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Best ODI number 3 in history?

Rana

Rana

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General discussion forum. I think without a doubt Babar is Pakistan’s best ODI number 3. Brilliant player and well done for achieving 5k ODI runs the quickest ever.

Overall, my number 1 ODI number 3 was Ricky Ponting. The guy was an absolute class act and a monster player of both pace and spin. Surreal fitness and game awareness. I rate him higher than Kohli personally, who I think is India’s GOAT ODI number 3 and no.2 from what I have seen in cricket.

From what I recall. Lara was batting mainly at number 4 for West Indies but I believe he has played a substantial amount of games for them at number 3 too. High quality player but I don’t think I would rate him higher than Ponting and Kohli.

The Ponting era was pretty much dominated by the brilliant teams of Australia and South Africa, for that matter I think Kallis deserves a special mention as he was the perfect number 3 batsman for them in this Era. He was definitely Ponting’s nemesis for this position in order to establish dominance in world cricket.

I would rate them in this order,

1. Ricky Ponting
2. Virat Kohli
3. Jacque Kallis
4. Brian Lara
5. Kumar Sangakara
6. Joe Root
7. Babar Azam
8. Kane Williamson
9. Steven Smith
10. Rahul Dravid

Thoughts?
[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] [MENTION=53290]Markhor[/MENTION] [MENTION=130037]Titan[/MENTION] [MENTION=147314]topspin[/MENTION] [MENTION=143714]Kroll[/MENTION] [MENTION=56933]ElRaja[/MENTION]
 
Great list. I think one could argue either way on Ponting vs Kohli.

I would add Viv Richards in the list as well. His stats at number 3 (and overall in ODIs) in a less batting friendly era were beyond exceptional. He was way ahead of everyone else during his time, which featured some high quality express bowlers.

Honourable mention: Zaheer Abbas, who was a fine ODI batsman. Averaged 45 at a strike rate of 85 in the similar era to Viv.

The four greatest ODI batsmen in the world are Viv, Kohli, Ponting and Tendulkar.
 
1- Viv Richard
2-Potings

Other were not that good or didn't play at # 3 consistently enough like Lara and Sangacara and Kallis . Babar, not even close to be in that list. What Rahul Dravid is doing in this list ???? Was a great test batter, not in ODI,s could not even make to India's playing 11.
 
moghul said:
1- Viv Richard
2-Potings

Other were not that good or didn't play at # 3 consistently enough like Lara and Sangacara and Kallis . Babar, not even close to be in that list. What Rahul Dravid is doing in this list ???? Was a great test batter, not in ODI,s could not even make to India's playing 11.
Click to expand...

Dravid has 10k ODI runs at an average close to 40. He played most of his games at number 3 for them. He was a solid batsman. This is just my opinion, you could argue that he shouldn’t be there tbf
 
Kohli for sure.

What sets him apart is that he is the only number three/top order batsman in ODI history who is also a great finisher.

He is Ponting + Bevan and Tendulkar + Dhoni rolled into one. No ODI top order batsman has shaped so many wins with his batting and been there until the end to see off the game.
 
topspin said:
Great list. I think one could argue either way on Ponting vs Kohli.

I would add Viv Richards in the list as well. His stats at number 3 (and overall in ODIs) in a less batting friendly era were beyond exceptional. He was way ahead of everyone else during his time, which featured some high quality express bowlers.

Honourable mention: Zaheer Abbas, who was a fine ODI batsman. Averaged 45 at a strike rate of 85 in the similar era to Viv.

The four greatest ODI batsmen in the world are Viv, Kohli, Ponting and Tendulkar.
Click to expand...

Tbh bro I’ve never seen Viv, Miandad and Zaheer…plus Border, Gooch, Crowe bat live so I can’t truly argue that they are better than what I have seen in terms of Ponting, Kallis, Lara and Kohli.

Those who have seen them play live can give you a better judgement. I don’t think referencing stats will do the job here.

However, from what I’ve read and heard, Viv was indeed the ultimate batsman of his era
 
One and two are solid, I might just err on the side of Kohli who has the special distinction of greatest ODI chaser.
 
Rana said:
Tbh bro I’ve never seen Viv, Miandad and Zaheer…plus Border, Gooch, Crowe bat live so I can’t truly argue that they are better than what I have seen in terms of Ponting, Kallis, Lara and Kohli.

Those who have seen them play live can give you a better judgement. I don’t think referencing stats will do the job here.

However, from what I’ve read and heard, Viv was indeed the ultimate batsman of his era
Click to expand...

I have a lot of respect for this type of judgement because what ends up happening is some misinformed ignoramus will end up saying so and so from an era of lower standard (for example 1930s) is better "because they have better average". I'm refraining from disclosing any real life examples because I know this thread will end up getting derailed from the old era hype brigade.

The Misbah vs Inzamam should also serve a lesson that you don't just look at stats at face value. Honestly I thought I heard it all :facepalm:
 
Last edited:
Rana said:
General discussion forum. I think without a doubt Babar is Pakistan’s best ODI number 3. Brilliant player and well done for achieving 5k ODI runs the quickest ever.

Overall, my number 1 ODI number 3 was Ricky Ponting. The guy was an absolute class act and a monster player of both pace and spin. Surreal fitness and game awareness. I rate him higher than Kohli personally, who I think is India’s GOAT ODI number 3 and no.2 from what I have seen in cricket.

From what I recall. Lara was batting mainly at number 4 for West Indies but I believe he has played a substantial amount of games for them at number 3 too. High quality player but I don’t think I would rate him higher than Ponting and Kohli.

The Ponting era was pretty much dominated by the brilliant teams of Australia and South Africa, for that matter I think Kallis deserves a special mention as he was the perfect number 3 batsman for them in this Era. He was definitely Ponting’s nemesis for this position in order to establish dominance in world cricket.

I would rate them in this order,

1. Ricky Ponting
2. Virat Kohli
3. Jacque Kallis
4. Brian Lara
5. Kumar Sangakara
6. Joe Root
7. Babar Azam
8. Kane Williamson
9. Steven Smith
10. Rahul Dravid

Thoughts?

[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] [MENTION=53290]Markhor[/MENTION] [MENTION=130037]Titan[/MENTION] [MENTION=147314]topspin[/MENTION] [MENTION=143714]Kroll[/MENTION] [MENTION=56933]ElRaja[/MENTION]
Click to expand...

the majority of modern ODIs are not pressure games, and in the last few years, rarely feature the best xi outside of ICC comps.

my top 3
viv
kohli
ponting

i say this because kohli and viv had this destructive side to their game which left opposition in tatters mentally, viv pips it because he has a hundred in an odi wc final. punter has massive accolades and a very long career.

babar simply doesn't have the sample size, however, hes on the right track and he can overcome that if he plays a pivotal role in the upcoming world cup. if he can guide pak to a win with a meaningful WC, like 500 runs id say hed be be very firmly on his way to ending his career as one of the top 3 of all time.
 
One thing about Lara was,

The guy fired about the crowed whenever he was on song and on a mission to bat for his team. I don’t think I’ve seen a player fire up the crowed like he used to when he played his best shots. Absolute Stone Cold Steve Austin level pops! Goosebumps
 
Min 2000 runs at no.3 batting position
[table=class: grid, align: center]
[tr][td]Player [/td][td]Span [/td][td]Mat [/td][td]Runs [/td][td]Avg [/td][td]SR [/td][td]100 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Babar Azam [/td][td]2016-2023 [/td][td]81 [/td][td]4547 [/td][td]64.95 [/td][td]89.59 [/td][td]18 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]V Kohli [/td][td]2009-2023 [/td][td]212 [/td][td]10777 [/td][td]60.2 [/td][td]94.7 [/td][td]39 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]IVA Richards [/td][td]1976-1986 [/td][td]52 [/td][td]2418 [/td][td]57.57 [/td][td]86.88 [/td][td]5 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]F du Plessis [/td][td]2012-2019 [/td][td]82 [/td][td]3941 [/td][td]55.5 [/td][td]88.34 [/td][td]11 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]SPD Smith [/td][td]2014-2023 [/td][td]80 [/td][td]3765 [/td][td]54.56 [/td][td]86.71 [/td][td]11 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]JE Root [/td][td]2013-2022 [/td][td]93 [/td][td]3971 [/td][td]54.39 [/td][td]89.57 [/td][td]11 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Mohammad Yousuf [/td][td]2000-2010 [/td][td]45 [/td][td]2042 [/td][td]53.73 [/td][td]79.05 [/td][td]5 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]KS Williamson [/td][td]2010-2023 [/td][td]129 [/td][td]5802 [/td][td]50.89 [/td][td]81.38 [/td][td]11 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]IJL Trott [/td][td]2009-2013 [/td][td]63 [/td][td]2585 [/td][td]49.71 [/td][td]77.97 [/td][td]4 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]BC Lara [/td][td]1992-2007 [/td][td]109 [/td][td]4447 [/td][td]45.84 [/td][td]85.98 [/td][td]12 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]JH Kallis [/td][td]1997-2014 [/td][td]204 [/td][td]7774 [/td][td]45.72 [/td][td]73.74 [/td][td]13 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Zaheer Abbas [/td][td]1974-1985 [/td][td]48 [/td][td]2009 [/td][td]45.65 [/td][td]85.74 [/td][td]6 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]KC Sangakkara [/td][td]2001-2015 [/td][td]243 [/td][td]9747 [/td][td]44.71 [/td][td]80.5 [/td][td]18 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]GA Hick [/td][td]1991-2001 [/td][td]58 [/td][td]2182 [/td][td]44.53 [/td][td]75.26 [/td][td]5 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]DM Jones [/td][td]1985-1994 [/td][td]132 [/td][td]5100 [/td][td]43.58 [/td][td]72.07 [/td][td]7 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]RT Ponting [/td][td]1995-2012 [/td][td]335 [/td][td]12662 [/td][td]42.48 [/td][td]80.73 [/td][td]29 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Mohammad Hafeez [/td][td]2005-2017 [/td][td]56 [/td][td]2051 [/td][td]41.02 [/td][td]82.1 [/td][td]7 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Inzamam-ul-Haq [/td][td]1991-2003 [/td][td]61 [/td][td]2033 [/td][td]39.09 [/td][td]68.54 [/td][td]2 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]R Dravid [/td][td]1996-2011 [/td][td]112 [/td][td]4000 [/td][td]38.83 [/td][td]69.6 [/td][td]7 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]MS Atapattu [/td][td]1996-2007 [/td][td]122 [/td][td]4142 [/td][td]38.35 [/td][td]66.33 [/td][td]4 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Rahmat Shah [/td][td]2014-2022 [/td][td]74 [/td][td]2635 [/td][td]37.11 [/td][td]70.19 [/td][td]4 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]M Azharuddin [/td][td]1985-2000 [/td][td]68 [/td][td]2036 [/td][td]36.35 [/td][td]68.18 [/td][td]2 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]RB Richardson [/td][td]1983-1995 [/td][td]131 [/td][td]3984 [/td][td]35.25 [/td][td]64.89 [/td][td]4 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]RR Sarwan [/td][td]2001-2013 [/td][td]86 [/td][td]2531 [/td][td]35.15 [/td][td]70.58 [/td][td]0 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]SP Fleming [/td][td]1995-2007 [/td][td]69 [/td][td]2118 [/td][td]34.16 [/td][td]68.87 [/td][td]0 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Ijaz Ahmed [/td][td]1987-2000 [/td][td]74 [/td][td]2144 [/td][td]31.52 [/td][td]78.44 [/td][td]6 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]AP Gurusinha [/td][td]1986-1996 [/td][td]111 [/td][td]3282 [/td][td]30.96 [/td][td]60.26 [/td][td]1 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Younis Khan [/td][td]2000-2015 [/td][td]125 [/td][td]3526 [/td][td]30.13 [/td][td]72.47 [/td][td]6 [/td][/tr]
[/table]

Min 500 runs at no.3 batting position in World Cup
[table=class: grid, align: center]
[tr][td]Player [/td][td]Span [/td][td]Mat [/td][td]Runs [/td][td]Avg [/td][td]SR [/td][td]100 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Shakib Al Hasan (BAN) [/td][td]2019-2019 [/td][td]8 [/td][td]606 [/td][td]86.57 [/td][td]96.03 [/td][td]2 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]IVA Richards (WI) [/td][td]1979-1983 [/td][td]11 [/td][td]584 [/td][td]83.42 [/td][td]78.38 [/td][td]2 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]SPD Smith (AUS) [/td][td]2015-2019 [/td][td]8 [/td][td]557 [/td][td]79.57 [/td][td]89.69 [/td][td]1 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]KC Sangakkara (SL) [/td][td]2003-2015 [/td][td]23 [/td][td]1174 [/td][td]73.37 [/td][td]89.14 [/td][td]5 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]F du Plessis (SA) [/td][td]2015-2019 [/td][td]13 [/td][td]762 [/td][td]69.27 [/td][td]87.88 [/td][td]2 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]KS Williamson (NZ) [/td][td]2015-2019 [/td][td]19 [/td][td]812 [/td][td]58 [/td][td]75.81 [/td][td]2 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]V Kohli (IND) [/td][td]2011-2019 [/td][td]18 [/td][td]807 [/td][td]53.8 [/td][td]87.62 [/td][td]1 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]JH Kallis (SA) [/td][td]1999-2011 [/td][td]17 [/td][td]691 [/td][td]53.15 [/td][td]80.25 [/td][td]1 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]RT Ponting (AUS) [/td][td]1996-2011 [/td][td]42 [/td][td]1723 [/td][td]46.56 [/td][td]79.73 [/td][td]5 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]BC Lara (WI) [/td][td]1996-2007 [/td][td]13 [/td][td]535 [/td][td]44.58 [/td][td]92.4 [/td][td]2 [/td][/tr]
[/table]
 
Solid list.

It has to be Virat Kohli. Extraordinary consistency along with the ability to perform under pressure even in big chases sets him apart. His mental strength, ability to shift gears as per the requirements and intentionally increasing his shot range as the game demands while piercing the gaps has been just exceptional to say the least.
In 9 knockout matches as of 2021 where Kohli scored 20+ India won 6 out of them and in 6 where he scored less than 20 India was able to win just 2. His presence and demeaner at a crease keeps the opposition on the backfoot as they know he can change the game and momentum any time. There have been many quality players but, he is one of a kind.

As a Pak fan have to talk about Babar. Babar Azman in my opinion is really good as well as it stands but, as his career progresses further he needs to produce more knocks in big tournaments, matches and deciders where he changes the games. Its not like he hasn't but, considering his capability needs to produce more of what we can call Babar effect in big games. He is 28 so many more years to do so.
 
Excellent list of players. But it is really between Richards, Kohli and Ponting.

For me it's Kohli. For his mental strength, ability to handle pressure, number of gears, and what sets him ahead of other two, finishing.
 
In olden battles there would be an initial small scale skirmish on the battlefire before the real thing began.

In ODI cricket I feel thats what the job of a number 3 is. When he arrives at the crease you need to get the feeling that now the actual battle is beginning.

There are only two players who I feel really capture that - Ponting and Kohli. Kohli in particular, when he at the crease you feel that now the game is on. The opposition, the fans and the commentary team know that the match hinges on this wicket.

Thats why I think he is the best number 3. When he marches to the crease then its on!
 
Rana said:
General discussion forum. I think without a doubt Babar is Pakistan’s best ODI number 3. Brilliant player and well done for achieving 5k ODI runs the quickest ever.

Overall, my number 1 ODI number 3 was Ricky Ponting. The guy was an absolute class act and a monster player of both pace and spin. Surreal fitness and game awareness. I rate him higher than Kohli personally, who I think is India’s GOAT ODI number 3 and no.2 from what I have seen in cricket.

From what I recall. Lara was batting mainly at number 4 for West Indies but I believe he has played a substantial amount of games for them at number 3 too. High quality player but I don’t think I would rate him higher than Ponting and Kohli.

The Ponting era was pretty much dominated by the brilliant teams of Australia and South Africa, for that matter I think Kallis deserves a special mention as he was the perfect number 3 batsman for them in this Era. He was definitely Ponting’s nemesis for this position in order to establish dominance in world cricket.

I would rate them in this order,

1. Ricky Ponting
2. Virat Kohli
3. Jacque Kallis
4. Brian Lara
5. Kumar Sangakara
6. Joe Root
7. Babar Azam
8. Kane Williamson
9. Steven Smith
10. Rahul Dravid

Thoughts?

[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] [MENTION=53290]Markhor[/MENTION] [MENTION=130037]Titan[/MENTION] [MENTION=147314]topspin[/MENTION] [MENTION=143714]Kroll[/MENTION] [MENTION=56933]ElRaja[/MENTION]
Click to expand...

How could you miss viv richards!
 
Jazx said:
How could you miss viv richards!
Click to expand...

Boss man. I mentioned this earlier

I haven’t honestly seen Viv bat so I personally cannot claim he is better than Ponting or Kohli. I just can’t
 
Rana said:
Boss man. I mentioned this earlier

I haven’t honestly seen Viv bat so I personally cannot claim he is better than Ponting or Kohli. I just can’t
Click to expand...
Hmmm makes sense.
Even i didn't watched him live, only saw the highlights and clippings. But as per the stats and the impact he had in that era, he should be in top 3 in ODIs.
 
jeetu said:
Min 2000 runs at no.3 batting position
[table=class: grid, align: center]
[tr][td]Player [/td][td]Span [/td][td]Mat [/td][td]Runs [/td][td]Avg [/td][td]SR [/td][td]100 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Babar Azam [/td][td]2016-2023 [/td][td]81 [/td][td]4547 [/td][td]64.95 [/td][td]89.59 [/td][td]18 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]V Kohli [/td][td]2009-2023 [/td][td]212 [/td][td]10777 [/td][td]60.2 [/td][td]94.7 [/td][td]39 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]IVA Richards [/td][td]1976-1986 [/td][td]52 [/td][td]2418 [/td][td]57.57 [/td][td]86.88 [/td][td]5 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]F du Plessis [/td][td]2012-2019 [/td][td]82 [/td][td]3941 [/td][td]55.5 [/td][td]88.34 [/td][td]11 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]SPD Smith [/td][td]2014-2023 [/td][td]80 [/td][td]3765 [/td][td]54.56 [/td][td]86.71 [/td][td]11 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]JE Root [/td][td]2013-2022 [/td][td]93 [/td][td]3971 [/td][td]54.39 [/td][td]89.57 [/td][td]11 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Mohammad Yousuf [/td][td]2000-2010 [/td][td]45 [/td][td]2042 [/td][td]53.73 [/td][td]79.05 [/td][td]5 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]KS Williamson [/td][td]2010-2023 [/td][td]129 [/td][td]5802 [/td][td]50.89 [/td][td]81.38 [/td][td]11 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]IJL Trott [/td][td]2009-2013 [/td][td]63 [/td][td]2585 [/td][td]49.71 [/td][td]77.97 [/td][td]4 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]BC Lara [/td][td]1992-2007 [/td][td]109 [/td][td]4447 [/td][td]45.84 [/td][td]85.98 [/td][td]12 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]JH Kallis [/td][td]1997-2014 [/td][td]204 [/td][td]7774 [/td][td]45.72 [/td][td]73.74 [/td][td]13 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Zaheer Abbas [/td][td]1974-1985 [/td][td]48 [/td][td]2009 [/td][td]45.65 [/td][td]85.74 [/td][td]6 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]KC Sangakkara [/td][td]2001-2015 [/td][td]243 [/td][td]9747 [/td][td]44.71 [/td][td]80.5 [/td][td]18 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]GA Hick [/td][td]1991-2001 [/td][td]58 [/td][td]2182 [/td][td]44.53 [/td][td]75.26 [/td][td]5 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]DM Jones [/td][td]1985-1994 [/td][td]132 [/td][td]5100 [/td][td]43.58 [/td][td]72.07 [/td][td]7 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]RT Ponting [/td][td]1995-2012 [/td][td]335 [/td][td]12662 [/td][td]42.48 [/td][td]80.73 [/td][td]29 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Mohammad Hafeez [/td][td]2005-2017 [/td][td]56 [/td][td]2051 [/td][td]41.02 [/td][td]82.1 [/td][td]7 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Inzamam-ul-Haq [/td][td]1991-2003 [/td][td]61 [/td][td]2033 [/td][td]39.09 [/td][td]68.54 [/td][td]2 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]R Dravid [/td][td]1996-2011 [/td][td]112 [/td][td]4000 [/td][td]38.83 [/td][td]69.6 [/td][td]7 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]MS Atapattu [/td][td]1996-2007 [/td][td]122 [/td][td]4142 [/td][td]38.35 [/td][td]66.33 [/td][td]4 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Rahmat Shah [/td][td]2014-2022 [/td][td]74 [/td][td]2635 [/td][td]37.11 [/td][td]70.19 [/td][td]4 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]M Azharuddin [/td][td]1985-2000 [/td][td]68 [/td][td]2036 [/td][td]36.35 [/td][td]68.18 [/td][td]2 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]RB Richardson [/td][td]1983-1995 [/td][td]131 [/td][td]3984 [/td][td]35.25 [/td][td]64.89 [/td][td]4 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]RR Sarwan [/td][td]2001-2013 [/td][td]86 [/td][td]2531 [/td][td]35.15 [/td][td]70.58 [/td][td]0 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]SP Fleming [/td][td]1995-2007 [/td][td]69 [/td][td]2118 [/td][td]34.16 [/td][td]68.87 [/td][td]0 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Ijaz Ahmed [/td][td]1987-2000 [/td][td]74 [/td][td]2144 [/td][td]31.52 [/td][td]78.44 [/td][td]6 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]AP Gurusinha [/td][td]1986-1996 [/td][td]111 [/td][td]3282 [/td][td]30.96 [/td][td]60.26 [/td][td]1 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Younis Khan [/td][td]2000-2015 [/td][td]125 [/td][td]3526 [/td][td]30.13 [/td][td]72.47 [/td][td]6 [/td][/tr]
[/table]

Min 500 runs at no.3 batting position in World Cup
[table=class: grid, align: center]
[tr][td]Player [/td][td]Span [/td][td]Mat [/td][td]Runs [/td][td]Avg [/td][td]SR [/td][td]100 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Shakib Al Hasan (BAN) [/td][td]2019-2019 [/td][td]8 [/td][td]606 [/td][td]86.57 [/td][td]96.03 [/td][td]2 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]IVA Richards (WI) [/td][td]1979-1983 [/td][td]11 [/td][td]584 [/td][td]83.42 [/td][td]78.38 [/td][td]2 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]SPD Smith (AUS) [/td][td]2015-2019 [/td][td]8 [/td][td]557 [/td][td]79.57 [/td][td]89.69 [/td][td]1 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]KC Sangakkara (SL) [/td][td]2003-2015 [/td][td]23 [/td][td]1174 [/td][td]73.37 [/td][td]89.14 [/td][td]5 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]F du Plessis (SA) [/td][td]2015-2019 [/td][td]13 [/td][td]762 [/td][td]69.27 [/td][td]87.88 [/td][td]2 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]KS Williamson (NZ) [/td][td]2015-2019 [/td][td]19 [/td][td]812 [/td][td]58 [/td][td]75.81 [/td][td]2 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]V Kohli (IND) [/td][td]2011-2019 [/td][td]18 [/td][td]807 [/td][td]53.8 [/td][td]87.62 [/td][td]1 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]JH Kallis (SA) [/td][td]1999-2011 [/td][td]17 [/td][td]691 [/td][td]53.15 [/td][td]80.25 [/td][td]1 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]RT Ponting (AUS) [/td][td]1996-2011 [/td][td]42 [/td][td]1723 [/td][td]46.56 [/td][td]79.73 [/td][td]5 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]BC Lara (WI) [/td][td]1996-2007 [/td][td]13 [/td][td]535 [/td][td]44.58 [/td][td]92.4 [/td][td]2 [/td][/tr]
[/table]
Click to expand...

Punter wins it in the World Cup list. His runs contributed in 3 World Cup wins
 
Viv
Ponting
Kohli
Lara
Rest of them were either too inconsistent, stat padders or soft accumulators for the most part including Babar. Dravid wasn't an exceptional ODI talent,but he made the most of his limitations & had a really respectable career. I genuinely feel had he been non-indian he would have been respected much more. Kallis imo is one of the most overrated & overhyped batsmen of all time. A terrific test batsman but an absolute selfish & impactless ODI batsman who only piled useless runs after runs over the years. Root & Smith have similar issues. Both had an exceptional world cup(SS 15, JR 19) where they led their team to glory but just couldn't take their career to the next level. Babar needs to make such statement in an icc tournament which he still hasn't been able to do.
 
In terms of stats and match winning innings, nobody comes close to Kohli.

But in terms of box-office, Lara stands undisputed. He's the GOAT of box-office batsmen. Never seen anyone like him.
 
i will go with Sangakara and Hashim Amla both batsman were renowned for his elegance and consistency at No. 3. Complete players in all formats and had a remarkable ability to adapt to different conditions.
 
Cricket Warrior said:
i will go with Sangakara and Hashim Amla both batsman were renowned for his elegance and consistency at No. 3. Complete players in all formats and had a remarkable ability to adapt to different conditions.
Click to expand...
They were very good but they couldn’t lead their sides to silverware like Ponting did 3 world cups in a row.
 
jeetu said:
Min 2000 runs at no.3 batting position
Player Span Mat Runs Avg SR 100
Babar Azam 2016-2023 81 4547 64.95 89.59 18
V Kohli 2009-2023 212 10777 60.2 94.7 39
IVA Richards 1976-1986 52 2418 57.57 86.88 5
F du Plessis 2012-2019 82 3941 55.5 88.34 11
SPD Smith 2014-2023 80 3765 54.56 86.71 11
JE Root 2013-2022 93 3971 54.39 89.57 11
Mohammad Yousuf 2000-2010 45 2042 53.73 79.05 5
KS Williamson 2010-2023 129 5802 50.89 81.38 11
IJL Trott 2009-2013 63 2585 49.71 77.97 4
BC Lara 1992-2007 109 4447 45.84 85.98 12
JH Kallis 1997-2014 204 7774 45.72 73.74 13
Zaheer Abbas 1974-1985 48 2009 45.65 85.74 6
KC Sangakkara 2001-2015 243 9747 44.71 80.5 18
GA Hick 1991-2001 58 2182 44.53 75.26 5
DM Jones 1985-1994 132 5100 43.58 72.07 7
RT Ponting 1995-2012 335 12662 42.48 80.73 29
Mohammad Hafeez 2005-2017 56 2051 41.02 82.1 7
Inzamam-ul-Haq 1991-2003 61 2033 39.09 68.54 2
R Dravid 1996-2011 112 4000 38.83 69.6 7
MS Atapattu 1996-2007 122 4142 38.35 66.33 4
Rahmat Shah 2014-2022 74 2635 37.11 70.19 4
M Azharuddin 1985-2000 68 2036 36.35 68.18 2
RB Richardson 1983-1995 131 3984 35.25 64.89 4
RR Sarwan 2001-2013 86 2531 35.15 70.58 0
SP Fleming 1995-2007 69 2118 34.16 68.87 0
Ijaz Ahmed 1987-2000 74 2144 31.52 78.44 6
AP Gurusinha 1986-1996 111 3282 30.96 60.26 1
Younis Khan 2000-2015 125 3526 30.13 72.47 6

Min 500 runs at no.3 batting position in World Cup
Player Span Mat Runs Avg SR 100
Shakib Al Hasan (BAN) 2019-2019 8 606 86.57 96.03 2
IVA Richards (WI) 1979-1983 11 584 83.42 78.38 2
SPD Smith (AUS) 2015-2019 8 557 79.57 89.69 1
KC Sangakkara (SL) 2003-2015 23 1174 73.37 89.14 5
F du Plessis (SA) 2015-2019 13 762 69.27 87.88 2
KS Williamson (NZ) 2015-2019 19 812 58 75.81 2
V Kohli (IND) 2011-2019 18 807 53.8 87.62 1
JH Kallis (SA) 1999-2011 17 691 53.15 80.25 1
RT Ponting (AUS) 1996-2011 42 1723 46.56 79.73 5
BC Lara (WI) 1996-2007 13 535 44.58 92.4 2
Click to expand...
Ponting arguably the GOAT no. 3 in World cups. 42 matches averaging 45.6 in an era where he faced:

Akram
Waqar
Saqlain
Shoaib Akhtar
Pollock
Donald
Klusenar
Steyn
Morkel
Ntini
Vaas
Muralitharan
Herath
Vettori
Bond
Flintoff
Gough
Swann
Zaheer Khan
Irfan Pathan
Harbajhan
Kumble

Some of the world class ODI bowlers from this time period
 
Cricket Warrior said:
i will go with Sangakara and Hashim Amla both batsman were renowned for his elegance and consistency at No. 3. Complete players in all formats and had a remarkable ability to adapt to different conditions.
Click to expand...
Rana said:
They were very good but they couldn’t lead their sides to silverware like Ponting did 3 world cups in a row.
Click to expand...
Amla was opener, not 3 in ODIs.
 
My top 5 for #3 position in bilateral ODIs are :-

Kohli
Viv( he was more ideal no 4 than #3)
Ponting( benefited with an extremely strong team)
Lara
Babar
 
Although it's close between Viv Richards and Virat Kohli in my opinion. I would just slightly put Kohli ahead here because he has more experience playing in that particular position, while Sir Viv played at no. 3 and 4. More at no. 4.
 
Viv Richards.. The best. Far ahead of his era and the only batter who put genuine fear in bowlers mind and heart.
Kohli/Ponting are great too.. But Viv was just so destructive.
 
hoshiarpurexpress said:
Viv Richards.. The best. Far ahead of his era and the only batter who put genuine fear in bowlers mind and heart.
Kohli/Ponting are great too.. But Viv was just so destructive.
Click to expand...
I have never seen Viv play live as he retired before even I was born. But those Youtube videos and cricket classic shows on TV.. man Viv hit a mean ball. Crazy Destructive.. Couple of his innings in Australia where he took down Rodney Hogg and Lilee etc were exhilarating. Wish I had seen him play live.
 
Rana said:
General discussion forum. I think without a doubt Babar is Pakistan’s best ODI number 3. Brilliant player and well done for achieving 5k ODI runs the quickest ever.

Overall, my number 1 ODI number 3 was Ricky Ponting. The guy was an absolute class act and a monster player of both pace and spin. Surreal fitness and game awareness. I rate him higher than Kohli personally, who I think is India’s GOAT ODI number 3 and no.2 from what I have seen in cricket.

From what I recall. Lara was batting mainly at number 4 for West Indies but I believe he has played a substantial amount of games for them at number 3 too. High quality player but I don’t think I would rate him higher than Ponting and Kohli.

The Ponting era was pretty much dominated by the brilliant teams of Australia and South Africa, for that matter I think Kallis deserves a special mention as he was the perfect number 3 batsman for them in this Era. He was definitely Ponting’s nemesis for this position in order to establish dominance in world cricket.

I would rate them in this order,

1. Ricky Ponting
2. Virat Kohli
3. Jacque Kallis
4. Brian Lara
5. Kumar Sangakara
6. Joe Root
7. Babar Azam
8. Kane Williamson
9. Steven Smith
10. Rahul Dravid

Thoughts?

[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] [MENTION=53290]Markhor[/MENTION] [MENTION=130037]Titan[/MENTION] [MENTION=147314]topspin[/MENTION] [MENTION=143714]Kroll[/MENTION] [MENTION=56933]ElRaja[/MENTION]
Click to expand...

Steve Smith should be higher. Its unfair to compare him post 2021 self. In his prime 2014-2015, he avg 50+ and 96SR.

Pre 2021 he still avg 45+ and a 90+ SR.

The sr fall and Avg collapse is due to his miserable form post 2021.

His prime won a 2015 wc and he was as dominant as Ponting was in 2003.

At their absolute peaks Smith > Babar > Root.

Currently Root > Babar > Smith.

Smith was a washed up has been in odi after 2021. Australia carried him due to respect thats it.

(Im assuming you are comparing their primes not their overall careers, otherwise lara should not be that high either)

Lara was average post injury in odi. Before that he was the greatest backfoot odi player of all time.
 
Tough to decide between Viv and Kohli.

Both are World Cup winners, though Viv edges Kohli there for me because of his innings in the 1979 World Cup final, and the fact that he is a 2-time World Cup winner.

Kohli came up in a more batting-friendly era but his number of runs, average and performances in high-pressure run chases are incredible.

Viv was a pioneer/trail-blazer for ODI batting and was very much ahead of his time. Played some of the greatest attacks of all-time and and found great success against them all, with the exception of Pakistan. Also, to have a SR of 90 in that era is simply unbelievable.
 
Though those matches were not sanctioned ODIs, Viv was hugely successful in Kerry Packer's World Series Cricket aswell. May even have been one of the leading run-scorers. And West Indies won both those tournaments. The quality of cricket in those tournaments has always been regarded as very high.
 
ElRaja said:
the majority of modern ODIs are not pressure games, and in the last few years, rarely feature the best xi outside of ICC comps.

my top 3
viv
kohli
ponting

i say this because kohli and viv had this destructive side to their game which left opposition in tatters mentally, viv pips it because he has a hundred in an odi wc final. punter has massive accolades and a very long career.

babar simply doesn't have the sample size, however, hes on the right track and he can overcome that if he plays a pivotal role in the upcoming world cup. if he can guide pak to a win with a meaningful WC, like 500 runs id say hed be be very firmly on his way to ending his career as one of the top 3 of all time.
Click to expand...
As someone who has been following cricket since the 80s, I have not seen a better batsman than Viv - Stats do not do justice to his incredible talent.

Miandad was a special batter. Always came into bat with Pakistan in dire straits, 1-3 down for not many. Hence had to bat cautiously and consolidate in the beginning but he also had the ability to accelerate and play big shots when needed. A canny batsman, a master strike rotator who could nudge the ball into gaps all day long. As long as he was at the crease, no matter what the situation, Pakistan was always in the game.

Ponting, one of the best, also has a hundred in a WC Final. 140 vs India in 2003, to date the highest score in a WC Final. Literally the game was done and dusted at the halfway mark.

Kohli has a great ODI record + a master chaser and deserves to be among the top 3 ODI batsmen of all time.

Sachin also has a great record, though as a match winner Kohli pips him imo.
 
Only by mid 1980s people got the hold what ODI format was all about. West Indians even in tests played aggressive at times. West Indies as a team was ahead of time. I say Viv Richards hardly had any challenge. Each team had one good bowlers. That was pretty much it. That one bowler often finishes half the quota by the time Greenidge and Dessie see off. That is how they played back then. First 10 overs 30 to 35 runs. By the time Viv walks in he gets to face array of pie chuckers
 

jnaveen1980 said:
Only by mid 1980s people got the hold what ODI format was all about. West Indians even in tests played aggressive at times. West Indies as a team was ahead of time. I say Viv Richards hardly had any challenge. Each team had one good bowlers. That was pretty much it. That one bowler often finishes half the quota by the time Greenidge and Dessie see off. That is how they played back then. First 10 overs 30 to 35 runs. By the time Viv walks in he gets to face array of pie chuckers
Click to expand...
You need to watch more cricket!

There were some great bowlers during the 80s

 
I am oen of the biggest viv fan. I always adored him. Infact Most non-Indian icon in India was Viv Richards followed by David Gower.
 
When you say no.3 the only guy that comes up in everyones mind is Ponting. He owned that spot man. No.3 is the trademark Ponting position.

Because of him, teams tried to play their best players at no.3

Kohli came after. The trend of the best batter being at no.3 was by Ponting.

For me after Ponting, it was Sangakara. Without Sanga, Srilankas batting was nothing, and he would sneak away into the 40s with his wristy batting.

Plus Sanga was a keeper. Probably the best keeper to bat this high after Gilchrist
 
Major said:
When you say no.3 the only guy that comes up in everyones mind is Ponting. He owned that spot man. No.3 is the trademark Ponting position.

Because of him, teams tried to play their best players at no.3

Kohli came after. The trend of the best batter being at no.3 was by Ponting.

For me after Ponting, it was Sangakara. Without Sanga, Srilankas batting was nothing, and he would sneak away into the 40s with his wristy batting.

Plus Sanga was a keeper. Probably the best keeper to bat this high after Gilchrist
Click to expand...
Sanga is a better odi player then gilly as a batsmen.

However Gilly will be remembered more. He changed the way wicket keeper batters were perceived.

He also showed up during the most crucial stages in cups and any time he kicked off he was unbelievably dominant.

Sanga wasn't flashy. The issue with his innings were that while they were impressive, He'd often get to 100+ without having the audience even realise that he got their due to having a habit of dealing in 1's and 2's and occasionally hitting a boundary.

Nothing wrong with that but highlight package wise He'd often vanish. You'd have to watch him live to get the appeal.

Gilly had a better career and has better records. In terms of pure batting skill sanga is superior to gilly however. Talking about technique, footwork, reactions, timings and gap exploitation.

Gilly is better at lofted strokes though and has that aussie memorable innings aura around him.
 
P
mominsaigol said:
Sanga is a better odi player then gilly as a batsmen.

However Gilly will be remembered more. He changed the way wicket keeper batters were perceived.

He also showed up during the most crucial stages in cups and any time he kicked off he was unbelievably dominant.

Sanga wasn't flashy. The issue with his innings were that while they were impressive, He'd often get to 100+ without having the audience even realise that he got their due to having a habit of dealing in 1's and 2's and occasionally hitting a boundary.

Nothing wrong with that but highlight package wise He'd often vanish. You'd have to watch him live to get the appeal.

Gilly had a better career and has better records. In terms of pure batting skill sanga is superior to gilly however. Talking about technique, footwork, reactions, timings and gap exploitation.

Gilly is better at lofted strokes though and has that aussie memorable innings aura around him.
Click to expand...
exactly.

Sangakara's strike rotation was the best strike rotation one could watch. People will talk about oh look at xyzs cover drive for 4 and all that, but than Sanga knew how to get those singles and doubles. Being able to bat and get singles and doubles is one of the most difficult aspects of cricket.

And you are right, Sangakara would be busy with his running and single doubles, that before you know it the guy has scored a 50. Keeping wise, Sanga was also good, and would keep him second to Gilchrist as Gilly had a very jelly like body that made him look more atheletic. Dhoni is very over rated as a keeper....
 
mominsaigol said:
Sanga is a better odi player then gilly as a batsmen.

However Gilly will be remembered more. He changed the way wicket keeper batters were perceived.

He also showed up during the most crucial stages in cups and any time he kicked off he was unbelievably dominant.

Sanga wasn't flashy. The issue with his innings were that while they were impressive, He'd often get to 100+ without having the audience even realise that he got their due to having a habit of dealing in 1's and 2's and occasionally hitting a boundary.

Nothing wrong with that but highlight package wise He'd often vanish. You'd have to watch him live to get the appeal.

Gilly had a better career and has better records. In terms of pure batting skill sanga is superior to gilly however. Talking about technique, footwork, reactions, timings and gap exploitation.

Gilly is better at lofted strokes though and has that aussie memorable innings aura around him.
Click to expand...

Sanga was an elite ODI batter only for the last 3 years of his career.
 
Nikhil_cric said:
Sanga was an elite ODI batter only for the last 3 years of his career.
Click to expand...
Incorrect. Firstly not 3 years, 5 years.

If you look at his numbers from 2010-2015. You can clearly see its a 5 year peak.

Secondly he wasnt poor in his previous uears either.

2000, 2004 and 2006 were elite years as well. Infact 2004 is his 3rd best year and he played more matches then any one in that year. Over 27 odi's played.

He onoy had a somewhat 3 year form slump from 2007-2009. And 2001-2002.

He is a very very good batsmen.
 
jnaveen1980 said:
yea. Sanga had same average/strike rate as Laxman in 2000 lol 36/75. It is an insult to be put his name next to Viv.
Click to expand...
Do you see anyone putting his name nect to viv? Stick to watching IPL. Your cricketing knowledge is useless and based of cricinfo and howstatm
 
mominsaigol said:
Incorrect. Firstly not 3 years, 5 years.

If you look at his numbers from 2010-2015. You can clearly see its a 5 year peak.

Secondly he wasnt poor in his previous uears either.

2000, 2004 and 2006 were elite years as well. Infact 2004 is his 3rd best year and he played more matches then any one in that year. Over 27 odi's played.

He onoy had a somewhat 3 year form slump from 2007-2009. And 2001-2002.

He is a very very good batsmen.
Click to expand...
Look at his strike rate in 2010-2012. He was obviously a very good player.

But he wasn't an elite batter who could impact the game massively for most of his ODI career.

When they were playing together, Gilly was far more impactful. He was destructive in the powerplay and performed in every World Cup final etc.

Until 2013, Sanga was more of a stabiliser/accumulator - very good but not elite
 
Nikhil_cric said:
Look at his strike rate in 2010-2012. He was obviously a very good player.

But he wasn't an elite batter who could impact the game massively for most of his ODI career.

When they were playing together, Gilly was far more impactful. He was destructive in the powerplay and performed in every World Cup final etc.

Until 2013, Sanga was more of a stabiliser/accumulator - very good but not elite
Click to expand...
He was an accumulator much like Hashim Amla. These guys are clueless guys who have some favorites and they hype just for the sake. There is nobody will even bring his name when we talk about ATG in ODIs. As far as 3 goes there are only 3. Viv, Punter, Kohli. That's it.
 
jnaveen1980 said:
He was an accumulator much like Hashim Amla. These guys are clueless guys who have some favorites and they hype just for the sake. There is nobody will even bring his name when we talk about ATG in ODIs. As far as 3 goes there are only 3. Viv, Punter, Kohli. That's it.
Click to expand...

Amla used to score quick when he first became a regular in the ODI side and then became an accumulator as he got older.

Sanga was the opposite. The Sanga of 2013-2015 was a terrific ODI batsman. That guy kept getting better with age.
 
Nikhil_cric said:
Amla used to score quick when he first became a regular in the ODI side and then became an accumulator as he got older.

Sanga was the opposite. The Sanga of 2013-2015 was a terrific ODI batsman. That guy kept getting better with age.
Click to expand...

In that phase he averaged 59 at 91 strike rate

Country wise break up for that period. In Australia he made 107. Good. BUt that was the match where Australia made 376 where Big show made 102 in 53 balls. That was an absolute road pitch. He made 104 in 107. This is like Rahul Dravid's knocks in 2000s. He hardly stepped on the gas. Against SA did not play single game during this phase in SA. ALl at home

Screenshot-2025-08-06-123625.jpg
 
Fair point about gilly, but ofcourse moronic indians come to attack 🤦🏻🤦🏻.

No one mentioned samga next to Kohli, ponting or anyone else.

It was a seprate topic. Good god these idiots are annoying and a disgrace to this forumn.
 
Nikhil_cric said:
Look at his strike rate in 2010-2012. He was obviously a very good player.

But he wasn't an elite batter who could impact the game massively for most of his ODI career.

When they were playing together, Gilly was far more impactful. He was destructive in the powerplay and performed in every World Cup final etc.

Until 2013, Sanga was more of a stabiliser/accumulator - very good but not elite
Click to expand...
Brother, please read what I said.

I never said sanga is > Gilly now did I?

Please carefully read what I said when talking to @Major and read the whole para.

Ability wise sanga is > Gilly, gilly as a batter in terms of talent is = QDK not sanga.

But ability and natural talent means zilch if one never uses it to its fullest.

Gilly used his talent to his fullest and hence had a better career and overall is > in ranking.

Its similar to your arguments about saim ayub..in terms of natural talent he is >>> Fakhar but fakhar has had a better career and ranks > obviously since he literally won CT in his 2nd ever odi game.
 
mominsaigol said:
Brother, please read what I said.

I never said sanga is > Gilly now did I?

Please carefully read what I said when talking to @Major and read the whole para.

Ability wise sanga is > Gilly, gilly as a batter in terms of talent is = QDK not sanga.

But ability and natural talent means zilch if one never uses it to its fullest.

Gilly used his talent to his fullest and hence had a better career and overall is > in ranking.

Its similar to your arguments about saim ayub..in terms of natural talent he is >>> Fakhar but fakhar has had a better career and ranks > obviously since he literally won CT in his 2nd ever odi game.
Click to expand...

I was just using Gilly to contrast the relative lack of impact created by Sanga in ODIs for the most part.
 
Nikhil_cric said:
I was just using Gilly to contrast the relative lack of impact created by Sanga in ODIs for the most part.
Click to expand...
Bro obviously Sanga has lacked impact. My response was to @Major Not these indian hooligans.

I was referencing ability.

Saim Ayub is > Fakhar in natural reactions, Technique and footwork. So is babar azam.

Yet despite this saim ayub has had an extremely extremely medicore t20 and test career and his odi sample size is woefully small as compared to Fakhar who has possibly given Pakistan more memorable odi moments then any other Pakistani batsmen in history, Inzimam and Saeed Anwar included.

Not stating fakhar is better but its a fact that 210, 193 vs sa, 114 vs India in ct final, 123 of 74 vs Nz in 2023 chasing 400 are monster moments and damn near unforgettable

While saim's best feat is beating SA at home and A 2nd string Australia at home.

At this point if you ask who is better people will state Fakhar, but ability wise fakhar is a baseball superstar. His technique isnt the best and his stroke play is limited to him mostly being a slog sweep king but when he is onsong he somehow manages to do the impossible.

Saim and frankly no other Pakistani batter has replicated that.

Similarly Yousaf is > Inzi ability wise yet Inzi has had 200x the career that yousaf did and will be ranked >

De villers is better then Amla, but in international t20 he ironically ranks below him as he couldnt figure that particular format out.

That was my point.

I never said Sanga > Gilly the odi batsmen.
 
Mamoon said:
Kohli for sure.

What sets him apart is that he is the only number three/top order batsman in ODI history who is also a great finisher.

He is Ponting + Bevan and Tendulkar + Dhoni rolled into one. No ODI top order batsman has shaped so many wins with his batting and been there until the end to see off the game.
Click to expand...
I don't agree with you Mamoon. Zaheer Abbas is a better batsman than Kholi in ODIs adjusting for eras.
 
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