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Best Test batsmen of this generation

Savage

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1 smith(9/10)-rarely failed in any series and averages around 60.He could easily lose his no 1 spot if he has a poor overseas series(like kohli in England 2014)

2 amla(8.8/10) – would’ve been no 1 but in last 2 yrs he’s been below average whereas smith has been excellent:

3 Cook(8.5/10)- Cook and devilliers are very Close.He is certainly been more inconsistent than ABD.But i've given benefit of doubt to Cook for 3 reasons-:
a)he is an english opener and faces more difficult condition than any other player.You can check stats of other England openers to get this idea.
b)Cook has scored 11.7k runs as compared to 8.1k runs by ABD.Also he hasn't taken break from test cricket unlike ABD.
C) Cook has played for england as compared to ABd who played for SA(who were no 1 team for 90% of his career)

4 AB devilliers(8.5/10)-:he is more versatile than players below.he’s also played various great innings on 5th day(ex- 30 of 200 balls etc).He has been one of the most consistent players in the world.He'd probably overtake
Cook if he reaches 10k runs in test.He's slightly better than Cook against quality pacers.He also dominated Peak Johnson.

5 Pujara(8/10)- It's extremely difficult for me to justify his #5 rank as his stats aren't better than players below.To me he is Without doubt best player in Sc condition.Ashwin,jadeja and herath are great in SC but in batting there is no match for pujara.Played various match winning and saving in his test career.He has to rectify his record outside SC.If you look at stats then kohli should've been ranked higher than Pujara but pujara has played more match winnings/saving innings on most difficult pitches(even though those pitches are in SC).For EX-82* Vs Aus(4th test 2013),92 vs Aus(in banglore 2017),130+ vs england in mumbai 2012,145* vs Sri lanka 2015(series decider where no batsmen scored more than 50 runs),200 vs Aus in Ranchi 2017(very important inning underpressure).I think he has more than made up for his overseas failures and deserves to be ranked higher than Kohli.He also scored most runs when india toured South africa last time(280 runs next best was kohli and ABD)


6 kohli(7.8/10)-surprisingly he’s achieved more than any player below.he averages 48.84 along with 7 centuries against top ranked side outside SC(vs Sa,Aus,Eng,Nz away) which is great for any SC batsman.In comparison sangakara(SC batsmen like Kohli) also scored 7 centuries outside Sc.Need to improve against swing bowling.Overall he averages 51 against sa,Aus,NZ and Eng.kohli would've been ranked on par with Pujara if he hadn't failed horribly against Australia recently.


7 Root(7.5)-In terms of adapting to different condition(whether swing or spin),to me he is best batsman in the world right now.No batsman looks more in control than Root. Despite his good average overseas he hasn’t made much impact in his test career as player’s above.Need to convert 50s into more meaningful innings..He can easily become best of this generation in test.

8 williamson(7.5)-His record against top sides overall isn’t good as players above.Against top sides(Aus,sa,pak,eng,ind) he overall averages 41 and 39 overseas.His conversion rate has been great so far.

9 murali vijay(7.3) - He has underachieved but his stats are also underrated.I've rated him high because he has played many memorable knocks.He was also brilliant in overseas matches despite being an opener.

10 Azhar Ali/Rahane(7.2)-Rahane is probably most complete SC batsmen in overseas condition as he hasn't failed in any away series(in Aus,SA,NZ,ENG).But Rahane needs to play more memorable innings and improve his play against Spin.Azhar Ali has been more consistent than Rahane overall.He was brilliant in Aus tour.I've given slight edge to Azhar for two reason:
a)he is an opener
b)Azhar is pakistan's best batsmen and Rahane is probably india's 4th best batsmen.

NOTE-: i've judge them only by their performance so far and not by potential.
 
Kohli, Root and Williamson ahead of Pujara.. Rest I agree.
 
My revised Ranking:-

1 Smith(9/10)
2 Amla(8.8/10)
3 Cook(8.5/10)
4 ABD(8.5/10)
5 Pujara(8/10)
6 Kohli(7.8/10)
7 Root(7.5/10)
8 warner(7.5/10)
9 williamson(7.5/10)
10 Vijay/A Ali/Rahane(7.3/10-7.25/10-7.2/10)
 
With out a doubt, Steve Smith. Unfortunately he will have a steep decline as he enters his early thirties because he relies heavily on reflexes. Just like Punter and Viv, once they got old, their 60 average went downhill. Brilliant player nonetheless and one of the only Non-Asian players who can perform outstandingly against spin.
 
Amla has been the best for four, maybe five years of this decade. Smith has only been top for two. I don't see how people are putting the latter as #1.

My list, excluding retired players:

1) Hashim Amla
2) Steven Smith
3) Alastair Cook
4) AB de Villiers
5) Joe Root

My list of all batsmen from this decade:

1) Hashim Amla
2) Kumar Sangakkara
3) Younis Khan
4) Steven Smith
5) Kevin Pietersen
 
Last edited by a moderator:
My list of all batsmen from this decade:

1) Hashim Amla
2) Kumar Sangakkara
3) Younis Khan
4) Steven Smith
5) Kevin Pietersen

I somewhat agree with this.Only reason why i've rated Smith high is because he hasn't failed in any important series unlike Amla,Abd,Cook,Root,Kohli etc.That's why i've given benefit of doubt.He can easily lose his no 1 spot to amla if he doesn't perform consistently.
 
With out a doubt, Steve Smith. Unfortunately he will have a steep decline as he enters his early thirties because he relies heavily on reflexes. Just like Punter and Viv, once they got old, their 60 average went downhill. Brilliant player nonetheless and one of the only Non-Asian players who can perform outstandingly against spin.

HAHA i said the same thing to my friends couple of years ago but so far smith has proven me Wrong.
 
I had my doubts regarding Smith at one point but he has shown himself to the real deal. He has scored runs everywhere and against every opposition and he has scored big. His only weakness is swing and seam early on in the innings but he has already shown what he is capable of when he can tough out the initial phase.
 
1 smith(9/10)-rarely failed in any series and averages around 60.He could easily lose his no 1 spot if he has a poor overseas series(like kohli in England 2014)

2 amla(8.8/10) – would’ve been no 1 but in last 2 yrs he’s been below average whereas smith has been excellent:

3 Cook(8.5/10)- Cook and devilliers are very Close.He is certainly been more inconsistent than ABD.But i've given benefit of doubt to Cook for 3 reasons-:
a)he is an english opener and faces more difficult condition than any other player.You can check stats of other England openers to get this idea.
b)Cook has scored 11.7k runs as compared to 8.1k runs by ABD.Also he hasn't taken break from test cricket unlike ABD.
C) Cook has played for england as compared to ABd who played for SA(who were no 1 team for 90% of his career)

4 AB devilliers(8.5/10)-:he is more versatile than players below.he’s also played various great innings on 5th day(ex- 30 of 200 balls etc).He has been one of the most consistent players in the world.He'd probably overtake
Cook if he reaches 10k runs in test.He's slightly better than Cook against quality pacers.He also dominated Peak Johnson.

5 Pujara(8/10)- It's extremely difficult for me to justify his #5 rank as his stats aren't better than players below.To me he is Without doubt best player in Sc condition.Ashwin,jadeja and herath are great in SC but in batting there is no match for pujara.Played various match winning and saving in his test career.He has to rectify his record outside SC.If you look at stats then kohli should've been ranked higher than Pujara but pujara has played more match winnings/saving innings on most difficult pitches(even though those pitches are in SC).For EX-82* Vs Aus(4th test 2013),92 vs Aus(in banglore 2017),130+ vs england in mumbai 2012,145* vs Sri lanka 2015(series decider where no batsmen scored more than 50 runs),200 vs Aus in Ranchi 2017(very important inning underpressure).I think he has more than made up for his overseas failures and deserves to be ranked higher than Kohli.He also scored most runs when india toured South africa last time(280 runs next best was kohli and ABD).I'm not saying he is more of a complete batsmen than Kohli,Root,williamson but i think he deserves to be ranked higher than player's below.


6 kohli(7.8/10)-surprisingly he’s achieved more than any player below.he averages 48.84 along with 7 centuries against top ranked side outside SC(vs Sa,Aus,Eng,Nz away) which is great for any SC batsman.In comparison sangakara(SC batsmen like Kohli) also scored 7 centuries outside Sc.Need to improve against swing bowling.Overall he averages 51 against sa,Aus,NZ and Eng.kohli would've been ranked on par with Pujara if he hadn't failed horribly against Australia recently.


7 Root(7.5)-In terms of adapting to different condition(whether swing or spin),to me he is best batsman in the world right now.No batsman looks more in control than Root. Despite his good average overseas he hasn’t made much impact in his test career as player’s above.Need to convert 50s into more meaningful innings..He can easily become best of this generation in test.

8 williamson(7.5)-His record against top sides overall isn’t good as players above.Against top sides(Aus,sa,pak,eng,ind) he overall averages 41 and 39 overseas.His conversion rate has been great so far.

9 Warner(7.5)- Like M vijay,he is also underrated.His overseas record isn't as bad as many people thinks.
He had an Atg series in SA where he completely dominated Steyn.

10 murali vijay(7.3) - He has underachieved but his stats are also underrated.I've rated him high because he has played many memorable knocks.He was also brilliant in overseas matches despite being an opener.

11/12 Azhar Ali/Rahane(7.2)-Rahane is probably most complete SC batsmen in overseas condition as he hasn't failed in any away series(in Aus,SA,NZ,ENG).But Rahane needs to play more memorable innings and improve his play against Spin.Azhar Ali has been more consistent than Rahane overall.He was brilliant in Aus tour.I've given slight edge to Azhar for two reason:
a)he is an opener
b)Azhar is pakistan's best batsmen and Rahane is probably india's 4th best batsmen.

NOTE-: i've judge them only by their performance so far and not by potential.
Edit- i forgot to mention Warner earlier.

Thoughts ? [MENTION=25545]giri26[/MENTION] [MENTION=97523]Buffet[/MENTION] [MENTION=133760]Abdullah719[/MENTION] [MENTION=134408]Sidilicious[/MENTION] [MENTION=139108]Sachin136[/MENTION] [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] [MENTION=140806]jnaveen1980[/MENTION] [MENTION=8597]kingusama92[/MENTION] [MENTION=76058]cricketjoshila[/MENTION] [MENTION=141114]Hasan123[/MENTION] [MENTION=139595]Ab Fan[/MENTION] [MENTION=93712]MenInG[/MENTION] [MENTION=139975]The_Odd_One[/MENTION] [MENTION=138254]Syed1[/MENTION]
 
From fab 4s generation, they are the best players. Amla was already an established player so don't count him too much with these guys. Same with Cook and ABD. Rest of your list is fine.
 
Smith
Pujara
and Williamson the top three for me.

Haris would join them soon.

My criteria for rating test players is totally different from majority here. I dont give extra marks to innings just because they were overseas even though they were of flat tracks and on dead rubbers. For example Sarfraz is my fav player but I would never praise him extra for his average in Australia. The runs he scored were not that useful for the team and came in less pressure against not that difficult bowling. There is no point giving him extra points for that just because it was in Australia.
 
You're mixing two generations. AB, Amla etc shouldn't be with Smith and Kohli.

So far, the likes of Smith and Kohli have done nothing to even warrant a comparison with AB or Amla in tests.
 
It's not the same generation when you lump Smith with Amla/AB.

In current generation, Smith is ahead of others by a big margin.
 
I probably shouldn't have included Amla,cook and ABD.In my defence,i've already stated in my #2 post that i have included all batsmen who are playing currently and i've tried to rank them accordingly.For those having problems can simply ignore those 3 players.

My ranking:
1 Smith(9/10)
2 Pujara(8/10)
3 Kohli(7.8/10)
4 Root(7.5/10)
5 williamson(7.5/10)
6 Warner (7.5/10)
7 Vijay/A Ali/Rahane(7.3/10-7.25/10-7.2/10)
 
Missing Younis Khan... He retired in 2017, his conversion rate is impeccable, Oval 205 is probably one of the greatest knocks by any foreign player on English soil in this decade.

Has centuries in all 11 circketing countries.

Its a travesty how people underrate him.
 
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Kohli for all his genius has failed in England, don't see how gets to be on top despite never doing it on a green top
 
Smith
Pujara
and Williamson the top three for me.

Haris would join them soon.

My criteria for rating test players is totally different from majority here. I dont give extra marks to innings just because they were overseas even though they were of flat tracks and on dead rubbers. For example Sarfraz is my fav player but I would never praise him extra for his average in Australia. The runs he scored were not that useful for the team and came in less pressure against not that difficult bowling. There is no point giving him extra points for that just because it was in Australia.

You're criteria is similiar to mine.This is one of the main reason why i've rated pujara highly and rahane comparably low.To add to that,it doesn't mean that higher rated inning necessarily has to be matchwinning.For
ex- i rate Pujara 130+ vs england in mumbai(where india lost) > Kohli century in Nz(where india managed to draw the match).
 
Missing Younis Khan... He retired in 2017, his conversion rate is impeccable, Oval 205 is probably one of the greatest knocks by any foreign player on English soil in this decade.

Has centuries in all 11 circketing countries.

Its a travesty how people underrate him.

Read my post #2.he isn't playing currently.I would've rated him alongside Amla,Cook and ABD.He was no doubt world class player and better than kohli,pujara,williamson etc.
 
You're criteria is similiar to mine.This is one of the main reason why i've rated pujara highly and rahane comparably low.To add to that,it doesn't mean that higher rated inning necessarily has to be matchwinning.For
ex- i rate Pujara 130+ vs england in mumbai(where india lost) > Kohli century in Nz(where india managed to draw the match).

Kohli is hyped in tests because he is excellent in odis and t20s and the biggest name alongside AB. In actual he is the Hashim Amla of tests. Hasnt done anything substantial in '60' test matches. 60 test matches is a big sample size.
 
Good list. Williamson should be higher though.

I must say that i haven't watched a lot of williamson batting but i know he is rated very highly around the world.I probably should've ranked him alongside kohli(above root) but his stats against top ranked side are comparably low both home & away.
Against SA,Aus,ENG,Pak and Ind
He averages 41.53 overall and 38.92 away from home.Even in Sri lanka he averages only 40.5.But,He has played many more memorable innings away from home unlike root.His stats might be underrated but still not enough for me to rate him over Kohli.
 
You can't lump Cook, Amla and de Villiers with Kohli, Smith, Root and Williamson. They are not from the same generation, although more than half of their careers have overlapped.

Similarly, you cannot lump Tendulkar, Lara, Dravid, Kallis etc. with Cook, Amla, de Villiers, Sangakkara, Younis etc. even though they have played a lot of cricket together.
 
You can't lump Cook, Amla and de Villiers with Kohli, Smith, Root and Williamson. They are not from the same generation, although more than half of their careers have overlapped.

Similarly, you cannot lump Tendulkar, Lara, Dravid, Kallis etc. with Cook, Amla, de Villiers, Sangakkara, Younis etc. even though they have played a lot of cricket together.
[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION]
My mistake.i tried to rank all top batsmen who are playing currently.

My new ranking:

1 smith(9/10)-rarely failed in any series and averages around 60.He completely outperformed Kohli in india, williamson in Nz and also he scored more runs than root in last Ashes series in England.

2 Pujara(8/10)- It's extremely difficult for me to justify his #2 rank as his overseas stats aren't better than players below.To me he is Without doubt best player in Sc condition.Ashwin,jadeja and herath are great in SC but in batting there is no match for pujara.Played various match winning and saving in his test career.He has to rectify his record outside SC.If you look at stats then kohli should've been ranked higher than Pujara but pujara has played more match winnings/saving innings on most difficult pitches(even though those pitches are in SC).For EX-82* Vs Aus(4th test 2013),92 vs Aus(in banglore 2017),130+ vs england in mumbai 2012,145* vs Sri lanka 2015(series decider where no batsmen scored more than 50 runs),200 vs Aus in Ranchi 2017(very important inning underpressure).I think he has more than made up for his overseas failures and deserves to be ranked higher than Kohli.Pujara Hasn't failed in ANY SC series so far.He also scored most runs when india toured South africa last time(280 runs next best was kohli and ABD).I'm not saying he is more of a complete batsmen than Kohli,Root,williamson but i think he deserves to be ranked higher than player's below.


3 kohli(7.8/10)-surprisingly he’s achieved more than any player below.he averages 48.84 along with 7 centuries against top ranked side outside SC(vs Sa,Aus,Eng,Nz away) which is great for any SC batsman.In comparison sangakara(SC batsmen like Kohli) also scored 7 centuries outside Sc.Need to improve against swing bowling.Overall he averages 51 against sa,Aus,NZ and Eng.kohli would've been ranked on par with Pujara if he hadn't failed horribly against Australia recently.


4 Root(7.5)-In terms of adapting to different condition(whether swing or spin),to me he is best batsman in the world right now.(Smith close Second)He also had 1 ATG series at home vs Australia.No batsman looks more in control than Root. Despite his good average overseas he hasn’t made much impactful innings in his test career as player’s above.Need to convert 50s into more meaningful innings..He can easily become best of this generation in test.I think he has huge potential.

5 williamson(7.5)-His record against top sides overall isn’t good as players above.Against top sides(Aus,sa,pak,eng,ind) he overall averages 41 and 39 overseas.His conversion rate has been great so far.He has also played many memorable innings away from home unlike Root.

6 Warner(7.5)- Like M vijay,he is also underrated.His overseas record isn't as bad as many people thinks.
He had an Atg series in SA where he completely dominated Steyn.

7 murali vijay(7.3) - He has underachieved but his stats are also underrated.I've rated him high because he has played many memorable knocks.He was also brilliant in overseas matches despite being an opener.

8/9 Azhar Ali/Rahane(7.2)-Rahane is probably most complete SC batsmen in overseas condition as he hasn't failed in any away series(in Aus,SA,NZ,ENG).But Rahane needs to play more memorable innings and improve his play against Spin.Azhar Ali has been more consistent than Rahane overall.He was brilliant in Aus tour.I've given slight edge to Azhar for two reason:
a)he is an opener
b)Azhar is pakistan's best batsmen and Rahane is probably india's 4th best batsmen.

NOTE-: i've judge them only by their performance so far and not by potential.


My seperate ranking for Amla,Cook and ABD:-

1 amla(8.8/10) – He has played many memorable innings overseas and has consistent record overall.

2 Cook(8.6/10)- Cook and devilliers are very Close.He is certainly been more inconsistent than ABD.But i've given benefit of doubt to Cook for 3 reasons-:
a)he is an english opener and faces more difficult condition than any other player.You can check stats of other England openers to get this idea.
b)Cook has scored 11.7k runs as compared to 8.1k runs by ABD.Also he hasn't taken break from test cricket unlike ABD.
C) Cook has played for england as compared to ABd who played for SA(who were no 1 team for 90% of his career)

3 AB devilliers(8.5/10)-:he is more versatile than players below.he’s also played various great innings on 5th day(ex- 30 of 200 balls etc).He has been one of the most consistent players in the world.He'd probably overtake Cook if he reaches 10k runs in test.He's slightly better than Cook against quality pacers.He also dominated Peak Johnson.

Thoughts ? [MENTION=25545]giri26[/MENTION] [MENTION=97523]Buffet[/MENTION] [MENTION=133760]Abdullah719[/MENTION] [MENTION=134408]Sidilicious[/MENTION] [MENTION=139108]Sachin136[/MENTION] [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] [MENTION=140806]jnaveen1980[/MENTION] [MENTION=8597]kingusama92[/MENTION] [MENTION=76058]cricketjoshila[/MENTION] [MENTION=141114]Hasan123[/MENTION] [MENTION=139595]Ab Fan[/MENTION] [MENTION=93712]MenInG[/MENTION] [MENTION=139975]The_Odd_One[/MENTION] [MENTION=138254]Syed1[/MENTION] [MENTION=146057]Ted123[/MENTION] [MENTION=132954]Aman[/MENTION]
 
[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION]
My mistake.i tried to rank all top batsmen who are playing currently.

My new ranking:

1 smith(9/10)-rarely failed in any series and averages around 60.He completely outperformed Kohli in india, williamson in Nz and also he scored more runs than root in last Ashes series in England.

2 Pujara(8/10)- It's extremely difficult for me to justify his #2 rank as his overseas stats aren't better than players below.To me he is Without doubt best player in Sc condition.Ashwin,jadeja and herath are great in SC but in batting there is no match for pujara.Played various match winning and saving in his test career.He has to rectify his record outside SC.If you look at stats then kohli should've been ranked higher than Pujara but pujara has played more match winnings/saving innings on most difficult pitches(even though those pitches are in SC).For EX-82* Vs Aus(4th test 2013),92 vs Aus(in banglore 2017),130+ vs england in mumbai 2012,145* vs Sri lanka 2015(series decider where no batsmen scored more than 50 runs),200 vs Aus in Ranchi 2017(very important inning underpressure).I think he has more than made up for his overseas failures and deserves to be ranked higher than Kohli.Pujara Hasn't failed in ANY SC series so far.He also scored most runs when india toured South africa last time(280 runs next best was kohli and ABD).I'm not saying he is more of a complete batsmen than Kohli,Root,williamson but i think he deserves to be ranked higher than player's below.


3 kohli(7.8/10)-surprisingly he’s achieved more than any player below.he averages 48.84 along with 7 centuries against top ranked side outside SC(vs Sa,Aus,Eng,Nz away) which is great for any SC batsman.In comparison sangakara(SC batsmen like Kohli) also scored 7 centuries outside Sc.Need to improve against swing bowling.Overall he averages 51 against sa,Aus,NZ and Eng.kohli would've been ranked on par with Pujara if he hadn't failed horribly against Australia recently.


4 Root(7.5)-In terms of adapting to different condition(whether swing or spin),to me he is best batsman in the world right now.(Smith close Second)He also had 1 ATG series at home vs Australia.No batsman looks more in control than Root. Despite his good average overseas he hasn’t made much impactful innings in his test career as player’s above.Need to convert 50s into more meaningful innings..He can easily become best of this generation in test.I think he has huge potential.

5 williamson(7.5)-His record against top sides overall isn’t good as players above.Against top sides(Aus,sa,pak,eng,ind) he overall averages 41 and 39 overseas.His conversion rate has been great so far.He has also played many memorable innings away from home unlike Root.

6 Warner(7.5)- Like M vijay,he is also underrated.His overseas record isn't as bad as many people thinks.
He had an Atg series in SA where he completely dominated Steyn.

7 murali vijay(7.3) - He has underachieved but his stats are also underrated.I've rated him high because he has played many memorable knocks.He was also brilliant in overseas matches despite being an opener.

8/9 Azhar Ali/Rahane(7.2)-Rahane is probably most complete SC batsmen in overseas condition as he hasn't failed in any away series(in Aus,SA,NZ,ENG).But Rahane needs to play more memorable innings and improve his play against Spin.Azhar Ali has been more consistent than Rahane overall.He was brilliant in Aus tour.I've given slight edge to Azhar for two reason:
a)he is an opener
b)Azhar is pakistan's best batsmen and Rahane is probably india's 4th best batsmen.

NOTE-: i've judge them only by their performance so far and not by potential.


My seperate ranking for Amla,Cook and ABD:-

1 amla(8.8/10) – He has played many memorable innings overseas and has consistent record overall.

2 Cook(8.6/10)- Cook and devilliers are very Close.He is certainly been more inconsistent than ABD.But i've given benefit of doubt to Cook for 3 reasons-:
a)he is an english opener and faces more difficult condition than any other player.You can check stats of other England openers to get this idea.
b)Cook has scored 11.7k runs as compared to 8.1k runs by ABD.Also he hasn't taken break from test cricket unlike ABD.
C) Cook has played for england as compared to ABd who played for SA(who were no 1 team for 90% of his career)

3 AB devilliers(8.5/10)-:he is more versatile than players below.he’s also played various great innings on 5th day(ex- 30 of 200 balls etc).He has been one of the most consistent players in the world.He'd probably overtake Cook if he reaches 10k runs in test.He's slightly better than Cook against quality pacers.He also dominated Peak Johnson.

Thoughts ? [MENTION=25545]giri26[/MENTION] [MENTION=97523]Buffet[/MENTION] [MENTION=133760]Abdullah719[/MENTION] [MENTION=134408]Sidilicious[/MENTION] [MENTION=139108]Sachin136[/MENTION] [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] [MENTION=140806]jnaveen1980[/MENTION] [MENTION=8597]kingusama92[/MENTION] [MENTION=76058]cricketjoshila[/MENTION] [MENTION=141114]Hasan123[/MENTION] [MENTION=139595]Ab Fan[/MENTION] [MENTION=93712]MenInG[/MENTION] [MENTION=139975]The_Odd_One[/MENTION] [MENTION=138254]Syed1[/MENTION] [MENTION=146057]Ted123[/MENTION] [MENTION=132954]Aman[/MENTION]

To be really frank, even though I think Pujara is a very good player, your ranking of him is too high. I think in terms of performances overseas, Rahane is way ahead of Pujara at the moment. Things might change in a year of so, but right now I would not rate Pujara ahead of Kohli, Rahane, Root and Williamson. Pujara has one hundred in SA and failed in NZ, England and Australia. Murali Vijay did much better than Pujara, Vijay scored 400+ runs in England and Australia.

1. Smith (Undisputed at the moment)
2. Kane Williamson
3. Ajinkya Rahane
4. Virat Kohli
5. Joe Root
6. Azhar Ali (Scored runs in Australia and England)
7. Pujara (He will move up if he performs better overseas this time around)
8. Murali Vijay (Was brilliant in England and Australia, scored 90 odd in SA as well, only failure was in NZ)
9. David Warner (Phenomenal in Australian, average elsewhere except SA)
 
To be really frank, even though I think Pujara is a very good player, your ranking of him is too high. I think in terms of performances overseas, Rahane is way ahead of Pujara at the moment. Things might change in a year of so, but right now I would not rate Pujara ahead of Kohli, Rahane, Root and Williamson. Pujara has one hundred in SA and failed in NZ, England and Australia. Murali Vijay did much better than Pujara, Vijay scored 400+ runs in England and Australia.

1. Smith (Undisputed at the moment)
2. Kane Williamson
3. Ajinkya Rahane
4. Virat Kohli
5. Joe Root
6. Azhar Ali (Scored runs in Australia and England)
7. Pujara (He will move up if he performs better overseas this time around)
8. Murali Vijay (Was brilliant in England and Australia, scored 90 odd in SA as well, only failure was in NZ)
9. David Warner (Phenomenal in Australian, average elsewhere except SA)

I can understand williamson and kohli above Pujara but I think you're ranking of rahane is too high. i've rated Rahane below Kohli,pujara and vijay(it was a very close call ) for following reasons-:

1. he has only played 40 matches compared to 50+ matches played by kohli,pujara,Vijay.

2. His overseas performance is at par(or just slightly better than) Kohli and vijay.He wasn't our best batsmen on any away series.M vijay(averages 40) performed slightly better than rahane(averages 33) in England and vijay was also an opener who regularly faced new ball against Anderson,Broad.Like Rahane century,M vijay also scored 95 at lords.Kohli averages 52.48(with 6 century which includes a MOM century in SA) compared to 48.59 (with 3 century)by rahane during Dec 2013-jan 2015 overseas tour.


3 He Hasn't done enough at home on difficult pitches for me to rate him higher than pujara,Kohli and also Vijay .
Pujara,vijay and kohli has had several memorable series/innings at home.For ex- pujara vs Aus(2013,2017), vijay vs Aus(2010,2013) and Kohli vs NZ(2012)and England(2016) etc.

4 I've rated pujara higher because of his clutch performance at home and he has played many more memorable/impactful knocks at home than what rahane has done overseas.

5 Rahane has played second fiddle whereas Pujara and Kohli has been our main batsmen so far.He reminds me of inferior version of Kallis.he has performed well on several series but needs to dominate series like kohli and pujara.

Kohli and pujara deserves to be rated higher than Rahane.vijay and Rahane is a difficult choice as both are inconsistent.
 
I would put Root above many there. HE plays well everywhere. Only issue is conversion. Otherwise he scores lot of runs.
 
Missing Younis Khan... He retired in 2017, his conversion rate is impeccable, Oval 205 is probably one of the greatest knocks by any foreign player on English soil in this decade.

Has centuries in all 11 circketing countries.

Its a travesty how people underrate him.
yup i agree for the last 10 years you can say Younis khan has been top 5 test batsman in the world.

just ask Jimmy Anderson and Stuart Board how much they rate him and what a player he was. Best batsman against Spin i have seen in my life time.
 
Kohli, Root and Williamson ahead of Pujara.. Rest I agree.

I can understand williamson and kohli ahead of pujara but root higher on the basis of performance?
For me,Pujara>Root(so far) for several reasons-:

1)Both are brilliant batsmen at home.Root was brilliant in last Ashes series at home.But,Pujara has been more consistent and has played many more impactful knocks so far

2)Root overseas stats are overrated.

a)Root vs Pujara[In Aus,SA and NZ]

Root=666 runs @ 35.05
Pujara=572 runs @33.64

So basically Root=pujara(or just slightly better) in those countries

b) Root(in india 2016) vs Pujara(in england 2014)
Both played 5 matches on each tour.

Root=491@ 49.1
Pujara=222@22.2

This is where root overtakes pujara in terms of overseas performance but by how much?

Root despite averaging 50 on good wickets in india,had absolutely no impact in that series.He scored 1 century in Rajkot where M ali,Stokes,Cook all scored more runs than him in that test.Despite all his good average in india,he still couldn't prevent his side from couple of inning's defeats.Don’t be fooled by margins of defeat in last 2 test of that series,England could’ve easily drawn those matches.All it requred was one extremely good inning which Root Failed to do so despite being set.

I'm not saying Pujara stats are underrated but rather Root's stats are overrated.


3)Responsibility-: This is one of the main reason why i've rated Pujara ahead of root.Root has been one of the most irresponsible players in recent times.He consistently gets out with job being only half done unlike pujara.For ex-Root's dismissal against yasir at lords,Dismissal against J yadav in india etc.This is why Pujara has played more impactful/meaningful innings than root so far in his career.

In terms of performance,Pujara deserves to be rated higher than Root.

Note-: i've rated players on their performance.I've only stated Stats to give some idea about player's performance.
 
I can understand williamson and kohli ahead of pujara but root higher on the basis of performance?
For me,Pujara>Root(so far) for several reasons-:

1)Both are brilliant batsmen at home.Root was brilliant in last Ashes series at home.But,<B>Pujara has been more consistent and has played many more impactful knocks so far </B>

2)Root overseas stats are overrated.

a)Root vs Pujara[In Aus,SA and NZ]

Root=666 runs @ 35.05
Pujara=572 runs @33.64

<B>So basically Root=pujara(or just slightly better) in those countries</B>

b) Root(in india 2016) vs Pujara(in england 2014)
Both played 5 matches on each tour.

Root=491@ 49.1
Pujara=222@22.2

This is where root overtakes pujara in terms of overseas performance but by how much?

Root despite averaging 50 on good wickets in india,had absolutely no impact in that series.He scored 1 century in Rajkot where M ali,Stokes,Cook all scored more runs than him in that test.Despite all his good average in india,he still couldn't prevent his side from couple of inning's defeats.Don’t be fooled by margins of defeat in last 2 test of that series,England could’ve easily drawn those matches.All it requred was one extremely good inning which Root Failed to do so despite being set.

I'm not saying Pujara stats are underrated but rather Root's stats are overrated.


3)Responsibility-: This is one of the main reason why i've rated Pujara ahead of root.Root has been one of the most irresponsible players in recent times.He consistently gets out with job being only half done unlike pujara.For ex-Root's dismissal against yasir at lords,Dismissal against J yadav in india etc.This is why Pujara has played more impactful/meaningful innings than root so far in his career.

In terms of performance,Pujara deserves to be rated higher than Root.

Note-: i've rated players on their performance.I've only stated Stats to give some idea about player's performance.

Ok I will come to all your points one by one.

The first comparison was between their home performance. Yes, Pujara has been dominant at home and played some great innings but so has been Root in England. His performance in Ashes 2015 was mindblowing to say the least. He amassed runs heavily vs India in 2014, Pakistan in 2016 and SA in 2017 and was pivotal in winning series against these big sides. So he has been as good as Pujara in home conditions.

Secondly, when Root toured NZ, he was just 1 match old and when he toured Aus, he was 11 match old and failed in the team where stalwarts like KP, Cook, Trott and Bell all failed. He wasn't established as a test player while Pujara was a established test player already when he toured Aus, NZ and Eng. He will do well in those countries as he is now an established test player.

Root on other hand played a match winning hundred in SA and although I agree that he wasn't impactful in India and UAE( you left that) but still scored useful 50s there. Feasted on WI like others have done.

His stats are a bit overrated but he is a lot superior to Pujara in overseas conditions and equally good at home.
 
Ok I will come to all your points one by one.

The first comparison was between their home performance. Yes, Pujara has been dominant at home and played some great innings but so has been Root in England. His performance in Ashes 2015 was mindblowing to say the least. He amassed runs heavily vs India in 2014, Pakistan in 2016 and SA in 2017 and was pivotal in winning series against these big sides. So he has been as good as Pujara in home conditions.

Secondly, when Root toured NZ, he was just 1 match old and when he toured Aus, he was 11 match old and failed in the team where stalwarts like KP, Cook, Trott and Bell all failed. He wasn't established as a test player while Pujara was a established test player already when he toured Aus, NZ and Eng. He will do well in those countries as he is now an established test player.

Root on other hand played a match winning hundred in SA and although I agree that he wasn't impactful in India and UAE( you left that) but still scored useful 50s there. Feasted on WI like others have done.

His stats are a bit overrated but he is a lot superior to Pujara in overseas conditions and equally good at home.
you made some good points.I agree with most of your points apart from your last line
"he is a lot superior to Pujara in overseas conditions and equally good at home"
I would've completely agreed with this if you would've added "potentially" at the start of this line.Root has shown more potential so far.


I didn't include UAE as pujara hasn't played in those conditions.I think pujara would do well there as UAE pitches are more flat than indian pitches.Also i doubt Root's performance was special as he wasn't highest run scorer for ENG that series.

Similarly i didn't include Pujara record in Sri lanka where he has performed brilliantly as Root hasn't played there.His MOM inning's of 145* was a very special knock on series decider(in Sri lanka 2015).


"So basically Root=pujara(or just slightly better) in those countries"

It seems you didn't agree with this statement.I know Root's performance in AUS wasn't that bad but it was still a bad performance.If his performance wasn't bad then he wouldn't have been dropped for 5th test.

They both failed in NZ.

You blamed inexperience for root's failure in NZ but same can be said for Pujara . Pujara also played 2 test matches in SA 2010 where he faced likes of Steyn,Morkel,Tsosotbe(i've forgotten his name but he bowled brilliantly that series) and Kallis.He faced much better bowlers than Root(2016)on both occasion(2010,2013).Pujara scored most runs in SA series 2013(despite being run-out once) but i doubt Root was even best batsmen for his side in SA series.(where stokes thrashed SA bowling for 250+ knock)

Also Those conditions are more difficult to face for SC batsmen as compared to English batsmen.So,you would've expected Root to perform a lot better than he actually did.

I hope this proves "lot superior to Pujara in overseas conditions" statement wrong

Regarding Their performance at home.I think you should look Beyond stats.Their stats are very similar but i think Pujara has done better than Root.I don't think pujara has failed in even one series at home and has played a lot more clutch knock than Root.Irrespective of root stats at home,i still believe he has been irresponsible even at home.

Even though Smith scored more runs than Root but i still rate root's performance highly.I still said somewhere that root had an ATG Ashes series.I know he scored a lot of runs against Pak 2016 and SA 2017 but i still think he could've done a lot better in those series.He could have helped his side to win series against PAK at home but instead apart from 1 inning(250+ knock) he was average.In last 2-3 years,England record has been average (both home and away)and it's because their best batsmen Cook and Root both have been inconsistent.

Both Pujara and Root has played majority of matches at home and Pujara has been more consistent and has played more "clutch" knock than Root.That's why i have rated pujara higher than Root.
 
you made some good points.I agree with most of your points apart from your last line
"he is a lot superior to Pujara in overseas conditions and equally good at home"
I would've completely agreed with this if you would've added "potentially" at the start of this line.Root has shown more potential so far.


I didn't include UAE as pujara hasn't played in those conditions.I think pujara would do well there as UAE pitches are more flat than indian pitches.Also i doubt Root's performance was special as he wasn't highest run scorer for ENG that series.

Similarly i didn't include Pujara record in Sri lanka where he has performed brilliantly as Root hasn't played there.His MOM inning's of 145* was a very special knock on series decider(in Sri lanka 2015).


"So basically Root=pujara(or just slightly better) in those countries"

It seems you didn't agree with this statement.I know Root's performance in AUS wasn't that bad but it was still a bad performance.If his performance wasn't bad then he wouldn't have been dropped for 5th test.

They both failed in NZ.

<B>You blamed inexperience for root's failure in NZ but same can be said for Pujara . Pujara also played 2 test matches in SA 2010 where he faced likes of Steyn,Morkel,Tsosotbe(i've forgotten his name but he bowled brilliantly that series) and Kallis.</B>He faced much better bowlers than Root(2016)on both occasion(2010,2013).Pujara scored most runs in SA series 2013(despite being run-out once) but i doubt Root was even best batsmen for his side in SA series.(where stokes thrashed SA bowling for 250+ knock)

Also Those conditions are more difficult to face for SC batsmen as compared to English batsmen.So,you would've expected Root to perform a lot better than he actually did.

I hope this proves "lot superior to Pujara in overseas conditions" statement wrong

Regarding Their performance at home.I think you should look Beyond stats.Their stats are very similar but i think Pujara has done better than Root.I don't think pujara has failed in even one series at home and has played a lot more clutch knock than Root.Irrespective of root stats at home,i still believe he has been irresponsible even at home.

Even though Smith scored more runs than Root but i still rate root's performance highly.I still said somewhere that root had an ATG Ashes series.I know he scored a lot of runs against Pak 2016 and SA 2017 but i still think he could've done a lot better in those series.He could have helped his side to win series against PAK at home but instead apart from 1 inning(250+ knock) he was average.In last 2-3 years,England record has been average (both home and away)and it's because their best batsmen Cook and Root both have been inconsistent.

Both Pujara and Root has played majority of matches at home and Pujara has been more consistent and has played more "clutch" knock than Root.That's why i have rated pujara higher than Root.

I dont think I ever criticised Pujara for failing in SA in initial tours and I haven't mentioned SA anywhere for him.

I dont get this impactful and clutch knock at home logic really. Both have scored heavy loads of runs at home and that too against big opponents and have been match winners at home. If Root didnt scored enough runs vs Pak and SA, then Pujara also didnt scored enough vs Eng (where kohli outperformed him) and NZ.

I think your criticism with Root is not scoring heavily or impactful away from home. This is true but atleast he has scored runs in India, UAE and WI and should do well this time in Aus.

Pujara failed completely in Aus, NZ, Eng and WI( they are a weak team but its not as easy to score there).He only scored in SA and SL where Root will also score eventually.

<B>As far as your other argument of England not being home dominant is concerned, it has more to do with the fact that barring Root, none of England batsmen have scored enough at home. Cook has never done great at home while Bairstow bats way down the order. Their batting is carried by Root completely at home and in Asia however, Cook does very well. </B> While for India, apart from Pujara, Kohli has also scored heavily at home.Rahul did it recently. Hence they are dominant at home but England aren't.
 
Point is Pujara has failed in 4 countries i.e. Aus( flat roads), Eng, NZ and WI when he was already an established test player while Root has failed in just 2 and that was when he was just 1 match and 11 match old respectively.

However, I agree that Pujara's knock in SL which was his career saving knock is far better knock than any Root has played away from home. But that is when we talk about one single inning brilliance.
 
Point is Pujara has failed in 4 countries i.e. Aus( flat roads), Eng, NZ and WI when he was already an established test player while Root has failed in just 2 and that was when he was just 1 match and 11 match old respectively.

However, I agree that Pujara's knock in SL which was his career saving knock is far better knock than any Root has played away from home. But that is when we talk about one single inning brilliance.

I do realize that he was unfortunately only 1 and 11 match old but that's still irrelevant.The fact is he failed there and he is not only one to face these types of situation.there are many players who also faced similar infact more difficult situation than what root faced at the start of his career.Ex- rahane,tendulkar etc.

Judging by your last 2 lines i think you've realised that root has not performed "significantly" or "lot" better than Pujara so far.unlike root,pujara hasn't yet played in UAE and Bangladesh which are significantly easier conditions for Sc batsmen unlike SA,Eng,NZ where conditions are difficult for SC batsmen.

Since there is not a "significant" difference between their overseas performance.i have rated them "mostly" on the basis of their home performance and also because most of their matches,memorable innings or centuries are at home
For ex-:pujara has played 27 matches at home vs AUS,SA,ENG and NZ(as compared to 14 match away from home against them)
Now,Only reason why you rate Root ahead of Pujara is because you believe they both are "equally good" at home.this is where i disagree.

At Home:-(against AUS,SA,NZ and ENG/IND)
Pujara-2530 runs @ 61.70
Root-2204 @ 58.00

Their stats are almost similar at home.if you honestly ask me Pujara overall stats are not better than both Kohli and Root but stats are not the only way to judge their performance otherwise anybody can prove kallis>=ponting&lara.
The Main reason why i don't consider root that highly despite his good stats(both home and away) is because i have found him to be unreliable and irresponsible as compared to other top batsmen like pujara,kohli and Smith.
I can comfortably say pujara has performed like an ATG at home but couldn't say the same for Root.i think at the end of the day it comes to preference-
for ex-You'd probably rate performance of [Root vs Pak 2016 and SA 2017]>[Pujara vs Aus 2013 and england 2012] whereas i don't.

or Root[Ashes 2015] > pujara[vs AUS 2017] whereas i don't and so on...
These are just example(might be true or might be wrong)
 
I can understand williamson and kohli above Pujara but I think you're ranking of rahane is too high. i've rated Rahane below Kohli,pujara and vijay(it was a very close call ) for following reasons-:

1. he has only played 40 matches compared to 50+ matches played by kohli,pujara,Vijay.

2. His overseas performance is at par(or just slightly better than) Kohli and vijay.He wasn't our best batsmen on any away series.M vijay(averages 40) performed slightly better than rahane(averages 33) in England and vijay was also an opener who regularly faced new ball against Anderson,Broad.Like Rahane century,M vijay also scored 95 at lords.Kohli averages 52.48(with 6 century which includes a MOM century in SA) compared to 48.59 (with 3 century)by rahane during Dec 2013-jan 2015 overseas tour.


3 He Hasn't done enough at home on difficult pitches for me to rate him higher than pujara,Kohli and also Vijay .
Pujara,vijay and kohli has had several memorable series/innings at home.For ex- pujara vs Aus(2013,2017), vijay vs Aus(2010,2013) and Kohli vs NZ(2012)and England(2016) etc.

4 I've rated pujara higher because of his clutch performance at home and he has played many more memorable/impactful knocks at home than what rahane has done overseas.

5 Rahane has played second fiddle whereas Pujara and Kohli has been our main batsmen so far.He reminds me of inferior version of Kallis.he has performed well on several series but needs to dominate series like kohli and pujara.

Kohli and pujara deserves to be rated higher than Rahane.vijay and Rahane is a difficult choice as both are inconsistent.

Don't just look at averages, everyone here knows that Rahane is far better player outside Asia than Pujara at the moment. Kohli and Rahane might switch places but Pujara does not deserve to be higher than either of them just on the basis on home or Asia performances. You said Vijay scored 95 in Lords, his innings would have been meaningless if Rahane hadn't rescued India to a 290+ score in the first innings. Yeah he failed in that series after that but that was the only significant innings played by an Indian bat in that series. Rahane played very well in Australia where the pitches were absolutely flat and everyone was scoring runs but Pujara failed there as well. Pujara failed in NZ as well where Rahane scored a hundred when the match was still live, helping India to take a huge first innings lead. I actually made a mistake, Pujara needs to be below Vijay as well in the ranking. Pujara also was a grand flop in West Indies last year where even Ravi Ashwin scored 2 hundreds. Rahane played very well there and so did KL Rahul. Pujara went missing again. I repeat his only significant innings outside Asia is that 153 he scored against SA in 2013. Since 2013 outside Asia Pujara averages 37 while Rahane Averages 67 almost double. Only Kohli has a higher average than Rahane. Vijay Averages 40 and Ashwin averages 36 just a run lower than Pujara, so can I claim Pujara = Ashwin outside Asia? Pujara's average outside Asia drops to 29.5 if I take his overall average since he started playing in 2010.

I watch a lot of cricket and I believe Pujara is a good batsman but I would not agree he is better than Rahane at the moment. No matter how many stats you put up, no one will agree, he is better than Rahane, Root, Williamson or even Azhar Ali as Ali has a hundred in England and double in Australia.
 
Also there is a reason why people don't consider Jayawardane a great in spite of his near 50 average in tests. He was brilliant in Asia, much like Pujara but flopped outside it. Unless Pujara turns things around in the next leg of overseas tour, he will remain another Jayawardane in my book. Good Indian player but not a great one.
 
Smith 9
Amla 8.9
Kohli 8
Rahane 8
Warner 7
KW 7
Root 7
 
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