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Best talent identifier in Pakistan?

SarfiBabarHaris

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I dont see anyone after Imran Khan who I can say was special at identifying talent.

Who do you think is good at identifying talent in Pakistan after Imran?
 
With due respect to legends like Waqar I think he is the worst at identifying and backing the right talented players in Pakisan.
 
There's nobody who always makes the right calls or backs the right people.

For example, almost everyone drools over Ahmed Shehzad, who is worse than Imran Farhat as an opener.

Though - Abdul Qadir, Amir Sohail do sometimes make good calls.
 
There's nobody who always makes the right calls or backs the right people.

For example, almost everyone drools over Ahmed Shehzad, who is worse than Imran Farhat as an opener.

Though - Abdul Qadir, Amir Sohail do sometimes make good calls.

Ahmed Shehzad is a mediocre player and I am not even talking about his attitude etc. Never understand why he gets so much backing from every quarter.
 
you need to nurture talent after identifying them and that is what imran used to do, we don't have anymore captains like him.
 
Reading the posts here, you'd think the best judges post here - [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] and [MENTION=21215]srh[/MENTION] in-particular. :))
 
We need to get over this "talent" rhetoric. The likes of Wasim and Waqar were once-in-a-generation type talents and although Imran played a big role in their development, he was also lucky to have them at his disposal. Imran wouldn't have been able to turn the likes of Rahat and Anwar into world beaters. We can see that by the fact that there were quite a few mediocre players during Imran's era and he was not able to do much about them.

If we continue to bank on people spotting the next legend on the streets, we will not go anywhere and that's why we have made marginal progress as a cricketing nation in the last 20-25 years. While other teams have learned how to produce better cricketers, we keep harping about the abundance of talent at our disposal. 1/50 cricketers are born, the other 49 are made. Obviously, their respective natural abilities are influential in determining how far they can go, but that alone will not take them anywhere.

It is not a surprise that Pakistan produces far less batsmen compared to other teams. After all, it is the most methodical skill in cricket, developed after years of training and coaching.
 
We need to get over this "talent" rhetoric. The likes of Wasim and Waqar were once-in-a-generation type talents and although Imran played a big role in their development, he was also lucky to have them at his disposal. Imran wouldn't have been able to turn the likes of Rahat and Anwar into world beaters. We can see that by the fact that there were quite a few mediocre players during Imran's era and he was not able to do much about them.

If we continue to bank on people spotting the next legend on the streets, we will not go anywhere and that's why we have made marginal progress as a cricketing nation in the last 20-25 years. While other teams have learned how to produce better cricketers, we keep harping about the abundance of talent at our disposal. 1/50 cricketers are born, the other 49 are made. Obviously, their respective natural abilities are influential in determining how far they can go, but that alone will not take them anywhere.

It is not a surprise that Pakistan produces far less batsmen compared to other teams. After all, it is the most methodical skill in cricket, developed after years of training and coaching.

Very good post, Also to add on, The poor level of coaching in domestics can actually screw up batsman technique and method.
 
Barely any even exist as 'talent' alone won't take you anywhere unless you don't develop a 'hard working' attitude which is not the culture in Pakistan.
 
No we need able people to identity and back players with ability.
Pakistan suffered in Waqar era as he persisted and backed players like Wahab and Rahat when we had better bowlers in domestics. He recommended Azhar when anyone who follow domestic, has basic captaincy knowledge and look beyond looks , English and press conferences can tell that Azhar is not captaincy material and Sarfraz is by far the best captain in Pakistan.

Producing players is as important but whats the point of having able players when you dont get the backing due to various reasons.

P.S: Even with a lot of problems we have players like Sharjeel, Babar, Haris, Shadab, Sarfraz, Hasan, Amir, Fakhar etc who have good enough ability in their respective departments and can be polished to become world's best. And I am just talking about international players here. If we include domestic we can easily have a pool of 20 players even right now to move forward with.
[MENTION=138980]TalentSpotterPk[/MENTION] what do you think?
 
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We need to get over this "talent" rhetoric. The likes of Wasim and Waqar were once-in-a-generation type talents and although Imran played a big role in their development, he was also lucky to have them at his disposal. Imran wouldn't have been able to turn the likes of Rahat and Anwar into world beaters. We can see that by the fact that there were quite a few mediocre players during Imran's era and he was not able to do much about them.

If we continue to bank on people spotting the next legend on the streets, we will not go anywhere and that's why we have made marginal progress as a cricketing nation in the last 20-25 years. While other teams have learned how to produce better cricketers, we keep harping about the abundance of talent at our disposal. 1/50 cricketers are born, the other 49 are made. Obviously, their respective natural abilities are influential in determining how far they can go, but that alone will not take them anywhere.

It is not a surprise that Pakistan produces far less batsmen compared to other teams. After all, it is the most methodical skill in cricket, developed after years of training and coaching.

That's True Imran had his share of duds. Like Zakir Khan, Mohsin Kamal and Mansoor Akhtar (who was a Batsman) Imran was convinced of their talent but it never panned out. Imran Tried very hard and gave plenty of chances to Zakir Khan but he could not justify a spot in the side. There were others from that area like Tahir Naqash, Sikander Bakht & who can forget Saleem Jaffer. Although Saleem Jaffer was not a total failure (he just cost us the world cup semi final in 1987 ).
 
Salahuddin Sallu was the absolute worst at identifying talent. Thank god PCB got rid of that guy.
 
We need to get over this "talent" rhetoric. The likes of Wasim and Waqar were once-in-a-generation type talents and although Imran played a big role in their development, he was also lucky to have them at his disposal. Imran wouldn't have been able to turn the likes of Rahat and Anwar into world beaters. We can see that by the fact that there were quite a few mediocre players during Imran's era and he was not able to do much about them.

If we continue to bank on people spotting the next legend on the streets, we will not go anywhere and that's why we have made marginal progress as a cricketing nation in the last 20-25 years. While other teams have learned how to produce better cricketers, we keep harping about the abundance of talent at our disposal. 1/50 cricketers are born, the other 49 are made. Obviously, their respective natural abilities are influential in determining how far they can go, but that alone will not take them anywhere.

It is not a surprise that Pakistan produces far less batsmen compared to other teams. After all, it is the most methodical skill in cricket, developed after years of training and coaching.

Talent does matter, but it's not the only factor. For instance, if you give same opportunity to BD and Afghanistan, I bet Afghans will develop lot faster, they already have better quality seamers, which is hardest skill in Cricket. Fast bowling is the premium skill and will remain as long as Cricket is played. India is still struggling to create top quality fast bowler, despite bucket load of money, one of the reason maybe they don't have culture of fast bowling, apart from other things...Sort of like Arabs, who have lot of money but not the culture that can be innovative... You look at South America in Soccer, Brazil and ARG are still producing the best talented players, although they have developed pockets of better facilities, but they are filled with guys from street many times, you cannot get that kind of passion and skill just by forging alone...Europe is still not able to create that kind of passion in a more professional society, As they say "Great Entrepreneurs come from distress families", they are exposed to very high level of stress at early age, that gives them mental edge (think of Dhoni), that kind of stuff is hard emulate for rich kids...

I have visited India back in 1986, at that time even the veneer of Pakistan was way better than India. There was too much poverty in India, at that time I have only lived in Pakistan, but kind of poverty I saw in India was at different level, large scale slumps I had never seen them before. Over the period, we have regressed a lot, not just in Cricket but as a society, having structure and professionalism is generally part of ecosystem, it is very hard to build in isolation. Its kind of pipe dream that we expect Pakistan to be as professional, as Athletic as AUS with everything else same or worse regressing in society.

One of the Thing that does not help Pakistan to be more professional is lack of quality cricket. We play too much cricket with third rate teams (WI, SL, BD, NZ), we hardly play against AUS/ENG/IND/SA. Where as India play top teams all the time. Batting has lot to do with exposure and experience. Team like Pakistan,NZ,SL would have hard time to produce top batters, because lack of quality cricket. India became good, because their economic power meant top teams want to play with them.

Pakistan is still a very emotional team, it always have been. We fans are like that too. Professional teams are generally not emotional as a whole, they do have emotionally charged player. This works both ways for us, when we are emotionally charge, we are hard to beat... To convert that to a more professional team, people and society has to change too...For now this major win will spawn new era of Pakistan Cricket, Bar is getting higher, Young guys are aware of modern day Cricket.
 
Apart from obvious names, I think in his younger days Sallauddin Sallu had great eyes to find young talents. More than talent, I think Imran looked for personality traits & attitude. He dropped likes of Haroon Rashid, Rizwanuzzaman, Mohsin Kamal, Zakir Khan, Ehtesham ... but backed Rambo Raja. He liked honest triers & hard workers, rather than raw talent only. Both Saeed & Sohail emerged at similar time & Saeed got 1st chance under Imran, but later Sohail made his hard work count.
 
Hard to say but I think Miandad and Imran were the ones who picked out Wasim and Inzi respectively. Besides that I don't think any cricketer has as such been picked off the street. All the other cricketers have gone through the system.

Btw do selectors have scouts to rely on who watch the domestic games or is it based on stats and a few games the selectors watch?
 
Hard to say but I think Miandad and Imran were the ones who picked out Wasim and Inzi respectively. Besides that I don't think any cricketer has as such been picked off the street. All the other cricketers have gone through the system.

Btw do selectors have scouts to rely on who watch the domestic games or is it based on stats and a few games the selectors watch?

Inzi played full 4-6 seasons in domestics, before he joined PAK nets (you can easily check that in his profile), therefore it's not that he was picked from streets. Wasim's 2nd FC was probably for PAK A, therefore he was indeed unknown.

Picking players like Wasim has little credit because such cases happens once in a generation & won't click most times; rather better skill is identifying young talents from thousands playing in a flawed system where benchmarks & KPI are meaningless.
 
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Wasim and Waqar were not chosen by Imran, they were the by-product of cricket boom and domestic setup. He only gave approval. He chose Amir Sohail, who was good, but not ATG stuff.

Mudassar Nazar is one, he spotted Amir at very early age, followed by Wasim Akram.
 
We need to get over this "talent" rhetoric. The likes of Wasim and Waqar were once-in-a-generation type talents and although Imran played a big role in their development, he was also lucky to have them at his disposal. Imran wouldn't have been able to turn the likes of Rahat and Anwar into world beaters. We can see that by the fact that there were quite a few mediocre players during Imran's era and he was not able to do much about them.

If we continue to bank on people spotting the next legend on the streets, we will not go anywhere and that's why we have made marginal progress as a cricketing nation in the last 20-25 years. While other teams have learned how to produce better cricketers, we keep harping about the abundance of talent at our disposal. 1/50 cricketers are born, the other 49 are made. Obviously, their respective natural abilities are influential in determining how far they can go, but that alone will not take them anywhere.

It is not a surprise that Pakistan produces far less batsmen compared to other teams. After all, it is the most methodical skill in cricket, developed after years of training and coaching.

Spotting talent is very important. If it was just a case of developing through years of training and coaching, then you could literally grab anyone of the street and train them to bat like Kohli, Root, etc.
What's lacking in Pakistan is a proper scouting and development structure. Someone finds the natural talent and then the system nurtures that talent until the player fulfils their potential.
We have some reasonable scouting setups, although a bit ad hoc, for bowling and some average to good coaches. This helps keep the bowling department fairly well stocked but very few good batting coaches and a poor batting culture which prevents the development of modern batsman. The odd decent batsman might emerge due to natural talent but they never get the support to fulfil their potential.
 
We need to get over this "talent" rhetoric. The likes of Wasim and Waqar were once-in-a-generation type talents and although Imran played a big role in their development, he was also lucky to have them at his disposal. Imran wouldn't have been able to turn the likes of Rahat and Anwar into world beaters. We can see that by the fact that there were quite a few mediocre players during Imran's era and he was not able to do much about them.

If we continue to bank on people spotting the next legend on the streets, we will not go anywhere and that's why we have made marginal progress as a cricketing nation in the last 20-25 years. While other teams have learned how to produce better cricketers, we keep harping about the abundance of talent at our disposal. 1/50 cricketers are born, the other 49 are made. Obviously, their respective natural abilities are influential in determining how far they can go, but that alone will not take them anywhere.

It is not a surprise that Pakistan produces far less batsmen compared to other teams. After all, it is the most methodical skill in cricket, developed after years of training and coaching.

Good post but plz keep your political bias on the side and give credit to IK where he deserves.
 
Mudassar Nazar perhaps.

He did some good work at the NCA and it's a good thing that he's back working for the PCB.
 
even if you pick up talented ppl, you gotta have a leader to try them. misbah never did that. but YK was a master at it. introduced Amir and UAkmal even though they were super young....
 
Mamsoor Akhtar...lol
We, as kids, would berate Imran Khan for persisting with him.
 
[MENTION=138980]TalentSpotterPk[/MENTION]

This guy right here will do the job. Knows more about the domestic system than perhaps Inzi himself. Someone please get him into the admin!
 
Wasim and Waqar were not chosen by Imran, they were the by-product of cricket boom and domestic setup. He only gave approval. He chose Amir Sohail, who was good, but not ATG stuff.

Mudassar Nazar is one, he spotted Amir at very early age, followed by Wasim Akram.

Even a common Pakistani knows this story but let me repeat it for you. Waqar was playing a match UBL Vs Delhi at Gaddafi stadium. Imran Khan was watching the game on TV from his home at Zaman Park Lahore and saw Waqar bowling . He got excited and saw huge talent in Waqar, his run up and delivery style. During the break, Imran khan drove to Gaddafi stadium and told Waqar, whom he never knew or had heard about before, that he was going with Pakistan team to Sharjah in 3-4 days time. The team for Sharjah had already announced but Imran dropped a bowling all rounder Wasim from Faisalalabd and PIA from the team and took Waqar with the team and rest his history. Waqar did not have great first class stats before that and had played probably only one season by then.
 
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Imran Khan, Javed Miandad, Mudassar Nazar, Wasim Akram, Younis Khan, and even Shoaib Malik were all very good at spotting talent but one name that gets overlooked is Rashid Latif. He is an absolute beast at identifying and nurturing talent. The Godfather of Cricket in Karachi.
 
Even a common Pakistani knows this story but let me repeat it for you. Waqar was playing a match UBL Vs Delhi at Gaddafi stadium. Imran Khan was watching the game on TV from his home at Zaman Park Lahore and saw Waqar bowling . He got excited and saw huge talent in Waqar, his run up and delivery style. During the break, Imran khan drove to Gaddafi stadium and told Waqar, whom he never knew or had heard about before, that he was going with Pakistan team to Sharjah in 3-4 days time. The team for Sharjah had already announced but Imran dropped a bowling all rounder Wasim from Faisalalabd and PIA from the team and took Waqar with the team and rest his history. Waqar did not have great first class stats before that and had played probably only one season by then.


He was going to get selected anyway, if he wasn't the best among ranks then Imran left a gem of bowler for him.
 
He was going to get selected anyway, if he wasn't the best among ranks then Imran left a gem of bowler for him.

Didn't I tell you team was already selected and Waqar was not in it and he was not even recognition, not even close. But, Imran saw talent in him and picked him.
 
Didn't I tell you team was already selected and Waqar was not in it and he was not even recognition, not even close. But, Imran saw talent in him and picked him.

Maybe not for that tour, but for the next one, or the one after next one. He was obviously going to get noticed with his performances. Imran Khan was just lucky to see him bowling there in ground.
 
Maybe not for that tour, but for the next one, or the one after next one. He was obviously going to get noticed with his performances. Imran Khan was just lucky to see him bowling there in ground.

Yes talent gets noticed eventually but art of talent hunting is finding it early and grooming it.
 
Yes talent gets noticed eventually but art of talent hunting is finding it early and grooming it.

In contrast, Amir was first discovered in talent hunt camp at 11-12 age by Mudassadar/Wasim.
 
Maybe not for that tour, but for the next one, or the one after next one. He was obviously going to get noticed with his performances. Imran Khan was just lucky to see him bowling there in ground.

Its futile to have a discussion if someone has personal issue with IK. We discuss IK, the cricketer here only and lets keep that way.
 
[MENTION=138980]TalentSpotterPk[/MENTION]

This guy right here will do the job. Knows more about the domestic system than perhaps Inzi himself. Someone please get him into the admin!


JazaakAllah & Thank You. Until I have the passion I will keep on identifying players and will raise voice for those who have in them but are treated unfairly. I will keep on doing this without any perks & privalages. Even if someday I will get something out of this job I shall help those less previlaged young Cricketers wrt Sports Wear & Equipment InshaAllah.

My Personal mission is a PHD for which I am striving. Remember me in your prayers.

Kind Regards.
 
What are the criteria to rank the so called 'TALENT'??? Pls explain.

the pakistani team has mashallah so much talented batsmen, no wonder, we are practically called a team without batting and can single handedly make us lose the match all because of these talented batsmen.
 
No we need able people to identity and back players with ability.
Pakistan suffered in Waqar era as he persisted and backed players like Wahab and Rahat when we had better bowlers in domestics. He recommended Azhar when anyone who follow domestic, has basic captaincy knowledge and look beyond looks , English and press conferences can tell that Azhar is not captaincy material and Sarfraz is by far the best captain in Pakistan.

Producing players is as important but whats the point of having able players when you dont get the backing due to various reasons.

P.S: Even with a lot of problems we have players like Sharjeel, Babar, Haris, Shadab, Sarfraz, Hasan, Amir, Fakhar etc who have good enough ability in their respective departments and can be polished to become world's best. And I am just talking about international players here. If we include domestic we can easily have a pool of 20 players even right now to move forward with.
[MENTION=138980]TalentSpotterPk[/MENTION] what do you think?


It is alleged that Misbah & Waqar were the forces which resulted in Azhar's Odi comeback aswell as Captaincy. Even the Best talent identifiers can also make mistakes or blunders or misjudge. What they say was Excellent discipline, work ethics and him being respected & regarded by all team members.


Look I have seen terrible Captaincy tactics aswell as bodylanguage from Sarfraz Ahmed especially him screaming at youngsters like Kamran Akmal did in domestic csptaincy stints. Players get bogged down & field or bowl eith fear. There confidence gets shattered aswell.


But But Sarfraz improved massively in all these departments and is still improving MashaAllah so that is the Big Positive whereas fortunate or unfortunately Azhar wasn't improving and his tactics were very very poor. Sarfraz also has tons of Captaincy experience in domestic Cricket.


Imran Khan identified some players, backed them but they could not deliver as per the hopes of IK and had to be dropped. So misjudgements or players not fulfilling expectations is all natural and part of life.


Yes I agree that we have a bunch of very talented young players who just need right guidance, coaching & development but We do not have the system unfortunately.


We need to Reform our National Institutes. With It Cricket, Hockey & Squash will be reformed aswell and will become National Institutes.

Our Cricket Board/System cannot become one like SA, AUS, NZ or UK under current circumstances. We have to become First World Country first to have similar systems in place. We need to enforce democratic values at club, region, dustrict & PCB level. Currently it isn't a democratic setup and lacks accountability.
 
Its futile to have a discussion if someone has personal issue with IK. We discuss IK, the cricketer here only and lets keep that way.

Go no issue with him, he's better than many. But that ATG thing is bit exaggerated.
 
There confidence gets shattered aswell.


Sorry but that is not true. Can you point instances when that happened? I am following Sarfraz's captaincy not from last 1-2 years but for years now. Went to diamond ground here in Islamabad, from relatives who played with him in karachi and 1 thing i always heard is that Sarfraz is the one who gives confidence to his players. Because he is behind stumps so it seems as screaming to viewers but its his style of keeping them in the game and make them fight and he treats younger players like his younger brothers. I dont think younger players mind it otherwise you wont see them giving their 100% if someone is shattering their confidence. This can be attested by recent interviews of players.

Kher thread is not about Sarfraz so we can discuss his captaincy somewhere else.
 
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Sorry but that is not true. Can you point instances when that happened? I am following Sarfraz's captaincy not from last 1-2 years but for years now. Went to diamond ground here in Islamabad, from relatives who played with him in karachi and 1 thing i always heard is that Sarfraz is the one who gives confidence to his players. Because he is behind stumps so it seems as screaming to viewers but its his style of keeping them in the game and make them fight and he treats younger players like his younger brothers. I dont think younger players mind it otherwise you wont see them giving their 100% if someone is shattering their confidence. This can be attested by recent interviews of players.

Kher thread is not about Sarfraz so we can discuss his captaincy somewhere else.


This was a Hot PP topic during Pakistan's last two limited overs series prior to CT. You can dig those posts.

Great to see Sarfraz learning and Mickey has had a huge role to play in this. Hope it continues InshaAllah.
 
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