Boys trying to fill missing men's shoes? Critics need to take it easy on Shaheen, Naseem & Musa

[MenInG]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-partner="tweetdeck"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Critics should take it easy on Naseem Shah, Shaheen Shah Afridi & Mohammad Musa. They're young boys trying to fill men's shoes and are being expected to fill the big gap left by the previous generation of pace-bowlers who for one reason or another are nowhere to be seen <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/AUSvPAK?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#AUSvPAK</a></p>— Saj Sadiq (@Saj_PakPassion) <a href="https://twitter.com/Saj_PakPassion/status/1200828333732376577?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 30, 2019</a></blockquote>
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[MenInG]

Easy to turn on these young kids but remember the real culprits are others.

In the coming days, Shaheen, Naseem and Musa will need our support and less criticism.

They have talent but needs to be groomed and that is the job of the PCB - they have done the best they can.

 

[Relic]

Musa - no.
The other two - yes.

I believe in the next 2-3 years they could actually become really good bowlers.

All that our bowling lineup needs is experience.

Our batting lineup needs a major overhaul

 

[Abdullah719]

Musa - no.
The other two - yes.

I believe in the next 2-3 years they could actually become really good bowlers.

All that our bowling lineup needs is experience.

Our batting lineup needs a major overhaul

Even if Musa isn't ready for this level, you blame the selection, not him.

 

[Relic]

Even if Musa isn't ready for this level, you blame the selection, not him.

Obviously. It's not Musa's fault that he got selected. He was probably surprised himself lol
By no I meant we shouldn't play him any more tests but he should be given support like any other cricketer in this world. Just because someone's not good doesn't mean you stop supporting them

 

[Pete Rose]

Most ppl fault their selection, not their performance.

 

[moghul]

We are not blaming the infant Musa , blaming those who are selecting him to fill men's shoes.

 

[Junaids]

But Amir and Wahab are in cricketing terms the generation which debuted in 2009 and 2010. Amir is secretly Wahab’s age, ie 33 or 34.

That still leaves a generation in between.!

Rahat Ali is 3 years younger - 31.

Ehsan Adil is a further 5 years younger than that 26.

Sameen Gul is is a further 6 years younger than that - 20 years old.

So there is an entire cricketing generation - 11 years of fast bowlers - that Misbah chose to ignore.

 

[MenInG]

What is most worrying is that we have PCB supposedly in-charge of the careers of these young bowlers.

This is the same organization where Hasan Ali's medical care has clearly been messed up and who have not been able to see that success has clearly gone through the head of one of their most promising young bowlers.

Where we have situation where their top 2 bowlers in terms of experience, Mohammad Amir and Wahab Riaz have simply been allowed to walk away from Test cricket without any scrutiny by the PCB. And then we have the case of Junaid Khan who has been messed around by selectors with feeble excuses to keep him out of the team.

And so our Test team needed someone to take the place of so much experience and these young men put up their hands in good faith and were chosen. They put in whatever effort they could but were found wanting as expected due to their inexperience.

We cannot in all honesty blame them.

 

[Relic]

But Amir and Wahab are in cricketing terms the generation which debuted in 2009 and 2010. Amir is secretly Wahab’s age, ie 33 or 34.

That still leaves a generation in between.!

Rahat Ali is 3 years younger - 31.

Ehsan Adil is a further 5 years younger than that 26.

Sameen Gul is is a further 6 years younger than that - 20 years old.

So there is an entire cricketing generation - 11 years of fast bowlers - that Misbah chose to ignore.

Misbah just doesn't want to leave Pakistan Cricket alone

 

[hur rizvi]

Musa is not ready and probably will never be good enough for test cricket

Naseem and shaheen are wonderful talents and should be persisted with. Both boys bowled better than men (ABBAS, Imran and Yasir )

 

[Abdullah]

I don't think the team is that much of a problem for the most part
Babar Shan imam Asad Rizwan naseem Shaheen Abbas. Nobody can complain about these selections.

There is enough there. It's the leadership and strategic side of things which has wonderfully been exposed

 

[sweep_shot]

Naseem is a really good prospect and he should be given a long run. Same with Shaheen.

Musa was disappointing and he should go back to domestic scene. He needs to earn his place.

Pakistan just have to find a good young spinner and one more pacer. They should be fine in Test then.

 

[Hyperion66]

Can't blame Shaheen as he bowled well in patches and took 3 wks, can't blame Abbas as the bounce didn't favor his type of bowling, can't blame Musa the debutant, can't blame Yasir away from UAE. Pakistani bowling is actually great it is a mystery why they keep hatching eggs in terms of performance.

That being said Shaheen isn't bad and Naseem if developed properly can be the next big thing from Pak. They should stay out of limelight and avoid media for the sake of their careers.

 

[Relic]

Can't blame Shaheen as he bowled well in patches and took 3 wks, can't blame Abbas as the bounce didn't favor his type of bowling, can't blame Musa the debutant, can't blame Yasir away from UAE. Pakistani bowling is actually great it is a mystery why they keep hatching eggs in terms of performance.

That being said Shaheen isn't bad and Naseem if developed properly can be the next big thing from Pak. They should stay out of limelight and avoid media for the sake of their careers.

Who said that we can't blame Abbas or Yasir??
Where do you get this from?

 

[Sin Nombre]

None of them should be playing including Shaheen.

Shaheen should be going on A tours like similar bowlers from Aus and India.

No one learns much from being hammered as part of a toothless attack.

 

[Hyperion66]

Who said that we can't blame Abbas or Yasir??
Where do you get this from?

I was talking about the overall bowling performance, my point being everyone including the young ones need to own it. Yasir and Abbas should never get a game again while Shaheen and Musa has to develop their skills to be on par with the world standard. They will not be young forever, they can get away with criticism today but if they don't evolve with time they'll will fade away just like numerous other bowlers who came before them. Early road blocks and troubles are part and parcel of the game, how are they are trying to overcome this will determine their future.

I hope this explains.

 

[Hyperion66]

Musa is not ready and probably will never be good enough for test cricket

Naseem and shaheen are wonderful talents and should be persisted with. Both boys bowled better than men (ABBAS, Imran and Yasir )

Even Shaheen isn't ready for test cricket, I just hope he doesn't lose focus. He should not be utilised as a workhorse, he is instinctively aggressive and a strike bowler but he lacks a certain skills which I am not sure he can develop if he is made part of a garbage attack so early in his career. Let him focus on loi for some time.

 

[King_Kohli]

Most ppl fault their selection, not their performance.

+1

No point of blaming youngsters, its completely selection mistake

 

[Fahdi]

Most ppl fault their selection, not their performance.

Yep.

 

[hur rizvi]

Even Shaheen isn't ready for test cricket, I just hope he doesn't lose focus. He should not be utilised as a workhorse, he is instinctively aggressive and a strike bowler but he lacks a certain skills which I am not sure he can develop if he is made part of a garbage attack so early in his career. Let him focus on loi for some time.

Obviously shahen is not a furnished product but he has the talent

He needs to play more long version cricket. I don’t think Pakistan afford to make him a limited overs specialist

Pakistan won’t be playing in Aus against Aus every day so shaheen will have his good days in tests.


Shaheen and Nasims workload actually should be lessened in Limited overs. I wouldn’t want nasim to play ODIs for now and shaheen should focus on tests and T20s


For tests: shaheen, Naseem, sameen gul and Ehsan Adil should rotate

For ODis Haris rauf, shinwari, Amir, Wahab Hasnain and Musa should rotate and play

For T20s: shaheen, Haris rauf, Amir, Wahab


Despite all the depression I think Pakistan have lot of good fast bowlers available at the moment and it’s just about developing them and handling them well

 

[Realromeo]

Did Musa and Naseem even go on an A tour ?

 

[Hasan123]

If you are not performing you will be criticised. You can say they are youngsters but I don't see anything wrong in saying what they did wrong and where they can improve.

 

[pakistanisgreat]

Did Musa and Naseem even go on an A tour ?

The problem is we are going after Pace. yes pace is a plus factor but it is not everything. We need to teach them swing, control, line, length. At this moment even if you can bowl 140 plus they will select you.

 

[Junaids]

I’m literally one metre from Musa and Naseem in the lobby.

They are both almost equally tiny. And Naseem is walking extremely gingerly.

Neither has the physique for Test cricket currently.

There are two PCB minders ten feet away, but they are letting the players associate with older Pakistanis. Like 2010 never happened.

 

[Junaids]

To clarify the above, I reckon that Musa is 5’7 and Naseem is between 5’8 and 5’9.

I had hoped that Naseem was at least as tall as Ryan Harris and Dale Steyn, but he just isn’t. Weirdly, that was a crushing disappointment.

Naseem has all the tools he needs except height. I’ve now seen it with my own eyes: he is shorter than any successful Test fast bowler since World War 2.

You should have seen the body language of the two bowlers. They both look broken: taking them prematurely on this tour has really sent them backwards.

I also noted that they are not socialising with the twenty-somethings who would normally be the core of the team - Babar, Shaheen and Rizwan (not that there are many twenty-something’s in this squad!)

And as always, for the last three days, the thirty-something’s are a closed clique with Misbah on the edge of it.

This is a demoralised team, fractured into Misbah’s veterans, Mickey’s boys and the orphaned kids.

Waqar has just walked past with his family. He’s smiling!

 

[hafizexpress]

To clarify the above, I reckon that Musa is 5’7 and Naseem is between 5’8 and 5’9.

I had hoped that Naseem was at least as tall as Ryan Harris and Dale Steyn, but he just isn’t. Weirdly, that was a crushing disappointment.

Naseem has all the tools he needs except height. I’ve now seen it with my own eyes: he is shorter than any successful Test fast bowler since World War 2.

You should have seen the body language of the two bowlers. They both look broken: taking them prematurely on this tour has really sent them backwards.

I also noted that they are not socialising with the twenty-somethings who would normally be the core of the team - Babar, Shaheen and Rizwan (not that there are many twenty-something’s in this squad!)

And as always, for the last three days, the thirty-something’s are a closed clique with Misbah on the edge of it.

This is a demoralised team, fractured into Misbah’s veterans, Mickey’s boys and the orphaned kids.

Waqar has just walked past with his family. He’s smiling!

LOL this sounds like you're lowkey spying on them like a spy agent and doing a live commentary on each of their moves xDxD

 

[MMHS]

To clarify the above, I reckon that Musa is 5’7 and Naseem is between 5’8 and 5’9.

I had hoped that Naseem was at least as tall as Ryan Harris and Dale Steyn, but he just isn’t. Weirdly, that was a crushing disappointment.

Naseem has all the tools he needs except height. I’ve now seen it with my own eyes: he is shorter than any successful Test fast bowler since World War 2.

You should have seen the body language of the two bowlers. They both look broken: taking them prematurely on this tour has really sent them backwards.

I also noted that they are not socialising with the twenty-somethings who would normally be the core of the team - Babar, Shaheen and Rizwan (not that there are many twenty-something’s in this squad!)

And as always, for the last three days, the thirty-something’s are a closed clique with Misbah on the edge of it.

This is a demoralised team, fractured into Misbah’s veterans, Mickey’s boys and the orphaned kids.

Waqar has just walked past with his family. He’s smiling!

Quite surprising indeed - about two weeks back, I read here from Masood that PAK dressing room is a happy place now...... that Aussie tour must have started to take its toll.

 

[shah_1]

To clarify the above, I reckon that Musa is 5’7 and Naseem is between 5’8 and 5’9.

I had hoped that Naseem was at least as tall as Ryan Harris and Dale Steyn, but he just isn’t. Weirdly, that was a crushing disappointment.

Naseem has all the tools he needs except height. I’ve now seen it with my own eyes: he is shorter than any successful Test fast bowler since World War 2.

You should have seen the body language of the two bowlers. They both look broken: taking them prematurely on this tour has really sent them backwards.

I also noted that they are not socialising with the twenty-somethings who would normally be the core of the team - Babar, Shaheen and Rizwan (not that there are many twenty-something’s in this squad!)

And as always, for the last three days, the thirty-something’s are a closed clique with Misbah on the edge of it.

This is a demoralised team, fractured into Misbah’s veterans, Mickey’s boys and the orphaned kids.

Waqar has just walked past with his family. He’s smiling!

Right about Naseem's height

 

[Realromeo]

The problem is we are going after Pace. yes pace is a plus factor but it is not everything. We need to teach them swing, control, line, length. At this moment even if you can bowl 140 plus they will select you.

Damn, not even without an A tour ? I mean was Amir, Waqar and Wasim selected the same way ?

 

[pakistanisgreat]

Damn, not even without an A tour ? I mean was Amir, Waqar and Wasim selected the same way ?

I am not sure about wasim and waqar. If you listen to IK stories on youtube, it seems like they are selected the same way. Amir i believe was selected after under 19 tour.
Second we hardly have any A tour.

 

[Abdullah719]

Damn, not even without an A tour ? I mean was Amir, Waqar and Wasim selected the same way ?

Pakistan have very few A tours anyway.

 

[coy0607]

Blaming Naseem Shah, Shaheen or Musa is just stupid. Shaheen has been the best bowler on tour, Naseem was pretty electric, Musa bowled his heart out but was disappointing overall - still he should never have been selected in the first place, not his fault at all.

Waqar has been destroying Pakistani fast bowlers for generations now, and Misbah is absolutely clueless, selecting 18-20 years old debutants on literally the toughest tour Pakistan

 

[shah_1]

Pakistan have very few A tours anyway.

One of the problems

You got to spend money to get results otherwise accept mediocrity

Domestic performance --->A tour performance--->selection for Pakistan

A tours help refine selection in the best possible manner

 

[Saj]

In an ideal world Naseem or Musa wouldn't be on this tour, they'd be learning their trade in domestic cricket.

You have to look at the planners, the selectors, the previous coaches, the previous captains and the players themselves as to why some of the more established bowlers are not in Australia at the moment.

 

[blackanhyellow]

Shaheen in my opinion is already ready for this level.

However, he is not ready to be the leader of the bowling attack yet.

That is where the problem is, totally thrown in to the deep end.

For example, if Aus wanted to try out a new bowler, they would rotate out starc.

Therefore the new bowler would support an attack consisting of the new bowler, cummins, hazelwood, lyon.

If that new bowler did get smashed, the other bowlers would bring the rate back down by picking up wickets, after which the new bowler wouldnt be under so much pressure.

In our scenario, the whole bowling attack barring yasir was inexperienced. So everyone was getting smashed. There was a lot of pressure on the bowlers.

 

[MenInG]

Wahab and Amir had no reason to leave other than financial considerations, imo. They could have stayed on to help the younger bowlers but they chose to walk away. Huge investment gone into Amir and Wahab by the PCB (all camps, tours etc) - so they needed to payback but didnt