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By not specialising in either skill, does Shadab Khan risk becoming the new Mohammad Hafeez?

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Gubol123

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Okay this is going to be very controversial and I am prepared to get lots of flak for this post :)..

I saw the thread about Kuldeep Vs Shadab and browsed through 's profile and some of his matches and videos.. Looking at his batting potential and only his current bowling skills he looks like he will need to add lots of variations to his bowling. Big booming leg break, ability to bowl slower, getting some loop etc. His batting looks solid and based on good fundamentals. He certainly has lot of potential in batting. i see him batting higher and more often for Pakistan. He might actually end up being a batting all rounder than the bowling all rounder. Though his batting is based on good fundamentals i don't see him as a top three batsman and I am not sure about his hitting skills. This means he will have to bat in top five in future to actually meaningfully contribute. So unless he develops his bowling (obviously he can as he is so young) he might turn out to be one more bits and pieces player who can contribute both bat and ball but not really world class in any one of them, just like great MoHa. Team will not know what exactly to do with him as they cannot rely on him being top three in tests or rely him to regularly run through good teams.

I feel that Shadab Khan should concentrate more on his bowling as that is what is likely to win more matches for his team. He should look to become a good hitter, especially as he has good fundamentals, so that he can contribute valuable runs in the lower order, say at 8 or 9. He will not win many matches batting at 6 or 7.
 
kindly remove this post for the sake of pak cricket. I hope he don't even get 1% of hafeez in him. Hafeez the batsmen caused pak lots of games. Shadab overtime 'll become better allrounder than hafeez can wish.
 
I felt like Shadab was more of a batsman than a bowler in New Zealand... He needs to improve his bowling otherwise he won't last long in the team.
 
badsha001 said:
I felt like Shadab was more of a batsman than a bowler in New Zealand... He needs to improve his bowling otherwise he won't last long in the team.
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His idol is Steve Smith, not Abdul Qadir or Warne. He always wanted to be batsman first judging from his eariler interviews.
 
shah_1 said:
His idol is Steve Smith, not Abdul Qadir or Warne. He always wanted to be batsman first judging from his eariler interviews.
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Then he needs to go back to Domestic and start scoring runs... As of right now, Pakistan needs a bowler especially leg spinner, who can take wicket and maybe score 10-15 runs.
 
shah_1 said:
His idol is Steve Smith, not Abdul Qadir or Warne. He always wanted to be batsman first judging from his eariler interviews.
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Oh that clears up a bit.. he does not currently posses skills to play in top three although his bat swing and game awareness suits top three/four better than lower order hitter.. so he will have to work on it.
 
badsha001 said:
Then he needs to go back to Domestic and start scoring runs... As of right now, Pakistan needs a bowler especially leg spinner, who can take wicket and maybe score 10-15 runs.
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He scored 150+ against Zimbabwe national team in a first class match. He has poteintal with the bat but right now picked for his bowling only.
 
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badsha001 said:
Then he needs to go back to Domestic and start scoring runs... As of right now, Pakistan needs a bowler especially leg spinner, who can take wicket and maybe score 10-15 runs.
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exactly .. he will have a much better success being a very good legspinner who can contribute lower order than trying to become top six batter. If he can contribute like what Warne did as a batter and develop more as a bowler he will have a bright future. His current bowling skills will not make him all that good in tests
 
Maybe he can be our Shakib ul Hasan in LOIs?

Hafeez was a very AR( chucking the ball). You need one AR in the team
 
shah_1 said:
Maybe he can be our Shakib ul Hasan in LOIs?

Hafeez was a very AR( chucking the ball). You need one AR in the team
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could be.. Shakib is a actually quite a good bowler even in tests.. But it is certainly possible that Shadab develops in the same mold
 
@Mods thanks for renaming the title. the title is much better than the original one
 
What's wrong with being Hafeez?

Chucker Hafeez was the #1 all-rounder and a very useful player. The only thing I don't want him to take from Hafeez is choking as a batsman.
 
hafeez was technically not really an all rounder because a good portion of the time his deliveries were illegal
 
He's contributing with bat and ball. Hafeez was an economical bowler, he was in the team for his batting. Whilst Shadab makes the team as a bowler, he's still contributing with bat.
 
Shadab as a test leggie would be more helpful to Pakistan than an out and out odi all-rounder.He would have to be a rare talent to keep his skill sets improving .He looks a good spinner , not sure if a match winner yet, but being a leggie he has to have that game changing spirit. I would rather have him play more first class cricket than ODI cricket. I rather have a Shane warne than a Shakib !
 
Gubol123 said:
Currently not a world class in either.. Probably closer to world class as bowler..
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Bits and pieces means that he is not sufficiently good enough with either bat or ball.However his record with both(in LOI's) suggests that he is exactly the opposite of bits and pieces.If he develops power hitting ability in ODI's he can actually bat at 4,that's how good he is.He hasn't batted much in domestics but still has a decent record.And he has a very good economy and a a good average for a modern day LOI spinner.It's still early days but this guy has far more potential than Hafeez or Malik
 
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Shadab has more flair and passion as of now but he is only 18 or so. Lets see what happens later if he has to save his place in the team by hook or crook.
 
He has attitude to get succeed. But he don't have to overdo googly and learn fast to flight the ball, otherwise he will become ineffective in sometime when batsman learn his googly from hand. But he is very high potential player at this young age, Just played u19 in 2016.
 
The MVPs of cricket are the bowling all-rounders, who make the Test team as one of 4 bowlers and can contribute with bat. In that regard, SK has a tremendous potential to be the No. 7/8 batsman and a Leggi who bowls 60 overs in a complete Test.

One mistake which most people do with such potential player is that they think batting is all about technique & skills, which is not at all. It's mostly temperament, batting intelligence & application - almost like you are born with the character of a batsman. Shadab can hit spectacular 30s & 40s, may be even odd hundred as well, but I am not sure if he has the mind set to keep focus & concentration for 6/7 hours - without that, he'll never be a 40+ average batsman. If they try to manufacture one out of him - might end up losing both.

I had few detailed post in his specific thread - in short, his ideal role model should be the one & only Richi Benaud; an outstanding leggi, quite capable late order batsman (his batting capability was far better than his Test stats, which is indicative in his performance under pressure - hardly anyone ever has scored more valuable runs from No. 8/9), and one of the greatest cricket minds ever, probably the best.

Afridi had the chance as well - his first 4 Tests reads a match winning 141, another 50 against that Aussie bowling, a 5for against that Aussie middle order on debut (& a 3 for against IND) ..... Sadly, instead of building career (bowling) through FC cricket, he went for cheap shots and ended up as a 5 in 1 - jack of everything, master of none. It was possible, quite possible for a 18/19 years career with around 150 Tests, 450+ wickets at below 35 and close to 7500 runs at around 38, and 100+ Test catches - that's arguably better than AW Greig!!!!!!!!
dab
 
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Shadab has potential to be a genuine allrounder and I am hopefull that he will become the best allrounder in the world in few years.
He is equally good against spin and pace. He plays 360 degree while batting and has all the shots. He rotates strike effortlessly and knows the importance of it. He has strong nerves and plays well under pressure as he has shown that against Srilanka and Newzealand. He should bat at no 5 in place of Malik.
 
MMHS said:
The MVPs of cricket are the bowling all-rounders, who make the Test team as one of 4 bowlers and can contribute with bat. In that regard, SK has a tremendous potential to be the No. 7/8 batsman and a Leggi who bowls 60 overs in a complete Test.

One mistake which most people do with such potential player is that they think batting is all about technique & skills, which is not at all. It's mostly temperament, batting intelligence & application - almost like you are born with the character of a batsman. Shadab can hit spectacular 30s & 40s, may be even odd hundred as well, but I am not sure if he has the mind set to keep focus & concentration for 6/7 hours - without that, he'll never be a 40+ average batsman. If they try to manufacture one out of him - might end up losing both.

I had few detailed post in his specific thread - in short, his ideal role model should be the one & only Richi Benaud; an outstanding leggi, quite capable late order batsman (his batting capability was far better than his Test stats, which is indicative in his performance under pressure - hardly anyone ever has scored more valuable runs from No. 8/9), and one of the greatest cricket minds ever, probably the best.

Afridi had the chance as well - his first 4 Tests reads a match winning 141, another 50 against that Aussie bowling, a 5for against that Aussie middle order on debut (& a 3 for against IND) ..... Sadly, instead of building career (bowling) through FC cricket, he went for cheap shots and ended up as a 5 in 1 - jack of everything, master of none. It was possible, quite possible for a 18/19 years career with around 150 Tests, 450+ wickets at below 35 and close to 7500 runs at around 38, and 100+ Test catches - that's arguably better than AW Greig!!!!!!!!
dab
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That's exactly what PCB is trying to do, making a Shadab a top order batsman which he is not clearly... He will be beome a bit and piece player in the future instead of top order batsman.
 
Shadab at 19-20 is a better fielder, bowler and although he has not scored as many 50’s as Hafeez might have in the same amount of time in international cricket, the ones he has (NZ, SL) show he is not someone who cracks under pressure. Plus, he actually wants to catch when the ball comes near him. Hafeez on the other hand, is a bundle of nervous energy who surprises himself when he manages to hold on to a catch.
 
MMHS said:
The MVPs of cricket are the bowling all-rounders, who make the Test team as one of 4 bowlers and can contribute with bat. In that regard, SK has a tremendous potential to be the No. 7/8 batsman and a Leggi who bowls 60 overs in a complete Test.

One mistake which most people do with such potential player is that they think batting is all about technique & skills, which is not at all. It's mostly temperament, batting intelligence & application - almost like you are born with the character of a batsman. Shadab can hit spectacular 30s & 40s, may be even odd hundred as well, but I am not sure if he has the mind set to keep focus & concentration for 6/7 hours - without that, he'll never be a 40+ average batsman. If they try to manufacture one out of him - might end up losing both.

I had few detailed post in his specific thread - in short, his ideal role model should be the one & only Richi Benaud; an outstanding leggi, quite capable late order batsman (his batting capability was far better than his Test stats, which is indicative in his performance under pressure - hardly anyone ever has scored more valuable runs from No. 8/9), and one of the greatest cricket minds ever, probably the best.

Afridi had the chance as well - his first 4 Tests reads a match winning 141, another 50 against that Aussie bowling, a 5for against that Aussie middle order on debut (& a 3 for against IND) ..... Sadly, instead of building career (bowling) through FC cricket, he went for cheap shots and ended up as a 5 in 1 - jack of everything, master of none. It was possible, quite possible for a 18/19 years career with around 150 Tests, 450+ wickets at below 35 and close to 7500 runs at around 38, and 100+ Test catches - that's arguably better than AW Greig!!!!!!!!
dab
Click to expand...

Mindset, application, and game sense, is precisely what Shadab appears to possess far ahead of his age. It is in these respects that Hafeez continues to disappoint.
 
badsha001 said:
That's exactly what PCB is trying to do, making a Shadab a top order batsman which he is not clearly... He will be beome a bit and piece player in the future instead of top order batsman.
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How did you come to that conclusion considering that he's never batted higher than #7 for Pakistan?
 
Gubol123 said:
so a bits and pieces player is all rounder?
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A specialist batsman/bowler is a player who is incapable or very bad at the other.

There is no merit in being incapable of batting or bowling.

Or deliberately becoming bad at one so you can call yourself a 'specialist'.
 
He already has 1 serious skill that hafeez never had. Iys called performing during big games. Hafeez is one of the most if not most timid player ever.
 
Today's stat: 34-0 after 4 overs and scored 2 runs (batted above Rusell and Faheem)... It seems like he is really becoming a bits and pieces player...
 
Shadab is too talented to be pigeonholed this early, he needs to develop both facets of his game, this comparison with Professor makes no sense. Shadab is very young and has shown wonderful temperament and adaptability. He just needs more exposure because he's got a proper improving cricketer's head on his shoulders.
 
badsha001 said:
Based on 1 match and last new Zealand series...

On the same pitch, Ibtisham, Hassan and Nawaz bowled exceptionally well.
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Didnt Shadab have an acceptable NZ series?

And All of these bowlers you mentioned, bowled in the second innings when pitch had deteriorated a little.
 
badsha001 said:
What happened today? Just bowled 2 overs today... Another mediocre performance
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You are an obvious troll.
Let's take a look at his NZ tour which you criticize.
1st match: 0 wickets, 28 runs
2nd match: 0 wickets, 52 runs when the side was 5-108
3rd match: 2 wickets, 0 runs
4th match: 3 wickets, 6* runs
5th match: 0 wickets (35 in 10 overs), 54 runs when the side was 5-57

1st T20: 1 wicket, 0 runs
2nd T20: 2 wickets, DNB
3rd T20: 2 wickets, DNB

In the ODI series, he was underwhelming with the ball but exceeded expectations with the bat coming in at #7 and scored a 50 twice when the side needed him the most.

In the T20 series, he did not get a proper chance to bat. With the ball, he helped Pakistan win the series from being down 1-0 and took the most wickets from both sides.

This is a 19 year old leg-spinner's first tour to unhelpful conditions in NZ. If you believe this is a failure for him than you need to lower your expectations. If you are a troll, you have been exposed.

As far as his PSL 2018 performances, he has only played 2 matches. Reserve any judgements til after the tournament is over.
 
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[MENTION=143937]ManFan[/MENTION] even though he didn’t pick up wickets he still managed to keep it tight.

It’s not like he was getting a phainty each and every game.
 
babajee said:
[MENTION=143937]ManFan[/MENTION] even though he didn’t pick up wickets he still managed to keep it tight.

It’s not like he was getting a phainty each and every game.
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Yeah he just got better and better as the tour progressed. One of Pakistan cricket's brightest hopes in the last 20 years.
 
To be honest, Shadab is better than Hafeez in bowling. Shadab already has a decent record. He should work on his batting in T20 cricket.
 
indipper said:
Wasnt he owned in his first over? RR was way below 6 for second one.
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it is a small ground.. so he will concede some runs.. But overall he has to work on variations.. once the novelty wears off he is quite easy to negotiate with as he bowls flatter.. he will learn as he goes as he is young. His strength is bowling and needs to specialize there. otherwise over a period of time he will become a proper bits and pieces players
 
People are expecting too much from him based on West Indies bashing early in his career. He is good but he is not going to run through teams all the time. A very handy cricketer, that is all.
 
Mamoon said:
People are expecting too much from him based on West Indies bashing early in his career. He is good but he is not going to run through teams all the time. A very handy cricketer, that is all.
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Ahhh the parosee cheerleader.
You do know he is under 20?
 
pakistani pride said:
Ahhh the parosee cheerleader.
You do know he is under 20?
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I am not going to call him the next Shane Warne because he is a young leg-spinner with potential.

He is a good bowler and a handy cricketer overall. This is good enough praise in my opinion.

Just because he plays for Pakistan does not mean that we have to overrate him. He is not as good as Rashid Khan or Kuldeep with the ball.
 
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Mamoon said:
I am not going to call him the next Shane Warne because he is a young leg-spinner with potential.

He is a good bowler and a handy cricketer overall. This is good enough praise in my opinion.

Just because he plays for Pakistan does not mean that we have to overrate him. He is not as good as Rashid Khan or Kuldeep with the ball.
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You are dead wrong. Any team would love to have Shadab Khan in their team because he is the complete package and that too at ~20.
Leg-spinner with variations: check
Lower-order batsman: check
Gun fielder: check
Mindset/attitude: check
 
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ManFan said:
You are dead wrong. Any team would love to have Shadab Khan in their team because he is the complete package and that too at ~20.
Leg-spinner with variations: check
Lower-order batsman: check
Gun fielder: check
Mindset/attitude: check
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Dead wrong for something that I did not say? I agree with what you are saying there.

Most teams would want him because of his overall package, but I do not think that most teams would prefer his bowling to Rashid or Kuldeep's. They are clearly superior bowlers, although he is a better cricketer overall.

Ultimately it comes down to the team composition. A team with a strong batting unit would probably go for Rashid or Kuldeep, but a mediocre all-round team like Pakistan can get more out of Shadab than Rashid or Kuldeep, since he can contribute in multiple facets.
 
Mamoon said:
I am not going to call him the next Shane Warne because he is a young leg-spinner with potential.

He is a good bowler and a handy cricketer overall. This is good enough praise in my opinion.

Just because he plays for Pakistan does not mean that we have to overrate him. He is not as good as Rashid Khan or Kuldeep with the ball.
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Can he not improve? He’s 19 :))
 
Mamoon said:
Dead wrong for something that I did not say? I agree with what you are saying there.

Most teams would want him because of his overall package, but I do not think that most teams would prefer his bowling to Rashid or Kuldeep's. They are clearly superior bowlers, although he is a better cricketer overall.

Ultimately it comes down to the team composition. A team with a strong batting unit would probably go for Rashid or Kuldeep, but a mediocre all-round team like Pakistan can get more out of Shadab than Rashid or Kuldeep, since he can contribute in multiple facets.
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You said “handy cricketer”. You could have used a better word to describe your thoughts on his abilities. Handy means helpful but not top notch.
 
ManFan said:
You said “handy cricketer”. You could have used a better word to describe your thoughts on his abilities. Handy means helpful but not top notch.
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He is not a world class bowler, a world class batsman and neither has he proved himself to be a game-changing player against quality opposition, so I would refrain from using the word "top notch" for now.

Currently there is only one top notch all-round cricketer in the world today, and that is Stokes. From the younger lot, Pandya has the most potential. He has proved his mettle against teams like Australia and South Africa, and the only thing that he lacks is a bit of experience and temperament.

However, he is in a very good environment because the Indian team is in a very good place at the moment. If Shadab can replicate his success against teams like Australia, England, India, South Africa etc., he will deserve the title of a top notch cricketer.
 
babajee said:
A better version of Tahir, no reason he can’t be?
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Tahir is one of the best ODI spinners of all time. Setting such high expectations generally end in disappointment. You do not have to be as good as Tahir to be a good Limited Overs spinner.
 
Mamoon said:
He is not a world class bowler, a world class batsman and neither has he proved himself to be a game-changing player against quality opposition, so I would refrain from using the word "top notch" for now.

Currently there is only one top notch all-round cricketer in the world today, and that is Stokes. From the younger lot, Pandya has the most potential. He has proved his mettle against teams like Australia and South Africa, and the only thing that he lacks is a bit of experience and temperament.

However, he is in a very good environment because the Indian team is in a very good place at the moment. If Shadab can replicate his success against teams like Australia, England, India, South Africa etc., he will deserve the title of a top notch cricketer.
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You can’t compare batting all-rounders to a bowling all-rounder. Especially, when the difference is fast vs. leg-spin.
We can judge Shadab based on his performances so far. And they have been outstanding against WI, SL, and NZ.
Let’s wait and see.
 
Shadab has a certain confidence about him, something I don’t feel Hafeez ever maintained - Hafeez did have decent all round skills (very crafty bowler at one time).

If he reached Shakib levels that would be amazing and why not, he’s got a great physique too.

I would like to think though he could go on to be our premier spinner, even in tests, extending our batting depth at 7/8 like Ashwin does.

Those are a couple of tough acts but he has the potential to achieve this, even before his mid 20s...how our cricket system nurtures him is another question however :/

He’s a fighter though , and long may that continue :)
 
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Mamoon said:
Tahir is one of the best ODI spinners of all time. Setting such high expectations generally end in disappointment. You do not have to be as good as Tahir to be a good Limited Overs spinner.
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So do you not see the “look in his eyes” and “aura” that you see in Pandya for Shadab?
 
babajee said:
So do you not see the “look in his eyes” and “aura” that you see in Pandya for Shadab?
Click to expand...

Shadab certainly has a spark about him, but unlike Pandya, he is part of a mediocre team with no world class players to look up to. In addition, unlike Pandya, he plays in a third class T20 league.

Pandya has learned a lot in the IPL and will continue to do so, and the Indian team is pretty much the perfect setup for a young player to improve his game.

If you put Pandya in Pakistan and Shadab in India, the latter is likely to have a better career. That is why it is futile to compare young Indian and Pakistani cricketers. Unless the Pakistani cricketers are far more talented, their Indian counterparts will pretty much always end up with better careers because of the superior setup of their cricket.
 
ManFan said:
You can’t compare batting all-rounders to a bowling all-rounder. Especially, when the difference is fast vs. leg-spin.
We can judge Shadab based on his performances so far. And they have been outstanding against WI, SL, and NZ.
Let’s wait and see.
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I think you can compare them in terms of their overall performance. Shadab was very good in New Zealand, but West Indies and Sri Lanka are awful teams at the moment. What Pandya did in the CT Final, the Australian series and the rearguard innings in SA were pretty special, and Shadab has not scaled those heights yet.

More importantly, look at the environment that Pandya is developing in and compare it to the environment that Shadab is in. The two teams are worlds apart and Pandya can always fall back on the IPL for experience, which is the same standard as international cricket. The less said about the PSL the better.
 
badsha001 said:
Today's stat: 34-0 after 4 overs and scored 2 runs (batted above Rusell and Faheem)... It seems like he is really becoming a bits and pieces player...
Click to expand...

badsha001 said:
What happened today? Just bowled 2 overs today... Another mediocre performance
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badsha001 said:
Not sure, what will be the excuse today? Pitch or low first inning score?
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Deano said he's carrying a few niggles and is not fully fit.

He also said there's some technical issues with Shadab's bowling that Ajmal etc. are working on fixing.
 
Mamoon said:
I think you can compare them in terms of their overall performance. Shadab was very good in New Zealand, but West Indies and Sri Lanka are awful teams at the moment. What Pandya did in the CT Final, the Australian series and the rearguard innings in SA were pretty special, and Shadab has not scaled those heights yet.

More importantly, look at the environment that Pandya is developing in and compare it to the environment that Shadab is in. The two teams are worlds apart and Pandya can always fall back on the IPL for experience, which is the same standard as international cricket. The less said about the PSL the better.
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pandya was dropped a few times in that "rearguard" innings
 
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Abdullah719 said:
Deano said he's carrying a few niggles and is not fully fit.

He also said there's some technical issues with Shadab's bowling that Ajmal etc. are working on fixing.
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Really? I think Shadab should keep himself away from Ajmal. Shadbad has more natural ability than Ajmal and his influence is not good for Shadab
 
Abdullah719 said:
Ajmal is the spin-bowling coach for IU.
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I am sorry, that is really foolish of the franchise. If they want to build a brand, they need to get themselves associated with the right people. Somehow Ajmal doesn't come across as the right person. Why not reach out to players like Saqlain, Mushi, etc?
 
Gubol123 said:
I am sorry, that is really foolish of the franchise. If they want to build a brand, they need to get themselves associated with the right people. Somehow Ajmal doesn't come across as the right person. Why not reach out to players like Saqlain, Mushi, etc?
Click to expand...

Ajmal was previously a player for them so I guess they wanted to continue the association. Not sure about his coaching credentials but hopefully he has some.

Saqlain is with PZ.

I think Mushy is at the NCA full-time so not sure about his availability.
 
[MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION] your post above was good one. I myself was surprised when Afridi retired from Test Matches. I thought that by playing test matches his temperament would build to an extent. Specially in Asian conditions he would have been ideal second spinner .
 
Shadab the leg spinner is a wicket taking bowler whereas Hafeez the offspinner was primarily restricting the batsman for runs. Shadab's leg spin arsenal consists of legbreak, googly, and quicker versions of said deliveries. From what I've seen of him, that could get him, on average, at least 1-2 and 2-3 wickets in t20s and ODIs respectively. If he adds to his bowling arsenal (slower deliveries, flipper, etc.) then that 1-2 and 2-3 wickets could potentially turn to 2-3 and 4-5 wickets. Hafeez didn't add to his off spin arsenal (if he even could).

Shadab the batsman rotates the strike well, good boundary hitter (as shown in NZ) but as to what position would suit him, that I'm not sure. I wouldn't exactly call him a genuine power hitter but at the same time how high can he bat up the order? Need to see more of his style of batting in the future to 100% determine this.

Shadab's ceiling is much higher than Hafeez's, so to answer OP's question no I don't believe Shadab is at risk of becoming new Hafeez. If he does, then.. :69:
 
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