Can Babar Azam join the group of Fab 4 and make it a Fab 5?

[light]

So my dad earlier was talking about listening to a cricket analyst on a Pakistani channel saying Naseem isn't actually 16 and he's 18-19 and people should tone it down with the 16 talk.

Got me thinking about people on here who bring up Babar being younger than Kane, Kohli etc. What is Babar's actual age going around the Pakistani cricket cricles? It it actually legit or is it fudged like a lot of ages are for players from Asia. For all we know he could be the same age, if not older than those players making all the points of age difference mute.

I never understood the need for lowering a person's age in cricket. Why do it? What benifit do you get out of it? If anything, you start expiring when your official age hits around 30 ish but in reality you're 38 ish.

Topic related: soon, not there yet. Still have some work to do before he is included in the fab 5 category.

 

[BreadPakoda]

As mentioned by another poster previously, his 60 odd vs England on a difficult wicket which gave Pakistan a very healthy lead resulting in Pakistan winning the match. He was the joint second highest scorer for that match despite him being retired hurt on just 68 (highest score was 70). This shows how difficult the pitch was and how well he played on it.

Bro, totally understand - I rate Babar. But if you have followed the thread, I was just arguing with a particular poster on his logic.

 

[Slog]

I never understood the need for lowering a person's age in cricket. Why do it? What benifit do you get out of it? If anything, you start expiring when your official age hits around 30 ish but in reality you're 38 ish.

Topic related: soon, not there yet. Still have some work to do before he is included in the fab 5 category.

If you’re a slightly above average bowler but thought to be a teenager you’re considered an exciting prospect with potential to be world class because the assumption is that you get better and closer to your peak as you hit mid 20s.

If you’re at this same level as the player above but 27 years old then you’re considered at your peak and no one will hype you or pick you based on potential since assumption is that the older you are the closer you already are to your ceiling.

 

[light]

If you’re a slightly above average bowler but thought to be a teenager you’re considered an exciting prospect with potential to be world class because the assumption is that you get better and closer to your peak as you hit mid 20s.

If you’re at this same level as the player above but 27 years old then you’re considered at your peak and no one will hype you or pick you based on potential since assumption is that the older you are the closer you already are to your ceiling.

I would like your post for the clear explanation but there is no option for that, so thumps up to you good sir

 

[Mamoon]

You can say Rohit, Dhawan, Butler, Roy, Kohli, Warner, Gayle, tc. are better players than Babar, it's your opinion. But what you can't say is that those players have outperformed Babar, because they haven't - that's a fact. At the end of the day, to stay at the top, you need to be a consistent top performer, which is what Babar has been for a while now.

Babar has played too many soft T20s in the last 3 years unlike Kohli who is regularly rested in such matches. If Kohli, Rohit, Babar play in the same team, what are the odds of Babar outperforming them?

Like Pakistan’s T20 ranking, Babar’s T20 ranking is fake as well. He is top 5 but not the best by any means.

 

[Mamoon]

I am seriously starting to doubt if you do really understand anything
We were talking about the world cup. You said Kohli has 5 consecutive fifties to what I asked you if it is about quality or quantity. They were good innings but not impactful innings.
Why the hell do you bring the 70 hundreds in it? lol


Kohli is far far ahead to Babar as a batsman so far, and even Root, Williamson are far ahead. So don't include me in that list. I am shocked when I read "he is already better than Root". Babar is far behind Taylor, Warner Faf du Plesis.

But, on current form, only Steven Smith can claim to be better because he is that far ahead. Others, like Kohli are maybe at the same level but surely not ahead.

What is your point?

Kohli scored 80 and 77 against Australia and Pakistan after coming to the crease in the 25th over. Was that his fault?

Should he have told Rohit and Dhawan/Rahul to fail so that he can come to the crease early and play an “impactful” innings to win Mobashir’s approval on PP?

I have stated already. Kohli had an excellent World Cup but not to his normal standards. He is the best ODI batsman of all time and he should have done more.

Nevertheless, I am not sure what your point is. Let’s assume that Kohli was rubbish at the World Cup and didn’t have the caliber to play an impactful innings like the the GOAT Babar.

What are you implying?

1) Is Babar better at 25 than Kohli at 25?

2) is Babar a better pressure player?

3) Is Babar a more impactful match-winner?

4) Does Babar have better talent and better technique?

5) Will Babar end up as a better batsman and break Kohli’s records?

Which one is it. Please don’t beat around the bush anymore.

 

[ARK Rafay]

Babar has played too many soft T20s in the last 3 years unlike Kohli who is regularly rested in such matches. If Kohli, Rohit, Babar play in the same team, what are the odds of Babar outperforming them?

Like Pakistan’s T20 ranking, Babar’s T20 ranking is fake as well. He is top 5 but not the best by any means.

Babar opens in T20 and Kohli doesn't. They way Babar utilizes the power play there is as much chance of Babar outscoring Kohli in a match/tournament than Kohli has.

 

[Mamoon]

Babar opens in T20 and Kohli doesn't. They way Babar utilizes the power play there is as much chance of Babar outscoring Kohli in a match/tournament than Kohli has.

I also highlighted Rohit. His power game is at a completely different level to Babar’s.

Both Kohli and Rohit are better T20 batsmen than Babar.

 

[Captain caveman]

Babar needs to put some weight on and work out. His power game is non existent and he is exhausted after he scores his mandatory century.
Kohli was similar, then he went on his fittness and healthy eating liestyle.
Babar has to do the same, but dont give up meat, cos meat is delicious!

I think babar is better than kohli was at 25, because kohli couldnt play swing(i still dont think kohli can play swing, just the last england tour, the ball didnt swing that much due to the conditions).
Babar has to improve his game in tests, he cant just rely on off side drives, he needs to improve on his square drives and sweep shots. Alot of work to do, but he has the determination to succeed.


Rohit is as useless as warner when the ball swings an inch(lol)!
True definitions of flat track bullies!

 

[Captain caveman]

Babar needs to put some weight on and work out. His power game is non existent and he is exhausted after he scores his mandatory century.
Kohli was similar, then he went on his fittness and healthy eating liestyle.
Babar has to do the same, but dont give up meat, cos meat is delicious!

I think babar is better than kohli was at 25, because kohli couldnt play swing(i still dont think kohli can play swing, just the last england tour, the ball didnt swing that much due to the conditions).
Babar has to improve his game in tests, he cant just rely on off side drives, he needs to improve on his square drives and sweep shots. Alot of work to do, but he has the determination to succeed.


Rohit is as useless as warner when the ball swings an inch(lol)!
True definitions of flat track bullies!

Also, babar needs to learn how to pull and hook the ball.

 

[andy0204]

Babar needs to put some weight on and work out. His power game is non existent and he is exhausted after he scores his mandatory century.
Kohli was similar, then he went on his fittness and healthy eating liestyle.
Babar has to do the same, but dont give up meat, cos meat is delicious!

I think babar is better than kohli was at 25, because kohli couldnt play swing(i still dont think kohli can play swing, just the last england tour, the ball didnt swing that much due to the conditions).
Babar has to improve his game in tests, he cant just rely on off side drives, he needs to improve on his square drives and sweep shots. Alot of work to do, but he has the determination to succeed.


Rohit is as useless as warner when the ball swings an inch(lol)!
True definitions of flat track bullies!

What you are talking about? the ball swinged more than this year's Ashes.

 

[Captain caveman]

What you are talking about? the ball swinged more than this year's Ashes.

It didnt swing much in the india tour, i watched the series.
Watch england vs pakistan 2010, if you want to see real swing.

 

[andy0204]

It didnt swing much in the india tour, i watched the series.
Watch england vs pakistan 2010, if you want to see real swing.

If you want to watch real swing go and watch England vs newzealand 2013 it swinged more than Pakistan vs England and that series was during May where the ball swinged on to the next level but we are talking about England vs India series.

 

[Ab Fan]

That 110 ball 100 was Babar's first Aus tour and he was new to the side hence inexperienced and he was just 22. Also keep in mind that Pakistanis find it hard on aussie pitches so him scoring a hundred there in his first ODI tour in Aus was impressive despite Pakistan losing the game. You can't use that against him anymore. On the other hand, Kohli was 30 and very experienced when he scored those hundreds against SA.
You can't possible compare the 22 (or even the current babar) to the 30/31 Kohli. That's just an absurd comparison and there's no logic behind it.

I am not demeaning Babar's quality as a batsmen. It was a good inning given the context but at same age as Babar, Kohli already had played some terrific innings chasing down 330 or 350-360 at quite a few occasions as I already gave some examples. The point I mentioned was against the argument made by another poster that Babar plays opposition bowlers better than Kohli, Smith and Root.

Babar has a solid future but we should be a bit cautious when comparing him with Kohli, whose records, numbers and innings puts him as the one of the greatest ever.

 

[Ab Fan]

<B>Chasing on batting wickets is easier that's why India and other good team often decide to bowl first in those conditions.
You are more likely to score a hundred chasing 300 than when chasing 240.
So all this, hundreds while chasing that much is good for other posters, not for me.</B>



SA team was finished. Unfortunately he didn't do it when they were still a good side. I rate Kohli very highly, he is the best ODI batsman in the world from those still playing.It's just that you guys over rate him so much that you can't read the truth.
I have stated that Babar is better at playing and scoring against the best bowler in the world, and at least in the world cup he was the best in that aspect. But you guys can't take it.
In ODI's, no one in the history of the game has failed in big moments as many times as Kohli did. He is far behind ABDV and Ponting in ODI's and they are all far behind the king of ODI cricket. Whatever he does, even if he scores hundred ODI hundreds he will be no match for these cricketers because he just doesn't have the game for it.

Chasing on a batting wicket is easier, then please tell me some other great batsmen or even Babar who has chased down over 325 at least five times in international cricket by not just hitting hundreds but also taking their team to victory.

The bolded point you just mentioned is quite laughable. I repeat the previous question again, " Tell us through some of the quality hundreds that Babar scored where he chased down 300+ by scoring a hundred and winning his team the match as well". He has none. You leave aside Babar. Plz mention any other cricketer in history of ODI cricket, Ponting or de Villiers , who has done it throughout their career.

 

[Captain caveman]

If you want to watch real swing go and watch England vs newzealand 2013 it swinged more than Pakistan vs England and that series was during May where the ball swinged on to the next level but we are talking about England vs India series.

May to july the ball swings usually in england, if the weather is warm and the sky is overcast. Poor old SL got battered by the swing, but india who came after SL missed most of the swing conditions.

 

[Captain caveman]

What you are talking about? the ball swinged more than this year's Ashes.

The ball hasn't swung much these last few years due to the weather conditions in the latter halve of the english summer, thats why anderson has not been as prolific as usual(plus he is old now and gets injured more).

 

[Relic]

[MENTION=43051]Mobashir[/MENTION] Some of the posts you have posted on this thread are attracting a lot of posters for the wrong reasons and it's clear to see why. Your posts are comparing Babar to the likes of Kohli, Williamson, Smith etc. I've read your post where you said that you're not comparing babar with Kohli and that Kohli's miles ahead but your comparisons makes other PPers think that you are which results in pages of posts just being posted about your comments. Those comparisons can't be made because firstly because the three players mentioned above have a lot more experience in international cricket and have scored thousands of runs unlike Babar, who just started his international career 4 years ago. Secondly, their test records are exceptional and have played many tests to prove that they're at the top, again Babar hasn't played a lot of test matches nor has he scored a lot. You just can't compare Babar with the other top players yet. He's a potential "Fab 4" candidate but isn't one already.

You need to word your posts a bit more carefully as they're attracting a lot of attention for all the wrong reasons as mentioned above. Hence, the people who are making logical arguments are being undermined just because of your illogical posts.

 

[andy0204]

May to july the ball swings usually in england, if the weather is warm and the sky is overcast. Poor old SL got battered by the swing, but india who came after SL missed most of the swing conditions.

When did Srilanka toured England last year? it was Pakistan before India toured

 

[Relic]

[MENTION=43051]Mobashir[/MENTION] Some of the posts you have posted on this thread are attracting a lot of posters for the wrong reasons and it's clear to see why. Your posts are comparing Babar to the likes of Kohli, Williamson, Smith etc. I've read your post where you said that you're not comparing babar with Kohli and that Kohli's miles ahead but your comparisons makes other PPers think that you are which results in pages of posts just being posted about your comments. Those comparisons can't be made because firstly because the three players mentioned above have a lot more experience in international cricket and have scored thousands of runs unlike Babar, who just started his international career 4 years ago. Secondly, their test records are exceptional and have played many tests to prove that they're at the top, again Babar hasn't played a lot of test matches nor has he scored a lot. You just can't compare Babar with the other top players yet. He's a potential "Fab 4" candidate but isn't one already.

You need to word your posts a bit more carefully as they're attracting a lot of attention for all the wrong reasons as mentioned above. Hence, the people who are making logical arguments are being undermined just because of your illogical posts.

[MENTION=43051]Mobashir[/MENTION]
And before you say I'm a babar azam hater (lol) - I'm obviously not. I'm a big fan. I've even defended him on this thread alone multiple times. But your posts are making it harder for anyone to do that so please refrain from going OTT

 

[Captain caveman]

When did Srilanka toured England last year? it was Pakistan before India toured

My bad, i meant the tour before.

 

[Captain caveman]

Babar is good enough to be mention in the same breath as the fab four. You dont have to look at a players history to determine who the best players at the MOMENT are. As hogg said babar is in the top 3 batsman in the world right NOW.
smith, kohli then babar .

 

[Hyperion66]

[MENTION=43051]Mobashir[/MENTION] Some of the posts you have posted on this thread are attracting a lot of posters for the wrong reasons and it's clear to see why. Your posts are comparing Babar to the likes of Kohli, Williamson, Smith etc. I've read your post where you said that you're not comparing babar with Kohli and that Kohli's miles ahead but your comparisons makes other PPers think that you are which results in pages of posts just being posted about your comments. Those comparisons can't be made because firstly because the three players mentioned above have a lot more experience in international cricket and have scored thousands of runs unlike Babar, who just started his international career 4 years ago. Secondly, their test records are exceptional and have played many tests to prove that they're at the top, again Babar hasn't played a lot of test matches nor has he scored a lot. You just can't compare Babar with the other top players yet. He's a potential "Fab 4" candidate but isn't one already.

You need to word your posts a bit more carefully as they're attracting a lot of attention for all the wrong reasons as mentioned above. Hence, the people who are making logical arguments are being undermined just because of your illogical posts.

Couldn't have said any better myself.

 

[jeetu]

Babar needs to play bit more to be considered among modern great. He is halfway there already. He seems to have good head on his shoulder. Like all other batsman he will have bad series from time to time. Its upto PCB and fans to give him enough slack so he can reach his potential.

 

[Pakhs]

Fab 4 was always test based.

By who? Fab 4 was all format players. otherwise when Kholi and root joined the so called fab 4 likes of younis, Sachin, AB had better test records.

 

[tyron_woodley]

lol guys kohli is going to win the world cup in 2023. So all your thoughts about his ability will be subverted. Don't worry.

 

[Pakhs]

lol guys kohli is going to win the world cup in 2023. So all your thoughts about his ability will be subverted. Don't worry.

How do you know?

 

[Usman Chadda]

Babar needs to play bit more to be considered among modern great. He is halfway there already. He seems to have good head on his shoulder. Like all other batsman he will have bad series from time to time. Its upto PCB and fans to give him enough slack so he can reach his potential.

No, he is not half-way there yet. He has a lot of potential true, but no way should he be compared to established cricketers.

Although I did have a chuckle when someone in this thread rates Rohit Sharma for his test batting credentials

 

[Gilly]

Warner and Babar average the same in away matches.

 

[ikky47]

Warner and Babar average the same in away matches.

In which format?

 

[Abdullah719]

In which format?

Tests, both average 33ish. Though Babar is slightly higher...

Considering that Babar's played around 1/4th the number of Tests that Warner's played, I'd say that's pretty good! He should improve in the long run, whereas Warner probably won't.

 

[jeetu]

Warner has a poor away test record. Away average of less than 35 is pretty bad for a established opener.

 

[Mobashir]

I am seriously starting to doubt if you do really understand anything
We were talking about the world cup. You said Kohli has 5 consecutive fifties to what I asked you if it is about quality or quantity. They were good innings but not impactful innings.
Why the hell do you bring the 70 hundreds in it? lol


Kohli is far far ahead to Babar as a batsman so far, and even Root, Williamson are far ahead. So don't include me in that list. I am shocked when I read "he is already better than Root". Babar is far behind Taylor, Warner Faf du Plesis.

But, on current form, only Steven Smith can claim to be better because he is that far ahead. Others, like Kohli are maybe at the same level but surely not ahead.

Babar away performance 14 tests 27 nnings 813 runs 33.87 average. Freaking 813 runs

Kohli 692 runs in a single series vs Australia in Australia
593 runs in as ingle series vs England in England

For the record Pant averages more than Babar overseas. Even with a very small sample his record is very mediocre. Sorry mate your bizzarro theories to prove Babar is in the league of these 4 don't really land. There are so many batsmen in world cricket that are better than him. Pakstan has unearthed a consistent batsman after a long time. So i understand the hype. But this is over the top given the extremely small sample which is also poor sample.

My point of view is quite clear from the start but when you guys don't want to read I can't help you.

 

[Mobashir]

Babar has played too many soft T20s in the last 3 years unlike Kohli who is regularly rested in such matches. If Kohli, Rohit, Babar play in the same team, what are the odds of Babar outperforming them?

Like Pakistan’s T20 ranking, Babar’s T20 ranking is fake as well. He is top 5 but not the best by any means.

What were the not soft T20's in the last three years? So we can look up to them and see how Babar have done in them.

 

[Mobashir]

What is your point?

Kohli scored 80 and 77 against Australia and Pakistan after coming to the crease in the 25th over. Was that his fault?

Should he have told Rohit and Dhawan/Rahul to fail so that he can come to the crease early and play an “impactful” innings to win Mobashir’s approval on PP?

I have stated already. Kohli had an excellent World Cup but not to his normal standards. He is the best ODI batsman of all time and he should have done more.

Nevertheless, I am not sure what your point is. Let’s assume that Kohli was rubbish at the World Cup and didn’t have the caliber to play an impactful innings like the the GOAT Babar.

What are you implying?

1) Is Babar better at 25 than Kohli at 25?

2) is Babar a better pressure player?

3) Is Babar a more impactful match-winner?

4) Does Babar have better talent and better technique?

5) Will Babar end up as a better batsman and break Kohli’s records?

Which one is it. Please don’t beat around the bush anymore.

Not Kohli's fault maybe but Babar clearly had a better world cup.

I made a simple comment and I stand by it- on current form Babar is on par with Kohli. If it has made so many comments it's only because indians and you don't like when we say the truth about their favorites.

 

[Rellu_Katta]

there are not many batsmen better than Babar in LOI .... Kholi, Williamson come to mind.. Rohit Sharma is a big no for me ... proper FTB he is ...

Test, Can think of many ahead of babar... Smith, Kholi, Williamson, Latham, Stokes, Pujara, Elgar to name a few (Root def not on current form but overall yes)

Babr needs to score big hundreds ... his last 100 was good but a weak one... needs to go massive ....

 

[Mobashir]

I also highlighted Rohit. His power game is at a completely different level to Babar’s.

Both Kohli and Rohit are better T20 batsmen than Babar.

Bringing Rohit in this is a joke. Alotugh Rohit has a brilliant attacking game he also plays so slowly so many times at the start of the innings that he kills the innings.

For the record, Rohit, out of his 93 innings has scored less than 20 on 51 innings and his Strike rate in these particular innings is 95.
That's catastrophic.

 

[tyron_woodley]

Not Kohli's fault maybe but Babar clearly had a better world cup.

I made a simple comment and I stand by it- on current form Babar is on par with Kohli. If it has made so many comments it's only because indians and you don't like when we say the truth about their favorites.

current form in tests? no.
odi and t20 ? yes.

babar has time to improve but just because he is young doesn't mean he will peak later. Some guys peak early and stay the same. Some peak early and vanish. To constantly improve you need to work hard and perfect your craft. Babar is a humble hardworking man so I can see him in the future fab 4 for sure. Maybe he already is as good as Kane and root. Just needs to results to back it up a bit. I would certainly pick babar over both. He isn't quite there yet if you compare him to kohli and smith is just on another level. I am only talking about test cricket. I don't give a Damn about other useless formats like t20 because fodder trash players are made to look better than they are.
Odi is ok but it still doesn't offer a true test to measure the ability of a cricketer like tests.

World cup matters but test is still far more Important.

any team in the top 4 can just play 2 top notch games and win the cup. It's far harder to dominate a league based test series.

 

[Mobashir]

Chasing on a batting wicket is easier, then please tell me some other great batsmen or even Babar who has chased down over 325 at least five times in international cricket by not just hitting hundreds but also taking their team to victory.

The bolded point you just mentioned is quite laughable. I repeat the previous question again, " Tell us through some of the quality hundreds that Babar scored where he chased down 300+ by scoring a hundred and winning his team the match as well". He has none. You leave aside Babar. Plz mention any other cricketer in history of ODI cricket, Ponting or de Villiers , who has done it throughout their career.

Sorry but you need to understand stats better. You just can't take stats like that and try to compare things up. So many parameters come into it :
-quality of the team
-number of times someone has the opportunity to do it

You asking this for Ponting who batted in a complete different of ODI cricket shows that you don't understand stats.
But if you look at on overall stat of percentage of hundreds scored in the 2nd innings while chasing over 300 and let's say under 250 you clearly will see the difference.
Chasing a score 250 means you have less chance to score a hundred and if you are playing a quality team it also means the pitch was maybe more difficult hence less chance to score a hundred.

 

[Mobashir]

current form in tests? no.
odi and t20 ? yes.

babar has time to improve but just because he is young doesn't mean he will peak later. Some guys peak early and stay the same. Some peak early and vanish. To constantly improve you need to work hard and perfect your craft. Babar is a humble hardworking man so I can see him in the future fab 4 for sure. Maybe he already is as good as Kane and root. Just needs to results to back it up a bit. I would certainly pick babar over both. He isn't quite there yet if you compare him to kohli and smith is just on another level. I am only talking about test cricket. I don't give a Damn about other useless formats like t20 because fodder trash players are made to look better than they are.
Odi is ok but it still doesn't offer a true test to measure the ability of a cricketer like tests.

World cup matters but test is still far more Important.

any team in the top 4 can just play 2 top notch games and win the cup. It's far harder to dominate a league based test series.

Precisely what I mentioned in my first post about this before Babar's hundred at the Gabba. Even on current form Babar is behind Kohli in tests. And they are about on par in LOI's, tough I feel Babar is little better in T20's.

 

[Varun]

Precisely what I mentioned in my first post about this before Babar's hundred at the Gabba. Even on current form Babar is behind Kohli in tests. And they are about on par in LOI's, tough I feel Babar is little better in T20's.

You have no idea what you're talking about.

Talk about getting excited after one innings.

 

[tyron_woodley]

Precisely what I mentioned in my first post about this before Babar's hundred at the Gabba. Even on current form Babar is behind Kohli in tests. And they are about on par in LOI's, tough I feel Babar is little better in T20's.

maybe. In lOI and t20 I would say they are on par. Babar has no support whereas kohli has rohit dhawan etc in odi. That's something that needs to be factored in as well. Put babar in india and maybe he would have won the semi final for india.
I like kohli but he is a choker in odi. He is a test great for sure and that's what I really care about anyway.

Test cricket always reigns supreme. Test cricket is real cricket.

Babar just started so he has some catching up to do. Let's see how far babar can go. His recent 100 reminded me of kohli's in 2014. The year which kohli transcended to greatness.

 

[Relic]

You have no idea what you're talking about.

Talk about getting excited after one innings.

The ODI part at least is not as far-fetched as it sounds.
Both average 60+ in ODIs in 2019 with very similar strike rates (90+)
Keep in mind that he's talking about current form, he's not comparing the overall careers of the two.

 

[Ab Fan]

Sorry but you need to understand stats better. You just can't take stats like that and try to compare things up. So many parameters come into it :
-quality of the team
-number of times someone has the opportunity to do it

You asking this for Ponting who batted in a complete different of ODI cricket shows that you don't understand stats.
But if you look at on overall stat of percentage of hundreds scored in the 2nd innings while chasing over 300 and let's say under 250 you clearly will see the difference.
<B>Chasing a score 250 means you have less chance to score a hundred and if you are playing a quality team it also means the pitch was maybe more difficult hence less chance to score a hundred</B>.

Why are you going in circles? You didn't have any answer to my question. The simple question I asked is "Name some of chases of over 325 total for any particular batsmen in cricket history?" Now since you are talking of not getting more opportunities and different era, tell me some of the chases of 300+ total for Ponting's era. That's a balanced reference that I have set now. Kohli has chased down 330+ several times and at a fantastic strike rate, something which no cricketer has ever done consistently. That's what makes him one of the greatest ever and he has done it consistently, not just once or twice.

The three innings I mentioned for Kohli was played when he was under 25. Babar has zero successful chases against any attack, let alone quality one. The benchmark is simply far too higher for anyone, let alone Babar when we are comparing with Kohli.

 

[Mobashir]

Why are you going in circles? You didn't have any answer to my question. The simple question I asked is "Name some of chases of over 325 total for any particular batsmen in cricket history?" Now since you are talking of not getting more opportunities and different era, tell me some of the chases of 300+ total for Ponting's era. That's a balanced reference that I have set now. Kohli has chased down 330+ several times and at a fantastic strike rate, something which no cricketer has ever done consistently. That's what makes him one of the greatest ever and he has done it consistently, not just once or twice.

The three innings I mentioned for Kohli was played when he was under 25. Babar has zero successful chases against any attack, let alone quality one. The benchmark is simply far too higher for anyone, let alone Babar when we are comparing with Kohli.

You are maybe from the t20 generation and you like and rate these 350+ chases but I personally don't.
I rate Babar's hundred vs NZ world cup higher than any innings you mentioned.

Jadu's innings vs NZ is another example of what I call a great innings.

 

[silentkiller187]

Babar is on par with any batsmen in world cricket at the moment, forget about past records run rates averages bla bla bla, the fact of the matter is he is up there with Kohli, im not gonna go the extra mile and say he is better, kohli is definitely better but Babar can definitely hold his own in this top 4 fab 4 whatever you want to call it. You can mention worthless runs etc as much as you want but what is the man to do, if he fails against weak opposition he is ridiculed, if he makes a century every game again ridiculed and slated with comments like these runs are worthless bla bla, some posters need to take their tongue out of our neighbors ***** and appreciate what we have in our own country.

 

[Mesozoic]

Jeez. One innings in an innings defeat and people here are going bonkers.

If Kusal Perera was a Pakistani, he might have been called GOAT and better than Bradman, Viv, Sachin etc after the innings he played in South Africa.

 

[Varun]

Jeez. One innings in an innings defeat and people here are going bonkers.

If Kusal Perera was a Pakistani, he might have been called GOAT and better than Bradman, Viv, Sachin etc after the innings he played in South Africa.

Pakistani fans and the England media are birds of a feather.

Overhyping is their middle name.

 

[Mesozoic]

I can't really blame Pak fans for hyping him to the moon as after a long long time, they're getting to see a real good batsman playing in their colours.

You can hype him as much as want , but you can't degrade players like Kohli, Warner, Root etc , who've been there for years, in doing so.

 

[Mesozoic]

Pakistani fans and the England media are birds of a feather.

Overhyping is their middle name.

I still remember how much the likes of Umar Akmal and Shehzad were hyped over here.

Not wishing for it , but Pak fans should keep in mind how these two turned out for them.

 

[Varun]

I still remember how much the likes of Umar Akmal and Shehzad were hyped over here.

Not wishing for it , but Pak fans should keep in mind how these two turned out for them.

Overall, PP's eye for spotting batting talent is horrendous.

It's a boy-cried-wolf situation over and over again with every next Pakistani batsman, so colour me skeptical.

 

[Thulsa]

I can't really blame Pak fans for hyping him to the moon as after a long long time, they're getting to see a real good batsman playing in their colours.

You can hype him as much as want , but you can't degrade players like Kohli, Warner, Root etc , who've been there for years, in doing so.

Come back here in maybe 2 years and people will wonder what folks were smoking to make such a silly comparison- shades of Umar AKmal v Virat Kohli all over this.

If there is one thing that Pakistan is truly world class at, is at squandering talent - I suspect that will be Babar’s fate in the near future. Babar stands out because his counterparts in the Pakistan team are plebs of the highest order. It doesn’t make Babar comparable to his peers in other teams - and the mid 30 average reflects that.

 

[Abdullah719]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Nathan Lyon "Babar is one guy who can conquer all conditions around the world. He's got brilliant temperament. His hundred was an innings of class, we know he's world class and he's going to be one of the best batters in world cricket for a long time to come" <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/AUSvPAK?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#AUSvPAK</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Cricket?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Cricket</a></p>— Saj Sadiq (@Saj_PakPassion) <a href="https://twitter.com/Saj_PakPassion/status/1199234342481989632?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 26, 2019</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Relic]

Come back here in maybe 2 years and people will wonder what folks were smoking to make such a silly comparison- shades of Umar AKmal v Virat Kohli all over this.

If there is one thing that Pakistan is truly world class at, is at squandering talent - I suspect that will be Babar’s fate in the near future. Babar stands out because his counterparts in the Pakistan team are plebs of the highest order. It doesn’t make Babar comparable to his peers in other teams - and the mid 30 average reflects that.

What's with the obsession with his average??
His average was 20 and you lot used to the same thing and now his average is 36 and you lot are saying the same thing again. The fact is that his average is increasing rapidly as he has started to cross the 75+ runs mark. His average was 30 or something at the start of this year and now it's 36. Then it'll be 40 and then 45. Next thing you know, when he has an average of 45 you'll still criticise him by saying "only 45?? He should average 55+ like Kohli".

You're making it seem like he has been averaging 36 since forever. Lol

 

[Thulsa]

What's with the obsession with his average??
His average was 20 and you lot used to the same thing and now his average is 36 and you lot are saying the same thing again. The fact is that his average is increasing rapidly as he has started to cross the 75+ runs mark. His average was 30 or something at the start of this year and now it's 36. Then it'll be 40 and then 45. Next thing you know, when he has an average of 45 you'll still criticise him by saying "only 45?? He should average 55+ like Kohli".

You're making it seem like he has been averaging 36 since forever. Lol

The point is he hasn’t got enough miles under his belt yet - yes his average is moving in the right direction but it isn’t there yet - that’s the point. And to then make any insinuation that he is comparable to other batsman with vastly more games under their belts and still with a higher average is silly.

If he has a mid 40s average after playing 3x as many games - then yes he is certainly is a great trajectory. But it could also plummet as he gets found out.

The hallmark of a great batsman is not how pleasing their cover drive is on the eye or other flash in the pan nonsense - it’s the ability to change gears, adapt and evolve and yet remain prolific in scoring runs. The ‘Fab Four’ have, to varying degrees done this - Babar hasn’t. Babar will have every opportunity to show this in time - he just hasn’t done it yet.

Time will tell.

 

[jnaveen1980]

The point is he hasn’t got enough miles under his belt yet - yes his average is moving in the right direction but it isn’t there yet - that’s the point. And to then make any insinuation that he is comparable to other batsman with vastly more games under their belts and still with a higher average is silly.

If he has a mid 40s average after playing 3x as many games - then yes he is certainly is a great trajectory. But it could also plummet as he gets found out.

The hallmark of a great batsman is not how pleasing their cover drive is on the eye or other flash in the pan nonsense - it’s the ability to change gears, adapt and evolve and yet remain prolific in scoring runs. The ‘Fab Four’ have, to varying degrees done this - Babar hasn’t. Babar will have every opportunity to show this in time - he just hasn’t done it yet.

Time will tell.

Case in point KL Rahul who was averaging 46 after 19 tests. and now it has come down to 34. He made a century in his very second test at the SCG.

 

[Aman]

I never understood the need for lowering a person's age in cricket. Why do it? What benifit do you get out of it? If anything, you start expiring when your official age hits around 30 ish but in reality you're 38 ish.

Topic related: soon, not there yet. Still have some work to do before he is included in the fab 5 category.

It's only really good for grade cricket. Once you're at international level, it doesn't mean too much outside getting a longer rope.

 

[Buffet]

It's only really good for grade cricket. Once you're at international level, it doesn't mean too much outside getting a longer rope.

Amir was not tried as adult for his crime. That's off field benefit.

Longer rope is on field benefit.

Only loser is team here. You can't build a good team due to over hyping many players as young and talented. So many threads in PP about so and so is doing much better than ATG when they were around same age. End result is not haivng batsmen with 5k+ runs or pacers with 200+ wickets who debuted in last 15-20 years.

 

[Mamoon]

Bringing Rohit in this is a joke. Alotugh Rohit has a brilliant attacking game he also plays so slowly so many times at the start of the innings that he kills the innings.

For the record, Rohit, out of his 93 innings has scored less than 20 on 51 innings and his Strike rate in these particular innings is 95.
That's catastrophic.

Rohit is arguably the greatest Limited Overs opener ever. He is a giant of Limited Overs cricket.

If you have the option of having him in your ODI/T20 side and you opt for Babar, then you deserve to support a rubbish team like Pakistan.

As I said before, it is not possible to have a genuine discussion with you when it comes to Indian players because of your hilariously extreme bias.

 

[Mamoon]

Not Kohli's fault maybe but Babar clearly had a better world cup.

I made a simple comment and I stand by it- on current form Babar is on par with Kohli. If it has made so many comments it's only because indians and you don't like when we say the truth about their favorites.

So what do we do with this information and what conclusion do we draw here?

“Kohli is one of the greatest (if not the greatest) ODI batsman of all time and Babar will never be better than him. However, Babar’s innings against NZ in the World Cup was more impactful than any of Kohli’s innings”.

Is that it?

 

[Relic]

Rohit is arguably the greatest Limited Overs opener ever. He is a giant of Limited Overs cricket.

If you have the option of having him in your ODI/T20 side and you opt for Babar, then you deserve to support a rubbish team like Pakistan.

As I said before, it is not possible to have a genuine discussion with you when it comes to Indian players because of your hilariously extreme bias.

Lol.

Rohit sharma is a beast but only at home.
Away he averages 43 with a strike rate of 80.

 

[marlonbrowndo]

Rohit is arguably the greatest Limited Overs opener ever. He is a giant of Limited Overs cricket.

If you have the option of having him in your ODI/T20 side and you opt for Babar, then you deserve to support a rubbish team like Pakistan.

As I said before, it is not possible to have a genuine discussion with you when it comes to Indian players because of your hilariously extreme bias.

Put Rohit in a team like post 2010s Pakistan and see what he does. Put Babar in the Indian setup and see what he does

 

[Mamoon]

What were the not soft T20's in the last three years? So we can look up to them and see how Babar have done in them.

Every T20 that Pakistan after the WT20 2016 and before the 2019 World Cup was soft. T20 cricket at the international level was dead at that time because teams were focused on the ODI World Cup. That is why a poor side like Pakistan became the number 1 side.

Now that the World Cup is over and we have two World T20s in the next two years, teams will start to focus on T20 cricket and play their best players in most of the matches. Now it is time for Pakistan to struggle in the format and our decline has already started.

People will be quick to blame Misbah but this decline was inevitable going to happen under Sarfraz and Mickey as well. However, now people have an excuse because they cannot accept the reality. Anyway, Pakistan would have been thrashed by India in the 2016-2018 period as well.

It would have been an embarrassing reality check like the Asia Cup last year, when a Kohli-less India put the so-called Champions Trophy winners in their place in their adopted home.

As far as Babar is concerned, his ranking is inflated but as I said before, he is still a top player. There is no doubt he will continue to do well but he is not the best T20 batsman in the world by any means.

 

[Mamoon]

Put Rohit in a team like post 2010s Pakistan and see what he does. Put Babar in the Indian setup and see what he does

It is just an excuse. Rohit will accumulate runs in Pakistan but you won’t see Babar hitting double-hundreds for India. They are different players with different strengths, but Rohit’s strengths are out of this world. He is a better Limited Overs batsman than anyone except Kohli today.

 

[BreadPakoda]

Put Rohit in a team like post 2010s Pakistan and see what he does. Put Babar in the Indian setup and see what he does

Put Manish Pandey in a team like Pakistan which doesn't have more than 1 quality ODI batsman and see what he does.

 

[Mamoon]

Lol.

Rohit sharma is a beast but only at home.
Away he averages 43 with a strike rate of 80.

Pointless to use his stats from 2007-2012 when he was a struggling middle-order player and couldn’t even buy a run at home. Since transforming himself as an opener in 2013, he has averaged 55+ at a SR of almost 90 in away ODIs, and scored 648 runs in a World Cup in England.

 

[jnaveen1980]

At this point i would equate him with Amla in one dayers. In Tests he could get close to Amla.

 

[BreadPakoda]

Lol.

Rohit sharma is a beast but only at home.
Away he averages 43 with a strike rate of 80.

~4,000 runs with 63 @ 93 in last 5 years away from home. Same period Babar has 46 @ 85 which isn't bad at all but completely pales in comparison

 

[andy0204]

At this point i would equate him with Amla in one dayers. In Tests he could get close to Amla.

Amla scored daddy hundreds in India,England,Australia.
Comparison with rahane in tests will be ok as of now.

 

[BreadPakoda]

^ Forgot adding Zimbabwe and Ireland to Babar's stats. That improves it considerably to 49 @ 87 but still far behind Rohit

 

[jnaveen1980]

~4,000 runs with 63 @ 93 in last 5 years away from home. Same period Babar has 46 @ 85 which isn't bad at all but completely pales in comparison

Construction of their innings is different. Babar is more like a steady accumulator who goes hard in the power play and doesn't have the same power game outside power play. Rohit on the other hand goes slow upfront and explodes in the death overs which make him an impactful player. As long as Rohit is at the crease you are always in the game while chasing.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Amla scored daddy hundreds in India,England,Australia.
Comparison with rahane in tests will be ok as of now.

Yes that is what i meant by saying "Could get close". Babar doesn't have a great experience in scoring big 100s in domestic either. He has a 266 i see. Not sure if he has any. For one thing team management has to send him up the order. No.3 or No.4. Anything less would mean he won't be able to shape his career. He could end up grossly under-achieving. This is assumign he is maintaining his form.

 

[BreadPakoda]

Construction of their innings is different. Babar is more like a steady accumulator who goes hard in the power play and doesn't have the same power game outside power play. Rohit on the other hand goes slow upfront and explodes in the death overs which make him an impactful player. As long as Rohit is at the crease you are always in the game while chasing.

Agree. Rohit vs Babar in ODIs isn't even a valid comparison at the moment.

 

[Aman]

Agree. Rohit vs Babar in ODIs isn't even a valid comparison at the moment.

It will never be a comparison.

Rohit is a giant in ODI cricket.

 

[Ab Fan]

You are maybe from the t20 generation and you like and rate these 350+ chases but I personally don't.
I rate Babar's hundred vs NZ world cup higher than any innings you mentioned.

Jadu's innings vs NZ is another example of what I call a great innings.

Good enough for you. You can consider someone chasing down 250 as better inning than other guy chasing down 350 in ODI cricket, lol. That's good for you.

As for lower scores chases, I do rate some of them very highly as well. An example is below:-

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series.../england-vs-australia-5th-odi-aus-in-eng-2018

 

[Titan24]

It will never be a comparison.

Rohit is a giant in ODI cricket.

Rohit Sharma averaged 29 Odd at 25 years of age and in 2012 he averaged 12 in 14 matches.

Moral of the story; never say never.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Rohit Sharma averaged 29 Odd at 25 years of age and in 2012 he averaged 12 in 14 matches.

Moral of the story; never say never.

Only difference is Rohit was pushed to open in the one dayers. His career changed after he became an opener much like Sehwag's career changed. I am not sure Babar will open the innings being the best batsman in the side.

 

[Titan24]

Only difference is Rohit was pushed to open in the one dayers. His career changed after he became an opener much like Sehwag's career changed. I am not sure Babar will open the innings being the best batsman in the side.

Babar is already averaging 50+ at no 3, its not like he is averaging 28-29 so he is already settled and on his way to a great career. My reply was regarding the point that Rohit is a giant it will never be a comparison, as nobody would have predicted what Rohit would become what he is now as he was never an opener to start with.

Saying it will never be a comparison is just ignoring all the possibilities of Rohit himself is an example of.

 

[Dr_Bassim]

The comparison has switched from FAB 4 to Babar vs Rohit Sharma.

Anyways Babar is a good ODI batsmen but he will NEVER be able to score 250 odd runs once, let alone twice coming aa one down in his career.

Rohit is like Afridi, keeps you in the game while Babar would be like a consistent hard working batsmen.

 

[marlonbrowndo]

It is just an excuse. Rohit will accumulate runs in Pakistan but you won’t see Babar hitting double-hundreds for India. They are different players with different strengths, but Rohit’s strengths are out of this world. He is a better Limited Overs batsman than anyone except Kohli today.

It isn’t an excuse. A guy in his early 20s carrying a batting lineup is an achievement by itself. Like [MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION] said. He has never seen such a big gap between a country’s best batsman and it’s second best. Babar unfortunately can’t bat with the same mindset that the Indian batsmen can. That isn’t to say that Babar can make 200s or play freaky innings like Rohit does because he can’t. Rohit is among the top 3 ODI openers if not the best. But I just don’t think it’s right to compare Babar to Indian batsmen because unfortunately he is a part of an inferior system and more often than not will have to single handedly carry his batting lineup which is an achievement in and of itself.