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Best 12 Test match innings by a batsmen overseas or away from home?

Harsh Thakor

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Best test match innings by a batsmen overseas ranked in order of merit.

1.Stan Mcabe's 232 at Trent Bridge in 1938

2.Gary Sobers 254 at Melbourne in 1972

3.Neil Harvey 151 n.o in 1950 at Durban

4.Gordon Greenidge 214 n.o at Lords

5.Rahul Dravid 233 at Adelaide in 2003-04

6.Sunil Gavaskar 221 at Oval in 1979

7.Saed Anwar 188 at Kolkata in 1999

8.Asif Iqbal 146 not out at the Oval in 1967

9.Viv Richards 232 at Nottingham in 1976

10.Sachin Tendulkar 114 at Perth in 1991-92

11.Brian Lara 277 at Sydney in 1992-93

12 .Graham Gooch 153 at Kingston in 1981




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2.
 
It’s almost blasphemy not to include Tendulkar’s 169 vs SA at Cape Town in 1996 and 122 at Edgbaston earlier that year against England.

His 149 against a rampaging Steyn in 2011 also deserves a mention.
 
Clarke’s 151 against SA on a green top was also a fabulous innings.
 
It’s almost blasphemy not to include Tendulkar’s 169 vs SA at Cape Town in 1996 and 122 at Edgbaston earlier that year against England.

His 149 against a rampaging Steyn in 2011 also deserves a mention.

Very Sorry sir would make top25 but cant include everyone.Which should I leave out?See my best 25 innings of all sir posted some days ago without fail .Anway great selections.
 
I would include kamran Akmals hundreds against India in Karachi after irfan pathan took a hatrick
 
What about rahane's hundred at Lord's in one of the most difficult conditions
 
Salim Malik 99 in Headingely on green seaming wicket 1992 I think.
 
Best test match innings by a batsmen overseas ranked in order of merit.

1.Stan Mcabe's 232 at Trent Bridge in 1938

2.Gary Sobers 254 at Melbourne in 1972

3.Neil Harvey 151 n.o in 1950 at Durban

4.Gordon Greenidge 214 n.o at Lords

5.Rahul Dravid 233 at Adelaide in 2003-04

6.Sunil Gavaskar 221 at Oval in 1979

7.Saed Anwar 188 at Kolkata in 1999

8.Asif Iqbal 146 not out at the Oval in 1967

9.Viv Richards 232 at Nottingham in 1976

10.Sachin Tendulkar 114 at Perth in 1991-92

11.Brian Lara 277 at Sydney in 1992-93

12 .Graham Gooch 153 at Kingston in 1981




7



2.


Some great choices, but I can’t take the first 2.

McCabe’s 232 indeed was a good innings, but I won’t put it even in top 25, for the following reasons -
1. Scores of that game was
ENG 658/8d
AUS 411 & 427/6d
You can’t get a better batting wicket than that

2. ENG’s bowling lineup was among their weakest in that era - 5 bowlers used were
Farnes
Hammond (opened the bowling😩)
Sinfield (his only Test)
Doug Wight &
Verity

3. Verity was injured and didn’t come to bowl before 115 overs. In total he bowled 7’3 overs in that innings & took the last wicket - Stan McCabe

That innings is hyped to the moon by British media for its SR - around 87, and because Bradman failed in that innings; but overall just a great double hundred, nothing else. Sehwag’s double in SRL in that wicket, against that attack was faaaaar better, just one example - even if we don’t consider the relative quality of cricket in modern era & pre WW2 era.



Sobers’s 254 wasn’t in a Test, but I take your point.

Still, that innings was blown out of proportion because it was Gary Sobers; and Ian Chappel’s ego was hurt so much that he kept glorifying that innings to normalize a point that AUS lost & his bowlers became rug.

I wrote it somewhere - why, even had it been a Test match, it shouldn’t come in top 10.

1. Look at the Aussie bowling - apart from 23 years old DK, hardly any name.
Massie, Walters, Watson, Jenner
O’keeffe, Stackpole, Greg

Only other name you can mention is Massise, who had nothing in career apart from that 16 wicket debut. In fact he was on his way to decline by that MCG game & lost his place in WA team within a year.

Others are more or less....


2. DK was over worked. He bowled 17, 8 ball overs in 1st innings; then around 12 by the time Sobers came - that’s over 38, 6 balls over from the only quality fast bowler before Sobers started his innings.

A great innings, but would have been just another good double had it not been Sir Gary. He looked more shining, in an era when the next all-rounder after him was a fight between Intekhab, Trevor Bailey, Ramakant Desai, Peter Pollock .....
 
Of those I have seen:

Clarke 151 vs SA
Pietersen 186 vs India
Sehwag 201 in SL
Dravid 233 vs Aus
Dravid 76 vs NZ in 2002 greentop series
YK 218 vs England
Inzamam 92 vs SA
Sangakkara 156 vs NZ
 
Some great choices, but I can’t take the first 2.

McCabe’s 232 indeed was a good innings, but I won’t put it even in top 25, for the following reasons -
1. Scores of that game was
ENG 658/8d
AUS 411 & 427/6d
You can’t get a better batting wicket than that

2. ENG’s bowling lineup was among their weakest in that era - 5 bowlers used were
Farnes
Hammond (opened the bowling😩)
Sinfield (his only Test)
Doug Wight &
Verity

3. Verity was injured and didn’t come to bowl before 115 overs. In total he bowled 7’3 overs in that innings & took the last wicket - Stan McCabe

That innings is hyped to the moon by British media for its SR - around 87, and because Bradman failed in that innings; but overall just a great double hundred, nothing else. Sehwag’s double in SRL in that wicket, against that attack was faaaaar better, just one example - even if we don’t consider the relative quality of cricket in modern era & pre WW2 era.



Sobers’s 254 wasn’t in a Test, but I take your point.

Still, that innings was blown out of proportion because it was Gary Sobers; and Ian Chappel’s ego was hurt so much that he kept glorifying that innings to normalize a point that AUS lost & his bowlers became rug.

I wrote it somewhere - why, even had it been a Test match, it shouldn’t come in top 10.

1. Look at the Aussie bowling - apart from 23 years old DK, hardly any name.
Massie, Walters, Watson, Jenner
O’keeffe, Stackpole, Greg

Only other name you can mention is Massise, who had nothing in career apart from that 16 wicket debut. In fact he was on his way to decline by that MCG game & lost his place in WA team within a year.

Others are more or less....


2. DK was over worked. He bowled 17, 8 ball overs in 1st innings; then around 12 by the time Sobers came - that’s over 38, 6 balls over from the only quality fast bowler before Sobers started his innings.

A great innings, but would have been just another good double had it not been Sir Gary. He looked more shining, in an era when the next all-rounder after him was a fight between Intekhab, Trevor Bailey, Ramakant Desai, Peter Pollock .....

You were born before 1938?? :murali
 
You were born before 1938?? :murali

You don’t need to be born before 1938 to provide the information listed here - a little click in CricInfo is enough. Obviously, someone first has to know where the info is, may be even how to click .....😜
 
One of the most underrated inning was played by Dean Jones in tied test.
 
Of those I have seen:

Clarke 151 vs SA
Pietersen 186 vs India
Sehwag 201 in SL
Dravid 233 vs Aus
Dravid 76 vs NZ in 2002 greentop series
YK 218 vs England
Inzamam 92 vs SA
Sangakkara 156 vs NZ

1st 3 superb choices sir.Clarke 151 particularly and Sehwag 201.
 
Some great choices, but I canÂ’t take the first 2.

McCabeÂ’s 232 indeed was a good innings, but I wonÂ’t put it even in top 25, for the following reasons -
1. Scores of that game was
ENG 658/8d
AUS 411 & 427/6d
You canÂ’t get a better batting wicket than that

2. ENGÂ’s bowling lineup was among their weakest in that era - 5 bowlers used were
Farnes
Hammond (opened the bowling)
Sinfield (his only Test)
Doug Wight &
Verity

3. Verity was injured and didnÂ’t come to bowl before 115 overs. In total he bowled 7Â’3 overs in that innings & took the last wicket - Stan McCabe

That innings is hyped to the moon by British media for its SR - around 87, and because Bradman failed in that innings; but overall just a great double hundred, nothing else. SehwagÂ’s double in SRL in that wicket, against that attack was faaaaar better, just one example - even if we donÂ’t consider the relative quality of cricket in modern era & pre WW2 era.



SobersÂ’s 254 wasnÂ’t in a Test, but I take your point.

Still, that innings was blown out of proportion because it was Gary Sobers; and Ian ChappelÂ’s ego was hurt so much that he kept glorifying that innings to normalize a point that AUS lost & his bowlers became rug.

I wrote it somewhere - why, even had it been a Test match, it shouldnÂ’t come in top 10.

1. Look at the Aussie bowling - apart from 23 years old DK, hardly any name.
Massie, Walters, Watson, Jenner
OÂ’keeffe, Stackpole, Greg

Only other name you can mention is Massise, who had nothing in career apart from that 16 wicket debut. In fact he was on his way to decline by that MCG game & lost his place in WA team within a year.

Others are more or less....


2. DK was over worked. He bowled 17, 8 ball overs in 1st innings; then around 12 by the time Sobers came - thatÂ’s over 38, 6 balls over from the only quality fast bowler before Sobers started his innings.

A great innings, but would have been just another good double had it not been Sir Gary. He looked more shining, in an era when the next all-rounder after him was a fight between Intekhab, Trevor Bailey, Ramakant Desai, Peter Pollock .....

I disagree about Sobers 254.Look at the state of the game and how other great contemporaries fared.The audacity of strokeplay was breath taking and range of strokes traversed regions rarely done.Not for nothing did Bradman rate it as the best he ever saw in Australia.


Considering his era Mcabe's innings was that of a genius when even Bradman could not counter-attack the bowling.Remember helmets were unavailable and the fact that Australia were in the doldrums.We have to respect the era and Bradman's view who ranked it at the very top.

Can you say that in the best innings of Lara,Tendulkar or Viv Richards they only dominated express pace bowlers?Count the percentage of runs even Lara ,Sachin and Viv scored against slower bowlers in their best innings.
 
An over the hill Tendulkar against a fiery Steyn in South Africa in 2011.
Tendulkar 241 in Sydney 2003 when we almost won the series.
 
Vengsarkar's 98* against SL in the series that India lost.
Indian batsmen were having tough time facing SL bowlers in SL .
 
I disagree about Sobers 254.Look at the state of the game and how other great contemporaries fared.The audacity of strokeplay was breath taking and range of strokes traversed regions rarely done.Not for nothing did Bradman rate it as the best he ever saw in Australia.


Considering his era Mcabe's innings was that of a genius when even Bradman could not counter-attack the bowling.Remember helmets were unavailable and the fact that Australia were in the doldrums.We have to respect the era and Bradman's view who ranked it at the very top.

Can you say that in the best innings of Lara,Tendulkar or Viv Richards they only dominated express pace bowlers?Count the percentage of runs even Lara ,Sachin and Viv scored against slower bowlers in their best innings.

I have explained the issue with McCabe's innings. I don't judge quality of cricket in different era for such discussions (hence, you'll always see me picking JB Hobbs, Trumper, Bradman, Syd Barnes, Kieth Miller ....... in such hypothetical teams). But, even if we consider the then context of 1938, on 3 factors I discarded that rankings -

1. That was an absolute batting belter. I read lot about uncovered wickets, which is blown out of proportion by "golden era", since that's one aspect we can replicate now, but do you understand that uncovered wicket had a positive as well - it made wickets "sticky" after rain, but it also bonded wicket far better than recent days. Once the wicket is rolled after rain (next morning or start of next innings), it actually is fresh again. Imagine these guys batting against Kumble on Day 5 Indian tracks without any water for 5 days!!!!

2. That English attack was the worst for them in between the years of 2 great wars. Had he not been killed in WW2, may be, may be Ken Farnes could have been an English great, but that's it. Hammond wasn't a FC quality opening pacer - he opened. Reg Sinfield was right arm slow medium, and he debuted as 38 years young. Doug Wright had a career bowling average of ~40, being specialist bowler.

3. Only quality bowler was Verity, who didn't bowl more than 7'3 overs and came to bowl after 100+ overs. Compare this to BC Lara's 213 at Kingston against that AUS attack, on a wicket where that AUS batting couldn't manage 450 in combined innings ........

Regarding the point on Lara, SRT, or Viv - I think they did dominate both spinners and express pacers; it'll take lots of time to post some. But, regarding Bradman's failure to master - that's one innings; very next innings after following on, he did score 144*, therefore I guess he did counter the bowling, just got out cheap in 1st innings (if 51 is considered cheap).

Finally, the helmet issue - now we'll have to consider something quantifiable, not subjective. If Lara, Viv or SRT or Ponting could bat in an era, when BBC's commentators exclaim - "... here comes Harold Larwood, England's champion fast bowler, bowling at an express pace of 70 miles per hour ......." - I am sure they won't have missed even gloves or pad much, let alone helmet. Cricket was joke than bro - just like 1936 Wimbledon Champion Fred Perry is almost as great as Pete Sampras ..... Joke, that too a silly one.

British media glorifies "golden era" of cricket because their supremacy ended with WW2 - apart from Botham, how many English cricketers would make their all time 15, debuted after 1960s? What Bradman thinks about player of his era - if I put my comments on that, I won't be able to remain respectful to the greatest batsman ever, let's not go there.

Regarding Sober's innings - first of all, it wasn't a Test innings, rather a FC innings. The state of the game was very much even, actually in favor of Sobers - World XI trailed by 100 or so, and Sobers came at 147/3 or so, when DK Lillee had finished his 2nd spell and rest bowlers were rags with a 35+ overs (48+ with 6 ball's over) old ball with out the slightest skills of reverse swing & Terry Jenner being prime spinner.

Stroke play was breath taking and that I'll always give to Sir Gary - he did batting and practiced his golf swing together; and he (& Kanhai) batted like that in an era when best batsmen were Hanif, Barrington, Boycott, Hazare, Simpson, Cowdrey ....... (check their RR). But still, only for aesthetics, you can't put so much value on an innings, which was not even a Test match; in that regard some of Azhar (uddin), Zaheer & Gower's innings will also come into equation. I am sure you have seen Zaheer's 274 against a far better attack (minus DK), if you are to judge it on stroke play only.

It indeed might be best innings in AUS that Bradman was impressed, which again only his personal opinion. Sobers, in his book, 20 years back (a comparison of his 1966 UK touring team vs Lloyd's 1984 team), picked David Holford over Malcolm Marshall for his leg spin & all-round ability ...... that doesn't make Marshall sh!t and Holford the 2nd Sobers. I'll keep telling - everything that Sobers touched was blown out of proportion - even that 6 SIX over; Malcolm Nash was a medium pacer, who was bowling experimental leg-spin, made a mistake on his choice of batsman on Swansea ground, one of the smallest in County circuits; still, some of the balls he bowled were beyond sh!t.

Your list needs lots of checking bro - just one example, of all his doubles, you have picked probably his least significant one. Check BC Lara against Murali in 2001 or 226 at Adelaide at the age of 36, or his 202 at Jo'burg ...... these are epics, you could have added his 196 against SAF or 182 at Adelaide as well. Had he played those in 1930s, by now someone would have got Noble price in English literature ..........
 
Sorry how are Sachin's 114 and Dravid 233 great, There were three other centurions in Perth and Ponting scored more than Dravid in Adaleide.

Very bad list I need to examine further but not good at all.
 
Sorry how are Sachin's 114 and Dravid 233 great, There were three other centurions in Perth and Ponting scored more than Dravid in Adaleide.

Very bad list I need to examine further but not good at all.

Don't like any innings in list? You do not assess the circumstances in which Dravid scored his 233 or when Gavaskar scored 221.Dravids knock had much no impact in turning a certain defeat into a victory.Like to know your answer.
 
I will only include the innings that I have seen:

1. Kevin Pietersen 186 vs India at Mumbai - 2012
2. Ricky Ponting 156 vs England at Old Trafford - 2005
3. Rahul Dravid 148 vs England at Headingley - 2002
4. Sachin Tendulkar 169 vs South Africa at Cape Town - 1997
5. Michael Clarke 161* vs South Africa at Cape Town - 2014 (with a broken effin shoulder !)
6. Saeed Anwar 188* vs India at Kolkata - 1999
7. Michael Vaughan 183 vs Australia at Sydney - 2003
8. Brian Lara 226 vs Australia at Adelaide - 2005
9. Younis Khan 267 vs India at Bengaluru - 2005
10. Virender Sehwag 201 vs Sri Lanka at Galle - 2008
 
Don't like any innings in list? You do not assess the circumstances in which Dravid scored his 233 or when Gavaskar scored 221.Dravids knock had much no impact in turning a certain defeat into a victory.Like to know your answer.

I don't think so, Laxman 148 played equal if not more important role in that win and that came against a very mediocre Aussie attack on very very flat pitch.

Sachin 114 is good for a teenager but it was nothing special in terms of context of great innings.

Gavaskar's 221 would have made it if not those 10 runs and draw.

Your list is totally wrong.
 
I don't think so, Laxman 148 played equal if not more important role in that win and that came against a very mediocre Aussie attack on very very flat pitch.

Sachin 114 is good for a teenager but it was nothing special in terms of context of great innings.

Gavaskar's 221 would have made it if not those 10 runs and draw.

Your list is totally wrong.

Not even innings of Greenidge and Lara?Or Anwar?But for bad umpiring Gavaskar would have eon India the Oval test of 1979.Whst is your list?
 
I will only include the innings that I have seen:

1. Kevin Pietersen 186 vs India at Mumbai - 2012
2. Ricky Ponting 156 vs England at Old Trafford - 2005
3. Rahul Dravid 148 vs England at Headingley - 2002
4. Sachin Tendulkar 169 vs South Africa at Cape Town - 1997
5. Michael Clarke 161* vs South Africa at Cape Town - 2014 (with a broken effin shoulder !)
6. Saeed Anwar 188* vs India at Kolkata - 1999
7. Michael Vaughan 183 vs Australia at Sydney - 2003
8. Brian Lara 226 vs Australia at Adelaide - 2005
9. Younis Khan 267 vs India at Bengaluru - 2005
10. Virender Sehwag 201 vs Sri Lanka at Galle - 2008

I forgot two supreme knocks for some mystifying reason. List updated.

1. Kevin Pietersen 186 vs India at Mumbai - 2012
2. Azhar Mahmood 132 vs South Africa at Durban - 1998
3. Ricky Ponting 156 vs England at Old Trafford - 2005
4. Rahul Dravid 148 vs England at Headingley - 2002
5. Sachin Tendulkar 169 vs South Africa at Cape Town - 1997
6. Michael Clarke 161* vs South Africa at Cape Town - 2014 (with a broken effin shoulder !)
7. Saeed Anwar 188* vs India at Kolkata - 1999
8. Graeme Smith 154* vs England at Edgbaston - 2008
9. Michael Vaughan 183 vs Australia at Sydney - 2003
10. Brian Lara 226 vs Australia at Adelaide - 2005
 
Not even innings of Greenidge and Lara?Or Anwar?But for bad umpiring Gavaskar would have eon India the Oval test of 1979.Whst is your list?

History does not take umpiring into account,.

Greendige 221 came against a very ordinary England bowling, they were thumped 10-0 in span of a year.

I would rate Amarnath's twin knocks against lethal WI in 1983 Bridgetown nasty pitch more superior than half of your list.

Lara's 277 would not make my cut, Gooch's 153 would be top of my list.Sehwag's 201 would defintely make my cut.

I will make list later but sorry your list has too many good knocks but not many great ones.
 
Sachin 114 is good for a teenager but it was nothing special in terms of context of great innings.

Ian Chappell rates that as the 4th best test innings he has ever seen in his life.

If you are looking for context, there is a video on YT where he talks about the context of this innings and why it is so great.
 
Ian Chappell rates that as the 4th best test innings he has ever seen in his life.

If you are looking for context, there is a video on YT where he talks about the context of this innings and why it is so great.

Sachin Tendulkar 114 v Australia, Perth- 'Incredible for an 18-year-old' it was highly incredible for 18 yr old but he no where says it is greatest ever knock.
 
Sachin Tendulkar 114 v Australia, Perth- 'Incredible for an 18-year-old' it was highly incredible for 18 yr old but he no where says it is greatest ever knock.

Who said anything about greatest innings ever?

But that was Chappell's list of the 11 greatest test innings according to him and he put Tendulkar's 114 at Perth at number 4 on that list.

And you said the innings was "nothing special in term of context".

Well you just heard the context from Chappell himself. .
 
Who said anything about greatest innings ever?

But that was Chappell's list of the 11 greatest test innings according to him and he put Tendulkar's 114 at Perth at number 4 on that list.

And you said the innings was "nothing special in term of context".

Well you just heard the context from Chappell himself. .

I heard this long time back, Chappell only talks about knock about 18 year old and he does not talk about match at all. So it is not come under greatest knocks in history of game at all.In the context of the game it is nothing special at all too.
 
Javed Miandad scored two hundreds against the ATG West indies bowling attack in 1988 when they would annihilate all and sundry. The first was a match winning hundred against Ambrose, Walsh, Patterson and Winston Benjamin. The second was a match saving 4th innings hundred against Marshall, Ambrose, Walsh and Benjamin. Pakistan drew that series 1-1 in the Caribbean and Miandad deserves immense credit for it. It's so so unfortunate that there is no video of that remarkable test series between two absolutely fantastic sides.
 
I have explained the issue with McCabe's innings. I don't judge quality of cricket in different era for such discussions (hence, you'll always see me picking JB Hobbs, Trumper, Bradman, Syd Barnes, Kieth Miller ....... in such hypothetical teams). But, even if we consider the then context of 1938, on 3 factors I discarded that rankings -

1. That was an absolute batting belter. I read lot about uncovered wickets, which is blown out of proportion by "golden era", since that's one aspect we can replicate now, but do you understand that uncovered wicket had a positive as well - it made wickets "sticky" after rain, but it also bonded wicket far better than recent days. Once the wicket is rolled after rain (next morning or start of next innings), it actually is fresh again. Imagine these guys batting against Kumble on Day 5 Indian tracks without any water for 5 days!!!!

2. That English attack was the worst for them in between the years of 2 great wars. Had he not been killed in WW2, may be, may be Ken Farnes could have been an English great, but that's it. Hammond wasn't a FC quality opening pacer - he opened. Reg Sinfield was right arm slow medium, and he debuted as 38 years young. Doug Wright had a career bowling average of ~40, being specialist bowler.

3. Only quality bowler was Verity, who didn't bowl more than 7'3 overs and came to bowl after 100+ overs. Compare this to BC Lara's 213 at Kingston against that AUS attack, on a wicket where that AUS batting couldn't manage 450 in combined innings ........

Regarding the point on Lara, SRT, or Viv - I think they did dominate both spinners and express pacers; it'll take lots of time to post some. But, regarding Bradman's failure to master - that's one innings; very next innings after following on, he did score 144*, therefore I guess he did counter the bowling, just got out cheap in 1st innings (if 51 is considered cheap).

Finally, the helmet issue - now we'll have to consider something quantifiable, not subjective. If Lara, Viv or SRT or Ponting could bat in an era, when BBC's commentators exclaim - "... here comes Harold Larwood, England's champion fast bowler, bowling at an express pace of 70 miles per hour ......." - I am sure they won't have missed even gloves or pad much, let alone helmet. Cricket was joke than bro - just like 1936 Wimbledon Champion Fred Perry is almost as great as Pete Sampras ..... Joke, that too a silly one.

British media glorifies "golden era" of cricket because their supremacy ended with WW2 - apart from Botham, how many English cricketers would make their all time 15, debuted after 1960s? What Bradman thinks about player of his era - if I put my comments on that, I won't be able to remain respectful to the greatest batsman ever, let's not go there.

Regarding Sober's innings - first of all, it wasn't a Test innings, rather a FC innings. The state of the game was very much even, actually in favor of Sobers - World XI trailed by 100 or so, and Sobers came at 147/3 or so, when DK Lillee had finished his 2nd spell and rest bowlers were rags with a 35+ overs (48+ with 6 ball's over) old ball with out the slightest skills of reverse swing & Terry Jenner being prime spinner.

Stroke play was breath taking and that I'll always give to Sir Gary - he did batting and practiced his golf swing together; and he (& Kanhai) batted like that in an era when best batsmen were Hanif, Barrington, Boycott, Hazare, Simpson, Cowdrey ....... (check their RR). But still, only for aesthetics, you can't put so much value on an innings, which was not even a Test match; in that regard some of Azhar (uddin), Zaheer & Gower's innings will also come into equation. I am sure you have seen Zaheer's 274 against a far better attack (minus DK), if you are to judge it on stroke play only.

It indeed might be best innings in AUS that Bradman was impressed, which again only his personal opinion. Sobers, in his book, 20 years back (a comparison of his 1966 UK touring team vs Lloyd's 1984 team), picked David Holford over Malcolm Marshall for his leg spin & all-round ability ...... that doesn't make Marshall sh!t and Holford the 2nd Sobers. I'll keep telling - everything that Sobers touched was blown out of proportion - even that 6 SIX over; Malcolm Nash was a medium pacer, who was bowling experimental leg-spin, made a mistake on his choice of batsman on Swansea ground, one of the smallest in County circuits; still, some of the balls he bowled were beyond sh!t.

Your list needs lots of checking bro - just one example, of all his doubles, you have picked probably his least significant one. Check BC Lara against Murali in 2001 or 226 at Adelaide at the age of 36, or his 202 at Jo'burg ...... these are epics, you could have added his 196 against SAF or 182 at Adelaide as well. Had he played those in 1930s, by now someone would have got Noble price in English literature ..........


Tag me if you ever get a response to this from the dude. Iam afraid you aint going to get any further responses from him. Hit-and-run at its finest !
 
The myth of pre-1970 bowlers bowling fast is exposed by the fact that batsmen did not wear helmets regularly till the 1970s.

As necessity is the mother of invention, if the bowlers from the pre-1970s were genuinely quick, helmets would have been invented far earlier.

If batsmen start batting without helmets against genuine pace, you will see them get badly injured or even get killed on regular basis.

Hence, there are only two possibilities:

(a) all these Larwoods, Truemans, Barnes, Davidson etc. were 70 mph dibbly-dobby bowlers, which is why batsmen didn’t really feel the need to protect their heads from vicious bouncers and beamers.

(b) these bowlers were genuinely rapid, but the pitches were so slow that the bowl would lose a lot of pace and bounce after pitching. However, slow pitches won’t protect you from misdirected full-tosses and beamers.

(b) is very unlikely, so I will stick with (a). Genuine fast bowling started with the likes of Lillee and Thompson in the 1970s, and that is when the batsmen started to need protection and helmets became mainstream.
 
The myth of pre-1970 bowlers bowling fast is exposed by the fact that batsmen did not wear helmets regularly till the 1970s.

As necessity is the mother of invention, if the bowlers from the pre-1970s were genuinely quick, helmets would have been invented far earlier.

If batsmen start batting without helmets against genuine pace, you will see them get badly injured or even get killed on regular basis.

Hence, there are only two possibilities:

(a) all these Larwoods, Truemans, Barnes, Davidson etc. were 70 mph dibbly-dobby bowlers, which is why batsmen didn’t really feel the need to protect their heads from vicious bouncers and beamers.

(b) these bowlers were genuinely rapid, but the pitches were so slow that the bowl would lose a lot of pace and bounce after pitching. However, slow pitches won’t protect you from misdirected full-tosses and beamers.

(b) is very unlikely, so I will stick with (a). Genuine fast bowling started with the likes of Lillee and Thompson in the 1970s, and that is when the batsmen started to need protection and helmets became mainstream.

The truth is that a handful of the top tier fast bowlers were genuinely very quick (Larwood, Lindwall, Trueman) but uncovered pitches meant that medium pacers like Davidson/Fazal Mahmood and quick spinners like Barnes and Underwood were very effective. So in pure numbers there were more medium pacers

You can't praint all pre 1970s bowlers with the same brush either way. It is obvious watching old film that Trueman, Larwood and Lindwall had pace. Most other bowlers did not, since the conditions meant they didn't need pace.
 
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