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Brian Lara and Sachin Tendulkar's stats vs best bowlers

miandadrules said:
Are there any non ethnic-indians defending Tendulkar?
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At least Sachin's own countrymen are defending him. Have you seen a single WI fan in this thread so far ? But pak fans are doing just about everything they can to defend Lara in this thread .
 
Acricketfan said:
At least Sachin's own countrymen are defending him. Have you seen a single WI fan in this thread so far ? But pak fans are doing just about everything they can to defend Lara in this thread .
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[MENTION=138228]TestMatch[/MENTION] is one
 
Chrish said:
Facing Donald on bouncy SA wickets is infinitely more difficult than facing him on roads in India.. Evan a person with single brain cell left would realize that..

The same way he performed better against Steyn on bouncy SA wickets than on roads in India (57.75 in Sa vs 53.25 in India).. It shows versatility of a player and proves he was never dependent on wicket conditions like most other batsmen are.. The only other player who has shown the same ability was Steve Waugh.

If he was just averaging 1 run more at home compared to away, I can see ppl here asking for his blood and calling him ftb!

As for why I bring up two Ws in here, well as per the title of this thread, we are discussing these players' record against main bowlers. For Lara there is enough sample size, for SRT there isn't.

But SRT has done well against all ATG bowlers whom Lara never faced (Steyn/ Walsh/ Ambrose).

If it makes you uncomfortable, there is very little I can do about it.
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A failure is a failure be it in South Africa or India. But as expected you're trying to brush it under the carpet.

An average of 26 indicates versatility?

Steyn never bowled against Lara, so there is nothing to compare.

Lara faced the 2 Ws at their absolute best, whereas Tendulkar didn't. So we can't compare the two.

I'm not uncomfortable at all, I am merely asking you to show some consistency Mr Neutrality. Why is it so hard for you to do?
 
Acricketfan said:
At least Sachin's own countrymen are defending him. Have you seen a single WI fan in this thread so far ? But pak fans are doing just about everything they can to defend Lara in this thread .
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Pak fans have the right to do whatever they like. And most of the Pak fans are questioning the reasoning used by the Indians rather than trying to prove who is better.

Your on a Pakistani site, so you will more than likely see their views. And how are they doing everything they can?
 
Acricketfan said:
At least Sachin's own countrymen are defending him. Have you seen a single WI fan in this thread so far ? But pak fans are doing just about everything they can to defend Lara in this thread .
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Reminds me of the McGrath v Wasim thread.
 
Acricketfan said:
pak fans are doing just about everything they can to defend Lara in this thread .
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This is personal, this WAR for them... I dont think the WI supporters feel this passionate about Lara, we all know why Pakistanis behave this way :P :angel:..
 
Romali_rotti said:
This is personal, this WAR for them... I dont think the WI supporters feel this passionate about Lara, we all know why Pakistanis behave this way :P :angel:..
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Classy.

So there must be an agenda. However, the reverse can't be true?
 
miandadrules said:
A failure is a failure be it in South Africa or India. But as expected you're trying to brush it under the carpet.

An average of 26 indicates versatility?

Steyn never bowled against Lara, so there is nothing to compare.

Lara faced the 2 Ws at their absolute best, whereas Tendulkar didn't. So we can't compare the two.

I'm not uncomfortable at all, I am merely asking you to show some consistency Mr Neutrality. Why is it so hard for you to do?
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A failure in your own backyard is not the same as failure away.. So, please spare me the BS. I know that you aren't that stupid as you are acting right now..

Ponting averaged in 20s against Bhajan in India while in 60s at home.. If it was the opposite, not many people would have raised eyebrows. But he failed where it mattered which is away from home.

Irrelevant. Steyn is a top tier GOAT, arguably even better than Donald. Why should he be discounted? Because it doesn't suit your agenda?

It's not Sachin's fault that he didn't play two Ws.. So, should we just assume he would have failed against them just because Lara did too?

Mate you might wanna contain your desperation before it gets out of hand..
 
Chrish said:
A failure in your own backyard is not the same as failure away.. So, please spare me the BS. I know that you aren't that stupid as you are acting right now..

Ponting averaged in 20s against Bhajan in India while in 60s at home.. If it was the opposite, not many people would have raised eyebrows. But he failed where it mattered which is away from home.

Irrelevant. Steyn is a top tier GOAT, arguably even better than Donald. Why should he be discounted? Because it doesn't suit your agenda?

It's not Sachin's fault that he didn't play two Ws.. So, should we just assume he would have failed against them just because Lara did too?

Mate you might wanna contain your desperation before it gets out of hand..
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A failure is a failure.

Mr Neutrality have you ever thought that Steyn bowled to Tendulkar in far more benign batting conditions than Donald did?

We can't assume anything. We certainly can't say because Lara struggled against them that Tendulkar had the advantage. It's not Lara's fault than Tendulkar never faced the two most destructive bowlers of his era for an entire decade.

Yep, you're right my desperation is getting out of hand. I mean it's desperate to try and seek an explanation of an average of 26. Maybe I should should brush it off and release myself of this desperation?
 
miandadrules said:
. I'd rather deal with facts. .
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Yes agreed, fact are Pakistanis in most cases will pick Lara when SRT is put in the equation..This is war, this personal for you :P... I am starting to think Lara has a bigger fan base in Pakistan than his home country, some credit should be given to SRT for this Lara worship .............. :angel:
 
Romali_rotti said:
Yes agreed, fact are Pakistanis in most cases will pick Lara when SRT is put in the equation..This is war, this personal for you :P... I am starting to think Lara has a bigger fan base in Pakistan than his home country, some credit should be given to SRT for this Lara worship .............. :angel:
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Is it now?

Is the reverse true also?
 
Romali_rotti said:
So you have no major stats proving Wasim was better than Mcgrath ........... Ahhh all good..
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Facts is most Indians will pick McGrath when Wasim is put in the equation. This is war, this personal for you ... I am starting to think McGrath has a bigger fan base in India than his home country, some credit should be given to Wasim for this McGrath worship ..............
 
miandadrules said:
Is it now?

Is the reverse true also?
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Not really, lots of Indians rate Lara and SRT at same level... I myself have always acknowledged both Lara and SRT are in the same category and it is just a matter of preference you cant go wrong with either. I like more elegance hence I will pick SRT, people who like flare will pick Lara..
 
ChachaCricket said:
Facts is most Indians will pick McGrath when Wasim is put in the equation. This is war, this personal for you ... I am starting to think McGrath has a bigger fan base in India than his home country, some credit should be given to Wasim for this McGrath worship ..............
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Mcgrath avgs 18 in India, what does Wasim Avg in India again ? :angel:
 
Romali_rotti said:
Not really, lots of Indians rate Lara and SRT at same level... I myself have always acknowledged both Lara and SRT are in the same category and it is just a matter of preference you cant go wrong with either. I like more elegance hence I will pick SRT, people who like flare will pick Lara..
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So when I state the same thing in this very thread, it must be my Pakistani nationality that makes it a personal war?

Speaks volumes about your preconceived notions.
 
miandadrules said:
So when I state the same thing in this very thread, it must be my Pakistani nationality that makes it a personal war?

Speaks volumes about your preconceived notions.
Click to expand...

I have read the posts you made and what you said... Ok now repeat after me if you really did say the same thing (type this out in your next post): I acknowledge Lara and SRT are in the same category, it is a matter of preference you cant go wrong with either, I like Flare hence I will pick Lara.
 
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miandadrules said:
A failure is a failure.

Mr Neutrality have you ever thought that Steyn bowled to Tendulkar in far more benign batting conditions than Donald did?

We can't assume anything. We certainly can't say because Lara struggled against them that Tendulkar had the advantage. It's not Lara's fault than Tendulkar never faced the two most destructive bowlers of his era for an entire decade.

Yep, you're right my desperation is getting out of hand. I mean it's desperate to try and seek an explanation of an average of 26. Maybe I should should brush it off and release myself of this desperation?
Click to expand...

Yeah, since Jayawardene averages 59.72 at home, his average of 39.71 in away/ neutral venues become completely irrelevant, right?

You are absolutely right.. The pitch conditions were so benign that no one other than SRT managed to score a single 100 from Indian side. Facing Steyn in the form of his like was walk in the park for every Indian batsman.

You are once again right.. What does trundlers like Steyn/ Walsh/ Ambrose have on two Ws?

He displayed ability to play him in far more difficult conditions.. Didn't do well in easier conditions. And even if we accept that, what about Lara's poor away record against all the ATG bowlers ?
 
Chrish said:
Yeah, since Jayawardene averages 59.72 at home, his average of 39.71 in away/ neutral venues become completely irrelevant, right?

You are absolutely right.. The pitch conditions were so benign that no one other than SRT managed to score a single 100 from Indian side. Facing Steyn in the form of his like was walk in the park for every Indian batsman.

You are once again right.. What does trundlers like Steyn/ Walsh/ Ambrose have on two Ws?

He displayed ability to play him in far more difficult conditions.. Didn't do well in easier conditions. And even if we accept that, what about Lara's poor away record against all the ATG bowlers ?
Click to expand...

Oozing neutrality.
 
Chrish said:
Yeah, since Jayawardene averages 59.72 at home, his average of 39.71 in away/ neutral venues become completely irrelevant, right?

You are absolutely right.. The pitch conditions were so benign that no one other than SRT managed to score a single 100 from Indian side. Facing Steyn in the form of his like was walk in the park for every Indian batsman.

You are once again right.. What does trundlers like Steyn/ Walsh/ Ambrose have on two Ws?

He displayed ability to play him in far more difficult conditions.. Didn't do well in easier conditions. And even if we accept that, what about Lara's poor away record against all the ATG bowlers ?
Click to expand...

Didn't do so well is not the same as poor is it?

Once again why are you trying to brush the failure under the carpet?

So now the conditions are only benign when all Indian batsmen, who have historically failed overseas, score?

What relevance does facing Steyn have to facing Waqar and Wasim on surfaces conducive to reverse swing? Did Tendulkar face them for a decade?
 
Romali_rotti said:
I have read the posts you made and what you said... Ok now repeat after me if you really did say the same thing (type this out in your next post): I acknowledge Lara and SRT are in the same category, it is a matter of preference you cant go wrong with either, I like Flare hence I will pick Lara.
Click to expand...

My view is summed up in post 358.

Unfortunately, I won't be patronised by a mental midget.
 
Romali_rotti said:
What about the fact Mcgrath has better stats vs every other oppositions as well in comparison to Wasim ?



























Yeap waiting for the next set of excuses... :P
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Not disputing that. My views on the two are clearly expressed in the thread in question.
 
Chrish said:
I am only upset about quality poster submitting to trolls.. I don't expect anything better from other posters

As far as the overall discussion in this thread goes, I haven't bothered to read half of the posts here.. No point as it was only gonna be pi!ss contest btw two sides
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If marking the weak points of an argument is equal to submission to trolls, then let it be.

I don't know whats bothering you but thats just another day on PP. I have done the same thing before, and we have difference of opinion in other threads, but have never seen you be so sensitive about the discussion, picking my statements out of context to say that I am knowingly misleading others, when I am making a fair enough point and still waiting for the answer.
 
Stallion__ said:
If marking the weak points of an argument is equal to submission to trolls, then let it be.

I don't know whats bothering you but thats just another day on PP. I have done the same thing before, and we have difference of opinion in other threads, but have never seen you be so sensitive about the discussion, picking my statements out of context to say that I am knowingly misleading others, when I am making a fair enough point and still waiting for the answer.
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He's taken it to a whole new level.
 
miandadrules said:
Didn't do so well is not the same as poor is it?

Once again why are you trying to brush the failure under the carpet?

So now the conditions are only benign when all Indian batsmen, who have historically failed overseas, score?

What relevance does facing Steyn have to facing Waqar and Wasim on surfaces conducive to reverse swing? Did Tendulkar face them for a decade?
Click to expand...


SRT and two Ws didn't face each other so there is no room for speculation as to who would have upper hand. I have no clue what you are arguing about.

It's not SRT's fault that Lara didn't play those bowlers and it's also not his fault he didn't face two Pak players. This thread is about these two players vs best bowlers so any top bowlers faced by these two would be counted.

With your IQ I understated it would be difficult for you to determine which conditions are difficult and which aren't, but if you have bothered to check series results, you would understand in almost all previous series, at least some other batsman other than SRT scored 100. But not in that series as it was much more difficult facing an ATG pacer in full flow.

You can stop acting like an imbecile as I won't humor you any longer.. Have a nice day!
 
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miandadrules said:
My view is summed up in post 358.

Unfortunately, I won't be patronised by a mental midget.
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Apologies, did not see post 358.. You did sort of express similar views while making one look out of this planet while the other was human but in a nice way :angel:. This is difference between me and you, to me the only thing that separates them is their batting style, Elegance vs Flare they are equal in my eyes for everything else..
 
@miandad,

So I got it wrong, my apologies. in 2001 test series their was no hundred.

So Lara is ahead of Tendulkar in terms of facing 2 W's at their peak, better average with Donald, played Murali better than Sachin. Lara also has a better average against Australia.

Lara has played that icnonic 153, which for you is a prerequisite for a batsman to have an innings against the odds.

On the balance, he was never consistent, and his averages at certain periods reflect that.

Also on the balance like you stated with Tendulkar not facing 2 W's at their peak, the same could be said Sachin faced 3 more dominant bowlers in Ambrose, Walsh, Steyn. He did play Wasim, Waqur in 89, 99.
 
Chrish said:
SRT and two Ws didn't face each other so there is no room for speculation as to who would have upper hand. I have no clue what you are arguing about.

It's not SRT's fault that Lara didn't play those bowlers and it's also not his fault he didn't face two Pak players. This thread is about these two players vs best bowlers so any top bowlers faced by these two would be counted.

With your IQ I understated it would be difficult for you yo determine which conditions are difficult and which aren't, but if you have bothered to check series results, you would understand in almost all previous series, at least some other batsman other than SRT scored 100. But not in that series as it was much more difficult facing an ATG pacer in full flow.

You can stop acting like an imbecile as I won't humor you any longer.. Have a nice day!
Click to expand...

It's not Lara's fault Tendulkar didn't get to face the 2 Ws, so we can't extrapolate whether he could have done any better.

Of course the pitches were conveniently more difficult when he scored against Steyn. Does that mean when he scored against Donald on far easier surfaces? you can't have it both ways.

You seem to be very concerned with my IQ. I tell you what, I am more than willing to have my IQ measured against yours openly on this forum.

Also, it's kind of futile throwing insults at me from behind a computer screen. If you wish you can freely throwing at me in person too.
 
Rickz said:
@miandad,

So I got it wrong, my apologies. in 2001 test series their was no hundred.

So Lara is ahead of Tendulkar in terms of facing 2 W's at their peak, better average with Donald, played Murali better than Sachin. Lara also has a better average against Australia.

Lara has played that icnonic 153, which for you is a prerequisite for a batsman to have an innings against the odds.

On the balance, he was never consistent, and his averages at certain periods reflect that.

Also on the balance like you stated with Tendulkar not facing 2 W's at their peak, the same could be said Sachin faced 3 more dominant bowlers in Ambrose, Walsh, Steyn. He did play Wasim, Waqur in 89, 99.
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No he isn't better against 2 Ws. I never said anything of the sort. He was poor against them in Tests, but Sachin never faced them in the same period, so there is no way of comparing them against the two Pakistanis.

Facing the 2Ws in 89 and 99 is a whole universe away from facing them from 1991-97/8.

My views on the two are expressed in post 358.

I'm not stating that Lara would have been successful against Ambrose, Walsh and Steyn. There is no way of knowing.

I have at no point try to diminish Tendulkar's achievements against the top bowlers. I merely asking Sachin's fans to apply the same criteria for both in a reasoned and fair manner.
 
Stats are not everything.
Most matches..most runs..blah bla bla.
Lara >> :srt
 
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Romali_rotti said:
Apologies, did not see post 358.. You did sort of express similar views while making one look out of this planet while the other was human but in a nice way :angel:. This is difference between me and you, to me the only thing that separates them is their batting style, Elegance vs Flare they are equal in my eyes for everything else..
Click to expand...

Well, I'm sorry but Tendulkar didn't have the kind of peaks that Lara did. Lara has done things no other batsmen has.

Now, I am sorry that offends you but you need to take that up with Tendulkar and not me. Maybe he can explain to you why he couldn't break records like Lara did or have those iconic innings.

Only someone that has warped sense of reality would take a statement such "Tendulkar could be counted on being great day in, day out" as an insult and a human trait. Considering there have probably only ever been 25 ATG batsmen ever, only someone with a complete bias would see that as a negative statement.
 
Fair point.

I am trying to be fair and reasonable.

So Lara faced the 2 W's at their peak, in contrast Sachin did not.

Lara has a better average against Donald and when facing Warne, McGrath. Lara also has played that great innings under pressure.

Here is an interesting article regarding the top bowlers each two faced, again, Tendulkar did not face Wasim, Waqur at their peak:

http://www.sportskeeda.com/cricket/lara-vs-sachin
 
miandadrules said:
Well, I'm sorry but Tendulkar didn't have the kind of peaks that Lara did. Lara has done things no other batsmen has.

Now, I am sorry that offends you but you need to take that up with Tendulkar and not me. Maybe he can explain to you why he couldn't break records like Lara did or have those iconic innings.

Offend me ? lol I am not offended, I believe credit should be given where it is due. Lara and SRT for me are on level playing fields, only un human innings Lara had was the 400 rest were all humane. SRT's consistency, avging 40 against all test playing nations with the fact he scored 100, 100s, discipline and performing with the expectations of 1 billion ppl on his shoulder was as unhuman as it came. However you wont hear me make excuses such as; 'Oh Oh OH but but SRT faced a weaker 2Ws', to me the difference is elegance vs flair......

.
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.....
 
lol the same 2 insecure individuals with their knickers in a twist. :angel:
 
Romali_rotti said:
Vice Versa ? :))) Umm naturally Indian fans would support SRT (their own countrymen) lol.. :)).. However Pakistanis going to war for a West Indian all because SRT is India ,, Awwww its cuteee .....
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It indeed is cute.

Wasim v McGrath/Donald/Ambrose - Anyone barring Wasim is better.

Same goes for Waqar, Akhtar and Imran. You guys will pick anyone but them.

Don't try to act innocent and impartial.
 
Hawkeye said:
It indeed is cute.

Wasim v McGrath/Donald/Ambrose - Anyone barring Wasim is better.

Same goes for Waqar, Akhtar and Imran. You guys will pick anyone but them.

Don't try to act innocent and impartial.
Click to expand...

Look it really comes down to stats, Mcgrath is the best fast bowler for me. Imran is in the top 3 ATG bowlers, Waqar I dont rate sorry lol...
 
Acricketfan said:
At least Sachin's own countrymen are defending him. Have you seen a single WI fan in this thread so far ? But pak fans are doing just about everything they can to defend Lara in this thread .
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That's because there are very very few of their on this forum. Very poor logic.:facepalm:
 
Hawkeye said:
It indeed is cute.

Wasim v McGrath/Donald/Ambrose - Anyone barring Wasim is better.

Same goes for Waqar, Akhtar and Imran. You guys will pick anyone but them.

Don't try to act innocent and impartial.
Click to expand...


Indeed, Indians have shown their colours on the bowling comparison threads with their outrageous statements. Pure bias and jealousy. It's pretty rich for them to be complaining in this thread:)).
 
Lara was the superior Test player. Just like AB is the superior ODI player compared to Sachin. I know it's hard for you Indians to take, but you need to wake up and smell the coffee.
 
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