go buy fruits from thalay wala, or buy grocery from a corner shop, almost none of those stores will report that spending and therefore that spending is not counted in the GDP. These examples are very crude examples but it gives you an idea.

I see. Makes sense.

But, that is how many people buy in Bangladesh too. I think you can find black markets in all south Asian countries.
 
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Pakistan has one advantage and that is it has bigger landmass. They can build more infrastructures. Bangladesh is like a tiny dot and it is immensely overpopulated.
 
I see. Makes sense.

But, that is how many people buy in Bangladesh too. I think you can find black markets in all south Asian countries.

Probably not as much under reporting though. Shops, businesses, individuals all make an extra effort to under report. Most everyone I know under reports. In the past this used to be because no one trusted the government with their money. Now it’s because no one wants to lose money.

There’s also corruption. There are many government officers drawing a modest salary on paper but who own lots and lots of land. A lot of money is kept in cash or jewelry in people’s houses so their bank statements don’t reflect the amount accurately. Same goes for some army officers although to a lesser extent.

Then there is mafia money. All of this being said though, I doubt it accumulates to 33%. Significant no doubt but 33% is a bit high, so again maybe [MENTION=2984]ahsan17[/MENTION] can explain in more detail where he is getting his statistics from
 
I will also add that it’s shameful we are making excuses for our low GDP by pointing at black money rather than accepting that we as a nation have been stupid enough to vote the Bhuttos and Sharifs into power back to back all the way since ZA Bhutto in 1971. Aside from the military rule we haven’t had any other government since then.

If anyone is to blame, it is the people giving some of the most shamelessly corrupt people in the world multiple terms... you’d think we as a nation would learn. But sadly, no.
 
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The thing about Pakistan is that the GDP is largely unreported due to the black economy. The lower end of the estimates suggest 33% of the economy might be unreported, and on the higher end its 2x the size of the current GDP. That's why using these numbers for Pakistan is a bit pointless.

Unreported income exists in all economies. When I tip a waitress 25% in cash in the US it won’t be reported unless she declares the income.

The thing that can’t be fudged is the development of modern industries and the composition of exports.

https://www.thedailystar.net/business/news/made-bangladesh-refrigerators-dominate-market-1808239?amp
 
I will also add that it’s shameful we are making excuses for our low GDP by pointing at black money rather than accepting that we as a nation have been stupid enough to vote the Bhuttos and Sharifs into power back to back all the way since ZA Bhutto in 1971. Aside from the military rule we haven’t had any other government since then.

If anyone is to blame, it is the people giving some of the most shamelessly corrupt people in the world multiple terms... you’d think we as a nation would learn. But sadly, no.
You seriously think corruption is a really big issue?

I would mostly blame political instability
 
Dhaka, Bangladesh - At least 20 journalists in Bangladesh have been charged or arrested under the controversial Digital Security Act (DSA) in the past month, raising concerns about free speech in the South Asian nation.

A number of journalists have been arrested for social media posts critical of the government or reporting on the government's handling of the coronavirus pandemic.

Nearly 60 cases have been filed against more than 100 people, including 22 journalists, under the DSA this year until May 6, according to a study by Article 19, a UK-based human rights body.

Senior journalist Shafiqul Islam Kajol disappeared on March 10, a day after a politician from the governing Awami League party filed a criminal defamation case against him for publishing "false, offensive, illegally obtained and defamatory" content on Facebook.

A governing party legislator, Saifuzzaman Shikor, filed a defamation case against Kajol, a photographer and editor of the biweekly Pakkhakal magazine, and 31 others, accusing them of linking him to escort services run from a hotel.

Kajol mysteriously turned up in police custody 53 days later on India-Bangladesh border.

He has been slapped with three cases under the DSA, a law rights bodies have described as "draconian". Police have registered a fourth case against Kajol for "trespassing" into his own country.

If punished, he faces seven years in jail.

Another top editor, Motiur Rahman Chowdhury, was also charged in the same case.

'A prisoner of conscience'
Amnesty International said Kajol was detained for exercising his right to freedom of expression. "Shafiqul Islam Kajol is a prisoner of conscience and must be released immediately and unconditionally," the rights body said in a statement released on May 6.

Monorom Polok, Kajol's son, has pleaded for his father's release. "My father still hasn't got the chance to appeal in front of a court as the courts are now shut due to COVID -19 lockdown," Polok told Al Jazeera.

"Out of humanity and out of kindness, we appeal to our government to consider my father's pr-existing health conditions and his mental state and immediately release him and drop all charges against him," he said.

Journalists filing reports critical of the government's measures to contain the spread of the coronavirus also seemed to have been targeted.

On May 6, at least 11 people, including a cartoonist, two journalists, and a writer, were charged with "spreading rumors and carrying out anti-government activities".

Swedish-Bangladeshi journalist Tasneem Khalil, US-based journalist Shahed Alam and blogger Asif Mohiuddin also have cases against them under DSA.

On the same day, Didarul Islam Bhuiyan, a member of a politico-civic organization, Rashtrachinta, was arrested for a Facebook post.

"My husband was not involved in any criminal acts, but he was picked up by plain-clothes people who identified themselves as members of Rapid Action Battalion (RAB)," Dilshan Ara, wife of Bhuiyan, told Al Jazeera.

"He is innocent, who merely posted some write-ups on social media criticising the corruption in the relief distribution process; we all have that right to expression under the constitution.

"We want his immediate release, he may get exposed to coronavirus inside the jail."

Police defend action
Police officials have defended the cases against journalists.

Masudur Rahman, Dhaka Metro Police deputy commissioner media, told Al Jazeera that cases filed on May 6 against 11 people, including journalists, and Bhuiyan were filed by paramilitary RAB for social media postings.

He affirmed that the police would investigate the matter in accordance with the law. "However, it will be up to the court to decide their fate in the end. All of them have been sent to Keranigonj central jail, pending a court hearing," Rahman told Al Jazeera.

Rights activists have expressed grave concern over the rising number of cases being filed against journalists and critics of the government. They say the DSA law is being used to "gag media and freedom of expression".

"We are alarmed by nature and procedure followed by authorities to prosecute people in some of the cases under The Digital Security Act (DSA)," Saad Hammadi, South Asia campaigner for Amnesty International, told Al Jazeera.

"When a police official's justification for taking a DSA case against someone is based on only the fact that a ruling party leader is aggrieved as opposed to determining the necessity and proportion of the actions, it severely compromises the country's commitment to promote and protect people's right to freedom of expression," he said.

The UN High Commissioner for Human Rights has called on Bangladesh to urgently revise the DSA to ensure that it is in line with international human rights laws.

Rising cases against journalists
More than 1,000 cases have been filed in Bangladesh under the DSA since it was implemented in 2018.

In the last two months, journalists have become more vulnerable, with many media outlets announcing lay-offs due to COVID-19 pandemic that has infected 25,121 and killed 370 people in the country of 160 million.

A group of eminent citizens and journalists unions have called for the release of jailed media workers.

"Digital Security Act can be useful against those who commit cybercrimes, but it should not be used against journalists and media persons," Farida Yeasmin, general secretary of the Bangladesh National Press Club, told Al Jazeera.

The Bangladesh Editors' Council (Sampadak Parishad) has also expressed grave concern over the recent cases against journalists.

"No concern is being shown over the merit of the complaints before making arrests," the Editors' Council said in a statement.

Last month, Reporters Without Borders published a report that at least nine journalists had been physically attacked and six face charges under the DSA for collecting or publishing news on misappropriation of relief materials.

The Paris-based media watchdog ranks Bangladesh 150 out of 180 countries in its 2019 World Press Freedom Index, a four-point drop from its 2018 ranking.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020...aw-gag-media-free-speech-200520204441863.html
 
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