Can Babar Azam join the group of Fab 4 and make it a Fab 5?

[Corridor of Uncertainty]

Babar has a long way to go in red ball cricket in my opinion. He has to sort out his game against spin, particularly in spin friendly conditions. Both mentally and technically.

In white ball, he is on his way to be amongst the greatest of all time, if not already - unless he loses form steeply.

 

[Unbiased-Fan]

All members of fab four are not only highly successful in test cricket but also has impressive ODI record..
Babar needs to boost his test average before considering him part of the elite group.
Before Babar there are likes of Rohit, Warner, Dekock who have more credentials than him..
So just lets wait

 

[shamaan]

All members of fab four are not only highly successful in test cricket but also has impressive ODI record..
Babar needs to boost his test average before considering him part of the elite group.
Before Babar there are likes of Rohit, Warner, Dekock who have more credentials than him..
So just lets wait ��

How does Dekock has more credentials than Babar???

 

[Hasan]

People do write some interesting analytical stuff based upon their arm chair experience! “Bab Azam is not in the Fab Four because his left nostril is not correctly aligned to his right elbow when facing leg spin on day two wicket”.

People know your limits and leave the expert analysis to the experts. Just enjoy the fact that Babar Azam is an exceptionally gifted player and we are lucky that he plays for Pakistan.

 

[Gilly]

The only place I hear any talk about the "Fab 4" is here on PP.

How important is it to have Babar in the "fab 4".

Have a poll and if the majority on PP think Babar should be included in the "fab 4" then induct him into the "fab 4".

 

[Charmander]

He will be the FAb 1. the other 4 are 5-6 years older than him and will most likely start to taper off in 2 years time, just when Babar will be in his absolute peak.

 

[Last Monetarist]

Sluggish innings today:

<div style="width: 100%; height: 0px; position: relative; padding-bottom: 56.250%;"><iframe src="https://streamable.com/e/25985e" frameborder="0" width="100%" height="100%" allowfullscreen style="width: 100%; height: 100%; position: absolute;"></iframe></div>

 

[Mobashir]

Most fifties in a single world cup equal with Kohli and Hayden.

 

[Last Monetarist]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Most 50+ scores in T20Is:<br><br>29 Virat Kohli (87 innings)<br>27 Rohit Sharma (107 innings)<br>25 Babar Azam (61 innings)<a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/T20WorldCup?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#T20WorldCup</a></p>— Saj Sadiq (@SajSadiqCricket) <a href="https://twitter.com/SajSadiqCricket/status/1457365324949606403?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 7, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[PakPremi]

The way he is going he will be heading the Fab 4 soon, only if Pak get to play lots of test like top 3 teams.

 

[MenInG]

Pakistan captain Babar Azam slammed his fourth half-century of the 2021 T20 World Cup during the game against Scotland, equalling the record for most 50+ scores by a batter in a single edition of the tournament. Babar reached his half-century in 40 deliveries in Sharjah.

Matthew Hayden had scored four half-centuries during the inaugural edition of the T20 World Cup in 2007, and Virat Kohli had repeated the feat in the 2014 edition of the tournament.

Babar has been on a stellar run in the T20 World Cup, having scored 264 runs in five innings at an impressive average of 66.

During his innings against Scotland, Babar held one end while Pakistan continued to lose wickets at the other, rotating the strike at a healthy rate and remaining undeterred with the dismissals.

The Pakistan captain eventually scored 66 off 47 deliveries in the game.

Most 50+ scores in a T20 WC:

Matthew Hayden (Australia) - 4
Virat Kohli (India) - 4
Babar Azam (Pakistan) - 4*

The Pakistan captain will play at least one more game in the current edition, as Pakistan has qualified for the semi-finals. The side is likely to play against Australia for a berth in the final of the 2021 T20 World Cup.

Pakistan were the first to qualify for the semis of the tournament, with England, Australia and New Zealand following the side as the remaining three sides in the final four.

The Babar Azam-led side has enjoyed an impressive campaign in the 2021 edition of the T20 World Cup so far. The side began its journey in the tournament with a 10-wicket victory over arch-rivals India, which seemingly set the tone for Pakistan's campaign as they are yet to concede a defeat so far.

https://www.hindustantimes.com/cric...n-a-single-t20-world-cup-101636302476839.html

 

[Bewal Express]

Babar is a top player and would walk into any team in the World. And although he has improved markedly, His issue is hitting 6 on slow wickets. Today if he hits another 2 sixes it becomes a good innings.

 

[Mobashir]

Babar is a top player and would walk into any team in the World. And although he has improved markedly, His issue is hitting 6 on slow wickets. Today if he hits another 2 sixes it becomes a good innings.

Not only walk in every team. He will be the best player in every T20 and ODI team.

 

[Zaz]

His consistency is remarkable Sets up the game nicely more or less every game for pakistan

 

[street cricketer]

Not only walk in every team. He will be the best player in every T20 and ODI team.

There's overrating and then there's what [MENTION=43051]Mobashir[/MENTION] does

 

[Mobashir]

There's overrating and then there's what [MENTION=43051]Mobashir[/MENTION] does

On current form he is by far the best ODI batsman, and on par with Jos as the best T20 batsman.

 

[street cricketer]

On current form he is by far the best ODI batsman, and on par with Jos as the best T20 batsman.

Your fan boyism of Pakistan cricket stops you from recognising the limitations of Babar as a batsman.

His USP is his supreme consistency and I would definitely have a batsman like him in the middle order of the Indian team to account for the collapses. I would have him instead of Morgan in the English team too. His consistency makes him a fail proof strategy for the most part while chasing moderate to above average totals.

His limitations are in his hitting ability however and the moment the target that needs to be chased becomes a high one, he starts becoming a bit of a liability. Might not happen this world cup because the par scores tend to be on the lower side in the UAE, but if Pakistan were to chase a total that's near 200, Babar's limitations while chasing high scores might start to arise.

English batsmen sacrifice their average for strike rate to play a high octane game and Jos Buttler, Johnny Bairstow and Jason Roy are prime examples of that. It of course has its own shortcomings where they could collapse on a sticky wicket when everyone plays with a high risk approach, but this approach has worked wonders for them, winning them the ODI world cup. And certainly if not this one, in the next WT20 in Australia where the surfaces tend to be flat, England would be the heavy favourites with their high octane approach. As such, you would much rather have a lot of English batsmen in your team before Babar unless the wicket is tacky and you need a batsman with good technique and consistency like Babar to provide anchor and avoid a collapse.

 

[Mobashir]

Your fan boyism of Pakistan cricket stops you from recognising the limitations of Babar as a batsman.

His USP is his supreme consistency and I would definitely have a batsman like him in the middle order of the Indian team to account for the collapses. I would have him instead of Morgan in the English team too. His consistency makes him a fail proof strategy for the most part while chasing moderate to above average totals.

His limitations are in his hitting ability however and the moment the target that needs to be chased becomes a high one, he starts becoming a bit of a liability. Might not happen this world cup because the par scores tend to be on the lower side in the UAE, but if Pakistan were to chase a total that's near 200, Babar's limitations while chasing high scores might start to arise.

English batsmen sacrifice their average for strike rate to play a high octane game and Jos Buttler, Johnny Bairstow and Jason Roy are prime examples of that. It of course has its own shortcomings where they could collapse on a sticky wicket when everyone plays with a high risk approach, but this approach has worked wonders for them, winning them the ODI world cup. And certainly if not this one, in the next WT20 in Australia where the surfaces tend to be flat, England would be the heavy favourites with their high octane approach. As such, you would much rather have a lot of English batsmen in your team before Babar unless the wicket is tacky and you need a batsman with good technique and consistency like Babar to provide anchor and avoid a collapse.

Altough I agree with you that the England approach in the best way to go to win that doesn't mean it's the only way. They have the players to do it, we don't and actually no other team have them. They still have room for someone like Malan in the team because you always need one player who plays a little longer.

In ODI's, there is no room for debate, he is the absolute best at the moment.

 

[mudassir84]

For your information babar scored 122 off 59 against South Africa recently to chase target above 200. He is the best at the moment.

 

[CricketZ]

For your information babar scored 122 off 59 against South Africa recently to chase target above 200. He is the best at the moment.

Against South African C team.

 

[Mobashir]

Against South African C team.

And against who did the other fab 4 player make their T20I hundreds?

 

[Varun]

He reminds me of Rahul Dravid. Albeit a more modern day version.

Very useful player.

 

[street cricketer]

Altough I agree with you that the England approach in the best way to go to win that doesn't mean it's the only way. They have the players to do it, we don't and actually no other team have them. They still have room for someone like Malan in the team because you always need one player who plays a little longer.

In ODI's, there is no room for debate, he is the absolute best at the moment.

Like I said, your bias for Pakistan cricket is stopping you from recognising Babar's limitations as a batsman.

How can Babar be the best batsman in the world when he becomes a liability the moment the target is 300 and above in an ODI.

Babar is what, 27 years now. He is in the prime of his career as a batsman and yet he doesn't have a single successful 300+ chase in his career. Babar is a great batsman to have when you have to chase anything less than 300 in ODIs. But the moment the target becomes a 300+ one, Babar becomes a liability in the team because even when he makes runs, he makes them at a maximum s/r of around 100, which is not good enough when you chase huge totals, especially if you eat a lot of balls to make a run a ball score.

I find your failure to recognise Babar's limitations ironic given that you were probably one of the strongest critics of Tendulkar because he wasn't supposedly attacking enough as a batsman compared to Lara. Yet Tendulkar had a lot of very good innings chasing 300 and above totals despite him playing a good 2 decades before Babar. I'm not even talking about the likes of Dhoni & Kohli here who basically made their names chasing 300+ totals. It's why I'll always select the likes of Buttler, Bairstow and Jason Roy before thinking about Babar in my team. Babar has his plus points, one of them being his supreme consistency, and it's why I consider him a rich man's Joe Root in LOIs. But there's a reason Root doesn't find a place in the English team despite having very good stats and that's because what's considered "good stats" has been changed by the mentality of the current English team in LOIs.

 

[Pakhs]

Like I said, your bias for Pakistan cricket is stopping you from recognising Babar's limitations as a batsman.

How can Babar be the best batsman in the world when he becomes a liability the moment the target is 300 and above in an ODI.

Babar is what, 27 years now. He is in the prime of his career as a batsman and yet he doesn't have a single successful 300+ chase in his career. Babar is a great batsman to have when you have to chase anything less than 300 in ODIs. But the moment the target becomes a 300+ one, Babar becomes a liability in the team because even when he makes runs, he makes them at a maximum s/r of around 100, which is not good enough when you chase huge totals, especially if you eat a lot of balls to make a run a ball score.

I find your failure to recognise Babar's limitations ironic given that you were probably one of the strongest critics of Tendulkar because he wasn't supposedly attacking enough as a batsman compared to Lara. Yet Tendulkar had a lot of very good innings chasing 300 and above totals despite him playing a good 2 decades before Babar. I'm not even talking about the likes of Dhoni & Kohli here who basically made their names chasing 300+ totals. It's why I'll always select the likes of Buttler, Bairstow and Jason Roy before thinking about Babar in my team. Babar has his plus points, one of them being his supreme consistency, and it's why I consider him a rich man's Joe Root in LOIs. But there's a reason Root doesn't find a place in the English team despite having very good stats and that's because what's considered "good stats" has been changed by the mentality of the current English team in LOIs.

Every players has a limitation? even in the current T20 WC he has played quickest than Williamson, smith and kohli at a higher average. None of the fab 4 currently can play like Butler due to their limitations.

on top of it all some of the top 4 has a history of chocking in high pressure knock out games such as virat who has continually failed in knock out games even in this WC in effectively a knock game against NZ got out to a slog going across the line.

 

[street cricketer]

Every players has a limitation? even in the current T20 WC he has played quickest than Williamson, smith and kohli at a higher average. None of the fab 4 currently can play like Butler due to their limitations.

on top of it all some of the top 4 has a history of chocking in high pressure knock out games such as virat who has continually failed in knock out games even in this WC in effectively a knock game against NZ got out to a slog going across the line.

Kohli has not choked in WT20s, check the previous records.

It's only in the ODI world cups where he has choked.

But I'm not even talking about the knockout matches here. That's a filter used to separate the great batsmen (who have great records in bilaterals) from the absolute GOATs (who have great records in bilaterals + great performances in WC knockouts) - for example, Viv has performances even in knockouts in ODI WCs while Kohli has failed time and again and even AB doesn't have a great record in WC knockouts despite his incredible record in bilaterals. It's why Viv is the GOAT ODI batsman in my book and not Tendulkar or Kohli or ABDV.

But before talking about the performances of players in world cup knockouts, they need to first have performance in bilateral matches and Babar struggles chasing high scores even in bilateral matches, and that's a huge limitation in a batsman's cv.

 

[Pakhs]

Kohli has not choked in WT20s, check the previous records.

It's only in the ODI world cups where he has choked.

But I'm not even talking about the knockout matches here. That's a filter used to separate the great batsmen (who have great records in bilaterals) from the absolute GOATs (who have great records in bilaterals + great performances in WC knockouts) - for example, Viv has performances even in knockouts in ODI WCs while Kohli has failed time and again and even AB doesn't have a great record in WC knockouts despite his incredible record in bilaterals. It's why Viv is the GOAT ODI batsman in my book and not Tendulkar or Kohli or ABDV.

But before talking about the performances of players in world cup knockouts, they need to first have performance in bilateral matches and Babar struggles chasing high scores even in bilateral matches, and that's a huge limitation in a batsman's cv.

Cricket has now changed massively and bilateral roles have diminished a lot due the various leagues going around the world. A decade ago bilateral series had big meaning so had a big weight in how players performed in this series such as Sachin era who has a great record in bilateral but not so great in knock our matches (still a good record).

But mostly Virat and now Babar are playing in an era where bilateral series don't matter as much. Even even then Babar has a great bilateral record and his so called weakness of not scoring at 150+ SR how many of the fab 4 can regularly score at 150 + SR? what is babar career SR compare to other fab 4? I mean Smith does not even deserve a spot in T20s tbh.

 

[mastimasti]

Talk of Babar not being an upper echelon batsman is ridiculous.

Since the start of WTC 2019, Babar has averaged 56 in 14 test matches, with 4 centuries and 7 50s, with 1100+ runs.

In that same period he has played 11 ODIs with an average of 77 and SR of 100+...those are phenomenal numbers. Add to that a T20 career in that period average 43 and striking at 132.

IF Babar is not upper echelon, no one is.

 

[street cricketer]

Cricket has now changed massively and bilateral roles have diminished a lot due the various leagues going around the world. A decade ago bilateral series had big meaning so had a big weight in how players performed in this series such as Sachin era who has a great record in bilateral but not so great in knock our matches (still a good record).

But mostly Virat and now Babar are playing in an era where bilateral series don't matter as much. Even even then Babar has a great bilateral record and his so called weakness of not scoring at 150+ SR how many of the fab 4 can regularly score at 150 + SR? what is babar career SR compare to other fab 4? I mean Smith does not even deserve a spot in T20s tbh.

We're confusing formats here. For example, I don't consider Smith even a very good player in T20s. Smith and Kane Williamson are not very different to Joe Root in T20s but they only play because Aus and NZ don't have the players Eng do, if they were English, they would've been dropped like Root. Babar is better than both in T20s. Virat has a flawless record in T20 internationals, basically a Viv like record in T20Is and it's for that reason, I consider him the GOAT batter in T20Is. Unlike ODIs where he has choked in WC knockouts, he has performed even in WT20 knockouts and has won player of the tournament award twice in his career.

Now coming to ODIs, I still consider Babat better than KW because KW lacks the gears that even Babar has. Smith is a better batsman in ODIs and even if he doesn't have the stats of Virat, he has performed in WC knockouts which makes him a very good batsman in ODIs. Babar however has great stats like Amla did in ODIs, but he doesn't have a single great performance while chasing a high total. It might not necessarily be in a winning cause. Tendulkar for example made 175 off 141 balls chasing 350 against Australia at Hyderabad 12 years ago, in a losing cause. That Babar doesn't have a single great performance, even in a losing cause, while chasing even a 300ish total (forget about 350 totals) in the year 2021 is a huge deficiency in a batsman's cv.

All great batsmen of the past had these performances, some very early in their careers like Kohli. I'm not asking Babar to have a strike rate of 150, which is frankly impossible. I'm just asking a single good performance while chasing a high target in ODIs. To be honest, 300 is not even a "high" target these days, but the fact that Babar still doesn't have an iconic innings while chasing 300 targets puts him behind in the list of batsmen in ODIs. He has his utility, in chasing 250-280 totals, but becomes a liability when the score is anything close to 300 or more.

 

[Pakhs]

We're confusing formats here. For example, I don't consider Smith even a very good player in T20s. Smith and Kane Williamson are not very different to Joe Root in T20s but they only play because Aus and NZ don't have the players Eng do, if they were English, they would've been dropped like Root. Babar is better than both in T20s. Virat has a flawless record in T20 internationals, basically a Viv like record in T20Is and it's for that reason, I consider him the GOAT batter in T20Is. Unlike ODIs where he has choked in WC knockouts, he has performed even in WT20 knockouts and has won player of the tournament award twice in his career.

Now coming to ODIs, I still consider Babat better than KW because KW lacks the gears that even Babar has. Smith is a better batsman in ODIs and even if he doesn't have the stats of Virat, he has performed in WC knockouts which makes him a very good batsman in ODIs. Babar however has great stats like Amla did in ODIs, but he doesn't have a single great performance while chasing a high total. It might not necessarily be in a winning cause. Tendulkar for example made 175 off 141 balls chasing 350 against Australia at Hyderabad 12 years ago, in a losing cause. That Babar doesn't have a single great performance, even in a losing cause, while chasing even a 300ish total (forget about 350 totals) in the year 2021 is a huge deficiency in a batsman's cv.

All great batsmen of the past had these performances, some very early in their careers like Kohli. I'm not asking Babar to have a strike rate of 150, which is frankly impossible. I'm just asking a single good performance while chasing a high target in ODIs. To be honest, 300 is not even a "high" target these days, but the fact that Babar still doesn't have an iconic innings while chasing 300 targets puts him behind in the list of batsmen in ODIs. He has his utility, in chasing 250-280 totals, but becomes a liability when the score is anything close to 300 or more.

You are wrong Babar recently scored 158 against England in England by out gunning all England power house batting line he had a higher SR than any other English batsmen who scored more than 50 in the game. Thats very similar to Sachin innings against poor SA bowling attack for Indian conditions.

Babar also scored 85 in the first T20 against England at a SR of 173. The only win in the tour. I ma not actually sure if Virat can do that too often either. Like I said scoring runs now a days for quality batsmen in Bilateral series are not so difficult due to flat wickets / 2 balls per innings and relatively low pressure matches.

The only thing Babar needs to do more often is score 100s in test matches and score in knock out games if his team reaches the knock out as you cant single handily get any team to knock out / wing tournaments. Virat has done it all and not an unknown quantity at all any more similar to all other members of the fab 4 but Babar can still get better.

So far the only things that maybe beyond Babar is to be as good as Smith in test match who is on another level than anybody else when it comes to tests. Virat actually a great players in test match crickets but not among the true greats. Virat is more of a GUN / greatest bilateral 50 over format players similar to Amla who both scored loads of runs in 50 over bilateral format without actually contributing in ICC tournaments.

 

[Mobashir]

We're confusing formats here. For example, I don't consider Smith even a very good player in T20s. Smith and Kane Williamson are not very different to Joe Root in T20s but they only play because Aus and NZ don't have the players Eng do, if they were English, they would've been dropped like Root. Babar is better than both in T20s. Virat has a flawless record in T20 internationals, basically a Viv like record in T20Is and it's for that reason, I consider him the GOAT batter in T20Is. Unlike ODIs where he has choked in WC knockouts, he has performed even in WT20 knockouts and has won player of the tournament award twice in his career.

Now coming to ODIs, I still consider Babat better than KW because KW lacks the gears that even Babar has. Smith is a better batsman in ODIs and even if he doesn't have the stats of Virat, he has performed in WC knockouts which makes him a very good batsman in ODIs. Babar however has great stats like Amla did in ODIs, but he doesn't have a single great performance while chasing a high total. It might not necessarily be in a winning cause. Tendulkar for example made 175 off 141 balls chasing 350 against Australia at Hyderabad 12 years ago, in a losing cause. That Babar doesn't have a single great performance, even in a losing cause, while chasing even a 300ish total (forget about 350 totals) in the year 2021 is a huge deficiency in a batsman's cv.

All great batsmen of the past had these performances, some very early in their careers like Kohli. I'm not asking Babar to have a strike rate of 150, which is frankly impossible. I'm just asking a single good performance while chasing a high target in ODIs. To be honest, 300 is not even a "high" target these days, but the fact that Babar still doesn't have an iconic innings while chasing 300 targets puts him behind in the list of batsmen in ODIs. He has his utility, in chasing 250-280 totals, but becomes a liability when the score is anything close to 300 or more.

Your 300 chase blabla total is complete rubbish.

I can say the same about having at least one clutch world cup innings. Babar has already got one, Smith has, Root has it, Williamson also and about every great of the game has it.
Kohli can't be considered a great because he hasn't got a clutch world cup innings.

You are doing your best to try to downplay Babar, but that will not change the fact that currently he is the best ODI batsman of the world. Him being number 1 in ranking is just one thing that prove it. He simply bats as the best. His recent 150+ Vs England, in England was a sight to watch.
Unfortunately for him there isn't enough ODI'S played these days, when he is at his peak. That makes his odi record a little lesser than what it would have been.

 

[pillionrider]

Your 300 chase blabla total is complete rubbish.

I can say the same about having at least one clutch world cup innings. Babar has already got one, Smith has, Root has it, Williamson also and about every great of the game has it.
Kohli can't be considered a great because he hasn't got a clutch world cup innings.

You are doing your best to try to downplay Babar, but that will not change the fact that currently he is the best ODI batsman of the world. Him being number 1 in ranking is just one thing that prove it. He simply bats as the best. His recent 150+ Vs England, in England was a sight to watch.
Unfortunately for him there isn't enough ODI'S played these days, when he is at his peak. That makes his odi record a little lesser than what it would have been.

It's nice that you're waving your flag with such gusto. Maybe you can petition commentators and sports writers around the world to create a new Fab 5 with Babar in it, cuz right now, I'm not hearing it anywhere.

 

[street cricketer]

You are wrong Babar recently scored 158 against England in England by out gunning all England power house batting line he had a higher SR than any other English batsmen who scored more than 50 in the game. Thats very similar to Sachin innings against poor SA bowling attack for Indian conditions.

Babar also scored 85 in the first T20 against England at a SR of 173. The only win in the tour. I ma not actually sure if Virat can do that too often either. Like I said scoring runs now a days for quality batsmen in Bilateral series are not so difficult due to flat wickets / 2 balls per innings and relatively low pressure matches.

The only thing Babar needs to do more often is score 100s in test matches and score in knock out games if his team reaches the knock out as you cant single handily get any team to knock out / wing tournaments. Virat has done it all and not an unknown quantity at all any more similar to all other members of the fab 4 but Babar can still get better.

So far the only things that maybe beyond Babar is to be as good as Smith in test match who is on another level than anybody else when it comes to tests. Virat actually a great players in test match crickets but not among the true greats. Virat is more of a GUN / greatest bilateral 50 over format players similar to Amla who both scored loads of runs in 50 over bilateral format without actually contributing in ICC tournaments.

That 158 knock was against a third string English bowling line up given the entire England first XI plus their reserves were out of contention because of a covid breach in their bubble. You only prove my point. Btw I was talking about chases anyway.

Kohli is much different to Amla. Kohli has a gun bilateral record and has a decent performance in the group stage of world cups. Its only in the knockouts in the ODI WCs where he has choked.

Amla basically is a bilateral bully and he has a poor performance even in the group stages of the WC.

 

[IMMY69]

I think it's pretty obvious that Babar is the best batsman in the world.
Those arguing otherwise are just blinded by nationalism.

 

[Mobashir]

It's nice that you're waving your flag with such gusto. Maybe you can petition commentators and sports writers around the world to create a new Fab 5 with Babar in it, cuz right now, I'm not hearing it anywhere.

Actually I have no interest about "fab four" or Babar being in the "fab five". If you red my post from the start of the post I have never talked about that.

The thread really started when 2 years ago I said that on current form Babar is at par with Kohli and all Indian fans felt insulted.
2 years on, I was proved 100% right and now Babar is number 1 in both rankings ODI'S and T20's. And over the past 2 years ahead of Kohli in every format.

The only problem is that Indian fans digest it.

By the way, when was the last time you heard "fab 4" on TV? That doesn't exist anymore.

 

[street cricketer]

Your 300 chase blabla total is complete rubbish.

I can say the same about having at least one clutch world cup innings. Babar has already got one, Smith has, Root has it, Williamson also and about every great of the game has it.
Kohli can't be considered a great because he hasn't got a clutch world cup innings.

You are doing your best to try to downplay Babar, but that will not change the fact that currently he is the best ODI batsman of the world. Him being number 1 in ranking is just one thing that prove it. He simply bats as the best. His recent 150+ Vs England, in England was a sight to watch.
Unfortunately for him there isn't enough ODI'S played these days, when he is at his peak. That makes his odi record a little lesser than what it would have been.

What is this "clutch" world cup inning you talk about Babar having. Please don't tell me chasing 230 in an ODI is "clutch". That wouldn't be considered clutch even in the 1990s.

I'm not trying to downplay Babar. It's a huge limitation, which you fail to recognise. How can a batsman be considered the best batsman in the world when he's basically useless whenever the opposition puts up a good total.

You're just doing whataboutery by creating a false equivalence between Virat's failures in knockout games in WC and Babar's limitations as a batter. A player gets very few knockout games in his entire playing career in the world cup. The world cup comes every 4 years and if you assume a player has a 16 year career, you get 4 world cups within that span. And it's not a given his team will make the knockouts every time. Even with an optimistic estimate, a player will get maximum of 4-6 WC knockout games in his career if he's lucky. However, a player will get to play a lot of games chasing a high target in bilateral matches and the fact is, Babar has zero decent performances while chasing whenever the opposition makes anything of a good total.

Sure Babar is the best batsman in the world in all the ODIs where 230-280 runs are scored by a team, but anything more than that, you need players like Roy, Bairstow or Buttler in your team.

 

[Mobashir]

What is this "clutch" world cup inning you talk about Babar having. Please don't tell me chasing 230 in an ODI is "clutch". That wouldn't be considered clutch even in the 1990s.

I'm not trying to downplay Babar. It's a huge limitation, which you fail to recognise. How can a batsman be considered the best batsman in the world when he's basically useless whenever the opposition puts up a good total.

You're just doing whataboutery by creating a false equivalence between Virat's failures in knockout games in WC and Babar's limitations as a batter. A player gets very few knockout games in his entire playing career in the world cup. The world cup comes every 4 years and if you assume a player has a 16 year career, you get 4 world cups within that span. And it's not a given his team will make the knockouts every time. Even with an optimistic estimate, a player will get maximum of 4-6 WC knockout games in his career if he's lucky. However, a player will get to play a lot of games chasing a high target in bilateral matches and the fact is, Babar has zero decent performances while chasing whenever the opposition makes anything of a good total.

Sure Babar is the best batsman in the world in all the ODIs where 230-280 runs are scored by a team, but anything more than that, you need players like Roy, Bairstow or Buttler in your team.

Your don't understand cricket at all. Ben Stokes 84 off 94 balls in the final chasing 241 is one of the top knock in recent history.

He scored 99 off 52 balls chain 337 in India but in comparison it was a nothing innings.
Clutch innings is in not so easy conditions to bat, good bowlers.

 

[street cricketer]

Your don't understand cricket at all. Ben Stokes 84 off 94 balls in the final chasing 241 is one of the top knock in recent history.

He scored 99 off 52 balls chain 337 in India but in comparison it was a nothing innings.
Clutch innings is in not so easy conditions to bat, good bowlers.

Lol yeah compare the WC final to a random group stage match and claim people don't know cricket.

 

[Mobashir]

Lol yeah compare the WC final to a random group stage match and claim people don't know cricket.

Just telling you that you can play a great innings chasing less than 250.
Babar's innings vs NZ is an atg great innings. Batting on that pitch was a really really hard. A bowling attack of Boult, Southee, Fergie and Santner.

You should have known the value of these chase in the semi final.
It's harder to score a hundred in these 240 runs chases than in 300+, as very often if there are 300+ runs it often means it's a batting track.

 

[Pakhs]

What is this "clutch" world cup inning you talk about Babar having. Please don't tell me chasing 230 in an ODI is "clutch". That wouldn't be considered clutch even in the 1990s.

I'm not trying to downplay Babar. It's a huge limitation, which you fail to recognise. How can a batsman be considered the best batsman in the world when he's basically useless whenever the opposition puts up a good total.

You're just doing whataboutery by creating a false equivalence between Virat's failures in knockout games in WC and Babar's limitations as a batter. A player gets very few knockout games in his entire playing career in the world cup. The world cup comes every 4 years and if you assume a player has a 16 year career, you get 4 world cups within that span. And it's not a given his team will make the knockouts every time. Even with an optimistic estimate, a player will get maximum of 4-6 WC knockout games in his career if he's lucky. However, a player will get to play a lot of games chasing a high target in bilateral matches and the fact is, Babar has zero decent performances while chasing whenever the opposition makes anything of a good total.

Sure Babar is the best batsman in the world in all the ODIs where 230-280 runs are scored by a team, but anything more than that, you need players like Roy, Bairstow or Buttler in your team.

Lol yeah compare the WC final to a random group stage match and claim people don't know cricket.

It was still a fair English bowling attack on their home conditions not much different to SA with no quality spin bowler in Indian conditions. The point is he has played many inning in bilateral which are similar to others in fab 4 and one innings or two is bilateral chasing will not make no difference to what we already know about Babar.

Now Stokes has more clutch knocks than Virat will ever have or most in fab 4 plus Babar combined. The guy is the best allrounder in terms of impact since Imran. He is not as talented as say Kallis but in terms of playing clutch knocks and performing when it matters he is best since Imran.

 

[Unbiased-Fan]

Babar is already better limited overs batsman than Root, Smith, Williamson..
He needs to improve his test credentials to be part of the fabulous four

 

[street cricketer]

Just telling you that you can play a great innings chasing less than 250.
Babar's innings vs NZ is an atg great innings. Batting on that pitch was a really really hard. A bowling attack of Boult, Southee, Fergie and Santner.

You should have known the value of these chase in the semi final.
It's harder to score a hundred in these 240 runs chases than in 300+, as very often if there are 300+ runs it often means it's a batting track.

Perhaps if we keep repeating a 230 chase was an ATG innings, people might latch on to the novel idea.

However an ATG innings means there should be some extraordinary circumstances like Gibbs knock chasing 430 odd vs Australia or even Stokes because it came in a word cup final while wickets were falling at the other end. A 230 odd chase in a world cup group game is anything but an atg innings. I've never seen this knock being hyped up by anyone other than Pak fans, and tbf even among the Pak fans, it's only you honestly.

 

[shamaan]

Like I said, your bias for Pakistan cricket is stopping you from recognising Babar's limitations as a batsman.

How can Babar be the best batsman in the world when he becomes a liability the moment the target is 300 and above in an ODI.

Babar is what, 27 years now. He is in the prime of his career as a batsman and yet he doesn't have a single successful 300+ chase in his career. Babar is a great batsman to have when you have to chase anything less than 300 in ODIs. But the moment the target becomes a 300+ one, Babar becomes a liability in the team because even when he makes runs, he makes them at a maximum s/r of around 100, which is not good enough when you chase huge totals, especially if you eat a lot of balls to make a run a ball score.

I find your failure to recognise Babar's limitations ironic given that you were probably one of the strongest critics of Tendulkar because he wasn't supposedly attacking enough as a batsman compared to Lara. Yet Tendulkar had a lot of very good innings chasing 300 and above totals despite him playing a good 2 decades before Babar. I'm not even talking about the likes of Dhoni & Kohli here who basically made their names chasing 300+ totals. It's why I'll always select the likes of Buttler, Bairstow and Jason Roy before thinking about Babar in my team. Babar has his plus points, one of them being his supreme consistency, and it's why I consider him a rich man's Joe Root in LOIs. But there's a reason Root doesn't find a place in the English team despite having very good stats and that's because what's considered "good stats" has been changed by the mentality of the current English team in LOIs.

When was the last time Pakistan conceded 300 in a odi ?.
Virat doesn't strike above 100 in any country barring Bangladesh the reason why they get 300 scores is due to the strong opening pair.

Joe Root doesn't find a place in odis but malan does in t20s and in these conditions espically.

 

[street cricketer]

A 39 of 34 balls knock at a s/r of 114 yesterday. I kept highlighting Babar's limitations in accelerating but [MENTION=43051]Mobashir[/MENTION] will argue here that Babar is a better batsman than Kohli ever was. People think I'm a hater but I have no reservations in appreciating Pakistani players, despite what happened yesterday I've been repeatedly saying here before and I still believe that Shaheen is a Wasim level talent. But some Pakistanis for some reason get touchy when Babar's limitations with the bat are critiqued. Indian fans scritinise their players far more severely in Indian forums, so I don't see what's the problem.

 

[Mobashir]

A 39 of 34 balls knock at a s/r of 114 yesterday. I kept highlighting Babar's limitations in accelerating but [MENTION=43051]Mobashir[/MENTION] will argue here that Babar is a better batsman than Kohli ever was. People think I'm a hater but I have no reservations in appreciating Pakistani players, despite what happened yesterday I've been repeatedly saying here before and I still believe that Shaheen is a Wasim level talent. But some Pakistanis for some reason get touchy when Babar's limitations with the bat are critiqued. Indian fans scritinise their players far more severely in Indian forums, so I don't see what's the problem.

Babar has a lot of limitations as a batsman but who hasn't?
With his limitations he is the top scorer in his first world cup and his SR is 126.25.
Now compare this to Kohli, Smith, Williamson in the same world cup and you will see. The only page you find Kohli's name in this world cup is Indian Squad!

Virat Kohli's overall World cup SR is 129.6. And you think he has no limitations?
Playing in the same world cup in UAE his SR is 100, and the only time his SR was over 130 in a World cup was the one played in India because the pitches are much better.

Babar is struggling to consistantly hit the spinners and the medium pacers (bowlers around 130kph) and that's one of his limitations. But the way he plays the top fast bowlers of the world is unmatched.
He toyed with them in 2019 world cup and here, even if the sample is a lot lesser, he has shown how easely he plays the likes of Bumrah, Shami, Starc, Hazlewood and Cummins.
No one from the fab 4 play them as well as he does.

I don't know if he is the best T20 batsman in the world because it depends of what you are more in the format. But one thing is sure, currently Babar's batting is at another level to Smith, Williamson and Kohli in T20's. They are no match for him.

 

[street cricketer]

Babar has a lot of limitations as a batsman but who hasn't?
With his limitations he is the top scorer in his first world cup and his SR is 126.25.
Now compare this to Kohli, Smith, Williamson in the same world cup and you will see. The only page you find Kohli's name in this world cup is Indian Squad!

Virat Kohli's overall World cup SR is 129.6. And you think he has no limitations?
Playing in the same world cup in UAE his SR is 100, and the only time his SR was over 130 in a World cup was the one played in India because the pitches are much better.

Babar is struggling to consistantly hit the spinners and the medium pacers (bowlers around 130kph) and that's one of his limitations. But the way he plays the top fast bowlers of the world is unmatched.
He toyed with them in 2019 world cup and here, even if the sample is a lot lesser, he has shown how easely he plays the likes of Bumrah, Shami, Starc, Hazlewood and Cummins.
No one from the fab 4 play them as well as he does.

I don't know if he is the best T20 batsman in the world because it depends of what you are more in the format. But one thing is sure, currently Babar's batting is at another level to Smith, Williamson and Kohli in T20's. They are no match for him.

Kohli is literally finished as a player, good job comparing him with Babar at his peak. Smith is just terrible in T20 cricket, he has never been good in the format while Williamson is a very average player in T20s too. Babar definitely has his plus points in that he brings the runs which are useful on surfaces like we had in this UAE world cup, but I think Buttler is far and away the best player in T20 cricket and it's a huge credit to him that he bossed the tournament even on unsuitable surfaces for his style of play. Markram had a great tournament too. Babar is obviously better in ODIs, but I think Rizwan might be a better player than Babar in T20 cricket.

 

[shamaan]

A 39 of 34 balls knock at a s/r of 114 yesterday. I kept highlighting Babar's limitations in accelerating but [MENTION=43051]Mobashir[/MENTION] will argue here that Babar is a better batsman than Kohli ever was. People think I'm a hater but I have no reservations in appreciating Pakistani players, despite what happened yesterday I've been repeatedly saying here before and I still believe that Shaheen is a Wasim level talent. But some Pakistanis for some reason get touchy when Babar's limitations with the bat are critiqued. Indian fans scritinise their players far more severely in Indian forums, so I don't see what's the problem.

Babar prefers pace on the ball rather than spin.

 

[MenInG]

Wasim Akram in a recent interview:

"He came through the proper ranks, I have worked with him in Karachi Kings as well from last three years. I love his work ethic, he is focused and he’s never satisfied with his performance and that’s a sign of a good leader. I knew at the time, with this boy, with his work ethic, with his talent, he will definitely perform and be consistent"

"And now he’s the part of Fab four. [Virat] Kohli, [David] Warner, [Joe] Root and Babar is now getting high on top. Kohli is up there with Babar"

"You see if you talk about Pakistan batting, you start with Zaheer Abbas, Javed Miandad, Saleem Malik, Inzamam-Ul-Haq, Younis Khan, Mohammad Yousaf and then now it’s Babar Azam. The 21st century belongs to Babar Azam, he’s the man. And he’s still got plenty in him"

 

[Cover Drive Six]

With 6 runs in Today's match
Steve Smith's Overall Intl Batting Average Dropped Below 50

Highest Batting Average in Intl

54.96 - Virat Kohli
49.96 - Steve Smith*
49.49 - Joe Root
49.10 - Jacques Kallis

 

[Mobashir]

What we had to read from page to from some indians and mamoon!!!!

 

[Adeel Naseem]

He is no doubt

 

[Major]

Yup he has entered in the fab 4 or 5. This innings has proved it

 

[Buffet]

A very long way to go to join that rank.

He has grand total of 1 test ton when playing away so far. Once that number goes to 8-10 then he enters into the conversation. Also, he is not exactly the same generation.

 

[Mobashir]

A very long way to go to join that rank.

He has grand total of 1 test ton when playing away so far. Once that number goes to 8-10 then he enters into the conversation. Also, he is not exactly the same generation.

Agree about the same generation. Because on current form, apart from root, the others will love to be batting like Babar.

 

[as-95]

Ofcourse he is in the Fab 4. On current form, only Root is comparable in tests but Babar leads the back in ODIs...

 

[Pakhs]

A very long way to go to join that rank.

He has grand total of 1 test ton when playing away so far. Once that number goes to 8-10 then he enters into the conversation. Also, he is not exactly the same generation.

Virat and Williamson are showing signs of decline. Root and Smith probably have another 3 years at best. Babar cant enter into the previous FAB 4 as he is not the same generation. So this conversation is not valid regardless of Babars form

 

[Ab Fan]

All formats :

1. Kohli
2. Smith
3. Root/Williamson

Tests :

1. Smith
2. Root
3. Kohli
4. Williamson

Kohli will always be No.1 in all formats. Babar is from different era so not fair to include him in this unless he had debuted at 18-19 and was sitting at over 6000 test runs like Tendulkar at age of 25.

 

[Mobashir]

All formats :

1. Kohli
2. Smith
3. Root/Williamson

Tests :

1. Smith
2. Root
3. Kohli
4. Williamson

Kohli will always be No.1 in all formats. Babar is from different era so not fair to include him in this unless he had debuted at 18-19 and was sitting at over 6000 test runs like Tendulkar at age of 25.

To put an under 50 averaging batsman over a 60+ averaging batsman in test cricket is pure madness.

Ad to that Kohli is a choker even in ODI's where as Smith is clutch and there is no discussion possible.

 

[Ab Fan]

<B>To put an under 50 averaging batsman over a 60+ averaging batsman in test cricket is pure madness.</B>

Ad to that Kohli is a choker even in ODI's where as Smith is clutch and there is no discussion possible.

Where did you see this? Smith is at no.1 in tests.

Again wrong, Kohli is one of a GoAT LOI batsman while Smith is just a decent LOI batsman. Honestly, how can you even compare a guy with 12000 ODI runs at 59 average and 93 S/R to 4000 ODI runs at 43 average and 88 S/R?? That's not even in same ballpark lol.. Kohli is like three times the LOI batsman that Smith is.

Smith in LOIs is even inferior to the likes of Shikhar Dhawan, let alone a comparison with Kohli.In LOIs, the order is Kohli >>>> Root = Williamson (Williamson got more clutch knocks across ICC tournaments and LOI knockout formats)> Smith.

There are atleast 15 players in last decade that are better than Steve Smith. Guys like Faf, Warner, Dhawan, Finch, Qdk are all better than Smith in limited overs.

 

[Mobashir]

Where did you see this? Smith is at no.1 in tests.

Again wrong, Kohli is one of a GoAT LOI batsman while Smith is just a decent LOI batsman. Honestly, how can you even compare a guy with 12000 ODI runs at 59 average and 93 S/R to 4000 ODI runs at 43 average and 88 S/R?? That's not even in same ballpark lol.. Kohli is like three times the LOI batsman that Smith is.

Smith in LOIs is even inferior to the likes of Shikhar Dhawan, let alone a comparison with Kohli.In LOIs, the order is Kohli >>>> Root = Williamson (Williamson got more clutch knocks across ICC tournaments and LOI knockout formats)> Smith.

There are atleast 15 players in last decade that are better than Steve Smith. Guys like Faf, Warner, Dhawan, Finch, Qdk are all better than Smith in limited overs.

Overall, Smith is a better batsman than Kohli. No doubt about this.

Kohli is a limited batsman who very rarely does well against good bowlers or in clutch situations.

 

[Ab Fan]

Overall, Smith is a better batsman than Kohli. No doubt about this.

Kohli is a limited batsman who very rarely does well against good bowlers or in clutch situations.

Pretty insightful thought this. A guy with 70 international hundreds is limited.

 

[Kroll]

Overall Babar is below a notch on these guys peaks. But, apart from Root, not hearing much from the other guys.

If Babar keeps working hard, could potentially be up there on his own. I don’t think he’s reached his ceiling yet.

 

[JaDed]

Overall, Smith is a better batsman than Kohli. No doubt about this.

Kohli is a limited batsman who very rarely does well against good bowlers or in clutch situations.

In that logic Pant is better than most due to clutch innings.

Which is Babar’s clutch innings in your opinion that Kohli doesn’t have?

 

[heddie19]

Facing 424 balls and scoring daddy hundred in the 4th innings.

 

[shamaan]

In that logic Pant is better than most due to clutch innings.

Which is Babar’s clutch innings in your opinion that Kohli doesn’t have?

Babar has a long way to go but he's going in the right direction.

 

[James]

<b>‘His track record still isn’t good in SENA nations’: ex BCCI selector claims that Babar Azam still not part of Fab Four</b>

<I>With his masterclass knock of 196 runs in the second Test against Australia, in Karachi, that helped Pakistan draw the match, Babar reignited the Fab Four debate</I>

Pakistan captain Babar Azam has long been knock on the door to make his way into the Fab Four which is presently said to comprise Virat Kohli, Joe Root, Kane Williamson and Steve Smith.

And with his masterclass knock of 196 runs in the second Test against the no.1 ranked Test team, Australia, in Karachi, that helped Pakistan draw the match, Babar reignited the debate and former BCCI selector Saba Karim gave his verdict on the matter.

A valiant and a sensational 196 by Babar, which now is the highest fourth-innings score by a Test captain, helped Pakistan bounce back from a colossal target to draw the game and subsequently force a decider.

The knock received accolades all around the globe leaving fans questioning about Babar's place in the Fab Four.

So has he finally made the elite club?

Well, Saba still wants to wait a few more innings before coming to a conclusion, but admitted that Babar has shown signs of struggle in SENA countries.

"I still feel when Babar faces challenging conditions, when Pakistan travels to SENA (South Africa, England, New Zealand, Australia) countries, his track record, especially in Test matches has not been as good as the subcontinent. I will wait for some more time before adding him to the Fab Four," he said on India News.

As per Babar's record in SENA countries, he owns an average of 39.30 in 14 Tests, scoring 809 runs.

He however has an impressive record in England, where he scored 263 runs in his last visit to the country, averaging 65.75.

Saba was effusive in his praise for Babar's latest knock.

"If we see otherwise, he is technically very sound, he is a fantastic player, he is a match-winner, bats with responsibility. That is why I feel he can definitely make an entry into the Fab Four but [only] once he consistently starts scoring runs in these countries.

"It was an amazing knock and it was even more important because Pakistan were bowled out for just 148 runs in the first innings. So they were trying to save the match here and they could have even won the match if they had time. Considering that, it was a huge knock," he added.

https://www.hindustantimes.com/cric...ill-not-part-of-fab-four-101647584356038.html

 

[light]

Bigger question to come is if Virat is part fab 4 with his current form for the last two years ... Should not be in the team, let alone be part of fab 4

 

[Joseph Gomes]

Bigger question to come is if Virat is part fab 4 with his current form for the last two years ... Should not be in the team, let alone be part of fab 4

Fab 4 has nothing to do with form. Martin Crowe named the term for 4 of the best young batsmen from the same generation, in early 2010s. And Fab 4 have been the best in test since then. Babar is not from the same generation, so he can't be part of it.

Babar isn't even on the level of Warner and Pujara yet, he should try to surpass them first. Pujara averaged 50 after 70 tests before his decline

 

[Saj]

Steve Smith "That was an exceptional innings by Babar Azam in the fourth innings and breaking records. I thought he played remarkably well and he played our spinners so well. Everything just seemed to hit the middle of his bat until the one he got out on"

 

[MenInG]

Cummins notes major similarity between Kohli, Babar, Root, and Williamson

“All know their game incredibly well, They are never flustered, happy to bat long periods of time. If there is an opportunity, they get off the mark pretty quickly, start accumulating the runs really quickly,” Cummins said, as quoted by PTI during an interaction with reporters ahead of the third and final Test against Pakistan.

“Unless you are right on the money from the first ball you feel like they are already into their innings,” Cummins further added.

When asked to compare Kohli and Babar, Cummins said, "They are both really complete batters no matter what format you play, they present their challenges."

"They are both really high quality (players), both have scored centuries against Australia over the years."

https://www.hindustantimes.com/cric...root-and-kane-williamson-101647777580960.html

 

[Maher96]

Babar Azam on Australia's tour of Pakistan:

Tests:
36 (82)
36 (79)
196 (425)
67 (131)
55 (104)

ODIs:
57 (72)
114 (83)
105* (115)

T20I:
66 (46)

 

[iniqbal223]

For that to happen he needs to perform against top teams outside subcontinent in difficult situation
Even Rohit Sharma is not in Fab 4 who has played more match winning innings

 

[Mobashir]

For that to happen he needs to perform against top teams outside subcontinent in difficult situation
Even Rohit Sharma is not in Fab 4 who has played more match winning innings

"even" Rohit Sharma lol
Babar is already better than Sharma in every format of the game. There is no comparison between the two.

Babar surely has to do more, and it will come the more he plays these 3 test match series.

 

[gazza619]

There is only a fab 1 in world cricket at the moment, and thats Babar Azam!