'Bumrah has less threatening performances than Shaheen in all formats' : Aaqib Javed

[Marooned]

Shaheen may easily surpass all current seamers in limited overs .

Although shaheen has bowled pretty well in Asia, he is yet to perform vs top oppositions in the test format. He will do that eventually as he has alot of years left in him.

I dont think comparisons can be made as of now

The thing is Bumrah has never ever played on some of the pancakes Shaheen has. Bumrah has never bowled on the kind of filth Shaheen had to in the recent Australia series. I mean these were some of the deadest pitches ever. I'd like to see how Bumrah would do on such pitches.

Bumrah played 1 match in challenging conditions in Chennai vs england, and was outbowled by a cloud bully.

People often compare their Australia stats as if they are the same thing. Shaheen had to bowl on ruthless pancakes where Yasir Shah was battling like Younis Khan and even Cummins averaged 32.
In 2021 Aus-Ind series though, Cummins and Hazlewood averaged 20, while Bumrah close to 30.

Similarly, in NZ, Bumrah got a seamers paradise (all Nz pacemen averaged in teens) but for pakistan, the pitches were far different. Boult averaged 30, Southee 35.


I hear you make a reference to 'top opposition'. Well Bumrah has mostly feasted against weak teams too.

When he faced a pathetic Australia batting of Marshes and finches and Handscombes, he averaged in teens but when faced with a much stronger batting in 2021, his average was close to 30 (Both Cummins and Hazlewood averaged 20 )

He was able to have good success against England (one of the worst batting units around currently) but when faced with a much better batting unit in NZ in similar bowling friendly conditions , he averaged 32 (all 3 NZ pacemen averaged in teens).

He has only played against 2 'top' batting lineups in his career (Aus 21 and NZ 20) and hasn't been earth shattering despite far more favorable conditions than what Shaheen has had.

Mic drop.

 

[Hextro]

Amir or a lot of Pakistan bowlers these days can’t cut it in a Bumrah type schedule. Proof is in the pudding.

As a cricket fan I have seen Pak tours of Aus and Nzl recently.

Look at the Indian attack hunting in packs (while I do admit out batting sucks these days) and compare it to Warner, Jamieson etc making hay against Pakistanis in their second spells after their intensity runs out after the opening spells.

God knows where this superficiality comes from.

I guess we have made baby steps progress from Bumrah is totally useless to Bumrah is better in tests. Work in progress but we will get there.

You can go and do any gymnastics with numbers, Pak test attack and even odi attack where England C was smashing their bowlers has been pedestrian outside of WT20 which was in favorable UAE conditions which has been home for the Pakistan cricketer over a decade now. Well done there.

Again with the excuses. "Amir or a lot of Pakistan bowlers these days can’t cut it in a Bumrah type schedule."

Number of overs bowled since Shaheen's debut.

Shaheen - 1190.2
JJ Bumrah - 1286.3

You started calling Amir a toddler because of his pace, I just proved to you that Amir bowled just as quick if not quicker than Bumrah post comeback. Since you were happy to Amir a toddler that bowls at baby pace shouldn't you also call Bumrah a toddler that bowls at baby pace? You'd be a hypocrite otherwise.

 

[BreadPakoda]

From this..

Its a good thing that I know my stats so that I can call out suff like this.

The samples you are using are extremely small, using small samples can easily misinform people. Bumrah has only played 4 tests in 2022, 2 of which were against Sri Lanka....

To sharing data from 1 match each, lol. No wonder its so tiring talking to you.

It's funny that you think Amir is a toddler post comeback.

These are Bumrah's speeds in west indies series 2019.

1st Test: avg/highest

1st innings- 133.9/141.7
2nd innings- 134.5/139.0

These are Amir's speeds in Eng-Pak series 2018.

1st Test: avg/highest

1st innings- 137.7/143.3
2nd innings- 139.5/145.7

Bumrah must also qualify as a toddler in your expert opinion, right?

Keep in mind these are post comeback speeds for Amir. Amir was consistently bowling over 145kph and even hitting 150kph pre ban, saying that he wasn't affected after not playing cricket for 5 years would be either delusional or just a lack of knowledge about sport and the human body.

 

[Hextro]

From this..



To sharing data from 1 match each, lol. No wonder its so tiring talking to you.

I couldn't bother looking for more matches to compare their speeds. If you think Bumrah is faster than Amir how about you compile a dataset set of over 100 matches and compare their speeds? You won't like the results.

 

[NishanKonar]

From this..



To sharing data from 1 match each, lol. No wonder its so tiring talking to you.

When Pakistan toured South Africa in 2019 , their captain Sarafaraz publicly lamented that his pace bowlers ( Amir, Shaheen , Hasan ) were so slow compared to South African pace attack

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

Why don't you apply the same logic on Pant vs Rizwan?

I called Shaheen a 22 year old baby because fans like you call 24 year old Pant a baby too. Shaheen is playing county cricket. What is Pant doing these days?

 

[TheSultan]

When Pakistan toured South Africa in 2019 , their captain Sarafaraz publicly lamented that his pace bowlers ( Amir, Shaheen , Hasan ) were so slow compared to South African pace attack

He did and rightly so, but he only lamented them because he knew they could bowl faster.

A lot of it was directed at Amir whose pace was pitiful in that series.

 

[MenInG]

5/10 in 4 overs - Bumrah

Stat: Best T20 bowling figures for Bumrah

5/10 vs KKR Mumbai DYP 2022
4/14 vs DC Dubai 2020
4/20 vs RR Abu Dhabi 2020


Jasprit Bumrah tonight:

4,0,1,0,0,0,0,W,2,1,W,1,W,0,W,W,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,1 - 5/10

 

[MenInG]

Abdul Razzaq with similar views as Aaqib:

"Shaheen bahut accha hai, Bumrah toh uske paas bhi nahi aata (Shaheen is very good. Bumrah doesn't come near him)

When asked, who was better among Naseem Shah, Haris Rauf and Shaheen, Razzaq replied: "All three are good."

 

[Bhaijaan]

We will take that over the Kingslayer.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Abdul Razzaq with similar views as Aaqib:

"Shaheen bahut accha hai, Bumrah toh uske paas bhi nahi aata (Shaheen is very good. Bumrah doesn't come near him)

When asked, who was better among Naseem Shah, Haris Rauf and Shaheen, Razzaq replied: "All three are good."

Well Shehzad is more talented than Tendulkar also eh ?

Challenge for Shaheen is to at least be better than peak Zaheer Khan.

 

[Bhaijaan]

Well Shehzad is more talented than Tendulkar also eh ?

Challenge for Shaheen is to at least be better than peak Zaheer Khan.

The way it’s going he might retire as Pakistan’s Rudra Pratap Singh

 

[RyanRyan10]

The way it’s going he might retire as Pakistan’s Rudra Pratap Singh

Rudra Pratap Singh won us a T20 WC. Was part of team which won test series in Eng and also a test in Perth. Didn't expect you to insult him like this.

 

[Bhaijaan]

Rudra Pratap Singh won us a T20 WC. Was part of team which won test series in Eng and also a test in Perth. Didn't expect you to insult him like this.

From a statistical pov I meant.
Of course RP bhai is a proven champion.

What has SSA won in his career.

 

[Varun]

What a juicy thread - the first 2 pages of it.

Reminded me of the good old days, when Pakistan fans stood firmly behind their cricketers.

Unfortunately Shaheen is yet another one who has fallen by the wayside.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

On the Shaheen and Bumrah comparison, this is pointless. Neither have played 30 tests and bumrah is on the decline.

So Shaheen staying fit he will easily surpass bumrah - it’s not rocket science it’s just simple logic

Coming back to read these posts is what makes PP so addictive.

 

[TheSultan]

Coming back to read these posts is what makes PP so addictive.

Fair call out. But remember careers haven’t ended yet. Although Bumrah has returned from injury a lot better than Shaheen.

My clause stands. “If Shaheen had stayed fit”. He hasn’t.

 

[Theanonymousone]

Please do not insult Waqar again.

You can criticise his coaching, no problem. Criticise his commentary, I certainly do.

But don’t compare him to baby pace and baby swing

This is the common issue among Pakistan coaches/fans that pace is the best.

Pakistan’s best is Wasim, not Shoaib
Brett lee doesnt come near to Macgrath.

140+ is not a baby pace and Bumrah’s action makes him gain about 0.5-1 inch which makes him effectively 145+ and this was mentioned widely by cricket Pundits.

Just been 2 years and see where Bumrah is. Except for Pakistan’s ex-cricketers, no one would rate SSA above Bumrah. Not before 2 years, not now.

Bumrah single handedly won the WT20 2024 for India. He now have legit achievements to be compared with the best in the business. Even if he ends his career now, he will just be below Macgrath and Wasim in comparisons among ATG’s.

 

[Theanonymousone]

Fair call out. But remember careers haven’t ended yet. Although Bumrah has returned from injury a lot better than Shaheen.

My clause stands. “If Shaheen had stayed fit”. He hasn’t.

I dont see Shaheen struggling with injury now. He lost his bowling form, pace. He never had much arsenal in his bowling except that inswing at the start of the game.

And he is not dropped now because he is unfit right? So, he had regained his fitness I presume but lost his form which are both different things.

 

[rpant_gabba]

Fair call out. But remember careers haven’t ended yet. Although Bumrah has returned from injury a lot better than Shaheen.

My clause stands. “If Shaheen had stayed fit”. He hasn’t.

Fact is Shaheen is one trick pony with very little bowling IQ

 

[rpant_gabba]

I called Shaheen a 22 year old baby because fans like you call 24 year old Pant a baby too. Shaheen is playing county cricket. What is Pant doing these days?

what a good indian fan and a great human being. supporting a player who was recovering from a horrific accident.

BTW, how you liking the the situation now?

 

[Mp812]

Agreed. Of late Shaheen threatens a lot but hardly delivers. With Bumrah its opposite.

 

[Varun]

Reality is Bumrah is actually unproven at test level, poor in ODIs and declining in T20s. Show me 300 tests wickets and we can talk.

Haha! Such posts earlier on this thread are hilarious to read.

 

[Master Blaster]

"Bumrah has less threatening performances than Shaheen in all formats".

He also has less threatening performances against his skippers and teammates in the dressing room.

 

[TheSultan]

Haha! Such posts earlier on this thread are hilarious to read.

I stand by that post. Show me 300 wickets. Then talk nah.

The guy had a good world T20, fair play. Good on him, well done. But t20wc’s are dime a dozen now.

He still needs to prove he can do it over a career. Tbf it’s more likely than not, I’ll give you that, but my statement is correct

 

[Hitman]

I stand by that post. Show me 300 wickets. Then talk nah.

The guy had a good world T20, fair play. Good on him, well done. But t20wc’s are dime a dozen now.

He still needs to prove he can do it over a career. Tbf it’s more likely than not, I’ll give you that, but my statement is correct

'Awww, mere se bowling nahin ho rahi hain'.

How many Test wickets did he take?

 

[Buffet]

The guy had a good world T20, fair play. Good on him, well done. But t20wc’s are dime a dozen now.

I think he has done enough in test to not be judged by his shorter formats exploits.

He has been the best Asian bowler by some margin when traveling outside Asia. A lot more to do for sure, but I don't think he needs to get 300 wickets to be rated in test cricket. He has so many match changing spells outside Asia in his short career.



He can be surely judged based on what he has done in test so far without relying on ODT/T20. Yes, he is probably the best shorter format bowler in history, but he can be judged in test without considering his shorter formats performances.

 

[JaDed]

I stand by that post. Show me 300 wickets. Then talk nah.

The guy had a good world T20, fair play. Good on him, well done. But t20wc’s are dime a dozen now.

He still needs to prove he can do it over a career. Tbf it’s more likely than not, I’ll give you that, but my statement is correct

Does Shaheen have 300?

 

[Varun]

I stand by that post. Show me 300 wickets. Then talk nah.

The guy had a good world T20, fair play. Good on him, well done. But t20wc’s are dime a dozen now.

He still needs to prove he can do it over a career. Tbf it’s more likely than not, I’ll give you that, but my statement is correct

I'm saying carry on. You remind me of the first days when I joined PP - when the Aane Do series was ongoing and Pakistani posters were full of jazba junoon. We need more of you around here.

 

[NishanKonar]

On a serious note - this is a big issue in Pakistan cricket. The way their players get overhyped after 1-2 good series. The players are only human. So much adulation so early in their careers can go to their heads & ruin their careers. Look at Babar , Shaheen, Naseem - they have clearly regressed over the past 1 year. 1 big reason probably is success went to their heaads

We saw the same thing with Hasan Ali, Ahmed Shehzad, Umar Akmal. Of course there were other issues. BUt I wonder if Pakistani fans should self introspect & stop overhyping their players unless they actually achieve something substantial

Shaheen became a Pakistan legend after 1 game against India ( 2021 T20 WC). Bumrah got legendary status after the recent T20 WC - after 7 years of grind & several exemplary performances

 

[TheSultan]

On a serious note - this is a big issue in Pakistan cricket. The way their players get overhyped after 1-2 good series. The players are only human. So much adulation so early in their careers can go to their heads & ruin their careers. Look at Babar , Shaheen, Naseem - they have clearly regressed over the past 1 year. 1 big reason probably is success went to their heaads

We saw the same thing with Hasan Ali, Ahmed Shehzad, Umar Akmal. Of course there were other issues. BUt I wonder if Pakistani fans should self introspect & stop overhyping their players unless they actually achieve something substantial

Shaheen became a Pakistan legend after 1 game against India ( 2021 T20 WC). Bumrah got legendary status after the recent T20 WC - after 7 years of grind & several exemplary performances

Let’s be honest, we saw that for India too. Nehra, pathan, sreesanth, RP singh, munaf patel, yadav etc etc

It’s only recently some of these pacers have stuck and even then, they are still yet to be proven fully over the long term. Only zaheer had a good last quarter to his career.

The hype train is there for all teams

 

[ravisurya]

Let’s be honest, we saw that for India too. Nehra, pathan, sreesanth, RP singh, munaf patel, yadav etc etc

It’s only recently some of these pacers have stuck and even then, they are still yet to be proven fully over the long term. Only zaheer had a good last quarter to his career.

The hype train is there for all teams

Agreed all that matters are the team results and India is doing decently where as Pakistan is losing at home ti Bangladesh.

 

[TheSultan]

Agreed all that matters are the team results and India is doing decently where as Pakistan is losing at home ti Bangladesh.

Yes we are trashing the pak team. That’s what we do. We’re not delusional

 

[TheSultan]

Does Shaheen have 300?

I’m not saying Shaheen does. That post that was quoted of mine was not a comparison post. It was a general post about Bumrah.

He hasn’t taken 300 wickets. The guy still hasn’t taken a 10-fer in a test match over two innings. That is the true sign of a destructive bowler. Every great bowler has a few to his name.

I’m not saying he can’t. But you guys need to stop making him out to be great until he does

 

[Josh]

I think he has done enough in test to not be judged by his shorter formats exploits.

He has been the best Asian bowler by some margin when traveling outside Asia. A lot more to do for sure, but I don't think he needs to get 300 wickets to be rated in test cricket. He has so many match changing spells outside Asia in his short career.

View attachment 146004

He can be surely judged based on what he has done in test so far without relying on ODT/T20. Yes, he is probably the best shorter format bowler in history, but he can be judged in test without considering his shorter formats performances.

27 matches is not a small sample size just 10 less than Imran Khan . Bumrah has proven himself and he is the best ever Asian pacer in Sena conditions in test format for me.

 

[Buffet]

27 matches is not a small sample size just 10 less than Imran Khan . Bumrah has proven himself and he is the best ever Asian pacer in Sena conditions in test format for me.

Yes, he is by some margin, but he needs to have more wickets to cross 250 in test in this 3 format era. That's why I said more to go. He does not need to prove anything outside Asia, just overall wickets tally and few more match changing spells.

 

[JaDed]

I’m not saying Shaheen does. That post that was quoted of mine was not a comparison post. It was a general post about Bumrah.

He hasn’t taken 300 wickets. The guy still hasn’t taken a 10-fer in a test match over two innings. That is the true sign of a destructive bowler. Every great bowler has a few to his name.

I’m not saying he can’t. But you guys need to stop making him out to be great until he does

10fer without a proper strike is of no use.
Pak posters are known to be goal shifters, entire forum was on how Bumrah doesn’t have an ICC tournament and now he has one where he performed in the final and it became dime and dozen, so please do carry on coz when Pak posters shift goal posts is when Indians know their players are doing well.

 

[TheSultan]

I think he has done enough in test to not be judged by his shorter formats exploits.

He has been the best Asian bowler by some margin when traveling outside Asia. A lot more to do for sure, but I don't think he needs to get 300 wickets to be rated in test cricket. He has so many match changing spells outside Asia in his short career.

View attachment 146004

He can be surely judged based on what he has done in test so far without relying on ODT/T20. Yes, he is probably the best shorter format bowler in history, but he can be judged in test without considering his shorter formats performances.

36 tests is still a small sample size.

This is the common issue among Pakistan coaches/fans that pace is the best.

Pakistan’s best is Wasim, not Shoaib
Brett lee doesnt come near to Macgrath.

140+ is not a baby pace and Bumrah’s action makes him gain about 0.5-1 inch which makes him effectively 145+ and this was mentioned widely by cricket Pundits.

Just been 2 years and see where Bumrah is. Except for Pakistan’s ex-cricketers, no one would rate SSA above Bumrah. Not before 2 years, not now.

Bumrah single handedly won the WT20 2024 for India. He now have legit achievements to be compared with the best in the business. Even if he ends his career now, he will just be below Macgrath and Wasim in comparisons among ATG’s.

no way he will be near wasim and McGrath lol.

If Waqar retired after 38 tests and 200 wickets, would you have made him an ATG?

 

[Katwalindian]

I stand by that post. Show me 300 wickets. Then talk nah.

The guy had a good world T20, fair play. Good on him, well done. But t20wc’s are dime a dozen now.

He still needs to prove he can do it over a career. Tbf it’s more likely than not, I’ll give you that, but my statement is correct

T20 wc are nothing to create legacy, umar gul was destructive wicket taker in both 2007 and 2009 wc and almost won both.

 

[TheSultan]

10fer without a proper strike is of no use.
Pak posters are known to be goal shifters, entire forum was on how Bumrah doesn’t have an ICC tournament and now he has one where he performed in the final and it became dime and dozen, so please do carry on coz when Pak posters shift goal posts is when Indians know their players are doing well.

It’s no goal posts. It’s just the way it is. Strike rates usually come down over a career. So with all the hype, his strike rate is still 45 and he doesn’t have any 10fers either. Just take the L for now and if he does well over his career, you can have the W.

You can’t prove it right now, sorry.

If a batsman had an average of 65 after 36 tests, would you bracket him with your beloved SRT? Didn’t think so.

And Bumrah’s strike rate isn’t even anywhere near exceptionally good like a 65 batting average.

 

[kron]

Think he meant less threatening to hmtheir own teams relatively speaking.

 

[Buffet]

36 tests is still a small sample size.

Yes, it's not enough to decide where he should be ranked, but enough to rate him just based on that sample size in test.

Specially when 125 plus wickets have come at 21 a piece while touring outside Asia because Asian bowlers normally struggle to bowl well outside Asia.

 

[usman.sandhu]

Shaheen Shah is a very ordinary bowler, quite pathetic to be honest... needs to be dropped and sent back to domestic cricket in all formats..

Ravi Shastri was right... he is nothing special...

 

[Vikram1989]

Pak posters shift goal posts is when Indians know their players are doing well.

When someone argued saim ayub is better than jaiswal depending on range of shots and bat force instead of stats, u know what u r dealing with.

 

[BouncerGuy]

Bumrah is undoubtedly a better bowler than Shaheen. His impact in turning a match on his own cannot be ignored. Might nit be a legend like Wasim etc but he definitely the best all-format bowler atm.

 

[RyanRyan10]

I brought up this topic in Ramiz's thread as well. Some ex Pakistani cricketers resort to using India's name for attention. They compare their players with the best Indian cricketers when their players perform well in a few games. However when their players struggle, they portray them in a negative light and go overboard with criticism.

Aqib Javed had once compared Babar to Kohli. The same guy had said his team doesn't try to get Babar out in the PSL because he bats slow. These ex Pakistani cricketers lack the ability to offer proper solutions to improve their cricket but they are very capable of garnering footage.

 

[NishanKonar]

I brought up this topic in Ramiz's thread as well. Some ex Pakistani cricketers resort to using India's name for attention. They compare their players with the best Indian cricketers when their players perform well in a few games. However when their players struggle, they portray them in a negative light and go overboard with criticism.

Aqib Javed had once compared Babar to Kohli. The same guy had said his team doesn't try to get Babar out in the PSL because he bats slow. These ex Pakistani cricketers lack the ability to offer proper solutions to improve their cricket but they are very capable of garnering footage.

This is what I mentioned in my post

Pakistani fans & ex-cricketers have this tendency to go massively overboard with their hype when a player has a few good games. and then they go overboard with their criticism when things go bad. Need more balance

Have seen this now with Hasan Ali, Babar, Rizwan, Shaheen Shah, Saim Ayub, Naseem Shah, Harish Rauf - seems to be a pattern in Pakistan cricket fraternity

ps : after this Bangladesh game , we will probably see threads that Mir Hamza & Khurram are better than Bumrah !

 

[TheSultan]

This is what I mentioned in my post

Pakistani fans & ex-cricketers have this tendency to go massively overboard with their hype when a player has a few good games. and then they go overboard with their criticism when things go bad. Need more balance

Have seen this now with Hasan Ali, Babar, Rizwan, Shaheen Shah, Saim Ayub, Naseem Shah, Harish Rauf - seems to be a pattern in Pakistan cricket fraternity

ps : after this Bangladesh game , we will probably see threads that Mir Hamza & Khurram are better than Bumrah !

I can’t speak for Rambo, but I’ve never hyped this current team and have never compared babar with Kohli. We’re fair over here. Not like in the 90s where some Indians after WC 96 were comparing Prasad to Waqar lol.

The Shaheen discussion was only started because Shaheen was looking good for a while and Bumrah had a dip.

Both at their best and peak pace are comparable. Unfortunately Shaheen’s decline has been all too quick.

Regardless, they are still both in the middle of their careers and have time to make or break their careers.

 

[TheSultan]

I brought up this topic in Ramiz's thread as well. Some ex Pakistani cricketers resort to using India's name for attention. They compare their players with the best Indian cricketers when their players perform well in a few games. However when their players struggle, they portray them in a negative light and go overboard with criticism.

Aqib Javed had once compared Babar to Kohli. The same guy had said his team doesn't try to get Babar out in the PSL because he bats slow. These ex Pakistani cricketers lack the ability to offer proper solutions to improve their cricket but they are very capable of garnering footage.

didn’t you yourself just start a thread hyping the duo of Shahzad and Mir Hamza?

 

[RyanRyan10]

didn’t you yourself just start a thread hyping the duo of Shahzad and Mir Hamza?

Did I compare them with players of other teams? BTW, I and Nishan are different people so why are you quoting me something which he has mentioned?

 

[Nikhil_cric]

I can’t speak for Rambo, but I’ve never hyped this current team and have never compared babar with Kohli. We’re fair over here. Not like in the 90s where some Indians after WC 96 were comparing Prasad to Waqar lol.

The Shaheen discussion was only started because Shaheen was looking good for a while and Bumrah had a dip.

Both at their best and peak pace are comparable. Unfortunately Shaheen’s decline has been all too quick.

Regardless, they are still both in the middle of their careers and have time to make or break their careers.

Before 2023 Asia Cup, Babar was hyped to the moon even on this forum even if you personally didn't indulge in it

 

[Hitman]

Before 2023 Asia Cup, Babar was hyped to the moon even on this forum even if you personally didn't indulge in it

His countrymen still hype a certain nandrolone infected chucker with 177 Test wickets. The one who cried to his captain in the 2003 WC match against India after being belted all over the ground by Tendulkar saying, 'Awwww, mere se bowling nahin ho rahi hain'.

 

[TheSultan]

Shoaib Akhtar was one of a kind. We never compared him to an Indian lol. Fastest bowler ever.

we don’t care what Indians think of him. One of a kind. A legend

 

[TheSultan]

Did I compare them with players of other teams? BTW, I and Nishan are different people so why are you quoting me something which he has mentioned?

No you didn’t buy hyping is still hyping.

 

[Hitman]

Phaastest chucker ever who proved himself with such exemplary performances against the 2 best batting line ups of his time in Tests, India and Australia.

vs Australia -

Innings - 17; Wickets - 31; Ave - 35.64; SR - 56.4


vs India -

Innings - 16; Wickets - 28; Ave - 34.50; SR - 61.9


I'm sure guys like Glenn McGrath and Richard Hadlee would turn green with envy looking at those numbers.

 

[JAV12341]

Said it 2 years ago and will say it again. He’s sadly finished and won’t ever reach the pinnacle height He reached prior to his injury. He’s been rushed and burnt to the ground. His pace will now always hover around the 128 kph mark. He’s turned into a nothing Paul collingwood type medium pace bowler.

Quicker he retires the better

 

[gibsyhesperis]

Shoaib Akhtar was one of a kind. We never compared him to an Indian lol. Fastest bowler ever.

we don’t care what Indians think of him. One of a kind. A legend

Shame he didn’t take more wickets and win more games…..

 

[gibsyhesperis]

Bumrah is an exceptional cricketer ; arguably one the greatest fast bowlers from the subcontinent.. probably second only to Wasim in skill and ability.

SSA is like a shooting star — he shone brightly initially and then faded away. Sad really
Can’t see him returning to previous levels, as I don’t think he has the discipline to put in the hard work after a bad injury (like Lillee and Waqar did)

 

[NishanKonar]

Bumrah is an exceptional cricketer ; arguably one the greatest fast bowlers from the subcontinent.. probably second only to Wasim in skill and ability.

SSA is like a shooting star — he shone brightly initially and then faded away. Sad really
Can’t see him returning to previous levels, as I don’t think he has the discipline to put in the hard work after a bad injury (like Lillee and Waqar did)

Shaheen Shah reminds me of Muhammad Sami. He also had a similar trajectory. Burst on to the scene with some terrific spells. And then someone probably told him " pace is pace yaar". He forgot everything & became obsessed with bowling as fast as possible without any accuracy. And as expected got thrashed left right & center and turned into canon fodder for batters

Same with Shaheen Shah. He thinks all he has to do is bowl that inswing yorker into the pads & he will get a wicket every time. Never bothered to learn anything else & evolve as a bowler. No wonder his career is going the same way as Sami

 

[Buffet]

I can’t speak for Rambo, but I’ve never hyped this current team and have never compared babar with Kohli. We’re fair over here. Not like in the 90s where some Indians after WC 96 were comparing Prasad to Waqar lol.

The Shaheen discussion was only started because Shaheen was looking good for a while and Bumrah had a dip.

Both at their best and peak pace are comparable. Unfortunately Shaheen’s decline has been all too quick.

Regardless, they are still both in the middle of their careers and have time to make or break their careers.

Seriously?

There is a huge gap between their skill sets.

 

[TheSultan]

Seriously?

There is a huge gap between their skill sets.

That may be the case, but skill sets don’t always turn in to results. With Wasim’s skillset he should have taken a lot more wickets and a much lower strike rate.

Bumrah is yet to take 10 wickets in a match

 

[TheSultan]

Shaheen Shah reminds me of Muhammad Sami. He also had a similar trajectory. Burst on to the scene with some terrific spells. And then someone probably told him " pace is pace yaar". He forgot everything & became obsessed with bowling as fast as possible without any accuracy. And as expected got thrashed left right & center and turned into canon fodder for batters

Same with Shaheen Shah. He thinks all he has to do is bowl that inswing yorker into the pads & he will get a wicket every time. Never bothered to learn anything else & evolve as a bowler. No wonder his career is going the same way as Sami

The story about Sami is not even true.

Sami lost his mojo when he became placid and meek and was told to reign in the pace by geniuses Bob and Inzi.

He went from 95-97mph to 85-88mph between 2004 and 2007 with the odd delivery maybe at 90mph.

He never made it back after that.

This folk story is told to prove “pace isn’t everything”, but it is not even accurate. A work of fiction.

Sami’s problem was he never figured out the correct length to bowl for his short frame.

 

[IAJ]

It's a bit scary that a former international fast bowler can't see what the common man can see. I know this thread is a couple of years old, but even then Bumrah was a league above. He has been consisten for a few years now.

 

[NishanKonar]

The story about Sami is not even true.

Sami lost his mojo when he became placid and meek and was told to reign in the pace by geniuses Bob and Inzi.

He went from 95-97mph to 85-88mph between 2004 and 2007 with the odd delivery maybe at 90mph.

He never made it back after that.

This folk story is told to prove “pace isn’t everything”, but it is not even accurate. A work of fiction.

Sami’s problem was he never figured out the correct length to bowl for his short frame.

No

Sami actually was decent bowler when he was first came in. Then he became this out & out pace bowler who was obsessed with speed guns at the cost of line & length and that was start of his downfall

That's why Sami became poster boy for everything wrong with the " pace is pace yaar " mindset and Pakistan's maniac obsession with pace

 

[TheSultan]

No

Sami actually was decent bowler when he was first came in. Then he became this out & out pace bowler who was obsessed with speed guns at the cost of line & length and that was start of his downfall

That's why Sami became poster boy for everything wrong with the " pace is pace yaar " mindset and Pakistan's maniac obsession with pace

Nope that’s incorrect. Sami did start off well and he got quicker and quicker year on year since his debut in 2001.

Sami was a beast when he was bowling at 95mph in 2003.

He had a bad series vs India in 2004, but so did Shoaib. Shoaib stuck to his guns and Sami caved in to the “pace is not everything brigade”. Results are obvious.

 

[cricketcricket79]

Comparisons have been common in any form of sport - the past with the present, among the current players, among players from different countries and sometimes of the same team. Former Pakistan pacer Aqib Javed on Sunday compared two young stalwarts of modern-era cricket - Jasprit Bumrah of India and Pakistan sensation Shaheen Shah Afridi. (IPL 2022 FULL COVERAGE)

Speaking to a media site, the 1992 World Cup-winning cricketer opined that Bumrah's graph has been stable and is a far less aggressive bowler compared to his Pakistan counterpart in Shaheen, who is presently on the rise and has produced more threatening performances across formats than the Indian.

“The way Haris has bowled in the last few years, his average bowling speed is the fastest in the world. And the aggression he has, the way he runs, the batsman knows that the bowler is running towards him, but Bumrah's isn't that aggressive. And people enjoy these kind of bowlers who have such body language. Shaheen's graph is on the rise, while Bumrah is stable. He has less threatening performances than Shaheen, whether it's in T20s, ODIs or in Tests. And the rise of Pakistan cricket largely has depended on performances from Shaheen, Haris Rauf, Shadab Khan, Babar Azam, Mohammad Rizwan,” he said.

Shaheen recent bagged the Sir Garfield Sobers Trophy for the ICC Men’s Cricketer of the Year 2021. In the last year, the youngster picked 78 wickets in 36 internationals at an average of 22.20. He also played a pivotal role for Pakistan in their run to the T20 World Cup semi-final in the UAE where he picked seven wickets in six matches which included the wickets of Rohit Sharma, KL Rahul and Virat Kohli in the group-stage match against India.

Bumrah, who is presently part of the Mumbai Indians squad in IPL 2022, has already represented India in 156 international games, picking 303 wickets.

https://www.hindustantimes.com/cric...cer-makes-bold-statement-101650869876965.html

This analysis by Javed is so rotten looking back. I can not believe this guy holds a prominent voice in Pakistan cricket in spite of such rotten analysis and biased eyes for talent spotting. I get it that he is Pakistan cricket lover but at least don’t make outrageous claims in the name of misguided way to show love.

 

[cricketcricket79]

I’m not saying Shaheen does. That post that was quoted of mine was not a comparison post. It was a general post about Bumrah.

He hasn’t taken 300 wickets. The guy still hasn’t taken a 10-fer in a test match over two innings. That is the true sign of a destructive bowler. Every great bowler has a few to his name.

I’m not saying he can’t. But you guys need to stop making him out to be great until he does

Except one or two bowlers, nobody is taking 300 test wickets now. It is a dinosaur format. Players do not want to play except a few themselves. Except few retirees and hard core cricket lovers sadly not many watching test cricket either.

 

[ravisurya]

I can’t speak for Rambo, but I’ve never hyped this current team and have never compared babar with Kohli. We’re fair over here. Not like in the 90s where some Indians after WC 96 were comparing Prasad to Waqar lol.

The Shaheen discussion was only started because Shaheen was looking good for a while and Bumrah had a dip.

Both at their best and peak pace are comparable. Unfortunately Shaheen’s decline has been all too quick.

Regardless, they are still both in the middle of their careers and have time to make or break their careers.

Now you are just making up stuff. No Indian poster here ever compared Prasad to Waqar.

 

[ravisurya]

Yes we are trashing the pak team. That’s what we do. We’re not delusional

And yet saying Shaheen is better than Bumrah reeks of delusion.

 

[Hitman]

Now you are just making up stuff. No Indian poster here ever compared Prasad to Waqar.

Except that Prasad never replicated Waqar's extraordinary, show stopping performance in the 96' and 03' WC matches against India.

 

[cricketcricket79]

Except that Prasad never replicated Waqar's extraordinary, show stopping performance in the 96' and 03' WC matches against India.

Agree. Prasad’s name is used as a joke on this forum. But his performance in that QF alone makes me remember his name fondly. That was just sheer eruption of joy while watching the match.

 

[Buffet]

That may be the case, but skill sets don’t always turn in to results. With Wasim’s skillset he should have taken a lot more wickets and a much lower strike rate.

But it did translate into numerous match changing spells outside Asia. Not sure if you watched enough of Shaheen and Bumrah to say that they were comparable in their peak. Neither the skills nor the performance was comparable at any time.

Yes, Wasim's skills shows up when you look up how he did outside Asia. Outside of Bumrah, he is the only Asian pacers to average below 25 outside Asia. You can't argue that Wasim's skills did not help him.

 

[Buffet]

It's a bit scary that a former international fast bowler can't see what the common man can see. I know this thread is a couple of years old, but even then Bumrah was a league above. He has been consisten for a few years now.

+100

I find it puzzling why anyone will compare these two even few years back.

 

[TheSultan]

Now you are just making up stuff. No Indian poster here ever compared Prasad to Waqar.

This forum wasn’t around then so obviously no poster here said that.

But a lot of the sorry Indian fans at the time (boy they had a rough time in the 90s ) did make that comparison.

 

[TheSultan]

But it did translate into numerous match changing spells outside Asia. Not sure if you watched enough of Shaheen and Bumrah to say that they were comparable in their peak. Neither the skills nor the performance was comparable at any time.

Yes, Wasim's skills shows up when you look up how he did outside Asia. Outside of Bumrah, he is the only Asian pacers to average below 25 outside Asia. You can't argue that Wasim's skills did not help him.

Of course skills show up. But some would argue McGrath was better than Wasim even though Wasim was 100x more skilful.

Wasim should have sealed the deal. And that’s what Bumrah must do too.

 

[NishanKonar]

Of course skills show up. But some would argue McGrath was better than Wasim even though Wasim was 100x more skilful.

Wasim should have sealed the deal. And that’s what Bumrah must do too.

Lol at Wasim Akram was 100X more skillful than McGrath

I mean this is what I have mentioned above. Pakistanis just go so overboard in hyping their players. All flows from the " Pakistan main talent bohut hai " mindset

McGrath was head & shoulder above anybody of his era. No other bowler won test matches so consistently for his team in overseas test matches

 

[Hitman]

Lol at Wasim Akram was 100X more skillful than McGrath

I mean this is what I have mentioned above. Pakistanis just go so overboard in hyping their players. All flows from the " Pakistan main talent bohut hai " mindset

McGrath was head & shoulder above anybody of his era. No other bowler won test matches so consistently for his team in overseas test matches

Maybe 100x more skillful in …. (insert Justice Qayyum Report).

 

[NishanKonar]

+100

I find it puzzling why anyone will compare these two even few years back.

Pakistani fans & ex cricketers have a huge chip on their shoulder regarding their pace attack. For a long time they believed Pakatan will always have a superior pace attack & India will have to make do with thunders. Bcoz they claimed Pakistanis ate beef & so were more strong & macho - unlike Indians who were weak & skinny coz they were vegetarian. All this will sound ridiculous to normal people like u and me but in Pakistan these were considered as Gospel truths

But last few years once it became clear that India has much better pace attack than Pakistan thanks largely to the rise of Bumrah - it triggered their insecurities & envy. Therefore they started hyping up Shaheen Shah & later Haris Rauf & Naseem Shah to pretend that they still have the edge over India. I mean who is Aquib Javed - the same guy who started the " Pakistan has better fast bowlers bcoz they eat beef " theory. Imagine what must be going thru his mind when he see Bumrah dominating world cricket while Shaheen / Naeem gets bullied by Litton Das & Musfikur Rahim !

But then all that hype & PR wont carry u far if not backed by substance. As Shaheen Shah & Naseem Shah are finding out the hard way !

 

[ravisurya]

This forum wasn’t around then so obviously no poster here said that.

But a lot of the sorry Indian fans at the time (boy they had a rough time in the 90s ) did make that comparison.

Again. You are just making up stuff. Nothing can be worse than coming some of the sad comparisons that Pakistani fans and even worse is stuff ex-cricketers come up with.... shezad vs Sachin anyone? Or how about Kohli vs Akmal....

 

[TheSultan]

Again. You are just making up stuff. Nothing can be worse than coming some of the sad comparisons that Pakistani fans and even worse is stuff ex-cricketers come up with.... shezad vs Sachin anyone? Or how about Kohli vs Akmal....

I’m just relating my personal experience. Who are you to say I’m making it up?

It’s not even that big a deal. Indian fans embarassed themselves a lot then just like a lot of you are right now saying bumrah is an ATG after 4/5 active years of international cricket.

he had a good world t20. That has triggered all this chest thumping. And it’s fine you have a right to cos it’s current. But just remember, Sam Curran had a good one in 2022